erik: i am mark halperin. julie: and i'm john heilemann. every time you think you have gotten out, they keep pulling you back in. john: happy good friday, sports fans. i say good friday because what a good newsday it has been. hypothetical situation. you're running for president and the pope invites you to the vatican to give a speech. wwbsd. >> that is kind of impressive.

invited by the vatican to go speak. >> the invitation was made public today. i am a big fan of the pope. obviously, there are areas where we disagree on women's rights and gay rights, but he has ofyed an unbelievable role injecting a moral consequence into the economy. john: let's call that the before video. now to the after video. it turns out sanders will be speaking at an academic conference sponsored by the pontifical academy. the vatican is saying the pope was not responsible for the invite. he does not have set plans to meet with the senator. as first reported by bloomberg, the president of the academy is saying the sanders campaign reached out first for the invitation and said the campaign showed "monumental discourtesy during discussions about the conference." and it is not even good timing for sanders. it is april 15, the day after the debate in brooklyn with hillary clinton and a few days

before the new york primary which is kind of a big deal especially for bernie sanders. there is a lot of internal stuff going on in vatican city. just focusing on this one question, is this a good use of bernie sanders' time flying off to rome? erik: unless he gets a meeting with the pope. me. is a clickable to there are a lot of disputes about whether he is invited or not whatever. theink he's sort of likes notion of being invited by some arm of the vatican to go. jew that he is. [laughter] go 48 hours before a campaign -- primary must-win, it seems ill-advised. whether he was invited or lobbied for an invitation -- matt: we have images of him standing under the sistine

chapel with the pope. john: before these controversies broke out, i looked at this and said this is a long trip. this is a must when primary for him. foreign maybe helps his policy credentials. the pope has become a liberal icon in some ways. mark: if he got a photo with the pope, i would say would be barely worth it. john: if you loses the new york primary by a point or two having york,two days out of new if he loses this primary by a point, people will say that is the dumbest decision he has ever made. veteranday, the republican strategist made his television debut as the front runner's beltway honcho and delegate wrangler with his interview with "cnn today." >> the reality is ted cruz has

seen his best day. the reality is this convention process will be over sometime in june, probably june 7. it will be apparent to the world everything will come together. to 1237?ink trump gets why the confidence? >> because i know the votes. mark: that suit, that hair. the state convention in colorado is this weekend. it is being talked about another sign the trump campaign has been outmaneuvered by ted cruz in amassing delegates. assuming his hiring is a writing of the ship, does he not have -- does he have enough time to right the delegation ship? john: let's pause and note that video of paul manafort, we have not seen much of paul manafort.

it is a bit like a bigfoot sighting on cnn. i think it might be too late. he is a very smart man. he understands a lot of things. he knows this game. ted cruz has stolen a march on donald trump. in terms of what has to happen cruz peopleate, the thank yo are working this problem. paul manafort is coming in late to try to save the day on this friday. mark: it is so possible people are focused on his role that it is possible with his help they over.t trump can get 60% if kasich and cruz do not improve the games of northeast and california, if you can win indiana he can get well enough over, he can do it. john: it is a little bit dodging the question. the truth is what we are focused on with paul manafort is him as

a convention manager. 1237 it uprump gets the last contest or shortly thereafter, that is possible. a strong electoral performance by trump will make tom effort unnecessary. mark: you need to win in a way to maximize the chances people show up in cleveland rally to vote for you. john: he maybe too late to help on the backend. i like that we agreed about that. who is the strongest challenger to donald j. trump, billionaire? is it lying ted? what about ryan, paul? asked repeatedly about being a so-called white night for republicans in the case of a deadlocked convention, who, me? no way. not interested. not going to happen. and yet today, his office released this video from that starting speech -- stirring

speech on capitol hill last month. the headline on drudge report "ryan launches first campaign ad?" take a look. >> what bothers me most about politics these days is this notion of identity politics. that we are going to win an election by dividing people rather than inspiring people on our common humanity, common ideals, and common culture, the things that should unify us. we all want to be prosperous. we all want to be healthy. we want everybody to succeed and reach their potential. liberals and conservatives are going to disagree. no problem. that is what this is all about. let's have a battle of ideas. let's have a contest of whose ideas are better and why our ideas are better. ♪ time we have talked on this show about possibility

of ryan is a white knight, people get really upset. it will never happen. if he is really sincere about that, what is he doing releasing videos like that? mark: paul ryan said he would be the model of a modern major leak speaker of the house using the trappings like foreign trips and well polished videos that look a lot like what a president of candidate would do. he's not doing anything to actually position himself. these are sophisticated people. they know when they put a video out like that what the reaction will be. i have some sympathy for them. but i can tell you between now and the convention in cleveland, if you don't want people to talk about you as a potential nominee in cleveland, tamp it down. did that video really need to come out in april? john: at a time when everybody is talking about it. is paul ryan going to do this? you put out a video like this.

you would have to be a dope not to understand how the media is going to react to that, exactly as we are, exactly as everyone is. they are not votes -- dopes. they know what they are doing. mark: stop doing this stuff if you don't want us to talk about it. that video was too well done to be a coincidence. john: like advertising. it is what it is. mark: wait until after cleveland. we will hear more about them from them, i'm sure. when we get back, political highs and lows from the week that was after these words from our sponsors. ryan 2016. john: or bust. ♪

believe it or not, it has been just three days since the wisconsin primary. a testament to the brave new world that is the competitive new york presidential primary. so much has been compressed into 100 hours that we thought we would end the week with a little game of highs and lows, starting with the republicans in their hometown frontrunner. donald ray -- donald j. trump, billionaire, high of the week? we think it was the 10,000 person rally wednesday night, the day after the primary, when trump made an early demonstration he is indeed back on home turf. donald trump: first of all, it is great to be home. this is home. can you hear me all the way in the back? lying ted cruz could not draw 100 people. and i've goteople this guy looking at me talking about new york values with scorn on his face, with hatred of new

york. i am a straight shooter. i shoot straight, like new yorkers. we shoot straight. mark: back on home turf, pretty confident, big crowd. he has not done anything as visible since then. john: he needed to given the catastrophe or borderline catastrophe wisconsin was. he needed to come here and make an about it first statement that he was back -- emphatic first statement that he was back. mark: a big show of force. john: no doubt. that was very strong. mark: the other thing about it was i think we knew it but people need to see he is not just a city guide. events of state and around the state. people will see donald trump has a commanding position in the state. john: trump's low of the week was a post-wisconsin three-part turn in the conventional wisdom in the republican race.

the trump will not get a majority of delegates before the convention and if he does not on the first ballot, it will be difficult for him to get delegates on subsequent ballots. in the party is not as worried about a public relations nightmare as the -- if the front runner is not win the nomination as some people thought they might be. pieces ofe' conventional wisdom are close to universal. how low? mark: it is bad because we said wisconsin would give the anti-trump movement a shot in the arm. the shot in the arm will not apply much in new york and maybe not the states in the northeast. shot in the arm comes from the conventional wisdom. if the party feels they can get away with stopping trump and he come from a first ballot victory, that is a big sea change. john: perception feeds reality. if you believe you can do it, you try to do it and that makes things problematic for donald trump. mark: his life will be much

rougher if you cannot get a majority. john: let's turn to ted cruz. his high this week was a new reality captured perfectly by a "near times close quote story this morning. the headline, "g.o.p. donors eager to see donald trump learned to love ted cruz." if i am ted cruz's press secretary, that is like i have done my work for the month with that headline. moneylet's seen how much is up in the bank. amazing. not one significant endorsement since wisconsin. touts the sense, cruz fact he has gotten endorsements from five of the previous candidates that have dropped out. you do since the reality that with kasich not stepping up, trump has a chance here. john: two ways are noticeable.

the low murmur of everyone hates ted cruz is gone and the donor community. mark: let's talk about his low of the week, the fact that he is still using this as his explanation for the new york values, and he made in the run-up to iowa. ted cruz: everyone in and out of new york knows exactly what i meant by that. it is the liberal values of democratic politicians who have been hammering the people of new york for decades. they suffered under these liberal values. mark: it is as if the new york media was laying in wait for him to get here. john: we were. there is notswer, a reporter or a lot of new yorkers who look at that answer and say, "that is what you meant." john: if you are laboring under the label of lying ted cruz, that is so egregious it walks to the edge of actual outright lying. "all new yorkers know." no, we don't. we know what you meant.

mark: cruz will spend time in new york but is clearly focused on other states and try to get through the state whose values he seemed to impugn. the best news for john kasich this week. a couple new polls him show him in second place ahead of ted cruz, behind trump. one is a poll of new york republicans that has trump at 52%. 25%.h is in second at there is a poll of maryland republicans. trump is up only 10 points over kasich, 41% to 31%. this matters in terms of momentum but also potentially delegate accumulation which he sorely needs. john: if john kasich can get himself into a position where he can be a strong second to donald trump in a lot of these northeastern states, it helps john kasich. impedes -- it further trunks -- trump's ability to get

to 1237 before this is over. kasich is still playing the long game. this is key to it. mark: if you can go the next three weeks and finish second in every one, it gives him another talking point. first would be nice. maryland is close enough. it could be a good state. connecticut could set up to be a good state for him. if you can -- if he can get first in a couple of states, it would be a big deal for him. john: let's talk about the low. aside from the eating binge in the bronx, the ohio governor struggled to break through in the national dialogue or drive a single new cycle. a huge missed opportunity in a week where there was not a lot of other news on the republican side. this has been one of john kasich's biggest problems, not winning news cycles. this was really a prime moment for him to be able to do it. totally failed. started out talking about

the biography in ohio and washington record. he has a new ad out about electability. you are right. new york, there was an opening with the other two laying low for him to make a big splash and he has not done it. john: as was the case out of ohio, you recall we had a moment where he could have seized the narrative the day after he won the ohio primary. kasich has not been good at seizing the moment and this is another example. when we come back, the y's highs andrty lows that may or may not mention turn what -- turnstiles. ♪

john: we continue our high and low of the week returning to the contentious democratic race. after a tough loss in wisconsin, hillary clinton has done interviews. this morning, she also held a news conference in the bronx. yesterday, press availability in buffalo this afternoon. all demonstrating the front runner understands well when you campaign in media capital of the world, you don't want to hide from the media. that understanding, important. mark: brilliant. they put her out just enough and probably more than they had to to convey a sense she is available. she has been available more than usual. really smart because you cannot play hide and seek. you cannot run away. sanders is pretty available. this has been supersmart. hats off to her and her staff are doing this. john: funny thing. she can go around the country

all year in a presidential year and reporters complain if she is not available enough. but if she came here and was seen to be cloistered away, the howling would have been endless and brutal and withering. mark: i don't want to be totally symbolic and optics about this. i'm saying it is good. at this point in the campaign, it is difficult to ask substantive questions. process is driving what is going on. there have been some substantive questions. again, supersmart of them to do this. tech hillary clinton's low -- secretary clinton's low could be the turnstile fail from yesterday. that would be easy. we are bigger than that. the real missed opportunity this week for clinton was the fact for the past two days the coverage has been focused on the back and forth over the question of which of these two

candidates, if either, is qualified to be president. what was not being talked about much during this interval, bernie sanders less than stellar interview with the "near daily news" update. board would begin all the coverage for that seems to be a low for the clinton folks who miscalculated a little bit. john: you could argue it a couple different ways. i think the question of bringing qualifications into it was probably a mistake. she could have continued to say of course he is qualified, he has been a u.s. senator for a long time. he is an adequately prepared, he does not understand foreign policy well enough. she could have made more running with that ed board. mark: if the question were said, is bernie sanders a racist? she would not say i will let the voters decide.

she would say of course not. is he qualified? just say of course he is, but i am better. john: and he is inadequate in certain ways. mark: let's move to senator sanders leading up -- living up to his nickname as "the bern" with seth meyers doing his rendition. >> i think the fact the secretary came on board in opposition to the keystone pipeline after i was one of the leaders against that disastrous idea, when she came on board in opposition to the trans-pacific partnership, i was one of the leaders in opposition to that. she has come out for a higher minimum wage than i think she otherwise would have. i want $15. she wants $12. >> if she went to $15? would you go to 16? [laughter] proved heas funny and could play a late-night show. he was good. john: the thing about bernie

sanders is he has a good sense of humor. the truth is he has gotten to be better at showing it than he was a year ago. when he gets in these situations, he does shine. he shined on that show 100%. there were also some low points for bernie sanders. this is bernie sanders' lowest low after doubling down on his comments about hillary clinton's super pac, the iraq war, and her position on trade made her unqualified to be president. he backed away from that position on the "today show" this morning. bernie sanders: i respect hillary clinton. we were colleagues in the senate. on her worst day, she would be an infinitely better president than either of the republican candidates. >> she is qualified? bernie sanders: of course. john: sanders actually said the words hillary clinton is not qualified, and now he has backed away from that entirely.

explain why that is such a bad move. mark: two hours later, he said again she is not qualified. i think it is too much back and forth. he had a good argument if he framed it right and have the entire race focused on the three big issues he was the contest to focus on. he gave it all up. john: i don't disagree with anything you said. mark: next, bernie sanders' campaign manager jeff weaver is here. we will talk to him about all of this and more when we come back. ♪

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jeff weaver, campaign manager for bernie sanders campaign. thanks for being here. we have a lot of things to talk to you about. it's been an eventful week. let's start with the news of the day. we had the discussion earlier in the show. why does it make sense in a must win primary context for bernie sanders to get on a plane and go to italy a couple days before the new york primary? >> bernie sanders obviously has great affinity for the pope and talks about it quite often but the invitation came from the vatican and he wanted to accept immediately and that's what he did. the moral economy has been a center of his life and we have a pope focused on it. i think it was a can't miss opportunity. >> just on the politics of it, a lot of people admire the pope and i understand but this is a state you must win. >> we can talk about that in a minute.

>> you don't dispute this is a very important state. >> no, very important state. >> so he is going to be out of this market in a hotly contested primary for a pretty long time. it seems in terms of time allocation this might not be something you would necessarily want to do. >> some things are more important than politics, and this is one of them. >> is this trip in any way perfectly executed to help you win the new york primary? >> look, i don't think that's it at all. as i said bernie sanders has a lot of affinity for the pope particularly they've worked together on this issue. i think when the invitation came through he was deeply honored and accepted. >> is there any chance the trip will be canceled? >> not as far as we're concerned. >> zero percent. >> i predicted earlier in the program it would. >> by who? >> i predicted it. i don't think you're going to. >> me personally or anybody? >> i don't think senator sanders will go. i think you all will tell him on, you know, like wednesday afternoon, you know what? this thing is close enough that if you stay you could win the primary. that's my prediction.

i don't mean to play with history in the future. >> well you do actually. but, no. i think -- >> you're going. >> yes, absolutely. >> he's not meeting with the pope, right? no indication -- >> there is no indication he'll be meeting with the pope. >> we'll move on from this topic but i want to ask one more question. >> of course. >> he could lose new york by one point which symbolically would not be good. the pope will still be the pope after the new york primary. >> god willing. >> i don't think anyone is going to change their view of the importance he places on these issues. just to clarify if he is not going to meet with the pope is he going because he is honored? is he going because this is a can't miss conference? is he going because he thinks it would be rude to say no? why does he have to go now? >> well, the invitation is for now. he'll never be invited again? he's going to be president of the united states? >> when you get invited by the vatican i think you go. >> no matter what else you have going on. even though it's not an invitation to meet with the pope. >> we're going to make the trip as efficiently as possible.

and we'll be back. >> all right. let's move on. >> i want to note for the record though a campaign manager of a presidential candidate who comes on the air and says some things are more important than politics, it just raises a lot of -- a certain number of suspicions. >> there are the cynical among us, yes. >> why did bernie sanders, your candidate today within the space of a couple hours say, secretary clinton is, of course she is qualified to be president and she's not qualified to be president. >> i think there's been a lot of what does qualified mean, right? so is she resume qualified? obviously. who doesn't think she is not resume qualified? everybody would agree to that. >> right. >> the question is has she exhibited judgment on a number of issues -- the iraq war, the way she funds her campaign with big dollar money, trade deals, are there judgment issues which sort of disqualify her, which is different than being unqualified. right? >> maybe he should have said disqualified. >> i think that more accurately characterizes what he was trying to say. >> was this back and forth?

we said on friday reflecting, was this back and forth good for your campaign? >> well, look. i think what was important is after we came out of wisconsin with a big win, right, seven of the last eight contests, i was on cnn on the night of the victory in wisconsin and there was a report the clinton campaign has a new strategy against sanders in new york. disqualify him, defeat him, reunite the party later. well, clearly we were going to come into new york. they were going to sharpen their elbows. it would be rough and tumble from new york and bernie sanders from small vermont was going to be beaten by the head and shoulders and rolled by the hillary organization. that's not going to happen. >> the end of the story is here on friday there is a lot of back and forth and as a political matter you won the week on this fight over the question of -- >> yes, the tone from the clinton campaign is ratcheted now way down. >> let me just take issue with this one thing. you said how you thought on a number oaf educations you've been saying for months now you guys set the pace on policy in

this campaign and that the clinton campaign has sort of called the tune on tone. so yesterday when you said on television that hillary clinton had made a bunch of deals with the devil -- >> i didn't say she made a deal with the devil. the devil always wants his due. >> so what has the clinton campaign said in the last 72 hours that approaches that in terms of negativity of tone? >> well, the entire, how about the disqualify, defeat, and reunite the party later? obviously indicating they're going to go so bad in their view they'll have to pick up the pieces later. >> no one in the clinton campaign went on television and said that. you went on television with your face on tv and said that. i'm not disputing the reporting but it is a different thing for someone in the campaign to say something to a reporter. you were on television yesterday and started talking about deals with the devil. as a tonal thing it seems pretty harsh. >> well, look. there was harshness being thrown at us. the message is if you want to play on that level, we're not

just a bunch of guys from vermont. right? we can play on that level. >> we get you guys are tough and everything but what did they say that was tonally anywhere -- the question i asked at the beginning -- what did they say on the record in front of a camera anywhere close to the tonal negativity of what you said in seems like you set the pace yesterday in terms of tonal negativity. >> no. it started with them and we responded forcefully and their tone is now ratcheted way down. >> you concede when the clinton campaign puts out these memos talking about delegate math you can see things are tough for you guys? >> i don't know what tough means. she was way over 300 delegate lead a short time ago. now she is about 215. it's going down. wyoming is saturday, tomorrow. hopefully we will win there. it's going to go down. we're winning additional delegates in nevada in the caucuses. we'll win additional delegates in other caucuses where we've won. >> but it's an uphill climb. >> of course. it's been an uphill climb since the first day.

>> go state by state or just talk through between now and june, california votes, talk about how you're going to overtake her. just explain that to people who, your supporters who say they want hope as they keep reading over and over and hear the press say mathematically there is a certainty hillary clinton is going to win. talk through the calendar and how you catch up. >> we have to win in a majority of states going forward. no doubt about that. we have to have good margins in a number of them. we don't have to win everywhere. we don't have to win every state or win every state big. >> where are states you're going to win big and make up the gap? where does the harvest come from? >> a state like oregon i think we'll win big. a field poll out in california, we haven't done any advertising or organizing in california. only down six points. the polls out of pennsylvania look very, very good. a lot of states coming forward we'll do very well in. >> explain how you overtake her delegate lead. >> i think we have to do well in new york. i don't know if that's a win or a close win. in some ways i think there is more pressure on her in this contest than on us.

we had 86% in vermont. right? that was in bernie's state. i don't think hillary clinton has 86% here and i don't think she has to but she has to do well. if she wins with 58% in new york i think it will expose her candidacy. >> if she wins with 51% basically you get equal delegates so you haven't made up any ground if that happens. >> right. >> one state you cited where you'll win a lot, oregon -- >> i think we'll do very well in pennsylvania. >> you'll win more delegates in pennsylvania. >> absolutely. i don't have any doubt. i think we'll do well in the two southern new england states which don't have big delegate halls but do have delegates. i think we'll win well in the rest of the western states. i think we'll probably gain probably 15 or 20 net delegates out of the caucus process over time like we did in nevada. >> but back to the beginning that doesn't catch you up. >> it does. >> it really doesn't. >> well i have a chart. >> oh, bring that chart. with hart shows you

realistic projections of passing her. on the night of the california primary. >> right. but look. california and new jersey and a couple other state is not just california. but let's be clear. no one is going to the convention with a sufficient number of pledge delegates to lock this thing up. >> let's talk about that right now. i will say back eight years ago when the obama campaign, they put down their projections on a piece of paper and showed everybody how they were going to be able to, how hillary clinton would never be able to catch up. i know you don't have it with you right now but if you have such a piece of paper there is a precedent for actually publishing -- again, there is precedent. >> i think they published it by accident. >> nevertheless -- >> showed it to a reporter by accident. >> you could mail to me by accident. then we can hold you accountable to this claim. let me ask you this question. you've now said there is going to be a contested convention on the democratic side. >> i just don't think anybody is going to arrive with a majority of pledged delegates. >> so that's a battle for super delegates, right? >> it is a fight for super ballots, right.

>> so what is the argument? we had an interview yesterday with the mayor of kansas city who is hillary clinton's super delegate and said i'm with her no matter what. i think she'll be the best president. nothing will change my mind even if bernie sanders has the lead in pledged delegates which you don't think will happen. what is the argument bernie sanders makes to super delegates if they're with hillary clinton forever? >> a lot have been with her since before there was even a race frankly. sort of with her by default. >> very loyal. what causes them to abandon her? >> well, i think we'll see a continuation of bernie sanders' success electorally in the democratic primary and caucus system which has going to further expose the fact the secretary has severe weaknesses in her candidacy. number two we'll see a continuation of the months long polling data which shows that against every republican he does better than she does. in fact, many of the republicans she loses to. right? so she loses to john kasich often. she loses to ted cruz often. not only in national polls but state polls in battleground

state polls. bernie sanders almost always beats them all. so he is a much stronger candidate in the fall. he'll create the kind of enthusiasm and excitement necessary to bring out a large turnout in november. he is wildly popular with independent voters. about 25% of americans are democrats. you can't win a national election by just bringing out democrats. hillary clinton is wildly popular with self-identified democrats. no doubt about that. her fambls are very high. when you go to independents her favorables rightly or wrongly fall off a cliff. right? if you can't bring independents into the fold, you're not going to elect a president or people down ballot. bernie sanders has shown you can do that in national head-to-head polls against republicans. he does better with independents. certainly in the democratic primary process he gets often 70% or more of independents who are democratally aligned. he is just a much stronger candidate who can deliver the vote in november not only for himself but for everybody down the ticket. >> i know that senator sanders is not interested in talking

about the e-mail server but as campaign manager you have to worry about every possible variable. is the process or the progress of the justice department of investigation something that could change the contours of this race? >> well, i mean, obviously. you know, i don't think -- that's not what we're relying on. we'll run this election as if that's not happening and then we'll win on the -- >> but it's possible from your point of view because you follow it by reading the newspaper. >> i do read the newspaper, yes. >> is it possible in your mind that something happened in that investigation that could change the view of the super delegates and the voters? >> yes. anything is possible. >> including that. >> yes, of course. >> when this ends, whenever this ends, and what will you tell your son you did in this campaign? >> what will i tell him that i did? >> yeah. >> well, what i would tell him is i gave -- i did my small part to present to the american people the candidate with the most honest candidate who's been out there for a long time. the greatest, boldest vision for america. i think bernie sanders has really transformed america.

>> win or lose? >> well, i think in many ways he's already won. but, you know, we're running to win the presidency but, yes. i mean he's obviously transformed the party. young people bring young people to the process. his impact will go on for decades. >> you like that answer? >> yeah. okay. very quick. do you consider, i mean, you made an argument about electability before. you're not saying hillary clinton is unelectable in the general election >> i am not. i would say this. she has some -- there are some severe questions about her electability particularly her problem with independent voters that she can't overcome that. the problem is that after the convention you have a very short window between then and the general election and if you have to convince independent voters that you're honest before you can start presenting your substantive message it really puts you in a very bad situation. >> all right. jeff weaver, that was a lengthy interview but delightful. >> did you enjoy it? >> interesting. i'm looking forward to seeing the delegate chart that will convince all of us that he is clearly on a path to getting the majority of pledged

delegates. thank you. we'll be right back with all of the answers to all of your questions about all of the super delegates right after this.

we just talked to bernie sanders' campaign manager about what the campaign has to do to turn the tide in the democratic nomination fight. what is a super delegate? do they have super powers? are they used for good or for evil? huh. and the latest installment of our by the number series. we sought to answer those very questions. >> bernie sanders' big win in wisconsin tuesday night gives him 47 pledged delegates.

hillary clinton won 36. that means sanders has a total of 1,027 to clinton's 1,279. this math does not include super delegates. who are the super delegates, you ask? folks not elected by primary voters but automatically given a voice in the presidential nomination process because of their position in the party. examples include hawaii representative gabbert, new york senator chuck schumer, and virginia governor terry mcauliffe. when you include super delegates in the count clinton's lead jumps. sanders' only hope to seize the nomination hinges on whether or not he can convince super delegates to switch sides. the super delegates for sanders to convert are those through states that he has won like the new hampshire governor maggie hasan but even then his chances are slim. he still needs about 60% of the remaining delegates. that would take big wins in states he's expected to do well in like connecticut, delaware, and rhode island. and surprise upsets in four remaining delegate-rich states

-- new york, new jersey, california, and pennsylvania. so sanders' path to the nomination is very, very tough, but to borrow a word, not un-possible. >> ah, the junior wigham. we just talked to weaver about the super delegates and flipping them. most of them will be loyal to the clintons. and don't think despite what the poll shows that senator sanders is as electable despite the polls suggesting otherwise. >> here's the thing. i've always thought the importance of super delegates is over rated in this sense. in the democratic party especially at a populace moment the super delegates will i think have a hard time defying the will of the electorate. and what no one is arguing right now is that bernie sanders except for jeff weaver is going to over take hillary clinton, going to get somehow way ahead of her in pledged delegates and that will get the super delegates who might in other circumstances, i think a lot of them would leave the

clintons if he's way ahead but if he's not they're not going to leave the clintons. >> the thing is whether to defy the voters of your own state caucus primary vs. the national popular vote, who won more states or whatever. it is still going to be tough to flip them but that's why i brought up the e-mail investigation. we'll be right back with baseball has been very, very good to this program and donald trump after this. ♪

>> baseball, baseball, baseball. the return of the greatest game means three things for us. a reason to eat cracker jacks in the office, outdoor meetings

with sources, and, of course, the great will leach. we wanted will to do a baseball segment so badly believe it or not it turns out there was a perfect angle. donald trump. here's will. >> baseball is back. the crack of the bat, the smell of freshly cut grass, grown men running around in their pajamas spitting everywhere in sight. and like everything else in american culture right now baseball is not immune from the donald. >> the thing i liked the best as baseball. >> stars are endorsing him. >> thank you, paul. >> beloved yankee great paul o'neill showed up at a trump election night rally, the one with the steaks, and red sox idiot johnny damon declared, if trump needs me anywhere, i'll be there. >> but it is a different story in the owners' box. there is no more perfect example of an establishment republican than a baseball

owner. st. louis cardinals, considered the unofficial leader of baseball fraternity is close friends with george w. bush and gave heavily to fame trump casualty and punching bag jeb bush. now that trump is close to clinching a nomination many other owners' families have stepped into the batter's box to take a swing. the wife of the arizona diamondbacks owner said she and her husband were actively willing to lose fans in order to keep trump from the oval office. even more actively than the rickets family who own the chicago cubs, the hottest team in baseball this year. the family has given millions to the antitrump pac our principles inspiring this angry speech from trump. i hear they're spending money against me. they better be careful. they have a lot to hide. >> if we had something to hide you guys would have found it by now i'm sure. >> cubs owner tom rickets not shaking in his boots said it is a little surreal when donald trump threatens your mom. it has not actually stopped

marlene rickets, tom's mom, who is responsible for this ad. >> trump scams students. he can scam america, too. >> maybe trump will be shut out of baseball. at least he always has football. >> football has become soft. the referees want to all throw flags so their wife sees them at home. oh, this is my husband. >> oh, donald. there's always high life. >> all right. our thanks as always. we'll be right back with the matsa man, ted cruz, after this. ♪

>> presidential campaigning in new york means serious food pandering. bagels, food, pizza, how about matzah? oh, yeah. matzah. ted cruz is at a matzah bakery in brooklyn with some children saying, oi ll of us

vey. enjoy. ♪ pick up your matzoh! >> i'd love to make it. >> all right. yes! ♪ make, make, make a hole are you excited senator cruz is here? >> yes! >> hold on. there you go. superb. >> on monday mrs. jane sanders joins us right here in the studio to talk about the new york primary.

mark: let's begin with a check of your first word news. a suspect in the november 13 paris attacks has been arrested in belgium. muhammad abrini is believed to

be the man in the hat who escaped the double bombing at the airport. if confirmed, it would mean he played a key role in both attacks carried out by an islamic state cell in paris and brussels. officials are putting then extradition of another suspect on hold. 4e fled to belgium after the paris attacks. officials blame the delay on an ongoing investigation into a dead pli police raid into a brussels neighborhood the day before his arrest. bernie sanders has closed the gap with hillary clinton ahead of new york's primary to 18 points in likely voters. this after trailing her by 30 points in march. mrs. clinton is at 56%, senator sanders at 38%. for republicans, donald trump leads ted cruz, 56% to 22%. john kasich has 17%. in washington, senior lawmakers on the senate intelligence