>> more and more britains do not want to stay. what is a major rebuke to prime minster david cameron. recently declared his support. remaining in the e.u. would lead of democracy. he is the editor in chief of from 2006 to 2014.

he's editor in chief to the economist magazine where i first know him. which i am pleased to have him back here. morning. so, explain this to us. >> british have long been of angst about europe. cameron decided to offer them a referendum. debate about where he that. have done i think there was a lot of pressure on cameron to give them to have another say on this. it's been building and building theparticularly within conservative party. david cameron prime minster and head of the conservative party. within the conservative party, the easiest way to think about is akin to being pro-life

in the republican party. cameron his deal has been to go to europe and he would come back the improvements in relationship. he negotiated with angel markell. he brought back a package, brought that back to parliament and said we'll have a referendum whether to stay or go. in.nt to stay >> stop right there. unions what the european is and what's the advantage to being a member of the european member? of being aantage european member, you're part of world's biggest economy. that's the main thing. bad ideauld think it's to leave. it's a bigger reason for people up.set it let french and german and the european union was about bringing peace and long term prosperity to europe. it's been a project of the elite. set up when people -- they did for a

long time, europe was very popular. time within the conservative party, you go back era of ted heath, to big thingpean was a in britain. margaret thatcher was left that. since that the conservative party has been more skeptical. that's a division. the one hand, possible the wet nation in the world, also welcomed foreigners. on the other hand, we have a thing -- those two things clash. stuck. charlie:where does he negotiate? >> he gained that the european is not close to the union. out to do few opts with welfare reforms.

one of the biggest issues in to deal with migrants. is happening people getting comingbout the checks into claiming benefits. he's got a rule that you get seven years before you're allowed to get benefits. it'sworth something but not really the thing you can go out and sell this on the street british. the main argument for staying repeatedly ismake the prospects of going out are much worse. everything is being versed. think thers, they paradise.ree trading charlie: britain is part of the union.n that was the point i was making. the economic unity, that was two points i was trying to make and you corrected me.

not right.e, i'm idea ofe idea that the europe had some economic dimensions which has been successful. the political dimension has not been successful. >> the british never brought edge.he political now there are many other people who feel the same way. got other people you're asking questions. dangerous thing about -- who think thats that british should stay in the european union. against britain joining the euro i thought all the crazy dreamers were in euro. i think the crazy dreamers are itbritish trying to take away. charlie: who will be the crazy dreamers >> boris johnson -- back in

terms of joining the euro zone, of big british banks and various people came out saying it will be better to join euro. they were wrong. now, which ising really interesting, the reason why everybody pretty much -- well -- this is about the west as well as britain. that's incredibly important. if britain leave, it's bad for britain. it's probably bad for european. balancet have this exact. you got dynamic economy in europe. see all of these other problems coming back. there are other things to do with security. gather together. there's a reason for americans to worry. charlie: if europe acted, it would be the largest economy in the world. is the largest economy in the world.

but it's not in terms of the clout that comes with that, the divisions within it. he once told me about a meeting the old days when they sat around the table, the germans.french and delore the great man who pushed it forward. he turned to the belgians. he said you have to do this. persuadebility to anybody to do anything for europe is much less. it's like the united states with state fighting desperately. charlie: is boris johnson in for politicalce reason -- opposition for political reasons or deep theionate beliefs about economics and the european union? >> there's always been tension

between him and cameron on many levels.t he is vying to be successful. well.is principle as boris been on the side -- so as people including cameron. they have made decisions in this case. the cost of leaving is so gigantic. charlie: do he deserve most of the credit for what's happened economy?itish >> i think he deserves a lot of credit. some people say he took a bit of gamble in the same way as a gambleeron is taking now. what he managed to do is convey the message that britain needed a place. the rightwas it economic message? >> in terms of the numbers, he's been right. many people, larry had -- i don't think it

happened. people said this wouldn't work. that balance to have a fiscal thing never quite as talked. osborne loose monetary policy sort of work. the british economy going much better than rest of year. -- europe. charlie: tell me what you think. sure what else there is to say. when the vote >> the vote is june 23rd. not that long ago, i read a chancethere was a 20% maybe you end up with a whole variety of different things. going up.n charlie: is there any common -- party,look at the labor it's more left. france, right

a certaines have because of migrant issues and issues that are certain gaining strength. >> it terms of what's happening, across the whole west, you see a repeated thing. angry andople who are left behind globalization and behind by an economy which seem to be ruining some people more than them. angry and they want change. they seem to be turning to leaders for instance donald trump. who say, look, i'm who will tell you what's wrong with the world and it.to fix the reason why the european union is particularly prone to very much anit is elitist project. it's one which is set up by the

elite. they never had referendums before. the european centered back, said again until you get it right. whatie: in scott taken, will happen? >> one of the reasons why it set of things had to do with britain's relation with and what happens and what happens with scotland is interesting. british vote go out, the will remain what would immediately happen after a referendum. you can see david cameron go. scotts say,ct the we didn't play any role in this. things, thaty , united kingdom.

charlie: what's your best guess? >> my guess is person will stay in. sitting high above. you might think twice before going across it. it's the risk and downside of this i think it's s a very big one. that should frighten some people. charlie: in part that's the unknown. is the unknown, nobody has really had the chance to ask people about this 40 years. people are angry with their leaders. .ust as they are here too much regulation, not enough markets.p ly, they wantamental say.ve a in this case, i think as in scotland, the negative side will

be don't do this. the risk is too high. for coming.ank you back in a moment. stay with us.

charlie: he is the federal reserve bank of minneapolis. after working with goldman sachs. oversaw the $700 billion bank

initiative. known as t.a.r.p. proposed that they could be broken up and regulated like public utilities or have increased capital requirements. pleased to have him back at this table welcome. >> thank you charlie. it's great to be here. charlie: let me talk about your career. you were an engineer. i think you went up as an analyst in silicon valley? >> yes, after business, i went to silicon valley when i was a goldman. charlie: then, hank, who was the ceo of goldman sachs, goes to treasury. did you write him a letter or call him up? him up.led i met women once for ten minutes. to washington let's talked. he was not yet confirmed. in there as a pitch. i want to you hire me. he said stop with your pitch, i somebody on my team that will do whatever needs to get

done. i said perfect. me up. this is a year before the financial crisis. none of us saw it coming. charlie: you had deep involvement in the introduction. that's over. hank leaves as secretary of the treasury. to california.k we're wondering what you will do. you run for public office. served in public office. running for governor. i looked around the country, i saw a lot of people running for office. i thought if they can do it, why can't do i it. i thought california has the highest poverty rate in america. my parents came here, immigrants from india. i grew up normal middle class kid. i get to work for the president of the united states. a great country. i said i want to give every kid in california the same shot in life that i had. that starts with a good education and getting a good job. that's what i ran on. charlie: you win a primary. you learn a lot.

do thatgo back and again. then you end up in minneapolis of federal reserve in that city? happen?that >> there are 12 federal reserves. they each have board of directors. ceo ande look for a new they conducted a nationwide search. said if i had and interest in applying. charlie: what's your role there? >> i lead an organization about one thousand people. there's a income element to that. i sit on the federal open market helped discuss interest rate policy for the country. then i get involved in broader issues around the ninth district. minnesota, it's also north and south dakota and montana and part of wisconsin. then you make a speech that is controversial. and alsoy in this city in washington. first, the question really is what did you think of the

that were passed after the crash in 2007 and 2008? >> i strongly supported the need for financial reform. didn't goied that it far enough to address the too big to fail issue for the banks. i gave a speech in 2011 of the federal bank in chicago. wanted to reserve -- charlie: after dodd frank too big to fail was a problem? >> none of us wants to be in a position where we once have to use taxpayer money to stabilize large banks. the question i ask, did enough.nk go far i joined the federal reserve. on too bigthe book to fail. before the crisis. the original book. original version. there were a lot of experts in minneapolis. i sort of talking to them about ideas on too big to fail.

my concerns are valid. we have these giant banks at the system.f our financial one of them collapses, there are linkages to their economy. it's like the heart and arteries in our vains. attack, it a heart can kill the whole body. that's what we saw in 2008. when the biggest banks ran into trouble, they brought the whole economy down with them. in contrast, think about silicon valley. we -- the tech boom in the crashed in 2000. it didn't cause devastation for the whole american economy. thing aboutnique having these giant banks a the center of our financial system. lot of good. if they run into trouble, they can cause real harm. policymakers like me and former boss secretary paulson and the step -- federal reserve had to step in. didn't do a good job explaining why it was about

notuing big banks and taking care of main street. >> communication was something we struggled with. projecttrying to confidence to the markets. we were trying to let congress know howmerican people scared we were. those are different message and one microphone. charlie: when you say too big today, how many banks are too big to fail? park 20 financially significant, charlie: meaning be allowed to fail. if they fail, they'll take down the system in part. a lot.itions matter we've made progress. i don't want to suggest we have progress. the bank have more capital today. thing.a good charlie: capital requirements like dodd-frank and others. >> they are stronger than we were before we went into crisis. i don't want the american people impressionwith the that we may not be back in the same place again.

need to takee transformational reform to solve big to fail issue. charlie: what do you say -- >> i'm sympathetic to that concern. it frustrates me that we haven't people don'tie: pay accountability. >> the managers don't pay. shareholders who end up paying. i'm not a lawyer, this is really for the department of justice. it's hard for me to know what is.issue charlie: meaning we should go back and look and hold the people accountable. >> or at least go forward. you can put in place that people are on the hook for their decisions. like j.p. morgan and wells fargo, i assume they're too big to fail.

say we will never fail. they didn't fail in 2008. >> they didn't fail in 2008 because the american people in.ped charlie: jaime diamond said we money.need the you made us take it. you know it's true. it becausehem take he didn't want somebody not being a part of it because he deep,t the crisis was so everybody had to be part of it. >> that is true. however, i like jamie diamond personally. i'm not here to demonize anybody. all of j.p. morgan's counterparts, they were in too.uptcy it was only true because the american people stepped in to save all of their friends around the table. charlie: you saw that when aig failed? >> absolutely. the federal reserve had to step rescue aig. not because of aig itself, everybody else who would have down.ragged

charlie: there are two options, theer one you can break up banks. highertwo, you can set standards of capitalization? one, i made a comparison to a nuclear power plant. it meltsower plant, if down, it's devastating for society. governments will do whatever to stabilize the nuclear power plant before it melts down. power is an important element of our country, we have incredible regulations around it it.ontrol it and protect maybe if we conclude that we okay, thenanks, let's capitalize like the power plant so they are truly safe and secure. charlie: as you know, this has a very controversial speech. you knew that going in. acting chief executive said, breaking up the u.s. financial ensure that would one of the united states most

competitive global industries small andmpanies large has turned over to banks the u.s.side >> you know, if other countries want to take extreme risks with their financial systems, we stop them. i think we should do what's economies and taxpayers. charlie: what if they don't? they take advantage of what we done? possible. we have thousands of banks in america. see smaller orto banksze banks if large restructured. charlie: how would you break them up? >> one example is the glass-steagall thing. do it.gured out how to you can simply set very high capital requirements as a of size. which would force the banks to more aggressively break

themselves up. of wayse at the do doing this. argue, bigy would companies like boeing need global banks. there's truth to that. to scale toonomies banks. cost benefit analysis you have to consider the cost too. charlie: the cost is you may risk failing. big.se you're so >> who's going to be running j.p. morgan in 30 years. jaime.t going to be maybe it's not somebody who's as as mr. diamond.whether the downsize, the cost to the american people is so devastating. charlie: then the question of interest rates. >> she's put down the marker of dependency. has let's -- let's look at the data. a mandate. given us stable prices, which means low

and maximum employment. the good news is the job market continues to be strong. to put more americans back to work. that would bring inflation back our target. i feel good about where she's taking it. charlie: should we raise the wage?m >> there are pro and cons. it depends on the overall unemployment situation. starting from a place of high unemployment and you raise the minimum wage, you make don'tder for people who have a job to get a job. if we bring the unemployment rate down and put a lot of to work and then raise the wage, the cost of consequences are not great. regional approach maybe better national approach. waslie: when this crisis happening, there was a lot of working together between the executivend the office. banks today.ntral -- federal reserve in the united

states. >> all the central banks around theworld especially here in u.s. they're taking a leadership to get the economies growing. central banks are struggling from the same challenges. inflation is coming in low what central banks want it to be. struggling to get back to .% level it's hard for me to see they're all under shooting conviction. bit, struggling a little but i think that in the u.s., we have some advantages. creating jobs a lot faster than europe is. that's a good thing. can keep putting americans back to work, that would lead to work.ic charlie is the jury out is raising the interest rate as the did >> i think so. currentist estimate is economy growth. if that happens, we would expect

raise interest allows. the data lot -- charlie: great to have you here. back in a moment, stay with us. >> terry, we'll talk about some virginia issues. let's start with national politics. handicap the hillary and bernie race. race?ch a tight >> in fairness, he's been saying a lot of things. it just can't happen. promising everybody free college education. as governor of virginia, i love to give everybody free college education. there's zero chance that can be pass. you can't afford it.

he's promising everybody the hard work of president obama did with healthcare, he's promising everybody free healthcare. for a lot of folks, they hear and it sounds great. the reality is, we've been around longer, it can never become law. >> let's talk about young people. young people like barack obama and they like bill clinton and love bernie sander and they don't like hillary clinton. they voted overwhelming for sanderses. why are you young people so turned off by hillary? >> i don't know if they're turned off by hillary versus senator sander. is promising free college educations. in 2004,xciting. back where we had governor dean and all the young folks and had the orange hats. he had a lot of young folks. we're just in the beginning of

the process. we've only had two contests. >> you think that she could wrap this up by march 15th. likelihood we'll announce that senator sanders cannot canno contend. >> how is this campaign different? think that campaign -- arizona, ohio in and indiana. they're a very talented team, the mechanics. last time, it wasn't a delegate operation. together an operation to go win delegates. in order to become a democratic nominee, to have win delegates. that's the plan he put forth. long haul. running for president. we had two contests. we won one, we lost one. people whoe some want to replace robby. you think that would be a

mistake? >> sure. i've been in clinton world a long time. this is not the easiest place to survive. it is a big constellation. opinion, whichn is great. when you're up you're up, when you're down, everybody has a idea how we should change it. we won one. got the mechanics in place. >> you talk about the sanders agenda message being unrealistic. hillary message? -- you can put it on a bumper sticker. what can hillary put upon a bumper sticker? >> she's a progressive who gets results. you know she went to bat for children's healthcare and other healthcare issue. she got out of yale, she could have gone to work anywhere she wanted. thewent to work for children's legal defense fund. the work she did on healthcare,

the unitedady of states. she went to china to talk about issues. her voice is always been -- >> do you think that came across? >> i wish it would get across more. it's really in the process. on, we continue to move that voice will get out there. listen, on the republican side, lot of static up in the air. fascinating year. she gets results done. the things she works on. president obama ran against he made her his secretary of state. that tells you something. said to democrats, i will continue the policies of president obama. senator sanders has been critical. on it but inbuild addition, she needs to protect president's left wing. there,one doesn't get in

workedwn the things he on. >> march 1, super tuesday. virginia is in play. she wins virginia easy? >> it's never easy. she will win virginia. i give senator sanders credit. mattersig she wins >> sure it does depend where you win in virginia. you know it's a congressional district. that's important as well. you got out of new hampshire, we delegates. i'll take one vote. unite of thehe a win.ucus, a win is >> before we get to virginia issue, let me ask you to put your political expert hat on and look at the republican party. you make of the donald trump phenomenon? think people -- it's been a circus to watch the debates. name calling. if you do watch, you watch senator sander and watch clinton, it's a debate.

it has been embarrassing to watch some of these debates go on. i never attack our country. greateste're the nation on earth. can we make it better? can.urse we ball of this china killing us in japan and forget that. >> it seems to be working for donald trump. >> it seems to be working for a segment. >> who would be the toughest republican to run against in the state of virginia? >> listen, i think cruz would have a tough time. attractionee the some people have with senator marco rubio. >> kasich? >> i know governor kasich. formidablewould be in virginia. i think senator rubio because millennial and he's from cuba and he's from florida. at electoral college states. kasich is from ohio and rubio is from florida. they've got to worry about their flanks. strongerould be much

general election candidate than either cruz or trump? this, 270 electoral votes. you look at how many the out with and how many the republicans. we have a huge lead in the college. you got to go to states of new colorado and first with large hispanic populations. they have watched this attacksan debate in the on the hispanic community on the immigrant community, whatever it maybe. turnoff.uch a we generally get mid-60% of the vote.ic what has been said, what donald trump said and others said, i look at that hispanic vote, it could be a historic nominee.the democratic it would be historic with the rhetoric that has gone on, i a real possibility it could be a historic turnout. people are angry. borders, the issue that's going on with refugees, of no muslims in our

country. there are a billion muslims in the world. them today too help support us to fight isis in east.ddle >> we will talk about virginia issues. let's do that now. is political. redistributing controversy will go to the ofreme court with the death .ustice >> we've gone through the process. one new -- >> can you pick any other seats virginia? >> now we've won, which will be

democratic performing. we have other seats that are very competitive. you look at northern virginia, always an opportunity. very rich area that we can pick up democratic seat. we can pick up there in northern virginia. huge opportunity with a republican held seat up there. florida added two seats to the process. we've got three new seats that the democratic column. youerry mcauliffe, i'm glad didn't walk away. thank you all for watching.

charlie: rodge angel is here he's long term contributor with the new yorker magazine. writer to be inducked the both baseball hall of fame artshe american academy of and letters. how about that. old man"ook is "this it is a collection of his writings. growing olderion and life in its tenth decade. the 2015 america society of magazine and editors, bests say award. he said it brought him more kindness from anything he has ever written. i'm pleased to have roger angel the table. >> how are you?

charlie: i'm good. up.'m supposed to be charlie: talk about old in a minute. your health is pretty good. >> i'm good. charlie: your lovely wife died and later you remarried. >> happily remarried. charlie: which is one of the things i think about age. you talk about this, loneliness. >> loneliness and life goes on. we find that unbearable things happen to us. losses and weight of losses seems unbearable. somehow we're better and we're happier. we're the same as we were before. what you said in the essay genesis. inrote this whole piece pieces. meaning this is a collection of other things you have written here. i wrote this whole piece in

pieces, i didn't know what to do with it. there's a lot of in there about loss. central theme.e i lost my older daughter and of 48 years. we lost a wonderful dog of ours who jump out of a window during a thunderstorm. there's wound in and out. think in a gloomy way, in recollection and often oferrupting with change tone. they are jokes, jokeses about death even. me.ink it sound like i love good jokes. and beyondut aging what i said and what you said? arrival aside from the sex and second biggest surprise in your life. youenly you're old and don't feel old. suddenly you look see how old are. i think almost all old people feel about the same.

they're a little farther down the line. that misconception maybe since we're look grave and move slowly, we given up. i don't think that's true of people. mostly my age and life keeps .appening charlie: this resonateds with age?e of your >> enormously. phenomenon old people get to notice. if you're at a dinner party, among friends, you think of something, you speak. looks at you and nods and the conversation goes on as if you hadn't said anything. of age. invisibility behind that is the notion that unconscious. he's old and now it's our turn. think this book, this helpedion, some way has

people feel little bit less .nvisible charlie: that's what good writers do. to other expressions people's thoughts. essayon't come here -- got a lot of responses. i'm trying not to become a spokesman. i'm just me. it what happens to me. it's been surprising. other thing is, really of youngeris a lot people have been reading the see.and saying now i my parents and grandparents. they also think it's not going get there.d when i torlie: is what you saying them it's not so bad? sometimes it's hard. losses are unbearable. there, i've been going

through the same therapist for years. it's not therapy anymore, it's just schedule conversations. my wife died, i said, i don't know how i'm going to be able to stand this. she said, neither do i. but you will. say. is perfect thing to you will. charlie: you love baseball more anything. more than any sport. >> i guess so. sure i do. it's been great fit for some reason. charlie: hall of fame is a pretty good feet. >> i don't look for deeper meanings in baseball. for connection, my other job, my main job always use has been an editor. the thing that connects baseball and writing, both of them look easy. they are really hard to do. really hard to write.

for everybody. everybody. it's hard to write. it's hard to play ball. looks.rder than it keepis part of why you going. charlie: baseball in the major league, are you looking at the best of the best? >> it's hard for them too. there's a difference between the top level players and the low level players. charlie: but it's still hard for them too? >> i'm not so sure it's hard for aaron. jim frye, a wonderful manager of to me, you once said have to think about the .240 hitter who was just barely going long. hit perd one extra base

week. per week.base hit charlie: two base hits per week .300?make him a >> yes. .205. what iting struggle -- really love is sitting down with working --'ve been writer i've been working with years. have a copy and dealing with a sentence or something tone or something little bit off. you trying to think, what are we this?to do about he would do this over and over

again. last day later that day, he me in.lown he'll rewritten it. sound.s that he would say it to himself. think how wanted to is the reader going to take this. it was all about the reader. this sound better? this is what writers do to themselves. competitive. was you were excited about some -- novellestrest an and he went home. i think you'll like it. he said really? later, thereeeks will be a new story from him. charlie: i'm hesitant to do

this. any of them that came forward and spoke to you that say this is a talent of god? it.you write , -- i think i said that. arrivebody else when ehe -- when he arrived. amazing essays about thingstions of happening. historic references and references of the day. and funny and completely surprising. over again. half the people on the magazine them. understand we were publishing them because loved him as well. he said i don't know what this but is really something else.

other people thought he was the life.of as long as he's writing for us, he's going to be okay. got you to write about yourself. >> she did. charlie: did you resist that? was surprised because i had a sense of privacy about writing my childrenily and and my own life. which i still have, i think. said, you've had an interesting life. to write more. this is why i wrote this book let. there's at the love personal stuff in it. charlie: was it hard for you? you started? >> i can't remember. think it was a break through piece. i wanted to write about my step father. who was not just a great writer physically, one of the most graceful people that moved him. walking down the road, there was something about him. was very shy.

every week, hem was writing comment page, first page from the new yorker on he would lockday, himself in his study. lot ofhear not a whole pauses. he'll come out for lunch and not say anything. very serious. mail it off in the afternoon goodand say this isn't enough. you read it and come back the next monday or something, he'll see it again. he'll say, not bad. the amazing thing about that is, this is i try to take him as a model, seems like the easiest thing in the world. dashing off the letter of somebody. charlie: you knew he agonized over it? >> yes. there are some people for whom easier than others.

for you.it's hard >> it's very hard to start a .iece i would freeze and days i can't do this. this was something i'm conscious performing. can do i this sort of thing. after a while, i think i learned can do this sort of thing. start, it isn't as hard to be. i'm surrounded by wonderful writers. there everyday? >> not anymore. i've always had wonderful me.ers around i see them -- what's the matter, working. this if you're writing on a deadline, all of that goes away. charlie: your mother was an editor there. you became fiction editor.

you held a position your mother held at the new yorker. >> i ended up in her office, office. first i moved in her office in the back of her closet, i found a round face powder. the therapist, he said, of greatest single act experience was living in my office. charlie: were you an athlete at all? a great athlete. -- i had a good curve ball. charlie: how about tennis or golf? tennis.e i play pretty good tennis. i played a lot of tennis over

the years. a lot of doubles and playing with the same double people for year after year. charlie: have you kept a diary? >> no. never. charlie: why not? you're a man of writers? thoughts. had daily charlie: was it necessary to keep a diary to have a daily thought? >> i don't know. what i have done, one thing unusual, he put me on this. he said you want to change around. turn the paper just start writing across mind.er is on your cross writing. you can start cross writing and say i meant that so and so. thing happen. start going cross down. it's entirely different. it's not what you would write if write this way.

fill in my thoughts. my 10 or 12 pages about what happened in the last few days. is going by. not as the regular thing. charlie: it seems to me, first all, whoever it was, i don't know what i think until i see whoever said that odd.used to think it was >> i'm trying to go somewhere. writing and you trying to tell a story. thism trying to talk to invisible reader. charlie: what brings you joy in life? where would you put work? >> work is very hard. very hard. it could be a little blog. if i written something today, i'm okay. chicag charlie: you're great man. you for taking the time. it's really good that you're

healthy and able as you are and things like this that help connect to all of us. charlie. so much charlie: roger angell, book called "this old man all in pieces." ♪

>> coming up, big businesses getting roughed up by both republicans and democrats this year. look at how the big lobbying group is attempting to get their act together. also the amazing story of stewart bray. and a trying court to save the cat from instinction. wintero break out of the rut. spring fashion quiz. all of that and more as we of latest scenes issue. "business week" right here on bloomberg television.