>> the eyes of the political world are on new york's week in advance of tuesday's delegate rich timers. donald trump and hillary clinton currently hold double-digit leads in contests that could give us information on how this long should and. glenn thrush of political and host of the off message podcast. alex burns of the new york

times. out-swinger is a nbc analyst and guest correspondent on the circus. what better place to have a circus then new york? you have cut your teeth as a reporter here. on the democratic side, it is . strangely, less primary trump has not been here that much. bernie sanders has been drawing big crowds. he does not seem to be closing the gap. the issue is watching the sanders campaign collide with the tabloid press has been the big show. hillary knows how to handle herself with this stuff. shes around in 2001 when learned how to master the tabloid folks. it takes some doing.

watching bernie sanders who has been touting his bona fides as a brooklyn guy who knows the city. -- press hasn't really >> do you get the sense that she feels like now you are on my part? >> i don't think these are great times for the clinton campaign at the moment. it is a suspended animation moment. having worked with you in 2008 when you would call us relentlessly and remind us what the delegate counts were as hillary was winning primary after primary, west virginia and kentucky, she had the numbers on her side. he is drawing the big crowds. he is garnering excitement. he has this illusion of momentum even though he is down by 12 to 14 points depending on the polls. there is a sense of annoyance and anxiety.

she wants to close it out. the illusion of momentum and the map of the delegates. how big is new york for bernie sanders? >> is huge. the illusion of momentum is going to be enormously important over the remaining six weeks of the campaign because the delegate count is so daunting. if he does not have this sense that he is a locomotive ticking up steam, then why are you in this race anyway? you need to pick up delegates by a staggering margin going for. if he were to pick up this thing by low single digits and her -- the voters might not -- there's a case to be made against the front runner. in the lastdo well stretch of the campaign.

honorable insight -- >> you have controlled the progressive precincts. hadis it bernie sanders made so little inroads into minority communities? >> in the middle of the country, you talk to minority countries and they understand the clintons. it is important that hillary clinton served barack obama as his secretary of state. they have not forgotten her allegiance with him. she has thereof him throughout hugged himar throughout this campaign season. i have asked is it personally frustrating that the message does not seem to be resonating with minority voters? was thinning and she

said yes it does. sanders sees himself as the steward of a set of economic policies that would especially help minority americans. they are not hearing it. right to point out new york as a petri dish for many aspects of this campaign. one of the worst pieces of breast bernie sanders has gotten in the last month is the interview he did with the new york daily news. that is a paper read by a lot of lower income, minority new yorkers. it endorsed hillary clinton and called bernie sanders fantasist. that is not good for bernie sanders. argument, that economic inequality, they don't talk about income inequality. his answers during the debate where he talked about -- hillary thetalking about 450 years,

legacy of an quality and prejudice, and talking about issues having to do specifically with race based prejudice. he was talking about antiseptic issues of inequality. that is the tone african-american voters are turned off by. the message about what things would look like if things were better and a generation ago when kinds were better -- that of nostalgia for new deal liberalism may resonate with voters in the midwest -- white voters in the midwest. things were not that great for black americans in the 1950's. there is also a strong identification with this president who is symbolic with progress in a very big way. bernie sanders is -- has not

always been on board with the president. >> and central to his message, things have gotten so bad. the president of the united states is a democrat and an african-american democrats and for black voters, that distinction is not lost on them. >> it seems he has tuned up his rhetoric in many ways. a lot focuses on the record as it relates to racial progress during the clinton years. the crime bill, which he voted for -- but also the welfare reform bill. tothat an effective tactic attack the bill clinton record, as it were? >> i think the crime bill matters with younger black voters. you saw clinton was pulled into a shouting match with black lives matter.

they think about the crime bill and see it as a root cause, or the foundational reason we have . mass incarceration state in that way, it bernie sanders is trying to wring more minority voters in, you made the point that a lot of younger minority voters are not as engaged. the criticism of the crime bill is a wife -- is a wise move at this point. >> what about the outburst of president clinton? i saw him in 2012, probably the most effective surrogate that barack obama had and he has been a great surrogate on behalf of many candidates. only one candidate he is not a good surrogate for, why is that? >> my client did a few days on that dynamic a few days ago and i saw it in iowa.

he would carry around little barts of paper showing charts of growth during the clinton administration. i am thinking, what -- which clinton is running for president ? and i think that has accentuated itself over the past week. with charlieory wrangle saying, how -- why is he talking so much about himself? that is an occupational hazard with bill clinton. think in some ways, if you think back to the reaction to bill clinton's outburst this year versus 2008, it is almost priced in now that this guy will wander off the reservation or say things that he should not say. his confrontation with the black the black lives matter protester is so much worse than the

biggest fairytale i have ever seen thing. >> i think you're right that it is priced into a certain degree. but he has been more disciplined. >> on this issue of sanders reaching into the black community, he reached out for a adh-level aide to produce an for him in the closing days of the new york are married to try and reach the african-american votes. i want you to take a look at that. >> people of color have a deeply vested interest in what bernie sanders brings to us in this election. >> people like michael brown, sandra bland, and my father ever carter. >> visit -- these are not just hashtags, but sons and daughters. >> bernie sees all of you and

all of me. that's why on voting for bernie sanders. have a major impact on this race? >> i think hillary has been going around this country with the so-called mothers of the movement, whose children have been felled by gun violence. not sure at this stage of the game and it makes a great deal of difference. is,uestion for this season does the high-profile nontraditional endorsement matter. the fact that hillary clinton has lena dunham and amy schumer on her side. i feel like there is a long line in the sand. i have this allegiance. it doesn't really matter which

cultural spokespeople come out. 2008was joking about the campaign, but the quality of the opposition matters and the sanders folks have been slow on this. the night that he did his pivot to new york, he did it from wyoming. --has one thing and majority most of his largest victories are in white areas, and today he said something that might come back to haunt him about hillary clinton cleaning up in the southern primaries. i don't think that will go away. also striking how he has chosen to contest new york state. obviously you need to do suburbsg, but there are

that look a lot more like the places he has typically been winning. ted cruz and john kasich have been coming to new york city to try to take the fight to donald trump. ofders is spending millions dollars on new york city television. one of the realities is that he has millions of dollars to spend which has kept them in this race. one of the things that has not been noted is the advantage in spending he has, but this is a very difficult market. stronger.be running >> he should be blowing it out. if you look at the map in michigan -- michigan, every rural area in the state, he was winning massively.

>> and he's got areas that were really adversely affected by the economy. point, to a certain extent, this is where the math does matter. he cannot do that without superdelegates and he is at an extremely huge disadvantage. , it is more extent important for bernie sanders to close the gap. part of the reason his putting his resources downstate is to make the argument he is not a whites only candidate. >> i think they have run a remarkable campaign. thaty would've predicted bernie sanders would be where he is, but time is where he -- time is getting short. about opening the gap, it seems to me you start talking about winning the gap -- if he comes here with the participation ribbon --

>> they do give those in brooklyn. sanders --is, bernie new york state is a closed primary. unless you are an organized, registered. crack, you are not voting in this prep -- registered democrat, you are not voting in this primary. there is a real question. how many of those folks will actually be able to vote in the primary. what are the actual vote numbers? >> just as hillary clinton is accustomed to the new york tabloid culture and what that entails, you would have to civet donald trump has been a part of that for his whole adult life. is he at an advantage? >> i think it's interesting that

you say he has an adult li. [laughter] the dude was in "bonfire of the vanities." it has given him the luxury to not be here, to some extent. what are the latest numbers on john kasich? has he cracked 20%? 50%p will hit that threshold and he has some done -- has done some events here. at it has given' him the advantage of not actually being here. you imagine donald trump holding a rally over grand army pal -- plaza or something? >> he had one in downtown chicago that did not go well. >> in that vein, a lot of us

would've expected massive protests for donald trump this week and from the media perspective that is a shame.

david: we've talked about the math on the democratic side and the fact that bernie sanders appears to have momentum and is behind and that is a source of frustration to his supporters. sort of the opposite situation on the republican side, where donald trump is ahead, and he

appears poised to have a pretty big victory here and in some of the states coming up the following week in the northeast, and yet all the speculation is that he may not make it. so that has given rise to this whole mantra of his that the system is being rigged. run down the math of this for us. glenn: if trump were to really run the table in new york, somehow you are within 400 of that magic total. on the last day of voting in new jersey, you have over 400 delegates in the total. in between, you have this lineup of states all throughout may, starting with indiana, running through south dakota, montana. these are ted cruz kind of states. you have a pretty predictable

coming and going of the tide in the republican race. what may matter more than exactly how close to 1237 trump gets is whether his general election numbers continue to deteriorate in the way they have. the party is going to need to be able to make some kind of moral case for why they are not just ripping the blue ribbon out of the rightful winner's hand. david: when you were out there, alex, for the circus, did you get a chance to talk to some of the trump voters? alex w.: i was not in the trump room. living in new york city and being someone with a parent new york values, i agree with glenn. this is sort of a tailor-made place for donald trump. but the biggest problem we are seeing, alex, is infrastructure. the long game has never been donald trump's strong suit. i don't know that anybody could have predicted that it would

look like we would have a contested convention. what you have seen is donald trump scrambling to bring in veterans, scott walker's campaign chair, people that know how this process works. david: ford's men at the 1976 convention. alex w.: cruz has been very involved in the delegate selection process. if trump gets 1235, there is i think a likelihood that senator cruz will be the nominee. david: it seems to me that either donald trump is going to be the nominee on the first ballot, or ted cruz is likely to be the nominee on some subsequent ballots, but it is almost impossible to see him being the nominee on the first ballot and it is hard to see trump going beyond that. if trump gets close, there is

this group of unbound delegates out there, a few hundred of them. can they get enough of them to get over the line? i assume that is what matt forte is concentrating on. alex b.: i think they can. that is a moment where the whole republican leadership has to imagine cleveland in flames and ask, how bad do we want to deny him this nomination just so we can nominate ted cruz? if it were between front and a guy they felt really good about, it might be different. under those circumstances, when trump is flying them down to visit golf courses and giving them free hotel rooms -- alex w.: you can actually give cash to delegates. alex b.: air trump is actually a pretty old plane, but plenty of gold in it.

under those circumstances, it gets tough to see the party stealing itself for the massive rift that would come out of that nomination. david: alex raises a really interesting point. there probably isn't a more hated person among establishment republicans than ted cruz. ted cruz has made a point of going after them. until a few weeks ago, he talked about the washington cartel. now they are on his team. so how ironic is that? what do you hear when you talk to republicans privately? i guess they are pretty public -- glenn: this is one of the great spectacles. i remember a story about a year ago about ted cruz where some republicans said the only thing less popular on capitol hill than ted cruz is a cash bar. lindsey graham, who had just

uncorked on cruz, just holding his nose, what did he say, it was the difference between getting shot and taking poison. david: he meant that in a nice way. glenn: but the notion that ted cruz, one of the wonderful cosmic ironies, the notion that ted cruz would be the presentable mainstream candidate -- by the way, ted cruz has arguably run the best campaign of anybody this year. david: it isn't just that he has scoped out this delegate process better. he, from the beginning, was the most strategic. he understood that if he could command evangelicals in iowa, he could win the first contest. he had a plan from start to finish. he knew all the rules of every state. alex b.: his top guy is probably, for those that cover

the inside game, considered one of the real rising stars in this constellation. i was talking to a cruz person the other day about the evangelical vote. they said, look at his liberty speech. it is largely remembered as this jerry falwell thing. they said, the entire second half of the speech was about economics, blue-collar economics and trade. they feel now that they are no longer being challenged from the right by any candidate, that they can move toward the economic stuff. the cruz campaign is in a comfortable situation in states like indiana. alex b.: in retrospect, the amazing strategic innovation of the ted cruz campaign is that the most conservative candidate will probably win the republican primary. when you think back on rubio, jeb, it seems obvious looking back that of course you were not going to outflank ted cruz with this electorate.

the only man who might is a guy who totally defies ideological labels and is running as this third world strongman type of candidate. alex w.: i would bring up your questioning as to whether the establishment would opt for cruz. i hear from establishment republicans, moderate republicans, they would much rather see ted cruz lose in november, because the implications for the party would be much clearer than if it was donald trump at the top of the ticket. david: you have heard conservative republicans say for several cycles, if we just nominated a true conservative, not one of these center-right sort of moderates, john mccain, mitt romney, that we would win because we would mobilize all these voters who have been estranged from voting generally. so the notion of cruz gives them a pure test of that. the theory is that if donald

trump is the candidate, it won't be clear, and you will have all the factions blaming each other for the loss. if trump loses, and before we leave, i want to get to what that general election would look like. alex b.: that theory of the case totally makes sense on its own internal logic. i do think it presumes a level of self-awareness and honesty that may not entirely exist. you can totally imagine ted cruz gets shellacked in the fall and the narrative from the hard right is, if the bush family hadn't undercut him, if the establishment hadn't betrayed him, and so many republican donors hadn't channeled money to hillary clinton, we could have won this thing. david: what is this going to look like? hillary clinton absent ted cruz and donald trump would be the

least popular nominee of a major party since these polls have been taken. her unfavorables are in the low 50's, but there's are higher. what doesn't mean when you have candidates on both sides who have very high negatives? glenn: you've seen the movie "reservoir dogs." [laughter] imagine that has a 3-4 month campaign. it will be the most negative. trump's general disapproval is more than 65% regularly. there was a metric i had not seen of people -- would you ever vote for somebody? 63% said, no i would never vote for donald trump. these are astronomical numbers. these are before the democrats have run a single ad against him.

i think the name of the game on the clinton side is scorched earth. it's going to be ugly. david: there seems to be more coherence to democrats than republicans. alex b.: that is why i think you will see an interesting phenomenon against truck or cruise that is going to be a -- against trump or cruz that is going to be a parallel track, a campaign of reassurance and trying to give republicans and moderates who wouldn't vote for a democrat or hillary clinton, some kind of permission that makes it ok. just this one time it's ok to go against your gut instincts and go for hillary clinton. a lot of those people who said they would never vote for donald trump, they could just stay home or with the right set of

validators, reassurance, maybe some percentage of them can be persuaded in the interest of keeping things normal and not too crazy -- [laughter] go with the one that you don't like. david: what about if ted cruz is the candidate? glenn: looking from the clinton side everybody on her campaign would like it to be donald trump. donald trump generates -- he is the biggest garbage truck. the candidate herself -- david: if there was a rational

opponent to this. glenn: the candidate herself and her husband are apprehensive about facing this guy when you have characters like roger stone running around talking about bodies buried in shallow graves. alex w.: ted cruz does not get the crossover vote that donald trump does. the thing i would say about ted cruz is you will see a lot of attention on the part of paul ryan shoring up the house and senate. have characters like roger stone there is going to be concerned about the senate and making sure the house margin doesn't get to type. david: you've heard donald trump talk about the illegitimacy of the process. that he is being treated. this nomination is being stolen. how do his supporters not walk away after that, if they are a steady dose of that and what promises to be an acrimonious run-up to the convention? alex b.: many are most certainly would. a lot of republicans have made their peace with ted cruz

because he is a predictable candidate who they can communicate with. there is a scenario where nominating ted cruz is worse because the donald trump vote stays home and the moderate or center-right republicans and suburban voters who would have deserted donald trump also desert ted cruz. his floor may be lower. david: what did everyone miss about this? what did everyone miss about -- i was dismissive. i thought he would be gone by winter. most people felt the same way. what went wrong in terms of the evaluation of donald trump? alex b.: there still is this inside the bubble, outside the bubble dynamic and how he is perceived by supporters and people who do not buy into the

premise of trump. thinking back to where we were when he declared there was an assumption among people in new york and washington the rest of the country isn't in on the joke. everyone knows his real estate empire is and as he presents it. "the apprentice" is a game show. going around the country and talking to people who support donald trump talk about his business career the way people wall street might talk about warren buffett, michael bloomberg, they think he's one of the amazing entrepreneurs of our time. there was this assumption his campaign was absurd and it persisted so long, nobody decided to pointed out. david: some of the things that he got ridiculed for, the wall, the muslim ban, those resonated with a lot of people in this country. people have a real -- glenn: i've traveled around the country.

i have spent a lot of time in baton rouge. people have a sense of loss. people feel, particularly older white folks feel the country they bought into that they said the pledge of allegiance for doesn't exist to a certain extent and there are any number of factors that have to do with that. one of the things, the presidency -- every four years we perpetuate this allusion the that the presidency is the most powerful institution in the world and the president controls everything. there is a sense that the world becomes more difficult to control, as the threat of terrorism grows, people have a sense external forces are imposing on the country. the appeal of having someone who says not only will i be a strong president but the presidency

itself and the country itself will reclaim their role is enormously powerful. that is what we missed. that this guy is not just about asserting himself but saying the role of the presidency is going to be one that fits the historical situation. alex w.: you can't underestimate the role of the media landscape. donald trump a reality television star. reality tv and the way conflict is on center stage is an incredibly pervasive conceit in american culture. the culture has changed. donald trump has been serendipitously situated at the nexus. he understands how to deliver a message with authenticity. how to talk with people without using the mainstream media and how to stoke conflict. and offer a thin resolution to that conflict. mexico is going to pay for the

wall, etc. he knows he is not going to be checked on that. david: he is checked on it and it doesn't seem to matter. i get the sense that they feel the same people who are ridiculing donald trump and being disrespectful to donald trump are disdainful of them. glenn: on a basic obvious level the most amazing accomplishment is to have made himself this extraordinary wealthy man, this spirit animal of the white working class. i think you are right. when they see him saying this is national security plan, i will find the douglas macarthur and put him in charge. his supporters have seen the movie.

they've seen the history and they remember that as a better time. why are we laughing at it? david: alex mentions authenticity. you did a podcast with hillary clinton. this word hounds her. it doesn't appear to many people, sometimes, that she is connecting. it is like there is a screen there. what is that? alex b.: i don't know how good i was at that. i have known her on and off. when i covered her by the way in the senate, what a lot of people are missing, in 2008 she was in game shape from the first day. she had just won her senate reelection. she was dealing with us. she had a mode of operation that brought her around.

when you are giving all the speeches and retire to one of your two mansions, she got the benz coming down from the penthouse. the thing with her, what is authenticity? it is hard to define. it's what people think authenticity is. essentially your speeches are terrible. i saw you in iowa, it was like you were reading a list. if you go to a bernie sanders thing, you can write it on the back of a napkin. she said to me look, running for the presidency is a serious thing and i'm going to be as detailed as i want to be.

i'm dead set on running this kind of campaign. david: she know she is not that good at the performance art. she has said it. bill clinton, barack obama, they have that. i don't have it. policy is not just something she believes in, it is her sword and shield. glenn: the clintons are not necessarily known over the course of their career for telling the truth all the time. i opened the conversation with with, i am a terrible flier, and hillary clinton is an excellent flier. she told the story about being in arkansas and flying around in crop duster is in the door coming off of the plane. i got more e-mails from people asking me to check that anecdote out to see if it was true. that is incredibly telling. people would doubt something as innocuous as that. david: let's go around the table as we close this discussion and do what is always scary to do when you are sitting in a taped conversation. what is going to happen? who is the next president of the united states? alex b.: there would have to be

a confluence of events between now and the convention to nominate someone strong in the election. i think it is pretty much consensus. david: a he or a she? alex b.: nikki haley can still get in. alex w.: it's true. david: are you going to be bolder? alex w.: most people think hillary clinton is going to be the next president. there's been no time focused on what that administration might look like but that is most likely the outcome. glenn: i think it's going to be closer than people think. there is never an easy election for this woman. the more we talk about how this how disadvantaged the republicans are, the more i feel like this is going to see pennsylvania get tie in the end regardless of the candidate. to quote someone wiser than me,

he said to me he now thinks hillary clinton could beat donald trump from jail. david: on that cheerful note, glenn thrush, alex wagner, thank you for being here. ♪

charlie: lesley stahl is here. she has said, i was born on my 30th birthday. everything before then was prenatal. that was the day she was hired by cbs. since then she has won 11 in the awards. now she turns her gaze inwards on the experience of being a grandmother. her new book is "becoming grandma, the joys and science of the new grandparenting." her answers to the practical. this is a fun read about an important subject. as always, i'm glad to have her. lesley: you make me melt. charlie: i'm happy. let's get to the idea. you are experiencing something

when grandchildren are born. you are a hard-driving journalist. this morning, i said to you why are you doing this all the time? your appetite for the story has not diminished one bit. lesley: that's true. charlie: that love is there and has not been diminished. all of a sudden, you say i'm a grandma and it is really needs. lesley: how the book came about, you will love. the publisher said i want you to write about "60 minutes." you are at "60 minutes." i said are you crazy? going to talk about my colleagues? it i will tell the truth and they will fire me -- [laughter] or it will be the most boring book i've ever read. i'm not doing that. i began to talk about my

grandchildren. charlie: you said that to him at the time? lesley: i said, i'm not doing the book. we turned to having our lunch, schmoozing. i kept coming back to my grandchildren. he said that is your book. i thought about it, i would like to write about that. charlie: because what had been going on? lesley: i was so surprised at the depth of the emotion, at the jolting bonding with the babies. i never expected that. it came out of nowhere. charlie: different from having children? lesley: very. charlie: how so? lesley: it's undivided with a grandchild. there is no worrying. there's no saying, did i get them to the doctor on time? charlie: so what is it? lesley: it is love. unadulterated, pure, deep loving

in a way you've never done it before. charlie: you are not thinking about lesley, you are thinking about them. lesley: i'm not divided. my attention is completely focused. i am in real time. everything they do is brilliant. everything they do is wonderful. charlie: what do they call you? lesley: lolly. charlie: what is in this book? lesley: this idea that you are having a whole new kind of love. this idea of granny nannies. these are women who are taking care of their grandchildren, one day, two days, three days a week. the parents are both working. they need our help. childcare is desperately expensive. it can cost more than college. they need us and they way we do not need our parents.

charlie: other than filling your heart, what are the changes for you? lesley: it's been huge. my whole outlook on my future. my whole relationship with my daughter. we always had a great relationship. it was closer. even though i live across the country, we can talk about more things together. i am happier. i love being a grandmother. when i say that to people who know me at work, they are saying she has changed. charlie: because your reputation is tough, get the story. that is who you are. lesley: you know that is not real.

charlie: but that is how people see you. therefore when you see this book and you hear you, gushing, people say oh my god. this is really happening. it is genuine. lesley: it is really not who i am obviously. it is a little more revealing. is that what we are saying? lesley: it is mystical. i thought i was the only one. i wrote the book. i've been interviewing grandmothers and grandfathers. we are all in this together. we don't know that. charlie: i asked you this morning, is it different from

grandfathers? lesley: grandfathers get just besotted. i've seen grandfathers as attentive. it happens a little later. grandmothers are attached to the newborn in a biochemical way. there is a lot in there about the biochemistry of holding your grandchild. grandfathers seem to need more connection. the kids have to be a little older. once he is hooked, he can be even more attentive. charlie: this is from becoming grandma. you haven't broken down in tears. i thought i had become the of -- had become the epitomy of self-control. then my first grandchild was born, january 30, 2011. i was blindsided by love, more loving, more intense than anything i could remember or have ever imagined. this was big for you. lesley: but it is not unusual.

charlie: you have discovered from other grandmothers. lesley: from most grandmothers i interviewed. charlie: you found it, yes. lesley: i interviewed a grandmother in the bronx who lives in a fantastic house, built for grandmothers raising their grandchildren. she had already taking care of this little girl's older sister. she said i was not going to take another child, not in a million years. then she is in the room when the baby is born. the doctor put the baby in her arms. she describes what i am telling you. i held that baby and that was it. i was hooked like a fish. charlie: is there an idea that old is cool? lesley: a little bit. charlie: i certainly hope so. [laughter] lesley: i'm doing all i can to promote that. the baby boomers.

we are such a gigantic bulge. we are a little older than boomers, but we relate to them. everything they have touched they have changed. we are actually healthier, truly healthier. charlie: and live longer. that is the great thing. we lived longer. you will experience the grandbaby growing up. a positive influence that goes beyond. lesley: they actually truly need us. charlie: what do they need? lesley: in all of time, from going back to the cave men, grandmothers were raising children. it is in our species. it is the way it was meant to be. it's a natural course of things. then came the industrial revolution and we got the nuclear family. what is supposed to be got separated. when a grandmother has this

feeling, i think it is because it is what is meant to be and children need us because we in history going back, we nurtured them. we made sure they survived. that is why grandmothers, and most other animals, they die when they can no longer reproduce. why are grandmothers here? to take care of grandchildren. charlie: hillary clinton is the poster mother of grandparents. lesley: she is. charlie: she used to tell me when i would interview her, do you think she would rather have a grandchild than be president? her husband said that is a hard choice for her but sometimes i do. she wants it so badly. now their story is she is doting over her granddaughter. lesley: i saw her do an interview yesterday. she sounded like me. i said, my goodness, she could have written the book. she is going through what i am going through.

working women may be going through what i'm going through more intensely because -- charlie: with what impact? this is a wonderful feeling, i've discovered -- but you say it is the fourth stage of life. lesley: it is. you mentioned we are living longer. we are going to live 30 years longer after we retire, if we retire. [laughter] charlie: you and i are exhibit a. lesley: another 30 years. there is a new phase of life. one we haven't had before. i don't mean for me. i mean for everybody. i am suggesting in the book that the best way to spend it is helping your children raise grandchildren. charlie: in addition to telling 60 minutes, you will tell

stories to your grandchildren. you are a storyteller wherever you turn. lesley: i think that is wonderful. charlie: thank you for coming. i want you to come back and talk about your markable career in journalism. you were born at 30 at cbs. 1971, 1972. in 25 years at 60 minutes. i know stories about you. lesley: don't tell. charlie: i do want to talk about remarkable career. it's not hard to understand why you love it so much. why you pursue it with such vigor. lesley: you love it. you are at "60 minutes" now. you get it. you get what fun it is to do. it has that serious element, that -- there is an idealism we tell ourselves. charlie: i want to tell that story. go tell a story. thank you.

the book is called "becoming grandma." her name is way above the title. the subtitle is "the joy and the science of grandparenting." if every grandparent out there will buy this book, they will be rewarded. lesley: thank you. charlie: thank you for joining us. see you next time.