>> the donald is calling himself the lone ranger. >> i am who i am. i am a problem solver. i know how to solve problems. i'm killing everybody. i've been tough. i have very powerful, large hands. relatively large hands. john: on the eve of the

wisconsin primary election, donald trump and ted cruz are arnstorming. saying his personal life has not been in immaculate while the billionaire brand has repeated its usual lying ted routine. the polls show him trailing. ted cruz and donald trump reserve their biggest blows today for john kasich claiming he is us parlor who should no longer be in the race. ted cruz holding a press conference in madison. each making the case that it is a two-way race and that kasich or any other establishment hopeful has no business competing at the national onvention. >> i said kasich should get out. normally i would not say that. he's just like a stubborn guy. he is stubborn. he doesn't want to listen.

let me tell you, he hurts me much more than he hurts cruz. a recent poll came out where i get many more of his votes and ted cruz gets. >> at the convention they will parachute in some white knight who will save the washington establishment. it is nothing less than a pipe dream. it ain't gonna happen. will a thousand cruz delegates go vote for some uber washington lobbyist who hasn't been on the allot? mark: is senator john kasich hurt more by staying in the race? >> donald trump said that i need to get out of the race because i'm getting his voters.

no, i got news for him. i'm going to get a heck of a lot of his voters, ok? that's what is going to appen. the reason why i'm going to get his voters is because i understand exactly what his voters are worried about. they are worried about their job is not secure. john: we know why ted cruz wants kasich out. is donald trump going out of him out of strategery? mark: in the northeast, i still think there are people who believe rightly that on kasich may take more votes from donald trump. trump needs the majority now. kasich represents a threat in the northeast. the other reason kasich is a threat is the more delegates he accumulates, the more he is in the race, the more it is a possibility that on the third or

fourth ballot it could go to kasich. donald trump needs kasich out to increase his chances of being the nominee. john: there is no doubt, trump is just annoyed. he's using the same weird language like this person should not be allowed to run. the key point you're making is the notion that in these northeastern states, kasich is going to take almost exclusively votes from trumptr. has appeals to moderates in the northeastump that cruz does not ave. i think you are 100% right on the strategic level. donald trump needs those moderate votes to win those states against cruz.

john: it's a chance is willing to take right now and i think he's right. on the show on friday we deemed last week probably the worst of donald trump's entire campaign. since then, the republican front-runner has been all over the place. this week he gave interviews to two sunday shows. the washington post published a transcript between donald trump nd bob woodward. he gave another interview to the new york times during which the man who does not usually apologize admitted it was a mistake to infamous for retweet and unflattering photo of ted cruz's wife. is he in more or less control of his image in a positive way than when we last spoke about this friday?

john: i think marginally ess. i don't think any of this profusion of words has done anything to get him more in control of his public image. i'm not a communications adviser, but it seems to me that the better course would be to make a couple of very carefully controlled appearances or do some controlled interviews to try to reset. instead, he does what he always does, and the profusion of words were too diffuse for him to try to reclaim the control he should have been trying to reclaim after his bad week last eek. mark: the two things that are hurting him more over the past 72-96 hours, he keeps talking about his family wants him to be more presidential, and then he doesn't do it. he is highlighting the fact that

he is ignoring the advice that a lot of people have given. when he is done well, he's talked about trade, the border, killing isis, beating isis. he is now giving these wide-ranging interviews where he says something that could be popular and some things that people would think perfectly sensible, but they are not getting coverage. what is getting him coverage are the three are for things that are driving him way off ase. john: it has not hurt him much, as we have observed 100 times. in the areas in which he is not well prepared, the abortion thing is the best example, all of it has created the impression of indiscriminate flailing. mark: the bell rang.

john: in 2008, voters learned about representation. this year we are getting a tutorial on the delegate process. he still has a strong lead in the number of delegates collected. 736 delegates followed by ted cruz at 463. kasich is pretty far behind at 143. while the donald trump campaign says it's ready for the delegate wrangling game, cruz forces have reportedly outmaneuvered the gop front runner in other states like tennessee and louisiana. when it comes to delegate allocation itself, do you think trump is in a better or worse position than last week? mark: far worse. more important, i can say you this is what i can tell you what

is going on in republican and conservative circles, it's becoming increasingly acceptable to roll trump at the convention. it is within the rules to take it away from him, he of to ted cruz or kasich or someone else, and that is pure danger. after tomorrow if he does not get any delegates are a handful in wisconsin, i don't think he will get a majority. he was doing fine on this front of couple of weeks ago. conventional wisdom was, if you try to take it from him, there will be rioting in the streets. john: i think in the end, he loses because a lot of the establishment who run the media don't want him to have the nomination. he loses because the media is rooting for a contested onvention. mark: the majority is the majority, perfectly

acceptable. john: and trump is looking incompetent, which is another thing the media does not like. he is running an incompetent campaign. the only thing that matters is actual delegate accumulation, and he is losing those, too. mark: we are constantly updating ur delegate tracker. here is a cheeseheads rector. what happens if hillary clinton ins of winning the wisconsin primary tomorrow? we will talk to -- will talk about the implications of that hypothetical, right after this.

mark: bernie sanders maintaining his badger state lead over hillary clinton, 51%-33%. it matches the conventional wisdom. there is the cbs tracking poll that showed a much tighter race than that. in the online poll, bernie sanders is up only 2%. that got us thinking, what if hillary clinton pulls a come from a hide when in wisconsin? how would it change the contours of the race if she does? john: it would change the contours of the race a great deal. the matter what happens tomorrow, bernie sanders has a nearly insurmountable deficit in delegates, but there will be a big fight in new york with hillary clinton. where he set expectations or his campaign said if he doesn't when

he cannot be the campaign nominee, if he loses now, stick a fork in that thing, it is over. mark: sophisticate's in brooklyn are just waiting for the moment, specific members of congress will start calling for him to drop out. they want to marginalize him. they want the contest to not be make or break, not to be seen as test of hillary clinton's ompetence. they want that moment, and they could get it if she wins. i don't know how close the race is. i do know that even if sanders wins, he has a bit of a problem. public polls show him winning by low double digits. he had better when big or he will not have the momentum in new york that he really needs. the clinton people will say he did not pick up enough delegates. john: i'm always on the line of a win is a win, most of the time.

the conventional wisdom -- i heard the bell this time. mark: and yet you are still talking. john: the clinton wisdom is -- he still manages to fall short. two republicans who are willing to break with their party amid the supreme court justice tandoff. they have now reversed their position. they are now against holding hearings for the presidents. senator kelly ayotte says she will meet next wednesday. is this a long shot going to a no shot? mark: i'm not saying it is a death knell, but up until now, the white house has had forward progress. most every development has been n their favor. these two senators reversing course and saying no hearing, i

think makes it clear how much pressure is being put on all republican senators both by leadership and the grassroots to say no hearing. i don't know there will ever be a hearing. john: i have always thought that it some point the republicans would cave and in-depth having to give this man a hearing and voting him down if that was their choice. increasingly think it's the case that it's suicidal from the republican standpoint. mark: it shows once again the republican party is in an echo chamber of conservative media. they should listen to their voters and make the decisions they want to. they are courting trouble, as you suggested. i think it is appointed no return. connell and grassley said no hearing. they are the canary in the coal mine to say this is moving against the white house now.

john: i think that's right. mark: we are just a stone's throw away from our guest, roger stone. alex riker and many others coming up on the program. join us right here after these words from our sponsors.

john: last night was the finale of the nomination fight part of the circus. next couple of months will be taking a break before coming back on the air this summer before the convention area for this week's episode we brought alex wagner to join us with mark mckinnon on the campaign trail in the badger state. alex got the chance to talk to some bernie sanders supporters that we are now calling the bernie badgers. >> we are at the badgers for bernie headquarters in madison, wisconsin. his is the installation of the sanders campaign. grassroots, young, fired up, optimistic. that is the movement. anyone in this room i decided? i'm kidding. how are you guys feeling about tuesday? >> i'm feeling better every day. > wisconsin is a big deal. it is a primary state that could play a pivotal role. >> not only the birth of the progressive movement was here but the birth of mccarthyism was here.

>> statistically it's the most polarized state in the country. >> because of that polarization -- >> only one is going to be the nominee. so what is going to happen? >> are you saying if he is not the nominee? >> that is the question that hillary supporters never get. >> we have attracted so many groups that normally don't vote. the question is, if the candidate has inspired you to get involved and is no longer in the race, what is the likelihood that you will just fall in line with the party? >> it is tough for a lot of people. as a right now i am for bernie. >> is a very strong emotional core that is central to the organizing efforts in the campaign.

they are confident about madison. i think they are going to win. john: that from wisconsin and joining us now through the magic of television we are here with alex wagner. thanks for coming on this show, having been on that show. >> i'm just following you guys where ever you have a broadcast, i want to be part of it john: you spent much time following bernie sanders and also hillary clinton. give us your sense on how it is haping up. >> i liken it to an engagement. you ask the betroth, what are you going to do if the marriage doesn't work out? they don't want to think about the possibility that bernie sanders does not get the nomination. you're still talking to massive crowds of very engaged young people who see a stark difference between the two democratic candidates. right now they are full steam ahead. they are officially the badgers

for bernie, not just olloquially. mark: we saw some of that in the clip. the sanders supporters tend to be the most well-informed people i have ever talked to in politics. why has that manifested itself? >> for a lot of them, it's the first time they've been engaged in a national political contest and they are really informed. one of the people there found out about bernie sanders from the bbc. they are getting their media from different sources and going deep dive. we went to a bunch of bernie sanders events in wisconsin and he gets into the issues. it's almost like a common response. i liken it to a revival. they are going to hear the good word. it is almost scripture to the sanders followers. mark: and they know a time about the delegate process.

>> that is dangerous for clinton. they are talking about pledged delegates or superdelegates. i think there's going to be a bigger circling of the wagons and a more prolonged process that happens before that. john: this is like a web extra. an exclusive that was not in the show that aired last night. we showed you going to a clinton rally and a sanders rally and talking to people in line at both places. a stark difference in terms of level of commitment. compare and contrast that. alex: the clinton event was the last event before leaving the state of wisconsin. it was a good crowd. i went through the crowd asking people what they thought about clinton's chances in wisconsin. literally half the people were still undecided. i love sanders and would love to see a unity ticket.

contrast that the next day at a sanders rally with thousands of people. i was screaming out, is anyone here undecided, and people laughed at me. you literally could not find someone who was thinking maybe i will support hillary clinton. excited, yes, i'm excited. some were almost insulted that i would ask if they were undecided mark:. what happens if this circus moves to new york and he continues to draw the crowds, does that make a difference? alex: he is already pulling huge crowds to new york. every week is another chance for the sanders campaign to claim legitimacy in terms of moving it forward. the more people think this marriage could work out and the harder is going to be for clinton.

i'm not sure any sanders people will effect to donald trump, but i think the heartbreak will be that much more pronounced. john: we've seen her lash out on the campaign trail in frustration. how will she react if she comes to new york and sanders is drawing hundreds? alex: we are starting to see the frustration in the clinton campaign. they want to put this thing away. she wants to tip it and focus on trump and the general. consider the alternative, look at what a trump presidency would mean for the country. you know there is a difference between clinton and trump, so et on board. i know you guys went to a clinton event the day before i arrived in wisconsin and energy was lower there. she is a better campaigner this go around than she was in 2008. she went into this eyes wide

open, knowing it would require stamina and tenacity, and i don't think she has been disappointed. john: if we ask you to come back, would you come back? alex: i will go to the green room and have a rice crispy treat. john: we will be back in a little bit with alex later in the show. in the meantime, donald trump's advisor roger stone is joining us next. you can listen to us on the radio at bloomberg 99.1 fm.

>> sarah palin. >> thank you so much, i am so happy to get to be here. >> even inducing him, seducing them with gift baskets of teddy bears and soccer balls. you are going to make $.50 on ebay. mark: what do you think of wisconsin politics? >> it's a lot like alaskan politics. there is a lot of diversity here. a lot of independents here. he is the embodiment of that independents. mark: should he be nice or competitive? >> hopefully he will be both. to be able to be competitive and have an inherent love and drive for competition.

mark: that was of course sarah palin. talking with us friday night after her speech at eight milwaukee republican party fish fry where she stood in for her candidate, donald trump. joining us is the former and current trump advisor, and the clintons war on women, roger stone. thank you for coming to join s. what is the biggest mistake donald trump has made as a candidate in the last week? roger: that's a question i'm not going to answer. i don't understand the concept of calling for kasich to get out of the race. i think trump benefits from ivided opposition. i don't see delegate votes for kasich moving to trump. i think that would be more likely to go with the establishment candidate, who is now ted cruz.

i don't know that voters in wisconsin are going forward who are attracted to kasich, who is for common core, nafta, the expansion of medicaid. i don't see them being attracted to trump. john: i want to ask you a question about that clip we just watched with sarah palin. mr. trump decided to put her in there. smart move or dumb move? roger: she is popular with elements of the base. on the other hand, wisconsin is a state with furyk evangelical voters. not that conservative estate, generally speaking. i am a fan of sarah palin, although i'm not sure if that was tina fey or sarah palin. john: she is not sure, either. roger: without polling, it's hard to say.

i think donald likes her. she did give him a boost reviously. on the other hand, it's not a state where there is a logical onstituency. he is the master of the eal. if you are 300 votes ahead of everybody else, i can think of a lot of individuals who would like to be vice president and they are not necessarily people who ran previously in the cycle. i still think that puts him in the drivers seat. mark: picking a running mate who's been popular with the delegates and say vote for me on a subsequent ballot. roger: you could break it open before that, depending on your options. trump is a businessman and i think he will keep all options on the table until he decides what is best for him. it is essential to understand that without a reliable hard

count, you cannot really know where you are. until the process plays out, we have the rest of the primaries and caucuses and committee meetings. it's impossible to say what his options are. john: you understand a lot about the delegate selection process to you have written about aspects of chicanery being carried out on a state-by-state basis to try to mess with mr. trump. is the trump campaign competent to deal with that or are they ailing utterly with stemming off that kind of challenge prior to the convention? roger: first of all, the trump strategy has been a communications based strategy. i would have to admit that i was skeptical that this would work, but it has all been built around these massive rallies which got wall-to-wall meeting coverage. his participation in the debates, and as many interviews

as he could jam into his schedule. and it has worked without polling, without analytics, without much television advertising or radio advertising and so on. now we are in a different phase of the campaign where there is a premium on knowledge of rules of rganization. john: so far it seems like they have been losing. anyway they can lose on a state level, it seems like they have lost. roger: you really don't have that many contests. north dakota, not exactly big one, and louisiana. he has 40 votes on the first ballot, but as i wrote for breitbart and the stone zone, he has to be aware of the trojan horse delegates. even those who are compelled to vote for trump on the first ballot based on party rules, with actual individuals who are

hostile to trump on procedural matters such as rules or credentials. mark: if trump comes out of wisconsin with six delegates, is that a warning for what is ahead? roger: it still remains to be seen. it obviously narrows the ath. on the other hand, at least on paper, the weakest of the states going forward. there is a competitive democratic primary going on. certain blue-collar voters will be compelled to vote for bernie sanders on the basis of the trade issue. other than california, though states are not in trump's ackdoor. john: you gave an interview where you said you are planning days of rage in cleveland if the establishment tries to take the

nomination away from donald trump. tell us what that entails. roger: it entails an enormous demonstration. it could entail protest at certain targeted hotels where delegations are staying. john: will tanks be involved? it could just be a show of force. roger: the numbers will count. these are the people the republican party will be losing if they nominate someone other than donald trump. i think we are going to have a massive turnout. mark: where are they all going to stay, roger? roger: we are in negotiations with a couple of colleges that are closed in july and they have normed space we maybe able to rent. most of them cannot even afford bus tickets. mark: always happy to have you in the studio when you are in

town. we will talk to kasey kahne in wisconsin where she's covering the sender's campaign, right after this.

mark: earlier we showed you what bernie sanders supporters in wisconsin are saying. now let's hear from reporters overing the candidate. joined by casey hunt who covers sanders for abc news. she is in milwaukee waiting for a sanders rally tonight. the sanders campaign has to win votes and play the expectation game heading out of there and into new york. what do you get the sense their

expectations are about how they believe wisconsin and moved to ew york? >> i certainly feel like they think they will come out of this with a win, if you listen to sanders earlier today in janesville saying it is clear hillary clinton is nervous. don't tell her that if we win here we could potentially take the white house. clearly they are expecting to have a good night. i think it will become a question of margin and trying to figure out if the clintons believe they were trying to avoid a blowout when they sent her back here over the weekend, or do they actually think they ave a shot at winning. some polling suggests it might be tighter in the final days of the sanders campaign is feeling strong. the biggest question is how it it impacts what happens in new york. the clinton campaign seemingly nervous about that. if he is able to come off a win here and get some momentum and

take that into what are sure to be at this point massive rallies, they are planning quite a few events right in new york city, some of which could be so large that they are giving the city itself some potential headaches and concerns. you are going to see all the cameras pointed at that and in many cases for the first ime. i've been to dozens of the sanders rallies. some will be surprised by the scale of what can happen in new ork. it is her adopted home state and she has a lot of strength bear, but that will be a difficult thing to endure for potentially a long time, pretty much an eternity in politics. ohn: you and i have traveled with them at a time when new was dark on that campaign, after march 15 win sanders lost four out of five states. what do you think the psychological impact would be if they lose wisconsin?

what would that do to the psyche of the candidate and the campaign? >> you remember traveling with them after they lost nevada. they really missed expectations there. if anything, that was probably the most critical turning point for the sender's campaign to ate. i think a lot in wisconsin would have similar consequences, if not larger ones. wisconsin is a must win. if you cannot show he can win wisconsin in a big way, how will he have a shot to win some of the bigger states, not just buy a little bit, but by all a lot? if they cannot come out with that, it's going to be really tough. i think they will come under a lot more pressure from the outside for him to drop out. think the campaign itself

would struggle through that. mark: he largely gives the same style speech. is he trying to plan something new to come into new york with a different strategy and message, or is it just more of the same? >> the question at this point is how sharp does he get against hillary clinton. there's been a lot of grumbling and griping from clinton advisers about his tone. he has not gone as negative as he could have. he had a new jab at hillary clinton, a little sharper in saying it is great she is running around co-opting my message on manufacturing jobs, but she should have been doing that 20 or 30 years ago. otherwise, it is clear he has hit on something that works for him and he likes to stay in that comfort zone. it's the format for the speech and the whole thing. f he is at a coffee shop, it's

because he wants to drink tea with lemon. he is very set in his ways. any major deviation from the stop speech would probably represent a major personality change. mark: where is he going to spend it election night tomorrow and why? >> he will be in laramie, wyoming, which takes a long time to try to get to. the caucuses coming up there next on april 9. they want to demonstrate that they are looking ahead to the next contest and not looking back. they plan to make their actions match their words. mark: up next, a little west of milwaukee to madison for more information about what's going on in the democratic primary. we will be right back after this.

john: once again, alex wagner joins us in the studio. i want to come back to the bernie sanders question. you read the new york times story today, almost like a postmortem. >> they knew they could not run it later on. john: basically the argument was that mistakes were made early on. sanders did not conduct his campaign in a way that served him best. talk about whether that struck you as convincing. >> we all remember that moment in the debate where sanders

said, the country is tired of hearing about your damn e-mails. it was evidence was not going to conduct personal attack politics s usual. now there is a realization and an iteration of this on the campaign trail, bernie sanders is going after hillary clinton, making fun of how shakespearean it must be to garner the amount of money she was paid. there is a sense that he missed an opportunity by not going more personal early on. i'm not entirely convinced that the moment is lost. there is an ongoing fbi investigation about the hillary clinton e-mails. i wonder if given a chance to talk about it once again whether he would shy away from it. john: let's go out to madison

where were joined by someone who knows the badger state very well, a wisconsin native, ruth conniff. we've just been talking about bernie sanders and the arc of his campaign. give us a sense to the extent that sanders seems to be the favorite in wisconsin, why that is. what part of the sanders message is resonating with progressives and democrats in wisconsin more han hillary clinton? >> the editor of the progressive magazine, we have a progressive and strong tradition. a lot of the things bernie sanders talks about are the same things that the founder of the progressive party back in the last century talked about, money and politics, the corrupting and corporate influence and the need for a revival of a true democracy so people can take control of their own government again.

the message here resonates with a long history of that kind of alk. there's a sense that the democratic party has become beholden to the big banks and people don't have a chance to direct policy in a way to serve their interest. i seem sanders talking to younger voters, people carrying massive student debt, an issue that is a huge driver of politics and voter interest in younger age groups now. we used to have essentially free public universities, tuition was so low. if we could do it 50 years ago, hy can we not do it now? i think the clinton messages we need to lower expectations in some sense, though she does not say that specifically. it puts a damper on enthusiasm. that is why you see turnout for sanders. mark: do you think hillary clinton has changed positions

due to the success of senator sanders? >> on the issue of trade, remember when she was running in 2008 against barack obama and john edwards. as she moved into this region of the country, she suddenly began to talk about the ill effects of nafta. she has had a very mixed record on this issue. she was talking about the need not to sign the successor to nafta. she switched positions on the trade issue which resonates in rust belt states. this is where you see trump driving a lot of enthusiasm in this area as well. manufacturing jobs have been lost. some of that was directed by policy and we have a choice about that in this country. >> talk about what you think is going to happen on tuesday.

sanders has a strong ground game in wisconsin. what do you think will come to pass? >> i think the fact that it is an open primary will not be so significant this year. in some years you see republicans voting democratic primaries are democrats voting in republican primaries just to make trouble. they are so focused on their own camps that there will not be a whole lot of that. i think if there is high turnout, sanders will win. i think trump is being given a run for his money by cruz. the only issue in wisconsin is the new voter id law, whether -- students had to get a special form of id to vote, and some do not know that yet. john: thanks for joining us. always a pleasure.

we you come back and take over hosting the show? >> i'm like a roadie selling grilled cheese out of the back of my car. it is american cheese. it melts better. john: up next, for the day, after these words from our sponsors. mark: john, who won the day? john: i would say john kasich won the day, and i will tell you

john: i would say john kasich won the day, and i will tell you why. roger stone said he was more likely to be the nominee than ted cruz. mark: you have lurched uncontrollably into the truth. john: for story about hillary clinton's frustrations with bernie sanders. coming up, italy chang sits down to review the wisconsin primary. until then, we say sayonara. >> leaked files from a law firm say hsbc was one the most active in registering shell companies on behalf of connected clients. the records outline the creation of more than 200,000 offshore companies. shell companies can be legal and can also be used to hide wealth. california and new york acted to gradually push the statewide minimum wages to $15 an hour, the highest in the nation. new york will do the same by the end of 2019. ahead of tomorrow's wisconsin primary, and ted cruz leads donald trump by 10 percentage points in the latest polling. trump saying if he did not have kasich, i would automatically win. a new study on air travel quality says more flights are arriving on time and airlines are losing fewer bags. the highest level since 2000. flight cancellations, delays and asked her fees are the top frustrations. local news, 24 hours a day and more than 150 news bureaus around the world. next is "bloomberg west."

>> it's tuesday, april 5. you're watching "trending business." ♪ in tokyo, singapore, manila this hour. japan leads asia down, falling for a sixth day and heading toward its lowest since the end of february. the yen trading close to an 18-month high. there are plans to kick-start the slumbering economy and he intends to upload the