>> i am campbell brown. mark: i am mark halperin and with all due respect to bernie sanders, we have your best friend of michelle. aboutll: we are talking jane. mark: let's get started by talking about another unpredictable creature who tweets, donald trump. we will have the latest bloomberg policy online poll that has some good data about

how donald trump is doing against married women voters, but first let's understand why donald trump is the writing the complex rules by which publicans and democrats elect their dell -- select delegates. after the convention in colorado on saturday, trump is starting to criticize the cruz crusaders who are outmaneuvering trump. trump's rhetorical campaign follows -- where bernie sanders crushed hillary clinton in the popular vote and walked away with the same number of delegates as his rival. here is donald trump making the case for himself and for sanders in a rally in rochester, new york last night. i bernie, and he wins, he wins, he keeps winning. they say, he has a chance. why doesn't he have a chance? because the system is corrupt. it is worse on the republican

side. i am up by millions of votes. i don't mean by two votes. i am of millions and millions of votes. we are supposed to be a democracy. we're supposed to be, you vote and the vote mean something. what they are doing, whether it sanders, allie the victories that he is got and you look at the establishment -- it is a corrupt deal in this country. mark: today, the chairman of the republican national committee, mr. reince priebus, defended the nomination process. and thethem's the rules selection process is fair. is donald trump correct that it is unfair? campbell: the rules are the rules. ownfact that trump's children are not able to vote in the primary in new york

demonstrates how unprepared they are, how little they know about the rules. you cannot even get your own family registered in time? it is absurd. this is the way the process is designed to work. the rules may be crazy, but they are not arbitrary. they were decided on by the party, or the voters in the state. that is part of the campaign process, being organized, learning the rules and playing by the rules. mark: i agree that the rules are the rules, but i think that trump is right. people would be shocked if they knew that there is not a great correlation between the voters voting and who gets the vote. won the: al gore popular vote ended up to the presidency and accepted it. mark: in that case, there was also the question of votes in florida whether more people went to the polls intending to vote for al gore. i agree with you that they should understand the rules, that they should not whine about

them. but as a talking point, bernie sanders and i are outsiders, the insiders are fixing the game. he is exaggerating, but he is striking a chord. campbell: i think that the rules are designed this way to build consensus around the nominee. they are not about getting the popular vote or increasing the popular vote, they are about getting the establishment people and the engaged party activists on board with one person. that is why they are written the way they are. mark: the news should stop reporting the popular vote as if that is who won, because it ain't. campbell: fair point. here is a question for avid tv watchers, why was this sunday different from all other sundays? the answer, donald trump did not do a single sunday show, not even c-span's "newsmakers."

this is the first sunday were trump has not phoned in or taped a sunday interview. but trump gathered the press am a following him on saturday, so they can watch him tour the national museum, but afterward he did not take a single question. or --rump did do a phone did do a phoner this morning. mark: i never want to argue in favor of a candidate talking to the press less, i think he is smart playing to supply and demand here. when he does less, reporters play off of each other. if he picks his spots more and does more local press, which is below the radar, i think he is in a better position for himself to control the message more than he has. campbell: i think that just because he is doing less media does not mean he is getting less media. are stillchannels

taking his press conferences and rallies live. he has basically taken over the media. they have given up editorial control. he says i will not do a sitdown interview i will only do phoners, and they take them. he says i will not engage with you, but tape my rallies. they tape his rallies. it is a tribute to trump's finance -- trump's finesse and brilliance how he has manipulative the media. he may be giving less, but it does not mean he is getting less. lately, ted cruz has exhibited a good quality that might make for a good middle manager at staples. that is delegating. cruz as foreign delegates, but the road is clogged by states that do not like him so much. the next six primaries are in the northeast and the mid-atlantic states, including zew york where a poll shows cru

in third place with 18% of the vote. moredoes not return to a friendly stretch of the primary calendar until indiana. cruz is in california today. is he going to pay a price if he finishes third in these northeastern's? mark: i think he will in two ways. he needs to keep accumulative delegates so he is within hailing distance to win on the third ballot and his argument to get kasich out of the race to ministers if he cannot finish second. we have like one month where there are only northeastern states. it's much better off for him if he can surge and prove that he can compete in these states, which means showing he can compete for more moderate voters. campbell: does any of this uz it is just cr about getting to an open convention. you are not going to win outright, so he is just trying

to keep trump from getting to that magic number. mark: the danger for cruz is, if that is the only way he can win, he has to have enough delegates and a general election argument that he becomes the alternative. if trump fails the first ballot, cruz needs to win on the second or third. if he has not won by the second, he probably can't. if you cannot win on the third ballot, i don't know if he can win on the fourth. he might be able to but he has to accumulate as much as he can. he can't argue that john kasich is irrelevant if you cannot beat john kasich in these contests even though it is the northeast. campbell: i would argue now that, cruz -- i think that the trump voters are the trump voters. trump is not necessarily convincing new people, those people are not switching to it is about,cruz, how do you expand turnout? in new york, he may come in

third, but you have a governor there who hates trump, who has said he will not endorse, but maybe if you get him engaged more to ramp up turnout to get that percentage down. mark: cruz has switched to more of an economic and jobs argument. this is a proving ground and testing ground in california and other western states. it is america's favorite guessing game. who will be the republican presidential nominee and how will that person be selected? over the past few days i have gone on twitter and done an unscientific twitter poll with four options, one, trump will win before the convention. two, trump will win at the convention, three, ted cruz will win, or four, some other outcome. the tallies match exactly what my reporting finds. there is a total disparity between what people think is

going to happen with trump winning at the convention the scenario at least predicted and the other three are basically tied. this is not scientific, but now i will last you to vote. of those four choices, which is the most likely outcome? campbell: i think it is more scientific than a lot of the polling we have seen. mark: a big sample. and if they follow me on twitter, they have refined taste. campbell: there you go. for trump, he has to win on the first ballot. don't you think that most of the trump people you are talking to have conceded as much? mark: they won't go all the way and say it is the only way to win, but they see that things become a lot dicier. i'm asking the most likely, not to break down the possibilities. campbell: i think that is not the most likely. i do think that he goes to the second or third and it becomes aboutcruz -- about cruz and his organizing ability. mark: you think that ted cruz is

the most likely? campbell: i think it is. mark: i think if he does really well in the northeast and wins in indiana, i think he can get there before the commission. there is a six week interval between the last day of the primaries and the convention. if trump is within 100, he can ensure me his way to a majority -- he can shimmy his way to a majority. campbell: we are talking a 20-30 delegate difference. that is how close. coming up, what is the difference between classified and classified? president obama explains it all and talks about hillary clinton's home e-mail server. later we sit down with bernie here in thefe, jane studio. ♪

campbell: welcome back, everybody. we will be talking to jean sanders in just a few mona -- jane sanders in just a few moments. first, hillary clinton -- lastly, sanders was calling her unqualified to be president because her super pac takes money from wall street and because of the position on the iraq war and trades. sen. sanders: she may have the experience to be president, no one can argue that, but in terms of her judgment, something is clearly likely -- lacking. my point is, it is a question of judgment. i have my doubts about what can a president she would make. campbell: mark, does sanders stepped over the line in the realm of personal attacks when he questions her judgment? mark: i don't think so. the clintons bristled at this

today, but this is the essence. of what you look for in a president. good judgment -- this -- but this is the essence of what you look for in a president, good judgment. it's the kind of argument that all candidates should make. campbell: some of the clinton people are still smarting over the "not qualified" comments. but to be combining about this, welcome -- to be complaining about this, welcome to politics. is it any harsher than what barack obama said in 2008, any harsher than she was on him? this is a campaign. grow up. mark: bernie sanders would have been better making this argument right out of the gate in wisconsin. his strongest case against her is on things like trade, and the iraq war, where he can say this

is my judgment and her judgment. what can a president to you want? for a lot of voters in the state, those are big comparisons. she has her own to make in her favor, but these are strong in his favor. campbell: it feels a bit like helicopter parenting by democratic leaders, finger wagging. mark: bernie sanders made several stops around gotham city , culminating with a big rally in front of a roller coaster at coney island yesterday. the polls show him lagging behind clinton in the empire state. he is trailing hillary clinton poll, outbc news today. his campaign is now saying that new york is not a must win state for him, even though coming into this, a lot of pundits said it was.

campbell: i think that they are spinning. he has to win new york if he wants the nomination, but it feels like he needs a big wildcard moment of some kind to change the dynamic. win new york or not win. unexpected is, will hillary clinton make another mistake or gaffe along the way? we don't know. even if he does not win new york, we don't know. it will be a long, hard slog for her in a matter what. mark: if he wins by a lot or loses by a little, it does not affect his chances of being the nominee. there are too many delegates in new york for him to say, he does not need to win here. his chances of being the nominee do not go down appreciably, but he needs to win here. up delegatesick

and he needs some momentum of beating her. factors the gee whiz of saying, i beat her in new york. campbell: president obama sat down with fox news on sunday where he was asked about that pesky investigation into her server. first, obama said he could not speak about the investigation, and said he could not interfere, then he spoke about it anyway, once again a soldering his party's likeliest nominee. pres. obama: hillary clinton was an outstanding secretary of state. she would never put america in any kind of jeopardy. there is classified and then there is classified. there is stuff that is really thenecret top-secret, there is stuff you might not want going out over the wire, but is basically stuff you could get in open-source. said you were prepared to

say she has not jeopardized, can you still? pres. obama: i continue to believe she has a jeopardized america's national security. i have also said, and she has a knowledge to, -- she has acknowledged, that there is a carelessness in terms of managing e-mails that she has owned and recognizes. campbell: today, press secretary josh ernst defended his boss and how the president knows what he knows about the investigation. >> the president has neither sought nor received confidential briefing or confidential information about the investigation. his knowledge is based entirely on public reporting. ofs is one of the benefits the approach that secretary clinton and her team have taken to dealing with this matter. campbell: why is the president talking again about this e-mail investigation? mark: beats me.

if he is only learning about this from public information are not, to say i want it to be independent and it and try to exonerate her as the person overseeing the justice department and keeping arm's-length, i don't get it. i don't know if he is trying to help her or what. it makes no sense to me. just say, it is ongoing and i have nothing to do with it. testify to her honesty, but to talk about the specifics of the case, i do not get it. campbell: i agree. i was stunned when i heard him say it. any president would be expected to say, it is ongoing and i cannot comment, then to say you do not want to influence what is going on, but to be very over to about your views, there is no better way to influence the entire justice department. mark: he has no inside information that he cannot possibly exonerate her. they may have found more than is in the papers. campbell: it is a testament to

how much she is struggling that he would feel the need to step in. mark: i guess so. when we come back, jane sanders will tell us about her husband's latest lands, after this word from our sponsors. ♪

mark: our guest tonight is jane sanders, wife of bernie sanders, who dreams of being the next first lady. now, we will talk more about the concrete jungle where dreams are made of. april -- new york and

the april 19th primary. campbell: she rolled her eyes with dreams are made of. mark: how is it going there? >> it is our state, we are both born and bred here. it's great to be home. going to coney island and having so many people there. in the south bronx, 18,500 people at a rally, it has been fantastic. mark: your husband has said, you may be from vermont, but you are not intimidated by this. isn't intimidating at all? jane: we are not intimidated by new york. we love it. now that you mention it, probably about the election, because secretary clinton represented in new york, but it feels like home to me. mark: just do this. jane: [laughter] campbell: your husband has made this complaint that the process has been unfair, given the way

that the delegate rules are designed. do you agree with that? jane: i do think he thought so much that it was unfair. it does seem kind of silly that 30% of the votes that you need are non -- they are superdelegates. they are people that are not the voters. that doesn't seem quite right. i know that is what the republicans wish they had at this point in time. we just don't agree with that. one person, one vote. mark: what do you said your grandkids, grandpa won wyoming by 12 points and got the same number of delegates. what would you say? jane: every state has its own rules. i don't like how they figure it out, but it does not make a lot of sense to me. those of the rules that were set by before we entered. mark: unlike donald trump, you would not say they are corrupt or fixed? jane: no, everybody does their own way.

it is interesting to see state-by-state. i would like to see more of a federal election where you win a state and every state has the same requirements for registration, for instance, independents cannot vote in new york. we are building the democratic party, yet we are keeping them out if last october they did not decide to register as democrats. that doesn't seem smart. campbell: you mentioned the superdelegates and the role that they play. you are trying to sway them and bring them over, what is your message to them? jane: the key is to look at who is the best candidate for the general election. whoever is the democratic party nominee will win the bvase -- base of the party. who wins the independents, and who sways? bernie has done that throughout. he wins independents everywhere. got 25% of the

republicans. they say, we know you, we trust you, we might not agree with everything, that we know we can count on you. he is look at the polls, doing much better against all of the republicans than secretary clinton. mark: jane sanders, standby. will come back with more from jane sanders, of vermont and new york, after this. ♪

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thank you, ping. reliably fast internet starts at $59.95 a month. comcast business. built for business. campbell: we are back with one of bernie sanders's closest advisers, and occasionally she

is his primary news source, like when she broke the news to him that he had won the wyoming caucuses. jane sanders, thank you for being here. we were talking earlier about the delegate rules and the superdelegates, but talk to us about your role in all of this. how you define it, as someone campaigning for him. you are involved in his ad making. jane: there are about a half dozen of us that work with bernie on anything necessary. a strategic role. it started with just buying the furniture for the office. whatever needed to be done was done. now i travel with him a lot, which has been really nice. and really talking about strategy, scheduling, and television advertising. mark: apparently there is one role you have uniquely, you are

the family cpa. jane: turbotax. mark: yours is a candidate who says, trust me when i release my taxes, there will be no problem. . but he won't say when, or what is in them -- but he won't say, when he will, or what is in the. jane: that is my fault. mark: they aren't on file anywhere? jane: some are on file, but we have not been home for a month. asked,ks ago somebody and we said, of course we will release them, and we will. mark: and not just a summary? jane: share. mark: donald trump said, trust me, i will release them eventually, would you say, that is fine, there is nothing in them, no problem? jane: i would say, when they are due, i would expect them to come

out. i will say, every other year, i asked for an extension, but this era knew i could not do that. mark: you will release how many years? jane: how many do you want? mark: the clintons have released eight. jane: they have been in office this whole time. mark: senator sanders has been in the senate. jane: we did them when he ran for election. mark: we look forward to that. jane: i will release this year's as soon as they are due, and can i have time to go home. mark: sure. you are saying there is nothing in them. jane: we are pretty boring. mark: you have said income -- senate income, what else do you have? jane: social security. i sold my mom's condo at the beginning of the year. that's about it. mark: a pretty simple return. jane: pretty simple. campbell: this is more on the

republican side, a kerfuffle about melania trump and heidi cruz that came out, with the attention being paid to whites and spouses. do you think that -- to wives and spouses. do you think that is fair? jane: i do think that families are fair game. spouses put themselves out there in a supportive role. to criticize people, as trump did for heidi cruz, for her looks, that's ridiculous. first of all, she is a very nice-looking woman, but beyond that, it is not nice to take personal attacks against anybody, let alone the spouses. it is fine to ask questions of them. campbell: are you leaving for italy with your husband? jane: yes. mark: the new york primary is in

eight days and you will spend two days which is like a quarter of a time left. jane: one and a half. we are leaving after the debate, first thing saturday morning. we will have events on saturday. we have been in new york all this time and we will continue. we have been in new york a lot more than secretary clinton with her fund-raising trips everywhere. mark: does anyone think it is a bad use of time? jane: everyone things it is the right thing to do. mark: what will you do there? jane: bernie will be speaking at the invitation of the vatican to talk about a moral economy. that is quite an invitation that you do not want to reject. this is quite an honor, and it is something that he feels very strongly -- that pope francis is an excellent leader, in the issues he talks about are similar to the ones that bernie talks about. mark: you don't want my rome

restaurant recommendations because you're coming back. next time. thing he jumped on one said and he was tempted to apologize, that was a paraphrase. you think for your husband and the other candidates that the press and political opponents seize on one word too often, rather than looking at the totality of what is said? is that a fair criticism of the political process? jane: i would definitely say that. it is crazy that the story is the mistake, not what the intent was. i think that bill clinton probably regrets how he handled that question or, b -- questioner, but he was speaking but other things as well. mark: i would say that you are right, but your campaign has occasionally than that to your political opponent. is that fair?

take onewill sometimes thing that secretary clinton says and will exacerbate or exaggerate the impact? jane: i don't know if that is true. i think that is politics today. didways try to say, what she mean, what is the context? the overall with image that hillary clinton is trying to project, or doesn't fit with it, then we might put it out there, always in a larger context. campbell: you might not want to go here, but there are a lot of people in the pundit world who say, if he does not win in new york, it is over for sanders and he should not go on. how do you think about this over the long-term? is this a must-win? jane: no. that is the question that has

been asked in iowa, new hampshire, ohio, everywhere. everyone keeps thinking, he can't make it. when he started, nobody took him seriously. the media did not cover him all throughout 2015 and now they are starting to. he has one thing eight of the last nine contests. he needs to do well in new york, and if he does well in new york, opponent's state that she represented, that says a lot. we're looking at momentum and how people are feeling about him. we are in an enviable position. the more people hear about bernie, the more they know him, the more they like him. it is unfortunate but did not know more about him before. we didn't decide to run until may. superdelegates that

hillary quentin one in massachusetts, should -- that hillary clinton won in massachusetts, should they be free to not go along r? jane: the superdelegates, most of them have been elected to represent their state. i would think that those are present in the state would look to, when you have a large margin, two thirds or more, i would think that would be a given. close,f the state's superdelegates should be free to vote either way? jane: they have to use their judgment, that is why they are superdelegates. . they can say i think bernie sanders is better than hillary clinton even though my state voted overwhelmingly for hillary clinton? jane: i think they should go with the majority of their voters. mark: so not use their judgment? jane: a big majority.

with a small majority, we have tied -- mark: so if close, they should use the judgment, but if a big margin they should vote with them? jane: i think they will do whatever they do, but it seems 70% fair when bernie wins of the vote in these elections, that the superdelegates follow. mark: we did not get the talk about "hannibal," next time. jane: it was great. mark: good luck on the trail. campbell: up next, a republican senior strategist joins us after this. ♪

mark: joining us now, the former chairman -- senior advisor to president bush's campaign, and amend that we like to talk to. al is currently not supporting any major candidate. al: great to be here. surprised ifry donald trump does not fall short by 100 or 80 delegates. ted cruz hasmaybe a shot at getting within 200, and they will be within 200 delegates, either because they are released by the folks they are there to represent or because there are not seek members or senators. they could tilt this thing before you walk into the convention hall. it is up to either of those candidates to do that, but as

everyone is getting individual delegate information, who they like to fish with, who they golf with. this gets very personal, very specific. obviously these delegates are worth their weight in gold. campbell: is that really happening right now? dealmaking and lobbying at that granular level? al: i believe that you will see that as inevitable. right now, two thirds of the campaigns are concentrating on adding delegates. then there is another crew there to do the intel work, find out how strongly they feel. where they bear because of the candidate or because their friend selected them -- were they there because of the candidate, or because their friend selected them. are not therest

because they are enthusiastic followers, but because they are donors, elected officials, or party regulars. they will do what they are supposed to do, but at the end of the day, they will vote with their heart. mark: we debate this all the time, do you think that the delegates care about electability? they will say, i want this person because they can win a general election? al: if you are really for a particular candidate, it doesn't matter what the polls say. your heart is taking you there. your heart says that candidate will win and we will figure out the path to get there. if you are a party regular, you will be much more pragmatic. you will be looking at the polls, end they should be worried. they are not being very kind to the two likely nominees. campbell: how do you weight that? how many are there because of their heart or because they are

elected officials or donors? al: you can throw traditional outlooks out the window in this election cycle. one of the two who are likely to be our nominees, are not those who have a long track record of support. bush ornot reagan or even bob dole. this will be the first time since eisenhower, other than you willsh, jr., where elect someone who has not been a nominee or been in the process once before. just about every republican nominee has run once before. this time, people are just getting to know some of these candidates. people are saying, is donald trump really like this? does ted cruz have a soft spot in his heart? people are trying to figure them out as we speak. campbell: why hasn't the establishment crowd rallied

around john kasich more? if they are not falling in love, they are still trying to figure out cruz and trump, why hasn't kasich than the alternative? al: love is a two-way street. donald trump, you would think by now he would be rounding up the strong putting out some messages about wanting to unite the party. what does he say, i don't want jeb bush's support, i don't want support from mitt romney. thes purposefully shunning potential support of others to bring the party together. think,oing that, i because he believes that the only records he has is to take control of the party, take control of the nomination, and win on his own terms. i don't believe donald trump thinks he can put the toothpaste back in the tube after the campaign he has run. mark: al, think you very much. a former party chairman and a

smart man about just what everything. up next, an online poll of about what married women take about donald trump and other candidates. if you're in washington, d.c., you can listen to us on the radio. we will be right back. ♪

mark: hot off the electronic press, our online poll. we call it a purple slice survey, because it looks at one important demographic, married women. group iney won that 2012, this year, married women

favor donald trump over ted cruz, but in a general election, ted cruz, donald trump and john kasich all have extremely unfavorable numbers -- donald trump, hillary clinton, and ted cruz all have extremely unfavorable numbers. --t a splenda methodology explain the methodology. had the brilliant idea to take a look at the slices of the electorate that will make a big difference to determine the outcome. look at how they are performing this year, as opposed to four years ago. you have already given the headline. women, hillary clinton has a 12 point lead over donald trump which represents a 19 point swing in the direction of democrats. go down the ballot, looking at senate and house races, look

what happens when you put a 19 point swing in there. that will not be a pretty picture for republicans if this holds. campbell: is that surprising news? the good news for hillary quentin? >> it is -- for hillary clinton? >> it is very good news. campbell,ell -- mark, neither ofed that these candidates look very appealing on their own, -- if i were in the clinton campaign tonight, i would be happy. mark: if you are in the trump campaign, would you say that is good news? >> donald trump leads in areas where you would expect him to lead. if you ask, who will do a better job changing washington, donald trump has a lead among married women. if you ask, who will bring new

ideas to washington, donald trump has a lead. if you ask, who will be better at creating jobs in america, donald trump's business experience really helps in their. on the other side, if you ask, who is ready day one, hillary clinton wins that. if you ask, who has the temperament to be president, which is something i think you will see focused on a little bit more, hillary clinton has the lead. if you ask, who will be a better role model, obviously donald trump does not win that. all of those things are good news for the clinton camp. campbell: and know that you asked about trump's position on abortion, tell us what people said about that. notirst of all, people do really understand what his position is as much as they think. women, these married women, the purple slice that we

looked at, reported that his position on abortion is not the same as theirs. another 19 correctly identified his position, and 34% were unsure. four or fives abortion answers -- most voters have not received the information. they think he is not standing where they are, which is a problem for him. they are not sure where he stands, with the exception of a majority of women who understand where he is. . i still don't. mark: we will do more of the slice polls, but it is safe to say it you can slice and dice to find a way the republicans might be able to win the popular vote, but if they don't do better than the survey says with married women, there is no way to do it, right? >> that is exactly right. you can look at these demographics and compare how the

candidates are doing today, relative to how the exit polls show, candidates to have done four years ago and in this -- four years ago, and at this point, -- regardless of how donald trump does, if these numbers hold, you have a down ballot debacle if you are a republican. mark: a full right up of this -- write-up of this poll online right now. campbell and i will be right back. ♪

mark: our thanks to jane as, and, al cardien

steve. the latest slice bowl is on there now. coming up, emily chang speaks to onara media.of bay and the new york primary, one week away. anyone campaigning in your? campbell: -- in your neighborhood? campbell: no. mark: john will be back tomorrow, with a campbell for joining us. we think these pesky birds for joining us. sayonara. ♪

>> is tuesday the 12th of april. this is trending business. rishaad: we'll be taking a singapore tokyo in sydney. watching the side of malaysia's fund.ed a parliamentary hearing indicating the prime minister could've been involved in the decisions on questionable transactions. they're hoping the new handset will build on yeer