♪ welcome to another edition of the best of with all due respect. it was a week of controversy large and small might campaign manager being arrested for campaign manager eating with pizza with a fork. donald trump has sparked yet another comment storm for comments he made on abortion. onis matthews in a town hall wednesday. chris matthews: should the woman be punished? jot -- not something to

dodge. it is either murder or law. should it be punished? trump: people in certain parts of the republican party would say yes. chris matthews: but would you? donald trump: i was say it is a very serious problem. it is a problem we have to decide on. we going to say put them in jail? chris matthews: no, i am asking you. how do you actually do it? donald trump: you go back to a position like they had where people were perhaps go to illegal places, and you have to do it. chris matthews: they flunked out of medical school. donald trump: how do you feel about that catholic church position? i accept that morality. and you concur with that? chris matthews: i concur with that moral position. but here is my problem -- donald trump: but what do you

say about your church? chris matthews: churches make their morals. you are running for president, chief executive of the united states. do you believe in punishment for the abortion, yes or no? donald trump: the answer is there has to be some pot -- form of punishment. chris matthews: for the woman? donald trump: yes. i do take positions on everything else. it is political. mark: the political world has been reacting to that fascinating exchange. john kasich was in queens, new york, and he criticized donald trump's answer as inappropriate. around ininton was harlem, she criticized and was quick to respond via twitter when he said, just when he thought he could not get worse, perfect and telling, trump try to walk back his remarks in not one that to statements he put -- but two statements he put out.

if congress were to pass legislation making abortion illegal and the courts upheld this in any state was permitted to ban this under federal law, the doctor or any other person performing this illegal act on a woman would be held legally responsible, not the woman. the woman is a victim in this case, as is the life in her womb. my position has not changed at ronald reagan. i am pro-life. swirling. is it has replaced yesterday's trump controversy. how big a problem is this for trump now? john: it is a big problem on almost every level, mark. you think about what this means for donald trump in the general election. it is the kind of talk of that when we talk about marco rubio's position on abortion making it hard to win a general election, this is horrible. he is in a position where he is not only at odds with democrats, with independence. he is at odds on this issue with

a lot of conservative republicans who think that women should not be penalized the doctors. -- but the doctors. he is patronizing and condescending toward women about abortion, calling them victims. it is that on every level and plays into the woman narrative that has been building for weeks, or at least a week now for him. all bad, bad, bad, bad. mark: it is a big issue, there is no answer, and conservatives will criticize me for asking the question because it seems logical that if a portion is murder and a woman should have one, she should be punished. it is lyrically untenable to say that, and a trump has said the , now should face a penalty they are victims, and old-fashioned view of women that will alienate a whole group of people. he can hope it goes away and make it go away, but this shows that when he is pressed, as chris matthews did on tough issues, he is still learning as a first-time candidate. john: yes, the thing about that

is the way chris matthews got him on this, try to get a little more depth with him on this issue. it is public and to -- it is propagated. it is a conundrum. as trump did not see pro-life as he is. he talked about the grasp of his position. it is showing underlying weakness as him as a candidate. before we talked about that, it is a position nobody will will forget. seller clinton will not especially if he is that general nominee. mark: not necessarily in the short term for the nomination, we will see it hurt him in the general. i believe it could hurt him in the short-term. john: right, yes. so now, let's talk about the other trouble in trump land. a day after his campaign manager was charged with battery for -- last a reporter,

night during a cnn tom hall, trump offered this as his version of the events in question. donald trump: she grabbed me on the arm. i am like this. am i supposed to rest charges against her? she had a pen in her hands. -- secret service does not know what is. there was a town where i have a big investment, i'm 20 figure of ? ese democrats, republicans it was so minor, people say what is this all about? we have people in the middle east drowning people in cages, and he pushes her? what kind of country are we in when they go to kasich, i would fire him. ted cruz, i would fire him. you need someone that is going to be loyal to the country into your cells. -- your cells. john: he is also facing more damning headlines.

a woman was essentially assaulted, 15 years old, in wisconsin tuesday night. here's video making the internet rounds in the past 24 hours. considering all the news, how do ? u think mark: if he wins wisconsin or new york, the danger for him is all the swirling controversy, up to the notion of women and treatment of women. if he loses wisconsin and the exit polls show he has been bad with women, and is tough to put down. john: these all connect up. you have an unflattering picture. you move on to corey lewandowski

a woman. attacking the pepper spray, now the abortion, all toward women but an atmosphere of barely restrained and sometimes unrestrained violence around trump. -- hedisquieting and it may or may not have the wisconsin primary. his is the first time it seems like trump is being battered right now. a little bit on the ropes. mark: a dirty little secret even and vice, great to have the press on your side. --vez gotten good coverage just has gotten good coverage, but he's stories are turning against him. as long as he is winning, politically he is ok in the short-term, but if you start losses, these loyalties will compound. other people are clearly troubled by this. we will see how wisconsin voters feel about that.

ahead of tuesday's wisconsin primary. there is a new state poll of wisconsin voters. democrats and republicans say ted cruz on the replicant side beating donald trump amongst gop voters in the badger state 30% -40%. john kasich is in third, 21%. approve found that 81% of the job governor scott walker is doing taken before walker induced -- supported ted cruz. that is the same number of walker fans combined with trump and kasich. bernie sanders is beating hillary clinton, and in a head to head general election matchup, sanders beats all three , clinton loses to kasich, ties with crews, and will beat trump. of thatsignificant skyhigh approval rating amongst

republicans now with less than a week before the primary? john: we thought there was no doubt that the walker endorsement of ted cruz would help a little bit. he is very popular with republicans, conferring his blessing on ted cruz may have been a signal of the fact that a politicalso operator and conceit momentum z's directionu anyway. if he is this much ahead, you cannot help but think he will get more points at least in terms of that endorsement and steal the whole wisconsin primary on tuesday. mark: we don't want to make this all dump on trumped, but he has been criticized even in their own states, criticizing walker as he had done in the republican primary, he is very popular. the trailalker on with ted cruz, he has got a chance to really drive a message. let's talk about democratic

in the and the fact that democratic survey, bernie sanders once again is doing better than hillary clinton against the republicans. is there significance, or does it have any meaning for the primary? it is significant -- john: it is significant that even hillary clinton's top aides and strategists that when bernie sanders is working a state, he moves of votes. he will be here in wisconsin between now and tuesday. hillary clinton is not. he is ahead in the poll if it is accurate. he is spending more days here that hard. he also like ted cruz to be winning the primary. i still struggle getting around the map if there were a governor's race in ohio between john kasich and bernie sanders, bernie sanders would really win? that is really incredible. john: it is baffling. there was a lot to set with bernie sanders.

trump, and i think that things have gotten personal between trump and 's viewbecause kasich

does not match up with trump. if trump can bring them on board early, other people come on board. it becomes more than symbolic, they become leaders of the stop trump movement. john: if they are politically consistent, they will not end up supporting him as the nominee. if you listen to john kasich and ted cruz about what they have infirmities,'s there is no way they can support him. on the merit of the consistency, they will not end up in this camp. i don't think it is possible. mark: we hear the nomination bites, that person is horrible, normal -- horrible nominee. we can conclude that for ted cruz, it is personal. the: the law school poll on demographic data in the primary. ♪

♪

is a hot race in wisconsin when charles franklin is on your show twice in one week. he is the director of the marquette university of law school poll, and he is here to tell us more about it what means. let's start with public and numbers and geography. with areas of the state where ted cruz is doing so well, leading the poll? charles: ted cruz is doing really well in the southeast. that is where establishment .epublicans usually do well until recently, you may not have thought of him as a establishment republican. in comparison with tromp, i suppose so. trump had been doing well in the northwest. rick santoruma one in 2012. . won in 2012 but now the trump is behind, that is part of the cruz surge. john: so your poll was in the

field before the walker cruz is up, and yet, even without that endorsement. cruz walker now behind how much will that help him going forward? charles: you would think it would help. our poll ended monday night before walker endorsed in the next morning. one of the striking things in the poll is that among republican primary voters, approval is 80%. that is very strong. and ted cruz gets 45% of that, donald trump only 27%. conversely, among the 17% to the do not approve of walker, trump is getting 44%. you can see a sharp dividing line there. how much more vote walker can cruz, but maybe there is some there. why: the republican side,

is it that john kasich is not doing better in a statement isn't exactly like ohio but it is not far from like, ohio? charles: in a lot of ways, you would think he would do well. is the campaign and has had a hard time a guiding. kasich toisons of walker a reasonably strong, not perfect, but somewhat strong. is in the middle on a whole lot of things. there are groups trump does well in, other groups that cruz does well in. kasich does sort of ok, not enough to break out. john: so, i would to switch over to the democratic side. let's look at the numbers. you have standards with a narrow lead. -- sanders with a narrow lead. would wisconsin behave more like michigan where sanders won,

or behave more like ohio where clinton one pretty handily three at tell us about that question. all. es: is a pretty c he is up by 4%, not a lot. we look at the gaps on the gender gap, between white and nonwhite voters, you see that in wisconsin, we have some gaps there, but they are not real big gaps. they are not the kind of large gaps that propelled clinton in ohio and then at least helped sanders some in michigan. instead what we are seeing is on both the gender gap, we had white and nonwhite, it was relatively small differences in the other two states, and the result is, from sanders to clinton, we are moving to the middle of a close race here. john: if you think about geographically around the state, what in the seven days before

the primary next week, where does hillary clinton have to do better geographically if she is going to pull this thing out somehow? charles: geographically, she really needs to be too better in the milwaukee area. we expected that to be strong for her, but among likely voters, she is slightly behind. it is very interesting. in the city of milwaukee, and area tailor-made for her, she is up 9% among registered voters, likelyn by 2% among voters in the city. she needs a really big turn out to make the electorate look more like registered voters, a little less like likely voters. john: and what is it you think, what accounts for that? i am surprised by her weakness in milwaukee. what do you think, probably not in the numbers, but what do you think would explain that? charles: we are seeing sanders do pretty well among

constituencies, but he does not do so well elsewhere. he is not doing as well as she is among nonwhite voters, for example, but he is not losing the vote there by a large amount . he has lost in some states. on the gender gap, there is a gap, more men voted for him, but it is about even among women. it can be only losing women by two or three points. that is a real win for him. he has lost it by a lot in earlier state. mark: talking to brian fallon on the possible empire state debate with bernie sanders and the managing expectations. ♪

♪ as we are campaigning in wisconsin, we are joined by mr. brian fallon. think you for coming back on the show. the sanders campaign is agitating over question of

debate with your boss in this state, new york state. why will you not accept that right off the top brian:? brian:this is a little bit of 26 of teapot on the left hours. we've said we were willing to do more debate. for ahrough the process loop was the fact the sooners campaign issued a letter publicly. it is usually a process where they will work together privately through the dnc and come up with a debate schedule. we have always intended to go through that process. we are going through that process now. there is back channel conversation throughout the day today. our campaign indicated, the famous campaign indicated, through the dnc, we can debate and april -- in april. john: so new york is on the table. not a foreign but an actual debate. -- forum that an actual debate. mark: given how anxious they are

to do it in new york and here, are you willing to bend to that here? i know there are other options, but if you have to do new york, you will also do that? brian: i think they will have to work together to find out dates and locations. we are willing to do new york among other options. there are other states including pennsylvania which is a big delegate-rich state where the status campaign will have to do well if they are going to seriously vie for the nomination. she is definitely going to do new york, and if they can find some agreeable dates, it can happen. mark: is there any downside to debating in new york? brian: i don't think so. john: i would like to offer right here. we have four chairs here. brian: you need to figure it out with jeff weaver, debbie wasserman schultz, and jim baker. mark: we are calling them now. john: for the campaign manager being charged with battery and

whether donald trump is standing by his campaign manager, you think opposes the matter of policy and morality is the right thing to do. brian: i will not comment on the specific charge, because there is a legal process, and he will get his essay and his opportunity. .ut there is due process it is a very serious charge and it has been suggested there is evidence to back it up. but the most i will say is, to make an observation about the campaign generally, mr. trump has clearly created a culture that not just condones violence but also throws it on. that is true of his supporters and rallies he offers to pay legal fees, and also that he condoned it to a certain degree with his staff. the campaignt that manager is a male and the alleged victim is a female, does that say anything about the culture of the campaign? comment don't want to

on the particular incident, but there is a problem with the trump campaign. this is not a one off. this is not the most recent allegation with respect to conduct at their events. that says it all by itself. this is a recurring problem. john: everybody has watched the video. attorney,c, defense said he made contact. is that troubling to you, that the cause for criminal prosecution brian:? it is. and the fact that it made its way to charges is troubling. but if he defends himself, i don't want to prejudge that. it is not my place. it is a big the campaign will have to answer for in the specific and general sense. john: market earlier said campaign managers were charged in that way, take leave of absence. as a matter of form, the campaign manager would step aside for a little while?

brian: that is such a wild hypothetical that it is something that may not ever happen in our campaign. i mentioned a couple of weeks ago when this first happened, the campaign manager, his idea of what he likes to do when he is not back crunching numbers in the office is he goes door-to-door knocking to convince people to persuion of voters. he is not sounding as a bouncer enforcing crowd control. mark: the wisconsin primary is really important. hillary clinton has no plans, bill clinton, chelsea clinton. why are your principles not campaigning more? brian: wisconsin is important, but all of the states coming up are imported. the new york primary the 19th, she will take that off with an event tomorrow. he was where i think the new york primary looms large. , there are a lot of reasons he will be quite

competitive. ,nbalanced no matter who wins delegate wise, it will be a wash, but it will not significantly adjust the race. on new york on the 19th, that is one of the big delegate-rich states where he is not winning and winning big, we can effectively save the waves is over. mark: so will clinton set foot in wisconsin? brian: i'm not sure. i think it is possible to the family members or hillary clinton herself could go. but we will be here in new york and balancing our priorities in order to win the nomination. that means not just looking ahead to the next state but also across the chessboard. mark: and if there is likely to be a debate? brian: it is less travel. mark: bernie sanders used to win big important states. john: what would it be a margin that bernie sanders would win by a wisconsin that would cause you

concern? but with that number have to be? don't just a big. give me a number that would freak you out. brian: here is a point. if bernie sanders can win big in the delegate-rich estate, wisconsin, it will not -- if he wins by eight points. if he wins wisconsin even significantly, it is not necessarily anything -- break,e are going to a hold your hand up like this. ♪ john: brian fallon, he is fine. 50 point sooners is utterly meaningless. cruzresident of the pro promise. ♪

♪ we are back, and joining us from the new york studio is

the president of the ted cruz super pac keep the promise, and also the strategist of a full congregation of super pac's. thank you for joining us. kelly ann: my pleasure. mark: how would you appraise a ted cruz's current chances to become the republican nominee? they are great. -- kelly ann: they are great. we started out with 17, we are down to three. he can win outright with 1237 delegates, there is a chance of him doing that. plus is to go into an open contested convention having a respectably high number of delegates across a swath of states, head into the convention as the outgoing favorite. given the fact that mr. trump has a whole bunch of people who

would like to stop him from being the republican nominee. mark: how do you super pac's plan to spend the resources over the next month to help him become the nominee? tv ads, other things? really, we are looking at wisconsin. it is important, a great test for whether or how hard people can follow some of the incentives forced upon them recently, particularly by one messenger. also in wisconsin, it is a relative test for retail politics. you have contests coming so fast and furiously, we really have missed, those of us in politics have missed sort of the bigger retail policies we saw all across iowa, south carolina, and new hampshire. wisconsin safe to be a similar test for that. so our super pac put down $800,000 for wisconsin, tv, radio, digital, phone program,

get out the vote program, so we are all in wisconsin. and it cruise spending a lot of time there. we are trying to spend a lot of time in the other states coming up. and third, mark, we have started with the retail rigor looking at the convention. we have convinced experts, legal and delegate experts at our disposal. many on a volunteer basis coming b come and give us the plan for july, which seems like a short time from now. i hate to bring this up, but is this personal exchange, this bitter personal exchange, for your candidate, it distracts on the issues he wanted to run against donald trump on, and that is a distraction for ted cruz? kellyanne: it is a distraction for the voters, and it would be in theontinues to be

cesspool. he dabbled in there to spend his life and has gotten out. he should stay out of it. the same thing i would have told senator rubio. the plan summary else's turf and don't allow voters to hear something that needs to be on issues, you are already losing. the flight i am happy senator cruz is talking about the issue today. -- that is why i am happy senator cruz is talking about the issue today. he is very clear someone who runs the largest pro-cruz super pac, we had nothing to do with the anti-trump pac. those who say cruz knew about it, you are alleging he lied and violated federal law. ted cruz had to defend his own honor, and b, he had to defend his wife. he did it quite well. go ahead. al: if you get on the issues,

what issues do you think are good for -- what one or two issues do you think you can really sort issues against donald trump on that have -- a lot of them have not worked so far. kellyanne: the fact that ted --z has $2 billion in free does not have the $2 billion had, hethat trump has said you are not electable, too far right, wait your turn. it is quite remarkable that so many other people were supposed to win but were not. from the know him fight against obamacare. you have all republican senators in washington who want to repeal this, but only one man, ted cruz, stood on his feet for 21 hours on the floor of the united states senate. so i agree that i would like to hear more about these plans to replace obamacare. ted cruz is talking about the

tax plan, destroying isis, not being neutral on israel. so those voters that want to cure about policy, and i believe there are many, the willis and if they hear from senator cruz. -- they will listen if they hear from senator cruz. quickly, less than 20 seconds, tommy the single biggest mistake donald trump has made in the last two weeks. that has been like a phase. kellyanne: no ground game, no polling. the ability to have your own where itground game counts. late breaking voters do not go to him. they go to ted cruz. mark: the conversation with scott walker next. ♪

♪ mark: thank you for joining us. kellyanne: good to be here.

good to be here. candidate anda now you are hosting primaries. we want to talk about that, but let us start with when you got out of the race. you said clearly you thought other folks should get out, the person you deem to the front runner, and listen. scott walker: i thought the plurality on the majority dispersed among many. i hoped others would follow at least sooner. they eventually did, but more time, more money, primary and uses. is -- cauc i'm excited wisconsin is no small way. a you can argue it is a big way. i talked about way back symptom or 21. mark: let's talk about you and donald trump.

that before he was the presidential candidate, he was a big supporter of yours. you had some warm conversations. he said nice things, publicly and privately. he was in your state, and he says, you do not look like a motorcycle guy. those of the biggest fighting words. i am elected almost to repeat them to you. how about your history? did you misjudge his character, the kind of person he is? scott walker: no, i had 320,000 supporters, and i am glad mr. trump was one of them. the vast majority, over 90% of the donors give us $50 or less, so i'm glad people like him give to what we were doing. i am a midwestern guy. we have warm summer stations with a lot of people. mark: is what you thought of him then different from what you think about him now, and if so, what changed?

scott walker: i did not endorse him for anything. i thanked him for support like i think other people for support. i don't know a thing changed. the fact of the matter is, i looked at each of the candidates , the three remaining up there, and said there is to that have a shot. .p to the 12 37 delegates i look at the same time and said there are two of the three by the polling at least have a real shot at beating hillary clinton in the fall. my looked at those two groups and said there is only one guy that fits in both of those categories. it is ted cruz. on top of the fact, and i looked at the issues. you heard me tonight, you heard me in the comments i made this week. i have never gone after donald trump or any other candidate. it is all about forecast. this is the default endorsement for me. some of the other former candidates, they are getting behind a particular candidate to block donald trump.

i am not doing this to block donald trump. mark: so what about him saying you are not a motorcycle guy? in wisconsin, we don't debate. you can say whatever you want. you can come out, i will show -- iight party 1000 miles will show you my 21,000 miles on my harley davidson. voters are gravitating to ted cruz because they say, what does this have to do with the president of united states? we don't need someone good at giving insults to others. we need someone who is going to lead. john: because of this , youoversy over abortion have been a leader in the pro-life movement both in the state and nationally. long should be -- abortion should be outlawed, who would be punished. -- ae was stacking up staggering around and ended up on the woman that should be punished.

do you believe he is generally pro-life? do you think voters should believe he is generally life? scott walker: i don't try to interpret. me, anytime there is a situation involving abortion, it is a horrible tragedy. it is a tragedy for the woman, the child, and our hearts should go out to anyone. any of us who are generally pro-life know it is not an looking at assigning blame but just feeling bad about the entire situation and trying to find ways to avoid that in the first place. those are things people have to look at. for a lot of people in this state, who care deeply about that issue, what they will look at is not just with a particular candidate said. they will look at ted cruz and the other candidates for that matter and say, where have their beliefs of been in the past? parenthood,planned you cannot say he has been back

and forth, but you can say that of other candidates. this is a guy who, in the state house and state office, member of the united states senate, now presidential candidate, has been consistent. john: we had pro-life leaders on our show today talking about donald trump, he seems cynical, he is not really pro-life. he seems craven. an act of political calculation. when you listen, do you think that person is incredible -- a credible pro-life commitment? try toalker: let me answer this. when i hear ted cruz like about this issue, i hear someone who understands the issue, someone who has been hard else, thought about this long been he ever got in public office either at state or national. that is the sort of thing that will resonate. is sincerity of knowing this

the core principle, the sort of thing that does well in the public and primaries. this is that will help ted cruz in the general election. -- if i recall is any example -- i had 20% of the electorate voted for me and voted for barack obama. that is about absurd as you can think of politically. someone for me and obama at the same time. , that ae in midwest grant stays like ohio, michigan, others. states likeund ohio, michigan, others. that is where ted cruz has the other hand -- upper hand. you will never doubt where ted cruz comes from on these issues. bait i am not trying to you, i know that bill not work. the candidate you are supporting his outspoken. you are being reserved. if it is important to stop donald trump then shouldn't you

say why? ted cruz is less likely to be the republican nominee than donald trump. scott walker: in the end, and this may be different when you go to new york or somewhere else, people in wisconsin -- i know them well having gone sinceh three campaigns 2010. people do not want to hear who you are against and wide. they want to know who you are for. mark: so you think it will reflect that? scott walker: the only as a person but who i wisconsinite. in he would do well in midwestern states because what we want to know is what you stand for, what you believe. voters are pretty smart. they don't need someone to tell me what is wrong with someone else. they can figure that out themselves. mark: would you support or donald trump as republican nominee? scott walker: i did not raise my

hands. everybody else said as i did i would not run as third-party, support anybody else. i would support the nominee. i would hope the nominee after the win for ted cruz is ted cruz. it makes it easier. but i am a man of my word. my dog gone hardest to make sure ted cruz not only wins here, but that is the turning point. we look back in time and say that was a key moment that turned this election around. mark: thank you. i appreciate it. john: ♪ more of the best of with all due respect ahead.

♪ john: a week full of controversies, most of them just trumpoversies. we will bring you can medical news next week. mark: we have a new episode of with all due respect next monday. john: check out bloomberg.com

for the latest on the politics. you can also lose on the radio at 99.1 fm. ♪

♪ >> 11 welcome to "high flyers." the show to give you a 360 degree view of asia's business. on today show, if the to someone who is changing the face of transport. it has become a company operating across half a dozen countries. anthony hand.