♪ >> from our studios in new york, this is charlie rose. charlie: when you first heard there was a new musical may be in the works about alexander hamilton. special,usic would be >> for me, the most famous person was linn. i didn't know a lot about alexander hamilton. his name on it was compelling enough for me to want to see

what i could do to be a part of it. up -- i didn't think there was any way i would get the job. i thought it would make money. charlie: that would be one hell of a investment. you are the wrapper. per.ap >> to the people that know me. charlie: can you imagine the idea of you, thomas jefferson, a founding father? >> no. never imagined it. tommy brought the idea up to me while we were at the super bowl. he told me what it was about. i said, yes, send it to me. this cannot work. understanding he was a genius. as soon as they sent me the using, they sent be demos where

he sings everything himself. all of the beats were made on garageband. even that was enough to say, oh that's perfect. charlie: i keep hearing the word, genius attached to him. what is it about him that everyone says is genius? >> he is a synthesizer. he has made them make us in a way that they never have before. he has made them make sense in the context of our time. with our music. leslie: made these dead white guys -- available to black and brown people. charlie: timing was important. >> yes.

people found a truth within themselves. and read life into it. -- breathe life into it. thehe genius comes from work, not the product itself. that was apparent to me the first day i entered the room. i could see the minds that were here, they were coming together, and what that meant in terms of throwing an idea out there and throwing it .way and being able to freely bring ideas up and let go of them. charlie: you guys are in it. people will tell you because you are in it, what it means to them. what are you hearing? what is resonating with these audiences. these are extra ordinary audiences.

from a high school student in the bronx to people from around the world. what is it? >> after the show there is a lot of -- something i want to say. i need to be able to express myself, but i cannot. i am sorry. to which we say, ok, we feel it too. there is a communion that happens between what happens on stage and what seems to be affecting people out in the audience. christopher: that is, you get this overwhelming sense of feeling something. of being moved. there are so many different things happening in the story that is -- it is almost impossible to peg if it is just the music or lights. they could be any number of those things or all of them. show,aving not seen the

people express themselves. charlie: you said it gives you something you did not have before. ownership of your own history. is really time i have felt particularly american. the last eight months i have been working on this, or i guess three years. , i think what it does is are. value to whoever you i think it does that for everybody. i say all the time what this show asks of you as a performer is to bring every part of you on stage. i think that translates. you, exactly where you are right now, if you had a bad day or a great day, doesn't matter.

it has value and it is part of the history of the country. everything that you are doing right now is part of leading up to the next moment. being in this room, you choosing to spend this time with us. charlie: when they said you would be the narrator. it is your voice. your song that will take us through the story. how did that sit with you? i take it seriously that i am the guide. i have the responsibility to make sure that they get it. they come along for the ride. tommy said something early unrehearsed that i loved left, he said, it is very easy for this thing to be about you guys up on stage and those costumes. -- in those costumes. there could be a separation. they made sure the orchestra did not separate us. that we are as close as we can possibly be.

them.et so much from they teach me so much. there is something else that happens together. we have traveled so far at the end of this three hours. we have lived. >> 40 years. daveed: only to this moment. when people come backstage it is a profound -- it is the profundity. charlie: they said about you, chris, they knew your work. they worked with you before. eyes and kind of presence that was essential. yeah, we were on stage, and lin-manuel: look at me and said, i found my next story.

in the show, we are doing the show. the moment where there is another number and we always talk. we have 45 second conversations. entire the entire day. he looks at me and says -- they can span the entire day. he looks at me and says mr. president. i see tommy a few days later and he says, mr. president. i said, oh, this is really happening. this is real. without a second thought i left. i went to the nearest bookstore. i went to get george washington's biography. a definitive biography, no doubt. learning about george washington has been a life altering affecting exterior. -- experience. playing him in the context of -- we meet him at a

time in his life when the stakes could not be higher. he was literally drowning in the quagmire that was our country as it was being birthed. being charged with this army and disorganized gathering of ideas. there were guns pointed at him. heavy, but a very very full of spirit -- full expanse. -- experience. charlie: how hard is it to take words from, these he has labored over, not for a week or a month, but sometimes many months, even a ofr, and do them with kind -- the kind of emphasis and speed, more words per minute on any production almost since

sugar -- shakespeare, according to people who --. that is what they said they knew you could do. they said, we know she can deliver this. there are not that many people we have. -- we know. >> the beauty is, you get a lot of credit. 20 years later they will say, a lot of girls could have done this. it is working for me right now. lines is always easiest, depending on how well they are written. that i do inaps the show are analytical and brilliantly constructed. once i figured out what she was saying, i heard the demo and that brought me in. listening to his demo.

charlie: his demo did it. listened to a song called "satisfied." i thought it was beautiful a was a beautiful way to show person making a decision that will affect the rest of their life in an instant. we always say, i knew in an instant something happened. that means your mind had to go from zero to 60. what other form of music and do that as well as rap? i don't know. he was very successful in that. it was the easiest part. it still remains the easiest part of my job. believe it or not. though it is the thing i get the most credit for. it is the easiest part of this job for me, to do that rap, because it is well constructed. charlie: the composition of all of this. rapper. a good

rappers are coming to see the show and saying the same thing. it is impressive just from that standpoint. that is important. for me, the second i read writes, i that lin know it. >> i don't read sheet music. i can look at the page and know how the cadence was. -- flows. charlie: how is the cast album? story people were leaning in. there is a reason they call your silky? [laughter] >> the beautiful thing about the cast album is the task is so

gargantuan that you come in and think you will be nervous. you come in and thank you will get so swept up in the amount of work that you have to do. you can lose yourself. leslie: i didn't know how we would make it through that. at some point we were done. we found the energy. we found to be silky tones. whatever. >> he found a lot of them. charlie: these are good female roles. here is a woman of dignity. dignity who comes face-to-face with two huge events. one, her husband's life. and his death. in between discovering his affair. -- i was like i see

really taken with the way that ron pretrade eliza -- portrayed a liza any book. in the book. i was taken by how much he admired her. he very much thought of his own wife. it makes me think about my own mother, her mother, my father's mother. these incredible women who spend their lives -- spent their lives truly supporting their family and loved ones. it is interesting because my character is one of the only characters that is not rap at all. i don't think that is an accident. i feel like eliza is about time. in these melodies that i have i have more time.

i have more time to express simple information, as opposed which is less time and as much information as you can. she has the most time in the entire show. see -- itou never has been 50 years. all to make sure that history gave him his due. >> i just took a trip this morning to go to grand wyndham, the original what we refer to the orphanage she established. to see something like that that she started that still exist today. there is a beta for black that is dedicated -- there is a beautiful plaque that is dedicated to her. she lived to be 97 years old. for us, now, it that is incredible.

ron has this beautiful -- he said something really interesting to me when we were discussing her. she lived to see the beginning of the civil war and the unveiling of the washington monument. if you can, and your mind, you can imagine her -- he likes to imagine rubbing shoulders with ebrahim lakin -- abraham lincoln. she had an incredible view to his life in that time. charlie: did you do a lot of research? did you simply look at the text and say, i know jefferson. i know the jefferson that i want to be. christopher: first and foremost, i wanted to honor what was there. i am still doing research. the more i learn things. i think there is so much in a text. the thing you realize

about jefferson quickly is that he did so much, you could make any choice and justify it. the choices are endless. what tommy me, and encouraged often was bridging this gap between the figures and the audience. for me jefferson became a composition of people in my life that had characteristics that worked for the parts of jefferson that we were showing any script. -- in the script. we needed extremely charismatic, but also dangerous. my grandfather is all over that. there is so much of my grandfather in thomas jefferson that i cannot even -- on the want to -- on the walk -- the way he holds mccain -- the cane.

they give me that costume. christopher: purple velvet. i call my suit presidential. that was an upgrade from off-broadway. it was brown. i went in for the fitting and they put the purple velvet suit on me. i said, yell messed up. there is no turning back. i walked in the hallway. it was too good. all of these things and form -- inrform. charlie: they inform your interest -- entrance. daveed: man tommy spent a lot of time -- me and tommy spent a lot of time figuring out what would set this moment right.

he has to carry a lot of weight. if the entrance does not go well, it makes a very hard climb. sometimes where the show becomes really long. -- tommy spent a lot of time are you going to start off or on stage? do you blow kisses. feeling settled where i can try things and it is not feel like it breaks the performance. for me, for a long time it was like -- take two steps. blow a kiss. charlie: when you settle into the roles you can do a little bit of enhancement. >> the audience teaches us so much. process is so important.

we were itching -- when herschel is done right you are begging -- when audience rehearsal is done right, you are begging for the audience. for the narrator, they are my scene partner. it is almost like i cannot take a step forward without them. it is almost futile now. leslie: doing a show without an audience, there is no show. "rent" was huge in lin-manuel's life. it was,. >> i had the privilege of being the last one on broadway. they did that so beautifully. they sense the show off so beautifully. i had a lot of opportunity to talk to michael and jeffrey. i told people about how it felt

to be in this moment with hamilton. what it felt like to be in that original company. me in rent --e those clothes were the original clothes. that is beautiful. i love to compare angelica skyler to mimi in "rent." there are surprisingly similarities between powerful women. a woman making choices at a time when you imagine there is no power. one of the things that is exciting and -- to me about playing angelica skyler and feeling so powerful and knowing that in the time that we live in with hillary running for sotomayor -- sonia we get to show, to quote chelsea , who the founding mothers were.

and what they did. they were not just selling flags. -- sewing flags. they were actually the news -- muse. i don't know what history will say. i know that it is -- i think one of the most important musical theater works that i have ever been exposed to in my life. i'm not only talking about just the music on the page. in what andy did visually with a number -- with this number. i have only been a part of it. . what they have been able to accomplish in storytelling will always be studied. that is exciting. charlie: is there one memorable song, phrase, line that is

always there for you? >> the first thing i say is, watching this girl -- i came on pipa, little bit before and watching her come in and grow into this role, and watching her process. i have the same expense in college. -- experience in college. leslie: i learned just as much for my classmates as my teachers and college. -- in college. vulnerabilityd that pipa has brought. i tell her all the time, she does not lie. her instruments will not allow her to lie. i have seen her for months now. i have waited for the day that she has a show where she takes fakes it.

to be that close to her genius. to be that close every night to somebody telling that much truth. made nohe same -- lin " is a that "wait for it favorite of his. he gave me that generosity. , his favorite tune. >> that was an example of a song a lot of people told him to cut. he did not. leslie: or keep it for himself because it is great. charlie: knowing jefferson's history and sally hemmings and the controversial aspects of his life does that same evening to you -- say anything to you? >> yeah. as know what is fascinating

-- is, when we meet jefferson his house is being prepped by half slaves -- by all of his slaves. meet sally briefly, but the audience still falls in love with him. that is telling. that is what i wanted. to create a character where you could absolutely fall in love with this guy. a few hours later be like, wait a minute. that is not really ok. charlie: that is not the whole man. >> i think that is in the text. it is also part of the story of our country. i love that we do not gloss over it. even know it is not part of the story that we are telling. there is a third battle that was

all about still very -- slavery that has been cut from the show that is great. it borrows heavily from tupac's "hail mary." it is an awesome song. it makes sense it is not in this version of the show. i think that knowing that about jefferson helps me find that dangerous aspect of him. is -- that ist he important in his dealings with hamilton. having jefferson be dangerous. i think that history of slavery for me is such a dangerous thing. here's somebody -- the declaration is a brilliant piece of writing. he did a lot of brilliant things. i wouldn't want those knots to exist -- those to not exist. slavery is real. that is something dangerous and

we come in contact with it everyday. he allowed himself to justify it in so many different ways. i think i applaud the show does not gloss over that, even though it is not part of the story. time totep back and get think about it, you can come into contact with these things and feel gross allowed -- about them. charlie: what is the best moment for you as george washington? christopher: i lost my father about two weeks into the preview process. which on many levels was difficult. i am sorting through that. very much in the same way that washington, i think he identified a great deal with loss. he lost his father, an older brother, and a best friend early

on. he was exposed to war early on. dying is easy, young man, living is harder. the line he delivers to hamilton when they're having their introduction in the show. think affects me the most is the last line in the show -- one of the last lines, it, she was instrumental in the building of the monument. she says, as i am standing behind her, she tells my story. the spirit of washington is reveling in the fact that he has remembered byd -- such a strong, wonderful woman, she says, i got against slavery. -- i speak out against slavery. that moment washington realizes that he did not. it is a moment of shame. i slowly bow and back away from

that. there is a time that she represents the resilience and the legacy moves forward in a pure way through her. that shame, just as much as washington embodies the greatness and promise of america, that shame is something that she speaks out against. as washington, i get to own that. i get to us -- step back from that glory. i know that you cannot have one without the other. thecountry is all of wonderful things that it is, you cannot have the declaration and our time without examining what the founding fathers sacrificed in effort to make that the real thing. rights was the real thing. yearsk so many lives and to claim hold of.

charlie: well said. you all of you, or some, or any of you feel like this somehow, in this world of musical theater is transformative? fromhing taking place here manuel and all of the performances and collaboration that somehow is impact on theater as we know it? >> good god, you hope so. everything we have been through, all of us. we bring our own struggles and pain. the things that it took to get us here. we got in our second week of previews, we had the president of the on states -- of the united states. in the audience. chance, we don't know

if it is going to happen, but we have the chance to touch his heart. to make him think about something in a way that he has never thought about it before. just the opportunity to do it. >> three hours. >> you hope that it doesn't. -- it does it. it is world leaders. minds on thisted planet are coming here. we have a chance. we'll see what happens. but we have a chance. >> that is what is exciting. in terms of impacting the world. there are successful hit shows, what is unique about this expense to me is, its impact.

it feels like it blew the walls off the theater. we have hadt supporters. they know and care what is going on. arts, politics, and sports, all of these things are bubbles. when we can pop the bubble open -- if roger federer can talk about a show he saw. when we can get out of this little bubble we are actually doing what we said we wanted to do we got into this. charlie: it is a cultural touchstone. thank you. ♪

asharlie: he served representative to the united nations under bush from 2007 to 2009. prior to that he was u.s. ambassador to iraq from 2005 2 2007. and afghanistan from 2003 to 2005. muslimthe most senior and the white house at the time of the 9/11 attacks. he has written his memoirs. it is called the envoy from kabul to the white house, my journey from a turbulent world. i am pleased to have an old friend back on the program. welcome. what are you doing now? zalmay: i spent part of my time at the center for international studies.

boards, national endowment for democracy, atlantic council, the american university of afghanistan. charlie: the world you and -- inhabited as a public official. this comes some years after your experience, a long time coming? did you just -- decide to write it. zalmay: i wanted to reflect and be able to talk to some of the colleagues who had other responsibilities and do it in a way.ery way -- deliberate not to settle scores, but to do a thorough objective. my background, although i've have done a lot of policies as a scholar and anna -- and analyst. at columbia was

university. i took my time. charlie: take a look at where we are today. first afghanistan -- new government they are -- there since your friend left. there is talk of negotiation with the taliban. there seems to be more strength in terms of the central military force military force. where are we? zalmay khalilzad: they are in a much better place than after 9/11. ,n army that is holding although after we reduce those forces, there has been a shift in favor of the taliban. they have gained territory. is havinggovernment difficulties working together. negotiation -- donnie is a

good friend. we were in school together and came to america together in the 1960's. believe it or not. the discussion about talks for the taliban has not made significant progress because the taliban would like to talk to the united states, not to the afghan government. we know it -- we say no, either we should talk with the u.s. and afghanistan government together, or not at all. i think that is the issue that has not made the kind of progress that we would like to see. the sanctuary for the taliban continues -- the big problem has been to not be able to successfully deal. charlie: has better -- it is better than it has been. zalmay khalilzad: we would like to see more. much better than before.

the distinction that pakistan makes between the taliban or terrorist groups that vocus on pakistan -- focus on pakistan and those on india and pakistan is troubling and has not been resolved to our satisfaction. meaning pakistan works against terrorist but sustains, looks the other way, supports groups like the taliban. it is the military brought into the civilian government -- afghanistaniban in and pakistan, what is the difference? zalmay khalilzad: ideologically there is no difference. taliban -- they say we should target of. -- target them. should not beiban

targeted by the u.s. or them, or the afghans. this has been a huge headache. a huge problem for which we have not found a resolution. surprisedhere you that omar was dead two years after he died. zalmay khalilzad: i was surprised his death was kept secret. the fact that it was announced in the aftermath of which you see several taliban groups emerge because there has been a problem in that region when a big leader dies, going back to the time of the prophet. then you have factions increasing. you have groups fighting each other. maybe over time that factor will become more important than reconciliation of the internal fight among the taliban and how we relate to it. how the afghan government

relates. that might become more interesting. charlie: is corruption still the problem as it was in the previous administration? zalmay khalilzad: maybe even it has increased. although the government is more serious than the previous one because of the uncertainty about the future. gotten worse people think more in short terms. they don't know what might happen so they say, why not take care of oneself. put the money upside -- aside. corruption is a serious problem. charlie: what about the power of the world towards? -- warlords? zalmay khalilzad: it is not as dominant as it was right after 9/11. .e worked with warlords

it has taken time to build the afghan institution. as a result there has been a shift in the balance between the government, which has institution and the warlords which have weakened. ♪

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the 5th dimension, e lovin' spoonful, rare earth, spencer davis, three dog night, and many more! imagine enjoying all that great music on the fabulous celebrity summit, leaving fort lauderdale and making ports of call in jamaica and the bahamas. you'll be back in the days of bellbottoms, peace signs, and so much more, with special theme parties and 20 fun-filled celebrity interactive events. cabins are filling up fast, so come on, relive the era you remember so well. the flower power cruise, february 27th, 2017. let your freak flag fly. don't miss the grooviest trip at sea. ♪ charlie: when we attacked skedanistan, i have a lots of people this, how close

before osama bin laden was --led, how close to we get come to getting him when he was fleeing? zalmay khalilzad: there may have been an opportunity in tora bora , the mountains, that is where he was. warlords.on local if he came towards afghanistan fleedet bombing -- bombing they would capture him. he went to pakistan and he was not captured. charlie: americans thought they pretty much had him caught. zalmay khalilzad: i don't know that. we are aware he was in that area. if we had him in eyesight, i cannot confirm that. charlie: you believe that

pakistanis did not know where he was? zalmay khalilzad: the question is which pakistani? -- somet some new pakistanis knew where he was. where in a strategic area a military colleges near -- college is near. the military is very strong. knewpect that somebody and offered protection. charlie: they would not have told a higher up? zalmay khalilzad: i suppose it is possible. they might have said, don't tell me if you know anything. i don't want to know. but. they denied pakistan for a long time that there were any taliban in pakistan. president bush, after i complained a lot about the

sanctuary and pakistan -- in pakistan, he said, i will do something for you, i will call and say that you are coming to see him because you offer capmss of where cancer -- are. when i went to see him, he denied there were any taliban in pakistan. i was surprised to hear that. the leadership council of the taliban was in a big city. journalists were going and interviewing these taliban's. that is what the dilemma has been. charlie: the president is having a nuclear summit. the question once more has been raised because with respect to some of the people who represent isis in europe evidently had some designs on nuclear resources.

they were even considerations of kidnapping people who work there. the question once again of the safety of nuclear weapons in pakistan. what is your sense of that today? zalmay khalilzad: today it is not an imminent threat. at least based on what i know, we do not have an immediate concern. over time, given the kind of problems that pakistan has, including extremism, the danger that as pakistan deploys lots of tactical nuclear weapons all over the country. charlie: what do you mean deploys? zalmay khalilzad: pakistan has deployed nuclear weapons to different parts of the country for safety and security reasons. so one strike cannot take them all out. there is transportation of these

weapons throughout pakistan. thatis certainly a risk one or lots of weapons could fall into the hands of terrorist. -- iis why am an advocate am an advocate of having a small force in afghanistan because we may have to take action. if we know where something is, to safeguard it. to go and rescue or take over that weapon. if it falls into the wrong hands. , ite are not in the region will take us a long time to deploy forces to do that. we could not have done bin laden as effectively if there had not been helicopters. some presence in afghanistan is needed. it is unlikely, but a dangerous scenario of a pakistan bomb.

charlie: how does the government feel about american troops remaining? they often look at iraq and say, it probably was a mistake. it led to having less influence with the prime minister of iraq and an acceleration of this tonight shiite -- sunni shiite split. zalmay khalilzad: we have learned the lesson from iraq that total u.s. withdraw was a big mistake. it created a vacuum in which regional powers became more involved. they pulled iraq apart. the vacuum ultimately was filled by isis. as we did in afghanistan, i had meetings with iranians, and afghanistan i had regular meetings with the iranian ambassador that i should have been allowed to also engage with the iranians diplomatically.

they decided to allow me to do so. why could i talk to the iranian on the eastern side, but not on the western side? but they also said go ahead. it was at the end of my term. also there were a couple of other lessons that perhaps we could have done better. we were in a hurry to get the constitution done within two months of my arrival to finish. i think a little more time to get a national compact for an agreement would have been better. by the time we finished the constitution we had some sunni buy into the document that allowed the constitution to be passed. it had not quite become the national compact that iraq still needs. this is a need for the sunni and agreementcome to an

that they are comfortable with in terms of the future of the country. charlie: the future of the region even. zalmay khalilzad: the key factor, frankly, charlie, that shapes iraq and syria is the regional rivalry. the political dimension. charlie: there is a column today from the point that unless they togetherow get them they will find it is impossible to solve conflicts. zalmay khalilzad: i completely agree with that, but the way that they could come about in my view is for iran, saudi arabia, and turkey, the three big powers of this region to do a kind of -- what i call a new agreement. european wars of religion ended with an agreement among catholic and protestant regulating.

charlie: who would call that meeting? zalmay khalilzad: i think there is an opportunity for the united states. of thesitive features nuclear agreement, we have opened a channel with iran. we might be uniquely in a position -- i don't know if there's a much time -- there's enough time for this administration to use that influence in saudi arabia and turkey. and the opening with iran to facilitate and encourage cooperate an agreement among these three. we need to work on the pillars that could lead to an agreement. .e are good at responding we are good counts are punchers punches.er

ishave to recognize that necessary and we can discuss how we get from here to there. -- you: back to turkey say that is the third part of the problem. the turkish president is in washington. zalmay khalilzad: i am having dinner with him on friday. charlie: he is not seeing the president. zalmay khalilzad: surprising, isn't it? charlie: he is seeing the vice president. the president of china is seeing the president. zalmay khalilzad: i think turkey is a key player. they are desirable. over of the take newspaper. without turkey and without iran and saudi arabia we cannot move

towards -- charlie: do you believe he believes in secularism? zalmay khalilzad: he has to in order not to disqualify himself from being president. charlie: i am asking. zalmay khalilzad: no, i think he is muslim brotherhood. he is much more focused on the middle east and secular governments. he is a strong player. he supports the muslim brotherhood throughout the middle east. charlie: weather in jordan or egypt. difficultlilzad: relations -- charlie: what do you think about the egyptians and repeated calls for newspaper editorials in other places and the rest the express of the world to some sense of outrage about the crackdown? zalmay khalilzad: the muslim

brotherhood government alienated many egyptians. the military government also does not offer solutions to the economic problem or security problems of egypt. the security situation is likely to be worse. one cannot be terribly optimistic about the stability and nature's -- transition to democracy in egypt. charlie: thank you for coming. it is great to see you. envoy." is called "the it is still turbulent. thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

mark: i am mark halperin. john: with all due respect, secrets are no fun. ♪ >> greetings from the university of wisconsin at madison. there is more fallout from donald trump, where he said abortion should be illegal. and there has to be some sort of punishment. we will spend our entire a block talking about the only question teflon donhas the