mark: is this one a game changer? you betcha. mark: on the show tonight, four guests. but first, she is back. sarah palin endorsing donald trump at a rally in iowa. that is bad news for ted cruz, who wrote on twitter that he loved sarah palin.

when asked on cnn if her support for donald trump would be a blow to ted cruz's campaign. >> i think it would be a blow to sarah palin. sadly she would be endorsing someone who has held progressive views all their life, he supported the tarp bailout, and it goes on and on. i think if it was sarah palin, let me just say i would be deeply disappointed. mark: irresistible, must-see tv, but it doesn't actually matter. >> it does, donald trump is way ahead. he will dominate today because of this and he will dominate tomorrow. sarah palin has been following among conservative women,

conservative grassroots, i think this is all good for donald trump regarding winning the nomination. john: it was asked whether her endorsement would help in the 2014 senate race. she was way upside down in the general election. allow me to finish my argument and you might find i'm actually agreeing with you. she is still popular among a small core of people you are talking about.

i don't think it hurts donald trump at all. as long as he is dominating media, it is a win for him. i don't think she will persuade a single voter who was not already in the donald trump camp to vote for him. mark: she will help a turnout and help with people trying to decide between cruz and trump. she will get attention. she can draw many people and it's not the same as getting voters to the polls. she will help with voter turnout and persuasion because she is a big star with a big following and she is close to ted cruz. the symbolism of her choosing trump. john: if i were going to turn it around and ask, does it hurt ted cruz -- mark: the fight between trump and cruz has been heating up in the last few days. he has called cruise a nasty guy who no one likes. >> when you talk about temperament, ted has a rough

temperament. i don't know. you cannot call people liars on the senate floor when they are your leader. it's not a good thing to do if you want to curry favor and get the positive votes later. people are talking about his temperament. i have not talked about his temperament, but he needs to be careful because his temperament has been questioned a lot. mark: so cruz had his turn, and he knocked the time thattrump spends on social media. today he kept piling it on, including now bringing up the topic of trump's support for government bailouts. >> i disagree with him.

we should have no bailouts of wall street banks. mr. trump enthusiastically supported president obama's stimulus plan and set the only problem was, i don't think you can have a massive payoff to lobbyists. if you want to turn around the debt, you have to demonstrate that you are willing to stand up to that cronyism. mark: things continue to escalate between these two. what are the implications of the escalating conflict? john: i think this is all bad for ted cruz. every argument that ted cruz is making is an argument that has already been made. he's introducing no information into the conversation. all of these have bounced off donald trump in the past. i think he is a strong debater but i don't find him made

particularly effective attack dog. mark: here is the potential difference. no one has ever attacked donald trump on these matters from a stronger position of strength as cruz. he is high in the polls. he is number two in iowa. maybe someone with his standing can do it. john: you are correct, but that is a different circumstance. i just don't think that on the basis of everything we have seen in the past year that there are very many donald trump supporters that are moved by those arguments. mark: our next topic, trump fighting with cruz will dominate the news. he thinks eventually, one-on-one, he can beat donald

trump. john: we will get a caught up on some polls including numbers from florida, georgia, south carolina, and new hampshire. it's the same dominant story we've heard all throughout the campaign which is that donald trump rules. but when it comes to the other candidates, two of the polls stood out to us. poll number one up in new hampshire, a group called american research group shows john has 20% of the new hampshire vote. the rest of his establishment towels are 10 points behind him. in south carolina, a poll by the augusta chronicle, jeff bush suddenly has risen up to third place, 13%. he's up 6% from previous polls and is now ahead of his archrival, marco rubio. bush fought back against the

notion he is an establishment politician, winning out with his record as the former governor of florida. >> if you want to talk about reality, i didn't go out there just to be part of the establishment. the labels are all fine, but the reality is i have a proven record of disrupting things and i will do the same in washington. mark: we are just about to get on a plane and head to new hampshire and we will see all four of those guys up there. who among the established

republicans is playing the hardest hand right now? mark: today i think it's john kasich and bush. bush is rising nationally and some other states. both bush and casing having the ability i think to search at the end in new hampshire, whereas christie had a great moment and did not surge as much and rubio has never searched in new hampshire. john: on this issue, i think you are right. i think it points to the topsy-turvy world of established republican politics. tomorrow we could be on the show saying chris christie and marco rubio or playing the hot hands. mark: the problem of getting a sustained hot hand is donald trump and cruz are so dominant for news coverage, and it's hard

to get hot if the country isn't in watching you through the eyes of the national media. john: they can beat each other up like crazy but if they finish one and two in iowa, that story will have all our attention and the oxygen for those other guys to try to get on a roll just does not exist. mark: john kasich seems to have risen in new hampshire and he has not been getting much coverage lately. up next, big news out of new hampshire with hillary clinton's closing argument, and later conversation with clinton crusader david brock. we will be right back. ♪

mark: a new cnn poll shows bernie sanders with the mammoth lead in new hampshire. easily the largest lead he has had and it will be interesting to see the effect it has. in reaction to bernie sanders momentum, hillary clinton's campaign has been pumping out and ever-changing stream of negative items and storylines to stop the momentum. among other things, being too far to the left on health care, naïve on foreign policy, vague on spending, and much much more. john, in the wake of hillary clinton being behind in new hampshire by either a little or a lot, and even in iowa, i think it's fair to say. when the music -- when the music

stops, what is her closing argument going to be? john: the single most profound and telling thing i can say is i have no idea where she is going to land. that is a bad position to be in. we then consistent about the candidates in both parties. mark: bernie sanders, whose message has been the same every day. john: the ones who have played all sides of every issue are in trouble now. she is indiscriminately flailing. mark: i think that argument she wants to make his i'm more electable and i would be a better president. i think she would like to think that is enough to get elected and when the nomination, but it is also the case that she tried that for a while and now she has switched to these other things. i hear from clinton loyalist all

the time that they think right now she is flailing and making arguments that don't make sense. john: all of this feel so much like 2008 all over again. this is exactly what happened in 2008. indiscriminate, negative flailing. totally nuts. we talked about what would happen to the political universe if bernie sanders would pull off the upset my in iowa and new hampshire. he has enjoyed over to in some national polls. he had an impressive gathering at a martin luther king rally in birmingham, alabama, yesterday. it's got us thinking, so now the general consensus has been that if sanders loses in both iowa and new hampshire -- do you think it's still true? let's say clinton does somehow pull off a victory in iowa and new hampshire.

mark: in the wake of the new hampshire poll, the expectation game is going crazy now. i think -- i thought sanders was dead unless he exceeded expectations in both. based on had negative this has become an somewhat personal, i think he will fight on with a fair amount of money and the ability to win states down the road and accumulate delegates. john: given what the expectations now are, if she were somehow able to pull off the victory in iowa and new hampshire, if she pulls off those two victories, i think he will be effectively done. he will not be able to be the democratic nominee. he would soldier on and continue to make his argument for months to come, and he would caucus in

other places and gather some delegates. mark: as governors give their annual state of the state this month, one of them is getting a much closer look than the others and he is not even a presidential candidate. tonight rick snyder is likely to address his states water crisis. thousands of people including children have consumed water that has been contaminated with lead since april 2014. it was not until january 5 of this year that governor snyder declared a state of emergency. because the city is largely african-american, there are other issues at play that have gotten attention. both hillary clinton and bernie sanders address nighter in the democratic national debate. both marco rubio and donald trump have been asked about the issue this week and they dodged

the matter. will what is going on in flint affect the presidential race? john: it will be a talking point for sure. democrats will say it's another example of republicans who don't believe in government, and being callous to minority communities. it will be a talking point. i don't believe nine or 10 months from now that this issue will be a salient voting issue for most americans in the general election. mark: i think it's still playing out and the danger for everyone in government is this is an outrage that will get a lot of attention and bring more discontent with government. i think it will help populist. in a democrat would be smart to

really shine a light there. and it would be the right thing to do because the people of flint deserve national attention from people in both parties because they were ill-served by the government at every level. john: this will have some resonance. we have such a short attention span in this country, it's hard to imagine we will still be talking about this in october of this year. when we come back, can ted cruz possible pack help carry him to victory in iowa? after this. ♪

mark: everyone here talking about the need to take on washington. the natural next question is who

has actually done so? >> sticks to his guns. mark: that ad is part of a multimillion dollar effort, super pac called keep the promise one. who to talk about that is the president of that super pac. madam president, welcome. you are friends with sarah palin, donald trump, and ted cruz. >> that is all true. i'm proud to be in all of their orbits. each of them adds tremendously to this national conversation we are having. i think any conservative running for president would want to have

the endorsement of the governor. kellyanne: what he has said in his own words, he has supported certain positions in the past that would be seen as unorthodox. a couple of things, she has a relationship with donald trump. they are generally friends. she sees him i would imagine as an outsider, much as she saw herself, someone who is not always treated nicely by the establishment. there will be a lot of the women on the left snarking about her, rolling their eyes about her. there are people that don't like the fact that she did not go to ivy league schools, she is not one of them. but also she is a mother of five who lost all her baby weight.

there's a lot of reasons to be jealous of sarah palin. john: so when rick tyler goes on television to say this will hurt her credibility, you disagree with that? kellyanne: i disagree with that. what he was trying to express is that this is a mismatch on policy and ideology, but it does make sense if you think about it. maybe she had her eye on the presidential campaign herself, but if sarah palin supports candidate she feels a right for that has been very consistent over a number of years. john: so the gloves are off they are whacking each other left and right. there could not be a clearer signal that it's time for you

all to start going after donald trump. when do you plan to do that? kellyanne: we started on sunday. on sunday morning donald trump went on the sunday shows in said ted cruz is nasty, no one likes him, he has no friends. so we asked the question, who likes ted cruz? donald trump and envoys from february 2014 introduced senator cruz an event in florida where he went on and on about why people call him controversy or, he is gutsy, he's a special guy. mark: have you produced any ads in the negative on donald trump? kellyanne: all of them are factually accurate. mark: you are poised to run ads against donald trump, just looking at his record, is that correct? kellyanne: we're going to make sure that voters are not

confused. there have been so many slings and arrows in the direction of ted cruz lately. they spent hundreds of thousands of dollars and he does not believe that all of us should pay for the federal subsidies. another super pac went after him. mark: but you are ready to run at scrutinizing donald trump's record? kellyanne: we are ready to run ads against anyone who is in the way of ted cruz. john: those ads are locked and loaded and ready to launch and we will see them on the air soon? kellyanne: we have released two in a row that show senator rubio, one with him being more interested in fantasy football than his role in the senate, and the other one showing senator rubio --

mark: it seems to be a two-person race and iowa. kellyanne: marco rubio sees himself as competitive. we take them very seriously. mark: who is the favorite to be the nominee? kellyanne: donald trump and ted cruz. mark: thank you, and we will have you back. remember if you're watching us in washington dc, you can now listen to us on bloomberg 99.1. take us with you in your car. we will be right back. ♪

john: when we need to check our facts, sometimes we go to our crack researchers or the internet or sometimes to an encyclopedia. our guest is david brock.

i'm reading politico on january 16 that said you were planning an attack calling on bernie sanders to release medical records before the iowa caucuses. you said not true. david: this is the first interview on actually giving on this, so let's go through it. i was prepared to bring that up in a couple of interviews over the weekend in trials to. i was prepared to bring that up. john: so the politico story is correct? david: yes. john: john podesta said you need

to chill out and not do it. so your reaction is, you stand down? david: i thought it was kind of an amusing tweet. it was already done in the sense that i didn't have to do anything. john: i know you guys don't try to maintain the fiction that you don't coordinate with the campaign. are you effectively an arm of the campaign? david: we can coordinate. it doesn't mean everything we say and do is coordinated. mark: if you do something and get slapped down by john podesta, some people will look at that and say it's kind of a fake good cop-bad cop thing. are you as the campaign responsible for it? david: i don't think so. it was amusing, but it was a disavowal of what i said. i don't want to get into what i do and don't check. john: why not? david: i said in my statement that the clinton campaign had nothing to do with it.

mark: we were talking earlier about the clinton operation, like every day with a new frame. what is your view of the effective way to stop bernie sanders's momentum? what message should the clinton operation use now to stop his momentum, which he clearly has? david: you talked about electability. i think that's the answer. the elephant in the room is bernie sanders is not electable in the democratic party. he is not electable in the general election, and that is because of the elephant in the room. he is a socialist, whose health care plan is really a tax plan. he has been a democrat for five minutes. john: do you consider yourself a socialist? david: no. he is not a democrat. he has a 30 year history of

associating with some wackadoodle things about what the republicans will do with the fact he is a socialist in the fall. karl rove was on the air. basically what is going on here is, this is part of the republican effort. john kasich let the cat out of the bag at the debate. that's the truth. i believe that. hillary clinton has been under withering assault. she has stood up, she is resilient, for two years. the numbers will go down. john: he is not hiding the fact that he is socialist. david: he changed his affiliation and he has been a democrat for five seconds. john: he wants to destroy the health care plan that

generations of democrats have tried to pass. john: he doesn't deny that he is a democratic socialist. he says it at every turn. he doesn't hide it. david: he has a reputation in the senate as a ted cruz like character who'd doesn't get anything done. john: right now in iowa, he is leading hillary clinton by a large margin with independent voters. how do you explain that? david: the republicans haven't unleashed a negative attack on him. his numbers are inflated. i think in the next period here,

that is going to happen. we saw it in the debates. i don't think he will stand up to real scrutiny. mark: is hillary clinton in danger of losing both iowa and new hampshire? david: it is a volatile, close race. mark: in 2008, secretary clinton and those around her were frustrated with what they felt was unequal treatment regarding the president's coverage of her versus barack obama. is sanders getting more favorable coverage than her? david: i think so. mark: you think a lot about him defending clinton's and how easy or tough it is?

is there something about him that next putting a negative frame on him difficult? david: he has succeeded at painting himself as something like pure, noble, fresh revolutionary. my view is what we saw on the stage sunday night was politics as usual. john: since we have affirmed that politico was right, is bernie sanders's age and issue in this election, and should it be? david: not per se, no. john: is his health and issue? david: it could be. it is usual for all candidates in the presidential race. they said they were going to do it. mark: what did goldman sachs get for paying hillary clinton to do all the speeches, and why did they do it? what do you think they got for

their money? david: i don't think they got anything. i think she is compelling. mark: what is the path to stop bernie sanders's momentum? david: i think electability. the clinton campaign had some ads of the week ago. let's look beyond iowa and new hampshire. let's not forget you will have real rank-and-file democrats, not the independent, and at the polls showing more socialist than capitalist in iowa. mark: we love when you come in because we love how spirited you are. john: do you have any reason to think bernie sanders is not physically fit to be president of the united states? david: no, i do not. it's not a physical fitness test.

john: david brock, thanks for coming in. coming up, robert gates, after this. ♪

john: there is watergate, the famous gate around the white house, and of course there is robert gates, former secretary of defense and the author of this, his new book, his third book. "a passion for leadership, lessons on change and reform from 50 years of public service."

here in the studio with us is secretary gates. thanks for coming in. let's talk about leadership. how did you learn to become a leader? robert: i was in boy scout troop 522 in wichita, kansas. there's nothing better to teach leadership skills than trying to get a bunch of 12- and 13-year-olds, to get them to do something they don't want to do and you are only a year older than they are. i learned a lot. and i actually attended a national junior leadership training program in new mexico. that was the last formal leadership or management training i ever had. john: this morning i talked to

you about president obama and ask you the quality you most admire president obama. he said he was willing to make tough decisions. in your tenure in the obama administration, was it -- what did you take away from that stretch of public service? robert: were the most important lessons that came home to me was the importance not just of being able to make a tough decision or make a decision and to identify a vision or a goal, but then the importance of developing a strategy and then paying attention to implementation, or in the business world, execution. i think a good example of shortcomings and lessons learned in that first was the cairo speech in the spring of 2009 where he outlined a great vision toward the middle east and created a great deal of excitement has or in the middle east. but then there was no follow-up. there was no specific policies to execute the vision that he had set for.

the other was not in my bailiwick, and that was the problems associated with the rollout of the affordable care act website. the obamacare website where it really was a disaster, because i think they had fallen down on execution of the plan. mark: if you were writing a report about donald j trump and you were writing the positive portion, here is why donald trump is a great leader, what would be in that report? robert: i think he clearly speaks his mind and is very clear about what he think. he has obviously been successful in the business world. i think the report would have to include canned the skills that helped him be successful in the business world be successful in the world of politics and government?

mark: and how would you determine that if you were a voter? robert: my own view is that it is very tough for somebody who has had no experience in government to come in and try and figure out how to run a government where you really can't give orders. you can give them, but nobody really has to obey you. harry truman once said eisenhower will be terribly disappointed when he became president if he gave an order and nothing happened. you really have to persuade people to come over to your side and do the things you want to do. i'm not sure that's one of his strengths. john: there is a lot of fear in the country because of san bernardino and paris and these other things. one of the things this president has tried to do is keep people calm. other people criticized him for not being in touch enough with the fears in the country. if you look at the candidates on the issue of fear, terrorism, and what is going on abroad, is there a particular candidate

exercising leadership in terms of how they talked about the issue? robert: one of my concerns about the campaign, particularly on national security issues, the candidates as best i can tell have pretty much all come in at the 40,000 foot level. they make grandiose promises or commitments to do this or that, and i have not seen any of chapter 2 -- how are you going to do that? what are your specific ideas on how you are going to do that? when they have put forward specific ideas, whether it's carpet bombing or making the sand low or something, it's completely unrealistic. mark: does good leadership ever require yelling at the people who work for you? robert: i don't think so. people say that is stylistic, but i think you can be the toughest, most demanding boss on

the planet and still treat people with respect and dignity. mark: as best we can tell, you have done that throughout your career. the book is a passion for leadership, lessons on change and reform on 50 years of public service. amazing public service for which the country is grateful. thanks for coming in. of next we switch years. ♪

john: i next guest is a staff writer for the new yorker and thank you for joining us. this book has a lot of kochs in it. your argument in this history is that they are the center of a powerful syndicate. i don't want to be too precise on the language. jane: this is a history that shows you they have been building something for 40 years. is not just suddenly now. they have been working on a machine that's pushing the republican party far to the right. it describes the back story to this whole thing. we have something that is akin to like their own oligarchy party. john: given what has happened to the republican party and the establishment, is it true now that the koch network is as powerful or more powerful than the republican party itself?

jane: on their payroll is 3.5 times as many as the republican committee. the budget they have planned for 2016 is twice what the republican national committee spent in the 2012 campaign. it is a big operation. there is a new paper out, a professor at harvard put out last week. it's called the koch effect. it describes that they've created something on the size of a national political party that acts like a huge magnet. they got so much money, it's a force field pulling the republican party to the right. john: in the last 25 years, is the degree of darkness and

secrecy about the money spent any different in terms of its secretiveness or the impact on labor unions? jane: labor unions spend yes. labor unions represent many people. what's interesting about this group, if you look at the koch network in particular, it's about 450 people. so it's a tight group. it's very intensely concentrated money. from what was known as the guest list, i tried to add have many billionaires were involved in just the first term of obama's presidency. i got to 19 billionaires whose net worth was $214 billion. that's a lot of concentrated well in one very small group that is very well organized and

that is very well organized and coordinated. mark: how do you compare them to george soros and others in terms of secretiveness? jane: stier was the biggest campaign contributor in 2012 and soros has kind of backed off of campaign spending. as a whole, soros is spending less. the democrats have their own donor club and its budget, i think i read most recently for this campaign cycle is $40 million. the budget for the koch network is $889 million. something changed in 2010. they don't want to alienate people. what happened was super wealthy donors took the spot of becoming the power in the party. john: the subtitle talks about the rise of the radical right. the radical right is kind of a blanket term.

it's interesting to me that the koch have as much power that they haves. but they are not interested at all in those issues, a lot of what the radical right is in people's minds. jane: there's a reason i use the word radical. it is a word that could be taken

the wrong way, but it is how they describe themselves. there is a book called radicals for capitalism about the libertarian movement. there's a description of charles koch early on in his life. he was saying he wanted to pull the government out by its roots. it's radical in that it's talking about something really dramatic. john: i can talk to you all day. everyone should buy the book, read it and absorb it. up next, who won the day? the answer will surprise you, after this. ♪

john: before we go, i have a

question, who won the day? mark: donald trump. john: i agree it's a good day for donald trump, but even a better day for sarah palin, who is back in the spotlight. the first one she has commanded in the year, and that is good for her. when you visit the site, check out more on sarah palin's endorsement of donald trump. mark: tomorrow, exclusive footage of bernie sanders on our documentary series. we will see you tomorrow night from new hampshire. until then we say to you, sayonara. ♪ ♪

rishaad: it is wednesday, january 20. this is "trending business." ♪ rishaad: we will be live in hanoi this hour. we are watching a gloomy picture. markets on a decline. japan failing to hold onto tuesday's gains. the forecast is increasingly downbeat. global chief executives

suggesting global pessimism as the imf cuts forecast for growth. and political leaders deciding whether to stick with china or move closer to the united states. follow me on twitter. jakarta session is getting underway. we will have a look. decidedly pessimistic. any change? we had relief yesterday but could not hold on to the gains. we are decidedly in the red. asx extending losses .6% lower. new zealand the only market in the green so far. singapore is the worst of the lot. 1.5%.