campbell:: i'm campbell brown. all due respect to bernie sanders, we've got your best friend on the show. aboutll: we are talking jane. mark: later, we will have the latest bloomberg policies ball with good data on how donald trump is doing among married

women voters, but first, let's understand why trump is deriding the complex rules by rich republicans -- by which republicans and democrats like their delegates. after a ted cruz friendly colorado state convention on saturday, trump is trying to reverse the new narrative that ted cruz crusaders are outmaneuvering even in places where trump one popular vote primaries. he follows the democratic caucuses where bernie sanders crushed hillary clinton in the popular vote and walked away with the same number of delegates as his rival. here is donald trump making the case for himself and sanders at a rally in rochester, new york last night. : i watched bernie and he wins and winds and then i see he's got no chance. they say he's got no chance. why doesn't he have a chance? because the system is corrupt and it is worse on the republican side. i'm up millions of votes on ted

cruz -- i don't mean to votes, i'm up millions and millions of votes. we are supposed to be a democracy. we are supposed to be you vote and the vote means something. what they are doing and whether it is me or whether it is bernie sanders and i look at it and see always victories i have an all these victories he's got and you look at the establishment -- and i want to tell you, it is a corrupt deal going on in this country. today, the chairman of the republican national committee defended the process. andng that the rules conventions are totally fair. is donald trump correct? that the delegate selection process is unfair? campbell: no, the rules are the rules. ownfact that trump's children are not able to vote in the primary in new york demonstrates how unprepared they are and how little they know

about the rules. get your ownn family registered in time? it is absurd. that's the way the process is designed to work. the rules may be crazy, but they are not arbitrary. they were decided on by the party or by the voters and that's part of the campaign process, earning the rules -- learning the rules and playing by the rules. end thatgree in the the rules are the rules. people would be shocked if they knew there's not a great correlation between the voters voting, the popular vote, and who gets the delegate? campbell: al gore won the popular vote but did not get the presidency. mark: and people were critical of the electoral process and it was the question of whether people went to the polls intending to vote for al gore. i think trump is onto something with a restorable -- with a talkingal point, as a

point, to say bernie sanders and i are the outsiders and insiders are fixing the game. sure,exaggerating, to be but he is helping to rally his supporters to come out in the polls in states yet to vote. campbell: i think the rules are designed this way to build consensus around the nominee. about increasing the popular vote, they are about getting the establishment people and engaged party activists onboard with one person. but the news organizations should stop reporting the popular vote because that's not the point. passover was a sunday, why was the sunday different from all other sundays? donaldson -- donald trump did not do a single sunday show for the first time all year. this is a sunday where trump has not owned in or taped an

interview. press so they the could watch him toward the 9/11 memorial museum, but afterward, he did not take a single question. he did a phone interview into fox news this morning, a trump classic, but is doing less media good for his chances? i never want to argue in favor of a candidate talking to the press less, but i think trump is smart to play with the supply and demand. when he does a lot, reporters tend to playoff of each other. if he does more local press, which he is doing below the radar, he does local tv without telling the national press, i think he's in a better vision to control the message better than he has been. campbell: i think just because he's doing less media doesn't mean he's getting less media. they are still taping his press conferences live and he has

basically taken over the media in this campaign. they have given up editorial control. take my rallies if you want to and they take his rallies. it has been a testament to trump's brilliance how he has manipulated the media into giving up total editorial control. maybe he's doing less, but it doesn't mean he's getting less. mark: he does one sunday show and everyone covers it. he doesn't need to do more. campbell: ted cruz has exhibited a quality that might take a middle manager at staples. he is scoring delegates in dates but the road ahead is clogged with voters who don't like him so much. the next x primary contest in the northeast and mid-atlantic, including new york where a new poll shows him in third place with 18% of the vote.

does not return to a more friendly stretch of the primary calendar on until indiana on may 3. he is campaigning today. is he going to pay a price if he finishes third? will in twok you ways. he needs to get close enough to trump so he is within hailing distance to win on a third a la. geti think his argument to kasich out of the race if he cannot finish second. we've got a month where there's only northeastern states. if heetter off for him could surge here and prove he can compete in these northeastern states which means showing he can appeal to more moderate voters, which he needs to do. mark: does any of this even matter if it just about getting to an open convention? you are not going to win outright, so he is just trying to keep from from getting to

that magic number. he's got to mark: have enough delegates in the general election argument that he can be an alternative. if ted cruz hasn't won by the secondly, he cannot win because too many delegates are bound to vote for trump. if he can't win, i don't know that he can win on the fourth ballot. there are a lot of delegates at stake and he cannot go around arguing that john kasich is irrelevant if he cannot eat him in all of these contests even if it is in the northeast. campbell: i think the trump voters are the trump voters and trump is not necessarily convincing new people, so for ted cruz, it is about how do you expand turnout? you look at a state like maryland where he comes in third but you've got a governor there

who hates trump and who has said he will not endorse but maybe you can get him to engage more and ramp up turnout or get that percentage. mark: he has switched from an economics and jobs argument -- this is a testing ground for him when he goes to california and other western states. a writ guessing game -- who will be the republican presidential nominee and how will that person be selected? over the past two days, i've gone on twitter and then one of those unscientific holes with four options. one, trump will win the nomination for the convention. two, he will win at the convention. number three, ted cruz will win the nomination. matchesy on the pole exactly what my reporting finds -- there is a total disparity on what people think is going to happen with trump winning at the

convention being the scenario that is the least addicted. the others are basically tied. this is not scientific but of those four choices, which do you think at this point is the most likely outcome? campbell: i think it is more scientific and a lot of polls we have seen. and if they follow me on twitter, they are people of refine taste. campbell: i think for trump, he has to win on the first ballot. don't you think most people have conceded as much? certainly see that things become much dicier. that is notthink the most likely. i think it becomes about ted cruz and his organizing. using ted cruz at the convention is most likely? campbell: i think it is. does wellink of trump

in northeast and wins indiana, he can get there before the convention. day of then the california or new jersey primaries, but there is this interval between the primaries and convention and if he is within 100, he can shimmy his way to a majority. campbell: and the people who are trying to stop them will concede -- we are talking about a 20 or 30 delegate difference here. so coming up, what is the difference between classified and classified? aboutent obama talks hillary clinton's home e-mail server and we talk with bernie jane.s'wife, ♪

campbell: welcome back. we are going to be talking to jane sanders, but first, the sender's campaign has shifted its message about the hillary clinton campaign. last week, sanders was calling her unqualified to be president because her super pac takes money from wall street and because of her past positions on wall street and trade. this week, he's using a different word. see if you can spot it. mr. sanders: she may have the experience but in terms of the judgment, something is clearly lacking. maybe her judgment is not as high is at -- high as it should be. it is a question of judgment. i have my doubts about what kind of president she would make. campbell: does sanders step over the line of personal attacks? mark: i don't think so. this is the essence of what you

want in a president. that is someone who should be president. the kind of argument i think candidates should make. campbell: some of the clinton people are smarting over the not qualified comments because they think it could be used over and over in the general election. but to be complaining about this, welcome to politics. is it any harder than what barack obama said about hillary iraqon or in 2008 over her vote? any harsher than she was on him? this is a campaign. grow up. mark: bernie sanders would have been making -- would have done better to make these arguments out of the gate. his strongest case is on things like trade. what kind of judgment do you want?

city,er the state and the she's got her own comparison. it feels like helicopter parenting. primaries are supposed to be the camp and make you a better candidate. bernie sanders made several stops rong gotham city, call mating with a big rally in front of the roller coaster at coney island yesterday. polls show him lagging behind clinton by double digits and is trailing in a new poll we mentioned earlier by 55% to 41% campaign is saying new york is not a must win state. a lot of pundits said it would. is the sanders campaign right that he doesn't need new york to be the nominee? i think he has to win

new york if he wants the nomination. as probably know the math well as anyone. he needs a big wildcard moment of some kind to change the dynamic. is unexpected is is hillary clinton going to make another mistake or big gaffe? with the clintons, you don't know. i don't see him getting out. i think it is going to be a long and hard slog. by a lot orwins loses by a lot or wins by little or loses by a little, it doesn't affect his chance to be nominee. tore are too many delegates say he doesn't need to win here. chances of being the nominee don't go down appreciably if he doesn't win here, but he needs to win here and pick up delegates and get -- and he

needs the momentum and the geewhiz factor of saying i beat her in new york. now, for those darn e-mails. president obama sat down with chris wallace on fox news on sunday where he was asked about the pesky fbi investigation into hillary clinton's home server. first, obama said he couldn't speak about it and swore not to interfere and then he spoke about the pending investigation anyway and once again exonerated his party's likeliest presidential nominee. clintont obama: hillary was an outstanding sectarian state and would never intentionally put america in any kind of jeopardy. there's classified and then there is classified. their stuff that is top-secret top-secret and stuff you might not want on the transom going out over the wire but is stuff you could get in open source.

chris: you were prepared to say she hasn't jeopardized -- president obama: i continue to believe she is not jeopardize america's national security. and i've also said and she has acknowledged that there is a carelessness in terms of managing e-mails that she has owned and she recognizes. campbell: today during the white josh ernst reefing, defended his his boss and what he knows about the investigation. >> the president has neither sought nor received a confidential briefing about the ongoing investigation. the president's knowledge is based entirely on public reporting. is one of the benefits of the approach secretary clinton and her team have taken to dealing with this matter. campbell: so why is the president talking about his e-mail investigation? mark: beats me.

if he's only learning about this from public investigation or not , then to try to exonerate her who is overseeing the justice department, i don't know if he is trying to help her towhat but it makes no sense be talking about this investigation. just say it is an ongoing investigation and i have confidence in the justice department. to talk about the specifics of the case, i don't get it. campbell: i agree. i was stunned when i heard him say it. any president would be expected to say it is an ongoing investigation. then to say you are not going to influence what is going on at the justice department and be very overt about your view on this -- and if he doesn't have any inside information, he can't possibly exonerate her. campbell: it is a testament to

how much she is struggling that he would feel the need to step in and protect his legacy. back, janewe come sanders will tell us about her husband latest plan to win. ♪

mark: our guest tonight is jane sanders, wife of bernie sanders who dreams of being the next first lady. we're going to talk more about the concrete jungle where dreams are made of.

how is new york going so far? this is a rough and tough state. jane: it is our state. both of us born and bred here and it has been really good to be home, going down to coney island yesterday. 18,500 people in the audience and it has been fantastic. your husband has said you are from vermont -- is it intimidating to run with all the spotlight and glare? not intimidated by new york. we love it. clinton represents new york but it feels like home to me. campbell: your husband has made the complaint that the process has been unfair given the way

delegate rules are designed. it isn't so much that it is unfair, but it seems really that 30% of the votes you need are superdelegates. there are people who are not the voters and that doesn't seem quite right. i know that is what the republicans wish they had, but we just don't agree with that. one person, one vote. mark: what would you say to your by 12hat he wins wyoming points and make up the same number of delegates. has its ownstate rules. i don't like how they figure it out but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. those were the rules set before we entered. so unlike donald trump, you would not say these rules are correct? it is interesting to see that it is all different state

by state. i would like to see more of a federal election, that you win a state and every state has the same requirement. for instance, independence cannot vote in new york and we are building a democratic party, if we are keeping them out last october, they did not decide to register as democrats. that does not seem smart. you mentioned the superdelegates and the role that they play. what is your message to them? jane: i think the key is to look at who is the best candidate for the general election. democratic party nominee is going to win the base of the democrats. who wins the independence and sways some of the republicans? independence everywhere. in the last senatorial election, he got 25% of republicans

because they say we know you and trust you. we might not agree with everything you are saying but we can count on you to do what you say. i think he's a much utter candidate, but if you look at the polls, he's doing much better against all the republicans. mark: we're going to come back ofh more with jane sanders vermont and new york after this. ♪

campbell: we are back with one of bernie sanders'closest

advisers and also with his primary news source like when she broke the news that he had won the wyoming caucuses. jane sanders, thank you for being here. we were talking about that in wyoming and the differences on the delegate rules, but also about the superdelegates. talk to us about your roles in all of this and how you define it. you are involved in the ad making. how do you see your role in the campaign? jane: there are about half a dozen of us that work with ernie on just about everything, but it started with buying furniture for the office. whatever needed to be done was done and now i travel with him a lot, which has been really nice. really just talking about strategy and scheduling and television advertising. itk: there is one rolled

have uniquely -- you are the family cpa. here is a candidate is a stressed me when i release my taxes, there will be no problem but won't say when he will release them or how much is in them. i was expecting when they were due we would be releasing them. mark: how about the prior years? jane: sure. they are on file but we haven't been home for months. asked, thego, people clinton campaign asked and we said of course we will release them. mark: and in full, the whole thing? jane: no problem. mark: if donald trump said release them -- i will release of eventually, would you say that's no problem? jane: i would say when they are due, i expect them to come out.

but i would tell you that every other year, i ask for an extension but this year, we knew i couldn't do that. so you will release how many years? -- mark: you will release how many years? do you want?y every year, we have released them. did when he ran for election. i will release this years as soon as they are due and can i have time to go home? but you are saying there's nothing in them? jane: nothing. we are pretty boring. you have -- your senateve income, what else is in them? jane: i sold my mom's condo at the beginning of the year. campbell: this was more on the republican side a kerfuffle

about the wives that came out with the intention that was -- the attention being paid to wives and spouses. do you think that's their? are spouses fair game? jane: i don't think families are fair game. spouses put themselves out there in a supporting role. as trump didpeople for heidi cruise for her looks, that is ridiculous. first of all, she's a nice-looking woman. but beyond that, it's not nice to take personal attacks against anybody, let alone the spouses. i think it is fine to ask questions of them. are you leaving for italy with your husband on thursday night? jane: i am.

are leaving right after the debate, leaving first thing saturday morning and we will have event on saturday. we have been in new york all this time and we are going to continue. mark: does anyone in the campaign think it is a bad use of time? and what will you do there? bernie will be speaking at the invitation of the vatican to talk about a moral economy. an invitation that you don't want to reject. that's quite an honor and as you know, he feels airy strongly and pope francis has been an extraordinary leader and the issues he talks about are similar to the ones bernie talks about. mark: you go, i will give them to you.

whenclinton made remarks he was heckled by lack lives matter. the press jumped on one thing -- do you think for other candidates and spouses that the present political opponents cherry pick and sees on one word to often rather than looking at the totality of what is said? is that a fair criticism of the political process? jane: i would definitely say that. it's crazy. the story is the gas and the mistake. it's not with the intent was. i think bill clinton probably regrets how he handled that question or, but he was speaking about other things as well. say that you are right but your campaign has occasionally done that to your political opponents.

they will take one thing secretary clinton says and iaggerate its impact? jane: don't know that that's true. i know it is politics today. i always try to say what did she mean and what is the context? with the overall image hillary clinton is trying , it's always in an overall context. campbell: you might not want to go here and it may be premature, but there are a lot of people in the underworld he says if he doesn't win in new york, it's over for sanders and he should not go on. how do you think about this over the long-term? that's the question that has been asked in iowa, new

hampshire, ohio and everywhere. everyone keeps thinking if he he't make it -- when started, no one took him seriously. now they are starting to and he has 18 out of the nine last contests. needs to do well in new york and i think if he does well in new york, which is his opponent state that she represented, that says a lot. i think what we are looking at is momentum. we are in an enviable position. the more people hear about ernie, the more they know about him, the more they like him. it is unfortunate a did not know more about him before. untiln't decide to run april. mark: superdelegates from massachusetts, should they feel

free to support bernie sanders and not go along with the voters in their state? jane: my feeling is with 30% of the votes you need, they are superdelegates and they've and elected to represent their state . i think those representing their state would look to when you have a very large margin, two thirds or more, i would think that would be a given. that is how i would comport myself if elected. have tosuperdelegates use their judgment and that's why they are superdelegates. i -- theyhey think would say i think bernie sanders ,s better than hillary clinton using they should not go with the overwhelming majority of their voters? jane: i think they should go with the majority of their voters. the big majority,

we have tied -- i think they will do what they want to do and i'm not here to direct them. to have people when bernie went 70% or 80% of the vote that the superdelegates follow. we did not get to talk but we willton" have to have you back again. good luck on the trail. up next, a republican mega strategist joins us after this. ♪

mark: joining us now, the former chairman of the republican hardy in florida and senior adviser to get off campaign and a man we like to talk to. he's currently not supporting any of the three remaining candidates. mr. chairman, welcome. appraise the state of your presidential nomination fight right now. where does it stand? guest: i will be very surprised if donald trump doesn't fall short by 100 or maybe 80 delegates. 's shot is getting within 200. they will be within 200 or 300 delegates either because they are released by the folks they are there to represent, and they could tilt this thing before you walk into the convention hall. candidates toose do that.

it's up to getting everybody's individual delegates. they could goolf, to a professional who might be supporting a particular candidate. this thing gets very personal and very specific. campbell: is that really happening with the delegates? that sort of dealmaking and lobbying at that granular level? al: i believe you will see that as inevitable for cap i think two thirds of campaigns are concentrating on adding delegates and their is a crew there to do the intel work and find out how strongly they feel about the process and whether they are there because of the candidates or because their friends selected them. i think 30% or 40 of those -- already percent or 40% of those delegates will not either because they are delegates. theirre there because

elected officials or party regulars and they will do what they need to do and respect the rules but at the end of the day, they will vote with their heart. everyone needs to know where they are going to be. mark: i know it's hard to generalize but do you think delegates care about electability? that they are going to look at the possible nominees and say i need to know if this person is going to be able to win the election. you are with a particular candidate, your heart says that candidate is going to win and we will figure out the path to get there. official, not elected you will be much more pragmatic and you will be looking at the polls and they should be worried. the polls right now are not the very kind to our two likely nominees. howdy people are there because of their heart and how

may people are there because they are thinking perhaps -- could throw all of the old stuff out the window this election cycle. they are not ones who have a long track record of support. this is not reagan or bush or even bob dole. sincel be the first time eisenhower other than george bush junior where you are going to elect someone who hasn't been in the process before. just about every republican nominee has run once before. , there arepeople people wondering job trump, is he really like this -- donald trump, is he like this or does ted cruz really have a soft in his heart? why hasn't the

establishment crowd rallied around john kasich? if they are still trying to figure them out, why hasn't john kasich in the alternative? al: love is a two way street. you would think donald trump would be rounding up the troops, putting out some strong messages about wanting to unite the party, but what does he say? i do one jeb bush pots support. he is shunning the potential support of others to bring the party together. he believes that this point in time, the only recourse he has take control of the party and take control of the nomination. i don't believe donald trump thinks he can put the toothpaste back in the tube after the campaign he has run. mark: thank you very much. new bloomberg

politics online poll about what married women think regarding donald trump, hillary clinton, and the other candidates. are watching us and washington, d.c., you can listen to us on 99.1 fm. we will be right back. ♪

mark: hot off the electronic press, our new bloomberg poll, we call it a purple slice survey , selecting one important demographic, married women. mitt romney won that important group of voters, but this year our poll shows republican married women favor donald trump 37-32 percent.

in the general election, trump, crew than hillary clinton all have extremely high unfavorable numbers. joining us to explain the poll further is the purple strategy ceo and democratic thought influence or. let's talk that the methodology of how you are doing these polls. steve: they are online surveys and al hunt had the brilliant idea and it really was very smart, to look at some of these slices of the electorate that will make a difference to determine the outcome and look at how they are performing this year as opposed to four years ago and you have already given the headline for top among married women who met romney carried four years ago, hillary clinton has a 12 point lead over donald trump which recommends a nine teen point -- which represents a 19 point swing.

ae what happens when you put 19 point swing in there. it's not a pretty picture for republicans if this life holds the way it is. campbell: was that the most surprising thing for you? these candidates are particularly popular on their own, but in comparison to another candidate, hillary clinton looks a lot more popular and a lot more appealing to a group that one format romney by seven points four years ago. clintone in the campaign tonight looking at these numbers, i would be happy for top mark: is there anything that if you are in the trump campaign you would think is good news? trump leads in areas where you would expect. if you ask who is going to do a better job changing washington, donald trump has a lead among these married women over hillary clinton.

if you ask who is going to bring new ideas to washington, donald trump has lead. if you are going to ask who is better at creating jobs, donald trump plus business there to help there. on the other hand, if you ask this is ready on day one to be clinton winsllary that. if you ask who has the temperament, which is something i think you will see discussed and voters focused on, hillary clinton has the lead there. if you ask who will be a better role model for our children, donald trump does not win that. hillary clinton does. all of those things are good news for the clinton campaign. campbell: tell us about what people said about trump's position on abortion. steve: people don't really understand what his position is. women, 50%ed

reported his position on abortion is not the same as 19% correctlyther identified his position and 31% were not sure. notwithstanding all the attention donald trump's four or five abortion answers got, most voters think he's not standing where they are, which is a little bit of a problem. they are not sure where he stands except for a minority of women who do understand where he is. it is safe to say that you can slice and dice the electorate in a number of way to figure out how they might win a majority of the vote, but if they don't do better than this, there's no way for them to do it. steve: that's exactly right. you can look at the demographics and compare how the candidates are doing relative to how the

exit candidates were doing for years ago. in this election, it was a 19 point swing in the favor of democrats and if i was mitch mcconnell or paul ryan, i would be very concerned. if these numbers hold, you have a down ballot the backbone if you are a republican. mark: thank you very much. a full write up of this poll on our website. a great day to look at this extraordinarily important group of voters. we will be right back. ♪

mark: our things to jane sanders and steve mcmahon for joining us

as to our friends, the birds. check out our poll, the latest slice whole with a great look at married women. coming up, emily chang to the founder of boehner media. the new york riemer he is one week away. anybody campaigning in your neighborhood? campbell: no. the donald trump vote in tribeca or the ted cruz vote in tribeca? mark: john will be back tomorrow. we thank campbell for joining us. we will see tomorrow. thank you for watching. sayonara. ♪

mark: i'm mark crumpton and you are watching "bloomberg west." u.s. secretary of state john the memorial to

the atomic bombing seven decades after the u.s. use the weapon. 140,000 japanese were killed. the trip makes secretary kerry the most senior american official to travel to hiroshima. u.s. naval officer charged with spying for china and taiwan. the suspect has been identified in multiple media reports as lieutenant commander edward lynn. he was born in taiwan and became a naturalized citizen. it is the second day of their weeklong tour of india. the new poll says half the u.s. approves of president obama's job performance. it's the first time that has happened since 2013. the associated press reports seeing an up sick across a number of issues, including the economy. the white house