>> welcome to bloomberg businessweek. i am carol massar. drags and i am david europe. jura.and i am david ♪ david: i am here with the editor of bloomberg's this week. an inconvenient truth about trade, something that has been talked about already. hot topic.is the david: it came out of nowhere.

about people losing jobs, thinking they have lost jobs to people abroad. our economics correspondent makes a point that economists are almost always for free trade. it is sort of a given economic. there is a reality that people peoplee their job to going abroad. low-wage jobs. places like china where things are more cheaply. moving out of china and going to places like vietnam where they can be purchased even more cheaper. government-funded programs where workers are compensated where they lose their jobs through trade have not been very effective. economists, the whole idea is if you lose sure trade, drained -- to

another will come up. but that does not always work and that is why there is are so many people paying attention to trade in this election. undress is in custody and we inside.wed him deep a rare interview. it is the first time he has told his whole story. we interviewed him in in a courtyard deep inside a government building and columbia. he is serving a 10-year sentence. he wants to say how he has turned good and will help turned state's evidence, etc.. he wants the story out because he wants his sentence reduced. he says he had interfered, through various methods of hacking, in many, many elections in latin america.

in there is evidence he is telling the truth. there are people who say he is not. but he has some evidence that he has hacked many elections in .any countries in latin america david: some say it is not true. what is their story? ellen: well, he says he worked closelyn in miami very the man says he worked with him but in a limited way and that he was never involved in anything illegal nor has he been charging and he said he was not involved in any of the activities. fake twitter accounts. robo calls in the middle of the to supporters of candidates and the supporters were so angry they were being awakened at 3:00 in the morning maybe they did not vote for the

candidate. intelligence gathering so candidates knew what their opponents were doing before the person across the hall at new. a whole variety of hacking activities that got information and votes. david: an interesting story. interestingtory is to any of us. this is about how the at microsoftw ceo is getting big on super intelligence. he is trying to bring to the for a bunch of chat bots that will supposedly help you in a variety in a variety of business activities. it was introduced at a conference they had earlier this week toward developers.

botd: before they had a that did not behave the way they thought it would. she had the personality of a teenage girl and since these bots learn from what people see, people fed her some nasty stuff. she was out there being racist. talking about things you would not want your bot to be talking about. inappropriate stuff, they took her down. things icloud and security, what is new is a focus on what they think will be the next platform shift in computing, moving a way from apps toward conversation as a wet form. in particular, it chat bots. an ai program that will handle tasks in a humanlike way.

in order to interact with it you text or type or speak. ellen: what was it like? started playing with it a couple weeks ago. it is like a teenager. irreverent, profane. sometimes i did not understand what it was saying. it called selfie and me a old. sometimes it was stressed and she responded don't worry it will be all right. of course, i did not get anywhere near any of the results from last week which caused pull the bot because she was responding with racist comments. carroll: you know it is interesting, microsoft thinks

chat bots will replace apps. microsoft was behind the curve with apps. why should we think it is ahead of the curve with this? it is a little bit self-serving to say we're moving away from apps because microsoft is so poorly. that there is a fair amount of analysts and-- others who might be moving on. facebook has been moving toward apps in its messenger. is wii chat,work which provided the inspiration. an interesting paradigm. arrow: microsoft ceo, he does not even use the bot, does he. >> the teenager's selling

comprehensive to him it might as well be french. at that to him is the point. there will be a lot of different differentred towards people's personalities and need. some social bots and at a target of 18-20 four. some that will talk to you if you're not a millennial in a different way. customer service bots. different implementations, not just one bot that is the right size for everyone. tro: they want to be the platform that owns it all. the platform others use to make their own bot. >> microsoft historically was built one bill gates and paul allen started making the home kit. they have always had 80 developer focus. they want people to use their software and tools to build their own bot and they want you

to use bots within their product. there skype and teleconference products and quartile of. they want people to build -- and cortana. they want people to build with their tools. you can choose to deploy them to other sites or telegram or chat. not just to microsoft products. carol: the man responsible for the art on the cover is the creative direct to your of the magazine. how did you come up with it? >> we had an early discussion to representd how this new generation of artificial intelligent bots. it does not have a body, it sort of exists in space so there is real way to represent this accurately.

we thought of something that was not quite ai. -- clippy.ipping hastorious figure that persisted as a symbol for this thing microsoft tried out the did not work so well. we took him as a character. he is clearly recognizable. he has a paperclip body and large, bulging eyes. toave him to an illustrator set up how he might look in the future. a large brain. and kind of hearing aid large, powerful legs. a larger, smarter clippy. largerthey own skype, so , right?

that, butt think of yes. [laughter] out whatw do you find to make on the covers? >> is sometimes we talk to the artist and see what we can do. we make sure there is no problems with it and if there are not any problems we let them fly and do not think about being literal with everything because as it is you get into that territory you are back to being a microchip. carol: do you ever think about might think of that cover? >> we did not think of it, but given what has happened recently ,ith their bot experimentation i think he would like it and honestly i think it is a pretty laddering torturing of -- a --tty lateraling picture of flattering picture of clippy.

week, ahead on business what comes with being an elite weekend warrior. ♪

>> welcome back to bloomberg businessweek. carol: bloomberg takes a look at some of the top sites. figurewhen you cannot out what private startups are worth. >> the shoot accordance, they need liquidity in the meantime. have been raising capital and private markets and one sources mutual funding. thesere spending on private companies and they need to turn around and then provide a share price to their publicly held traders. carol: good luck with that, right?

?> how much is dropbox worth you are going to get a different answer depending on who you talk to. david: you think of startups and you think of venture capitalists. is this a new thing that mutual funds are getting into this? >> it is not necessarily new but way they ares the plunging into it. it is much higher than the last year or two. if you compared to a venture capital firm, their funding is traded.icly if you are a venture capitalists, you really care if dropbox drops. public mutual funds are very well held in the united states. carroll: and you hope they have transparency. >> if you ask these fund's what they think, they will speak very generally. where other funs are valued.

their actual methodology is none of our's is. ari secret sauce. david: is there a push for more transparency. a law went to know if evaluation of dropbox is not what it is supposed to be. >> yes. i think you have a letter of investors on besides trying to figure out what these companies are worth. in technology we see it happening, trying to figure out what these companies are worth in the long run. i think the discrepancies we see across the mutual funds is reflective of that. carol: next up, california wine country gets stiff competition from some unlikely basis. we'll tell you where you might find the next napa valley. david: in and we will take you inside the grand prix of magic, the gathering. ♪

>> welcome back to bloomberg businessweek. david: carol, have you heard of magic the gathering? l: no not really. they've it: there is a photo essay of magic the gathering. photos of 4000 plus fans who descended on the capitol. i remember the game from high school. carol: it is wizards competing with each other. something like that? ava: yes. some of the cards are worth a lot of money. started in 1993. hasbro bought the game. still very popular all these

years later. of them go for thousands of dollars. but if we wanted to play we could buy them for about four dollars a pack? david: but we would be weighed behind the curve. dan dunne wrote a book called american wino. nightlifermer columnist, doing what nightlife columnist do, drink a lot. for whatever reason, wine never worked for him. remedy that.to he drove 15,000 miles around america, going to at least one winery in each state. i had no idea there was a winery and every state, but they are making wine in each state. he went to one in each state. he went to four of them in wyoming. tryingically what he was

to do is look at the state of wine in america 40 years after got obscure american wine famous french vintages and it is included in his california is still king, but 40 years from now we may be drinking wine from nebraska. one winery he visited, the grapes have to adjust to soil temperatures which range of -10 degrees to 90 degrees. this is obviously going to take maybe 50 years to figure out. beingf these wines are made in extra aim climates. many of them are functional and making money, many of them are a passion project. why they areea putting winds in these places that are not natural for growth.

>> they are explorers. they want to see if it can be done there. in vermont there is an and ibm executive who decided to grow wine there. careers.ond people exploring and experimenting. david: california, washington, oregon, the usual suspects. any place were surprised to find decent wine? vermont, texas hill country, montana, stated she would not think would actually be growing grapes are doing this. sachs next, goldman its top trader. we will tell you why. david: and johnson and johnson dumps its baby business, we will tell you why next.

>> welcome to bloomberg businessweek. i am carol massar. david: and i am david journal. a new method to up your exercise it game. ♪ david: we're back with the policy editor of bloomberg's this week. one article in the policy section about the $15 minimum wage rate hike. that has taken on a significant. nationwide moved to try to get restaurants and service workers up to $15. it has happened in seattle and by 2020 and is

supposed to go up to $20 an hour. and last week, jerry brown announced it would go up to $15 an hour for the whole state. it is being pushed by unions around the country. david: i wonder where that $15 number came from. the push ofs been the union and of president mary kay henry who has gone all-in on this. she has poured millions of dollars into it. it is a controversial move. the people she is targeting and wants to help or not actually union members. so the question is, will it help the union. the people who think she is correct say, you have to think differently about unions. maybe these people will become members of unions even though they are not a union shop. meanwhile, her union mentorship is way down. so it is sort of a question of,

can she save the union? david: a preacher i was working mr. subway stop. give me an example of what you could get him to do if you wanted him to hack the election you are in. what could you get him to do? allen: it was kind of like ordering cable tv. get the premium package or the burglar package. you can get e-mail sent. you could get rudimentary packing. if you wanted to pay $20,000 a month, you got all of that bus the encryption and more advanced hacking. you could pick your package. david: we all talking about the united states presidential election. does he think the election is being hacked? ellen: he is absolutely sure the election is being asked. if you listen to him,