♪ >> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." >> good evening, i am al hunt, filling in for charlie rose, who was on assignment. we will take a look at last night's primaries. donald trump got control, beating out john kasich and ted cruz. trump won nearly 65% of the vote, capturing around 90 of the 95 delegates. hillary clinton one over 63% of the vote. the margin of victory letter to declare that the nomination is now in sight. >> to all people who support

senator sanders, i believe there is much more that unites us than divides us. [applause] >> we are going to keep our families as they defend our country strong, and defend our rights, civil rights, voting rights, workers rights, winners rights, lgbt rights. the race for the democratic nomination is in the home stretch, and victory is in sight. al: joining me now, joe klein, political columnist for "time," magazine. national politics reporter from the associated rest, covering hillary clinton, i am pleased to have them all at this table. let me ask you this, trump, a huge victory.

is that clearly in the pathway to the 1237 votes? if he does well in california, i think you will do well next week. he may come close to the delegates. al: hillary now segues to the election. >> we will certainly see her make that pitted. we saw it last night. she have to win just 27% of the remaining delegates. of course, she could lose by huge margins in all the states, but there is no indication bernie sanders will drop out anytime soon. he is getting 28,000 people here in prospect park. he will still be in the game, the question is whether he starts pivoting away from attacks or leaning into them.

if he is leaning into them, that will be a problem for her. al: they both won and their adopted home state, what does that tell us about the election this year? joe: i was happy to see the return of culinary popular is him. you have to do hot dogs in coney island. i am tended to say to what happened last night is that the nomination process ended in both parties, except for the fact that this is 2016 and we don't know what will happen next. i am a big believer in momentum, but things change in 48 hours these days. >> the next round. >> trump will probably do well, maybe not as well as new york, but well. even before california, indiana, 57 delegates.

all three, i could see them thinking indiana, i could win it. >> pennsylvania has a lot of delegates that run unaffiliated. there are many of the don't think trump has this wrapped up. >> pennsylvania is interesting because that is not an ohio exit the john kasich have, it is a western pennsylvania accent. he has the time, and last night was a not bad night for him. but better than ted cruz. if you look at the polling, john kasich is running second, ahead of cruz and many of them. but i think the real issue now

is that both candidates have to solve something going forward. for hillary, it is the enthusiasm gap. for trump, it is whether or not he is going to try to be a conventional politician. he tried last night and gave a very short, instantaneous for him, victory speech. he called ted cruz senator cruz, i was bored to tears. al: i don't want to go into indiana just yet. you know indiana, ed. could you give the edge? ed: i give the edge to cruz. you have to remember indiana has shifted back-and-forth with obama. it should be one of our states long-term.

you have a former governor we are all friends with, mitch daniels, and a trump does not quite fit the conventional conservative. >> let's assume that kasich does well in pennsylvania. that changes the big moments. california on june 7, 172 delegates. winner take all, that is a complex as you can get. >> cruz has been there for six months, he has worked in that state very hard. it is normally a media stay, but this particular case, a grassroots effort. the election, where next week, it would go pretty easily.

>> what a year, the republican nomination decided on the bronx -- and berkeley. joe: all the moderates have left. in the central part of the state, i was out there in the last congressional election, there was a pretty big tea party movement. you have what is left of the republican party in california, correct me if i am wrong, it is a very conservative party. ed: and cruz he has most of those people ready for him. >> i think hillary would prefer to run against ted cruz, a guy that they see as pretty conservative.

the most conservative nominee we would have ever had on the republican side. the concern about donald trump is more the unpredictability and the expectation, if there is anxiety from bill clinton that he would bring up all those 90's scandals. she would be defending his legacy and it would be very ugly and nasty. she is not the best campaigner. i don't know who i met team wants to play donald trump for the debate prep, it was not a popular assignment. al: i would think that kasich and cruz would have a conspiracy of sorts, and take their places. i think cruz could win 30 or 35 districts.

but new jersey is a winner take all, ted cruz has no chance in new jersey. john kasich, with an attractive gubernatorial record, might be able to give trump a contest in new jersey. still thinks he can win this thing. but he does not want to be vice president, he still wants to be the nominee. ed: and you don't want to get in the way of chris christie on his turf. he has a wonderful campaigner, no matter what else you say about him. you could bet his farm on donald trump. i think the other two candidates will say ok. >> in new hampshire, seventh or eighth.

ed: and he blames it on marco rubio, you remember marco rubio. al: let me talk about both trump and hillary clinton here. peter hart, distinguished pollster says donald trump has ever seen of a national candidate. 24% favorable, 65% unfavorable. 64-12 negative on countering a international crisis. that was actually 64%-20%. have you ever seen numbers that big? >> hillary does not have good numbers either. al: how does trump stop that hemorrhaging? >> it will be hard, because as i said before, if he tries to be a conventional politician, he will lose the naughty energy and find out he does not know anything.

the biggest question between hillary and trump is to spend more time doing their hair in the morning. [laughter] al: i think ed is a very good point. trump's numbers are terrible, but hillary are not very good either. people say she is not trustworthy or likable. what did they say about turning that around? >> this is not any year, this is a highly unpredictable year. they believe she will start to look better by comparison to donald trump. lisa: he will drive out minority voters to protest. she will be able to capitalize on some of that energy. there are also looking at how she campaigned in new york. on monday i was with her, we did

eight stops all over the city. we did car washes in queens and chinese restaurants in flushing, centers in manhattan. >> not as many of those in virginia. lisa: put her in more settings were she can be intimate with people. >> i can remember another candidate who are pretty much wrapped up the nomination at exactly this point in the campaign, bill clinton. al: his biggest problem, people thought he was a person of privilege. once they do that, they were helped by ross perot, obviously.

>> one is, he had the whole ross perot spectacle which took a lot of the jazz away from george h.w. bush. the fact that perot turned out to be crazy did not hurt, either. [laughter] he made a very interesting vice president to pick, his clone, al gore, a moderate southerner. people did not do that kind of thing. i can tell you there was all of a sudden a lot of energy, and hillary clinton can do the exact same thing. lisa: she is certainly going to be considered. the numbers also bring us back to why you are this outpouring of frustration from berg than after new york about bernie sanders.

there is a lot of overlap between the critique of hillary clinton and the donald trump critique of hillary clinton. they are talking about a live the same things. clinton's campaign is concerned with how that dovetails into the general election. al: how would you run against hillary clinton, and how does she present herself as any sort of agent for change? running trump's campaign, which i am not, i would make it about strong leadership. she plays it safe. he has got to do something different. the difference in this campaign, we are going to have a nuclear war, nothing but rubble at the end of the day. whatever it takes, and my senses, they have everything they want on cruz and trump, and hillary and bill.

watch bill over react as he did this week with bernie sanders, his blood pressure went up. i'm worried about his health. it will be hand grenades, $1 billion of negative ads, nothing but rubble left. someone will survive, but it will be a survival. al: we talked about hillary clinton not being trustworthy. you said donald trump lies egregiously. we have seen politicians exaggerate in the store, but nothing like this area said that he saw muslims demonstrating, did not happen. but it does not seem to matter. >> not only that, the fact that he does not know anything does not seem to matter. republicans are walking around saying to themselves, i don't know what i will do with my

investments when this guy gets to be president, because there'll will be a trade war and a depression. there are a lot of uaw members who voted for bernie because of trade and because they consider themselves good democrat who may not vote for trump. peter hart also in his latest poll, show that hillary clinton has less support among white males than barack obama does. al: but his numbers are pretty good right now, at least compared to what they were. lisa: so much of her focus is on keeping turnout high among african-americans, driving turnout in latinos and women because she knows that white men will be a tough sell for her.

toadying to al sharpton, and those jokes, distasteful. joe: and morally questionable. when bill clinton ran for president, there were three words on his bus. opportunity, community, and responsibility. hillary clinton never talks about responsibilities, only about rights. that is true of politicians in general these days, but in her case, she has not gone up against the base of her party wants, as opposed to donald trump who goes up against the base of what may or may not be right.

al: she has done some 170s or 180s. she has come out against pacts, not as hostile to wall street as she has been in the past couple months. she is not trusted to begin with, she cannot give it back now. lisa: we keep a long record, there is a whole long list of issues where she has changed positions that will be red territory for someone like trump, that he has been all over the map. al: she brags about that all the time, and rightly so. she has gotten pretty tough, but she has never been in a one-on-one campaign where the attacks were focused on her, her personality, her competent. and her integrity.

joe: i have to say, the clinton foundation will be a huge issue in the fall. >> they have been collecting stuff on that. she also has some great policy strengths, no question there. she knows as much as anybody. >> she is not a great candidate. >> i think they made a huge mistake by focusing on benghazi, a phony scandal. libya is a disaster, and no one has criticized her for that. bernie really laid low on that. >> her strengths are her ability to take a problem set before her and figure out what the various components are and tried to figure out a way to solve it. joe: the problem is, she sometimes comes up with the wrong answer, in syria and libya. every bit as much a disaster.

>> as obama made clear on his interview with charlie this week. lisa: that is not particularly valued this year, in this year of antiestablishment, people do not want problem-solving and low policy changes. >> she knew more about this stuff and all of the candidates put together. >> if we have is of the campaign in the fall, which all three of you say is highly likely, personal and full of insults, someone will win. probably hillary clinton. and campaigns make a difference as far as your capacity to govern. and i will be a real problem for the next president. >> there are significant

problems facing this country. al: it will be more like the clinton foundation or trump scandals. rational, experienced people roaming around in the area of public policy and in politics. joe: none of them are being expressed in the course of a presidential campaign, or the way things work on washington. there has got to be at some point in the next couple of years a convening of the sanity caucuses. a group of people have to say we just cannot continue as a country this way. i do not know would lead it or be part of it, but i do think it is time for the grown-ups to step back in a little bit. al: let me ask you a question, you ran ronald reagan's campaign in 1984, what would ronald

reagan think of this year, and the republican party today? >> he would be appalled by the performance. he was never a name caller. the fact that they reach for each other's mantle and punch each other's lights out, and he has significant things he believed in. ed: strong national defense, lower taxes, less government. he never backed away, he had a core -- core beliefs. al: thank you so much. i think we actually informed people a little bit today. we will be right back. ♪

♪ >> good evening, i am a o scott sitting in for charlie rose who is off tonight. "a bigger splash," is a film starring tilda swinton, with ralph fiennes and his daughter. here is a preview. ♪

>> we were hiding out. meet marianne and paul. >> i am his daughter. ♪ >> we were students, how many years ago? >> you are pretty domesticated for a rock star. ♪ >> i don't smoke. >> that does not mean you don't want some. >> we were friends, better than brothers. >> the world is not ready for it.

>> i fall in love with every pretty thing. >> you don't want to do this. >> you are obscene. >> everybody is obscene, that is the whole point. >> when i look at what i have done. ao scott: joining me now is the film's director, luca guadagnino, tilda swinton, and ralph fiennes. i saw this film in venice, and it was really an extraordinary experience. it left me with two fundamental questions, who are these people, and what is this place? maybe we can start with that.

it takes place on this island, pantelleria. what is this place, how did you find it? luca: i thought of the place when i was 15. i did a strange vacation with my classmates. i left of the islands, bringing with me a sense of displacement. it is not a reconciled place, it is a tough place to be. a very strong wind, and the rocks off the island. ao scott: where is it? luca: it is tunisian, off the coast of africa. when i wanted to do the remake of jacque deray's movie "la piscine," i went back to the island. they were about people lounging off the coast of azur, i thought, let them be challenged

by a place that brings a lot of otherness to it. it started from pantelleria. ao scott: you do have a sense of this place haunting the characters who are foreign to it. they are tourists on vacation, but there is something more sinister afoot that doesn't seem to come from the place itself. luca: i like when you have these paintings, and say, what is this figure in the landscape? i think both of the figure and the landscape are protagonists. it is important, that interaction. in terms of how they both interact with one another. ao scott: it starts out, marianne and her lover paul, are in a kind of paradise. they have gone to escape all of their lives

they are in a kind of paradise and have gone to escape all of their lives, all of the stresses of civilization. and all of a sudden, the snake arrives in the garden in the person of harry. but there is a striking thing about marianne in this movie. she speaks almost not at all. she is recovering from throat surgery. she is a singer. a rock star. where did that idea come from to have her basically mute? tilda: when luca first asked me to consider being in the film, i looked at this idea, this tension between these people.

this act coming in damping up the volume. i have a really active imagination. and i've seen the film. it just occurred to me that it would be an interesting experiment. especially since harry never draws breath. and you never get the sense that she also was very -- they had a very mouthy relationship. i thought the idea of the old relationship being unable to operate in this way would be interesting. they are tourists, but they are more than tourists. the become the base of luxury. luxury is a real character. they are not just tourists.

he recently attempted suicide and has just gone clean. they are hiding out. they are hiding out in this luxurious kind of scenario. you see aspects of the reality behind them. that paul and marianne have constructed this perfect fantasy world where all of the needs and desires. it played by dakota johnson. this arrival was one of the most extraordinary entrances. he turns up the volume.

ralph: i think he's someone that always has to exist with the volume. he's gotten to a place where he can never sit in that part of himself. he's always in this mode of hearing himself talk and pushing other people. he's addicted to the need to constantly push people costs personas -- people's personas. but there is a certain honesty about him, i think.

even though this film does follow the plot of the previous movie, it does not ought all -- at all seem a movie unfolding over the course of a plot or story. anything can happen. and none of these characters are in control of anything. i am curious how you generate that kind of feeling. luca: it is a certain art of narrative that seems to be the universal mode, the model for cinema.

not only their but in america in general where you are killing every surprise and feeding expectations. that is something that i really became more and more aware by this simple script that had been submitted to me. finding myself ahead of the script all the time. it because everything was really following a pattern. we were both aware of not wanting to go to any exposition or to not go to any mold about the characters. in this mythical table, we all loved our very serious movies about other people.

and we grew up watching them and adjoin the possibility of exploring human nature. so that is what really drives me. it was a downer when they proposed it to me but it was an uplifting choice. ao scott: you were approached with the idea of remaking this film. luca: it was mistakenly perceived as a luxurious movie about luxurious people. ralph: because it was about aristocrats. luca: i think i will end up with the trilogy of the riches. tilda: it's not about aristocrats. it can crumble at any moment.

luca: i think the possibility of a character study, it is important. personal study. character isn't the right word. ao scott: maybe we can look at the click of the two characters. >> is he here yet? i'm so happy to see you.

ao scott: so this is assembling the four pieces of the puzzle. how did the two of you kind of explore the relationships of these characters? how did that happen over the course of the production? tilda: it felt really easy to imagine, i think. we didn't discuss it much. there is something about the way in which luca works. when we talk about the kind of material of the plot, we need to talk about the atmosphere that he creates. the atmosphere is almost more important than anything that happens.

ralph: i think you are right. it was great not seeing onset but in a real place. it immediately gives us much. the path to the pool, the drinks cabinet, the refrigerator. immediately, you feel the history you've read on the pages in front of you.

ao scott: there is a great sense of physicality and sensuality, highlighted by the fact that marianne can't speak. and the way that here he moves. he has this showstopping dance routine where he drops the needle on the rolling stones record. it is really quite magical. luca: i think every movie is also a documentary. in specifics about that scene, you get a profound sense of unspoken bond or history. and in particular, between marianne and harry by the simple moment where she is telling the story of the lounge.

it is song and routine that marianne knows by the book. the line right before. they are not feeling mocked by her.

ralph: we have been shopping, we have a row, then harry wants to build a bridge. we go to the old lady that makes her caught up. she's a real lady and it was her house. it was originally a party. luca: while we were shooting, it was a strange and contrived to sequence where we were all quite uncomfortable with the page. but it wasn't really working. i felt harry, instead of bringing her after the fight, she brings her to a place she doesn't know and reveals an aspect of himself. in doing so, marianne is opened him.

he thinks what he created is a door forgetting her back, which is not true. it's an interesting moment. it happened the place where we shot. very strongly related to the place. it's important. ♪

ao scott: i mean, there is the question of here he's motives of what exactly he's doing there. what he wants to happen. he has arrived with this young daughter, and he can seem -- and in the scene you are talking about, one of the points where you are not sure if he is scheming and manipulative and motivated by guile or, in fact, a genuine and open person. ralph: there is a personality he can divorce himself from. he probably was unfaithful

multiple times or whatever but i think he hit point of critical mass. what is the point of it all? it was this. for all of his apparent confidence and energy, he's actually completely lost and desperate for an anchor. ao scott: there's another seem to look at when harry asks marianne, he's talking about her relationship with paul. let's look at that one. >> i was angry with you. i know i was treading around but you took everything so hard.

ao scott: in the first line, she says the most devastating and cruelest thing. i will always be thankful for giving me all. completely cutting off what harry wants to happen. it's always amazing to watch what happens when one person has the voice and somehow the other person almost by virtue of being silent has a kind of power in the dynamic.

tilda: again, i think it has to do with the environment of the film. it is not only this strange edited holiday environment but also on this strange island. it is about the strangest island i've ever been to. not only the wind, but it has this same kind of history and also contemporary life on the point where people are heading out of africa and being processed. and they are all living in denial of that. denial is also a character in the film. we look to see if harry is

maligned or touched. i think he is both most of the time. >> there is another important piece there. they are both artists. and there is an important role. the island is a secondary or ambient character but rock 'n roll is another. tilda: not just artists, collaborators and rock 'n roll are's. they don't die, they don't age, and they don't go on vacation for a month. they keep it. ao scott: there is that anxiety of aging and becoming obsolete. you're not supposed to be a mother or father, you are supposed to be a turn aaliyah full and rebellious. tilda: the character is also important to cousin she is not only the newly discovered daughter, but a strange echo about the possibility.

you get the sense that she didn't and if she had a child, it kind of is this ghost life they might have had. ao scott: how important was it to your conception of the film? luca: i am very interested on the failures of the generations behind me. and i was reading and thinking a lot about that and about the possibility of growing up and letting go. these authors never generate or

their art to new people. it is contemporary cinema which is really depressing. and the lack of language in cinema. this generation that comes after the waves. as in, not being nurtured, having not been told and having not received a secret from the fathers or the mothers. they eventually had to turn their gaze toward a simpler version of cinema which is the idea of cinema, the idea of people talking.

and it is reflected in cinema and in general. it felt like rock 'n roll is the ultimate experience of amazing energy that failed its promise but still, subversively, is fusing with this beauty. i'm not here to judge the fathers. they want to talk about their sons and daughters. that is the outcome.

but as italian, we are coming off of a long period of time where the father was not the father of wisdom, it was the father of knowledge and enjoyment that told us to go and enjoy. don't worry, but just enjoy. and he could be seen as the father of enjoyment. what is the feedback that comes off of that? tilda: but to answer your question, that is exactly the kind of conversation that not only fuels this film but the work i am certainly developing with luca.

ao scott: and that is another -- we have been talking about the ambient or hidden influences. i think that's another one. even though it's a very specific story about these people in this place and their interactions, it is an interesting kind of resonance. it feels like it grows bigger than them. luca: this movie is secretly a remake of voyage to italy more than la piscine. ao scott: i love it. i will go back and see it with that in mind. a bigger splash opens on may 4. i am glad it has brought you here. thank you, charlie, for giving me the experience of speaking with them. thank you for joining us, we will see you next time. ♪

k: prince is dead. shares were called to his home in suburban minneapolis and founder the star unresponsive in an elevator. president obama released a death, today is the world lost a creative icon. one of the most gifted and prolific musicians of our time. prince was 57 years old. president obama