john: i'm john heilemann. i'm mark halperin. with all due respect to bernie, -- verizon, can you hear me now? ♪ on the show tonight a trump family sitcom. but first, some action and drama, with less than a week to go to the new york binary. the front-runners in both parties, hillary clinton and donald trump, hold commanding lead not just an empire state, but other eastern states up to vote after new york.

both parties are still struggling to unify their fractured party before the convention. tonight, we start by looking at the pair of front wars starting with the democrats. new polls from quinnipiac university and emerson college today show hillary clinton leading bernie sanders in new maryland, and 49-43 in maryland. thea medieval of clinton-sanders debate in brooklyn, tensions are quite high between the two democrats and their camps on issues of are very important to the left. such as guns, wall street, and fracking. today, sanders picked up his first endorsement from a colleague in oregon. , picketingaigned communications giant verizon. john, how was hillary clinton doing in her attempt to bring the left into work camp, while she continues to battle bernie sanders? john: there are a couple

different less. there is the activist, feel the bern -- i don't think she is doing well according to them. a strong speech there today, appealing to african-americans. the left she has done well with, she has continued to do well withvery but she shores up those groups. i think we should -- i think she will do well with those in new york. there are a lot of bernie sanders supporters who speak despairingly of hillary clinton. i'm not sure she needs them in the general election. these are people who are new to the process. it may not require getting them. but i think people understand that simultaneously, when and if she vanquishes bernie sanders, she needs to do something for the people on the left, and moved to center. but her greatest gift would be if donald trump or ted cruz of the republican nominees, that will bring a lot of democrats home from the left.

john: she needs of those votes. millennials, in big numbers, and a big percentage of them, was a part of how he was able to win. she is going to need those people. she does not mean the stories of how the people in the democratic party will stay with him. it is possible trump will bring new people out in november if he is the nominee. mark: i see sanders supporters all the time who did not vote for barack obama. there are new people. john: for some of these people it is the first time they go. 'sw to the republicans, trump polling margins are just as hefty as clinton's. york here, and also in connecticut, which could trigger winner take all scenarios for collecting delegates in those states. overs a more than 24% lead ted cruz and john kasich in maryland. clinching the

nomination before the summer. , who has hired wiley previously worked for the scott walker campaign. a new political director. yet for all of that, he spoke openly and bitterly with party leaders over the delegate selection process. in theow was trump doing battle to bring the establishment into his camp? mark: today, as a snapshot, not so well. the things i hear about rick wiley being hired, he is not doing well. how dare he? disappointing, he is doing this for all the wrong reasons, even for people who like him. at the republican national committee by his own choice, they think it will be fine if he wins the nomination. but there is still obviously a strong anti-, never trump movement.

it now seems laughable when using stories that say we hate ted cruz so much, maybe trump is better. trump has a long way to go to unify his party. john: there is a difference between -- people have written many stories, that bringing palm and afford and rick wiley, that trump is trying to professionalize his campaign. it could be a sign of maturity on his part. on the other hand, it has nothing to do with the broader question of getting mainstream republicans, or the establishment, another inside game, of campaign consultants, has nothing to do with them. -- since chris christie, there has not been an endorsement like that. no cruz has gotten virtually endorsements in wisconsin. marco rubio last night said nice things about him. john: we will talk about them later. mark: but trump has a long way to go. whenever people bring up donald

trump's troubled election numbers, the answer is always the same. those numbers will change and improve once he turns his full attention, including his nicknaming virtuosity against hillary clinton. but john, leading with personal attacks, certainly part of a trump-clinton general election, use as issuesmp to his benefit, in a hypothetical clinton-trump election? john: he has had a tough time sticking with the economic message, his early entree. he has had a hard time being disciplined. try to argue he is the manager, understands business, working to unify the sector, understands world affairs on the economic level better than hillary clinton. he could make claims to that, and i think he will try. he will try to say that on issues like trade, although she noto the left, she is credible given her husband's

history. mark: i think he would use immigration as an issue against her, campaign finance. i think he would go deep into the clinton foundation, the super pacs, all the sources of big money. and the last thing he would do, is economics. even though it would not be a positive agenda, he would try to hang the obama economy around her neck. the question is not will or could. he could do all those things. but as i said at the very beginning of my rather too long answer, he is undisciplined at sticking to what could be useful messages. the question is whether he is able to do those things, even if they are available to him. her: i think he will ask what she did as secretary of state. a lot of democrats struggled to answer that on her behalf. does knowdanger, she a lot more about foreign policy than he does. when we come back, ted cruz's ballet to woo the republican

donor class. ♪

♪ campaign has been working on their master third ballot on a win at the republican national convention in cleveland this summer. to pull it off, one of the courting, is the republican donor class, who was not convinced cruz is the only alternative to trump as the nominee. if he does not get this on the first ballot, will this money ontry will be open to cruz the back ballot? debate, he up for

does well in fancy all, but his public performance changes dramatically. he had some success in chicago, l.a., francis, but if we get to cleveland and it is clear that trump will get the nomination, is the first race of the moneyed class, he will get a lot. it could be decisive in his winning nomination. john: a dirty little secret about ted cruz. harvard'sceton and ted cruz, whose wife works for goldman sachs. it shows you he has a certain cultural affinity for these people that work at these most paradigmatic institutions of the moneyed class. thing, the other dirty little secret, in this town of new york city, you go to around two people who work in finance, a lot of people know donald trump, and a lot of people don't hate them but they don't particularly like him. mark: there is another group of the moneyed class huge in

cleveland, lobbyists. they will be all over the place, faced with the choice of trump or cruz could well swing dramatically to cruz. they could help create a dynamic in cleveland, if it comes to that, time to vote for cruz, and not risk from winning. trumpyou don't hear talking like the old, antiestablishment trump of old, the jerk he was. not taking the hammer and cudgel against those groups. a "full house," -- it was a full house family-style, when donald trump appeared on stage with his wife and his four children. yet nice words to say about what it was like to grow up trump.

>> i think i was always a very good father. my children have done a good job, and will continue to do a good job. >> he is an amazing father, a great human being, and amazing dealmaker. he has all his so much love for us and our entire family. he is on my best friends in the entire world. >> eyewitness these incredible female role models he has employed in the highest positions of the trump organization. it is a testament to the fact that he believes in inspiring and empowering women. he always taught me that there was not anything i could not do, if i set my mind to it. >> my father, since i have been a little girl, has inspired me, and had so much faith in me to be the best person i can become of the best women i can be. >> if they attack him, he will attack back. i have never had a glass of

alcohol, and yet i own one of the biggest wineries. it is a crazy thing. my brother was so instrumental in shaping this. i don't know what the outcome would have been. when my children were growing up, even when he did not know what drinking was, i said no alcohol, no cigarettes, and no drugs. >> is that something you remember distinctly growing up? >> absolutely. every morning, every day of our life. >> every morning? >> absolutely. mark: trump has appeared another town halls. everyone i know who watched last night was really impressed with trump, stylistically. what you think that was? john: i watched last night, and i was impressed. mark: when i said everyone i knew, i was including you. john: he was a normal candidate, that is the most striking thing about it. kids have a reputation for being people think she is

personable and a fine person. they all came across well on stage. the main thing about this, this was not donald trump in all of his trumpian craziness. striking, he was just an average, ordinary, normal guy. and that was very striking to almost anybody that was watching it. mark: and there were long stretches when he could've talked, and he chose not to, and let them talk. all the kids are impressive and funny and interesting, and it was more like a normal family, and he was more like a normal person than he is came across in a while. the validation they bestow upon him by showing so much love and respect for him, nothing like it. john: the only problem of course, he will go out several hours later, probably to their frustration, and behave in ways that are outlandish and cartoonish and offensive to people, and you hear all the time, they are telling him to be more presidential. whether they seem to want, is to have the donald trump they know,

to be more of his public persona, then the more cartoonish when we see frequently. every day behaving like a normal person is a good day for him. "washington post," fact checkers have been handing out more pinocchio's at the gift shop. bernie sanders claim that he visited a facility in vermont, and knocked down hillary clinton's insinuation of the amount of vermont guns used in new york time -- new york. there is already a debunked claim on the show on monday that the sanders household has released tax returns for several years. there are plenty of documented, misleading statements from trump and the other republicans as well, but we can't list them, because the show is only an hour pinocchio's,lot is do any of these matter for 2016? checking.ve fact

the most part, the major organizations do a good job. the problem, there is so much spin and effort made to knocked down, and so many pinocchios, and this is my criticism of the pinocchio-the stores -- wers, it becomes a foul instead of an infraction. john: they try to differentiate between a foul and an infraction. a lie about big thing, versus a little lie about a little thing. john: you could tell a smaller lie about an important thing politically be more consequential. and there is also the other thing we have done many times, which is our news cycle moves so fast.

the combination of the white noise element you have cited, and the speed at which this progresses, it is hard for any of these things to really take hold, and have political consequence and matter in the fact checkers,e that used to be called newspapers, used to exist. mark: three-dimensional pinocchios. it is concert/rally, with a bunch of celebrities tonight. we will check down there after a word from our sponsors. ♪

♪ so from where we sit in the studio, you will see sanders holding a star-studded rally,

including the band "vampire weekend," legend spike, and tim robbins, among many others. before those stars the stage, we're joined by a star reporter, who is in the -- are you in the park or outside it? think we are technically in the park, a sidewalk behind the barriers that have been that up, where there are working on letting people in. this is an important rally politically, barack obama did a huge rally there before the white house area how much does the sanders campaign think this village, heart of the a symbolic event, or a run-of-the-mill rally? is very: i think this symbolically important for the sanders campaign. it is one of three major rallies they have planned for the boroughs. this is one they have been working on for weeks, which is a much longer. period ofch longer

time. this is in hillary's adopted hometown, if you will. we saw them shift away from bernie sanders of the course of the past couple of days. i'm interested to see whether or not this is something that six around and resonates, and gives people a reason to give him another look in the new york primary. we felt the raise it shift away from sanders of the last couple of days. in what ways, and why? kasie: john, the polling, is showing clinton's lead is more durable than some of these other states where sanders has competed and closed the race aggressively in the final couple of days. that is what clinton people are telling me privately, behind the scenes. you are also feeling them, a little more on the defensive, in that they are talking about things going forward, superdelegates, handling potentially taking the

convention. edge in theing an voices both of the candidates, the spouses, and the people around him, just leave her, his campaign manager, in particular. there is generally a sense of movement away from, we are writing this momentum, to actually running into knives from the clinton campaign. it looks as though things are moving quite the way they initially were when they came here to new york a few days ago. mark: so we are about 24 hours away from the debate. i don't think sanders can say he easily won the debate, he had some rough times, and she did better. in a normal campaign, a candidate would really be preparing and focusing, saying this is my big chance, one-on-one in new york, i can break there. and after the debate he is leaving for rome in a couple days. as he prepared for this debate, psychologically, saying, i will

take her down, or not? kasie: when you ask who would be responsible for helping him do that, i would say i am hoping someone is preparing them for the debate. there is no time that is different from what it was in the past. pretty classic sanders, giving a speech tomorrow to al sharpton's group in the city. his agenda, which is a little unusual for a debate day. right, whether it is a typical might for him, and he needs to clean things up and push forward, he will be in the air on his way to rome. he will be campaigning out in the streets of new york, he will be on an airplane, closed to the press. there may be vatican , may be seeing a glimpse of the pope. but probably not. it is not 100% clear exactly how of romel be in and out

in under 40 hours. but some critical hours ahead of tuesday. john: we were at first incredulous about the trip to rome, and then baffled by it. they asked the campaign manager, and it was not explained to their satisfaction. it, notunderstand whether it was a good or bad thing to do, but politically, a risk he is taking. , why it wouldand happen for those reasons? why is he taking this risk? kasie: so far, all systems are go. they would have to put the stock to a lot of things, it is pretty far down the court at this point. john, this is something that bernie sanders himself, really wants to do. if you think about where he was invitations from the

vatican or their associated groups, not directly from the odd, but in audit -- an theological arm, that is not something he would have the opportunity to do before. he was a senator from vermont, not necessarily having the press that he has now. this will elevate him. a couple other international heads of state are speaking of this conference, from south america. it is putting him on a playing field, much elevated from the one he was able to play on before. that is something that he personally is invested in, and we have seen not just in this case, but over the course of the last few months, as bernie sanders gets used to the idea he was a plausible, democratic nominee, that this could really go his way, i don't think the vatican trip is the only area we have seen the impact on the candidate. mark: the chess players come of

the dog walkers, the baby strollers, and the dope dealers. got to watch that park. thank you, very much. in just a moment, we are going to talk more about the democratic race here in new york. knowf the best in the biz, the city very well. ♪

♪ john: if you think work in politics is more tired than revolution, it will be politicized. we have heard it all, but the downtown tribes that populate your city, a downtown area where

bernie sanders will host a huge, mega-rally this evening. there are not tired of hearing about revolutions. texturized men to the setting that has him -- immortalized new york's most ambitious dreamers. reporter: washington square park is headquarters, officially -- historically, of outsiders. park pretty well. i lived on it. right there, at the corner of 5th avenue, next to the monument. >> bernie sanders, all day. >> the park has been the center rights,st, civil affirmative action, the war in vietnam. appropriate that bernie sanders should come to his spiritual home, i would they.

guys are more than welcome to wait here, as well. 7:00, the get in, whole thing will start. >> i really want to see bernie sanders up close. peopleave really diehard who have come really, really early. >> i came last night, and was second in line. >> i watched as the sky, as the sun got brighter. i only see bernie sanders walking off to the right, so hopefully, he will come toward me. i know obama in 2008 got around 20,000 people here. bernie exceeds that. >> i love new york. a kind ofk is headquarters, a headquarters of social change. there are marijuana sellers here in the park. there are people who are down and out, people playing their guitar like bob dylan, and they

are not very good at all. square park ison in the better gold to everything washington has been. it is one of the few gathering laces in this neighborhood of gatherers. guest are not revolutionaries, a new can of peanut butter and jelly. we have them on the show last week to talk about the empire state primary. we are now going back for seconds. we have the new york post podhoretz,nd -- john and adam nagourney. most vivid memory? go. old,was about seven years and saw somebody having an acid trip right in front of me, as i was walking with a family friend. mark: keep in mind, the statute

of limitations. ,ohn: but go ahead, nagourney what is your favorite washington square memory? there to or three nights after the collapse of the seeingrade center, and people looking for lost relatives. it was obvious at that point, that people were gone, and how much washington square park is a community center. but i lived two blocks away from their. plus, the pot dealers. mark: let's talk about the democratic race. at last we talk on the contest was just underway. campaigning here is different from other places, for reasons well-known and we talked about. brooklyn, guy from and a woman who was senator in here. do you believe in conventional wisdom, that she is a better competitor here, with an idea of

how to campaign better here. appears tohink she be doing a lot better here than she was over the past months, which of course makes sense. if she did not have a feel for new york politics, having run and one here twice, she ought to hang it up and go home. i don't know whether he is not particularly adapt -- adapt -- adept. 40% or so of the boat is here in the city. has this big, what they hope to be iconic event tonight. he went to coney island, his old home in brooklyn, but has not seem to do what is required, in campaigning here, which is to create moments. my sense of him is that a lot of people, as we all know,

come to new york thinking, we have done iowa, we have done this before, and he is thinking i came from here, so i know how it is played. my sense is that he is trying to find his sea legs. it may be harder for him because he is coming in with the assumption, hey, i am a new yorker, i know this city better. i guess he is going to the van -- vticanhat can tomorrow. john p: i want to come back to that in a moment. it seems to me that the tensions between these campaigns has escalated in the past days. they got to new york and the gloves which had more or less been on, throughout the democratic nomination, sort of came off. who do you think is getting the better of that negativity?

i think at this point, it is hillary clinton. you don't expect it from bernie sanders. he has presented himself as a different type of politician. saying he was unqualified, it does not fit right. one of the things about him, his supporters, he is not part of the regular mold. think that because of the tabloid heath those of the place, brings out the negativity of the campaign. you're rewarded for being outrageous, and staging moments that breakthrough the clutter, which has always been more intense in new york i think, than any place else. the weird moments in new york have been on the republican side. you have john kasich going to a hasidic neighborhood in new york, misunderstanding which sect he was going to, and he

sect, andnon-zionist he lectured how the passover jesus'was related to birth. fake, bad moment. that is the type of bad tabloid moment that has gone on. ted cruz having trouble in the bronx. they are not having trouble with those, either sanders or hillary. john: we're going to take a break, because when you start talking about politics, we need move that along. we will talk more about that topic, and more deep leaguel -- deeply when we get back. ♪

♪ back with the bicoastal genius, adam nagourney of the "new york times," joining us, and john podhoretz. john, as viewers and followers --his know, he is following against donald trump. what gives you the most hope? procedural, ted cruz winning all these backdoor deals and out winning trump on the delegate selection, is perfectly legitimate, if you are watching just the outward campaign. has done say, cruz absolutely nothing to build on his victory in wisconsin. in fact, his numbers in new york seem to be going down and that about.

the polling in these subsequent states is not looking good for cruz, and looking pretty good for trump. stop trump movement is entirely a backdoor movement until may, when we shift back to the midwest and to the west for the last states. mark: adam, the california primaries six weeks away. is there any feeling out there, it has been some candidate activity, but -- know, this is not a state where you get primaries a lot. they are staying at the tail end of everything. but there is a lot of interest and excitement. i have seen sanders protesters in front of the streets at cnn, trump appointed a statewide campaign director, is coming here in two weeks. there is a lot of interest. it is a very interesting state.

there is a sense, and i will refer to you guys, that this state could be determinate in who the republican nominee is. --n p: don't turn to me john: don't turn to me too quick, adam. you pointed out it is very important. explain how on the republican side, what is the state of the california republican party? what will it look like out there, because people think of california as a blue state. thoseon't understand what 53 congressional districts can do. talk about that a little bit. adam: first of all, it is a minority party. they have less than, i believe, independent registered voters. it is diminishing influence, they don't control the governors or the house. it used to be the center of attention. right now, in this state, i think probably like new york, it is a congressional district --

which means, trump is going to do very well, and win delegates. i cannot see him sweeping the whole state. there are parts of the state where cruz is doing very well, congressional districts, again. so there will be mixed results. my guess now, trump is the overall popular vote. we will come out with a significant number of delegates, but not a sweep like they will get in new york. john p: if that is the result, then cruz is in a lot of trouble. if earlyan't build -- part of may and june is still trump territory, and he is closer to a majority than cruz is, five weeks before the convention, assuming he does not get the specified number of will not lookuz

like a winner, not a guide to turn to in stead of tron. you said a second ago, things are going well for cruz. given the state of where your party is right now, how does that set up for going to cleveland. john: how well is that going to go down in the party? it would be a lot worse if ted cruz were jeb bush doing this. he comes into the race with his own antiestablishment credentials. he has demonstrated competency in his candidacy, and trump's incompetence at managing the rules of the republican party belies his claim that he is the guy coming from the outside to reform american politics. that said, if you don't win, you don't win. if trump wins, and keeps winning

more safe, and cruz is not winning states, i don't know what type of argument that is. that is an argument for throwing the whole thing out, saying now we have four days to find the best person to run against hillary, and it does not look like it is either of you guys. not go with the guy that has less than the guy in the lead. it signifies nothing. worse than nothing. a year and a month, or a year and two months of campaigning will have ended in failure for everyone. is hisonald trump, this first new york primary as a candidate, how well is he doing fitting in is a candidate? adam: it looks like he is doing well in terms of fitting into the culture of the state. i have not seen them create any but maybe heet, does not need to.

he seems to be a better fit for kasich.e than cruz or he has been involved in the media culture of new york since the 80's, and has been close to andgossip columnists political reporters. he knows how the place works. as we talked about before, it is much different than it was, but there are similarities. he knows the dynamics and politics of the state, he is played that well, and it shows. playing theas also world largest, unforced error. saying he represents -- saying cruz represents new york values, that was poor short-term and long-term thinking. to say ted cruz has new york bad,s, new york values are

he is gone down in the polls. thank you, both. coming up, former ted cruz spokesman tyler joins us more for more on the public in race, after this. if you're watching us in washington dc, you can watch us on the radio at 99.1 fm. we will be right back. ♪

♪ mark: joining us now to talk more about where the presidential race stands on the tyler, an side, rick analyst for msnbc. he joins us from the washington bureau.

rick, a big debate in the party is whether or not the way the nominee is picked is democratic, responsive to the will of the voters, etc.. foring aside your affinity ted cruz, do you think it is time to look at the process for the next cycle, and see a more direct correlation to the number of votes you get a number of delegates, or not? as you know, each convention they try to fix the problems the last convention, and i suspect that will go on forever. there is a correlation between the votes and the delegates, by and large. most of the delegates on the first ballot will be valid. after that, a gets -- it gets much looser. by the third ballot it is only 80%. mark: but the earlier part of the process is the selection of the delegates. colorado, those

delegates are not being selected party ofpublican colorado, they are being selected by insiders. should there be a bigger correlation between grassroots voters, and who gets to go to cleveland? rick: that is up to colorado. they have done what they have done, very similarly in the past. other states choose to do it differently. that is essentially a form of federalism. the states decide how they will choose their own delegates. some like the party to have more control over the delegates. in other words, if you are not a member of the republican party, why should outsiders decide were candidate should be? the other side says we should have a more open, democratic process open to everybody. we have a hybrid. we have a mix in between, colorado decide one way, new york and way, california another. it will be up to the state. but i don't wanted to go through

the republican national committee through some edict to go all one way are all another way. it is fine to choose to do with the way they want to do it. john: i want you to put aside your affinity not just for senator cruz, but put aside the merits in this case. powerfulpolitically argument to make, that the system is rigged? the argument trump is making right now, given the populist energy in the party, things that have animated so many republican voters this cycle, is that not a potent political message trump is delivering right now? rick: it can be a powerful political argument, but it is also dishonest area when he is saying, is that it is rigged. he thinks people are changing the rules as they go along, and that is not happening. watchingittle like football with someone who has never played the sport. on one side, you have a pro-football team, and then he fumbled the ball, and complains that the referees are against them.

he meant that throw it to his own team member, the intercepted it, they got a touchdown, oh, that is unfair. and this just goes on and on and on. there are rules. john: if you can see that it is a politically powerful argument, tot is the counter argument appeal to process, which is presumably what ted cruz is trying to do right now, what is that argument going to be for him that counters what trump is saying for him, that has a visceral, powerful response to voters? rick: do we really want to have the largest states decide who gets to be the nominee? in the same way george w. bush lost the popular vote to al gore, and a lot of people had to come to learn about the electoral college, and some people do not like the electoral college. some people want a straight up

and down popular vote. i do not agree with that. larger states will have too much of a say in the process, and others will not have a say. delegates for going later, winner take all if you go later, or a state that continually elects republicans. that is power to the states, and gives power to people to organize, and power to the grassroots. there is merit on both sides. i would say, i would not want larger states to be controlling everything. mark: thank you very much, we will be right back. ♪

♪ >> what you doing tonight? mark: going to see the big dog

walk, and going to see tim robbins. much,as always, we have much, much more reporting online, all the latest on the in thegoing on in 2016, presidential race. coming up on "bloomberg west," emily chang. paul manifold will be here tomorrow. until then, sayonara. ♪

>> i am mark crumpton, you are watching "bloomberg west." force set up by rahm emanuel to investigate a police shooting has released its funding. the report accuses police of having "no regard to the sanctity of life, when it comes to people of color, and alienate minorities for decades, using excessive force and honoring a

code of silence." haslgian police force unseen footage of salam a bdelsam. he is seen walking through a market in a neighborhood of brussels. families of the victims of the german plane crash are suing the flight school. he crashed the plane in the french alps, killing all 150 people on board. he was treated for depression before taking flying lessons. tax officials from around the world met in paris today to discuss the following from the math-leakage of financial data papers. panama they expose how the wealthy used shell companies to tax