>> from our studios in new york city. this is charlie rose. rose: john kerry is here. he's the 68 secretary of state. after 28 years in the senate he succeeded hillary clinton in 2013. he brokered a landmark nuclear deal with iran. according to the new yorker carries admirers and critics alike describe him in similar terms. optimistic and dogged, undaunted by risk. get thed that if he can

relevant parties into the room he can make a deal. i am pleased to have john kerry on this program. does that sound true to you? john kerry: no. it is obviously more complicated than that. life,verything in public people try to simplify it. put it in a bottle. define it in very limited terms. it is much more complex. charlie: you were the chairman of the senate foreign relations committee. you know foreign policy. what surprises you about the execution of policy? living in awe are completely different world from the one that i grew up in. most of the last century was defined by state actors.

territory orr dominion, empire, whatever. that changed when the berlin wall fell and with the demise of the soviet union. of presidentption clinton's adventuring crimea most of this century is already being defined by nonstate actors. principally radical religious extremism. massive also seen a squeezing of the universe into a smaller ball. because of technology. because of trade and the massive amount of interconnectedness of all of our economies today. many many people

are running around with smartphones but no education. no opportunity. no jobs. no rights within their countries. the consulates of that is a disgruntled nature. a clash of cultures. the absence of opportunity. .hat explodes it exploded with a fruit vendor in tunisia who live himself on fire and ignited the whole northern part of africa. that is what we are dealing with. it is in south-central asia. government.er one of the things i have discovered is the breadth of bad governance which feeds that. corruption is an enormous

problem on a global basis. that are whole states seeing their future robbed by so-called leaders. by the way, with the aiding and abetting of legitimate banks that harbor their money. charlie rose: you were almost a successful presidential candidate. john kerry: but for a certain state called ohio. charlie rose: when you look at the world today you can see it being defined by nonstate actors. our largestke isis and toughest and most challenging national security kerry: it is the most immediate. .hey are out to kill people they have targeted us. they are targeting our allies and our friends. they are creating severe

disruption in the region. where we have significant interests for stability. ofy are feeding frenzy thattial sectarian divide could grow even more dangerous. rose: general betray us once said to me if we are not winning we are losing. are we losing? are not.y: no we are aggressively making .rogress with respect to isil they haven't gained any territory since last may at least. they are losing their leadership at the top level perhaps one every three days. they lost 40% of the territory they held in syria. they lost 20% of the territory. assadssians together with took back home era.

charlie rose: when will we liberate him ozone? mosul? john kerry: soon i hope. i can't tell you when the main events will be engaged. that is up to the military folks. know that is a focus of effort and it will happen and we will succeed. charlie: are you getting what you need from the government? john kerry: the prime minister has a norm us pressures. for the most part he is really working unbelievably hard to deliver. he has a very difficult hand. there are shia militia there.

putting enormous pressures and hurdles in the way. the old ex prime minister continues to maneuver behind the scenes and make life difficult. there is a relationship with iran. it is collocated. complicated. made very tough decisions. he was the key to helping to liberate ramadi. we're moving up into akbar. nbar. on the military side i think we will stay on the right track. charlie: you don't think iraq will end up in partition? how kerry: i don't know that works anymore. some of the difficulties of uniting it.

i think we are not for that. we believe that a united iraq and the united states are the way forward. charlie: what is our present attitude toward president assad? you and i both have been to syria when he was viewed as a kind of a possible reformer. john kerry: he lost the opportunity. as the foreign minister said on occasion he made mistakes. not recognizing what was happening throughout the region. he met them with thuggery. the parents came out and he made

sure they were met with bullets and violence. the result was the beginning of the tearing apart of syria. even if united states or someone go ahead you try to make a government. you could make it happen. not make it happen. he could help an orderly transition. long does he have? john kerry: that is part of the negotiating process. the russians say they are not wedded to a side. they want stability. they want a united syria. they want the institutions of the government to hold together. they worry that a sudden departure of a side could

country and you have problems with the military and problems with others. the problem is that a side has assad has gassed his own people. that is against the laws of war. he has tortured his own people. he has started his own people e. whether it is dropping barrel bombs on civilians or gassing euro and people and putting 12 million of them into displaced person status. either refugees were in that country. how can you turn around and say

i am the guy to unite this country. it is not going to happen. saudi's whod the are the principal supporters of members of the opposition will not stop supporting opposition that will not stop fighting. so if you are serious about ending the war. you have absolutely no choice but to find a way to have face-saving in certain quarters and see a side exit in an orderly structured way. charlie: those are important words. you've got to have something to succeed him. kerry: that is exactly what we are working on in geneva. that is the principle around which the geneva talks are organized. there will be a transition by mutual consent and both parties compromise to put people in place who manage the affairs of state until there is a new constitution and an election. ultimately the people of syria ratified their new leadership

and the constitution through a referendum. there are very qualified people who i think karen earn the respect of all parties. charlie: what does vladimir putin want? syriaerry: he wants a that is whole and secular and united. that is exactly why we came and therefore organized the conference is indiana and new york and be in make to push for the cessation of hostilities and try to get to the transition. their goal and iran's goal openly about is to have united syria that is not sectarian. ante.s quo on

can unitership that the country and move it forward. iran said we are willing to have a unity government. a new constitution. and elections. ultimately pulling hezbollah out is part of the negotiation. charlie: have they been helpful? coming out of assigned to nuclear deal? kerry: iran signs onto both communiques in vienna. they have supported the munich and declaration which reaffirms our desire to have a transition and move forward. iran effectively had a similar plan. there is a difference of opinion

isut what the transition defined as. embracedple they have the basic solution. what remains to be seen as if they will be helpful. charlie: with that of been possible without the iran nuclear deal? john kerry: no. we have a channel today to be in the communicate directly which we did not have two years ago. charlie: you have a phone call you can make as when the boats were captured. john kerry: we would not have known protocol before. there was no relationship.

charlie: iran and russia and the united states have shared goals? kerry: we have shared goals that we also have real differences. the challenge is to try to manage those. we ran into the challenge of chemical weapons use in syria. betweenconversation president putin and president obama that talked about what other options might be or whether or not there was a way to get the weapons out. shaped ately agreement. for the removal of all the chemical weapons.

even as we were in controversy with russia on almost every other issue. charlie: address this idea that by crossing the red line as a symbolic act it has been a message to boot and a message to the iranians and others that you could cross the red line without consequences. all of those countries communicated that to you rather quickly. john kerry: the president of the united states barack obama made his decision and made it public. there was never an issue of the president deciding he wasn't going to bomb. the president decided particularly after david cameron went to parliament and lost the vote only two days previously that as we listened to the congressmen and senators on the telephone as we were briefing them. they said you are going to come to us aren't you?

there are some advisers who said we didn't have to go to congress. president felt that it was important particularly in the wake of what happened in great britain with parliament's boat that he was going to honor our constitution and go to congress. we thought we would have very quick approval. we were surprised that it was not quick approval. i floatedntime publicly in london the idea is there any way a side can avoid an attack i said yes get the chemical weapons out of syria. within a week or two we had a deal. charlie: he said i have to think about it.

john kerry: i think the russians helped him think about it. charlie: the president says he is proud of that decision. are you? john kerry: yes. the president achieved more than we would've achieved if we had bombed. it would've been one day or two ays at which point a assad would say this is why we need those weapons. and today some of those weapons might be in the hands of isil. we wound up getting a better result. offident obama never backed from the notion that he was prepared to bomb.

the government called for the president on the evening of friday and he informed me what his thinking was. i supported that. we need to communicate to congress to get congress to support what we are doing. charlie: there's a famous article in the atlantic by jeffrey goldberg talking about the obama doctrine. it suggests that you have been advocating a more aggressive action in syria and in the middle east than the president is prepared to take. can you clear that up for me? have you recommended more military use and more engagement? kerry: it is entirely inappropriate for me or other people to be talking about the advice we are giving a president while we are still serving and giving the president advice.

the president has a right to know that the conversations we have remain confidential. i honor that. charlie: you talk about philosophically. that thecle points out president really fears getting engaged. john kerry: the president doesn't fear it. he is a very tough decision maker. he asks really tough questions. i have been impressed by that. he goes right to the nub of the issue. what theto figure out consequences and effects are decisionbe of any consequenc that he makes. put to the have not president to the full breadth of some of the options that might be available. charlie: what is that mean?

kerry: there are times where the president is clear about what he's trying to achieve and it takes a direction. you can have a difference of opinion with respect to one piece of action. but i have never differed with the president on the fundamental direction. he initiated bombing of isis immediately. i believe he saved iraq at that moment and made the difference from baghdad. then he began to demand from everybody were the options on how we're going to fight this war. i think we have all learned is the process has gone on refinements in the ways in which

isil moreht - effectively. the foreign fighters is a new phenomenon. charlie: those who go to syria and come back to paris and brussels. kerry: i think that the trick and the challenge of it is how do we deal with that flow of people in both directions. we worked extremely hard with our european friends about airports and names and passenger list. scrutiny. the border of turkey has been an enormous challenge. we think there is still more that could be done. the meeting this week taking place.

between the united states and our turkish allies to we will be talking about how we can do more. charlie: here in palmera, the assad regime taking it back. russia came in and propped him up and use them. john kerry: he is clearly stronger than he was. that doesn't change the fundamental dynamic. if you're going to end the war. you can't do it with us out there. charlie: before you enter the war he has got to be gone. kerry: the war will not come to a complete ending if

aside against the wishes of the lord jenkins lord bettman and there in very. the opposition will not fight and fighting because of what he they are nota gun going to suddenly disappear. assad is in a stronger position they still have to transition. charlie: you spent hours with vladimir putin. what does he want? he wants russia to be respected. ?hat else

john kerry: i don't claim to be intelligent. i think he is strategic. and tactical. sometimes more tactical than strategic. he wants his point of view acknowledged as to certain degree his interests reciprocated. there are limits. the crimea is not changing. you think there is

reason to believe that crimea can be taken back from russia? john kerry: there is reason to believe that depending on how the crimea feel about it they some resolution with respect to whether they are part of ukraine or not. it is not going to go away. ukraine is not going to say, go ahead and keep it. that is not the cards. right now the fight is over ukraine. i think president putin feels that the united states abused the process in libya. he reminds us every moment. there is a long list of things. what we need to do is find a way for president putin have an opportunity to meet the demands

of the united nations security council. live up to his obligations under the minsk agreement. that is what you test. my job in diplomacy is to try to take what someone says and test whether it is something real. especially when you are looking for an outcome that is structured and peaceful and productive. likely have to find some road that is not perfect. but that finds a way to get there. in the case of president putin, he says that he is prepared to be a part of the solution with respect to syria. everybody doubted whether russia would play any constructive role whatsoever with respect to the cessation of hostilities. we got a cessation of hostilities. notwithstanding.

because they play a positive role. that, weadn't done would not have an agreement with iran. not have gotten a chemical weapons deal out of syria. they would be in the hands of my soul today. today. the job is not yet done. there is a difficult road ahead. this could crumble very easily. the opposition may decide they are not serious about a transition. ♪

assume that it works. the nuclear deal continues to hold. would that be the crowning achievement of john kerry as secretary of state? john kerry: others have to judge that down the road. i have got at this with the notion that every day i am there is an opportunity to try to get something done. working very hard to push the middle east peace process forward. we have worked now on so many different areas. we are working on the sudan. we are working on yemen. libya, korea. the south china sea. still afghanistan.

charlie: are the talib and continuing to make gains? john kerry: they have made some gains. it is fair to say that the afghan army has also indicated great capacity to stand his ground and fight. they are learning and getting better. charlie: turning quickly to china. including great fears how to protect nuclear weapons among countries that hold them. are the chinese prepared to help us with respect to north korea? kerry: they have helped recently. the un security council resolution where he had a standoff for a. of time, china evaluated it very carefully. they moved quite significantly and so we have a much tougher resolution than we ever have before. now the trick is to make sure that it is fully implemented.

we are working on the implementation. i believe there is possibly still more china could do. i think president obama feels that way also. china is the key. china has the lifeline financial relationship to north korea. the lifeline geographical situation. the lifeline on fuel. the question is one of the question is what are they prepared to do. charlie: american politics proceeds without you being involved. what do foreign leaders say to you about what they see in american politics? john kerry: they are very concerned. a great anxiety. they are anxious about the certainty that they have had about united states policy. i will give you an example.

when donald trump talked about korea and japan going out and getting their own nuclear weapons i can't think of anything that would be more volatile, more contrary to peace and stability in the region, more contrary to the fundamental commitment of every president since world war ii to try to minimize the risk of nuclear weapons and minimize the number of people who have them. here is a guy running for president who says let them go get the weapons. it is beyond provocative. that absence of continuity and stability with american traditions. with risk assessment. with calculated strategy. it is a profound challenge to the relationship. charlie: what if donald trump should somehow become the nominee? . kerry: i am not going to go down that road. suffice it to say there is great

, peopleeverywhere i go saying what is happening in the united states, what is happening in your politics. charlie: that it is happening in europe to. too. john kerry: there is a move to the right. but you don't see people saying countries should go out and get nuclear weapons. you don't see the assault on nato. nato is very important to the effort to hold the migration at bay. things, when people see a potential nominee of a party starting to talk that way they get nervous. charlie: your relationship with the president. there have been great secretary of state president relationships. wasbaker and george bush

the best he could hope for. henry kissinger and richard nixon and gerald ford. his foreign policy conceived at the state department or the white house? john kerry: it is always a combination. i have been watching that relationship for 28 years. i always knew that one of the first rules is don't get into startquabbles and don't fighting. you are there to serve the president. both of us. the national security advisor and the secretary of state. it makes sense to be a team. we are a good team. the entire team. everybody worked together. it is too early for retrospectives. thei will tell you

president has given me enormous latitude. he has trusted me. he has given the enormous scope to go out and try something. too.put him at risk theve used respect for president's strength. and letting someone else go out and do something. involved in the details of the iran agreement. he knew exactly what he could tolerate politically and otherwise. he made the final cut on whether we were willing to go with this or not. he deserves the credit for it. in 2004 there was a senator from massachusetts who is having a nominating convention. john kerry: it didn't quite turn out the way i intended. charlie: the man he chose and gave national prominence to with that keynote speech became the president. thought all the

potential was there. the potential to be a future president. i just didn't think that i would wind up working for him. it has been terrific. i have no complaints. it is a fabulous job. i was thought this was the best job in government. president? than john kerry: yes. i don't have to go out and raise unbelievable amounts of money. charlie: one last question. with the things you spent a lot of your time on which is the israeli-palestinian issue. you really went all out. he wanted you to go see what you can do.

in the end you didn't do it. have you given up hope? kerry: i don't see the time to negotiate out a final status agreement. i do think it is possible to get something started. get something moving in which vision foray out a where you are going and perhaps get the parties together and have some confidence building measures. some efforts for instance in the west bank. the area controlled by israel. build up to palestinian capacity. i think you could do more on security and economic development. wheren build a horizon there are some expectations for what has to be achieved and begin to quite things down and give people some confidence and

hope that there is within that framework the kernels of possible negotiations. you can't just plunk down and start to negotiate tomorrow. i do think there are definitive steps that could be taken. we have nine or 10 more months. president obama will always welcome something that is real. this isident's view of think has been sadly misinterpreted. .y lots of people he would love to see something happen. doesn't have a conviction at this point that people are really serious and prepared to move in any direction. one thing began to come apart two years ago. appropriately skeptical about whether people

are serious. the president will always be prepared to embrace something that is real. and he cares about this enormously. securityt is vital to of an ally, israel. vital to the region. vital to us. it, it leaves great uncertainty about the capacity for stability and peace in that region. charlie: what you worry about the most? kerry: i worry about the gap between the massive numbers of young people in various parts of the world and particularly in the middle east and the north of africa and south central asia. where they know with the rest of the world has and they don't have it. they know they don't have it.

social media allows them to know it. they see the connectedness. they are not connected to anything. picking right for the of some kind of radicalization. for the moment that has become a extreme elements of islamic distortion. that is putting many people at risk. there arery about is hundreds of millions of kids in afca and the region who need to be educated. not 10 years from now. tomorrow. if you leave them without opportunity and with bad governance and corruption surrounding them and the only thing coming at them is a drumbeat of distortion of religious belief that can be dangerous for everybody. challengee greatest

we face in terms of security today. when someone can be built into a killing machine who thinks it is better to go be dead than to be alive and they are prepared to take a lot of people with them that could be a dangerous world. we have to rise more to the challenge of preventing that. against it. a very old process of engaging so they cans deliver the services that are wanted and the system that can transform those economies. it is not all doom and gloom. millions of people in india and china have been brought into the middle class. there is huge amount of growth out there. if you get away from the

headlines of violence and it is hard to do that, there is actually less violence and fewer numbers of people being killed in the world than there were in the last century. you have to measure this. there are diseases being cured. opportunities being created that some people thought would never exist. a really positive side to all this. also a really dangerous side. charlie: are we using all the tools we can in terms of andomic development assistance we might be able to lend in terms of her own technology. in order to have an influence in the world. we are using everyone that we have been able to put together in terms of serious budget limitations. can do much more

with more resources. we are dealing with a budget deal that the congress insisted on and limitations that have been placed on our ability to do these things. that is a very important subject needs to be built out. i will come back. charlie: thank you mr. secretary. what hillary clinton is elected and asks you to stay on? john kerry: my plan is to finish out to this term and to write a book. a book is one option. i have to think about it. good to be with you. charlie: secretary of state john kerry. stay with us. we will be right back. ♪

charlie: tina brown is here. she is the founder and ceo of tina brown media. she launched the women in the world summit. discussing timely issues. women from around the world. the seventh annual summit takes place this week in new york city. there.ailing will be the first lady of afghanistan. christine lagarde. when you set out what you intending to do? i have been working a lot with vital voices which

mentors women in emerging countries. i kept meeting these incredible feisty formidable women. that nobody ever heard from in this country. they got me so excited again about what is to be a woman taking on huge challenges. feminism in america at that moment felt very dormant. these women were making me a feminist for the first time. how great would it be to bring them to new york and give them their own platform. give them some space and time. charlie: the purpose is to celebrate women. isn't it amazing what women are doing around the world? about seeings also the world through the eyes of women. these are the women who lived behind the lines of the news. see the headlines. you don't really feel what it is like to be a woman in syria or a

woman in pakistan who can't get education for hurricane. a woman trying to get inclusion in saudi arabia. to bring these women who are so vibrant and have these amazing personal stories to the stage was really the concept of the narratives. to use these women to open our eyes about the world. charlie: they are both famous and not so famous. toa brown: it is important have that combination. people won't comment it is a host of names they don't know. streep was there year one. they had come back every year. aey wanted to bring their spotlight. there is a kind of solidarity and women start to feel a certain point in their careers. they compare their own paths to what must be like to be a woman with absolutely zero inclusion

of any kind. culture is so much against them and so anyways. it is very scary. what is very interesting i find is the sense of paradox in the world. on the one hand, you have in india women marching on the and creating women entrepreneurs. at the same time marital rape is legal. it gets pushed back every time it is brought to discussion. is a man's privilege and the right to rape his wife and use her sexually in any way he wants because it is not against the law. you have these great things that are happening but also you can't get change. it happens again and again. in afghanistan we have the first lady of afghanistan coming to the summit. we opened to the summit with an

afghan wrapper. rapper. she was supposed to be a child bride but she got away. charlie: women from other religions are raped and the belief on the part of these people that it is ok. but men have the religious right to do this. tina brown: it is so painful. in so many places that is true. women are treated like dogs and their own country. it is very distressing. their own families. in pakistan they are still trying to get a bill passed to outlaw the fact that men who committed honor killings can be forgiven by the communities and walk free. in kurdistan you get three months for an honor killing. if you kill your daughter for marrying a man you didn't

like you get three months. i miss a feisty iranian blogger. jab off.ing the hi sings on herwoman own a man has to sing over her. doesn't that say volumes? she has some grand mufti figure coming around and singing over her. that is the kind of little exchange that happens with women in the world. green room is this marvelous cross-cultural combination between the united nations and woodstock. all these women discovering things about each other. is very exciting. kaling: what is mindy doing there.

brown: she has many interesting things to say about what she is doing in movies and tv. we have kerry washington they are to talk about the movie about anita hill. she is playing her in the film. it is interesting to think about anita hill in the context of this new supreme court moment. how much time has passed since when the wholey anita hill case came up. what it did to the whole law of sexual harassment. in the end she is going to be such a celebrated figure because she didn't want to testify she went back into complete silence afterward. a cable tv ask to be host or a reality tv show star. she just had to tell the truth about what it felt like to be sexually harassed. she paid a huge price. she did huge thing for american women. two years ago i launched the american justice summit.

that was conceived because i felt outrage about what was happening in rikers island. i was so upset. the amount of mentally ill people that are abused in the criminal justice system. in thishe people correctional facility are mentally ill. we treat these persons as a kind of debtor's prison or a garbage pail for the mentally ill. it is so deeply upsetting. as police brutality cases began to come up with the videotapes that were revealing it. this other world where young black men are so singled out and profiled and abuse. it really made us feel that we must now do something about this. unsung voices of women. these voices are also unsung. huge interest. it has become a real topic a. we are growing that.

i feel that it is a vital master to keep that spotlight on. this the kind of tina brown we will see, the entrepreneur? rather than editing magazines? tina brown: these of the things that turn me on at this moment in my career. i do see the summits that we are doing as experiential publishing. i program it as a magazine. the excitement of our summit is to be more to go from a conversation with mindy kaling to conversation about how turkey is sliding back into authoritarianism and to despotism through the eyes of women. is that mix that i used to bring to a magazine that i eded. i now bring it to these live events. and a stronging -- bit digital presence. a strong digital platform as we

go forward. we have now developed this amazing network over seven years. there is hardly a woman that i can't locate when the news blows up. charlie: tina brown, a great champion of women. the summit is here in new york. thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪