♪ announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." the primaries in indiana, donald trump has won the nomination. ted cruz has dropped out as well as john kasich. cruz, i don'tted know if he likes me or if he doesn't like me, but he is one

hell of a competitor. he is one tough -- [applause] anald trump: he has got amazing future. he has got an amazing future. so i want to congratulate ted. we are going after hillary clinton. she will not be a great president. she will not be a good president. she will be a poor president. the democratic side, bernie sanders beat hillary clinton in indiana. joining me is mark halperin, the editor of bloomberg news and due respect"th all and also "the circus" which is on hiatus on showtime. to 3000o bring you up feet, in a sense, to look at this. you start early, you do it every day, you talk to every body, you are in the process of writing a book and doing stuff, what does

it look like, this political season, to you? well, i like and respect hillary clinton, and i like would likep, and i either of them to win. this doesn't make me a unicorn. we are in a polarized country and now we have two polarized candidates. in the case of hillary clinton, she is still fighting bernie sanders and she is dealing with somewhat of a divided party, although i expect her party will be somewhat more united. for the first time since the founding of the republic, the country is fundamentally unhappy with its direction and the country is now facing a choice and in some ways there are two very different people, and in some ways, to people who are both new yorkers. i will say they are evenly matched, but two world-famous people, not just in the united

states, but world-famous people. both of them are extraordinarily competitive and both of them each believe that the other would be not just a bad president, but a disastrous president. charlie: what she do for his party -- her party that he does for his party? mark: he can't win without achieving a lot of things. charlie: we saw him praising ted cruz. that's right, praising ted cruz, i been talking about women and bringing out his wife and his daughter. you know, it is very hard to find anyone in the clinton camp who is worried about losing this race except bill and hillary clinton, and they are warriors. charlie: that is what they do. mark: that's right, they looked down on donald trump. they think he is a joke. charlie: does most of the political community feel that way? mark: just to finish a thought,

they looked down at him, and that is a jeb bush spot. right? ofthere are a lot republicans, and we are seeing it today, they say they will not vote for him, a main of vote for her but they won't vote for him, he think he is a disgrace, that he is a bad person, he would be a bad president. charlie: there are people who say that his language is not accustomed to politics. of her body,ing people associated with politics in the last week, and i asked him what they think about trump and what makes him qualified? there are a lot of answers and there are a lot of things that he has said and done that makes him disqualified. he is not going to be able to erase those things. if he is going to win, he is going to have to convince people to overlook those things. i haven't met a trump supporter this year who says he is perfect. a lot of people don't like the crude things he says.

a lot of people don't like his position, but they think he can change things, fundamentally change things. you know, i joke all the time that there are a lot of reasons that trump has succeeded, but one of the reasons that he has succeeded is that up for the last two years, it would be hillary clinton or jeb bush and when the country is looking like fundamental change, nothing says fun little change like bush and teppedn, so if trump s into that, he couldn't have been luckier. his main opponent was a bush and clinton. this country was just not interested. as barbara bush would say, aren't there other families in america? the delicious irony of this is that we would turn away from two political brand names to a business brand name. charlie: hillary clinton.

tell me about this campaign and about her and about what we saw as a result of the challenge from bernie sanders. it highlighted the lack of enthusiasm for her in some parts of the party, younger people, people on the far left, some people who are more classically liberal, white voters, and it is difficult for her to define what she stands for. you know, both you and i both know that in private she is not only just an interested and engaged in person, but she is passionate about engaging in helping people in the world. there is no doubt, for her i think that may be the case is the gap between the public and the private is even wider than al gore and mitt romney who were frustrated in trying to convey with who they were in public as they were in private. she is doing what the family playbook says to do.

focus on the election in front of you. that she isonfident going to be the nominee. she is a little annoyed at what bernie sanders is putting her through, but she has a fair degree of confidence that she will win this and i believe that she is thinking a lot about what it means to be president. the challenge, if her team is right -- charlie: meaning if she doesn't want to do something, be something, say something -- mark: john heilemann and i said that we were wondering who would be her cabinet and plan her transmission -- her transition. she is thinking about it. again, if her team is right, and one of these people is going to be president, if her team is right that this is going to be relatively easy, that she will be the next president, she will have to worry about this process and what her five months will do for her ability to recover and get things done and make the job worth this. the argument goes that

to give asepared good as they receive and that they are armed and ready. mark: they are way more prepared. they have opposition research, they have thoughts about how to do it, they put out a very compelling video today, a web video, which is basically a montage of donald trump's rivals, like mitt romney, that say bad things about him. it is very deftly done. we will see if they will let trump dominate the conversation. they will say, we saw what he did with republicans. the dialogue in the news coverage is about what he said about the other republicans. charlie: on the other hand, i have heard people say that the general election would determine on whether it is a referendum on him or a referendum on her. if it is a referendum on her, he wins, if it is a referendum on

him, she wins. mark: it won't be that clean, right? an incumbent, it is not a clean referendum. i think she will try to disqualify him as unacceptable and he will try to disqualify her as corrupt and woman change. charlie: crooked. crooked, butrk: will make change. charlie: could trump have won this without the spectacle of trump? mark: maybe if you hadn't been able to micromanage him, yeah, he would be in a better position. charlie: would that be who he is? mark: i will have to tell you and you will have to see if you agree, he is one of the most interesting and hard to understand people i have ever met. charlie: he is a giant who is a great winner. he has convinced everybody -- mark: it would be great because

if he could be sitting here with us and running through the 10 against mistakes he has run in the campaign and ask him why he made them and if he thought they were mistakes, i don't know what he would say. charlie: here is what would happen, if he were sitting here, it would be an interesting conversation, and he wouldn't be , dealing and spectacle, he wouldn't be doing these self-described characterizations. he would say that ted cruz made this mistake, i might not have done this, that in the end it did bother me because it's something else happened. it is a kind of analysis, well -- the fight look at between him and megyn kelly on fox news. he said that he was misinterpreted by saying that phrase "blood coming out from wherever." charlie: you think he did it on purpose? mark: yeah, i think he did it on purpose. but again, he stood up to fox news and he proved that he was

the biggest kid on the block, that he was willing to make roger ailes and rupert murdoch dance to his tune. and it show -- charlie: had you heard him talk like that? murdochg to make rupert and roger ailes, they don't have all of the power in the world, that is my intent, and this is my means of doing it -- mark: based on the totality of what i know, that is what i think is his thinking. this are so many things in situation that are unprecedented and to have him go to a rally and have him attack fox news and have people boo fox news. charlie: it helps people think that the establishment had let them down. his -- mark:hat and i think his general strength

is standing up to fox news, that conveyed strength. madeie: the argument is that he has got a long way to go and democrats are really because they are confident in latinos, the young, and that burden is too much and whatever he gained in terms of white males is not enough. in the primaries and on one-on-one, he did better in places like greenwich. demographicss a and the electoral college. to 70, 271. he has got to do better than that. 271.0, you have got to do better than that. white do well with

married women? can he reach out to these other groups? it is the strongest anchor, the strongest foundation, of the clinton's world belief that trump cannot win and that he cannot improve with these other groups. latinos, single women, younger women. notion he could improve. i think it is silly to underestimate trump. i also believe that he could win this election with the country viewing him unfavorably. charlie: he is 15 points ahead in some polls, down in 10 polls. up a i think she will run big score in many liberal states. on cablee other day

television that i thought trump could make her have to compete to win california. i didn't say the i thought he would win -- charlie: why did you say that? mark: because i look at arnold schwarzenegger. has said in sensitive things regarding women, he has been told he was unqualified, yet he had extraordinary appeal to young women and african-americans and hispanics and these are traits that trump shares and he won. charlie: one difference is that arnolder said that schwarzenegger is not the best politician you have ever seen, t about can say tha donald trump. your judgment of the skills of a master? mark: a first-time candidate, with a tiny staff of about one dozen people, wins the republican nomination? i talked to one of the smartest republicans i know today and i said, and where do you rank that achievement in our careers in the last 30 years, where do you

rank that achievement in presidential politics? he agreed with me with the possible exception of president obama's fundraising. one of the most remarkable things that you or he has seen in politics in that -- mark: trump became the nominee, that was unfathomable. categories,ee vice president, someonbody running for a second time, and jeb bush. we had that a couple of cycles ago and trump, again, the reason i say this is an incredible nonevement is that he has of the top level presidential campaign exteriors. charlie: but can he win? be thegain, you could most anti-trump person in the world, you cannot designy --

charlie: here's what i think and but me if i am wrong, you know the general and ease of the direction of the country. mark: regular politicians can't change it. charlie: and establishments can't change it and institutions can't change it. what is interesting about it is whether somebody or else could have tapped into it the way he has tapped into it. i mean everybody knows that this is not a new idea. you know, we understand that there is a great feeling about what is happening in the middle people are very much upset about gridlock and we understand that there is after 2008 a real disenchantment with at a feeling that the economic future of the country has been, in a sense, in some cases, fixed. true, but it took a man with extraordinary media skills, and again, it was a very

weak field. this republican field was so weak. charlie: who might have been him? never mind who might have ran, who might have beaten him? --k: not me, i don't think herlie: you had john kasich, was a very popular governor, you've got a senator, you've got people who are young and have a vision of the future -- mark: on paper it very strong, but i said that from the beginning that each of them was not perfect, they all have flaws, they all have flaws, and the thing about trump is -- charlie: he pointed them out. mark: he pointed them out and he is not encumbered by what the others were encumbered by. there are a lot of people at their like lindsey graham that believe this could be a disaster for them. a disaster. john boehner, another. yeah, it could be.

i believe that if you were betting on any democrat because of the demographics, i believe that she is way ahead today, i believe that something will have to -- trump will have to be really almost flawless to win, she will have to make mistakes, but those who say he can't win, i think they're just wrong, and i think it is to soon to say what kind of general election oondidate he will be -- too s to say what kind of general election candidate he will be. charlie: thank you for coming. mark: ok, thank you, charlie. charlie: mark halperin, of "with all due respect" on bloomberg politics. stay with us. ♪

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charlie: mark maren is here and opposed of the popular podcast "wtf with mark marron." of the semist autobiographical show "marron." here is a look at the new season. ♪ mark: all right, everybody, before we get to today's interview, i think it is time to address the pink elephant in the

room. or seenyou have read stuff about me on the internet, on reddit, on twitter, or you , so itn the blog sphere is time to set the record straight. several months ago, i started .sing pain medication pharmaceuticals can become a slippery slope. 16 years of sobriety down the drain. but i will say this, i nipped it in the bud, water under the bridge, no foul. ok? marron isnow, mark doing just fine. charlie: mark maron is doing

just fine and he is back at this table. mark: it doesn't look good. i don't want anyone to panic. charlie: there are two things here, number one, what happened? mark: at the end of the last season, i decided to relapse on painkiller. charlie: did you really relapse? are you in pain? no, it is a fake show, i didn't really. a decided we should have fairly clear and dean. and for some reason i thought that having me on the floor babbling during the big opportunity that i had just blown hosting a talk show because i am high on all to tote -- high on oxycodone seemed like a good place to leave it off for me.

the real challenge became when we got renewed and wanted to do more shows and i did know what we would do and i didn't want to go back to the world we had established because i had sort of done it and done my whole life that way and i didn't want to be redundant and it sort of hit me all that once and we figured that he would be out y all year and then he would come back and get clean and then make a big decision about his future, so it has a nice narrative arc. charlie: do you think they are buying into that this is in fact a reflection of his life or are they simply saying, he has created this character who has nothing to do with him at this stage? mark: i think what they know about me and what they have been watching on this show in what they know about the podcast is that the stories are based on realities. charlie: your real life is a little bit of the same? mark: sure, but this is a

departure. i think people watching the last three seasons of people who know me know that i am sober and i am in recovery and a know that this can happen and as a sober guy, this is what happens. you see this happen. you have these dudes who have won he or 25 years and they get an injury and they get prescribed painkillers and they slip or else there is the other way were somebody who is 25 years sober who says, they are not an alcoholic anymore, and one and they are gone. charlie: there is the idea that it cannot happen to me and it changes very quickly. mark: it is sort of a cautionary tale and it was nice to deliver it fictionally. character,u had this you, who you could build on in the beginning and now you are free to do whatever, poetic license to do whatever you want. mark: it was great. it was great. it was nice for the writers and

then you had a little system going and now that is gone. it was ambitious for the budget that we were given and we were given almost creative -- almost complete creative freedom. shows and ao week and i think everyone is very proud of this season. it is something that is very unique for our show and the comedy works. charlie: what else can you tell us about it without giving anything away? mark: there are some interesting back stories around the show. when i go into rehab, there is the joke that rehab would be able to have this one there. there is a guy who was actually my sponsor and he said that it is very common that everyone in rehab is about 20 to 25 years old. so i am this old man surrounded by kids. so we had this idea that there is a character that is a spoiled, white, rap kid.

it is like tom hanks's son. there was little controversy behind this, he is a white kid with addiction problems and he is a wrapper. -- rapper. donered him and he hadn't a lot of acting recently and he is basically playing himself and also, i am in recovery. he was just new to recovery and there is a real stuff going on and he played this character for three episodes and it was really kind of exciting. charlie: describe your style of interview. mark: i just need to know some things. i would like it to go as freely as possible. i just have a general sense of who the person is. i don't want to dismiss major achievements. like if i am talking to somebody who has cured cancer. [laughter] i want to recognize it. [laughter] -- cured cancer. i want to recognize it. [laughter] charlie: i would not like to

recognize that you cured cancer. [laughter] i was helped prepare someone who is very good but i would say to him, it you know, here is what i want you to do. you read all this stuff. forget all that. here is what you do. you sit at your own computer and you think about who this is and what you want to know. that is where you start. start with an intuitive sense of who is this guy and what do i want to know about him? mark: right, in a broad sense. charlie: rather than putting up a question of, you know, there was this conflict and then there was this thing, like regurgitating stories. mark: what do i want to know? charlie: you had 700 episodes. that isat's right, and an old journalistic trick, i have been told in the past before i did my podcast that you want to know what you are looking for in the answer, and i

can't stand that. charlie: i think there are two points of view on that, personally, and number one is you do want to know enough. you always say, you don't want to read anything. i need to know something. talkers.are larry is a guy who says why, when, really. [laughter] charlie: but you are more like me. you really want to know, what makes this person take -- tick? mark: when you can hear the qs, where you are in the middle of a conversation, and then it goes this other way, that is exciting because then nobody knows what is going to happen. -- when you hear the ques, middle of ae in the conversation and then it goes the other way, that is exciting because then nobody knows what is going to happen. a list: i actually keep

of things because mainly you don't want to miss the bit about the doctor who cured cancer, you don't want forget, you want to make sure you remember that. mark: you don't want to be the guy driving away saying, i forgot about the oscar. [laughter] aboute: you want to know you how of all people could do it. mark: yes, that could be an important conversation. you will probably have that one for me. that is the level you are operating in. charlie: how close are you to louis ck? mark: we are very close. charlie: do you have a comedic history? mark: yes, we are good friends. we were preparing a podcast and we are very long and deep friends and i was just on the 700th episode and he came by to talk about the creation of "horus and pete -- "horace and pete."

charlie: i just did one hour with him and he is just wonderful. mark: yes, he is just great. he is wonderful to talk to. charlie: it is deeply ingrained in him. mark: he loves to pick good role models. have some practical problem about, you know, his car breaking down and he would somehow analogize that to an issue about teddy roosevelt, so he is very good like that. [laughter] mark: exactly, he elevates things. but he is a very engaged and brilliant guy. charlie: have you ever thought about ending it? mark: you mean, killing myself? [laughter] charlie: no. that, i interested in would say, have you ever thought about killing yourself? no, i mean about the podcast. is it your life? is that the thing that brings you, sort of a mission? i don't knowell,

how you feel about it, but i get a little twitchy when i talk to people. maybe the same for you, but is is the deepest relationship i have for one hour. charlie: i don't know if i want to go there. mark: i have a girlfriend and we have a deep relationship that i don't think you can know anybody this deeply in one hour. yes, you can have a wife and her husband here and people talking but you have a license to hear about them and it is because it is expected. too, and it ist, always an amazing feeling. i don't know about you, but sometimes i have conversations and i think, i should give that guy or calling hangout, and then i think, i don't know if that is part of my job. i think people always

ask, do the people you have on the air become your friends? does and ines it some cases it doesn't, but i think it has a lot to do with proximity in a lot of cases. i think i would prefer to have a few friends. i never know what my role is. when you have a big star over, you think, we along well, and that we should go to lunch, and then i think, what am i thinking? [laughter] charlie: one of my credit to do if i have lunch -- what are we going to do if we go out and have lunch? [laughter] [indiscernible] , hehe said to me afterwards said, i have been watching you, rose. i said, what do you mean? are on tv, you are on broadcast. at the end of the taping, i said, are you going to watch

this? and he said, no, i just did it. so what is the role of your podcast in social media? for example, david axelrod has a popular podcast. mark: it is a wild frontier right now and everyone has access to the technology. it is very easy and you can post it very easily that like everything else, there are niche markets and we do things that apply to our lives but also there are podcasts that are very niche. i don't know how long they will the good ones will find their way. charlie: did you get into this because of word-of-mouth? mark: well, that is sort of what happened. charlie: a little bit of water cooler talk? mark: a little bit. how long ago did you interview manson? charlie: that was when i first 1985.d, like 1984,

mark: you should go back and interview him. charlie: every year there is some new story. mark: i heard that one of his girls was up for parole. charlie: yeah. mark: that would be an interesting interview, that would be intense. charlie: why do you go to san quentin and talk to him? would you do it? would you like to do it? would you be interested in it? mark: yes, i would. he is an old which. charlie: he is more than that. maybe you and i differ, but i want to reach out to people and find them and say, how about let's do this? you are so casual about it. mark: manson is sort of a difficult get, charlie. albert brooks is -- charlie: i do, too. mark: he may be more difficult

to get than early mansion -- then charlie manson. charlie: are you being serious now? mark: it is been difficult. when i ask somebody --t, they say, one hour, and they say, 15 minutes, and i ask for one hour, and they say they can't talk about anything interesting a one hour, but i said, trust me. mark: yes, just say you're in control. charlie: and the people can be honest, i -- do -- not -- want -- 2 -- talk -- about it. mark: do you ever have people say, i don't want that in their? charlie: -- there? charlie: they may say it is

boring, you can talk about whatever you want to, -- you have got it in the can, has anyone ever said, can you not run that part? charlie: sure, and i would make a decision based on whether i thought it was an interesting part. mark: do you have to talk to them a little bit? charlie: it is your decision. my name is on the door. [laughter] oddly, when people ask for that, it is always about what they said about somebody else. charlie: that's right, you look at it, and they say, my wife's mother is going to be really, really bothered by this. and you say -- mark: tough luck. again, when i was a kid, i did all of these terrible things that i got away with them, i am not going to say, no. they always complied.

there was 1 -- charlie: yes, if it is journalistically relevant i leave it in. mark: watch your mouth next time. [laughter] charlie: here it is from "maron." mark: there she is. i've got some good news from you. i know it you are thinking but you are wrong. funny, icited, i feel feel talented. don't i seem better? to be pickygoing anymore. i will take anything. you can put me on one of those dumb shows where i talk about other dumb shows or you can get me on this one where -- >> no, no, no, we are not going to do this again, i am not going to do this again. mark: what? i am not having this were you

come in every couple of weeks. i fired you. mark: i fire you, you don't fire me! [laughter] charlie: is that 100% scripted? little lose,s a but yeah, we do usually work from mostly scripted. charlie: by you or other writers? mark: we break story together like breaking bread, you know? of thedeas for the arc season and then we get into a we flesh thosehen stories out. we have all these folks on the writing team along with myself. i am glad you remembered all of the names. mark: they do a great job. it is a very exciting process.

i bet there is a lot of sitting. sitting.re is a lot of there are five or six guys and then i say, come on, there has got to be something and then you just get some movement and it is weird and a one brain kind of thing that happens. charlie: what has been the most painful place for you to go that became part of this show? mark: last season when i fictionalized doing a podcast with my ex-wife who i haven't talked to in years and just sort of bringing up, because there were flashbacks in the episode where i actually had to shave my mustache to play it, and showing the end of the relationship of the marriage, and it got pretty hairy. did something good. i feel like i got closure. i'm sure she sees it differently. [laughter] like i got closure

and i'm sure she sees it as, why does he have to keep reading this up? charlie: it was over. it was a long time ago. we have gone on with their lives. mark: yes, that is what she would be saying. google her name, i am very far, perhaps three or four pages away. she would like to move that down in the google search. charlie: she would probably prefer that we not talk about it, too. is doing abut she wonderful thing, she is a writer and a mother and i am sure she is doing great. charlie: what is the best thing that could happen to you? mark: that is an interesting question. the best thing that could happen to me? content andlly feel happy enough to not do anything. charlie: that is interesting you say that because somebody you died and there was a good

friend of him and my friend talk to him when he was dying and, you know, he said, what do you regret? and he said, i regret not just being quiet. and the word he used was quiet. you know? mark: learning how to do that. quiet and having silence and the absence of frenzy. i think there is something to that. i don't feel that yet. i don't feel that sense. i asked you what it is you most want to do? mark: a peabody would be nice, too. [laughter] mark: they are never going to give me one. charlie: why not? mark: i don't know. of the it is because language. we sort of gave up on the whole idea of it. i mean, i don't know what i have to do. charlie: i won one a couple of years ago. mark: i had the president in my

house. the president came over. charlie: it is not the president they came into your house it is what comes out of the president. mark: did you hear that interview? charlie: yes, it was damn good. [laughter] mark: i think it is the cursing. that is why it is called "wtf." so i would want peace of mind and a peabody. charlie: how about being rich? mark: i feel like i am earning an honest living, not a show business earning. i partner and i work hard on the podcast and we are earning from that and the thing on the tv that is not so huge that it is ridiculous. you know, i'm saving money. charlie: do you spend money? mark: i don't spend money. i live in a two-bedroom house. i just get inside he -- get anxiety from thinking about more bedrooms. charlie: are you in a good relationship?

a painter.dating "maron" season four of errors this week. mark: i feel like i should say her name, sarah cain. charlie: sarah cain? like kane? c-a-i-n,ah cain, s-a-r-a-h. sarah cain. everyone is going to google her name. see you.it is great to we will be back after this. ♪

♪ sara blakely is here, she is the founder of spanx. at market value is estimated 750 million dollars. she came up with the idea at 29 while selling fax machines door-to-door. she became one of the youngest female self-made billionaires in the world and remains the sole owner of the company and has never used traditional advertising source ought outside investments. she is also part of the giving havee and i am pleased to her at this table for the first time, although we have talked many times before. sara: thank you so much.

the minute i sat down, this is my dining room table in my childhood. myelt like i am prepared for dad asking me about my homework, you know? this brought back memories to him interviewing me at the room table. charlie: i didn't know much until we talked before the interview. men andagues, both women, but certainly the women i work with in the morning, were certainly dumbfounded that i didn't know anything about spanx. how did this happen? it happened as me as a frustrated consumer. i had never taken a business class, i just simply couldn't figure out what to wear under my own white pants. i stumbled upon a solution and cut the feet out of my own

control top pantyhose and put them on under my pants and was able to wear a great open toed shoe because of it and that doht, i was only able to this one time, charlie, and i went home and i said, i've got to keep this product comfortably below the knee and i've got to fill the void between traditional underwear and girdles that were too heavy duty and it wasn't a great canvas for women in clothes. so it filled this lane that became a perfect canvas. charlie: was it immediately successful? it was, but it took me two years of hearing no to get it made. i cold called all the manufacturing plants and bake them to help me make the product. them -- andy of begged them to help me make

the product. charlie: many of them said they wouldn't do it? at first, and i said that i just want your material and make a new type of undergarment with your material and people aren't even going to see it. was like, no one will buy that or we don't understand that and the one thing i thought was so interesting was i wasn't talking to any women, charlie, in the journey. charlie: it was a man, and what would they know? sara: and then it dawned on me that this is perhaps why undergarments are so uncomfortable. is there a woman in this land? charlie: what do they do? they are formfitting? sara: yes, so it allows you just to wear your clothes. if you have a great piece of art, the paint is your clothing and spanx is the canvas. you have to have the right canvas for the artwork in the

painting to come together, and as women, we have had really uncomfortable options. i joke that there was traditional clothing wear, and then there was the thong that put us exactly where we have been trying to get out of, so i was thinking, this is not working. spanx provided comfortable solutions for women that let the sort ofreally work and fabrics, silks, certain jerseys, lighter colors, women had just been trained that we couldn't wear them. i mean, the models in the magazines were all being airbrushed with all of the kinds of smoke and mirrors and then you get home with a pair of white pants and stare at them and wonder, what am i supposed to wear under this? charlie: what happened with oprah? sara: oprah told the world about me. i sent her a gift passed get -- gift basket of them with a note and then i got a note back one

week later saying that oprah chose spanx as her favorite product of the year. my product was on the show and they came to atlanta and on the my favorite things show they don't usually have guests they just usually have products, but they told me that oprah liked it so much, can we film you in atlanta? showed up in all my apartment in atlanta, there were like, 10 of them, a all had clipboards, and they said, we want to see your in your headquarters. i was like, you are here! [laughter] sara: they also talked about a staff meeting and i said, hold on a minute, so i called all of thisiends and i call woman, connie, at mailboxes etc. down the street and we all sat in a historical and so there was my staff meeting for the oprah show. charlie: so now you have over 200 people working for you? sara: yes, over 200. charlie: 27 are male?

sara: ok! [laughter] charlie: so it is clearly a success. people are speaking about it, people like the president's wife, the first lady, other people have talked proudly about wearing them and what it means to them. that is what made you. where are you going now? going now is am that first of all, i understand fit and i understand how to iniver comfort plus results an industry that is really merely focused on how we look and not how we feel. i am completely inspired to take invent andpanx and keep inventing better solutions for women and i've got a long list of them, charlie. charlie: give me an example. sara: heels. shoes are so uncomfortable. charlie: they so are.

sara: iowa where he heels and they are so recoverable. that is on my list -- i am wearing high heels and they are so uncomfortable. that is on my list. charlie: what is your distribution list? sara: we are in 60 countries and we have bulk of our distribution in five or six countries, that we are widely distributed and women everywhere have the same reaction to the brand. charlie: our salespeople and organizational people making sure that the product is made right rather than all of these designers and things like that? because it seems to me that that is what you do. sara: i read a quote from elon musk the other day about how building a company is like building a cake, you have to have all of the ingredients. i think it is a balance of how much talent you have and what part of the organization you are in.

i would say we are very heavy on the product development side and the marketing side. charlie: warren buffett is also a fan of yours. sara: yes, yes. charlie: he likes people like you, people who start their own business. suggest that you join the giving pledge, which you have done. sara: yes, i have. charlie: what does that mean for you? honor and ia great have so much gratitude for being a woman born in this place and time in this country and i feel that the world will be a better place if women are better utilized on the planet and have the opportunity to fill their know, my and so, you success, if i can pay it forward in a small way, to help further that, it is just the best feeling. charlie: is it possible, i mean, you are young woman, happily married, a family -- sara: four children, charlie,

for children under the age of four children under the age of six. charlie: is it possible that you will do something else or is this the only thing that turned you on in this stage? sara: that is such a great question i operate so much for my gut that i feel like i will know when i will know. i have no intention of it at the moment and the funny thing is is that right after i started the company, all of these people started asking me what my exit strategy was and i didn't even know what they were talking about because i had never taken a business class. i just remove her thinking, my exit strategy is that i want to exit the room looking good while i am doing it. that is my exit strategy. charlie: thank you for coming. sara: thank you for having me. much forthank you so

watching. we will see you next time. ♪

john: i'm john heilemann. mark: and i'm mark halperin. "with all due respect" to speaker paul ryan, we have a feeling a brand-new nickname is about to come your way. ♪ leading our show, a latebreaking old-fashioned political bombshell. speaker of the house paul ryan, in an interview a short while ago, said that he is in effect not on board the trump train. when cnn's jake cap or as the speaker if he would back trump in the general election he said , this. speaker ryan: to be perfectly candid, i am not ready to do that at this point. i am not there.