john: i'm john heilemann. mark: i'm mark halperin. and "with all due respect," to ted cruz and bernie sanders, remember them always protect your face. >> hillary clinton and donald trump are hoping to deliver a knockout low to the rivals. >> knockout blows to the rivals. >> a knockout blow. >> knockout blow, knockout blow -- >> knockout punch. mark: fight night in indiana, but for the republicans, it has become the gauntlet.

in one corner, donald j trump, billionaire. any other corner, the now emotional texas senator, ted cruz. as hoosiers went to the polls today, these republicans heavyweights clashed in one of the nastiest verbal matches of this entire nasty campaign. morning when trump went on "fox and friends" and unbidden brought up a national enquirer story about a purported link between ted cruz plus father in the man who shot jfk. mr. trump: his father was with lee harvey oswald prior to oswald being shot. the whole thing is ridiculous. is this? nobody even brings it up. they don't even talk about it. what was he doing with lee harvey oswald shortly before his death? it is horrible. nationalmp takes a enquirer story and states it as fact. speaking to reporters, ted cruz

counter punched hard, unloading a remarkable roundhouse on his own, including imminent warnings to indiana voters in the entire universe. here are the highlights from his extraordinary string of indignation. cruz: donald trump alleges my dad was involved in assassinating jfk. this is nuts. this is not a reasonable position. this is just to keep -- just kooky. i guess i should admit that my dad killed jfk, he is secretly elvis and jimmy half a is buried in his backyard. is aman is a practical -- pathological liar. you cannot tell the truth but --bines it with being an being a narcissist. he's such a narcissist that

barack obama looks at him and says what's wrong with you? everything in his world is about donald. morality does not exist for him. donald is a bully. there's a reason he puts giant buildings and puts his name on them everywhere he goes. he will betray his supporters on every issue. .e's terrified by strong women he's a serial philanderer and he boasts about it. battles withhis material disease as his own personal the amount. it's only the good judgment of indiana that can pull us back. we are staring at the abyss. faith ine incredible hoosiers. wow. in a statement after that, trump responded saying ted cruz is a desperate candidate trying to

save his failing campaign. no surprise he has resorted to his usual tactics of over-the-top rhetoric nobody believes. over the last week, i have watched lying ted become more and more unhinged as he is unable to react under the pressure and stress of losing. ted cruz does not have the temperament to be the president of the items states. so said donald trump. this has upset ted cruz, obviously. big in indiana, cruz is going to be more upset and that is rise to the question -- if trump wins indiana, what options does ted cruz have? john: i would like to posit before answering that in just comment on what we witnessed today. when trump says ted cruz's response suggests he doesn't have temperament to be president -- making the allegation trump made today on the basis of a national enquirer story, holy unsubstantiated, uncorroborated,

without any basis we know of in fact -- mark: and hilariously, his thing was why isn't anyone talking about this? john: it is nuts and demonstrates a lack of suitability for the oval office on trump's part. having said that, trump has been brilliant at finding ways to get under the skin of his rivals. lying ted did not do it. today, he finally did it. he set off a psychic bomb. i'm just saying here's the thing -- they are both behaving abominably here and we will talk aboutwhat ted cruz talked but this is a disgrace. the entire thing is a disgrace to the republican party that these are the two guys left standing, having this kind of exchange on the day of a crucial primary. add some more time to the clock, control room.

he said things i've never seen in my career -- he made a public deal with john kasich, he chose a running mate, he allowed a heckler to occupy him and didn't walk away when he started insulting him to his face. i have never seen a performance like this. -- we didn'tible even show the whole thing. john: he went on for 13 minutes. mark: in trump world, there's a lot of speculation ted cruz will get out of the race. if he loses, he might give a somber speech -- i believe the pressure on him if he loses indiana will be much stronger than than some of his aides understand to get out of the race. john: i agree. i thought trump one as big as the margin is most of the polling suggest and wins all of the delegates. i think ted cruz will be out of the race is not tomorrow, by the end of the week. partly because of the pressure, but partly because he has no path.

it's impossible to accomplish the minimalist goal. cruz has three options -- one is to get out, one is stop trying to win primaries with any great effort and focus completely on rallying people to upend the rules at the convention and find some way to steal the nomination. the middle option of trying to stop trump from getting the majority simply by campaigning hard the remaining states will not work. it is get out or fix the convention. john: the one thing that has become clear is because ted cruz, in the words of john boehner, suggests a degree of loathing on the part of the kind of people he would need to rally in order to change the rules to steal a convention, it still not there. he does not have the support of enough people. that has always in his problem. mark: he's gotten more support on that gain then he will from the upcoming states.

john: that just tells you how bad his options are. this was the deal. this state was the deal. they would repeat wisconsin and now it looks like, and again we don't know, but it looks like we are headed for a decisive donald trump victory. mark: one option it will narrow is donors. they will give up. these are people who do not throw good money after bad. they want a return on their investment. if you loses big, that's it. folks,or the never trump beating trump indiana was seen as a necessary ingredient to keep trump from getting to 1237 to secure the nomination on a first convention ballot. mike western is, and we kind of trump wins andf

ted cruz drops out, which we think is the likeliest thing, is there anything for all of those folks in the republican party, many who deeply leave donald trump should not, cannot, must not be the nomination, is there anything they can do at this point? .ark: their options dwindle john kasich thinks he will have his moment. i'm very skeptical people will rally behind him. the problem is you need a horse and there is no obvious horse. , elder no former nominee statesman, consensus person. paul ryan is not going to put himself forward. i think the stop trump movement largely collapses. in terms of trump getting control of the convention and winning a majority and being the consensus nominee, i think all of that end. john: the biggest problem, apart from ted cruz and john kasich being such week candidates in the stop trump movement, they

are both going to be broke and you are going into states where -- are you going to compete in new jersey and california? without a candidate, your movement is done. twitter and the internet willful up with speculation about who could step our now and rally people -- it's just not going to happen. trump is going to have the delegates. john: some late entry is going to come in? mark: the question is where does all of that energy go question mark you have the former advisor to john mccain saying today he's going to be for hillary. how many people between now and california, prominent republicans say that? john: and how many end up on the other side? mark: easy to forget it was just a couple of weeks ago that ted cruz was ahead in public polling in indiana. then came donald trump's victory in new york and the sweep of the

primary states seven days ago. how did we get here? q up the recap. >> ted cruz, indiana, here is what happened. >> what's the big deal? >> he misses the lay-up and goes for a rebound. >> carly fiorina. >> who falls off the stage. >> i particularly want to commend donald trump. next i am supporting senator ted cruz. >> the alternative could be the destruction of america. >> what was he doing with lee harvey oswald? >> i know who he is. gets heckled by adults and children. >> when a child behaves that way, they get a spanking. >> ted cruz 16, he hits kids. a very tough week for ted

cruz, but is there anything he could have done? had he performed better, close to flawless, could he have run or -- could he have one or was a trump when preordained? john: trump had the wind at his back but ted cruz's performance has hurt him substantially. possible ted cruz could have one, but indiscriminate flailing is not a good look for any candidate. from the moment they struck that it's notek ago sunday, going to sit right with voters and it has the look of desperation. deal if they struck the had not announced it, if john kasich had basically just abandon it -- john: nobody would have noticed.

but if they struck the deal and did pr better, no disrespect to carly fiorina, if he had picked a wow running telegraph,ne with a if they had done a pick and that person that really dominated the news, things could have been different. these movesey made because they were in trouble in indiana, but ted cruz won the wisconsin without any gimmickry and it's a different state, but it's a state that could have been better for ted cruz. i think he would be performing better if he had just campaigned as straight ted cruz, the same way he campaigned in wisconsin. mark: i talked to a strategist who said the northeast states would be for trump, but i did not think they understood how the big wins would affect donald

trump. john: coming up, what is at stake for the democrats? in indiana, we will talk about a whole bunch of things related to team blue after these words from our sponsors. ♪

john: let us now to turn our attention to the loo end of the political spectrum am a team brooklyn has been trying to lower expectations in indiana, suggesting that hillary clinton may not only failed to deliver the fabled knockout blow to bernie sanders, she may actually lose, which means we could be focusing on the next contest on the democratic nominating challenger -- kentucky and west virginia, both voting a week from today followed by the closed primary in oregon and

then caucuses and puerto rico and the virgin islands, the egg finale -- states voting on june 7, including the colossal delegate count from california. does a sanders upset tonight in indiana, should it happen, change the trajectory of this race in any meaningful way? change theesn't trajectory of the outcome, but if he can win tonight and go on a series of winning streaks, he could get to june 7 with hillary clinton still fighting and that will occupy her a little bit. it doesn't mean she has to only focus on him but it allows them to continue to occupy her extensively. john: it is clear the clinton campaign is braced for a loss in indiana. they are also braced for a loss in west virginia.

they believe they are in pretty good shape in kentucky, but they are questioning themselves about the decision to not spend any money in indiana. not said initially they did want to spend any money in california or new jersey, but now they might do that. this is a thorn in her side. the prospect of this thing stretching out and now sanders saying he wants to make it contested in philadelphia. democratic to be the nominee in all likelihood, but it is meaningful this will be a horror show for her. also does not allow her to start to make a case that i'm stronger candidate. i'm the stronger candidate in terms of indiana -- it's not a great loss, but bernie sanders needs a winning streak or he

keeps moving farther and farther away from relevancy. himn tonight for him allows to go harder into california. some coming up, we read general election tea leaves with the great al hunt. ♪

mark: the front runners in both parties are trying to shift their -- shipped to their general election message. to join us with more on that is a man who knows general elections well bloomberg view columnist, al hunt. contest tobout this some extent in both parties to go until june send neither will have a majority. r clinton or trump in a better

position to run out the nomination and organizing for the general? the primary is over after tonight. it may go on for a while, but we have the general election matchup. clinton is an stronger shape right now. trump has a lot of work to do. i don't think losing in indiana tonight will really make much difference at all for her, but they need to get ready and trump has more work to do than clinton. john: talk about that a little bit. and one ofap story the ways trump is behind, what are the ways that will be hardest for him to catch up? al: i don't agree with ap story. obviously, money matters. trump's bigger challenges our number one, issues. his total ignorance about issues.

, they matter. you cannot go into a general election not knowing about national security and so forth. second, for all the attacks, most of which have been counterproductive, some issues have not come up and i will give you an important 1 -- racism. you have to go back to george washington to find any presidential candidate who has played the race card the way donald trump has. butay be attractive to some it will turn off independents and young voters. mark: there is the mechanical issue of money that they want him to raise. do you think trump can and will turn into being the kind of fundraiser the republican party has at the top of the ticket? .l: he has to try he doesn't have a lot of experience in that regard i've talked to a few billionaires and it is quite clear trump doesn't have the inclination or liquidity to fund his own campaign, so he has to try to do

that. how well he does it and how much those donors will figure out a way to focus on the congressional races rather than the presidential races will be instructive and him orton. ed rollins ishat going to join a pro-trump super pac. is the solution for trump to just go big on the super pac front? you don't need that many billionaires to be able to get up to the billion dollars you need. is that a play for trump or does that undercut his key messages, which have been i'm not bought and paid for and i don't know anything to the special interests? donald trump has never been bothered were impeded by consistency. that rollins doing that. i interviewed him for charlie rose just two weeks ago. donald trump would be a disaster in the general election. ronald reagan would be mortified

at he wants to play and get in the game and i think super pacs may be the only way trump can go and there may be a couple of big sugar daddies who so hate hillary clinton and will fork it over. mark: put in perspective what ted cruz today in response to a trump said? all,t probably wasn't help but if anybody ever said that about my dad when i was alive, as outrageous as his races comments. it just was. the national inquirer may be the trump house organ, but to go on a radio show and say that, i can understand why ted cruz did what he did. john: answering a question mark and i batted around in the show. watching his performance with all the gimmicks and all of the hail marys he has thrown, do you

think he could have won the state had he performed better in indiana? al: i'm not sure. i think those northeastern primary wins were so overwhelming that i think it is doubtful. it didn't work, but he threw hail mary passes but when you are behind, it's the only pass you can throw. it didn't work but i don't think he had a whole a lot of choices. john: i want to ask about a theory floated to me by a pretty smart republican. he said the reason trump said this thing today was to signal to republicans get ted cruz out of the race. race,re he stays in the the more i'm going to train this on another republican. force him out and i will start saying the stuff about the clintons. al: i think he will. they already have. ted cruz has to make a decision

now. ted cruz went in thinking i may not win but i will be more well-positioned for next time. suddenly you win a couple and you think it could be my year. i'm sure he hasn't given up those huge or thoughts but to stay and might be bad for him. i'm sure trump wants him out and i'm sure that's what he is going to tell republicans. but he will focus on hillary clinton. people talk about can trump change? no. he hasn't changed in 45 years and he's not going to change now. mark: thank you. coming up some of bernie sanders senior advisor, we are going to ask him where re-think stands after this quick break. ♪

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closing soon. our next guest will certainly be watching. joining us now from our washington bureau, the senior strategist for bernie sanders, tad devine. woulde a sense of what it mean for your campaign, if bernie sanders were to pull off what would be considered an upset by most standards? john, i think it is a big night. it is a demonstration that bernie's message resonates in a place like indiana. demonstrationa this campaign is focusing on. we will keep talking to voters all the way through the end. at this juncture, you would think the party would begin to coalesce around hillary clinton, given what her campaign says is an insurmountable lead. it is we win in indiana, clearly not coalescing around

her, and that means we have a lot of opportunity in the weeks ahead. mark: if you look at the areming races in kentucky, there any disputes between clinton and sanders on the coal industry? hillary and some of the rhetoric she has used has gotten in trouble with voters there. we saw in the incident that happened yesterday. but i think they both aspire to deal with this issue. i think bernie's plans are more ambitious, in terms of opposing a carbon tax. but those could go toward helping train workers in the coal industry. that is where a lot of that money will go towards. it is not in the goal of trying to deal with it, bernie is ambitious when it comes to that goal, i think it is fair to say. poweris this american

faster than she is? he is determined to make sure that if those changes are made, whether in the industry or other parts of our economy, those with profited enormously, whether the banking industry, wall street, the pharmaceutical industries, the ones that bailout the middle class, instead of being bailed out by them. that is the difference between bernie and every candidate. bernie sanders will and on june 8 behind hillary clinton, by more pledged delegates than hillary clinton, and behind yet,k obama in 2008, and in 2008, hillary clinton, even though she was closer, did not contest the convention in denver. she immediately said she would support obama, and went to denver and nominated.

why does bernie sanders feel entitled or like it is appropriate to wage a contested convention, when he is in a weaker position, relative to her, then she was in position to obama in 2008? -- isecause 2016 was very very different than 2008. i think he is right in wanting to do this, to do the right thing for the democratic party. they want the strongest candidate that can beat trump in the general election. right now, he is committed to letting everyone though. his participation in this process helps the democratic party enormously. we want to register loads of young people in california, which will be good for the democratic party. we have seen in the polling, democrats saying they want bernie sanders to stay in this thing all the way through the convention. todayew york times" mention the value -- his value

to the democratic party. hopefully, we will have a debate on issues. you think a contested democratic convention, and the degree of disunity, while republicans are not now it looks going to have a contested convention, will that be good for the democratic party? do, in 1988, i was a convention manager for michael dukakis in atlanta. we left atlanta with a 17 point lead. i think it all depends on how you handle it between now and then. i think we can use that as an example of campaigns that have differences, worked out their differences, and left the convention with them -- with an enormously. mark: we responsible for managing rob loew in atlanta? [laughter] no i wasn't.

i have never seen a guy put makeup on before. if bernie sanders is the nominee, what role would hillary clinton play the convention? tad: i don't want to speculate on that. we are going to work really hard between now and the end of voting. we think bernie's participation in this is very good and valuable for the democratic already. -- party. those are the kinds of things here -- he is going to talk about. john: tad devine, thank you for coming in. always good to have you here. who hasp, the guy written the book about brokered conventions, or at least, a book. it is a novel, but, whatever. after this. ♪

mark: mitt romney's campaign in 2012, this year, he is giving everyone advised the atwitter. the perfect combination of smart and snort. with of the strategic media that worked for the republican race, and the owner of the upcoming novel, "the innocent have nothing to fear: a novel." stuart joins us from los angeles. trump -- you see a coalescing around him, more people like chris christie saying the party needs unify? stuart: i would expect so.

ithink it is regrettable, but think you would see more of an effort to do that. party, those in the party who do not think donald trump should be representative of the party will continue to fight all the way to the convention. he is certainly the most unpredictable candidate that we have had. a guy, who today on election, is father,about ted cruz's and the oswald and kennedy conspiracies. anything can happen. i would fight all the way. john: what would that mean? what are the plausible options for never trump? you actually do between now and the convention to stop him from being the nominee? stuart: there are two levels to that, where the boat accounts are, the delegate counts. and until he gets to a hard 1237

, he does not have the votes to get the nominee. readinge is still a , those whoconvention don't believe that donald trump should be the nominee should continue to oppose them. this is someone who is not even released one year of his taxes, which is pretty extraordinary, considering he is so shameless about everything. that aret in his taxes so embarrassing and thinks that disqualifies them? that is the way it should go. when you say continue to oppose them, what do you mean, speak out against them? tweet? what tangible forms with the opposition take? of the above, contain and articulate in any form you have available of why donald trump should not represent the republican party, and what it would mean to the republican party, and more portly, for the country.

had someone, the nominee of a major party, unfit to sit in charge of a national command structure. trump is clearly unfit to be on top of the national command structure. and try to wrap him around some smart and capable people, but it really comes down to him. nothing is going to change about that. mark: you have long told us there is nothing more bitter than the campaigners and consultants. many have gone to work for trump, how much pressure is there now within your community, for strategists not to work for the trump campaign? stuart: i do not know the answer to that, because no one ever calls me. [laughter] they know i am against trump. at rollinsyou look or manifold? look, i have nothing but

positive things to say about them, only because when i was coming up, they were so nice to me. and there was nothing in it for them. actively inre not the political consulting business anymore, they have gone on to bigger and better things, frankly. they are coming back into it to help donald trump. what do you think they see that you don't? stuart: i think that they miss andgame, and they see that hope that they can have an impact on somebody. these are two people who would treat donald trump as ap or -- peer, not be intimidated by him. he tends to be around people whose qualifications are how loudly they can say yes to donald trump. they will not do that. i think that is good if you're a

donald trump person, but also good in general, because donald trump needs to be surrounded by people who tell them the truth. these guys will tell him the truth, which is good, but i don't think that they see in donald trump some great savior. theynk it is more because like being a part of politics, this is the biggest game, and they have a shot here. think you so much, stuart stevens in california. oning up, the inside scoop reporters who cover donald trump in his campaign. if you're joining us in washington dc, you can listen to us on the radio radio at 99.1 fm. we will be right back. ♪

john: some millennials, here to provide you with your daily dose of trump. katy tur joins us from trump , good to see all of you. i am going to start with katy because she is outside the building. then we will bring the conversation back inside the building. how does trump feel about everything that has occurred in this crazy day. i understand you're talking to rollins on the phone, tell us about that. donaldumber one, the trump campaign is feeling extraordinarily good today, especially with the bat 50 point lead in that abc poll that came out yesterday. also, with of the anecdotal and that evidence, reporters indiana polling sites saying

there are seeing overwhelming response to donald trump over ted cruz, even in places where you think ted cruz would do better. the statement the trump campaign put out against cruz today cruzg this proves that ted does not have the temperament to be president. i think those words are interesting, coming from trump himself, considering those are the words that are often times it used against him. the campaignne, was entertained by the idea of using it against ted cruz. number two, at rollins i just spoke to on the phone, asked one why to join the super pac, told me it is time to come together as a party, fill in the gaps that the trump campaign might have. he said he was a doubter at first, but has come around to the campaign and wants to fund he believes because they will be facing a $1 billion campaign with hillary clinton. the process they have in place right now, just is not going to be enough, or the money they

have right now, may not be enough to beat her. huckabee backing others who did not go on to win, and he said that he does not necessarily back the winners, but those who he believes in. ofhas had 50 years experience in this business, this campaigning business, and he has thrown that out the window because so far, this season nothing has been predictable. all the predictions that happened wrong. he believes trump could pull it out. you have seen a lot of trump outrageous things. where would you put this last one, in context of business as usual, or something different about this? katy: we have not seen something like this for a while. he was kind of in control of himself the last couple of months.

we were not seeing as many conspiracy theory being floated, or outrageous attacks on people. this is not the craziest thing that he is ever done. mark: i would make it close to the top 10. jenna: i would say top five. and the timing of this, he is about to call himself the presumptive nominee and should be reaching out to the party. 19% of republicans say they will vote for hillary clinton, 35% say they will not back donald trump. and he has a 15 point lead in indiana, and he is picking a fight over the death, the murder of jfk. john: it is a rather extraordinary thing. is this race over of trump wins tonight? ,s it your view that cruz basically, the never trump

movement is over? jenna: it is becoming more and more impossible to stop him. this has been an incredible election, so anything can happen. i think the trump campaign is taking the attitude of, they have been caught off guard before, not quite expecting the delegates scramble that we have seen the last few weeks. i think they will continue to play every primary, and make sure they will hit that magic sure they areke not surprised by anything before the convention. look at whereme, he has gotten. it would be nearly impossible for anyone else 2-d thrown him at this point. mark: i was going to ask you if you thought oswald acted alone, or with the help of one of the parents of the candidates. but instead, i will ask you this. do you get the sense that the turmoil between cory lewandowski

general sense, a of new people coming in, others being fired, is that still a work in progress? i think it has settled down to a degree, but is still a work in progress. i think we have seen more of cory lately on the road, he has been more visual the last tuesday he was talking to reporters. -- the other was behind the scenes. give stocklly answers, saying everything is fine. but it is not necessarily the most believable. it is not as tense as it was a few weeks ago, they are settling into their roles, to a degree. and if they get to 1237

maniford's job is perhaps not as important. couldry lewandowski perhaps he has stock rise again, because he is the one who is been there. he has allowed trump to act as he is acted this entire time. i think those outrageous statements about rafael cruzing the candidate to be himself. john: you have covered many in this cycle. how quickly do you think of trump wins decisively tonight, how many, which of those people, and how quickly will they end up coming out publicly saying they are for trump? mike: i think it will be a wild. out of coming the race before endorse him or passively endorse him. earlier point,n that is going to be the task of the next few months to get the party behind the likely nominee

of donald trump. there has sthe idge. to one stop trump donor who says he will vote for hillary clinton, that will be on bloomberg politics and a little bit. mark: coming out publicly? sayinges, and priebus you will not get involved tonight, no matter what the results are. not involved tonight, but maybe eventually? if trump winsn all 57 delegates tonight in indiana, he will not take it off the table. mark: will the trump mpaign have them continue to campaign as t s a special case, and the on orer things? jenna: we will have to wait and see. we were not expecting him to campaign quite as heavily as he did in indiana. did as much in indiana

as almost any other state. mike: two rallies every day, almost three. just his attitude, another month to go, why leave anything on the table. travel -- do a when a rally, keep more staffers on the ground. just so there is no question about the convention. john: will click on money, you mentioned at rollins raising trump become, despite saying he is a self -funder, willie eventually say forget it, i will throw my arms around the super pac system and all in?n ashton mark -- katy: yes, i do. yes, is an indication that they will do that.

it will be an expensive the seaso e against hillary clinton. that $1 billion number is pretty on the money. the republican establishment believes they will be fundraising for donald trump, and he will be taking that money. -- katy tur, thank you, jenna johnson, thank you, mike bender, thank you. ♪

results on a website tonight, for now, scion art. ♪

mark: i am mark crumpton, you are watching "bloomberg west." an american servicemen killed in iraq is identified as a navy seal. they say he was killed during an attack by the a lot -- islamic

forces inraqi-kurdish modal. a resolution, demanding medical personnel and hospitals be protected against violence and attacks. something is deeply wrong. hollow tons are parents bearing their children, and communities ready to collapse. least 20 people were killed in syria today, when rocket fire struck a maternity hospital in a government-held section of aleppo. this may be ted cruz's last stand. -- ift today in indiana he loses today in indiana, it could make donald trump all but unstoppable. the feetald trump could increase the chances of a contested convention ily