announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: "whiskey tango foxtrot" is the new film starring tina fey. it is based on journalist, kim barker's acclaimed 2011 memoir "the taliban shuffle." tina fey stars as a cable news copywriter who upends her life when she volunteers to becoming war reporter in afghanistan. the "new yorker" calls it a blustery, comic drama. here is the trailer for "whiskey tango foxtrot." >> are you ok? >> i have to pee.

>> media asset must be dumping out. >> i'm just getting my pants on. >> the network needs reporters on the ground in afghanistan. you folks are all of the unmarried personnel in the bureau. are you going to be joining in? >> the travel, or the crying? how many people do you need? >> he says, welcome to afghanistan. >> this is where the foreign reporters live. >> welcome to the fun house. >> my god, it's so nice to have another woman in the house. in afghanistan, you are seriously hot. in new york, you're like a six or seven, here you are like a nine, borderline 10. >> what are you, like a 15? >> yeah. >> this is an extreme environment. i have seen people with actual experience make bad decisions here.

>> you should let me interview you. >> i do not know you. how can we get to know each other. >> [laughter] >> excellent. >> it is bananas. i don't think i can do this. >> we are all here for a reason? >> i wanted out of my job. i wanted out of my mildly-depressive boyfriend. >> what are we doing? >> i wanted to blow things up. >> that is the most american, white-lady story i have ever heard. >> i need a story. i need to get something on the air. >> that is too dangerous. >> i think that would be great, that kind of exposure. >> pretty great for you, too. >> get some. >> last night. what happened? >> the usual. kabul happened. >> today kabul's first licensed

female driver hits the road. that sucks for women. charlie: joining me is tina fey, screenwriter robert carlock, and one of the producers, lorne michaels. i am pleased to have all of them here. how did this get started? tina: i'm almost embarrassed to admit that i became aware of the book because someone forwarded me that times review in which they said kim barker presents herself almost as a tina fey-like character. then i got the book. >> your first book. [laughter] tina: and then i had somebody read it to me. the book was really good and really funny and interesting and well-written and well-observed and about a woman having these darkly comic experiences. charlie: did you turn to robert?

tina: i went to lorne first, and said, i think this might be a movie. charlie: what did you say, wise man? [laughter] lorne: i said i knew a studio -- i knew that paramount was looking for a taliban comedy. [laughter] charlie: they called you up and said, i need a taliban comedy. tina: we have to beat ben stiller to this. charlie: so you bought the book rights? tina: i knew that robert was the only person smart enough to do all the research necessary, not only to adapt the book, but about the research about the military and afghan culture and all the things that were required of this adaptation. charlie: and you like kim barker? tina: i do. she is smart. charlie: you changed it to kim baker. tina: yeah. budget cuts. we could not afford the "r." lorne: all the money is on the screen. charlie: what does that mean? robert: whiskey tango foxtrot.

charlie: this is like a writing session at "snl?" tina: like this, but 16 hours . and eventually there is a fistfight. charley: and more coffee, and what else? charlie: is it a comedy? is it a drama? is it history? lorne: i think that before things were just sold as comedies or just as action pictures. when i was very young we saw the movie "m.a.s.h." and i don't know how you would describe it. whether it was a comedy, a drama, whatever. it is good. i think this is good too. charlie: you went to new mexico to make it. and the cast -- lorne: incredible. tina: billy bob thornton playing the general, martin freeman playing a scottish photographer, and margot robbie plays an idol.

charley: she is 15, and you are 10. tina: that is generous, by the way, having seen her at the oscars. she is a 20. charlie rose: did you watch "mash" when you are writing this russian mark -- when you are writing this? robert: i watched "m.a.s.h." looking for permission. to do the kind of movie lorne is talking about. kim's book has given a lot of freedom to save these are people living in unusual circumstances but funny things happen. they still say funny things. charlie rose: especially in those circumstances. lorne: you want to get the tone right. you want the people who lived it to like the movie, and say that's the way it was. , charlie: have you heard from people who lived it? lorne: yeah, -- tina: kim's friends. lorne: we had a screening a couple of weeks ago, maybe last week.

charlie: does kim baker get addicted to war? does she find this better than what you were doing as a copywriter or producer? tina: it is the theme in the book. the idea that people get addicted to this adrenaline lifestyle. and for sure, kim, and the movie she went over there thinking she , would be there for three months. she stays for three years. she finds herself like a junkie chasing the next story and victory, and starts to realize maybe it is a dangerous lifestyle to live forever. charlie rose: what is interesting about it, when you go to any hotel in a war zone, that is where they all hang out. you see the same people. they go from sarajevo to -- lorne: the closer to those

people in a certain way that you would hear about army buddies growing up. once you have been through that kind of experience, you're more in common with the people that you are working with and probably anybody else. at least you can't talk about what you went through with any other people. robert: one thing that people said about what the addiction is like, one aspect is you get addicted to not having to live a regular life. you can say, no, i'm not going to that christening in new jersey i'm in baghdad. , tina: it seems extremely important right now. charlie: and they are. -- robert: and they are. charlie rose: i mentioned earlier, the great war reporter. he is off all the time. he cannot resist going there. he knows he is good at the story and you want to do what you do well. that is part of the magnitude. lorne: you are aware of who else is there and who has a deadline . and who is going to do the story

. and everyone from all those other countries as well. it has a flavor to it. they all have nothing in common with local population. charlie: there is competition among reporters. in your case, it is margot robbie's character. tina: she plays tonya vanderpool, someone that my character idolizes and they become fast friends, but there is a healthy competition that eventually turns into maybe less healthy competition towards the end. she starts to realize that tonya is putting herself and others in danger in ways that are not good for anybody. charlie: this is where kim is meeting margot robbie. >> can i ask you a favor? feel free to say no. >> sure. >> i hate to bring this up. i feel rude asking -- can i have sex with your security guy?

>> by all means. >> don't just say that to be polite. >> i'm not. that would never happen, so you are good. >> you can have it. he is a serious piece of ass. >> that's nice. you are like a 6, 7 in new york? here, you are a nine, borderline 10. >> what are you here, like a 15? >> yeah. charlie: way back when in the late 1990's when she was at "snl," can you see who will go to the screen, will be performers, more than just writers, not that "just" should ever be next to the word writer. [laughter] lorne: tina had been a performer before she got there. she came in as a writer and rose up.

not annoyingly. charlie rose: do you see it early whether they had been a , performer or not? lorne: yes, but you can also see confidence, when people have had enough time on stage or are feeling good about how they are out there. charlie: like conan, you saw something, even though he had been a writer not a performer. , lorne: he had been in the groundlings, but his dream was to be a performer. whereas robert's dreams have all been met. [laughter] charlie: i don't want to have to sound like it is -- that being a writer is not just great. so if you have that skill. so if you have that skill as much as tina and seth, and all the people we know. lorne: i think there are people

who are very good at it that don't enjoy it. charlie: like? lorne: there are -- comedy is filled with people that are funny and miserable all the time. charlie rose: in life, or comedy? lorne it is not something that : brings them joy. they do it and they are good at it, but they are not fun to be around. comedy is probably too important to be left to professionals. when you are around people who are funny, the thing that makes it the most fun is that when you are around someone funny, they are funny. nothing makes people that do comedy laugh more than other people around the being funny. charlie: you said adam mckay was like that. tina: funniest man in the room. lorne: adam brought tina. tina: adam gave me my job, brought me to "snl" as a writer. we were in chicago at the same time. he was on stage. charlie: when you are the funniest person in the room, is it just off-the-cuff funny?

tina: yeah. in adam's case. lorne: it also helps when you are adam's size. a little intimidation. [laughter] charlie: do you want to direct films? robert: i would like to direct the film. tina: charlie is going to be cut out of this. please just restate the question. robert: i thought this was just going to be me. why did you say that? charlie: so you could use it without me. robert: i was repeating the question to process the question. charlie: people always do that. robert: i'm sure. [laughter] who would do that? not a presidential candidate, we know that. i have directed a few television shows, and enjoy it, but it does eat you up. i like the idea of directing. it would have to cost someone else i don't want anyone house zero dollars. looking over my shoulder and wanting their money back. charlie: directing gets done,

but not costing zero dollars. charlie rose: is weekend update great training? tina: for many things, yes. for joke writing. i remember when i started working on weekend update when colin quinn was the host. i was a staff writer. a few of us, as a favor, were pulled in to try to road extra jokes -- right extra jokes, and try to write a joke that is contained in itself, it is a difficult thing. that is a great thing to learn. robert was a producer of weekend up date when jimmy and i did it. the thing that is the amazing gift about weekend update is you sit in front of the camera every week and you tell america, hi, i'm tina fey. the cast is working so hard, but they are in wigs and noses and even now as a viewer, sometimes i am like, is that kyle? who is that?

lorne: one of the things about update -- robert: we knew we were going to get our 10 minutes. it is an island in the show where the five or six of us knew we were going to get our 10 minutes. lorne: there were shows that ended at 10:30 and movies that ended at midnight. if you are just tuning in, you could catch that. the audience is already warmed up. the studio audience is already there you know what kind of , house it is, which makes it much easier than opening the show. charlie: if you want to see political satire, where do you see it other than "saturday night live?" lorne: on "the daily show" and certainly "key and peele" are doing good stuff. tina: john oliver. lorne: yes. doing it in a news format.

i am trying to think of -- i think there is something -- there is a certain ability, like -- likability that there was with will ferrell playing george w or dana playing. or darrell playing clinton, in order for it to work, there has to be some charm. you can't editorialize. you have to bring the person to life. if you are just editorializing them, and you disapprove of them, and you do not like them, and you're pointing at that in your performance it won't work. ,in a sense you have to commit , to making the person likable, even though whatever you feel personally is not that. trust that the writing make the -- the writing will make the other part clear. rose: was it easy? was at the end goal, to find

whatever you thought made something about this person charming or likable? tina: with sarah palin? we did it, what, eight years ago now? a lot of us wanting to figure out what is the joke? what is true about this whole situation? i was talking about chris rock and why i think he is a genius. let's take a situation and find something that is true that no one has noticed yet. that is what we're trying to do. we were trying to figure that out with her and mccain. robert: it is a player with such good cheer all the time. the take is not negative. charlie: there's a sense that you cannot wait to -- lorne: because if you are -- just scolding, there are no laughs and it is not fun. it is getting to make your own decision as the audience that we

are encouraging as opposed to here is an idiot. or here is somebody we admire. you think it did would come back? tina: at the end of the run eight years ago, i thought was probably -- i am at the age now that i was when she started. last time i played her, i thought, i look more like her now. lorne: she came back with darrell when palin endorsed trump. at the 40th anniversary, we had that as a question. she was of a 40th anniversary show. jerry seinfeld doing q and a and she asked him something, -- tina: i said how much would you pay me to come back and run it? lorne: and then donald trump. it is prescient. charlie rose: roll tape. tina: thank you, iowa. i wanted to take a break from my

full-time career of writing things on facebook to fly down here and lend my support to the next president of the united states, donald j trump. [applause] >> hey, america. isn't she great? she's the total package. smart, legs, yelling, everything. i haven't seen a woman this impressive since jeb bush. tina: i'm here for you teamsters, you farmers and charmers whether you , are a mom, two broke girls, three men and a baby, or a rock 'n roll or, holy roller pushing strollers through , bowlers with an abscess molar. >> she is a firecracker. she is a real pistol. she's crazy, isn't she? tina: [shouting]

charlie rose: that is talent, isn't it? tina: i think about making that jacket. the snl wardrobe had to make that jacket. they could not find it. charlie rose: you said something about voice in the beginning. creating the character is crucial. tina: i think so. charlie: you just practice. tina: i would watch that over and over and try to match pitch. i try to do things that i've seen darrell hammond do for years, who is so gifted at that stuff. charlie: you said genius for chris. chris is generally considered to be a genius at this. lorne: he is the real thing, yeah. charlie: is it delivery? lorne: he will tell unpleasant things to an audience that really isn't interested in hearing it, but he will do it with charm and it will be truly funny. it isn't always popular. he just goes into the areas

where it is easy to with the crowd up to agree with you or , find whatever it is you want to hear and tell them that. he is a truth teller, and certainly in both communities. he does not spare anyone. charlie: you gave him high marks for the oscars? lorne: yeah. charlie: this is another clip from the film. billy bob thornton and tina fey. >> are you familiar with the term 4-10-4? it refers to women who are four 's back home, and they become 10 when they ship out, and you are a four when you get back home. tina: are you saying i am a four? >> you are wearing an orange backpack. i have seen people with actual experience make bad decisions here. while you are outside the wire with my men, you will in no way distract them, understood? >> are you asking me not to sleep with your soldiers? >> not soldiers, marines.

you're not here to perform jobs of any type with my marines clear copy, ms. baker? , >> copy. out as, we will get you soon as we find a ride. in the meantime captain stern , will see to it that you get a wet hooch. >> what? >> it is a tent with a shower, unless you prefer a dry hooch. >> i would not, sir. charlie: what does it say about war, this film? robert: i always wanted to make sure this is a movie about people following the policy decisions, whether that is a decision made by a media company or politicians or what have you. , it is not a movie about big statements. it is about individuals and whether these experiences make a -- us stronger or not. charlie: is writing film different from what you have been doing most of your life? robert: it is, yeah. it is a much more solitary

endeavor, which is the last thing anyone wants to hear about, the writer alone at the typewriter. part of what i love about tv is the close collaboration, and this was collaborative as well, ultimately, but it is different. lorne: there is also a wonderful speech at the end of the movie, which i'm not going to do -- [laughter] charlie rose: you are allowed. lorne -- but it puts it in : perspective because it comes out of the voice of a soldier. just where we are in the continuum of this war in afghanistan and the number of people who came before us from different countries and different armies. it is the boundary people have been fighting over or a long time. charlie: the other thing is that in terms of what we are reminded of yesterday at the white house,

where the president gave the medal of honor to a member of seal team six who literally jumped on top of someone as a -- to save them, and reached up and grabbed the terrorist try to kill them. it is the extraordinary sense of people who act instinctively. they are in a different world. it is not so much thought, but instinct. lorne: americans have been sacrificing themselves since the beginning of the country. we have a strong military tradition. we showed the movie in washington last week at the naval memorial and there were a lot of military people there. the reaction from there as an -- them as an audience with different from what we saw in new york and l.a. . they identify with and can see that some of it rings true or we got it right.

charlie: some people look at this and they would ask this question. is it simply acting that turns you on, or would you like to do more things that have a dramatic aspect? tina: i think that there are dramatic moments in this movie, but i think any good story is going to have comedy and drama to it because i feel that real life does. i am suspect of any movie that is 100% drama, all the time. not realistic to me. charlie: are we also looking at a time because of streaming, because of success of hbo and showtime and all that, that the options for people who produce it, programming is bigger and better than it has been? tina: there are a lot of outlets. charlie: for longform and short form? lorne: they have a show on netflix.

where do you go to see netflix? tina: you go to your phone. lorne: oh. charlie: thank you. tina: thank you for having us. charlie: we will be right back. stay with us. ♪ . .

>> joe nocera is here. he is a columnist for the "new york times." he wrote a provocative piece in 2011 titled "let's start paying

college athletes." the article explored the inequity of the ncaa which generates billions of dollars each year, but does not compensate its players. five years later, he has co-written a book that reveals more about one of america's most powerful institution and is one of the voices leading for change. it is called "indentured." the inside story of the rebellion against the ncaa. the ncaa? i grew up in the south. joe: we all did. charlie: i could not wait. joe: i grew up in providence. i was a huge fan of the friars. when we were growing up, and even beyond, you had the sense that the ncaa were the white ats and the people going after

them like jerry tarkanian or ale brown were the bad hats. you look into it and spent some time on it and you realize, actually, in many cases, the ncaa was a power-mad, ruthless, vengeful organization. charlie: let's go through those. power-met? joe: yeah. they created in enforcement mechanism and they also ontrolled tv rights. he was a my way or the highway guy. if you did not do things his way, you were on the blacklist. if you said something about the ncaa you do not like, and this is what happened to tarkanian, they go after you. charlie: they look to places where you are violating rules that they have created. joe: or they can make it up. i know that sounds shocking. when tarkanian went to the university of las vegas, they

opened in investigation at unlv nine days after he took the job. how exactly could he have violated their rules in nine days? but they didn't like him. they went to get him. one of the reasons we know this is because tarkanian litigated for 20 years. there are people under oath who basically said, the investigators said to me, we are going to get him, run him out of college sports. the head investigator had to admit in congressional testimony that he called tarkanian a rug merchant. he went on to be the head of division i. had a very, very long career. all the criticism in recent years has changed a little, but it still has incredible power over the athletes who are basically 18, 19, 20 years old, who have no means to really defend themselves and fight back.

charlie: here are the questions you posed in the "new york times." how can the ncaa ruin careers without due process or common fairness? how can it act so ruthlessly to enforce rules that are so petty, and why won't anyone stand up to violations of american values and american justice? joe: five years later and it drives me crazy. charlie: it really does make you angry. oe: it does. charlie: business fraud? joe:i would not go that far. [laughter] i was at this table during the financial crisis, and i was not exactly a wallflower. i have noticed this with lawyers getting involved with ncaa stuff -- you don't expect it. business fraud, volkswagen, this pops up all the time and you become cynical about it. the first time you look into the ncaa and realize there is no due process and they can say

anything they want about any athlete and there is nothing the athlete can do. the first time you see it, you are shocked. you can't believe in american institution can operate this way. out of that shock, in my case, at least, comes anger. prologue tells a story about a player named ryan boatright. it was the way they treat her mother, a single black mom in illinois with four kits. they are berating her and harassing her and demanding every check she has written for the last four years and the reason is because her ex-con former boyfriend, as an act of vengeance, called up the ncaa and accused her of a bunch of stuff. charlie: and it was not true? joe: some of it was true.

a friend gave her money so she could accompany her son on college visits. charlie: a lot of those rules are crazy to most people. joe: even the president of the ncaa said some of our rules are idiotic. the rule about if you have a bagel it's ok but if you put cream cheese on it, that is against the rules. they can put cream cheese on it, but if you put an egg on it --i'm not making this stuff up. he sees himself as a eformer. he says he is hamstrung by his membership. i can't do anything without the members agreeing to it. the thing he could do that he does not want to do is that the internal culture needs to be blown up. he does not need the membership to do that. it needs to become a more compassionate and more common-sensible place. charlie: towards the athletes that make up the games? joe: absolutely. charlie: they are slaves, you suggest. joe: i don't go that far. i say indentured.

there is a difference. charlie: come on. when you use the word indentured, what comes with it? joe: they are to a large degree shackled. lavery is slavery. they can quit the school. they can quit athletics. charlie: it is a far reach. joe: right. charlie: why did you use the word indentured? joe: indentured servants were people were indentured to somebody, they've got no money, they stayed until their tenure was up, and their boss pretty much controled them, but they could leave. there are three things that are offensive about this. one is everyone else is getting, all the adults are getting rich and the players are getting nothing. the adults are coaches. charlie: the people getting rich

are the universities. joe: no, the people -- charlie: how much do you think the university of alabama football brings to the university? oe: a lot. charlie: exactly. joe:but nick sabin is the best in the world. why shouldn't the players get a piece of that is what i'm saying. charlie: i have not looked closely at all the argument they make, but they are coming here as athletes, but they are etting a life experience, in some cases they will go four years and get a degree, rarely in terms of some, but they, and they get some, and that is worth something. joe: here is what i would say to that. 95% of them don't become trouble.

the bargain the university has made is we will give you an education and a better life. the university has not lived up to that bargain. e all know that. arlie: the bargain meaning that if you don't play the sport you are sought to play, you don't have access to the education the university offers? joe: no. ineligibility. look at north carolina. painful subject for you. charlie: it is. joe: if you think north carolina is the only college in the state with fake classes to keep athletes eligible -- which teach them nothing. charlie: it is awful. joe: the bargain the universities make with the students, they don't keep their end of the bargain. and the second thing -- most of the athletes, their only

window -- charlie: what is the part of the bargain, the university? joe: play for us, we will give you an education and the prospect of a better life. charlie: you say, look, pay them for what they are, but don't go way out of your way to educate them. just pay them. joe: i think, as a matter of fairness, they should get some money. as a matter of fairness. charlie: just a matter of fairness that they should get money. i think you should be arguing hard they should figure out a way they can somehow get through this notion of giving young athletes some benefit for being at the university. joe: i totally agree with you. i do agree with that. i also think they should get some money. i have a salary cap. charlie: $25,000? joe: i am not a complete market guy. you know. north carolina is just about to spend $25 million for an indoor practice facility for the football team. $25 million.

you know, why do they do that? because they want to recruit. they want to show the glitter and glamour for the high school kids. if you come to north carolina, ook at the facility. oregon, the facility is beyond belief. i would argue that instead of spending hundreds of millions of dollars on the facility, spend some to recruit the athlete. i went to boston university because they gave me more scholarship money than anyone else. money was a factor in my decision to go to college. charlie: create a bidding war for college athletes? joe: absolutely. with limits. with limits. charlie: if you have a cap on it, it is a big limit. joe:if kentucky says -- charlie: we will pay you 25, and we will pay you 25, and some college that has never made the final 16 says we will pay you 40, -- there is no cap? joe: i have a salary cap, whether it is a $25,000 minimum

for every player, and leave half the cap to recruit. i don't mean to be so complicated. the essence of the idea is there is nothing wrong. you're mentally blocked on this. there is nothing wrong with using money, as happens with any other students on the university, to attract players. there is nothing immoral about it. it is ok for lebron. it is ok for kobe. who went directly from high school to the pros. yet, it is somehow immoral? i think they should have agents. charlie: to represent them between high school and college? joe: every hockey player in college has an agent. they don't talk about it, they don't get paid, but when a hockey player comes out of high school in canada, he has a series of complicated decisions that he has to make. charlie: buzz integer calls the

ncaa the country's most corrupt institution. joe: i would say the nra, but the ncaa is up there. charlie: you see them like you see the nra? joe: i would not go that far. charlie: taylor branch says the incident should be impaired compared to a plantation. joe: i will tell you something unbelievable. walter byers said it. he may be ncaa powerful from 1961 to 1986 and then turned against them and wrote a memoir in which he did overtly compare the ncaa to a plantation. and made a lot of the same recommendations that people like me and taylor are making now. charlie: that is a great story. why did he change his mind and said, the thing i created is -- joe: i believe he was the power-mad guy. he was in his 90's when i was working on this book and i tried

like crazy to get an interview. i even went to his son. he would not talk to me. this is the only question i wanted to ask him. why did you change your mind? he would not answer. my theory -- charlie: what did his son say? joe: he wouldn't tell me, either. charlie: you did not do so well. joe: i completely failed on this completely, you are right. it was in 1984 supreme court ruling that took away the television rights and give it to the schools. he used to control the television rights. you could only be on twice a year, and only make so much money, so one. charlie: whatever is on tv, we get a piece of it. oe: basically half of byers' power, he lost half of his power. he was power hungry.

i think he turned against the ncaa because he lost a lot of his power. charlie: who instituted it? joe: university of oklahoma and texas were the prime drivers. charlie: big football powers. joe: just as the power five in the last few years have taken more control, in the old days there was something called the cfl that made up the big football schools that were fighting the ncaa. charlie: bill friday, former president of the university of north carolina was a great friend of mine. i spoke at his memorial service for him and loved him. he used to say to me every six months, why are you not doing stuff about corruption in college athletics? joe: he was a great man. e founded the knight commission which was an effort to try and keep academics first and foremost, but he failed. he failed. everybody whows trying to de-emphasize sports or keep

academics as a primary has failed because football is too big a business, there is too much money at stake, and the board of trustees all think a are jerry jones. they care more about the football team than the history department. how about that one? charlie: really, joe? [laughter] joe: i have seen it enough time. charlie: because of the amount f money it rings in. joe: everybody wants to win. i don't blame them. i want to win, too. the friars are in the top 20 for the first time in 10 years. you think i'm not following that? charlie: here is what is interesting -- whether reform can come out of this that will really benefit both the university -- i would like to see something for where every scholarship they give to an athlete, they have to give a scholarship to a computer nerd. joe: i'm for that. charlie: the smartest young

physicist in high school today and give him the best. they may get that education anyway because there are all sorts of scholarships available for students. joe: reform is tough. the legal system as declared the ncaa rules in violation of antitrust and yet the legal system has been unwilling to overturn an change anything. the union drive, which we recount, a chapter that ben wrote, about the northwestern union drive basically failed, and to tell you the truth, it will sound more radical than things i have said, but the model is the missouri football team from last fall. charlie: what they did was so amazing and to be admired. joe: the issue was racist on campus. charlie: football team as he unit took a stand. joe: the protest went on six weeks. the football team said we will go on strike and the president

resigned in six hours. -- 36 hours. if you want to change the system -- charlie: did ever university present take notice? joe: i bet they did. i know it is hard to cut us they are 19-year-old kids with their future in front of them, but if one team would refuse to come out for the final four, it would change within hours. unlv almost did it. in the 1990's. charlie: that was before they got beat by duke. joe: they had a secret plan to go on strike and duke beat them. name another way that duke has caused trouble. [laughter] charlie: there is so much more to this story and to love joe is to know the passion he brought to the peace that led to the book. "indentured" written with ben strauss. joe: young, talented "new york times" contributor and he will

have a big future. charlie: and so will you. [laughter] joe: if i'm not too old. thank you, charlie. charlie: back in a moment. stay with us. snotes

charlie: i want to talk about new businesses and markets and technologies that you are in, but not in a big way. the business market. in september, you announce the

ipad pro. said to be in initial salvo, even though you make some money in the business market. you are primarily a consumer products company. where is apple going in the business market? tim: let me explain something that i think is maybe our best-kept secret. ere is the secret. not this september quarter, which we just finished, i can't talk about the results, but if you back june up the previous 12 months -- the previous 12 months from ending in june. charlie: ending in june of 2014. tim: 2015. our revenues from enterprise were about $25 billion. charlie: this is a company that revenue a year is over $200 billion? tim: 25 serious business. if you look at the growth of it,

it is coming from a very small number not many years ago. the growth is incredible. what are we seeing? we are seeing people say, wait a inute. products are employees want, iphones, ipods, and max, and forward-thinking ceos are thinking, give them products that make them more productive nd empower them. we put a significant emphasis on making sure we have enterprise features in our operating system. we have been doing that for years. with our partnership with cisco, you are seeing this begin to take traction. i think we are also in the early stages of this. charlie: ok, but what are you doing? selling products that they can use in a business enterprise sector?

tim: yeah. they are products that you and i see as consumer products. you think the ipad is a consumer product, but it is not eally. it is a business product. charlie: you are going to introduce consumer products into the business market? that does not sell i can apple challenge to me. tim: that is not all we are doing. if you think about what makes a process working business, it is do you have the right application? where there has been an explosion of access for consumers, the business market s lacking. -- lagging. there is only a few. what we are doing with ibm and cisco is working on vertical applications for unique jobs in the enterprise. i know this sounds strange, mobility is kind of a new concept for a lot of enterprises.

the penetration of mobility in the enterprise is very small. when we look at this, we see enormous opportunity to change the way people work, just like the way we changed consumers' lives. we would like to make people's daily work better. charlie: the ipad pro will play into this? tim: yes, but the other ipads as well as the macintosh. charlie: that brings us to the car. [laughter] tim: you keep going back there. charlie: obviously you care about it, otherwise i would not read all the stories about it. google is your primary competition, you have said, and they are passionate about a car. obviously, elon musk is passionate about a car. why wouldn't tim cook be passionate about a car? because he is.

[laughter] why do we need the ambition to do something big in a car? tim: we have a program in a car called car play which makes it seamless to use your iphone in a car. charlie: it seems that apps will have an increasing role in echnology. you said clearly television. some say it is going to replace search engines. tim: definitely, when you use apps, search becomes different. search becomes quite different in some cases. charlie: better? tim: it is up to the user to judge better, but in most cases if you search today, you might get 2 million responses or maybe even more than that, a gazillion responses.

you probably don't want that, right? you want to know what you want to know. you want something very specific to come up. i think that is what the future of search holds, trying to give you what you really want, not this laundry list of things for ou to -- charlie: in a consumable manner. what is going to happen to get us there? tim: lots of technology. there are many companies that know a lot about search more than we know, i am sure. charlie: when you look around the corner, what is shaping the corner? tim: there are a lot of things shaping the corner today. this app explosion, shaping the orner, a.r. is shaping the corner, v.r. is shaping the corner. in the automotive world,

electric vehicle and autonomous vehicles driverless vehicles are shaping it. charlie: artificial intelligence? tim: ai, very much machine learning. very much, machine learning. the trick is not to see just what is shaking it, but how you can use those things and productize them into things people want, and they may not know it today, but they ant. it is not just seeing what the underlying technologies or capabilities are, the finding way to productize them. that is the magic of the company. ♪

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