mark: "with all due respect" to bill o'reilly, this is azone -- pin zone.in -- a no-s not quiternoon and tgi- tax day yet. we are just outside syracuse. a little while ago, we interviewed senator ted cruz. i will show you that conversation a little later in the program, but first, bernie sanders' hail mary. he took a redeye flight last night after debating hillary clinton and went to rome, italy, where he delivered a 15-minute

speech on a "moral economy." imitated a speech by pope francis, but after trek, sanders-way will leave vatican city tomorrow without any expectation he will meet with the pope. you and i have both been confused about why it made sense for bernie sanders to leave new york and go to rome with the primary approaching. now that the trip is basically in the can, was it worth it? after today, having viewed all of his activities and seen the coverage, it still does not extends. he got some decent play. he was on cable during the day. -- it still does not make sense. he was able to go to a different place and make the argument to

world leaders rather than here on the stump, but given where he beens, it would have better for him to find a place called rome, new york. atk: they have not been good the stagecraft of politics, in part because the candidate it, but i think what they said was true -- bernie sanders wanted to go. he thought it was an honor to be included. he justifies it by mentioning hillary clinton goes to california to fund raise for 40 hours. he left. he got some coverage, but, man, it makes no more sense to me than it did before. i predicted it would be canceled . it might as well have been. john: i knew you would ask this question -- why do i not criticize hillary clinton for

going to california for a fundraiser. i do not ink there is anything wrong -- i do not think there is anything wrong with it, but it's the political context. in her case, she can afford to leave a state where she is ahead by double digits, and she is ahead. mark: if he does not win, he loses. john: he has to catch up. this is not a place he can afford to lose and lose potentially badly. mark: the guy has incredible stamina, but i cannot believe he is going to come back fresh as a daisy. he also took his family with him. to your fact about this being a personal thing, i think it really was just a meaningful thing for him. mark: you know what it was? a roman holiday. john: easily the most caustic democratic debate in the cycle. both candidates left the debate .ruised but un-bloodied

the raucous crowd was more loudly pro-sanders, but the vermont senator ale to capitalize on hillary clinton's answers -- the vermont senator failed to capitalize on hillary clinton's answers. clinton: there are certain expectations when you run for president. this is a new win, and i said if everybody agrees to do it -- because there are speeches for money on the other side, i know that. sanders: do you regret your advocacy for the bill? haston: my husband apologized. he was the president who actually signed it -- sanders: but it about you, senator? clinton: i'm sorry for the consequences that were unintended and that had a very unfortunate impact on people's lives. sanders: are you prepared to

lift the cap on taxable income -- yes or no? would you lift the cap? clinton: i have said repeatedly i am going to make the wealthy pay into social security to extend the social security trust fund. that is one way. if that is the way that we pursue, i will follow that. sanders: interesting comment, but you did not answer the question. clinton: i did answer it. [indiscernible] john: my question for you -- either in the democratic race, or more broadly -- did the debate last night change anything, and if so, what? mark: it eliminated bernie sanders. two, it gave, i think, the clinton people confidence that

he has no tricks up his sleeve. if he had any tricks up his sleeve he was going to play, he would have done it. three, he gave republicans a lot of confidence that hillary clinton, faced with tough questions, gives ebay's is invasive --ives answers.sive donald trump and ted cruz will take advantage of what critics will call clintonian moments. john: i think it basically guaranteed we will not have any more democratic debates. there has been discussion of that going down after last night. i do not think anybody after last night will want to see that again. the second thing is it is clear -- there is an open debate about how easy it is to get this party back together. last night made it harder -- not impossible by any means, but it makes it harder. bernie sanders, though he was not great last night, the things

he is doing and saying are taking a toll on her. favorabilityo 66% among democrats. six or nine months ago, she had of democrats.90% that is a problem for her going forward. >> people have doubts about her trustworthiness, if she is a straightforward person. she has a debate like that, a republican steps in and gives azinger, creates a moment, it could be a big thing in the election. here is another example of bernie campaign pulling punches. two tv ads, one for new york, focusing on wall street contributions. another is running in california about sanders' live -- ability to raise donations. neither spot mentions anyone by name.

both are pretty clearly aimed, though, at hillary clinton. the sanders campaign finally puts on ads some describe as tough, but why is he still holding back? if he is going negative, why not go negative and name her gekko her? name john: the people around him would happily like to attack clinton by name, but he has drawn a line and said it's time to characterize, but he will not in these ads. i think it is a distinction without a difference that gains in nothing politically -- gains him nothing politically, but that is a line he wants to stick to. him ifhey should tell that's the way he wants it, they should give the money to charity. they are giving it to television stations to no effect. john: there are a million things

you can do, but if you are going to do a negative ad that is not saying her name but basically saying her, you are not getting anything. we know candidates that do this. most of us cannot see why it is meaningful, but they decide it is and will not. -- will not budge. mark: bernie sanders probably will not be the candidate. his ability to oversee an ad campaign -- with the exception of positive ads -- his ability to debate, you just cannot beat a clinton being an underdog pulling your punches. john: the ads are not going as far as they could go for maximum if act. we have a quick correction. on the show yesterday, we talked about controversy surrounding bernie sanders' surrogate. i made a comment saying that susan sarandon said she would

rather vote for donald trump than hillary clinton. that was not correct. what she actually said was she was not sure she could vote for clinton and that donald trump might be more likely to usher in a revolution. she later tweeted a clarification that she would never vote for trump. mea culpa. that is on me. coming up, donald trump like you have never read him before after this. ♪\

most of the political

world was focused on the democratic debate last night. "the wall street journal" made a splash by posting a traditional op-ed piece by donald j trump billionaire, trying to convince voters that the gop elite came in ahead of american families. "have we gotten to the point where politicians defend a rigged election process with more passion than they have ever defended america's borders?" the republican party's national chairman -- or national committee, rather, released a memo defending the freedom of states like their own delegate processes, and the party chairman offered this rebuttal to trump in an interview with nbc today. previous: over 60,000 people a month ago in colorado voted at their precinct level, then went thene county level,

congressional district level. all the while, all the candidates competed with surrogates in the system without complaining, by the way. i think it's a little too late thatmplain after the fact a particular state process is not something that you like. mark: we know why donald trump is driving this line of rhetoric about the system being unfair. what is the rnc get out of having this white -- this fight? end, if this convention ends of producing a nominee who is not donald trump or who comes in not only without a majority, the integrity of the system will be crucial to the long-term political task ahead for the republican party. in the same way trump is laying down a predicate by attacking ebus is layingi

down a predicate by defending it. mark: i think they want to throw history out because it is a matter of tract is, not law or policy, that the rnc and dnc give up and hand over the reins to the de facto nominee -- it is a matter of practice. stay.s wants to if trump fires them, they want to prove that they are tough guys and gals and can either back and say, "our system is great. leave our system alone." john: evil are at various levels but if you want to do what you are suggesting, which i think is probably right, you do not to become the spokesman for the never trump cause, but you have to convince them that you are a significant

player and that you will defend the system by which they will they are going to win, that is the system by which they will win. nominee isikeliest basically saying the party whose nominee i want to be has rules that are corrupt. the rnc has to defend their brand. a lot of weird stuff this year. the most interesting thing about the "wall street journal" op-ed was how little it resembled in style and substance the form we are familiar with when it comes to trump, his patented now iconic twitter outbursts. nicknames,insulting exclamatory points, we were treated to the kind of thing any presidential candidate would publish under his name.

replete with sentences like the following -- mark, who is this rather conventional prose stylist, and what has he done with the donald? more importantly, what is the meaning of this more polished donald trump? as far as offense go, this one was pretty good. it had some interesting writing in it -- as op-eds go. that he canition make powerful arguments in a different format on a platform which is quite prestigious, and i believe donald trump to become president must win over the business community. hillary clinton has the

potential to be the candidate of a lot up big business, some small business. andp wants to reach out basically argue stylistically, "i can be an adult and make a persuasive point that does not end with the word sad, exclamation point." john: you think about the megan kelly tete-a-tete, and then think about "the wall street journal" opening up its pages to allow him in, suggests something -landiag on in murdoch thinking they do not want to be at war with the potential republican nominee. mark: it would not be unusual

for news corp. to make the following judgment -- trump is probably going to be the nominee. he could under some fluke get elected. why not in the short term do some nice stuff? john: that is the kind of thing rupert murdoch were done and -- would do and has done for years. we will be right back. ♪

today, we follow ted cruz up to cicero, new york, not that far from-- not that syracuse. we talked a little politics, starting out with his discussion of his empire state strategy.

cruz: new york is donald's home state. if he does anything other than win with substantially more than 50%, i think it will be perceived as a real loss. we are trying to earn as many delegates as we can and competing on the ground and getting some support. national.mpaign is we have had an amazing last three weeks, winning 11 elections in a row in numeral or different states, and that momentum is continuing 4 different- in states. we welcome every delegate can earn, but when donald came to the state of texas, we walloped him in my home state. any serious candidate ought to be able to win their home state.

the person you can trust to defend the bill of rights and also the person you can trust to standing up to radical islamic terrorists and to defend our allies like israel. donald trump and his supporters are going to be disappointed. he will have had the most delegates. what would you need or expect from him to help unify the party if you get your way, coming in with the second-most, leave as the nominee? cruz: it is getting more and more likely with each passing day we are headed to a contested convention. i will come in with a ton of delegates, donald with a ton of delegates -- john: but with more. cruz: we will see what the

voters decide on that. regardless, what that means is that in cleveland, it will be a battle to see who can earn a majority of delegates who were elected by the people. in that context, we will have the significant advantage of being able to assemble and really unite the republican party, and that is my focus right now. if we are divided and fighting amongst ourselves, we cannot win, so our focus -- and it's why i'm so encouraged that we are winning election after election -- we are seeing that role range of republicans -- john: at that point, donald trump would be disappointed. he has sort of sense signals that he would at that point say the system is rigged against him. and hundreds of thousands of millions of people around the country who voted for him or support him -- how do you bring donald trump and his supporters at that point? cruz: i'm not going to predict how donald will react. the test is the same as it has

been since 1860. the only way to win a nomination is to win a majority of delegates elected by the people. whoever the nominee is, that's what they will have to do. if it ends up, as i think probably will happen, a convention, it will be important to keep trump supporters engaged. if you look at those supporters, the heart of his campaign demographically has been blue collar workers, the reagan democrats, and the only candidate who has competed effectively with him for those voters has been me. in some states, he has won those voters and others, i have one those voters. we tend to be back and forth. the issues that excite those voters -- illegal immigration, keeping the country safe, to americabs back from china and mexico -- those

issues are right at the heart of our campaign. i believe if i earn a majority of delegates in cleveland that we will be able to continue to energize and unite those trump supporters. john: you think you can reach his supporters and energize them without necessarily his full support for you? cruz: i certainly hope so. contestedo doubt in a convention that is something you naturally worry about, having divisions in the party. we will have to work hard at continuing to unite the party. one sign that is encouraging -- look at the 17 republicans who .tarted this race five are endorsing my campaign now. that really is indicative of the republican party uniting, and each of those was fighting vigorously against me. part of the reason we were able to unite the party was in the

course of those battles, our campaign never got personal, never got nasty, never attacked them directly. , butd policy disagreements it makes it easier to unite when you do that. i hope the same will be true with donald supporters if then when we win the nomination -- if and when we win the nomination. we will be right back with more of our interview with ted cruz right after this word from our sponsors. ♪

john: we are back with part two of our interview with ted cruz

in cicero, new york, right outside of syracuse. it has gotten nasty between you two. tedld calls you lyin' almost every day. he tweeted that picture of your wife. is this all just political theater? if somebody treated me like that, i would never be runs -- friends with them. i would be offended the rest of my life. can this be fixed? my side, i try not to take it personally. there's the old adage of the frog and the scorpion, and the frog getting the scorpion across the river and the scorpion stings him. -- sinking,stinking the frog asks him why, in the scorpion says, "because it's my

nature." donald lashes out. loses.cared when he that's when he gets particularly nasty. we are all human beings. we have natural human emotions. the focus at the end of the day is solving the problems in this country. my focus is jobs and economic growth, and i think that's the focus of the people in new york. again?ould you be allies again, i would not read friends -- i would not be friends with someone who treated my wife like that. john.lyin' beo think families should off-limits. i am grateful he said that was a mistake. this should not be

personal. it's not about him or me. it's about who has real solutions. millions of americans are hurting. wages have stagnated over a decade. i'm focused on bringing manufacturing jobs that to new york, seeing wages rise, seeing young people coming out of school with job offers. what i focus on every day is lifting the burden of washington on small businesses, passing a simple flat tax, pulling back regulators that are killing small businesses, stopping amnesty and ending sanctuary cities. those are the solutions we need. john: are your taxes done? have you signed them yet? cruz: i am sending in an extension, which i confess we do every year. john: you do not talk about your tax plan in a way i find -- i asked voters what you stand for and i do not hear many people

talk about it. simple flat tax. first $30,000 you earn, you pay nothing, zero. each $36,000, for additional dollar you earn, everyone pays the same, simple, flat 10% tax. no longer does the gazillion aire pay a lower effective tax rate than the secretary. taxes.ish the obamacare we abolish the payroll taxes. we abolish the death tax, which is cruel and unfair to farmers and ranchers and small businesses. we replace those with a 16% business flat tax that is fair and uniform. tax, this simple flat every american will fill out taxes on a postcard -- you can get on our website.

you can fill out your taxes on a smart phone. .nd we abolish the irs people are thinking about the burdens of washington, and especially with the obama irs, which has been politicized. it's corrupt. it has targeted citizens based on their first amendment rights. it is time to end the corrupt agency that is the irs, and my simple flat tax will produce 4.9 million new jobs and raise wages for americans across the country. the average family over 10 years will have an additional $7,600 in take-home pay. that's real money for people who are struggling. lots of people according to your calculations will pay less. would any business or individual pay more? cruz: i have not done the projections for every individual is theica, but 14%

lowest increase, and that was when we were designing it. i worked very closely with the chief economic adviser to ronald reagan, and that was one of the things i was looking for in designing it. it had to help everyone and produce growth. the key to every problem we have -- unemployment, deficit, preserving social security and medicare, rebuilding the military -- it has to be growth. this tax plan is designed to turbocharge growth so small businesses take off and so manufacturing jobs come back to america from china, mexico, and back to the state of new york. john: any idea how much your family would pay under the plan? cruz: i have not run those numbers. john: i believe it is true that you are a country music fan. cruz: more country than rock 'n roll? bruceyou like

springsteen? cruz: i enjoy bruce springsteen. john: bruce springsteen announced the other day they would not play in north carolina because of the bathroom law. when you hear of an artist doing something like that, did you think that's legitimate or disrespectful? cruz: cruz and everyone else has a free-speech right. i do think an awful lot of hollywood and entertainment latches on to whatever is politically correct and popular at the given moment. i am a constitutionalist, and states have rights to pass laws consistent with the values of their citizens, and it may well be the citizens of north carolina will make every judgment than the citizens of new york and that's how our constitution operates. john: you do not feel sympathy or discussed? -- sympathy or disgust? cruz: he is entitled to be a liberal, and most rock 'n roll

or's, most of hollywood, they are liberals. that is their culture, frankly, it's the easy thing. everyone in the entertainment field -- it's the chic, hip thing to do. you do not often see rock 'n roll is or movie stars address the fact at income inequality has grown under the obama economy. the rich have gotten richer, and those who are struggling have gotten worse off. you do not often see entertainment address the fact that we have abandoned israel and that radical islamic terrorism is growing like crazy and this president and hillary clinton, for that matter, do not acknowledge it. john: my spidey sense says we are about to make news. about toe that you are start vetting potential running mates or have already started? cruz: we are less than 100 days away from the convention. you have to do that. we are in the process of

assessing. it really is a nice situation on the republican side because there are an abundance of choices. john: you have to vet them. i write you are about to start the process? be a vicee will not presidential nominee until we win the nomination, so our rochus is burning the vote from the people to earn delegates to go to cleveland. is going to go on a fast, accelerated timeframe. john: our thanks to senator ted cruz. after our talk, we got the chance to cruise with cruz. -- -- who's ball, is. is -- foosball, that next, we get into the nitty-gritty of new york

politics with a couple of folks from the syracuse area. ♪

up twoe have pulled chairs to talk to two chairs from upstate new york. joining us is the chair of .onald trump's team and the cochair of hillary clinton's team.

donald trump is going to win the state, right tackle we understand donald trump is a new york city phenomenon. >> he was considering running for governor a couple of years back and i was part of a small group trying to recruit him to do that. upstate has struggled for loss,s with job population loss, high taxes, and that is a message that is gravitating and getting donald trump a lot of support. upn: hillary clinton came here when she ran for senate and this was part of how she won the first time. has she had to reintroduce herself to this part of the world, having been not a new york politician for a decade? >> no, i don't think so.

she was here, had a great day, lots of positive feedback. people were anxious and hopeful that she had the opportunity to come back. we knew her as a senator, and she started her listening tour here, and that was the exposure we all started with her. she was a very hands-on senator, a workhorse, not a show horse. john: you to talk amongst yourselves on this topic. we have had years now of all editions in both parties trying to revitalize the economy. what is left to be tried that has not been tried? we have gone into a global marketplace. you have to compete not just against the south and west but china and mexico. the way you do that is having high skilled engineers, people that can problem solve, and too many politicians have been thinking about doing it with quick one-shot answers.

you need to have a more sustainable approach to economic development. i think that is one reason donald trump has caught wildfire. he employs a lot of people, and jobs and taxes are big issues here in upstate new york. mark: do you know any republicans who will support hillary clinton? any democrats who will support donald trump? i know a lot of republicans who will support hillary clinton. i have talked to them. a rank-and-file union withn is just frustrated what is going on. one of the reasons trump is doing so well is because for decades, we have been sending the same people to washington, and nothing is getting done. when they see donald trump

coming to town or see the organization he has built, they know he can get results, and that's what they expect to happen when he goes to washington, d.c. know lots of people supporting donald trump, and their primary healing is in motion -- is frustration -- there primary feeling is frustration. when you try to ask about the solution, they do not want to hear that. they just say they want someone who goes in and just blows it all up. people are frustrated, and i think that's one of the reasons you are seeing bernie sanders do so well in hillary clinton's adoptive state. election --general let's assume donald trump and hillary clinton are the nominees . presumably, new york will be -- two new yorkers competing for the state. make the argument for why this part of the world should favor donald trump over hillary clinton.

dadey: donald trump was born and raised in new york. he will do very well in new york city. he does not need to win new york city. he is going to do well on long island and the suburbs. he will have a lot of support in upstate new york has there's been a lot of issues over the last couple of years -- there's a reason why there is a lot of voter frustration. he is going to make it a very competitive race. he's going to put new york in play. john: why is he wrong? one word -- substance. when you start voting for president of the united states, that's a very personal vote. people want to have someone who is steady, knows substance, has already talked about and implemented policies. has a veryld trump successful record of building a company and creating jobs. that's what we need, and that's why he will do so well in upstate new york. both proud that

two of the leading candidates are new yorkers? to be i am proud supporting hillary clinton -- dadey: wasn't hillary from arkansas original? minor: seeing the things that donald trump has said, the way he has that it has not made me feel proud at all. dadey: very happy that he is. john: do you have pride in hillary clinton? dadey: she is not a new yorker. john: great to meet you both and great to have you on. when we come back, we will give you the blow-by-blow of what happened last night at the brouhaha in brooklyn. ♪

mark: we looked to draw comparisons between politics and pugilism, so that's why we like to say candidates sparred or suffered a beat down in a debate. with everyone calling last night's prizefight the brooklyn brawl, we thought we would send to see to a boxing gym the latest debate through their eyes. >> i think they are evenly matched. , "younie kept coming back did not answer the question." >> i thought bernie took it by a little bit. >> it was sort of a brooklyn brawl. >> bareknuckle brawl.

>> you saw hillary, and he would try to come through, and then bam again.am, just don't let her dominate you. don't let her jump all over your words when you are trying to respond. that is what she is doing. then he comes back with a qualified response. >> i'm sure a lot of people are very surprised to learn that you supported raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour. centers: secretary clinton was busy giving speeches to goldman sachs for $225,000. clinton: senator sanders did

call me unqualified. >> you hit me, i hit you back. a lot of raised voices, a lot of yelling. that's how it is in boxing. who's going to get the right hit in before the round is over? >> one of those dirty fights. it was not as friendly as in the past. clinton: this is one of those phony attacks designed to raise questions when there's no evidence or support. >> trying to make points, but not really doing any damage. maybe the next one, they might floatther muhammad ali like a butterfly, sting like a bee. john: we will be right back with some late-night comedy stylings after this. ♪

-- we talkedtrump about him earlier in the show with his "wall street journal" op-ed, and his remaining opponents taking a much goofier route, appearing on late-night tv. john kasey kahne the great seth myers, ted cruz on "the tonight show" starring the great jimmy fallon -- john kasich on the great seth myers. cruz: i'm watching the princess bride for the 843rd time. >> inconceivable. kasich: i am a blue-collar guy. i am a guy that gets frustrated

in life. john: both those guys have done late-night for, but how do you think their comedy chops are developing? expects johne kasich to do good on this. he is a goofy guy. ted cruz did pretty well last night. are bothhink they really funny privately and both not nervous on the shows. that's the key. you've got to be game to do it. they were both pretty game. the cruz thing where jimmy fallon played trump was great. on monday, we will show our foosball face-off with ted cruz.

mark: --john: that's enough from you. coming up, emily chang sits down with arianna huffington. we will be back monday with more match with ted cruz. mark is so excited he decided to skip ahead and tease it before i had a time -- before i had a chance to tease it. we came up with a lot of good nicknames for ted cruz. trump-ian i would say. mark: thanks for watching. john: thanks for watching. time to say sayanara. ♪

mark: you are watching "bloomberg west." for the second time in as many days, southern japan has been hit i a powerful earthquake.

7.2 quake struck the same region is the same one which struck friday and killed 10 people. no word if the latest quake increased the death toll. secretary kerry called the russian foreign secretary and officially objected to russian planes fighting -- flying close to a navy destroyer, calling the move unsafe and unprofessional, but a military spokesman says the pilots were using all measures of precaution. a group of 20 nations are threatening to penalize tax havens that do not share .nformation on their clients boston is marking the third anniversary of the deadly 2013 marathon bombings. the governor and mayer joined families and victims' for a wreath laying ceremony on boylston street