>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." >> "whiskey tango foxtrot" is a new film starring tina fey, based on journalist kim barker's "the talibanoir, the shuffle," strange days in afghanistan and pakistan. cable newsars as a copy writer who volunteers to become a war reporter in afghanistan. they call the film a brisk and blustery comic drama. here's the trailer for "whiskey tango foxtrot." >> oh! >> are you okay, ma'am? >> i gotta pee.

>> must be dumping out. >> no. my pants on!ing >> the network needs reporters ground in afghanistan. you are all the unmarried -- in.re going to be joining >> to travel or the crime? how many people do you need? ♪[music] >> please shut up! >> she says, welcome to afghanistan. >> this is where the foreign reporters live. >> it's the fun house. >> oh, my gosh! it's so nice to have another house.n the you're like six, seven. you're a nine here, borderline 10. like a 15? you >> yeah. >> huh. >> this is an extreme environment. i've seen people with actual experience, like bad decisions here. >> you should let me interview you. >> but i do not know you.

can we get to know each other? >> huh. >> this is excellence! >> i hope you can do this. >> we are all here. what's your reason? >> i just wanted out of my job. mildlynted out of my depressive boyfriend. i wanted to blow everything up. >> that's the most american white lady story i've ever heard. home!go >> i need to get something on the air. >> it's too dangerous. >> don't you think that would be kind of exposure? >> pretty good for you too. >> he tried to shoot us! >> ha ha! ♪[music] >> woo! >> honestly, what happened? >> the usual, cabo happened. >> today, kabul's first licensed

female driver hits the road. [cheering] >> that sucks for women. ♪ one two three to me ♪e gonna run back ♪ >> the film stars tina fey. screenwriter robert carlock and one of its producers, lorne michaels. i'm pleased to have all of them here. did this get started? >> well, i'm almost embarrassed to admit that i became aware of book because someone forwarded me the times review, said, oh, kim barker presents herself almost as a tina fey-like character. got the book! >> your first book. >> my first book! someone read it to me. >> ha ha! yeah. >> and so then i got -- ha ha -- really good and really funny and interesting and well observed.d and about a woman in this insane environment, having these darkly experiences. >> so did you turn to robert, your writing business producing

partner? >> i went to lorne first and i said, i think this might be a movie. um... i said -- >> what did you say, wise man? >> ha ha! knew paramounti was looking for a taliban comedy and she would probably be the first. >> brad called you up and said i comedy?aliban >> yeah. we're going to beat ben stiller to this. >> so you bought the book rights. >> and then set out and i knew that robert was the only person to do all the research necessary not only to adapt the book but to do the about the military and afghan culture and the news business and all the things that of thisuired adaptation. >> and you like kim barker? >> i do. yeah. she's really smart. >> but you changed it to kim baker. >> budget cuts. the "r."'t afford >> the entire movie. >> all the money is on the screen. >> ha ha! that mean? >> "whiskey tango foxtrot."

>> ha ha ha! >> it's like a writing session s.n.l. >> like this but 16 hours and fistfight.there's a >> and food. >> and more coffee and what else? >> exactly. >> so is it a comedy? is it a drama? what?-- is it history? >> i think that, um, before were just sold as comedies or just as action pictures. know, in -- when i was very young, we saw the movie "m.a.s.h.." i don't know how you describe whether it was a comedy or drama or whatever. >> it's just good. >> it's good. is good too.his so... >> you went to new mexico to make it. cast -- >> incredible. >> incredible, yeah. billy bob thornton playing a general. and martin freeman playing a photographer. margot robbie plays an idol.

you're a 10., >> that was generous, by the way, having just seen her at the oscars. like a 20! 18 to 20. >> did you watch "m.a.s.h." when you were writing this? >> i did. i watched "m.a.s.h.." "catch-22",d reread looking for permission to do the movie that lorne is talking about. kim's book obviously gave a lot okay,t freedom to say, these are people living in unusual circumstances. sometimes dire circumstances but funny things still happen and they still say funny things. kind ofially in that circumstance. everything else is different. get the tonent to right. you want the people who lived it to like the movie and say, was.s the way it and, you know, i think -- >> have you heard from people who lived it? >> kim, yeah. >> we had a bunch of -- >> kim's friends. screening ad a couple weeks ago, maybe last

week. >> does kim, in your case kim get addicted to war? >> yeah. >> does she find all this so much better than whatever she doing as a copy writer or producer? >> well, it is a theme in the this idea that people get addicted to this adrenaline lifestyle. in the movie, yes, she's gone over there, thinking she's going to go for three months. for three years. she finds herself, like a junkie, chasing the next story, the next victory. and she starts to realize that dangerous a lifestyle, so she'll live forever. >> what's interesting about it, go to any hotel, there's always a designated hotel in a war zone. that's where they all hang out. and you see the same people. from sarajevo to afghanistan. >> and in the end, they're theer to those people, in same way that, you know, you hear about army buddies growing

up. once you've been through that kind of experience, you have more in common with the thane you're working with probably anybody else, or at least you can talk about what you just went through -- you with anyk about it other group of people. >> and a number of people kim included, when i spoke to them what this experience is like, about what that addiction is like, one aspect that a people mentioned is that you get addicted to not having to live a regular life. say, oh, no, i'm not going to that christening in new jersey. baghdad. i'm being extremely important right now. and they are. thing.t is a big great war reporter. he's off all the time. he cannot, it seems to me, there.going he loves the story and he knows he's good at the story. and you want to do what you do well. part of the magnet too. >> and you're aware of who else is there and who else has a is goingand who else to do the story. and also, from all those other

well.ies as itit's got a flavor to that's -- and they're all -- they have nothing in common with the local population. >> and there's competition among reporters. in your case, it's margot character. >> margot plays a woman named tonya, a fictitious reporter, that my character idolizes when she first gets there and they become fast friends. but then there's a healthy competition that eventually turn noose maybe a less healthy competition, towards the end. well, she starts to realize that putting herself and others in danger, in ways that is not -- it's not good for anybody. >> this is a clip. is meetingre kim margot robbie. here it is. --can i say, >> absolutely feel free to say no. i hate to even bring it up. rude even asking this. >> no. >> may i have sex with your

security guy? >> oh, by all means. >> you're not just saying that to be pilot? >> even nick. >> no, that would never happen. so you're good. >> hey! nick.uld have in afghanistan, you're a piece of art. >> thank you. oh, that's nice. >> because you're like a seven, six, seven in new york? you are a nine. 10.erline >> what are you here, like a 15? >> yeah. >> huh. >> way back when, in the late 1990's, when she was at s.n.l., who you think will go to the screens, who will be than just more writers? not that "just" should ever be word writer. >> ha ha! >> you sound like my mom. performerd been a before she got there. and she came in as a writer, and rose up pretty quickly. not annoyingly.

>> do you see it early, whether ory have been a performer not? >> yes. but you also can see confidence. when people of see have had enough time on stage or how theyng good about are out there. conan,even somebody like you saw something even though he'd been a writer and not a performer? he'd been -- his dream was always to be a performer. dreams have all been met now. [laughter] >> but -- i don't want to sound like there's -- being just a great.is not just and so few have that skill. skill, as have that much as seth and all the people that we know. i think it's whether or not you performing, that people are very good at it who don't

really enjoy it. >> like? >> people who are really funny miserable all the time, comedy is filled with them. >> in life or in the comedy? >> this thing -- it brings them joy. they do it and they're good at it. but they're not fun to be around probably tooedy is important to be left to professionals, so when you are who are funny, the thing that makes the most fun is who you're around people are funny, they're kind of funny, and nothing makes people who do comedy laugh more than people around them being funny. you like that. >> you said that adam mckay was that way? funny. in the room? >> yes. >> funniest person in the room. >> that's what they said, person in the room. >> and adam brought tina to the show. >> adam gave me my job, brought me to s.n.l. as a writer. we were in chicago at the same time and he was on stage. you're the funniest person in the room, is it simply off-the-cuff funny?

>> yeah. in adam's case. >> it also helps when your adam's size. gonna be heard. >> the intimidation. >> you're already playing in character. do you want to direct film? >> repeat the question. to -- like >> charlie is going to be cut out. just repeat the question in your answer. >> tina said to restate the question. i assume this is going to be just me. [laughter] say that? you >> ha ha! >> so you could use it without me? the question,ting so i could process the question a little. >> people always do that. you have a problem with your earplugs, and you simply didn't hear. >> bad ear. >> not a presidential candidate, we know that. >> i've directed a few shows and enjoy it. but it does eat you up. idea of directing something. it would have to cost zero dollars. over't want anyone looking my shoulder and wanting their money back. lorne --

>> no. costing zero dollars. train?update grape >> for many things, yes. for joke writing, i remember started working on weekend update, when colin quinn was the host, and i was a staff s.n.l.at and a few of us, sort of as a favor, were pulled in to just to to write extra jokes, because they had some guys writing jokes, and to try to is a containedat joke, in and of itself, that's not just attitude. it's a very difficult thing. that's a great thing you learn. robert was a producer, weekend it.te, when jimmy and i did i think also the thing that's the amazing gift about weekend you sit in front of the camera every week and you tell america, hi, i'm tina fey. >> yep. >> and you just feed it. all the cast are working so they're in wigs and noses. even now, as a viewer, i'll be who iss that kyle, or that? i know -- i know they tell me

names every week. >> one of the things about update, at s.n.l., which is an intensely competitive environment, it is a little the show where the five of us, six of us, knew we get our nine minutes. >> it was sort of the design of the show that that would be the because there were shows that ended at 11:30 and that ended atngs midnight. if you were just tuning in, you that.catch so the audience is already warmed up. alreadyio audience is there. you know what kind of house it is, which makes it much easier than opening the show. >> if you want to see a political sat tear, where do you seeatire, where do it, other than saturday night live? >> certainly on the daily show certainly -- lots of -- >> john oliver. >> john oliver, of course, yes. but they're doing it in news

format. i'm trying to think of... >> i think that there's is --ing about who whether there's a certain kind of likability that there was, say, with will ferrell playing or dana playing -- or clinton.laying there's something where, in order for it to work, there has to be -- >> more. >> well, i'm getting there. there has to be some charm. you can't editorialize. thehave to bring character -- bring the person to life. so if you're just editorializing and you disapprove of them and you don't like them and you're that in youring at performance, it won't work. so in a sense, you have to commit to making the person likeable, even though whatever you feel personally isn't that. and trust that the writing will other part clear. >> so he is there. so was it easy? >> what? that the end goal in a sense, to find whatever you

thought, make something about this person charming or likeable? surveillance? i mean, we did it, you know, eight years ago now. it was a lot of us wanting to figure out what is the joke, like what do we -- what is true about this whole situation? rockays talk about chris and why i think he's a genius, let's take a situation and try that no one's true has noticed and said yet. that's what we were trying to do with her and mccain and figure out. >> i just love as a viewer that you play her with such good time.all the the take of not -- >> right. >> the take is not negative. that youis a sense can't wait. >> because you're just scolding, you know. scolding, then there's no laughs and there's no fun in it. it's getting to make your own as the audience that is sort of what we were encouraging, as opposed to

here's an idiot. or here's something we admire, you know. ever think you'd come back, doing her again? >> a long time, at the end of that little run eight years ago, i thought -- >> eight years ago? >> yeah. now that she was when we started, so last time i iayed her, i was like, boy, look more like her now. >> and she came back and did it for -- when palin endorsed -- >> trump, yes. 40th anniversary, we had that as a question. the 40thhe was at anniversary show. doing qy seinfeld was and a. and she asked him something. pay me to would you come back and run this for trump? >> run with donald trump, you know. and that was pressient. >> roll tape. >> thank you, iowa! oh! i wanted to take a break from my full-time career of writing

things on facebook! [laughter] and lend mywn support to the next president of the united states! donald j. trump! [cheering] >> hey, america, isn't she great? just the total package. legs, yelling, everything. [cheering] seen a woman this impressive since jeb bush. >> i'm here for all your and teamsters, you farmers and charmers! or two you're a mom broke girls or three men and a a rock 'n' roller, holy roller, pushing stroller, pro bowler with an abscess molar! >> she's a firecracker. a real pistol. she's crazy, isn't she? [laughter] >> tau tau tau tau tau!

>> that's talent. that's talent, isn't it? ha ha! dale, making about that jacket. they had to make that jacket, because i couldn't find it. >> you said something at the beginning. voice in creating character is crucial. yes? >> yeah, i think so. >> and you just practice, practice, practice. tapes.uld just watch watch that thing over and over, and try to match pitch. that i had things seen darrell hammond do for years, darrell, who is so truly at that stuff, and just -- yeah. >> you said genius for chris. generally considered to be a genius at this? >> yes, he's the real thing. it?hat is is it delivery or is it just -- >> well, he'll tell unpleasant audience, really who isn't interested in hearing it, but he'll do it with charm and it will be truly funny, you know. popular.n't always he just goes into the areas crowdit's easy to whip a

up who agree with you or to find what it is they want to hear and tell them that. a truth-teller. and certainly in both communities. spareow, he doesn't anyone. >> you gave him high marks for the oscars. >> yeah. yeah. >> really good. look at this. this is another clip from the film. here it is, billy bob thornton and tina fey. >> are you familiar with the 4-10-4, miss? it refers to women who were fours back home, they become tens when they ship out. when they're back stateside, they become fours again. you saying i'm a four? >> i'm saying you carry an orange backpack. seen people with actual experience make bad decisions here. thehile you're outside wire, with my men, you will in no way distract them. understood? asking me not to sleep with your soldiers? because i -- soldiers. marines. you're not here to sleep with or on mym jobs of any type

marines. clear copy, miss baker? >> copy that. >> good. we'll get you out to a fog as you.as we find a ride to meanwhile, captain stern will see that you get a wet hooch. >> a what? a tent with a shower, unless you prefer a dry hooch. >> i would not, sir. >> what does this say about war, i say about war? >> well, you know, i always wanted to make sure that this is movie -- this is a movie about following the are policy decision, whether that's a decision that's being made by or bya company politicians or what have you. it's not a movie about big statements. it's about individuals. and whether these experiences stronger or not. >> is writing film different from what you've been doing most life?r >> it is. yeah. it's a much more solitary

endeavor, which it's the last thing anyone wants to hear about, is the writer alone at the typewriter? you know, part of what i love about t.v. is the close collaboration and this is collaborative as well, ultimately, but it is different. >> it's also wonderful speech at the end of the movie, which i'm not going to do. but -- >> ha ha! >> oh, you're allowed. >> it sort of puts it in perspective, from -- it comes out of the voice of a soldier. it's just where we are in of --ntinuum >> the history of afghanistan. >> in this war and in afghanistan, and number of who came before us, the number of country, armies. and it's a boundary that people have been fighting over for a long time. >> it is. and the other thing, though, in is, we areat war reminded of it. yesterday at the white house, where the president gives the honor, you know, to a seal team 6, who had

literally jumped up to save him and reached up and grabbed the tourist trying to kill him. sense of extraordinary people who act, almost instinctively. different world. it's not so much thought but instinct and a sense of duty. also americans have been sacrificing themselves, you beginning of the country. it's sort of -- we have a strong military tradition. and i think that the way the moviery -- we showed the in washington last week, at the naval memorial. lot of military people there. and the reaction from them, as was different than the reactions we saw in new york it's just theynd identify with and can see that, it rings that some of true or that we got it right on some level. >> you did. some people look at this, and

they would ask this question. is it simply acting that turns you like to dod more things that have more of a dramatic aspect to it? >> i think, you know, that there are dramatic moments in this think any good story is going to have comedy and drama to it, because i feel real life does. i'm always suspect of any movie time. 100% drama all the >> where you get your money's worth of drama. me.ealistic to >> but we're also looking at a time, because of streaming, of hbo of the success and showtime and all of that, that the options for people who two of you do, and you do programming, is it's ever better than been. >> there are a lot of outlets. of --are a lot >> long form and short form. >> platforms. netflix.ave a show on >> netflix, yes. >> where do you go to see

netflix? go to your phone. >> ha ha! >> much success. manning. we'll be right back. stay with us. ♪

>> joe nocera is here. he is a columnist for the new york times. provocative piece in 2011 for the paper, subbed -- sunday magazine. it was titled, "let's start

paying college athletes." the article explored the the ncaa which generates billions of dollars each year but does not compensate its players. five years later, he's cowritten a book that reveals much more most one of america's powerful institutions and also those leading the charge for change. "indentured," the inside story of the rebellion against the ncaa. to have joe nocera, always, back at this table. >> thank you. >> the ncaa. i grew up right there. >> we all did. >> in the south. did. all >> i couldn't wait for everything the ncaa did. i mean, because i loved college sports. >> right. and i grew up in providence, so thes a huge fan of providence college friars. that's how i grew up. boston college. up, and evenowing beyond, you always had the sense that the ncaa were the white the people they were going after, like jerry tarkanian or dale brown were the

bad guys. into it and you really start to spend time on it. and you realize, actually, in ncaa were the -- ruthless,r-mad, vengeful organization. >> let's go through those. in many cases, the ncaa was a power-mad, ruthless, vengeful organization. charlie: let's go through those. power-met? joe: yeah. they created in enforcement mechanism and they also and mechanism and they also controlled tv rights. he was a my way or the highway guy. if you did not do things his way, you were on the blacklist. if you said something about the in an ncaa you do not like, and this is what happened to tarkanian, they go after you. charlie: they look to places where you are violating rules you in that they have created. joe: or they can make it up.

when tarkanian went to the you and university of las vegas, you they opened in investigation at unlv nine days after he took the job. how could they have violated his you rules in nine days? they did not like him. one of the reasons we know this is because tarkanian litigated for 20 years. there are people under oath who basically said, the investigators said to me, we are going to get him, run him out of college sports. the head investigator had to admit under oath that he called tarkanian a rug merchant. in he went on to be the head of division i. him and all the criticism in recent years has changed a little, but it still has incredible power over the

athletes who are basically 18, 19, 20 years old, who have no means to really fight back. charlie: here are the questions you posed in the "new york times." how can the ncaa ruin careers without due process or common fairness? how can it act so ruthlessly to in enforce rules that are so an enforce rules that are so petty, and why won't anyone stand up to violations of american justice? as joe: five years later and it drives me crazy. charlie: it really does make you angry. joe: it does. i would not go that far. [laughter] and him and i was at this table during the financial crisis, and i was not exactly a wallflower. i have noticed this with lawyers

getting involved with ncaa stuff -- you don't expect it. business fraud, volkswagen, this pops up all the time and you in become cynical about it. the first time you look into the ncaa and realize there is no due process and they can say anything they want about any athlete and there is nothing the athlete can do. the first time you see it, you are shocked. you can't believe in american institution can operate this way. out of that shot, in my case, comes anger. prologue tells a story about a player named ryan boatright. it was the way they treat her mother, a single black mom in illinois with four kits. they are harassing her and demanding every check she has written for the last four years and the reason is because her ex-con former boyfriend, as an act of vengeance, called up the ncaa and accuser about this the.

charlie: and it was not true? joe: will some of it was. a friend gave her money so she could accompany her son on college visits. charlie: a lot of those rules are crazy to most people. joe: even the president of the ncaa said some of our rules are idiotic. if you have a bagel, if you put cream cheese on it, it is against the rules. they can put cream cheese on it, but if you put an egg on it --i'm not making this stuff up. he sees himself as a reformer. he says he is hamstrung by his membership. the thing he could do that he does not want to do is that the internal culture needs to be blown up. he does not need the membership to do that.

it needs to become a more compassionate and more common-sensible place. charlie: towards the athletes that make up the games? joe: absolutely. charlie: they are slaves, you suggest. joe: i don't go that far. i say indentured. there is a difference. charlie: come on. when you use the word indentured, what comes with it? joe: they are to a large degree shackled. slavery is slavery. i can't quit the school. charlie: it is a far reach. joe: right. charlie: why did you use the word indentured? joe: indentured servants were people were indentured to somebody, they've got no money, they stayed until their tenure was up, and their boss pretty much controled them, but they could leave. there are three things that are offensive about this. one is everyone else is getting, all the adults are getting rich and the players are getting

nothing. the adults are coaches. charlie: the people getting rich are the universities. joe: no, the people -- charlie: how much do you think the university of alabama football brings to the university? joe: a lot. but nick sabin is the best in the world. charlie: i have not looked closely at all the argument they make, but they are coming here as athletes, but they are getting a life experience, in some cases they will go four years and get a degree, rarely in terms of some, but they, and they get some, and that is worth something.

joe: here is what i would say to that. 95% of them don't become trouble. the bargain university has made his we will give you education any better like. university has not lived up to that bargain. we all know that. charlie: argan in a meeting that if you don't play the sport -- bargain, in that few don't play the sport you are sought to play, you don't have access to the education the university offers? joe: no. ineligibility. look at north carolina. painful subject for you. charlie: it is. joe: if you think north carolina is the only college in the state with fake classes to keep athletes eligible -- charlie: it is awful.

joe: the bargain the universities make with the students, they do not the bargain. most of the athletes, their only window -- charlie: what is the part of the bargain, the university? joe: play for us, we will give you an education and the prospect of a better life. charlie: you say, look, pay them for what they are, but don't go way out of your way to educate them. just pay them. joe: i think, as a matter of fairness, they should get some money. charlie: just a matter of fairness that they should get money. i think you should be arguing hard they should figure out a way they can somehow get through this notion of giving young athletes some benefit for being at the university. joe: i totally agree with you. i also think they should get some money. i have a salary cap. charlie: $25,000? joe: i am not a complete market guy. you know. north carolina is just about to spend $25 million for an indoor practice facility for the football team.

you know, why do they do that? because they want to recruit. they want to show the glitter and glamour for the high school kids. look at this facility. with how amazing it is. oregon, the facility is beyond belief. i would argue that instead of spending hundreds of millions of dollars on the facility, spend some to recruit the athlete. i went to boston university because they gave me more scholarship money than anyone else. money was a factor in my decision to go to college. charlie: create a bidding war for college athletes? joe: absolutely. with limits. if kentucky says -- charlie: we will pay you 25, and we will pay you 25, and some college that has never made the

final 16 says we will pay you 40, -- there is no cap? joe: i have a salary cap, whether it is a $25,000 minimum for every player, and leave half the cap to recruit. i don't mean to be so complicated. the essence of the idea is there is nothing wrong. you're mentally blocked on this. there is nothing wrong with using money, as happens with any other students on the university, to attract players. there is nothing immoral about it. it is ok for lebron. it is ok for kobe. yet, it is somehow immoral? i think they should have agents. charlie: to represent them between high school and college? joe: every hockey player in college has an agent.

they don't talk about it, they don't get paid, but when a hockey player comes out of high school in canada, he has a series of complicated decisions. charlie: buzz integer calls the ncaa the country's most corrupt institution. joe: i would say the nra, but the ncaa is up there. charlie: you see them like you see the nra? joe: i would not go that far. charlie: taylor branch says the incident should be impaired compared to a plantation. joe: i will tell you something illegal. walter byers said it. he may be ncaa powerful from 1961 to 1986 and then turned against them and wrote a memoir in which he did overtly compare the ncaa to a plantation. charlie: that is a great story. why did he change his mind and said, the thing i created is -- joe: i believe he was the power-mad guy. he was in his 90's when i was working on this book and i tried like crazy to get an interview.

he would not talk to me. this is the only question i wanted to ask him. why did you change your mind? he would not answer. my theory -- charlie: what did his son say? joe: he wouldn't tell me, either. charlie: you did not do so well. joe: i completely failed on this coming you are right. it was in 1984 supreme court ruling that took away the television rights and give it to the schools. you could only be on twice a year, and only make so much money, so one. charlie: whatever is on tv, we get a piece of it. joe: basically half of byers'

power, he lost half of his power. i think he turned against the ncaa because he lost a lot of his power. charlie: who instituted it? joe: university of oklahoma and texas were the prime drivers. just as the power five in the last few years have taken more control, in the old days there was something called the cfl that made up the big football schools that were fighting the ncaa. charlie: bill friday, former president of the university of north carolina was a great friend of mine. i spoke at his memorial service. he used to say to me every six months, why are you not doing stuff about corruption in college athletics? joe: he was a great man. he founded the knight

foundation, but he failed. everyone that was trying to keep academics as a primary has failed because football is too big a business, there is too much money at stake, and the board of trustees all think a are jerry jones. they care more about the football team than the history department. how about that one? charlie: really, joe? [laughter] joe: i have seen it enough time. charlie: because of the amount of money it rings in. joe: everybody wants to win. i want to win, too. the friars are in the top 20 for the first time in 10 years. you think i'm not following that? charlie: here is what is interesting -- whether reform can come out of this that will really benefit both the university -- i would like to

see something for where every scholarship they give to an athlete, they have to give a scholarship to a computer nerd. joe: i'm for that. charlie: the smartest young physicist in high school today and give him the best. they may get that education anyway because there are all sorts of scholarships available for students. joe: reform is tough. the legal system as declared the ncaa rules in violation of antitrust and yet the legal system has been unwilling to overturn an change anything. the union drive, which we recount, a chapter that ben wrote, about the northwestern union drive basically failed, and to tell you the truth, it will sound more radical than things i have said, but the model is the missouri football team from last fall. charlie: what they did was so amazing and to be admired. joe: the issue was racist on

campus. charlie: football team as he unit took a stand. joe: the protest went on six weeks. the football team said we will go on strike and the president resigned in six hours. charlie: did ever university present take notice? joe: i bet they did. i know it is hard to cut us they are 19-year-old kids with their future in front of them, but if one team would refuse to come out for the final four, it would change within hours. unlv almost did it. they had a secret plan to go on strike and duke beat them. name another way that duke has caused trouble. [laughter] charlie: there is so much more to this story and to love joe is to know the passion he brought to the peace that led to the book.

"indentured" written with ben strauss. joe: young, talented "new york times" contributor and he will have a big future. charlie: and so will you. joe: [laughter] if i'm not too old. ♪

charlie: i want to talk about new businesses and markets and technologies that you are in, but not in a big way. the business market. in september, you announce the ipad pro. said to be in initial salvo, even though you make some money in the business market. you are primarily a consumer products company. where is apple going in the business market? tim: let me explain something that i think is maybe our best-kept secret. here is the secret. not this september quarter, which we just finished, i can't talk about the results, but if you back june up the previous 12 months -- charlie: ending in june of 2014. tim: 2015. our revenues from enterprise

were about $25 billion. charlie: this is a company that revenue a year is over $200 billion? tim: 25 serious business. if you look at the growth of it, it is coming from a very small number not many years ago. the growth is incredible. what are we seeing? we are seeing people say, wait a minute. products are employees want, iphones, ipods, and max, and forward-thinking ceos are thinking, give them products that make them more productive and empower them. we put a significant emphasis on making sure we have enterprise features in our operating system. we have been doing that for years. with our partnership with cisco, you are seeing this begin to take traction. i think we are also in the early stages of this.

charlie: ok, but what are you doing? selling products that they can use in a business enterprise sector? tim: yeah. they are products that you and i see as consumer products. you think the ipad is a consumer product, but it is not really. it is a business product. charlie: you are going to introduce consumer products into the business market? that does not sell i can apple challenge to me. tim: that is not all we are doing. if you think about what makes a process working business, it is do you have the right application? where there has been an explosion of access for consumers, the business market is lacking. what we are doing with ibm and cisco is working on vertical applications for unique jobs in the enterprise. i know this sounds strange,

mobility is kind of a new concept for a lot of enterprises. the penetration of mobility in the enterprise is very small. when we look at this, we see enormous opportunity to change the way people work, just like the way we changed consumers' lives. we would like to make people's daily work better. charlie: the ipad pro will play into this? tim: yes, but the other ipads as well as the macintosh. charlie: that brings us to the car. tim: [laughter] you keep going back there. charlie: obviously you care about it, otherwise i would not read all the stories about it. google is your primary competition, you have said, and they are passionate about a car.

obviously, elon musk is passionate about a car. why wouldn't tim cook be passionate about a car? because he is. why do we need the ambition to do something big in a car? tim: we have a program in a car called car play which makes it seamless to use your iphone in a car. charlie: it seems that apps will have an increasing role in technology. some say it is going to replace search engines. tim: definitely, when you use apps, search becomes different. search becomes quite different in some cases. charlie: better? tim: it is up to the user to judge better, but in most cases if you search today, you might get 2 million responses or maybe

even more than that, a gazillion responses. you probably don't want that, right? you want to know what you want to know. you want something very specific to come up. i think that is what the future of search holds, trying to give you what you really want, not this laundry list of things for you to -- charlie: in a consumable manner. what is going to happen to get us there? tim: lots of technology. there are many companies that know a lot about search more than we know, i am sure. charlie: when you look around the corner, what is shaping the corner?

tim: there are a lot of things shaping the corner today. this app explosion, shaping the corner, a.r. is shaping the corner, v.r. is shaping the corner. in the automotive world, autonomous vehicles driverless vehicles are shaping it. charlie: artificial intelligence? tim: ai, very much machine learning. the trick is not to see just what is shaking it, but how you can use those things and productize them into things people want, and they may not know it today, but they want. it is not just seeing what the underlying technologies or capabilities are, the finding way to productize them. that is the magic of the company. ♪

mark: let's begin with a check of your bloomberg first word news. presidential candidate ben carson is leaving the campaign trail, speaking today at the conservative political action committee can't in maryland. carson said he is suspending his bid to the white house. he raised more money than any other republican contender, 58 million dollars since he began his bid last may.