tv With All Due Respect Bloomberg April 20, 2016 8:00pm-9:01pm EDT
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mark: i'm mark halperin. john: and i'm john heilemann. "with all due respect" to andrew jackson, sayonara. ♪ john: happy glorious amazing fantastic 4/20 all you fans of the demon weed and those that love them. we will try not to make any reefer ref-- you know what i mean, reefer references. the new york voters with new york values have spoken. the outcomes were even better for donald trump and hillary clinton than expected.
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we will talk about clinton later, but trump's empire state romp earned him closer to the magic number of 1237 delegates needed to secure the nomination, thus avoiding a contested convention. this afternoon, the washington post reported on an internal trunp campaign memo, projecting that the donald is on track to collect 1400 delegates by the time the race is finished. his new york victory speech is getting extra buzz, in part because of his traditional, which is to say not-trump demeanor. gone were the lying ted insults and antics. it was a trump on message, a new more forward-looking front runner. mr. trump: we don't have much of a race anymore based on what i'm seeing on television. senator cruz is just about mathematically eliminated. we have won millions of more votes than senator cruz, millions and millions more than
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governor kasich. [applause] we expect we are going to have an amazing number of weeks, because these are cases, and they are in trouble. when you look at pennsylvania, indiana, maryland and rhode island and so many places, we have problems everywhere you look. we are going to solve those problems. [applause] and one of the big problems is the economy and jobs. and that is my wheelhouse. john: donald trump had a rally in indiana, in which she seems more like the old trump. lying ted was back. but as carefully meditated as it was, what clues did you see as he intends to close out the fight and win of the nomination? mark: he said lying ted today. two big clues for the election. one is, talk about the economy.
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if is can talk about 2% growth, people having anxiety about the future, he can win the general election. and two, trying to be more dignified and more focused. to win the nomination, he is on this message of getting the most votes. and if he is short of a majority, i think you will argue with a lot of passion. i got way more votes, i should be the nominee. john: we will come to that later in more detail. the economic focus is interesting. it's something that people around him, the new and old regime, and others have said for a long time, trump is strongest when he is focusing on the economic theme. you could argue the foreign policy arguments, that in a time of terror, he might be in another place. i think he will have a hard time winning a general election by the way. it is clear from that speech that he thinks that the economy is the ticket.
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strikingly, they got him to actually stick to it last night. mark: we did not show it, but last night he recognized some of the business leaders in the room. he cannot win a general election unless he's the candidate of business. a democrat like barack obama, bill clinton, they win. he put a down payment on that last night. donald trump acting a bit more presidential. ted cruz tried to act unfazed by his weak third-place finish in new york last night. cruz is campaigning in pennsylvania, where he called for a one-on-one debate with turmp ahead of the next primaries on tuesday. in those states, cruz fights it out with john kasich for second place. meanwhile, cruz'campaign manager was at a rnc meeting in florida where he met with party leaders and announced the campaign has $9 million in the bank.
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he says his senator is the only alternative to the stop-trump republicans. there is a prospect that kasich will do better than cruz, maybe not every state, but overall. if cruz finishes mostly third, does that hurt the stop-trump movement? john: it does not in and of itself. i think the cruz campaign is not focused on these states. they are looking towards the western states. looking at nebraska, south dakota, montana, some in california, to be able to score big wins in those states to stop trump. cruz is still on track. there are momentum and narrative questions. they mean something, but i am not 100% convinced that donald trump having a big night last night and on tuesday will hurt ted cruz with the voters of montana and nebraska. mark: that is the question.
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we talk about iowa and new venture as the early momentum. there is an early period when it's about both. if cruz does poorly in the northeastern states, he may do better in delaware, but if you does worse, then kasich, i think that is bad for him. he needs a compelling case that he has momentum going into indiana going out west. a bad night in the northeast. cruz says he can win penciling it in a general election. john: there was this john weaver memo from john kasich campaign, making the argument that the never-trump forces failed. what might unearth the movement if cruz and kasich somehow dilute each other's impact. kasich on his own in these northeastern states could hold
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trump's margins down and take delegates await. they may end up in a murder-suicide pact. mark: the exit polls from yesterday's primary shows 68% of new yorkers said that if no republican candidate gets to 1237 before the convention, the nomination should go to those with the most primary votes. probably methodically certainly donald trump. even if the party thinks there is a better candidate out there. that is precious ammunition for the trump campaign, which is been trying to convince delegates that they deserve to win, even if falling short of that magic 1237 threshold. mark, there are obviously arguments, but are any of those arguments powerful enough to trump the trump argument? mark: very hard to trump the trump argument, especially if he wins the popular vote. the strongest is that this is a popular organization.
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as what kasich and cruz are are going, based on electability. that trump cannot win a general. that has to be there strongest argument. in july to election will be insight. that is the best i think they will have. john: the reality is, and we have various people heralding trump's rise -- the bottom line is that donald trump goes to the commission with fewer than 1237 delegates, he would be a historically weak republican nominee. mitt romney had the magic number by this point in the contest 4 years ago. mark: oh no he doesn't. he had about 100 more delegates than trump. john: so when did he actually lock up? mark: normally you become the de facto nominee, everybody quits and gives up. trump is not that far behind.
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sheridan, where she gave her own clue ridden victory speech about how she would unite the democratic party, and issues she would campaign on in the days ahead. sec. clinton: to all the people who supported senator sanders, i believe there is much more that unites us than devise us. [applause] we are going to keep our families safe and our country strong. and we're going to defend our rights. civil rights, voting rights, workers rights, women's rights, lgbt writes, and rights for people with disabilities. donald trump and ted cruz-- [boos] are pushing a vision for america that is divisive, and frankly dangerous. returning to trickle-down economics, opposing any increase in the minimum wage, restricting a women's right to make her own health care decisions.
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[applause] mark: so john, looking at clinton's speech, what indications are there that you see about how she plans to position herself against sanders in the general? john: well, against sanders, she is not going to say that the race is over, but is quite clear that she believes it. mark: the end is in sight. john: she says in a exquisite way, there is more that unites us than divides us, that is a theme you will hear all the way through to philadelphia. on the republican side, they will destroy the country can be horrible in every possible way. a very contrasting case. she will have things to say that a positive, but so much of what is clear about the another's of this race will be very negative and contrast driven. an assault on republican extreme is.
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mark: people talk about micro-targeting campaigns, sending messages to specific groups. the clinton campaign plans to do that. they will send messages to african-americans, hispanics, to women, to single women. john: all with the same message about how horrible republicans are. mark: on guns, on reproductive freedom, on all sorts of things. but i will say if she can get bernie sanders to endorser, raise money for her, she will be in a lot better shape. she needs to improve her numbers. john: oh my god. mark: but last night i thought she can continue her run. when she is a weak candidate, she looks a lot easier to beat. john: bernie sanders' campaign has been in serious spin mode since his loss in new york. but the future of the campaign has been confusing. late last night, the campaign manager will be on the show
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shortly, telling msnbc that whatever the state of the pledge delegate count after the voting ends on june 7, team sanders plans to fight to merge superdelegates all the way to the convention. then sanders' senior advisor told decision press that they plan to "sit back and this is where we are" after the primaries next week. they quickly walked back at comment, saying that the campaign will stay in the race until every state has voted. here's what divine said on cnn this morning. >> we have to do well next week. we lost a few more delegates than i thought we would. we are a little farther behind in delegates then we hope to be. i hope if we do well next week, then we can get back on course to have a pledge delegate lead by the time voting ends. >> we lost more than we thought we would. we thought the race will be a little bit closer. but we can still do it.
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john: mark, the magnitude of sanders' loss is greater than any side expected. what you think is the prospect that bernie sanders will actually get out of this race, reassess, and stop campaigning before june 8? mark: it does not seem that way to me. she will not have gone fully over until the last day. he wants voters to hear his message. he wants every possible delegate he can to strengthen his arguments at the convention. i think he wants to continue -- i hate this word, but am getting use it, he wants to continue the journey he is on. [laughter] john: the trek. i think the real question is, what happens from june 8 forward? i have no doubt he will campaign until june 7. there is a question about the tone he adopts, what kind of attacks he launches. that is the number one thing that is still in issue. i don't know the answer, but he may back off a little. after that, i think ted knows that if they are behind in
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pledged delegates, they will not be out trying to convert superdelegates. that would be a fool's errand this summer. mark: the one thing that i think will be interesting question, he calls for her to release her speeches, those hard contrast. they still have a lot of money, they have to spend it on something. and does he want to build a movement that is durable? let's say that he's not the nominee. does he want a movement that he leads from the senate, and is there a way to build that or not? john: and have it be a big force in the democratic party. mark: we will ask sander's campaign manager jeff weaver about all these questions. no more speculation, from the horses's mouth right after this. ♪ mark: bernie sanders woke up
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facing a larger delegate gap to hillary clinton. his winning streak now over. questions swirling about what will happen next with his campaign. we have questions, and luckily we have someone that can answer all of them, campaign manager jeff weaver, who joins us inside the inside the beltway. jeff weaver, good afternoon, good evening. >> how are you gentlemen? mark: tad devine has said some stuff, till is clearly and plainly, what is sanders' intention in terms of how he will conduct himself and what his goals are?
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jeff: the goal is to win the nomination for president. that remains the goal. it is an attainable goal. the senator is feeling good. we have five contests coming up next week. starting tomorrow, he will be campaigning in philadelphia. he will go back to pennsylvania. we have four other states. fighting hard for those delegates. john: jeff, which of those states do you feel like you have a reasonable prospect of winning? jeff: i certainly think rhode island will be a positive state. i believe that pennsylvania is externally competitive. i think we have a shot in connecticut. we will fight for the other two as well. mark: if last night, i think you guys have been pretty clear it was not as good as you hoped it would be. when we last talked, you said you had a secret list in your pocket that showed you had to get to a majority of elected delegates. after last night, do you still have such a list?
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jeff: absolutely, we updated it. it is a dynamic document which is updated to reflect the reality of the number of delegates. mark: named three states that are left to vote besides california where you think you will pick up substantial net delegates. jeff: we have the opportunity to do great in pennsylvania, do extremely well in oregon. i think indiana is very competitive right now. going through may, i think that's going to be a great month for senator sanders. he has the opportunity to do what he did before new york, which is run the table. a lot of states with a lot of delegates, new jersey's and others, where he will do well. john: jeff, let me ask you to clarify something you said last night on msnbc about flipping superdelegates. it was a relatively truncated discussion.
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for the sake of argument, let's stipulate that at the end of the voting, we wake up on june 8 and secretary clinton is ahead in the popular vote and ahead in the pledged delegate count. is it your contention that you will spend the summer trying to convince superdelegates that senator sanders should be the nominee? jeff: we would have to substantially closer delegate lead that the secretary currently has. if it looks like it does today, that would seem to be frivolous. if we have substantially closed the gap, if senator sanders has a run of victories, if the general election polls continue to show what they show now and have consistently shown for a couple months, which is that he does better against a republican than does the secretary. in many cases, she loses to john kasich, and in some cases ted cruz. it does make sense in that case. john: jeff, just to be clear, you say there is a circumstance in which you can be behind in pledged delegates and behind in the popular vote, and you would
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still think it was appropriate to spend the summer trying to convince superdelegates to switch to senator sanders away from secretary clinton? jeff: right, given what i just told you, yes. within the context. mark: have you ever been to the clinton headquarters in brooklyn? jeff: i have never. i am waiting for my invitation. mark: i think the place must be filled with fainting couches. this has been one of the most mild battles in terms of rhetoric i have ever covered in terms of two candidates, and yet they really get upset when senator sanders or your campaign says anything about her. nonetheless, there is this fetish with the clinton campaign, bernie sanders continues to criticize secretary clinton. on issues like her wall street speech transcripts, on issues like her position on wall street, on the iraq war, senator sanders will back off or escalate rhetoric?
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jeff: this campaign is a comparison between candidates. on the substantive issues, including how people raise money -- how you raise money is a substantive issue that demonstrate commitment to real campaign finance reform. he will talk about the differences on fracking, wall street, climate change, minimum wage. mark: for those clinton people that say, fine, let him keep running, but he should ramp down the rhetoric that could hurt clinton, you say what? jeff: i have to say what they have seen in this campaign, this is been a mild campaign -- in the event that the secretary becomes the nominee, the kind of firestorm she will face from the republicans will make this look like nothing. mark: jeff, obviously it's true that she would face a lot of criticism from republicans.
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the concern is that you are criticizing her on her character, her judgment, suggesting she is not qualified at one point during the new york primary. now accusing them of breaking the law on campaign finance, that those are giving ammunition to republicans that will eventually be deployed against her. what do you have to say against those charges? jeff: first of all, i think those charges are baseless. the question of judgment has been a question from the very beginning. her support of the iraq war being a prime example of her bad judgment. let's be clear, those of us that no politics know there is a book on secretary clinton that is three feet thick. there is stuff that we have chosen not to go near that they will rollout the day after this nomination is sewn up, if she does that. they have plenty of high paid people. the corresponding republican
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david brock's, who have been doing research on secretary clinton and also as well, they have plenty of ammunition. mark: jeff, a real quick answer, if senator sanders is not the nominee, will he stay in the democratic party? jeff: he said he is a democrat, and will be the democratic nominee. mark: but he is a member of the democratic party for life? jeff: yes he is. mark: jeff weaver, thank you very much. we look forward to talking to you now and next tuesday, when some of those states are voting. across the aisle, will get the republican race with a leading strategist, goes by the name steve schmidt, after this word from sponsors. ♪ you shouldn't have to go far
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to give you the best experience possible. because we should fit into your life. not the other way around. great time for a shiny floor wax, no? not if you just put the finishing touches on your latest masterpiece. timing's important. comcast business knows that. that's why you can schedule an installation at a time that works for you. even late at night, or on the weekend, if that's what you need. because you have enough to worry about. i did not see that coming. don't deal with disruptions. get better internet installed on your schedule. comcast business. built for business. john: before the break, we were talking democrats. now let's turn to republicans. joining us now is a republican strategist, former senior advisor to john mccain, msnbc political analyst, and woody
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harrelson lookalike, steve schmidt. happy 4/20. important day for both of us, i know. this morning, on "morning joe," you were insistent that donald trump is going to get to 1237 by june 8. donald trump will be the nominee. what gives you that confidence that you are sure it is going to happen? guest: if you generously apportion some western state wins to ted cruz, you look ahead to california. 170-plus delegates, winner-take-all, 20-point lead, difficult for me to see any scenario where he does not clear 1237. the worst is he clears it by 60 or 70 delegates. we will be around 1300 june 8. mark: if you took over the ted
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cruz campaign tomorrow, what would you do? guest: they have been trying to narrow this to a two-person race from the beginning. there was a danger for donald trump that he would be in the position of having to fight in a two-way race to the ideological right. i think the litmus test is not ideological. it is a strength test, and donald trump has trumped ted cruz on that test. ted cruz, when he tries to make this a two-person race, comes in third placein new york, behind john kasich, someone he has called for to get out of the race. mark: if i were john kasich, i would say i will give you your two-person race. guest: exactly. ted cruz, that was a bad night for him last night, you know? when you look at cruz coming into these northeastern states, he will lose more momentum. a real tough time in this part
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of the country. john: is mitt romney right that this is a three-person race, that there has been a split in the anti-trump vote? guest: we talk about the never trump movement. for practical effect, it does not seem to be very potent. i understand there are hashtags, but not an organized effort with any effectiveness aimed at stopping him. no one is making the argument. people say, never trump. will you support him as the nominee? i will support the nominee of my party. both cannot be true. it undermines the argument that no one is saying in public what people say privately about donald trump and the republican establishment and leadership. that speaks to why that movement is weak. mark: what are they saying
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privately? guest: they say that he is not fit to be president of the united states, unfit psychologically, temperamentally, ideologically. no one is making that argument publicly. mark: you were reluctant to say what you would do if you took over the cruz campaign. if i gave you $100 million and said, stop trump, what would you spend it on? guest: try to stop him on temperament issues. the most powerful political ad in america history was the daisy ad, lbj running against barry goldwater, using images of the north korean leader, mushroom clouds. you would make a temperament and character attack. you would remind people that the president of the united states is the most powerful person in the world, sits atop the national command authority.
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commander-in-chief of the most potent military in the world, possesses the weapons to extinguish life on the planet as we know it. john: i want to ask you a question about today. we woke up this morning. donald trump got praise from a lot of people for his speech last night. different donald trump. everyone seized on a small thing -- he did not say "lyin' ted." he said senator cruz. he was in indiana calling him lyin' ted again by the afternoon. how do i read that? the discipline is not as effective as we thought it was? is he back to his old tricks? guest: there is a distinction between the speech he made where a lot of the country is watching in primetime. you have just won an election. it is not a rally setting. you are talking about the next stage of the campaign. you are articulating why you should be the nominee, president of the united states. you start to transition into the general election messaging.
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indiana is a contest he will have to compete in. he is going at ted cruz hard. we say the day after, we get ready for the next contest, but the difference in tone on election night, when we are weeks away, that is the biggest significance. john: wouldn't you worry you if you were trying to impose a presidential demeanor on trump if you saw him back again? guest: the issue is not the use of lyin' ted. the issue is comportment. can he comport himself the right way at the right times? can he show the dignity required of the american head of state? mark: if dick cheney gave a speech saying donald trump should not be the nominee, would that hurt his chances? guest: at one point in time, it would have hurt his chances.
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dick cheney is a respected figure in the republican party. but it is late in the day to make that argument. mitt romney is a person inside the republican party that has a lot of affection, respect. he gave a speech and the effect was not particularly injurious to donald trump's chances. john: steve schmidt, thanks for stopping by. come back soon. we will be back in a minute, talking about donald trump. so fast, your head will spin. ♪ mark: we are talking trump, for
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a change, with two journalists that know him well and have covered him for a long time. washington post's jenna johnson here in the studio. and in berlin, maryland, katy tur, who has her finger in her ear. must be loud there. jenna, you were at the trump event. much talk of a different trump. was there a different trump last night? guest: we have seen this evolution the last couple weeks. his speeches at rallies are more structured. we are seeing fewer tweets, fewer late-night rants on twitter. it all culminated in this eight-minute speech last night that was very focused. ran through the points he wanted to make. he did not name-call, did not
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mention hillary clinton, did not take questions from the audience. mark: another change is this talking point memo the washington post has that you obtained from the campaign. talk about why this memo about delegates and about message is distinctive and represents a change. >> it is really different. i am sure the other reporters on the campaign trail can attest to this. we have not seen this in the 10 months donald trump has been on the campaign trail. he has only had a few surrogates. they clearly had some talking points, but for the most part, it seems as if they were able to do what they wanted on television. that is the way it seems. to have a talking points memo that lays out core principles of the campaign, gives them things to say about hillary clinton, who will build a wall, the plan behind building the wall, and why the muslim ban was a good
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idea. the memo says donald trump is the only one with the guts to propose something like this. it's an indication the campaign is evolving. there are folks behind the scenes who have run traditional campaigns in the past. it is an indication that that donald trump himself may become a more traditional politician. there are sources in the campaign that say this is a bad idea, that donald trump has succeeded this far by being himself, by being anything but presidential, a politician. there are those closest to him that believe in order to get the nomination and go to the general, he will need to change his tune a little bit. john: i will ask about that memo, but there is a lot of talk about internal strife between the paul manafort forces and
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corey lewandowski. how true is it, and how debilitating could it be? >> it is very true. for nearly a year, donald trump had a very small core group of people around him. they did not have much experience. sometimes, it almost felt like a reality show, you know? a group of people brought together to try to win an election. and then they were winning. they were having successes. they were not only doing well in the polls but doing well at the polls. and they feel like they have done their part. they have found the secret recipe. but this has become a delegate fight. donald trump has decided he needs to go back to these old tried and true methods. that is why he brought in these very seasoned people. john: but the infighting is bad, debilitating?
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fighting in a way that could be bad for the campaign? or are they accommodating themselves? what is the deal with that? >> for now, people have specific jobs. they do those jobs. every now and then, it sounds like there is friction over who gets to make what call. but i also think that donald trump has said everyone is happy and will get along. i am the boss. you all report to me at the end of the day. they are making it work for now. we will see. john: one question about that document, the talking points memo mark talked about. 1400 delegates projected for donald trump. does it lay it out in detail? how credible is it? >> i am looking at it now, and it does not necessarily lay it out in detail. a lot of generalizations. we will get most of the delegates and close the door on other candidates getting to 1237 before the convention.
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not very detailed when it comes to talking points. the campaign feels strongly they will do well in the northeast, over 50% from internal projections. they believe they will get past the 1237 number when they get to the last primaries in california and new jersey on june 7. the process of getting that remains to be seen. there are 54 unbound delegates in pennsylvania. they are already making a play for those delegates. they have a slate of candidates. they did not do that in wyoming or colorado. i asked paul manafort about this last night. they said they believe the party bosses are out to get them in colorado and wyoming and it would not be prudent to waste money out there. pennsylvania, they believe the message resonates more. exactly how they get the number is not laid out. mark: thank you.
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stuart, and bloomberg's brand-new addition, jennifer jacobs. thanks for coming on the show, ladies. jennifer, what is going on down there? >> we have been looking to see if this is a big never trump rally or if it's about welcoming him into the fold. not seeing either of that. everyone is subdued. you are not hearing complaining, not hearing a lot of embracing. people say the win in new york was baked into the cake. the people i talked to do not know if it will be a contested convention yet, despite what ted cruz said here to reporters, that it definitely will be a contested convention. the republican committee members are not convinced. john: jennifer, have you heard anything that struck you as news, genuine news? jeff roe talked a little bit down there today.
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what come across your radar that strikes you as new and important? >> there is concern, rumbling about are sponsors and businesses trying to avoid our convention? can we overcome that? there was a lot of chatter about the memo the rnc released that they are at $130 million for the presidential cycle so far, a record for a cycle when they did not hold the white house. $11 million for last month. they are just not worried about it. one member said they think this is a democratic plant, this narrative somehow the convention is in trouble. there is a lot of clamor for it. there is a big waiting list for press row. there is just a lot of speculating and responding to media reports. mark: let's go to salena.
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thank you for joining us. seems to me pennsylvania should be trump country. is that right? >> pretty right. i think all three of them have an argument, trump and kasich more so than cruz. pennsylvania's gop primary is done differently. there are 71 delegates, 54 are free agents that can go with, on the first ballot, whoever they want to. we called all 162 who are running for delegate. of them, almost 70 said they will go whichever way the congressional district goes. 25 said they would go with cruz. 19 said they would go with trump. kasich and cruz have been working these delegates. trump had his campaign call and reach out to them. they created a website. i do not think he has personally called them yet, but the other
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two have met with them personally. trump leads in the polls in pennsylvania. you will see a poll tomorrow where he has pulled further ahead with kasich running in second. kasich was born here in pittsburgh. there are a lot of similarities between most of pennsylvania outside of philadelphia and ohio. he has appeal here. john: christine, connecticut coming up. winner-take-all by congressional district. proportional, 20% if no candidate reaches over 50%. can donald trump get 50%? what can be done to stop him if not? >> trump is definitely getting over 50% of the vote. i believe he will take all of connecticut's 25 delegates up for grabs. connecticut is a very small state. there are three superdelegates that could go whatever way they choose. i think next tuesday, we will see trump and, on the democratic side, hillary clinton victorious.
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john: the kasich campaign says john kasich could stop trump in the first, second, fourth, and fifth congressional districts. is that plausible? >> in the polls done, in connecticut, kasich comes in a far second. he gets about 28% of the vote. he is coming back here on friday for a town hall. he was in the lower part of the state earlier. i think he has the support of the republican establishment here. there were no republican officials at the trump rally last friday. he may be able to take one congressional district. john: we have 30 seconds. is hillary clinton likely to win a new york-sized victory in connecticut? she is likely to win, but will it be that big? >> the polls have her nine to six points ahead of bernie sanders. we may see bernie sanders in new haven on sunday.
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