>> this is charlie rose. brett is here. he previously held a number of policy roles in both the obama and bush minute -- administrations. continue -- they're battling to stay in office over mass protest.

he was the third american servicemen to die 2014. meanwhile in syria there is a push to maintain a cease-fire. talk about all of this i am pleased to have brett back. >> thank you. charlie: where is a rack today? i've been traveling around the region. barak faces tremendous challenges. here is a guy that came into office. it was it democratic transition. oilhe time, the price of

was $400. every single drop of oil, iraq loses about a billion dollars a year. you get a sense of the 12th he has to work. what he is trying to do is implement some pretty far-reaching reforms. tectricity terrorists -- ariffs. amongs actually popular the population. what you have in the country is a kind of a kind of of people against the status quo from the bottom up. not against the political establishment.

they cannot get enacted. the population continues. they're kind of writing that waves. the body it is in a very top spot. overall he is trying to do the right thing. we are hopeful he can get out of this. we recognize it is one of the most difficult jobs in the world. we have to give the process a little bit of time to mature recognizing that even superman cannot do what is needed. every month, the country is taking in additional debt. we are working with many members. .o help iraq

they will need some help. they will keep doing the right thing. they have to address this popular pressure. he is going to need some help also from his political challengers. charlie: you've pointed out the politics from iraq is crucial. his essential requirement was beyond fixing the economy and the confidence of people in iraq was to appeal to the sunni tribes. the battle against isis, is that happening? maliki was an extreme center visor. incentivized in his office. he was constantly answering the phone. probably. frankly, that cannot work.

creates pressure. he has a different philosophy. he said when he was coming into office that either iraq decentralize is or it will descend to break. -- disintegrate. he really believes in that. he has been a very supportive of getting local actors into the fight. you have really seen that come to fruition. bar province, about 15,000 tribal fighters are mobilized.

they have marched there up the euphrates valley. ofwas a kind of fortress .sil they were able to do that because the tribes were immobilized. the tribes and security forces broke. important.s is very they are fighting with the iraqi security forces. he is been flushing resources down to the local level. an iconic city. and committedir

mass atrocities. because this kind of attack. the city have been already depopulated. we worked with the iraqi government and local leaders to flesh resources down to the local levels. we had them identify how to get people back into their homes. what comes after isis? these peoplehave that have been displaced to come back to their homes. how long does this take? it can take years for people to come back to their homes. this combination of flushing people, they you went to a great job. what they had to do to get people back.

almost 95% of the population is back in their homes. it is quite remarkable. it happened because the had an agendairaq to decentralize and push resources down to the local levels. now in ramadi we are trying to do the same thing. -- so difficult is the nature of the enemy we are fighting. they are so barbaric. is wired with iuds. they put them in people's refrigerators and children's toys. 65,000 people have come back to ramadi. 100 have been killed by iuds. the government put a halt on the returnees. we immediately raised $15 million to help go clear the iuds. they are clearing it to help

people bring back to their homes. this is only happening because the government supports this kind of decentralization agenda. not to overstate the challenges, this is extremely difficult. it is concerning. he is a very unpredictable after. it is ironic. he's taken on the mantle of anticorruption. that is his cause all of a sudden. in the lastw iraq decade, there is an higher to that. charlie: we lost a navy seal this week. brett: terribly sad. we have a little over 4000 there right now.

forces, let me talk this youngritical navy seal is doing and his comrades. what they do to advise and since -- assist has been a game changer. when ramadi fell, it was a daunting time. we met with national security teams in the situation room, the president was presented with a very good plan from general austin and the department of defense to set up and advise and assist facilities. small teams of central forces went to help most -- motivate the tribes. the navy seals took up that mission. iraq, we had special forces doing that.

timeare also from time to doing direct action. they have been extremely affected. they have been going out and doing direct offense missions. have theually they iraqi counterterrorism. secretary carter called race. leader, and isa there is an opportunity to --ture them, that is what of one of the things we have learned to do. it has been very effective. charlie: i want to come back to that. part of what is argued by the panic, is that we are taking a level of isis leadership. brett: every three days now we

are taking out a significant leader. forces, some of the kurdish forces we work with. i will give you an example. now, we knowago more about iceland now than we did two years ago. heroismes by the real of our people that are out there. about a year ago we identified a deputy. isil. the financier of you could either target him from the air or try and capture him. he was deep inside syria. ack then it was kind of

heartland. our special forces went from northern iraq to that town. he resisted, he was killed. but the amount of information taken off that site was more than any operation. charlie: what kind of information? brett: thumb drives, computers, documents. how they are getting oil out of the ground, what they are doing with it. we put that into a targeting process so we could be affected in our targets. we have since learned that i sold makes about a billion dollars every year. million from oil and gas and the other half from extortion tactics. we have now reduced their to get resources dramatically. it is now down by 30%.

they have cut their salaries for their fighters in half. mosul, wetiple -- learned where there are keeping all this cash. where's all caps? we found out. it is tremendous work by our teams. together and we found out where the cash was. it is more effective than we thought. we've taken out about a billion dollars of their cash. they cannot regenerate that. the leadership of isis that influences everything. it's an rocco? we think they are around raqqa.

the situation is not going well for them. -- they travel freely red to travel freely between aqqa and mosul. not anymore. we have caught off all of those roadways. we are working with the syrian kurds and the coalition of syrian arab fighters. taking them and cutting off all those roads. there basically isolated two cities. for them to get through, they have to take these back roads. it makes it easier for us. they are isolated now in these two areas. in rof the leaders are aqqa. that is why we're picking up so many of their leaders.

it is anize that phenomenon. it is important to understand how we handle it. we recognize it in three dimensions. you have to shrink the core. a little less in syria. there is a core in iraq in syria. there are global networks of foreign fighter networks. propaganda and recruiting networks. they may have eight self-declared affiliates around the world. the one we are most concerned about is libya. global problem and challenge. that is why we built this global coalition. charlie: how successful have they been in work crooning al qaeda and other groups to pay

allegiance to them? -- they've tried to establish themselves as the principal terrorist organization. there is this kind of competition between isis and al qaeda. just look at syria. syria qaeda affiliate in and isis is a separate entity. they both came from al qaeda in iraq. was -- happened when back down he said he wanted to establish a caliphate. a debate in jihadi circles. osama bin laden was always supposed to that. brett: when sue do that, it

won't be popular. you cannot really government like us day. they said it's a great idea. i have to say that i was hdadi wasd it when bag there. what it has done is it supercharged this global recruiting. i hear this when i travel all around the world. what is driving so many young people to isis? is thison denominator notion of a caliphate, this historic movement. come be a part of it. it has this genetic effects on their recruiting. it is constantly expanding. is retain andase

expand. used to shownda his wife taking over the middle east. they cannot make the case anymore. it is now shrinking. now they are saying come join this movement. we're are under attack but that is why you have to come and join us. it is actually shrinking. it will continue to shrink. charlie: do we know they're getting any support from within countries that are part of the coalition? not governmental but people of influence and institutions, foundations and others who have been supportive of the expansion of isis? brett: when it comes isis, we

have shut that off. all of our best information shows that isis resources are self generated. they are very dependent on the territory they control. are trying toey take oilfields and gas fields. they are not being very successful. it is mostly self generated. we have cut off the external funding. reason for that. isis is in saudi arabia. , we are launching attacks have had very good meetings with the saudi's. either an attack is launched or broken up. what comes out is that they care more about iran. i'm asking. brett: that's true. with secretary kerry, we spent about three hours talking about

the deputy crown prince of saudi arabia. is iranmber one concern and what they are doing in the region. charlie: they believe iran is trying to be a hegemonic power. they also believe in their narrative that what is driving this recruiting to isis is that as those strongest sunni entities standing up to iran. of course it's not. the kingdom wants to get ahead of that. there is some of that. isis is a bit of a symptom of governance and totalitarianism. there is something broader going now around the world. there is very little iranian influence. where people are being drawn to

this, there is very little about. the number one country of isis isfighters joining to need seo. isia.n most of the fighters are not going to libya. the recruiting comes entirely this type of tension, it doesn't tell the whole story. 6000 tuni have joinedsians isis. we can't get too distracted because most of them are pre-existing problems. boko haram is a pre-existing problem. they are now flying the flag of isis.

when we see leaders traveling to libya to finance and being , thated by isis leaders is when we get concerned. what are we planned to do? we have to strengthen that government. emerging, wehreats do not want to get too far ahead. they know that when they asked for help, they will find a willing and international community willing to help. ♪

charlie: let's go back to iraq. back mossible to take ousl by the end of obama stern? is willhe way he put it definitely have the conditions in place. mosul.ll be out of we do not one of the a timeline on this. that is the goal. charlie: in iraq in syria? brett: absolutely.

we hope not to get into a situation where it is a street by street fight. we working with a lot of people. has worn out its welcome to say the least. they do all sorts of terrible things. the squeeze is now beginning. baseie: we have a southeast of most all. iraqi security forces there as well. our initial phases of doing -- this is difficult. they have to get their sea legs. there are a number of other

things. someone said to me other day that the campaign is hitting a positive. we were clearing thousands of kilometers every week or so. there is a national strategic cause. you reassess and you analyze. week, was in iraq last military commanders were putting the final touches on the plan for the next stages of this campaign. i know they feel pretty confident about it. i hear you and the president said the same thing. is the idea that we can use special forces with peshmerga

and with sunni tribes and the ,.s. providing intelligence citing of sources and other things. that is the battle plan to take isis? brett: that's the military side. there is a nonmilitary component as well. on the military side, every time we had advised this. that means let's plan together and think of how to do this. here is what you need. it has been hugely successful. i've been to these front-line areas. i've been there to talk to the people. the air base. when we do that every single time we succeed. we're going to continue to do

that. mat the president ordered for osul, that gives us. additional capabilities. , we said there were additional capabilities that we might be able to provide. it turns out we didn't need them. mosul, it is a different terrain. it is the nonmilitary aspects that are critical here. we call it stabilization. what comes after isis? people will be empowered with their own affairs. that is very important. bute is a military side

there is a stabilization element. i mention here in the beginning that iraq is facing severe economic challenges. they do not have an economic foundation that we thought they would have. no one predicted this oil price shock. people are having their paychecks cut. clearly if you recapture it, is that the end of isis in iraq? brett: it will have a significant, decisive blow. he said we are establishing a caliphate. mosul,is is no longer in

that will be a significant blow to the entire notion of what they are inventing. however, they will not just go away. they will remain a terrorist organization. they say it was defeated in 2012. even then, they had 5-10 suicide bombers every month. you get a down to a level where it is not a threat. most important, it is not a threat to us. that is what we're focused on. charlie: let's move to syria. how strong is bashar al-assad now? have the russians pulled out at all russian mark --?

and role are they playing are they playing any role against isis? the russians came in to shore up assad. , you haveut in place to keep in mind that in order to put this in place, if this thing .ontinues to escalate this is a grinding war of attrition. you forget about that. and rightfully so.

we have to get into a deescalate tory cycle here. to isolate.nt is what we agreed with the russians is that we will have this of hostilities. putin that his reputation on the line saying he were going to support this. what is happened the last couple is these regime air

strikes against targets that are civilian target. totally outrageous. that ifto the russians you cannot deliver the regime then obviously this can't work. that has led to in three parts of the country and eastern damascus we are reestablishing the sensation of hostilities. what you are seeing the regime to, that has to stop. ush the russians are telling that they agree they are working to reestablish.

senator kerry said that syria is so complicated and it is so far from day-to-day to figure out what is happening in any given place. if the russians are sincere in this, we areorce incident -- sincere in trying to deliver. we have now increased our team in geneva. when things flare up, we can try and work together. that might not work but that is where we are right now. regime.e to deliver the

charlie: is the coalition going against a thought? -- assad? brett: the counter isis coalition is not focused on stopping us on. it is focused on isis. on --e: who is stopped focused on stopping a soft? assad.wed -- aleppo, inou take

the southwest, what makes it .omplicated also against he is fighting the side? brett: what they would say is if we were being attacked by the regime, we need help. we started to see that happening.

we said to the russians. let's work together to deescalate the situation. you can see the separation. obviously, we are not the area. the mostit is complicated and important problem on earth. where we are right now is trying to reestablish in these three areas and take it from there. we have aleppo fighting in the southwest. that is a concern. that thehis conflict kurds are fighting some of the areas.

back in a moment. stay with us.

♪ charlie: we turn to politics. donald trump was the last man standing. here with that and more is maggie a permit of the new york times and cnn. let me begin with what happened today. , il ryan said the following standardbearer and he cannot at this time support donald trump. implications? >> it is an astonishing moment that the highest standing and a man who thought was the future of the party cannot support the man. the biggest most neon

example of the parties split so far and the reaction to donald trump. a reminder of how much work there were -- on trump is going to have to do to support the republicans. in 2020, many republicans will probably say they believe that donald trump is months -- much less likely to win than hillary clinton. that in looks towards his withdrawal speech. charlie: you still have the tea party as part of the republican party. you have what might be -- paul ryan. what is going to happen?

if donald trump loses badly, is the party going to be something different? are people going to form a new party? >> that is something they are wrestling with right now. pointedly that i will not support trump. i am not for hillary clinton and i am not for donald trump. i am looking for what comes next. paul ryan is a very conservative figure and yet at this moment, he is not treated that way anymore. moderate, anda establishment republican. the party's base is very worst ofious -- suspicious government and and establishment. you certainly peeled -- see

people like paul ryan and ted cruz that it will form back to before.was it is a collection of different tribes with different interests. is theremy question is anything that donald trump can do. he can promise that this will be a different campaign but there is a history. a series of videos , and hents he has made does not want to change that much. it did with him the domination -- nomination being different. somebody who wrote his own playbook.

i do not think trump is a can can be emulated by another candidate. he was able to manipulate the media. being on the apprentice for 14 seasons. he was beamed into people's homes. he was playing a leader on tv. not just anybody could've done that but i do think that trump accomplish something. number one, he thinks why would i change this. this is what people wanted and i'm giving it to them. i'm giving the people what they want. you have a set of new advisors that come in and they are trying messaging.s trump has proven resistant to that. charlie: just when you think

he's changed. >> more pivot points and anyone else i can think of. charlie: is it impossible for him to win this presidential race barring some kind of black or hugeindictment unforeseen events? >> i think that nothing is impossible base that we saw nothing is impossible. charlie: all the people protesting are the ones that said trump will never do it. been said, ig think it would take a black swan event for him to beat hillary clinton. or she would have to self-destruct. there may be a third-party candidate. the things that paul ryan said earlier today which was interesting was that he did not say that we did not have a

third-party candidate. he said that i'm not sure that is necessary right now that he did say that would be terrible or devastating. charlie: one of the reasons michael bloomberg did not run is that he did not want to be a spoiler in the election. he did not want to be a spoiler. >> that's right. and the reason that we talked it would be someone that had resources. enoughd just be taking electoral votes away from hillary clinton was their estimation that donald trump would then become president. campaign isinton saying now that there would be thatird-party candidate could compete in a number of

states. that combined with donald negatives,y high many of them controversial. they believe that with all of that she is very likely. be --thing going to prevent this as a race to the bottom? already on our way to that. need a campaign. the slash and burn night fight -- knife fight. campaign is going to make that when looked like a high-minded debate of ideas. charlie: how do we let this happen to this?

>> we have led to some extent. donald trump is entertaining to a lot of people. i'll think that's just it. voters are very angry. exposed is the tremendous break between the party base voters. they have not been in touch with where their voters are. in trump's case, he figured out that the party base was against trade deals, was very native a stick on immigration and wanted to turn away from george bush foreign policy. he did not want to spend american dollars on overseas wars. in an interesting way the president has some of those

points of views. >> he is particularly did that they are not totally different from what obama has said. obama has complaints about free riders in recent months. they have to pay 2% of the gdp for defense. he does not show the same understanding. nuances andon diplomacy. let me turn to the democratic party. left? moved to the clearly, bernie sanders had a huge influence. he talked about populism and walls street and all those things. is it a different democratic party then bill clinton?

>> absolutely. it is becoming that. it is in the process of becoming that. the voters who are open to a self-described democratic socialist and would be supportive of his agenda cannot be ignored and that is not where the party has been. bernie sanders has been in congress for decades and was saying some version of what he has been saying for a long time. >> he really hasn't. you can see supporters are moving to him and it is not the other way around. problems,inton s two she herself is prone to talking about the past. she has been that way for as long as i have covered her.

lottalks about the 90's a in a favorable, glowing way. a lot of the clinton era policies are things that the party has moved away from. gay marriage, criminal justice reform. a lot of them are based motivators. clinton has had to back that on the crime bills from the 90's. charlie: they have been attacking her husband. >> he has gotten very angry about it. he gets angry in general when she gets attacked but he also sees it as an attack on his own record and that is what he is responding to. what you are seeing is that some of the old methods of soothing people with its democratic subsets is not working that well.

clinton says that she has this but voters say it does not mean anything to them. charlie: it's always about the future. the future is about their hopes and they vote their hopes. on whoection may depend the referendum is on. this theorylrod has that either you look for a replica or a remedy. hillary clinton's problem is that people want a remedy. she is doing a bit of both and that has been very difficult for her. 's lingeringrs presence in this race has exposed that. charlie: this election could be transported in -- transformative for both parties.

>> i think that's right. i think one of the reactions you are seeing in congress in response to the donald trump is increased calls to confirm merrick garland before this term is over to aim the senate. that if the numbers hold willillary clinton nominate someone to the left. >> go with what you know is the sale for voters. you can see something of a fever breaks. thank you. thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

john: i am john heilemann. mark: i am mark halperin. with all due respect, if you let donald trump picks the chair, he has options. trump: you originally come from ohio, right? paul o'neill of the yankees. mark: on the show tonight, a