john: i'm john heilemann. mark: and i'm mark halperin. and "with all due respect to donald trump's concerns about michelle fields' pen -- >> ♪ >> a class for grenade. three clicks, it arms the views. another three disarms it. seems to me they were right. >> she had a pet in her hand, which secret service is not liking. is it a bomb? >> ♪

john: i'm trump, john d donald j trump. the man of mystery health campaign events across wisconsin to address the aftermath of his campaign's battery charges. we will talk about that in a moment, because yet another truck controversy broke out this afternoon. the republican front-runner said this about abortion at a town hall hosted by chris matthews. >> should the woman be punished for abortion? >> look -- >> this is not something to dodge. you say abortion is a crime. you have to deal with it. should abortion be punished? >> well, people in certain parts of the republican party and conservative republicans would say yes. >> but do you? >> i would say it is a very serious problem. it's -- are you going to say put them in jail?

>> no, i'm asking you. you say you want to ban it. >> i am pro-life. >> how do you ban abortion? >> you go back to a position like they had where people will perhaps go to illegal places. go toyou ban it, they someone out of medical school -- >> and how do you feel about the catholic church -- >> i accept the authority of mike catholic church. -- of my catholic church. here's my problem -- >> it's not funny. >> it's really not funny. what do you say to their church? makes their moral judgment and you are running for president of the united states. do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no? >> the answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yeah. >> 10 years, what?

>> i don't know. >> you take positions on everything else. >> it's a complicated position. mark: the political world has been reacting to that fascinating exchange today. john kasich was in queens, new york and he criticized his answer as "inappropriate." hillary clinton was in harlem giving a speech. she singled out trump for being intolerant, and was quick to respond via twitter when he said "just when you thought it couldn't get worse, horrific and telling." trump tried to walk back his remarks in two statements. "if congresss were to make abortion illegal, any state were permitted to ban abortion, the doctor or any other person performing this illegal act upon a woman would be held legally responsible, not the woman. the woman is a victim in this

case, as is the life in her womb. my position has not changed." this is swirling. it replaced yesterday's truck controversy. -- trump controversy. the bigger problem is this? john: it's a big problem on almost every level. you think about what this means for donald trump, it's the kind of talk -- when we talked about marco rubio's posture, this is just as bad. it's rhetorically horrible. he's in a position where he is not only at odds with democrats, with independence, at odds with a lot of conservative republicans who think that not the women but dr. should be penalized. he is trying to fix that, but the language in his attempt to fix it is patronizing and condescending. it's bad on every level and plays into this narrative that has been building for weeks, al

bad. mark: it's a very hard issue for those in the pro-life community because there is no good answer. conservatives will criticize me for asking the question, because it seems logical that if abortion is murder and a woman decides to have one, she should be punished, but it is politically untenable to say that, and now he's saying a woman should face penalties to saying that they are victims -- it's an old-fashioned view of women that will alienate a whole mother group of people. away, try to make it go but this shows that when he is pressed, as chris matthews did, he is still learning. john: yes. and matthews got him on this. he was trying to get more depth with him on this issue. it's acomplicated issue; complicated moral issue that presents lots of conundrums. but trump isn't sure what the pro-life position is. he's faltering, his grasp of

what his position should be. it is showing a certain underlying weakness, and as i said, it's a position that no one will ever forget. hillary clinton will let him forget it in any general election. mark: we say it all the time -- it won't hurt them in the short-term, but in the long-term. this could hurt him in the short-term. john: right. yes. all right. let's talk about the other trouble in trump land. a day after his campaign manager was charged with battery for grabbing a reporter, the front runner did not back down from his defense. last night during a cnn townhome, and all throughout the day, he offered this as his version of the events. >> she grabs me or hits me on the arm, i'm like this -- in my supposed to press charges? she has appended her hand which secret services and liking. i wasn't interviewed by the

police. they're in a town where i have a big investment. are these democrats or republicans? it was so minor. people are saying what is this all about? we have people in the middle east drowning people, and he rushes her? >> kind of country are they in -- >> they go to ted cruz, i would fire him. as president, you need somebody that will be loyal to your country. john: beyond this story, trump and his supporters are facing more damning headlines. police are searching for two men who allegedly sexually assaulted and peppers rate of 18-year-old at a trump town hall here in janesville, wisconsin. there's video that has a making the rounds. considering all the news out there, how is, do you think,

trump's take no prisoners strategy going? mark: if he wins wisconsin are wins new york big, over the short-term he'll pay. the danger is all the swirling controversies connect to the notion of women and his attitude toward women, and if he loses wisconsin, and if the exit polls show he has done badly with women, this is a narrative that will be tough for him to put down. got -- these all connect up. if you start with the heidi cruz tweet, that very unflattering picture, you move on to the campaign manager allegedly manhandling a female reporter, this pepper spraying thing, the atmosphere of violence, the abortion thing. this is all going to women and an atmosphere of barely restrained, and sometimes unrestrained, violence around trump.

it's disquieting, and he may or may not -- this is the first time it is starting to feel like trump is being battered. mark: the dirty little secret, even in republican nomination fights, is it's great to have the press on your side, but these stories are turning the press against him in a way that has not existed before, and it is a real danger for him. as long as he keeps winning, politically he is ok, but if he starts to suffer losses, the press will sense blood in the water and it will compound. troubled, andarly we will see how wisconsin voters feel about that. new state pull out of wisconsin; republicans and democrats. it shows ted cruz beating donald trump amongst the gop voters in the badger state. 40%-30%.

john kasich is in third with 21%. votersl found 80% of gop approve of the job governor scott walker is doing, endorsed ted cruz. side, bernieatic sanders is beating hillary clinton, 49%-45%. sanders beats all three republican candidates, loses to kasich, ties with cruz, and beats trump. let's go back to the republican members and pick apart this poll. what is the significance of scott walker's skyhigh approval rating amongst republicans now, with less than week to go with a primary? john: we said yesterday that we thought there was no doubt scott walker's endorsement of ted cruz would help a little bit. he's very popular with

republicans. he conferred his blessing on ted cruz. it may have been a signal that he is a k.g. political operator -- he is a cagey political operator. if he's ahead before the endorsement, you can't help but think you'll get a couple more points and maybe steal the whole primary. mark: and again, we don't want to make this dump on trump day, for trump is pretty successful and he is criticized, even in his own state. but criticizing walker on he has done on the eve of the primary may be a mistake. he is very popular. when we see walker on the trail with cruz, he has a chance to drive a message. let's talk about the democratic in the democratic survey. bernie sanders once again is doing better than hillary clinton against the republicans. is there significance to that or

does it have no meaning? john: well, i think it has some significance. it have significant that even hillary clinton's top aides will admit that when bernie sanders is in a state, he moves votes. right now, sanders will be here in wisconsin between now and tuesday; hillary clinton will not. if he's ahead, spending more days here that her, that could mean that he, too, like cruz, is virtually certain to win the primary. mark: i stopped trying to get my head around the net. if there were a governor's race in ohio between bernie sanders and john kasich, bernie would win. that's incredible. john: that's incredible. i find it baffling. there's a lot of talk about bernie sanders. we're old enough to remember the last month's debate, where they renewed their thousand to support the republican nominee. the matter who that turns out to be. but last night at a town hall,

not a single one of them would repeat that pledge. donald trump said he made that promise under the condition of the gop establishment would treat them fairly, which he doesn't think has happened. ted cruz in john kasich edged away from saying they would support the runner if he becomes the nominee. will cruz and kasich really, actually not support donald trump? mark: my head says they will, my gut says they won't. we've seen, amazingly, almost no republicans back trump. because things have gotten personal between cruz and trump, because k-6 feel the republican party does not match up with trump's, i think those people will be hugely -- if they hold out, they become more than symbolic, they become leaders of the stop trump movement, even if he becomes the nominee. john: if they are at all

intellectually and politically consistent, they will not end up supporting him as the nominee. if you listen to what john kasich and ted cruz have said about trump's infirmities, there's no way they can support him. i take them at their word, that they won't end up in his camp. mark: we hear things all the time in nomination fight, oh, that's person person's horrible. in this case, it's personal. john: yeah. mark: coming up, can the clintons build a big, beautiful firewall in new york? her live show at the apollo theater, after these words. ♪

mark: it has been a competitive empire state primary. next month, hillary clinton -- she were showing off her moves today on stage at the apollo theater in harlem, where she was introduced by chuck schumer. she put down her gotham city roots, made a hometown appeal. anything oraking anyone for granted. we're going to work for every vote in every part of this state, just like i did when i ran for the senate. because new yorkers to get chance on me, and i will never forget that. [cheering] you have always had my back,

and i have always tried to have yours. secretary said on our show yesterday that the clinton campaign is willing to do in new york debate. bernie sanders welcomed the news with a simple "let's do it." can the clinton campaign billed itself a starting, durable, new york firewall? mark: they are certainly trying, and this will be a huge battleground for nonwhite voters, trying to wrap up liberals. there is the rest of the state, though. you start to think how bernie sanders will do on long island, in the upstate. clinton is clearly taking the focus off wisconsin, moving it to new york. they will be fascinating to see the public polls that show her with the lead. let's see what happens when sanders spends time on the ground in new york. what happens when they have to dig in? tendsas i said before, he

to move numbers when he is on the ground. ofhas two weeks, two weeks clearfield between their wisconsin and new york primary. upstate new york could be sanders country; very white, a lot of independents. that's the part of new york state, upstate, with what looks like oklahoma. bernie sanders to give her a tough run, in the clintons are bracing, but i think it will be competitive. hillarye other thing is clinton has done a better job than bernie sanders of getting momentum from wins. ,f he wins wisconsin big can you take that momentum and make it work in new york? talk atcontinues to least as much about her potential republican rival as she those about sanders. she hit trump again today, making the case for new york

values of diversity, and tolerance, and inclusivity. the message echoed in a new tv ad she now has on the air. >> new york. 20 million people strong. no, we don't all look the same. we don't all sound the same, either. together, we do the biggest things in the world. so when some say we can solve america's problems by building walls, banning people based on their religion, and turning against each other, well, this is new york. we know better. i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message. new york, 20 million people strong. no, we don't all look the same. we don't all sound the same, either. but when we fall together, we do the biggest things in the world. so when some say we can solve america's problems --

good ad.t's a what strikes you about it? mark: what strikes me is that it looks like a general election and that you would run in new york if they were against you. the ways in which it pokes at it's ahe ways it's -- morning in america ad, and it has those allusions, playing to the notion that -- how much trouble she is in with wisconsin, she is still looking toward the general. mark: for hillary clinton to be donald trump, she needs to things that she doesn't have enough of. she needs energy and emotion in her message, and that message of inclusivity and tolerance, that inspires a lot of the coalition of people who supported barack obama. the other thing she needs is to turnout those kinds of voters

who she is losing to bernie sanders, particularly younger voters, who care a lot about that same message. she needs a motion that inspires the coalition of defendants; younger, less white voters, more female than male. every time donald trump does something that the democrats and intolerant, you can bet it will all be recycled if they face each other. john: yeah. i totally agree. and, gosh, today, with trump's comments on abortion, you can just see how a version of that andith minor tweaks certain emphases is the kind of thing that will be effective in the general against trump as she plays for the coalition of the ascended. when we come back, we have some voices of donald trump's rally, here in appleton today.

we will be right back. ♪

> if you re-watch the tape, her hand is by donald trump. the manager was trying to make sure she wasn't touching him. >> is that battery? by definition, touching someone visible battery. will he play this game all day? that a reporter touch donald? come on. let's put on our big boy pants. and whens aggressive, you get into rallies, you are going to get scuffled. to go out on black

friday sometime and then she will know pushing around is about. >> he didn't do anything wrong, and mr. trump is standing behind him. it'sgotten trump this far, hard for him to leave his team. >> i guess that's just who he is. i don'ts by things that think are right but he says things i like also. mark: those are some wisconsin voters who went to a trump rally. john, you were there. that's an interesting sampling of opinion. that was the mood like? john: well, people were happy to see donald trump. it wasn't a huge event. it reminded me of the hillary clinton event we saw in milwaukee, which is to say, by trump standards it was relatively small. they or happy to be there, very supportive, but he was very low energy. he seemed quite distracted. people were supportive of him,

but it was not an electric donald trump event. given the size of the crowd, there was an extraordinary mana security. maybe that had people trying to keep things calm. mark: does it seem like use playing to win, or do they recognize that this will be a tough one with cruz's strength? john: it's just like that hillary clinton event on monday. trump knows he's not going to win this. up next, our trump reporter roundtable. and ted cruz's the response to his abortion comments, right after these words from our sponsors. ♪

john: glory action to donald trump's abortion comments. ted cruz just put out a tech

statement that says "once again donald has demonstrated he hasn't seriously but through the issues. he will say anything just to get attention."' on the important issue of the sanctity of life, "being pro-life is not about the unborn child, it is also about the mother, creating a culture that respects and embraces life. we should not be talking about punishing women; we should and firm their dignity and the incredible gift they have to bring life into the world." joining us to talk about this and more is our trump reporter roundtable. a deal is this? you have been on trump now for a while. how does this rate compared to other trump flaps? buthis is a potential flap, it rates higher because it has to do with women. he said, you can already see how the democrats are going to go after him, how it could down

ballot republicans, hillary clinton immediately tweeted that this was horrific. i say it rates higher. john:you' you have covered republicans and democrats; you've been doing a fair amount of trump. that was your take on that event we were just at? >> i thought he was low-energy, too. i have not seen him ask the crowd to sit down. questions.ake any he didn't seem to have the same emotion that he usually does. john: is your sense -- we can read the wind and weather. does he feel like he will win the state? he used to be confident, that he doesn't -- but he doesn't feel that way to me now. >> i think will be a tough day for him. he pays a ton of attention to the polls, and there was a bad pull for him. he seemed a philosophical,

contemplative mood. he had another one earlier where he was musing on success and what matters in life, which is not typical trump. he may know things aren't going his way. john: what do you make of the way cruz is reacting? given that this week began, he was asked point-blank whether or not he has committed adultery, and now he's taking on a feminist posture in his response to trump, there's a little bit of a surreal quality. is this all good news for ted cruz? >> yeah, i think it's definitely good news for ted cruz. i think wisconsin can be a big moment for him. i don't think ted cruz can catch up, but if he can get close, the closer he gets, the easier the argument comes in cleveland. if he can give people in wisconsin -- it shrinks the gap, makes the argument easier. john: right.

mark: as you listen to trump today, since he has been in wisconsin, what is he focusing cruz?his criticism of which aspect of his record her personality is he talking about? >> well, he's going after cruz in a way that -- they are calling him the worst of both worlds. he's establishment now, which is butgative in trump's world, he's an establishment guy who can't get anything done. his record in washington is one of obstructionism, one that he has built a reputation around. on two bigo ied in negatives. and of course there is the lying ted that has been going around, and crowds have been picking up on that. as soon as he starts criticizing

cruz, members of the crowd will just chime in "lying ted." mark: lyin' ted. campaign -- normal and this is not a normal campaign -- if the campaign manager had been arrested, you would see discombobulated everywhere you look. as you look into the eyes of the candidate and the staff were traveling, do people seem thrown off? or can't you tell the difference? >> yeah. i mean, i think it was a tough day for them yesterday. you could see them being a little more disorganized than usual, not quite as responsive. but no, with other campaigns i'd cover -- i can't imagine a campaign mager touching a epicter -- it would be an meltdown and everything would be centered around this, but for them it was just a blip.

it was a huge story, but it was treated as one more thing to get through. ashely, we haven't seen a big media buy in wisconsin. any indication of whether they have a paid media strategy? >> that's a good question. i actually don't know. he pride themselves on relying on free media and earned media, -- ais might actually be lot of the anti-trump super pacs have gone up, where the strategy of him not paying to be on the air could end up hurting him. john: if ted cruz wins the state, and at the moment, it seems like a plausible outcome, can ted cruz bounce out of wisconsin and be a real competitor? >> i could see how he is going to compete with trump in new york. i think it is a longer game for cruz. a victory here in wisconsin

would mean more for him, so far behind in the polls. trump will hammer him on that for the next few weeks in new york. friends, thank you so much. we will talk to a trump senior adviser. if you are watching and washington, d.c., you can also listen to us on the radio, 99.1 fm. ♪

mark: joining us now from deep inside the beltway, senior adviser to donald trump, who

amongst other duties is part of a delegate wrangling squad being put together in advance of the rnc in cleveland. he's a former campaign manager for ben carson. welcome back. >> thank you. you're really missing the traffic in washington. mark: [laughter] if you are teaching a campaign management school, at gw at somewhere else, in the topic came -- what would happen in a presidential campaign if the campaign manager was arrested, what would your answer be, just in general? >> if i were teaching a campaign manager, the first thing i would do is burn every textbook they have. but, you know, i think they did the right thing. accusations which

the film doesn't verify. and donald trump says he will stand by him, and you have to have the credit, they - small staff with the least amount of money; they are doing something right. mark: we talked to last segment about how a "normal" campaign would be destabilized by this. as mr. trump or any other senior official address do on the campaign to update you on what this means or give you a pep talk? >> mr. trump said he will stand by cory. he always will be. they expect cory to be vindicated and continue on as normal. mark: let's switch over to the delegate issue. there is a conventional wisdom that you are back to knocked down full force, that the cruz campaign is super sophisticated, they know how to get delegates, they are at county conventions and state meetings and they will steal delegates.

what do you say to that? how sophisticated are you, and others, in trying to compete for the contest after the primaries? >> well, we've been doing this for decades as well. a -- theirird is effort is a little hit and miss. we're at it full-time now, and we will protect our delegates in the process. everyone is going to obey the rules. we'll make sure that happens. barry, my question for you on the delegate matter is mark suggested there was a conventional wisdom -- part of the reason why some people except that conventional wisdom, that the cruz campaign is more rumpnced than yours, mr. t says he will sue over what happened in louisiana with the cruz campaign coming in with

delegates even a they didn't win the primary. on what basis would there be a lawsuit? and how is it you guys came out the short and if you are as sophisticated as you say you are? >> this happened last weekend. 46 delegates were selected. after that, they were supposed to get together to determine who is going to be the delegation leader, who goes to the four standing committees. what happened was, of the 46, 27 of them got together, our delegates did not get invited, o put the cruz delegates into leadership positions. be challenging the certification of those delegates, which is not only subbing to do with a judge, but is litigation with the rnc, which goes through the rnc

committee and eventually to the th convention. john: barry, a contested convention -- one of the things that anybody who is in contention to be the nominee, they are going to make the argument that they are the most electable; they can win a general election. how much will it undercut the arguments he will have to make in that regard with donald trump says things like he said today about abortion and women being punished in a scenario where abortion was outlawed in america? >> well, electability is that shiny thing that everybody talks about, but the election is in today; that's the problem. john kasich may beat hillary clinton today in the snapshot, but go through the fall campaign and that will probably not be the case. donald trump is a fighter. he has the resources. the most important thing that is happening is this huge migration

of democrats to the republican party. we have seen over 50,000 democrats switch parties in ohio, michigan, everywhere. that is making the base bigger than it has ever been. after a primary, republicans come back together, and you will see the numbers change a great deal. it's not a unique phenomenon; it happens all the time. --you go back and look at rodney was down 12 points, 11 g to theowi ton convention. mark: abortion is not an issue that mr. trump stresses, but he has now addressed it three times a day. i want you to clarify -- i want to talk about the politics. do you think the politics of the republican party endorses a view that a woman who has an abortion is a victim? >> i -- i'm a huge opponent of abortion.

mark: your candidate today say id the woman was a victim. the -- his scenario, you should get into the if's, but if abortion was illegal and if the supreme court said it was legal to do so, what would happen if a woman had an abortion? he said someone would get punished. and i think the way he said it, it started like the woman should be punished, but of course he meant the doctor would be the one that violated the law, not the woman. the democrats are all up in arms about this; the media is. obviously, mr. trump's two remaining republican opponents. will become they commercial or source of consternation within the

republican party at large? >> no, i don't. he's dominated every new cycle for weeks. scott walker's endorsement got almost no play nationally. they keep wanting to talk about donald trump, and they don't quite get that is not helping their cause. mark: ok. barry, thank you very much. always nice to have you. go back to county delegates. -- to counting delegates. up next, we will talk to the director of the wisconsin poll. charles franklin, which areas of the state matter most, etc. after these words from our sponsors. ♪

mark: you know it's a hot race when charles anglin is on your show twice -- charles franklin is on your show twice in one week. he started the market: he is here to tell us what it means. let's start with republican numbers and geography. which areas of state is it that ted cruz is doing so well in that he is leading the polls? >> well, ted cruz is doing really well in the southeast. that's where establishment republicans usually do well. until recently, you might not have thin thought of him as an establishment republican, but compared to donald trump i suppose so. trump had been doing well in the northwest, but one of the surprising things is that cruz is one points behind trump.

fieldyour poll was in the before the walker endorsement, ruz is up even without it. my question is, with walker now behind cruz, how much is that likely to help him going forward? >> you would think it would help. our pull ended on monday night before the endorsement. one of the striking things in the poll is that among public and primary voters -- republican primary voters, walker's job approval is 80%. that,d cruz gets 45% of donald trump only 27%. conversely, among that 17% that don't approve, trump is getting 44%. you can see a pretty sharp dividing line there. vote walker can bring to cruz remains to be

seen, but maybe there is some there. john: the last question, about the republican side of the pull, is why is it that john kasich isn't doing better in a state that is exactly like ohio, but isn't that far from it? >> in a lot of ways, you would think you would do well. this is a campaign that had a hard time igniting. the comparisons of kasich to walker are reasonably strong. not perfect, but somewhat strong. what we're seeing from kasich is is in the middle on a whole lot of things.there are groups that trump does well in , others that cruz does well in. case it does ok in all of them; not enough to break out. john: i'm going to switch over to the democrat side. but look at those numbers again. you have sanders with a narrow lead in the state. one of the big questions people have asked is whether wisconsin would behave more like michigan

or like ohio. saying thatpoll will help us answer that question? >> it's a pretty close call. first of all, is up by about four. when you look at the gaps on the -- the gender gap, white and nonwhite, you see that in wisconsin we have some gaps, but they're not real big gaps. they're not the gaps that propel clinton, for example, in ohio, and that help sanders in michigan. instead what we are seeing is on both the gender gap and the gap between whites and nonwhites, we are seeing a relatively smaller difference then we saw in the other two states. the result is we're moving towards the middle. john: if you think

geographically, in the six days before the primary next week, where does hillary clinton have to do better, geographically speaking, if she is going to pull this thing out? >> geographically, she really needs to do better in the the walkie area. that was -- in the milwaukee area. among likely voters, she is slightly behind. in the city of milwaukee, an area tailor-made for her, she is up by nine points among registered voters, but down by two among likely voters. she needs a really big turn out to make the electorate look more like registered voters and less like likely voters. john: and what accounts for that? i'm surprised by her weakness in milwaukee. i know it's probably not in the numbers, but what is it you think that would explain that? >> well, we are seeing sanders

do pretty well among some constituencies, but he doesn't do so well elsewhere. he's not doing as well as she is among nonwhite voters, for example, but he's not losing it by a large amount. on the gender gap, there is a gap -- more men voting for him only losing can be women by two or three points, that's a real win for him. he has lost it by a lot in earlier states. john: ok. charles franklin, thank you very much, always a pleasure to have you on, especially twice in one week. we will be right back with who lost the day, after this. ♪

mark: switching things up a little bit, not twho won but

who lost. john: there are a lot of candidates, but you have to say that john kasich joins the hall of shame along with bill de blasio, donald trump, sarah palin. that fork. no way to win. mark: no way to win if you the pizza with a fork. head to bloombergpolitics.com for our podcast. campaign veterans and the former mississippi governor haley barbour. coming up, cory johnson speaks to the ceo of deezer. thanks for watching. ♪

mark: i'm mark crumpton; you are watching bloomberg west. let's check with the first word. paris prosecutors say a french citizen arrested last week has been charged with allegedly

plotting in and in terror attack. officials say the suspect is accused of participating in a terrorist group with plans for at least one attack. he also faces charges of possessing explosives and holding fake documents. the united nations secretary-general ban ki-moon is making a global appeal on behalf of syrian refugees. ban wants to resettle nearly 500,000 syrian refugees around the world over the next three years. says countries can benefit from accepting refugees, as they can bring new skills and experience to aging workforces. supreme court nominee merrick garland met today with democratic senators al franken of minnesota and kirsten gillibrand of new york. the republican leadership refuses to consider judge saying theomination, next president should choose a successor to antonin scalia a. colombia says it will hold peace talks. the government