♪ announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." we begin tonight with politics. after a landslide victory in last night's indiana primary, donald trump has become the presumptive republican nominee. his wing forces the main opponent, senator ted cruz, to withdraw from the race. john kasich has also ended his head. , donaldictory speech trump vowed to go after hillary clinton. donald trump: ted cruz, i don't know if he likes me or if he doesn't like me, but he is one hell of a competitor. he is one tough -- a smart guy. [applause]

donald trump: he has got an amazing future. he has got an amazing future. so i want to congratulate ted. we are going after hillary clinton. she will not be a great president. she will not be a good president. she will be a poor president. democratic side, bernie sanders defeated hillary clinton in indiana, but despite the outset, hillary clinton maintains the significant lead needed to secure the nomination. joining me is mark heller -- mark halperin, the cohost of "with all due respect" and also "the circus" which is on hiatus on showtime. welcome. what i want to achieve here is some sense of bringing you up to 30,000 feet to look at this. you start early. you do it every day. you talk to everybody. you are in the process of writing a book. what does it look like, this political season to you?

mark: i like and respect hillary clinton. i like and respect donald trump. i think either of them could win. while that doesn't make me a unicorn, for people thinking itut the race, covering it, is very unusual. we are in a polarized country. we have to very polarizing candidates in the case of donald trump, dividing his own party. in the case of hillary clinton, still fighting bernie sanders. she is also dealing with somewhat of a divided party. although i suspect her party will be more united. for the first time since the founding of the protests -- the founding of the republic, the country is facing a choice to between in some ways, very different people. in some ways, to people who are both new yorkers. i won't say evenly matched, but two world-famous people. the unitedmous in

states, world-famous, both extraordinarily competitive, and both of them leave the other one would be not just a worse president, but disasters. hillary havedoes more with her party than he does with his party? mark: she does statistically. windonald trump cannot without achieving a lot of it. charlie: we see it beginning there was praising ted cruz. and with three women. mark: his wife and daughter-in-law, and his daughter. it is very hard to find anyone in the clinton camp worried about losing the race, except bill and hillary clinton. but that is because they worry. it is what they do. they looked down on donald trump. they think he's a joke. i think even unqualified. they think when voters make a serious choice -- charlie: does most of the political community feel that way?

some who donald trump decimated. mark: they don't think he's qualified. that is what jeb bush thought. there are a lot of republicans seeing it today, who are saying they will not vote for him, they may not vote for her, but they will not vote for him. they think he's a disgrace, and a bad person. that he would be bad for the republican brand. a lot of people are like that. charlie: and uses language he's not -- they are not accustomed to. asking have been everyone in politics, what is it about donald trump that you think is disqualifying to be the president? i've heard 15 different answers. there is overlap, but there is a lot of things he has said and done that smart people, people who care, that say is disqualifying. he will not be able to erase those things. if he's going to win and make it competitive, he will have to convince people to overlook those things. i have not met a trump supported this year who says he's perfect. a lot of them don't like the crude things he says.

but they see him as someone who will change things, fundamentally. that, all the time there's a lot of reasons why he has succeeded, but one reason is because for people like me set for two years, coming up to the selection, the nominees would be hillary clinton and jeb bush. arehe time when people looking for change, nothing says change more than a clinton bush election. trump has stepped up and says, if he wins, people will say this. he could not have been luckier. his main opponent was a bush, and his general election opponent was a clinton, and the country was not interested. as barbara bush herself said -- charlie: enough with dynasties. mark: there is a delicious irony. if donald trump wins, the country will have turned away from political brand names to a business brand name. not a new person on the national stage, but someone new to politics. charlie: hillary clinton. tell me about this campaign, and

about her. and about what we saw as a result of the challenge from bernie sanders. it highlighted the lack of enthusiasm for her in some parts of the party. younger people on the far left, some more classically liberal white voters. i think it highlighted her inability to define what she stands for. you and i both know in private, she's not only more engaging and interesting and funny, but a person who conveys her passion for helping people in the world. not just in america, but the world. her is no doubt, for think, that the gap between the public and private is even wider than for al gore and mitt romney, who famously failed to convey what they are really like in public. has done withhe the clinton family playbook says to do. focus on the election in front of you, don't look past it. she now is confident she will be

the nominee she's a little annoyed. at what the bernie sanders team is putting her through. but she's starting to think about the general election. she has a fair degree of confidence she will win. i believe she is thinking a lot about what it will mean to be president. and if her team is right -- charlie: meaning she doesn't want to do something or say something that will impede her. mark: john and i were reporting that she began pretty early to think about who would be in her cabinet, who would be her vice president. there is a manner of superstition and worrying about the leaks. wantr team is right, they -- if they are right this will be relatively easy, that this will be the next president, she has to worry about what does the next five months due to her ability to not just win, but to govern and get something done, and make the job worth all the effort. charlie: the argument goes, that

they are prepared, unlike the republican opponents in the primaries. they are prepared to give as good as they receive. that they are armed and ready. mark: they are way more prepared. they have opposition research, thoughts about how to do it. they put out a very compelling adeo today, showing basically montage of donald trump's republican rivals and that rang me -- mr. romney saying negative things. it is deftly done. thing, they claimed are ready for but we will see if they are,, they don't want trump to dominate the conversation. they have seen what the dialogue was about. his agenda and his point of view, not the other republicans. charlie: but on the other hand, i have heard people say the general election would determine, on whether it is a referendum on him, or a referendum on her. if it is on her, he wins. if it is on him, she went. -- wins.

mark: it won't be that clean. it is a simultaneous thing. neither is in comments, it is not a clean referendum -- neither is an incumbent, it is not a clean referendum. she will try to disqualify him as unacceptable. he will try to qualify her as corrupt. charlie: crooked. mark: cricket, and not making change. charlie: could donald trump have won this without the spectacle? mark: clearly, if you could micromanage donald trump, and do 80% of this but cut out the other 20%, he would be in a better position. charlie: but he does it because that's who he is? you, and ie to tell know you know him, he is one of the most interesting and hard to understand people i have ever met. charlie: he wants the narrative to be that he is a giant, who is a great winner. he has convinced everybody. mark: everything he has said. but if he could sit here with

us, and we could run through the 10 biggest mistakes he made, and ask him why he made them and if he thinks it was mistakes, i don't know what he would say. charlie: here's what he would say. it would be an interesting conversation. he would be a conversation is. he would not deal in spectacle, he would not be dealing in, sort of, self-described characterizations of candidates. he would say ted cruz made this mistake. i might have not done this, but in the end it did not bother me because something else happened at the kind of analysis. . mark: take his fight with megyn kelly. he said the thing about her that people interpreted in a way, that he said was misinterpreted. i think picking a fight with megyn kelly, helped him quite a bit. charlie: really? you think he did it on purpose? mark: i do. but he stood up to fox news, and proved he was the biggest kid on the block.

that he was willing to make rupert murdoch dance to his tune. charlie: but have you heard him talk like that? murdochg to make rupert and roger ailes, who think they have all the power, they don't have power with me. that is what i'm going to do. what i know, i'm confident that was part of his thinking. it was an extraordinary spectacle. he has created so many moments already that are unprecedented, to go to a rally, usually attended rally as the front runner, have him attack fox news and have people boo fox news. charlie: because he was part of something people believe in, that the government and establishment let them down. mark: the big institutions, that they are against the people. charlie: yes. and i think his general -- if you had to pick a single trait that has helped him so far, it is strength. mark: and standing up to fox

news 10 days. i'm confident he saw it that way. charlie: and belittling his opponents conveyed strength? mark: sure. charlie: the argument is made he has a long way to go, and democrats are confident because that, latinos, the young, that burden is too much. and whatever he gains in terms of white males is not enough. i recognize in the later primaries, one-on-one he did better with women, and places like greenwich. so there is the demographics and electoral comment -- college. mitt romney had 200 plus electoral votes. 271. he has to do better than that. on the demographic site, there is, can he do better than romney did with "republican groups", white man and married women, can

he do better there? therefore he would not need to do better with other groups, and can he reach out to the other groups? foundation ofst the clinton world's belief that donald trump cannot win, that he cannot improve with those other groups. also, single women and younger women. to the notion he could improve. i think it is silly to underestimate him, and say where he is today is where he will be. i also believe he can win the election with the country giving him unfavorably. charlie: he's 15 ahead in some polls, and 10 below and others. mark: i think hillary will win a big score in some liberal states. i said the other day, on cable television, that i thought donald trump could make her have to compete to win california. i did not say i thought he would win. because i look at arnold schwarzenegger. look at all the things about arnold.

charlie: similar in terms of -- mark: lots of things. he said offensive things about women, seemed unqualified. had extraordinary appeal because of a variety of traits, that donald trump shares. strength, celebrity, success. is, you one difference never said arnold schwarzenegger is one of the best politicians you have ever seen. you have said that about donald trump. in fact, you said he second only to bill clinton. in your judgment of the skills of a master politician, first-time candidate -- master politician. mark: first-time candidate, just running, a tiny staff, wins the republican nomination? i talked to one of the smartest republicans i know today and i said, where do you rank that achievement in our carriers? -- careers?

he agreed with me. with the possible exception of barack obama's fundraising, that was the most remarkable thing that has happened. charlie: winning the nomination was the most remarkable thing you have seen? mark: and that he became the republican nominee. it is unfathomable. given the way the republican party has picked nominees, they chosen three candidates. vice president, someone picked the second time, or somebody maimed -- named bush. donald trump, again, the reason why i say it is incredible, he had a dozen people, none of whom had top level campaign experience. charlie: but that is the kind of campaign he ran. mark: yes, but to win the nomination like that -- you could be the most anti-trump person in the world, but you cannot deny the skill. charlie: tell me if i'm wrong,

in the end, you can't quite explain it, why he's been able to do this? of know the general sense unease in a country about the direction of the country. mark: that regular politicians cannot change it. charlie: and the establishment. what is interesting about it is whether someone else could have tapped into it, the way he has tapped into it. this is not a new ideal. we understand there is a great that people are very much upset about good luck, and after 2008, there is a real disenchantment with the economic future of the country, that it has been in a sense six, -- in a sense, fixed. mark: all true, but it took a

man with extraordinary media skills. who might have beaten him? you guys were saying at the beginning, this is a strong republican field. there were a lot of people in their. -- there. you have a very popular governor of wisconsin, you've got a senator who is young and had a vision -- mark: on paper, very strong. i said from the beginning, most overrated field. each of them was not a titan. they all had a lot of flaws. the thing about donald trump, he pointed them out. he was not encumbered by what and cumbers these guys. he did not go to fundraisers, he did not have issue positions. charlie: there are a lot of republicans, politicians, who believe this will be a disaster. a disaster. john boehner, another. mark: could be.

believe that if you were betting on any democrat, because of the demographics, i believe she is way ahead today. i believe something -- trump will have to be almost flawless to win. she will have to make mistakes. those who say he can't win, i just think they are wrong. it is too soon to say what kind of general election he is going to be, as a candidate. there's no doubt he will try to make the campaign personal about her, and make people want nothing to do with her. charlie: think you for coming. mark: thank you, charlie. fromie: mark halperin, bloomberg politics. back in a moment. stay with us. ♪

♪ charlie: marc maron is here and he is a comedian, and host of the popular part cast, -- podcast, "wtf with marc maron." it has recently celebrated the 700 episode. he is the host of the semi autobiographical show "maron." thisn four premieres wednesday, may 4. here is a look at the new season. ♪ marc: all right, everybody, before we get to today's interview, i think it is time to address the pink elephant in the room. many of you have read or seen stuff about me on the internet,

on reddit, on twitter, or you know, in the blog sphere, so it blogosphere, so it is time to set the record straight. several months ago, i started using pain medication. as some of you know, as a recovering addict, pharmaceuticals can become a slippery slope. 16 years of sobriety down the drain. but i will say this, i nipped it in the bud, water under the bridge, no harm, no foul. if you want other cliches, i can cover them tomorrow. ok? but, you know, marc maron is doing just fine. ♪ charlie: marc maron is doing just fine and he is back at this table. marc: it doesn't look good.

doesn't look like he's doing fine there. i don't want anyone to panic. charlie: there are two things here, number one, what happened? number two, the telling of it. marc: at the end of the last season, i decided to relapse on painkillers. it seemed like a nice story. pain?e: were you in marc: no, i did not really do it, charlie. it's a show. we do not know how to end the season, and when you do television, you did not know when it will beer last season. we should have a fairly clear ending. for some reason, i thought having me on the floor, babbling during the big opportunity that i had just blown, hosting a talk show, because i'm high on oxycodone seemed like a good place to leave it off for me. charlie: and you know enough people who have been through that. marc: i do.

the real challenge became when we got renewed, and they wanted to do more shoes -- chose. i did not know what we would do, i did not want to go back to the world we established. i had sort of done it and done my whole life that way and i didn't want to be redundant and it sort of hit me all at once , that he has been out, using boxee for a year, and we would come back and have a different show. mark has nothing, on drugs, we have to get him cleaned up and transitioned back into life, and make a big decision about his future so it has a nice , narrative arc. charlie: what do you think the listeners are buying into? do you think there are buying into this is in fact a reflection of his life, or are they saying, he has created a character that has nothing to do with him at this stage? marc: i think what they know about me, and if they have been listening to the podcast, there are stories based on reality. charlie: and the professional life is a little the same. marc: exactly. but the season is a bit of a

departure. because of the last three seasons, and people knowing me, they know i am sober and i am in recovery, and that this can happen. as a sober guy, this is what happens. you see this happen. you have these dudes who have , and theyor 25 years get an injury, and they get prescribed painkillers, and they slip, or go out. or the other way, someone 25 years sober, they say i'm probably not an alcoholic anymore, and then they are gone. charlie: and they know, they know the dangers, they think it cannot happen to me, and then they need it. marc: quickly. and it is sort of a cautionary tale. it was nice to deliver it fictionally. charlie: you had this character, you, who you could build on in the beginning and now you are free to do whatever, poetic license to do whatever you want. marc: it was great. it was great. it was fun for the writers. they were a little nervous at first, because we had a system going. and now that it's gone.

it was ambitious for the budget that we were afforded, who gave us -- from ifc, who gave us almost complete creative freedom. we were shooting two shows a week, all out in the world. it was ambitious. there were a lot of locations and stuff. but i think everyone is very proud of this season. it is something that is very unique for our show and the comedy works. marc: charlie: what else can you tell us about it without giving it away. ? marc: there is interesting back stories around the show. when i go into rehab, there is the joke that rehab would be the oldest one dare -- there. there is a guy who was actually my sponsor and he said that it is very common. everyone is in their 20's. so i'm the 15 -- 50-year-old man, surrounded by kids in rehab. so we had this idea that there is a character that is a spoiled, white, rap kid. it is like tom hanks's son.

chet. there was controversy about him, because he had a drug addiction and he was a white rapper. and we wanted to hire him. and we were like, do you think he would do it? and we hired him. this is probably his biggest acting part. he's basically playing himself. i'm in recovery, he was new to recovery. there was a lot of real stuff going on. he played this character for three episodes and it was really kind of exciting. charlie: describe your style of interview. marc: i just need to know some things. i would like it to go as freely as possible. i just have a general sense of who the person is. i don't have any real -- i don't want to dismiss major achievements. like if i am talking to somebody who has cured cancer. it would be good if i covered that. [laughter] i forget to talk about that during the talk. [laughter] charlie: i would not like to

recognize that you cured cancer. [laughter] charlie: i was helped prepare -- once helped prepare someone, who was very good, but i would say, here is what i want you to do. you read all this stuff, but forget all that. here is what you do. sit at your own computer, and you think about who this is and what you want to know. that is where you start. marc: right. charlie: start with an intuitive sense of who is this guy and , what do i want to know about him? marc: right, in a broad sense. charlie: rather than putting up the question of you know, there , was this conflict and then there was this thing, like regurgitating stories. what do i want to know about this person? marc: yes. if you do too much research, you already know the answer. that is an old journalistic trick, i have been told in the past before i did my podcast that you want to know what you are looking for in the answer, and i can't stand that. charlie: but i think there are

two points of view on that. personally, and number one is you do want to know enough. larry king and i have talked about this. they are used to say, i don't want to read anything. i never -- i need to know something. marc: your attacker. larry is a guy that just goes "why?" [laughter] charlie: you need to have a conversation. [laughter] you're more like me. marc: right. and you can hear the queues. where you are in the middle of a conversation, and then it goes this other way, that is exciting because then nobody knows what is going to happen. charlie: and you always seize the moment. marc: right. and get back to it. those are the only note that really make. if somebody drop something in the middle of a story that's compelling, i will just right, get back to that -- write, get back to that. charlie: i maintain a list,

because you don't want to miss the bits about, if you are a doctor he cured cancer, you don't want to forget. you want to make sure you remember that. marc: you don't want to be the guy driving away saying, i forgot about the oscar. [laughter] charlie: you want to know about you how of all people could do it. marc: that should be an important conversation. you will probably have that one before me, about curing cancer. [laughter] charlie: how close are you to louis ck? marc: we are very close. charlie: do you have a comedic history? marc: yes, we are good friends. on one of the big podcasts i did preparing ae were very long and deep friendship. he was just on the 700 episode. he talked about the creation of "horace and pete." we are in touch. we talk, we are busy people, but we talk. charlie: i just did one hour

with him and he is just wonderful. marc: yes, he is just great. charlie: a real sense of story is really deeply ingrained in him. marc: he's one of these people, he picks good role models. would always be reading the biography of teddy roosevelt when we were younger. he had some practical problem about you know, his car breaking , down and he would somehow analogize that to an issue about teddy roosevelt, so he is very good like that. [laughter] charlie: what would teddy have done? [laughter] marc: exactly, he elevates things. but he is a very engaged and brilliant guy. charlie: have you ever thought about ending it? marc: you mean, killing myself? [laughter] charlie: no. if i was interested in that, i would say, have you ever thought about killing yourself? precise is the better way to go. no, i mean about the podcast. is it your life? is that the thing that brings you, sort of a mission? marc: yeah, well, i don't know how you feel about it, but i get a little twitchy when i talk to people.

it has become, maybe it is the same for you, but i think it is the date -- deepest relationships i have for an hour. charlie: i don't know if i want to go there. [laughter] i have a girlfriend, and we get along at everything, but i have a deep relationship with that person. i don't think you can know anybody this deeply in one hour. charlie: yes, you can have a wife and her husband here and people talking but you have a license. often people will say, i heard things about my friends i have never heard before, and i know them for 20 years. it is because we had license, and it is expected. marc: i get that as well. it's an amazing feeling. i don't know about you, but sometimes i have conversations and there's moments when i'm like, maybe i should give that guy a call, and hang out, but then, i don't know if that's part of the job.

just talking off of the microphone. charlie: i think people always ask, do the people you have on the air become your friends? in some cases they do, some cases a don't. it also has to do with proximity. marc: i always wonder, but i leave it be. i would rather keep a few friends. you never want to be pestering. i never know what my role is. when you have a big star over, you think, we along well, and maybe we should have lungs, and then -- lunch, and i go to text, and then i think what am i , thinking? [laughter] once, i went to interview charles manson. marc: you want to have lunch with him? charlie: no! [laughter] but once, he said, i'm watching you rose. , i said, what do you mean? he said, you are on tv, you are on broadcast. at the end of the taping, i said, are you going to watch this? and he said, no, i just did it. marc: that's interesting. i feel that way.

charlie: what is the role of a podcast in the future of social media? are we going to see it a lot more? for example, david axelrod has a popular podcast. not as popular as yours, but popular. marc: it is sort of a wild frontier. everyone has access to the technology, and you can post it very easily. but like everything else there , are niche markets and we do things that apply to our lives , but there are also podcasts that are very niche. i don't know how long they will remain. but the good ones will find their way. charlie: is that what happened, did you find your way? because of word-of-mouth? like watercooler talk. marc: there was a bit of that, but it was mostly driven by the guest i had. how long ago did you interview manson? charlie: a long time ago, when i

started out. it was like 1984, marc: you 1985. should go back and interview him. charlie: every year there is some new story. marc: someone was just up for parole. charlie: i don't think they released her. marc: i don't think so. that would be an interesting interview. it would be intense. charlie: why don't you go to san quentin and talk to him? i would. who do i talk to? can you put me in touch with manson? charlie: [laughter] would you do it? would you like to do it? would you be interested in it? marc: yes, i would. he is an old which. charlie: he is more than that. maybe you and i differ, but i want to reach out to people and find them and say, how about let's do this? you are so casual about it. marc: manson is sort of a difficult get, charlie. i'm more focus on -- focused on albert brooks. he might be more difficult to get than charlie manson. he knows i want to talk to him.

charlie: are you being serious now? you have not been able to talk to him? marc: i think he just doesn't want to do one hour interview. charlie: i get a little bit of that also. 50 minutes is fine, but an hour, i can't carry in our. there's not that's -- in one hour. there is that much interesting stuff in an hour. but i said, trust me. marc: and the next phase is, well maybe there are things i don't want to talk about. [laughter] charlie: just say, you are in control. just say, i do not want to talk about this. marc: i don't think we would sit there and go, come on, come on. you're not trying to trap anybody. charlie: or look like the world's toughest interviewer. marc: do you ever get people who say, i don't want that in their? -- there? charlie: no, they don't say, i yout want to talk about it,

can talk about whatever you want to, -- marc: but after you have got it in the can, has anyone ever said, can you not run that part? charlie: sure. decision based on, if i thought it was interesting. if i thought it was relevant and interesting, i would say no. marc: do you have to talk to them a little bit? charlie: no. it is your decision. my name is on the door. and so is yours. [laughter] marc: oddly, when people ask for that, it is always about what they said about somebody else. charlie: that's right, you look at it, and they say, my wife's mother is going to be really, really bothered by this. and you say -- marc: tough luck. charlie: well it depends. i was ahey said, when kid, i did all these terrible things, and i got away with it, i am not going to say, no. it's whether they are hurting and inches -- innocent person. we consider that.

but if it was journalistic and relevant, i would say, no, it is in. marc: watch your mouth next time. [laughter] charlie: take a look at this. this is when you're trying to convince your agent to get you work. here it is from "maron." -- [video clip] marc: there she is. i've got some good news from you. i know it you are thinking but you are wrong. i feel excited, i feel funny, i feel talented. don't i seem better? ok, i'm not going to be picky anymore. i will take anything. you can put me on one of those dumb shows where i talk about other dumb shows or you can get me on this one where -- >> no, no, no, we are not going to do this again, i am not going to do this again. this thing you do every few weeks, and your eyes are glossy. marc: what? >> i don't represent you

anymore. i fired you. marc: you can't fire me, i'm the client! [end video clip] charlie: [laughter] was that 100% scripted? marc: it was a little loose, but it is mostly scripted. charlie: by you or other writers? marc: we have a writing staff. we break story together like , breaking bread, you know? i had ideas for the arc of the season and then we get into a room and then we flesh those stories out. it's a three act structure. writers are assigned to outline and script them. and then we bring it back in. it is collaborated them up but written by the writers. the writing team along with myself. charlie: i am glad you remembered all of the names. marc: they do a great job. it is a very exciting process. charlie: the writing process. sitting around the table. marc: there is a lot of sitting.

sometimes about 20 minutes of five or six guys and then i say, come on, there has got to be something. and then we just get movement. it's a weird and kind of one brain kind of thing that happens. charlie: what has been the most painful place for you to go that became part of this show? marc: last season. yes. last season when i fictionalized doing a podcast with my ex-wife , who i haven't talked to in years, and just bringing that up. because there were flashbacks in the episode where i actually had to shave my mustache to play it, the scenes that ended the relationship of the marriage. it got pretty hairy. i feel it i did something good. i feel like i got closure. i'm sure she sees it differently. [laughter] marc: i feel like i got closure and i'm sure she sees it as, why does he have to keep reading -- bringing this up?

charlie: it was over. it was a long time ago. we have gone on in our lives. don't you understand? marc: yes, that is what she would be saying. she wants nothing more when you , google her name, i am very far, perhaps three or four pages away. she would like to move that down in the google search. charlie: she would probably prefer that we not talk about it, too. marc: yes, but she is doing a wonderful thing, she is a writer and a mother and i am sure she is doing great. charlie: what is the best thing that could happen to you? marc: that is an interesting question. the best thing that could happen to me? that i actually feel content and happy enough to not do anything. charlie: that's interesting that you say that. died, andou know

there was a good friend of his. my friend spoke to him when he was dying, and he said, what do you regret? and he said, i regret not just being quiet. and the word he used was quiet. you know? marc: yeah. learning how to do that. insight. charlie: -- inside. charlie: silent. just the absence of frenzy. i think there is something to that. i don't feel that yet. i don't feel that sense. i asked you what it is you most want to do? marc: a peabody would be nice, too. [laughter] charlie: they are nice. marc: they are never going to give me one. charlie: why not? marc: i don't know. are you lobbying? charlie: if you lobby, you won't get it. marc: we sort of gave up on the whole idea of it. i don't think you have to submit. i won one a couple of years ago. marc: i don't even want to hear

this. i had the president in my house. if he was at not your house, it is what comes out of the president. marc: did you hear that interview? charlie: yes, it was damn good. [laughter] marc: i think it is the cursing. that is why it is called "wtf." that's the offending car. -- part. but what i want is peace of mind and a peabody. ,[laughter] charlie: how about being rich? marc: i feel like i am earning an honest living, not a show biz living. i partner and i work hard on the podcast, and we earn a decent living. and the tv thing is not so huge that it is ridiculous. you know, i'm saving money. charlie: do you spend money? marc: i don't spend money. i live in a two-bedroom house. i just get anxiety from thinking about more bedrooms. i don't know what to do with the second bedroom in a two-bedroom. charlie: are you in a good relationship? marc: i am dating a painter.

she is an abstract danger. charlie: that's great. marc: it's a whole different world than mine. of "maron"ason four premieres on may 4. marc: i feel like i should say her name, sarah cain. charlie: sarah cain? like kane? marc: sarah cain, c-a-i-n, s-a-r-a-h. sarah cain. everyone is going to google her name. charlie: he show premieres on wednesday. on ifc. great to see you. back in a moment. stay with us. ♪

♪ charlie: sara blakely is here, she is the founder of spanx. the company has become synonymous with shape where -- shapewear, a market estimated at $750 million. she came up with the idea at 29 while selling fax machines door-to-door. oprah winfrey's endorsement in 2000 sealed her way to success. she became one of the youngest female self-made billionaires in the world. she remains the sole owner of the company, and has never used traditional advertising, or ought outside investments. her net worth is more than she $1 billion. is also part of the giving pledge and i am pleased to have her at this table for the first time, although we have talked many times before. sara: thank you so much. charlie: i'm told this reminds

you of the table you had when you were growing up. sara: that's right. the minute i sat down, this is my dining room table in my childhood. i felt like i am prepared for my dad asking me about my homework, you know? this brought back memories to him interviewing me at the dining room table. [laughter] charlie: let's talk about you first. i didn't know much about spanx until i met you. sara: when of these days, i'm going to give you man spanx. [laughter] charlie: my colleagues, both men and women, but certainly the two women i work with, they were dumbfounded that i didn't know anything about spanx. because of what it meant to them. how did this happen? sara: it honestly all happened with me as a frustrated consumer. i had never taken a business class, i have never worked in fashion or retail. i just simply couldn't figure out what to wear under my own white pants. i stumbled upon a solution and cut the feet out of my own

control top pantyhose and put them on under my white pants, and i was able to wear a great style open toed shoe because of it. literally that night, i went home and i thought, this should exist for women. have to wait -- find a way to keep this product comfortably below the knee, and i will fill the void between traditional underwear, and girdles that are too heavy-duty. it was not a great canvas for women in close. filled the lane that became the perfect canvas. charlie: was it immediately successful? sara: it was, but it took me two years of hearing no to get it made. i cold called all the manufacturing plants and and begged them to help me make the product. charlie: many of them said they wouldn't do it? sara: yes, pretty much all of them said no. i kept asking.

they kept saying, hosiery is meant to be seen on the lead. but i -- on the leg. but i would show up, and i would say, i just want your material, and make a new type of undergarment with your material and people aren't even going to see it. and people were like, no one will buy that or we don't , understand that and the one thing i thought was so interesting was i wasn't talking to any women. charlie: it was all men. and what with dana? -- what would they know? sara: and then it dawned on me that this is perhaps why undergarments are so uncomfortable. is there a woman in this land? charlie: what do they do? they are formfitting? sara: yes, so it allows you just to wear your clothes. think of this. if you have a great piece of art, the paint is your clothing and spanx is the canvas. you have to have the right canvas for the artwork in the painting to come together, and as women, we have had really uncomfortable options. i joke that there was

traditional underwear, that left the panty line, and then somebody invented the thong that put us exactly where we have been trying to get out of, so i was thinking, this is not working. spanx provided comfortable solutions for women that let the clothes really work. silks,tain fabrics, certain jerseys, lighter colors, women had just been trained that we couldn't wear them. i mean, the models in the magazines were all being airbrushed, and it was all kinds of smoke and mirrors, and then you get home with a pair of white pants and stare at them and wonder, what am i supposed to wear under this? charlie: what happened with oprah? sara: oh my gosh, oprah told the world about me. i had no money to advertise. i was in the back of my apartment in georgia. i sent her a gift basket of them with a note and then i got a note back one week later saying that oprah chose spanx as her favorite product of the year. charlie: wow. sara: i know.

unbelievable. charlie: you went to chicago? was: actually, my product on the show, and they came to atlanta. and on the my favorite things show they don't usually have guests. they just usually have products, but they told me that oprah liked it so much, can we film you in atlanta? i said sure, charlie, they all showed up in my apartment in atlanta, there were like, 10 of clipboards, very official. they said, we want to film you in your headquarters are at best. i was like, you are here! [laughter] sara: they also talked about a staff meeting and i said, hold on a minute, so i called all of my friends and i call this one in connie, that i had met at mailboxes etc. we all set in a circle and that was my staff meeting for the oprah show. charlie: so now you have over 200 people working for you? sara: yes, over 200. charlie: 27 are male? sara: ok! [laughter]

charlie: that was a huge success. spoken outhave really about it, including the presidents -- the first lady, beyonce, eva longoria, gayle talked proudly about wearing them and what it means to them. that is what made you. where are you going now? sara: where i am going now is that first of all, i understand fit and i understand how to deliver comfort plus results in an industry that is really been mainly focused on how we look, and not how we feel. i am completely inspired to take the brand spanx and invent and keep inventing better solutions for women. i've got a long list of them, charlie. charlie: give me an example. sara: heels. shoes are so uncomfortable. charlie: they so are.

sara: we have been wearing high heels, and they are miserable. that is on my list. i have a long list. charlie: of product series? -- theories? sara: yes. charlie: what kind of distribution do you have now? sara: we are in 60 countries and we have bulk of our distribution in five or six countries, that we are widely distributed. women everywhere have the same reaction to the brand. people: our most of the salespeople, and organizational people, making sure that the product is made right rather than all of these designers and things like that? because it seems to me that that is what you do. sara: it's interesting. i read a quote from elon musk the other day, that said building a company is like building a cake -- making a cake. you have to have all the ingredients in the right place. i think it is a balance of how much talent you have and what

-- in what part of the organization. i would say we are very heavy on the product development side and the marketing side. charlie: warren buffett is also a friend of yours. sara: yes, yes. charlie: he likes people like you, entrepreneurial, starting your own business. they also suggested you join the giving pledge, which you have done. sara: yes, i have. charlie: what does that mean for you? sara: it is a great honor and i have so much gratitude for being a woman born in this place and time in this country and i feel that the world will be a better place if women are better utilized on the planet, and have the opportunity to fulfill their potential. so, you know, my success, if i can pay it forward in a small way, to help further that, it is just the best feeling. charlie: is it possible, i mean, you are a young woman, happily married, family. sara: four children, charlie.

four children under the age of six. charlie: is it possible that you , at some point, in the near or intermediate future, that you would sell the business and do something else, or is it the only thing that turns you on at this stage of your life? sara: that's a great question. i operate so much for my gut that i feel like i will know when i will know. i feel like it would be in the best interest for the brand, the company are myself. but i have no intention of it at the moment. the funny thing is is that right after i started the company, all of these people started asking me what my exit strategy was and i didn't even know what they were talking about, because i had never taken a business class. i just remember thinking, my exit strategy is that i want to exit the room and look good. [laughter] charlie: thank you for coming. sara: thank you so much for having me. charlie: thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

>> i'm mark crumpton. you are watching "bloomberg west." house speaker paul ryan will not support donald trump's nomination, at least not now. ryan, the 2012 vice presidential readye told cnn, "i'm not to do that at this point. i'm not there right now." he continued saying, i think what is required is that we unify the party. former republican presidential nominee mitt romney will skip the nomination in cleveland -- convention in cleveland. in march, mitt romney delivered a blistering attack on donald trump, calling him a phony and a fraud. donald trump has called romney a choke