♪ >> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." >> good evening, i am al hunt, filling in for charlie rose, who was on assignment. we will take a look at last night's primaries. donald trump got control, beating out john kasich and ted cruz. trump won nearly 65% of the vote, capturing around 90 of the 95 delegates. clinton one over 63% of the vote. the margin of victory letter to declare that the nomination is

now in sight. supportl people who senator sanders, i believe there is much more that unites us than divides us. [applause] to keep ouring families as they defend our country strong, and defend our rights, civil rights, voting rights, workers rights, winners rights, lgbt rights. the race for the democratic nomination is in the home stretch, and victory is in sight. klein,ning me now, joe political columnist for "time," magazine. and at least so they are, national politics reporter from the associated rest, covering hillary clinton, i am pleased to have them all at this table.

me ask you this, trump, a huge victory. is that clearly in the pathway to the 1237 votes? trouble, ifhas to he does well in california, i think you will do well next week. he may come close to the delegates. al: hillary now segues to the election. >> we will certainly see her make that pitted. we saw it last night. she have to win just 27% of the remaining delegates. of course, she could lose by states,gins in all the but there is no indication bernie sanders will drop out anytime soon. he is getting 28,000 people here in prospect park. he will still be in the game, the question is whether he

starts pivoting away from attacks or leaning into them. if he is leaning into them, that will be a problem for her. they both won and their adopted home state, what does that tell us about the election this year? joe: i was happy to see the return of culinary popular is him. you have to do hot dogs in coney island. say to whatto happened last night is that the nomination process ended in both parties, except for the fact that this is 2016 and we don't know what will happen next. momentum, believer in but things change in 48 hours these days. the next round. >> trump will probably do well, maybe not as well as new york, but well.

, indiana,e california 57 delegates. all three, i could see them thinking indiana, i could win it. >> pennsylvania has a lot of delegates that run unaffiliated. there are many of the don't think trump has this wrapped up. >> pennsylvania is interesting exitse that is not an ohio the john kasich have, it is a western pennsylvania accent. night the time, and last was a not bad night for him. a terrible night for him, but better than ted cruz. , john look at the polling kasich is running second, ahead

of cruz and many of them. but i think the real issue now have toboth candidates solve something going forward. for hillary, it is the enthusiasm gap. trump, it is whether or not he is going to try to be a conventional politician. he tried last night and gave a very short, instantaneous for him, victory speech. cruz,led ted cruz senator i was bored to tears. al: i don't want to go into indiana just yet. you know indiana, ed. could you give the edge? ed: i give the edge to cruz. remember indiana has shifted back-and-forth with

obama. it should be one of our states long-term. you have a former governor we are all friends with, mitch daniels, and a trump does not quite fit the conventional conservative. >> let's assume that kasich does well in pennsylvania. that changes the big moments. 7, 172nia on june delegates. , that is a all complex as you can get. >> cruz has been there for six months, he has worked in that state very hard. it is normally a media stay, but this particular case, a grassroots effort.

the election, where next week, it would go pretty easily. >> what a year, the republican nomination decided on the bronx amber lee. -- and berkeley. all the moderates have left. in the central part of the state, i was out there in the last congressional election, there was a pretty big tea party movement. you have what is left of the republican party in california, correct me if i am wrong, it is a very conservative party. and cruz he has most of those people ready for him. would preferllary

to run against ted cruz, a guy that they see as pretty conservative. the most conservative nominee we would have ever had on the republican side. the concern about donald trump is more the unpredictability and is expectation, if there anxiety from bill clinton that he would bring up all those 90's scandals. she would be defending his legacy and it would be very ugly and nasty. she is not the best campaigner. i don't know who i met team wants to play donald trump for the debate prep, it was not a popular assignment. >> a frustrated reporter. al: i would think that kasich and cruz would have a conspiracy of sorts, and take their places. i think cruz could win 30 or 35

districts. but new jersey is a winner take all, ted cruz has no chance in new jersey. john kasich, with an attractive gubernatorial record, might be able to give trump a contest in new jersey. >> johnna still thinks he can win this thing. be viceoes not want to president, he still wants to be the nominee. and his thought process, -- and you don't want to get in the way of chris christie on his turf. he has a wonderful campaigner, no matter what else you say about him. you could bet his farm on donald trump. i think the other two candidates will say ok. hampshire, seventh or

eighth. ed: and he blames it on marco rubio, you remember marco rubio. both trumptalk about and hillary clinton here. peter hart, distinguished pollster says donald trump has ever seen of a national candidate. 24% favorable, 65% unfavorable. countering ae on international crisis. that was actually 64%-20%. have you ever seen numbers that big? >> hillary does not have good numbers either. al: how does trump stop that hemorrhaging? >> it will be hard, because as i said before, if he tries to be a

conventional politician, he will lose the naughty energy and find out he does not know anything. the biggest question between hillary and trump is to spend more time doing their hair in the morning. [laughter] i think ed is a very good point. trump's numbers are terrible, very goody are not either. people say she is not trustworthy or likable. what did they say about turning that around? this is not any year, this is a highly unpredictable year. will start tohe look better by comparison to donald trump. he will drive out minority voters to protest. she will be able to capitalize on some of that energy. there are also looking at how

she campaigned in new york. on monday i was with her, we did eight stops all over the city. we did car washes in queens and chinese restaurants in flushing, call is at bisexual centers in manhattan. >> not as many of those in virginia. put her in more settings were she can be intimate with people. >> i can remember another candidate who are pretty much wrapped up the nomination at exactly this point in the campaign, bill clinton. --: al: his biggest problem, people thought he was a person of privilege. once they do that, they were helped by ross perot, obviously.

>> one is, he had the whole ross perot spectacle which took a lot of the jazz away from george h.w. bush. outfact that perot turned to be crazy did not hurt, either. [laughter] he made a very interesting vice clone, alto pick, his gore, a moderate southerner. people did not do that kind of thing. there was all of a sudden a lot of energy, and hillary clinton can do the exact same thing. al: the bernie base would not worry as much about bernie. she is certainly going to be considered. the numbers also bring us back

to why you are this outpouring of frustration from berg than after new york about bernie sanders. there is a lot of overlap between the critique of hillary clinton and the donald trump critique of hillary clinton. they are talking about a live the same things. is concernedpaign with how that dovetails into the general election. how would you run against hillary clinton, and how does she present herself as any sort of agent for change? >> a fire running trump's campaign, which i am not, i would make it about strong leadership. she plays it safe. he has got to do something different. campaign,ence in this we are going to have a nuclear war, nothing but rubble at the end of the day. takes, and my

senses, they have everything trump,nt on cruz and and hillary and bill. over react as he did this week with bernie sanders, his blood pressure went up. i'm worried about his health. grenades, $1nd billion of negative ads, nothing but rubble left. someone will survive, but it will be a survival. we talked about hillary clinton not being trustworthy. you said donald trump lies egregiously. we have seen politicians exaggerate in the store, but nothing like this area said that he saw muslims demonstrating, did not happen. but it does not seem to matter. that, the fact that he does not know anything does

not seem to matter. republicans are walking around saying to themselves, i don't know what i will do with my investments when this guy gets to be president, because there'll will be a trade war and a depression. uaw memberslot of who voted for bernie because of trade and because they consider themselves good democrat who may not vote for trump. also in his latest poll, show that hillary clinton has less support among white males than barack obama does. but his numbers are pretty good right now, at least compared to what they were. so much of her focus is on keeping turnout high among african-americans, driving turnout in latinos and women

because she knows that white men will be a tough sell for her. heating --er total , anding to al sharpton those jokes, distasteful. joe: and morally questionable. when bill clinton ran for president, there were three words on his bus. opportunity, community, and responsibility. hillary clinton never talks about responsibilities, only about rights. that is true of politicians in general these days, but in her case, she has not gone up against the base of her party wants, as opposed to donald trump who goes up against the base of what may or may not be right. some 170s orone

180s. she has come out against pacts, not as hostile to wall street as she has been in the past couple months. she is not trusted to begin with, she cannot give it back now. >> bernie sanders is throwing light jabs at her. trump, it is cruz or heavy candidates. ,isa: we keep a long record there is a whole long list of issues where she has changed positions that will be red territory for someone like trump, that he has been all over the map. she brags about that all the time, and rightly so. she has gotten pretty tough, but she has never been in a theon-one campaign where attacks were focused on her, her personality, her competent. and her integrity.

i have to say, the clinton foundation will be a huge issue in the fall. >> they have been collecting stuff on that. she also has some great policy strengths, no qution there. she knows as much as anybody. >> she is not a great candidate. >> i think they made a huge mistake by focusing on benghazi, a phony scandal. libya is a disaster, and no one has criticized her for that. bernie really laid low on that. strengths are her ability to take a problem set before her and figure out what the various components are and tried to figure out a way to solve it. the problem is, she

sometimes comes up with the wrong answer, in syria and libya. every bit as much a disaster. >> as obama made clear on his interview with charlie this week. lisa: that is not particularly valued this year, in this year of antiestablishment, people do not want problem-solving and low policy changes. she knew more about this stuff and all of the candidates put together. is of the campaign in the fall, which all three of you say is highly likely, personal and full of insults, someone will win. probably hillary clinton. and campaigns make a difference as far as your capacity to govern. and i will be a real problem for the next president. >> there are significant problems facing this country. al: it will be more like the

clinton foundation or trump scandals. lisa: who knows what the republican party looks like at the end of this. >> all three of you know there are an awful lot of sane, rational, experienced people roaming around in the area of public policy and in politics. none of them are being expressed in the course of a presidential campaign, or the way things work on washington. there has got to be at some point in the next couple of years a convening of the sanity caucuses. a group of people have to say we just cannot continue as a country this way. i do not know would lead it or be part of it, but i do think it is time for the grown-ups to step back in a little bit. you a question, you ran ronald reagan's campaign , what would ronald

reagan think of this year, and the republican party today? >> he would be appalled by the performance. he was never a name caller. that they reach for each other's mantle and punch and heher's lights out, has significant things he believed in. ed: strong national defense, lower taxes, less government. he never backed away, he had a core -- core beliefs. al: thank you so much. i think we actually informed people a little bit today. we will be right back.

♪ scottd evening, imho sitting in for charlie rose who is off tonight. ," is a filmlash with ralphlda sling, fiennes and his daughter. here is a preview. ♪

>> we were hiding out. meet marianne and paul. >> i am his daughter. ♪ >> we were students, how many years ago? >> you are pretty domesticated for a rock star. ♪ >> i don't smoke. >> that does not mean you don't want some. >> we were friends, better than brothers.

>> the world is not ready for it. >> i fall in love with every pretty thing. >> you don't want to do this. >> you are obscene. >> everybody is obscene, that is the whole point. >> when i look at what i have done. joining me now is the film's director, luca guadagnino , tilda swinton, and ralph fiennes. venice, andilm in it was really an extraordinary experience. fundamentalith two questions, who are these people, and what is this place?

maybe we can start with that. it takes place on this island, pantelleria. what is this place, how did you find it? i thought of the place when i was 15. i did a strange vacation with my classmates. i left of the islands, bringing with me a sense of displacement. a reconciled place, it is a tough place to be. wind, and the rocks off the island. ao scott: where is it? is tunisian, off the coast of africa. when i wanted to do the remake of jacque deray's movie "la

piscine," i went back to the island. they were about people lounging , i the coast of azur thought, let them be challenged by a place that brings a lot of otherness to it. .t started from pantelleria ao scott: you do have a sense of this place haunting the characters who are foreign to it. they are tourists on vacation, but there is something more sinister afoot that doesn't seem to come from the place itself. when you have these paintings, and say, what is this figure in the landscape? i think both of the figure and the landscape are protagonists. it is important, that interaction. in terms of how they both interact with one another.

it starts out, marianne and her lover paul, are in a kind of paradise. kind of paradise and have gone to escape all of their lives, all of the stresses of civilization. and all of a sudden, the snake arrives in the garden in the person of harry. but there is a striking thing .bout marianne in this movie she speaks almost not at all. she is recovering from throat surgery. she is a singer. a rock star. where did that idea come from to have her basically mute? luca first asked me to consider being in the film, i looked at this idea, this tension between these people.

this act coming in damping up the volume. i have a really active imagination. and i've seen the film. it just occurred to me that it would be an interesting experiment. especially since harry never draws breath. get the sense that she also was very -- they had a very mouthy relationship. i thought the idea of the old relationship being unable to operate in this way would be interesting. they are tourists, but they are more than tourists. the become the base of luxury. luxury is a real character. they are not just tourists.

they are people who are extremely privileged in a sort of hiatus. they are running away from painful stuff. suicidetly attempted and has just gone clean. they are hiding out. they are hiding out in this luxurious kind of scenario. ao scott: ucs backs of the aspects ofyou see .he reality behind them that paul and marianne have fantasyted this perfect world where all of the needs and .esires

it played by dakota johnson. this arrival was one of the most extraordinary entrances. he turns up the volume. ralph: i think he's someone that always has to exist with the volume. he's gotten to a place where he can never sit in that part of himself. he's always in this mode of hearing himself talk and pushing other people. he's addicted to the need to constantly push people costs personas -- people's personas. but there is a certain honesty about him, i think. >> and there is great too.dictability,

how much of that is planned and strategized and how much of that is happening in the moment? even though this film does follow the plot of the previous movie, it does not ought all -- at all seem a movie unfolding over the course of a plot or story. happen. can and none of these characters are in control of anything. i am curious how you generate that kind of feeling. luca: it is a certain art of narrative that seems to be the universal mode, the model for

cinema. america ineir but in general where you are killing every surprise and feeding expectations. that is something that i really became more and more aware by this simple script that had been submitted to me. finding myself ahead of the script all the time. it because everything was really following a pattern. we were both aware of not wanting to go to any exposition aboutnot go to any mold the characters. in this mythical table, we all

loved our very serious movies about other people. watching them and adjoin the possibility of exploring human nature. so that is what really drives me. theys a downer when proposed it to me but it was an uplifting choice. you were approached with the idea of remaking this film. it was mistakenly perceived as a luxurious movie about luxurious people. ralph: because it was about aristocrats. luca: i think i will end up with the trilogy of the riches. tilda: it's not about aristocrats. at any moment. luca: i think the possibility of a character study, it is

important. personal study. character isn't the right word. maybe we can look at the click of the two characters. >> is he here yet? i'm so happy to see you. what in gillette me know you were here. you can talk. yes, you are? not at all. >> the doctor said two more weeks. >> you look fantastic. you look sexy. >> i'm sorry we didn't call, but we are hiding out. >> not from me. those, the gravelly

chin again. >> you brought a protege. so this is assembling -- ao scott: so this is assembling the four pieces of the puzzle. how did the two of you kind of explore the relationships of these characters? how did that happen over the course of the production? tilda: it felt really easy to imagine, i think. we didn't discuss it much. there is something about the way in which luca works. when we talk about the kind of material of the plot, we need to talk about the atmosphere that he creates. the atmosphere is almost more important than anything that happens. , thatlike a musical score sense of environment.

and all the characters exist within this environment. what we have here is a holiday movie. nightmareight for every time. a holiday movie, high luxury, and old lovers. delight andving happiness. -- beyond that, we just reacted on that. ralph: i think you are right. it was great not seeing onset but in a real place. it immediately gives us much. the path to the pool, the drinks cabinet, the refrigerator. immediately, you feel the history you've read on the pages in front of you. coordinates.

too.s a lot to maria, the setting. ao scott: there is a great sense of physicality and sensuality, highlighted by the fact that marianne can't speak. and the way that here he moves. he has this showstopping dance routine where he drops the needle on the rolling stones record. it is really quite magical. many of these scenes unfold with a dangerous sense of spontaneity. luca: i think every movie is

also a documentary. ,n specifics about that scene you get a profound sense of unspoken bond or history. and in particular, between harry by the simple moment where she is telling the story of the lounge. it is song and routine that marianne knows by the book. line right before. they are not feeling mocked by her. little. -- it is unpayable. it happens with wonderful collaborators.

ralph: we have been shopping, we have a row, then harry wants to build a bridge. makesto the old lady that her caught up. she's a real lady and it was her house. it was originally a party. luca: while we were shooting, it was a strange and contrived to sequence where we were all quite uncomfortable with the page. but it wasn't really working. i remember going to the very same place. harry, instead of fight,g her after the

she brings her to a place she doesn't know and reveals an aspect of himself. , marianne is opened him. he thinks what he created is a door forgetting her back, which is not true. it's an interesting moment. it happened in the place where we shot. very strongly related to the place. it's important. ♪

ao scott: i mean, there is the question of here he's motives of what exactly he's doing there. what he wants to happen. this youngved with -- andr, and he can seem in the scene you are talking about, one of the points where you are not sure if he is scheming and manipulative and face,ted by guile or, in t, a genuine and open person. ralph: there is a personality he can divorce himself from. was unfaithful

multiple times or whatever but i think he hit a point of critical mass. what is the point of it all? it was this. his apparent confidence and energy, he's actually completely lost and desperate for an anchor. another seemre's to look at when harry asks marianne, he's talking about her relationship with paul. let's look at that one. >> i was angry with you. i know i was treading around but you took everything so hard. square. he's a square bear. he's all cuddly and is

hibernating. and he is stuck. you was always grateful to for all. >> how are you dealing with this? what if it doesn't come back? it might not come back. have you thought about that? your voice is your life. you'll just reinvent yourself again. thesearing your mother's close that reinvention? suppose you have your mummy phase and i have

my daddy phase. one way or the other, we will grow old together, won't we? harry.happy, that?u understand something very painful about wanting to have a fight and being the only one who can talk. in the first line, she says the most devastating and cruelest thing. i will always be thankful for giving me all. completely cutting off what harry wants to happen. it's always amazing to watch when one person has the voice and somehow the other

person almost by virtue of being silent has a kind of power in the dynamic. again, i think it has to do with the environment of the film. it is not only this strange edited holiday environment but also on this strange island. it is about the strangest island i've ever been to. not only the wind, but it has this same kind of history and on thentemporary life point where people are heading out of africa and being processed. living inre all denial of that. denial is also a character in the film. we look to see if harry is

maligned or touched. i think he is both most of the time. >> there is another important piece there. they are both artists. role.ere is an important the island is a secondary or ambient character but rock 'n roll is another. tilda: not just artists, collaborators and rock 'n roll are's. age,don't die, they don't and they don't go on vacation for a month. they keep it. ao scott: there is that anxiety of aging and becoming obsolete. you're not supposed to be a areer or father, you supposed to be a turn aaliyah full and rebellious. tilda: the character is also important to cousin she is not

only the newly discovered daughter, but a strange echo about the possibility. you get the sense that she didn't and if she had a child, it kind of is this ghost life they might have had. ao scott: how important was it to your conception of the film? i am very interested on the failures of the generations behind me. and i was reading and thinking a lot about that and about the possibility of growing up and letting go.

these authors never generate or pass there are two new people. to new people. it is contemporary cinema which is really depressing. and the lack of language in cinema. comes afterion that the waves. ,s in, not being nurtured having not been told and having not received a secret from the fathers or the mothers. they eventually had to turn a simpler toward version of cinema which is the

idea of cinema, the idea of people talking. and it is reflected in cinema and in general. it felt like rock 'n roll is the ultite experience of amazing energy that failed its promise but still, subversively, is fusing with this beauty. so these contradictions, the idea you can have both sides in the same person was fascinating to me. i'm not here to judge the fathers. they want to talk about their sons and daughters. that is the outcome. did you have a similar idea where you were influenced -- it is a very powerful idea

that there are these generations. luca: i'm sorry to be talking. but as italian, we are coming timef a long period of where the father was not the father of wisdom, it was the father of knowledge and enjoyment that told us to go and enjoy. don't worry, but just enjoy. he could be seen as the father of enjoyment. the feedback that comes off of that? tilda: but to answer your question, that is exactly the kind of conversation that not only fuels this film but the work i am certainly developing with luca. this is the territory of the work.

it is very vibrant. ao scott: and that is another -- we have been talking about the ambient or hidden influences. i think that's another one. even though it's a very specific story about these people in this place and their interactions, it is an interesting kind of resonance. it feels like it grows bigger than them. movie is secretly a remake of voyage to italy more than la piscine. ofda: it is sort [indiscernible] . ao scott: i love it. i will go back and see it with that in mind. a bigger splash opens on may 4.

i am glad it has brought you here. thank you, charlie, for giving me the experience of speaking with them. thank you for joining us, we will see you next time. ♪

john: i'm john heilemann. mark: and i'm mark halperin. and just like everyone else in the next is, we are mourning the loss of a true prince. ♪ mark: even with prince's passing, the presidential contest speeds on, so we have a family tell all, but first, a trump townhall. on the same day that sarah palin came out about a facebook post about transgendered death room laws in north carolina, donald trump himself was asked on nbc's "today" about the laws, and he