♪ announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: anderson cooper and gloria vanderbilt are here. they have a memoir that explores the relationship and the love and loss they have experienced. rainbow comes"the and goes." the collaboration is called frank and tender. there is a documentary on the same subject. here is a trailer from "nothing left unsaid." >> i remember a look behind her eyes that was far away.

it was very sad, to me, that the things she wanted were so simple. growing up, there was no reality for me, the vanderbilt side. my mom has lived many lives and inhabited different skins. she has a public face and the reality of her life is so different. >> it is fascinating. all of our secrets. i knew him for a week and we married three weeks later. >> how old were you? >> 20. >> did your friends think it was weird? >> people were fascinated with the family that had everything. i never felt like i belonged. i felt like i was an imposter.

when he died, i went to bed for three weeks and cried. i have not cried since. there is not a tear left. charlie: i am pleased to have anderson cooper and gloria vanderbilt here. welcome. but never together. together. anderson: i did not want people to know that she was my mom. gloria: i always wanted people to know you are my son. >> when i started in the business, vanderbilt has it a lot of baggage and it comes with assumptions about what her life

must be like, which is wrong and different from what it is. when i first started out, i was glad to have the last name of cooper. or, how you pronounce it. now, i feel like i am established and my mom called me up and said, the most amazing thing happened. somebody referred to me as "anderson cooper's mother." gloria: yes. mom. charlie: the title. where does that come from? >> a poem by wordsworth. i am fascinated by anderson's interpretation. goes," heow comes and thinks it goes and that's the end of it. anderson: my mom is an eternal optimist. she believes her next great love is around the corner. the rainbow may go. i believe that the rainbow may come back. how do you know you are going to

be there when it does? i prepare for the darkness that may last. i am like game of thrones. i always believe that winter is coming. it is bleak and i want to prepare for the long haul. charlie: whose idea was it? anderson: it started when my mom turned 91. birthday,she sent me an email and it was funny and sharp. it was interesting and they got me thinking about when my dad died and i would have a fantasy that there was a letter that might show up when i was 18 or 21 that would tell me everything about him that i did not know and about his life. it was also true that fantasy when she was young. i did not what a thing to be unsaid between us. we started this conversation over e-mail. it was easier and i travel so much. i wanted to change the conversation between us and get to know each other as adults in a new way.

it really has changed our relationship and my understanding of myself. it is something that i hope the book encourages others to do. charlie: what were the nature of the e-mails? gloria: it started off with something like, my aunt saying, you are 17 whole years old. i wrote to anderson and said, i am 91 whole years old. and, that is how it started. charlie: anything that occurred to you, you would e-mail. anderson: i would email a question. remembers a kid, i

"robin hood," starring errol flynn. i would ask, did you know him? her voice would trail off. i would ask questions. what happened to your mom? how is your relationship? it was putting messages in a bottle and sending it off and a bottle would return within minutes, hours, days later. charlie: i have often said, what you do, what i do, every kid ought to interview their parents and talk about their lives, understand what they have done. i have often talked to my father. not nearly as much as i wanted to. he saw the worst of the war, the battle of the bulge. >> my mom never really had a conversation with her mother. charlie: did you try? >> it was not appropriate.

same thing with gertrude. i knew little about my mother. >> we all people had her's of the past and the things parents have done and things that we say we end up repeating. seeing what she has done, it has been a revelation to me. we have this fantasy of the letter from our fathers. that was something i didn't realize. charlie: was there a letter? >> no letter. >> i did receive a letter from a -- my father. >> she said the same thing to me. charlie: when you asked about

errol flynn, howard hughes? >> i said the best things about howard hughes. charlie: you had a lot of lovers. >> i did. i went out to hollywood when i living and i had been gertrude and she sent me out for two weeks with a chaperone who, when she arrived, they said there was no room here. later, she went home. >> two weeks turned into -- >> she let me do whatever i wanted. charlie: what did you want? >> i wanted to be grown up and go out with movie stars.

charlie: howard hughes. did you think about marrying him? >> i would have. i went to new york and he had sent patty, who was working for him in some way, so that we could see each other. she had a hold on me in a strange way. >> she ended up dating a gofer, who may have murdered his former wife. >> he was associated with lucky luciano. charlie: you married him because you loved him? --you married him because

gloria: well, my mother sort of -- i don't know if she announced the engagement. it happened quickly. he had sort of followed me there. id -- i don't know. i was confused. charlie: and is hard for me to understand these choices. anderson: as you read the book, it is interesting to see that she was this young, 17-year-old, never been exposed to the world, playing blind man's bluff in a forest. every road she goes down, she is a different person. charlie: how old were you there? >> i was 15. charlie: so this was two years

before you headed out. what was the hardest thing to write about, to talk about? was it death? anderson: we both experienced losses through our lives. and, you know, loss, with both speak the language of it. we are comfortable with it. i have a harder time talking about it than my mom. gloria: after carter died, people came and all i wanted to do was talk about it and go over it again and again. i remember a group of friends from school came and i was in bed. you were there and suddenly left. and i thought, "why did you go?" and i realized that you are hearing this over and over and did not talk about it at all.

anderson: i deal with grief and tragedy more introspective and work it out in my head. there is something about doing this through e-mail that made it easy to put aside the old embarrassments and awkwardness. whatever the emotions were. and have this kind of new conversation. gloria: there is a thing about the e-mail where it is quick and you press that and it is gone. you cannot get it back. it is sort of freeing. you know you cannot get it back. anderson: we hope that this encourages people to start sitting down with an aging parent, child, starting a new conversation with someone in your life.

gloria: and, really being able to talk without getting sidetracked with things that are painful. charlie: you have been through much and you have this enduring optimism. gloria: i think it is within my nature. i really do. i just -- can't not. charlie: you don't accept and alternative other than optimism? gloria: i think it will turn out all right and the way it is meant to be. charlie: have you looked at your life and it turned out ok? gloria: oh, yes. charlie: she is tough? anderson: she is not tough. she is a survivor.

the term applies to brass toughness. what is amazing about what you have done is that you decided to survive and make it through things and remain vulnerable. you are also the most formidable person i know. battle the custody happened when i was 10. >> she was given -- >> i had no idea about the vanderbilt family and the publicity was kept from me. we are talking about 1933 and my mother had a lesbian relationship. because itas closed was something so terrible, allegedly. crime. was some kind of

i really had no idea what that meant. it was something that i thought, maybe i inherited it and i am a lesbian. that would be something terrible. i put a shield around myself and i rarely read anything about myself. if i see my name in a newspaper, newspaper, i turn quickly. if it is a nice photograph, i look at it. [laughter]

anderson: i feel like a cooper. that feels like a family to me. and i know that history. i started to read about the vanderbilts. early on, my mom said that there is not a vanderbilts trust and that i would be on my own after college. i thought that was the way it should be. i started earning my own money 11-years-old, and i wanted to take care of myself. so, i never really felt connected and my mom did not feel connected. gloria: i never felt connected. i knew my name was "vanderbilt." my mother never spoke about my father or the vanderbilt family. anderson: even though she was gertrude,h her aunt

she felt like an imposter. gloria: i felt like the imposter, because i was treated like one. i was not welcomed. i never felt like i belonged. whyrson: it is the reason book andto write the do the film. the reality of my mom's life is more interesting than the name implies. people think that she is a lady who goes to lunch. she is painting every day. she has written numerous books. i'm happy that people are seeing her as she is. charlie: what do you wish? is there anything you don't see clearly? gloria: i want you to have a family.

anderson: thank you for bringing this up, as if it is not ongoing. gloria: i want to be alive when you do. and, i want to -- i just, you know -- anderson: she had a conversation with a doctor and she was talking about fertility clinics. i said, mom, i know about this. it is not lack of information. i got it. i am working three jobs. charlie: you must want to. >> i am 48. >> you would make a wonderful father. >> i really do love kids. i don't know. i love what i do. i would have to change it radically. i would want to be the kind of father my father was. charlie: what they say is -- having children, i just spoke to

richard engel, he doesn't take the same assignments because he has children. he has to think about someone else other than himself. anderson: i would not take the same sorts of risks. i would not go to some of the places i go. charlie: do you think he is looking for a reason to not do this? >> you used to be more encouraging about it. >> i used to be convinced. charlie: convinced about? >> having kids. i think we are alike in that the drive that we both have makes it difficult to have a family and to have -- i don't know -- i just think -- i don't know. i would want to make a big change. know --reer and i don't we will see. i don't know. charlie: he wants you to have

another affair. >> i absolutely believe that the phone can ring and your life can change. this is a fact. it is not a fantasy. >> i said, is there a man on a boat off of the coast of france who is waiting to whisk you away? she says, a boat? a yacht! i want to build a boat for my own and take care of myself. i do not want to wait around. charlie: he likes nice things. gloria: he does. "taste."ow that word, person likes. you could say it looks great. anderson: my mom was always encouraging about expenditures. she would say, it is something we would have forever. it was her way of encouraging

something. charlie: did you counsel with her as to what you would make public? anderson: i came out to friends in high school. i did not tell her i would make a public announcement and i had planned to call, going to africa, and i spent three days in a remote camp. i wanted to be away when the story came out and i wrote this letter to a website and tried to call my mom the day before to have the conversation and give a heads up that i had read the letter. it turns out that the camp i went to was so remote that there was no phone, internet, or any type of service. to even get a message out, there

wasn't any way. i did not have time to tell her. two days later, i called her up and she is like, you should have mentioned this is going to be -- pop up this was going to in the "new york times." charlie: you were happy he did this? gloria: of course. joyful . charlie: that seems to be the nature of the relationship. joy. course. love is love and i had

had a huge problem with my -- gloria: of course. love is love and i had had a huge problem with my mother being a lesbian and i was thinking that i would be and it was considered something evil and terrible. so, it took me a long time to have my intelligence work it out and i came to the conclusion that love between a woman and a woman is love and there is no difference at all and it is exactly the same. when i figured that out and, loves.n found someone he i am thrilled. i approve. mom approves. [chuckles] charlie: the book is called, "the rainbow comes and goes." >> it will be on cnn on april 29. >> thank you. ♪

♪ >> good evening. i am sitting in for charlie. in "the meddler," an aging mother begins interfering in every aspect of her daughter's lori's life. the sophomore effort explores the complex relationship between the mother and daughter and vanity fair calls it subtle and meticulously observed. here is a trailer. [video clip]

>> lori, lori, are you not bringing it? >> you have to ring the doorbell. >> there are a lot of hours in the day. >> you should have called. >> you let that die? >> you could be the hobby. >> i have to go to new york for a few weeks. >> i could go with you. assistant.like your >> no. >> what you doing here? >> we needed a babysitter. >> what you have to do is go upside down. that is what we did. also, remind me to tell you about your therapist.

>> do you maybe need a ride? >> i would kill my daughter if she died on the motorcycle. >> this is a harley davidson. >> you should be a lawyer and do not marry. >> what if i gave you the money? >> she is not getting married. >> you got kids? >> a beautiful girl lives over in palm springs. >> who are you sending a selfie to? >> who are you texting? withneed to have sex someone and you cannot be here for it. i do not need a ride to the airport.

host: joining me is susan sarandon and the director. least a have you all at the table. welcome. -- i am pleased to have you all at the table. welcome. this is based a little bit on your mother. >> very much. is this something you came to in the middle of ideas? >> i started writing this after my mother moved my father passed and she got an iphone and started calling. a few voicemails later, i started writing the opening. it got more personal as i went and it is based on my mom. the character is based on my mother and the setup is mostly true. we deviated. >> there is a little bit of an outlet? as you were dealing with this change in your mom.

>> it was very therapeutic and we had a lot of great conversations about what we were going through because we were trying to maintain the close relationship while being a little closer than usual. host: did you think there was a character where you might make the story about her? >> no, i was adamant, i did not want it to be traditional and i wanted this to be about what your mom is doing when you do not call her back and explore this character deeper to change what it means.

see that a lot of meddling comes from loneliness and caring too much and having a lot of love to give and you do not know what to do. people encourage me to do this to get the film made. i only want to tell that story. host: you wanted susan to play the part. >> i had always pictured her and i was picturing susan and she has this quality to her. she is so funny and she is warm and maternal and a humanitarian, one of the most giving and generous people and i thought that this is what my mother dreams of being, the person saving lives, and so susan was kind of the super-marnie in a way.

host: did you know you were walking into a situation that was personal. >> are really left and i was moved. when i met her with her passion and story, i really liked her and i got the opening of the film and that cinched it. i saw that and said that we had to find a way to get this done. when you are working for no money and very fast, you have to surround yourself with players who would play it and we had rose and j.k. simmons and those were huge. all of the other comedians and andd up comics and gals out who were great to hang

with. parts,these little there's not a weak link in the whole thing. >> you met the mom. did you think you would do an impression, because she has the accent? susan: it was written that way and i think it is important. she goes from new jersey to los angeles, she is in black and i wore all her mom's clothes. she is isolated in the way she looks and her accent is important for that. you do not want it to get too big. i had it on my phone and it was something we did not really get and we could go back to fix with a great group of people.

it was moving fast and we only had 23 days. >> a busy schedule. >> you walked onto the set and you have the mother-daughter situation twice over and was your mother there? >> we did not double date the four of us. susan: we had dinner together, it was fun. host: was it strange to have that sense of a relationship to deal with? >> there is a sense of responsibility. there is the context of this and she is emotionally unstable and volatile. you want as much information as you can get and i have like it. it was specific and intimate. it was an honor and i am a fan of her work.

>> i really am. she is a soulful actress and it was pretty cool. >> i want to show another clip of a scene where you are out for a romantic valentine's day dinner. host: and one of the way marnie initiativeshe takes with your ex. -- we will clipw e

watch. >> jacob. >> exactly. >> hey. you two. you two. >> good to see you. you know elyse. we do not want to interrupt your time. >> it is fine. we are doing a drive-by. >> i am not alone. >> together. amuntil later, when i meeting other people. thought we were having a

sleepover. >> that's so cute. had a me and my mother relationship like that. >> well, maybe when you get older. clip]ideo host: were you taking notes with your mom living this life alongside you? >> we spent valentine's day together and, on our double date, i kicked the table once or twice. >> is it more intimidating and nerve-racking to play a person you have met who you know will be watching the film later on? >> the comedy, it was not as painful as i have played. i did one where a daughter have been murdered and there was a complete recreation of the house and we were at a monitor in a difficult scene and that was much and i played sister helen

and i was really nervous of that, because of the implications of the political. on the other hand, your job is to make this a specific as possible and you have things to draw from that makes it easier to do and, in this, the thing that would have been terrible would have been winking at the audience. i have seen some of these kind extreme.hat were very notied to ground it and comment on it. it was a trap that you don't want to make fun of the people. from the outside, i thought, she is crazy.

what did i do? annoying!o from a goodt is place. cringe-worthy. host: a thing that is striking is a film about women with so few films carried in this way and the outside is important. it takes on a different depth. there is a sense, because we do not have films with women at the center. >> you can see a lot of this and there was a book i saw a recently written in the voice of a woman and the movie is in the

voice of male, and it makes a huge difference. how it works is different. host: i was struck when i was watching this film. we see you on screen and she is in the center of the screen. just by herself. dying.and i'm not i do not have alzheimer's. i am not helping someone else who is dying. host: you tell a personal story. was part of it that you want to bring female characters on screen? >> i did not set out to do that. it just happened.

i love it obviously. i feel like we failed the bechdel test. who saw lot of the guys it loved it, laughed and said it reminded them of their mom. i do not think that we made a chick flick. the moving moments, you do not see them coming. we did not sentimentalize times and this was one of the first times where i read a script where i did know. i'm terrible to watch a movie with. i call every development that is going to happen to a point where

it is annoying. i did not feel that way with this. host: when you were making this it, did you to sell get notes that we hear about all the time from studio executives who say to put a guy into it or make the character younger? those are the horror stories we hear. >> we hear that. in hernted to put marnie her 50's,carol in and that did not make any sense to me. they wanted the male character in earlier so that there would be a traditional romantic comedy. they want to make the daughter bigger and from her point of view. i just refused. it all seemed to go against the entire idea of the film. it is about characters at certain stages in their lives e was in herni

20's,if lori was in her it wouldn't have been the same. i really thought it had to be this. i thought it had to be a daughter on the wrong side of 35 and a woman who could have hung it up and felt like that was it. here she is, making a go of it and finding a way to move on. host: what was it like working in this environment? you had female producers involved. susan: i do not want a burst of bubble. the last 3-4 films, i have worked with women and not all men are communicative. i worked on a film with a love -- worked on a film that had a

young female director and she was really mean. herly mean, the girls hated by the end of it. i think you notice women, if you're going to generalize, as producers, without power coming in, you do not have to blame when something goes wrong. goodice that if you have producers, the more women you have on a set, definitely, the vibe changes. but to say that all women directors are one thing is as silly as saying that all men directors are the same. i hope there will be more. the goal is to make sure that

bign have a chance to be as of assholes as men do. woman'sy, to tell a story from a woman's point of view, i'm sure there have been have done writers who this. tennessee williams and other directors or other -- were able to do this. the moments that they seem to miss are the moments that no one is talking and, to see where whereing lands, to see beginning, people want to edit to what they think

is the meat of it. to give characters the moment to have a reaction, we did the and we see things developing and that is really special. host: are you the kind of director who likes to do a lot of takes, likes to have a lot of rehearsal? >> i don't know. we not have the time or the money to do a lot of that and i do not think i would be that kind of person, even with all the time in the world. we would like time to allow these great actors to allow more and we did not needed. we had to do it this way and, with these people, the felt like, three takes and you got it. >> i like working fast. when you have too much time, you

lose focus and it is nice to get the crew focused and they will do those long days all the way through to saturday and we cannot do that for months with people getting cranky. it was a close group of people who wanted to be there. certainly, not for the money. but for the experience and the company and the script and everything else. it was celebratory. but, to be able to focus, it is almost like stunt work. >> you are all in it together.

>> i am used to the very short, fast, cheap set-up. >> for those who bounce from the indy films, there is a sense they are fun and you have this. it is a different kind of film you have this, we are all in intensity.er kind of >> it is the intensity and we have to focus. people are there, not necessarily because they are getting a good day check. it is still the same at the end of the day and you might try to remember that in the situations. whether you are being rushed or it is overwhelming and intimidating.

susan: to have someone you are working with that can be emotionally accessible is unusual. the only other person i have met was melissa mccarthy and she was able to tap into this take after take. she's so open and so full. i keep scenes rose had, calling it the x-games. crying,happy, she was was -- you did not have a lifetime to go off and come up with it. i was following the lead most of the time and it was fun to just watch and respond. she had to be the one driving. host: did this change the relationship with your mom?

>> when my mom does meddle, it is rare. it is great and wonderful and there is always someone who is too involved. i tend to get myself in situations where i just do what i am told. host: what was the experience of watching this with your mom? >> i mean, we -- she saw every cut. she was not allowed on set. it has been surreal.

she is having a great time, she says, oh daddy would have been so happy to be married to susan sarandon. it is more personal now than before and that is the weirdest part, for me. it was personal, on paper. we went to work than we were all just trying to make a film. susan: now, this is scrutinized for the world. hopefully. >> and they will be like, what like,h her tops, and i'm "blame my mother."

it is bizarre and we have screened it and my mother and i experience that differently, as we have experienced almost everything differently. my friends were waing. host: did you consider doing this as a television series? >> i was told to. they said that the female characters are allowed to flourish on television. that just made my head explode. i did not want to live with this for that long and i feel like it has been years. i was excited to give the character of cinematic life and it made me feel like, she may not have been a giant in the world, but there should be a beginning, middle, and end for this character who does not change much and has an experience. it was sort of the reason for the story, to allow for a very human character to undergo a great interest and fun.

a love interest that doesn't exist in- that doesn't life -- yet. we are working on it. >> it straddles the boundaries of comedy and drama and people say it is disappearing, as we go into the action movie universe. what can we do to convince people that we want to see more? >> money talks. i think it is hard to argue with superhero movies that people come out in droves for. these are my favorite kinds of movies and i feel like there were so many films that i could reference that are over 20 years old. i miss the movies that, you know, more than $2 million and under $100 million. i hope that people spread the

word and maybe not say that all movies starring women are genre films. i think that it is about opening up to people and being inclusive. other they don't cal lthe ones "flicks." >> they could. >> i would love to see what happens in other countries. i never saw this as being a country with a subdued culture. so, i'm curious about making it to italy to see how they react there. japan.urprised with italian to greek moms, moms, the ones that i know.

curious about taking it to italy, to see if mom.is a universal host: this is out in april. everybody go see it. and call your mom. ♪

♪ mark: let's begin with a check of your first word news. the taliban of claimed responsibility for a deadly attack on an elite government security agency in afghanistan. nearly 30 people were killed, 300 wounded in a car bombing and a four-hour gunbattle that followed. the united nations is urging the u.s. and russia to get the peace process back on track in syria. the plea follows an admission that a seven-week truce has effectively broken down. today is primary day in new york. hillary clinton voted early in westchester county. bernie sanders needs to win 68% he