donny: i'm donny deutsch. mark: and i mark halperin. respect,d with all due i got this. ♪ episode this special tonight, the donald's do's and don'ts tonight with donny. it just these are reinforcing in some ways capabilities. last night, the "wall street journal" reported that the clinton foundation received

and included in the ownership list is a woman who "the journal" described as a "close friend of bill clinton. and then following that is a negative story about donald j. trump, the billionaire. of paper claims it has audio donald trump pretending to be his own spokesman, john, and this morning, on "the today show" on nbc, donald trump denied that the voice was actually his. have obtained a recording with the voice that they say is, in fact, you, someone pretending to be a pr person. this is 25 years ago. let me play a portion of the tape for you. >> what is your name?

john: john miller. about his dating exploits, his reports, so my question is for you this morning, are you aware of the tape and if so, is this you? i don't recognize this at all, and there are many, many people who are trying to imitate me, and this is a scam, one of many scams, this doesn't sell like me. when was this? 25 years ago? >> yes, in the early 90's. you're quite ao cover something it happened in the early 90's, 25 years ago -- you're going to cover something that happened in the early 90's, 25 years ago? donald trumpe is talking about it. people have been

talking about this and right next to my golf club, it is just a few minutes away and people have been talking about that for years. i have no idea what is going on. it is a bombshell. there is no doubt about it. clinton has not publicly responded to the bombshell but the clinton foundation responded that "the peace misleads readers about how the foundation works." and here is bill clinton talking about it last night on a rope line in kentucky. clinton: i haven't had a chance to read it carefully, but that is not what my foundation stands for. sodonny -- so donny, neither of these stories have exploded like i thought they would, but would you say that either or both represent a threat to the targets? ironically, they are

both on brand and with trump, it is about this voice, and with hillary clinton, it is about e-mails. potential he the trump thing has more fire. this election is going to be about fear, are we more afraid of the unknown about trump or the known about hillary? this shows with donald trump, and how wacky he is. let's just visualize that you are donald trump, ok, and you are posing as a somebody else calling to give good press not about donald, but about women, that is nuts. ! mean that is cray-cray mark: he admits that he has done this in the past, played his own pr guy. donny: if anything, what he should have done, when iran an agency, we would hire 50 actors to go in as a british receptionist.

he could go, "hey, look, i was kind of having some fun with it." mark: it was the 90's! donny: i don't need to pay some pr guy, but the fact that he would hide behind it and say he didn't do it, i think that is a damaging blow because they are kind of both on brand. . -- brand. mark: they are both as you say. i think they both have legs. comeyou ever do this, on. on the other side, this komen goals with all kinds of things. this is going to come back. differences that are so big and at this point. the trump stuff is easier to digest, you know, you glaze over

this. the clinton stuff is kind of boring but the donald trump stuff, it is kind of fun. the donald trump stuff is still this great unknown. mark: what do you think trump is going to say when he is asked about it directly? thing for trump whether it is a howard stern am aniew, "hey, i entertainer and this was twice five years ago, kids, grow up." and there is a look at other things we have seen this week, and the press has more and static we looked at this and the democratic front runner has struggled to face the donald even when she is facing the donald. this will continue and it will. mark: you know, john and i talked to john podesta and we

said, "are you worried that donald trump could dominate the news?" and they said that their job is not to let that happen. far, on "the today show," if he wants to dominate the story, he can. is veryy the way, it simple. donald comes on, you lean in, hillary comes on, you lean back. look at the commercial ratings. america bought the trump pilot, and now they want to see the show. say what you want, we are going to watch trump all the time, morning, noon, and night. mark: what can she do? she can come and say i want to be in the news every night. i don't want to always be a trump piece. what can she do? donny: she has to be a great counterpunch. the counter program has got to be smart, to you've got to wait,

basically, basically your best tv efforts are to counter him. mark: but the best efforts are never going to be as good as his . look, she could be the lead every day and blow himself up and the country basically says, this is the story, this is the guy. donny: she should basically -- by the way, if i were her, i would be on "saturday night live" next weekend and try to do some be fun, try to mock you. look, she is a serious person. n atkind of have all the fu his expense. obama is kind of like her attack dog. trump will go on and do interviews even when there is controversy surrounding him. pr thing, bute when she has got controversy torling, she doesn't want talk to the press.

her people are going to bunker about it with her, and i think it is going to be hard for her because there is going to be a lot of research that comes out about both of them. trump will still be out front dominating. him toit is up for either make them work for him or either he will implode, but either way, he has the answers and there is nothing that hillary clinton is doing to take the cameras away from donald trump. mark: she could go on a fifth avenue, to paraphrase about what donald trump said about shooting someone, and she could go on fifth avenue and light herself monk inlike a vietnam and she still wouldn't get as much attention. donny: if something happens in the news, she is going to comment and going forward, and she is going to -- donald trump represents people whether we like it or not, and he is going to be weighing in for the rest of his adult life. mark: saying of those immortal words, "trump lives."

all right, when we come back, we his mad menny about expertise. that is coming up. ♪

mark: when it comes to presidential campaigns, the guiding theory of this program is clear, find the public image and who finds the public image wins. karl rove was the latest to weigh in on this story. he wrote in to "the wall street journal" this week that it is about undermining each other. i think we have our bona fide brand mand onset here. through -- us

brand man on set here. us through this. donny: you need a straight talking man. mark: it is pretty clear what the clinton people want you to think about trump, the use "rases like "loose cannon," not friendly to women and and "narcissist." donny: if you are trump, you want to alleviate the fears. coming intoeriff town and you want to protect the little guy and the ends justify the means. you know, every major drama on tv, the protagonist, whether it bad,"d men," "breaking

it is emasculated males, and everything he has to do is show he is a strong, i am in charge, don't be deflated. is stillhink clinton the favorite in this race but the danger for her is you look at the negative list. for a lot of voters, those negatives have some positives to them. "loose cannon," i want a guy who is a loose cannon in washington. even.rtist," donny: you have to do one of two things, i am either going to clean things up or take it like that barry goldwater ad with the daisies. are risk averse. if i were running clinton's campaign, everything would be about, "mommy, you can't put your kids in harm's way." martin sheen is the dead zone. you do not want him saying --

who cares? not just the clintons say it, but the obama's and the biden's say, you're going to hear military diplomats -- military leaders, foreign diplomats, but i will tell you, a lot of people i talked to say that if the price of johnny washington will take on the loose cannon, we're going to do it. but you are right. donny: it is too high of a price and it could and the world. i am not being a pop elliptic -- being a apocalyptic here, it could in the world. let's talk about the clinton brand here and what she is trying to reinforce. donny: oh, i am sorry. that includes her experience as first lady and as a former secretary of state and she would have the distinction of being the first female president here in the united states. finally, she would be strong-willed and have the

strength to fight back if she would get knocked down. the: again, those of positives and here is what the trump team is going to try to and, "corrupt hillary," then people perceive her as insincere and untrustworthy and that she is out of touch. she is considered an establishment politician and she obama'spresent barack third term and finally, she is in the back po of wall street interestscket -- back pocket of wall street interests. are pretty good, i am safe, he is not. i am safe. he is not. honey, your kids are going to come home. he is not safe. i am safe. mark: so people vote on emotion. tot else can she talk about have people see the brand? ofis not just safe and kind

boring, but it is also emotional. positive of that is safety. in reality, i guess she is boring. at worst, she is untrustworthy. so that they may have got with her is that you make the status quo sexier than the fear of the unknown. unknown has won in six of the seven last elections. ofobama was a blank piece paper, bill clinton was a blank piece of paper. we have a very long dossier on trump and if you make that dossier a rap sheet, he becomes too scary. mark: what is potentially damaging to her brand? donny: i have mentioned this before, bill clinton. hillary is being called a neighbor, but the smoking gun that i am worried about is getting massages from 14-year-old kids and if

anything, bill clinton, if he were somewhere near that or in the same spaces as that, hillary will go down with that. mark: is that part of corrupt and untrustworthy? donny: that is part of the yuck, that is part of the yuck. it is not just about steady by your full entering husband and you turn your head, if anything, you were married to a man who is somewhere near that, that is an ugly dispute not seen anywhere and to be, that is what i would be concerned about. mark: so they both have advertising, they both have surrogates, but in terms of a better skill, who is political athlete at finding their brandon going on the offense? are they close? donny: i mean, donald trump is one of the best branding human beings, communicators, sales persons of all time. the guy blows me away. and i know donald, i am friends with donald, i could tell you

tell yougths, i could his weaknesses, but in my career of following brands that includes a nike and following celebrities like madonna and politicians like obama, i have never seen a more managed brand than this person. mark: one of the main reasons you think he has got a good chance here. and ie come back, donny are going to examine the deep stake options-- of both candidates. ♪

mark: so here we are with donny deutsch talking about the

candidate brands and they are both going to have three major opportunities to define themselves in the general elections. one will be when they pick their running mates and the others will be moving forward with that. with trump.rt before we get to actual physical human beings, what kind of picks could? he use to enhance his personal brand -- could he used to enhance his personal brand? donny: he could use the things that are strong, masculine, protective, all of those things, or an extension, a woman on the ticket, someone who is a moderator, and something who could help to extend his brand. i think there is someone on the top of his list, and that is tom rich. he is a security guard and he is a big man in washington and he didn't need another southerner,

two, realare good-looking southern guys. mark: the other thing about tom ridge is he has a blue-collar background. donny: i have seen what they look like on stage together and it also seems that ridge has the kind of gravitas. he has the ability to say, man?"d, how you doin', mark: i think he could get away has it and i think that he the national security credentials and i think there is almost no chance of that he could pick someone without national security credentials and trump has said as much also -- as much. also, ridge knows washington and could help him. also, clinton, who could she picked to help her brand?

donny: does she go deep into her bread or does she extended? i think she will do a brand extension. what do we say about hillary? yeah, she is boring. i say go with castro, get a sexy, young hispanic. basically, you now have a young, appealing, hispanic male on the ticket and i think that is her first choice by far. goingk a boring choice, just in terms of brown from ohio, i think you need him. is the difference between ridge and with all due respect, castro. ridge is qualified to be president. castro has got a great future, but idle think you could pass him off today as being a great president. i don't think you want to take too great a risk. we are ready. arewith all due respect, we ready, but it is risky with him

for president of the united states. donny: but you put a more risk-averse candidate there whereas hillary is there. you are not thinking -- i don't think people are thinking about one gunshot away, god for bid, you have to think of the overall candidate. made hismp may have pick, or he may make it at the convention, so that gives clinton a very small window and it goes back to something that we talked about earlier in the show. she needs a real "wow" thick. -- pick. donny: this is what i am saying, that is my point. the more logical picks, the better it is. and castro.ary she needs sex appeal, she needs newness. pitbull, like a

andrew cuomo. she is obviously not picking andrew cuomo, obviously, but some kind of hug nation's street fighter -- kind of pugnacious streetfighter. mark: i think she may find a prominent republican to join her or may be a republican woman. that would be a "wow" pick. donny: who would that be? give me a name. mark: i don't know yet. i think maybe if she could find a female business person. any female would just straight up the race. donny: i don't think that -- so, but --'t think donny: i don't think elizabeth warren. mark: i don't think she is going to pick elizabeth warren.

this is crossover appeal. donny: if she could find someone like that. but if she could pull it off, wow. mark: i mean, there may be a retired senator who could do it. donny: name three. i am working on it. [laughter] mark: if nancy kassebaum were around, that would be a fine pick. up, it was aming very big week for the republican party's unifying project. we will talk with michael steele. donny: why does he get to be superman? i get super glasses, but he gets to be superman. ♪ . .

show me top new artist. ah, ha ha. show me top male artist. my whole belieber fan group. it's not a competition, but if it was i won. xfinity x1 lets you access the greatest library of billboard music awards moments,

simply by using your voice. the billboard music awards, live sunday may 22nd, 8/5 pacific, only on abc. isk: our first guest tonight two guests tonight. joining us, the former chairman

of the rnc, michael steele and casey hunt joins us. chairman steele, what happened this week that increased your view of the probability of donald trump getting elect did? -- getting elected? michael: the fact that he was able to walk into washington and command the stage. across a strong message the country on a number of fronts. number one, that the establishment is willing to talk and meet with him. two, he sat in that meeting and did the important thing, which was listen. he did not come in braggadocio wave the flag. i think he is ready to go up against hillary and become president. mark: what would you add to that answer? i am hiding all of the cards.

had -- theld trump republicans in washington have a chance to learn what it is about donald that appeal to so many people. john cornyn tweeting a photo of donald trump with his thumbs up. whatever they wanted to show, they were exposed to his personality for the first time and at the end of the day, it is pretty clear to me, it helped. michael, everybody loves a winner. they do those polls. let's say there is a 10-point spread. do you have that same rosy, carnation like -- question.hat's a good i think the polling helped him. the narrative going into that wasing was donald trump getting trumped by hillary

clinton, he was getting beaten in polls before that meeting. when that hit, it sent a thisrent message ,wow, thing could be competitive. some of us have said, i see this as a 50/50 race right now. it's an opportunity for candidates who are both are flawed, who have popularity problems, as we all know -- yeah, i think it would be a slower response, but i think it helps. mark: it helped a time. i think that is the biggest lucky has had since becoming the presumptive nominee. it changed the hold psychology. donny: anytime the numbers starts to -- numbers start to shift trump's direction, people put their heads in the sand. when the polls move with this candidate, it will start to become fait accomplis. campaiasie, the trump

gn, do you think that they had a good week? or they still looking for divisions in the republican party? kasie: they are trying to push this narrative that the divided andarty is will continue to be divided. clintonlenge for the campaign will be pushing back against whatever it is donald trump tries to sell as the new version of himself to read you're already seeing these rest releases over and over again with his comments on muslim for example. in are seeing releases that some ways feel like, ok, maybe you could have sent this on wednesday, but things have changed a little bit. reminding people and keeping it fresh is going to be tough. there is a challenge. a used to be she could go to aa and people would follow her ever andhe could go to chipotle

people would follow her every step. it's not going to be that way between now and november. let me ask you about the tax thing. i got a little cuckoo on "morning joe." kasie: argue always cuckoo on "morning joe?" donny: donald is a friend and i like donald. the one job of a citizen is to pay our taxes. if he cannot display his simple job as an american, he does not deserve -- trump with listen to george stephanopoulos on "good morning america." i wonder if you think he is a little rattled about what is going on. george: it does not show your tax rate, whether you pay a low tax rate -- mr. trump: i fight very hard to pay as little tax as possible. i have said that for two years. this country waste our tax --

wastes our tax money. they throw down the drain. george: what is your tax rate? mr. trump: that's none of your business. ark: the tone of that was little peevish. michael: it was peevish. i think he did not expect it. but it resonates around the country. know when i have talked to inside washington, but out side washington, thinks this is a big deal. besides, what do you think it is going to do? what is it going to change? after everything donald trump has said -- you think that's going to be the kryptonite? donny: if you paid 12%, nobody cares. that is what rich ties do -- you paid 0%, but if to charity -- that is in the murmurs.

you've got the fake pr guy, the guy who is basically not showing his tax returns. you make the unknown so shaky -- it's not the tax returns. it is what is it about the person? michael: you are speculating yourself into a tizzy. not a tizzy. i'm cuckoo, not tizzyish. what is your sense about the wall street journal story and whether they were surprised it did not get as much attention? kasie: it was a major distraction for the clinton campaign. the details of today's story, and it is published here and every place aside, if there are stories like this continually between now and november, the campaign will be putting the energy where it needs to be in that is donald trump. if it's a persistent issue, it

will be a problem in the long term. what michael steele was talking about is right. they think this is going to be a very close election, and to a certain extent, there are major question marks. they are not focused 100% is a day that is not as good as it could be. what let me ask you about you just said. imc confused about where clinton's allies are on this. do you think that it will be a close election or do they think they will break his back and blow him out? in a: i think they are wait and see mode. i think the polling this far out -- they are waiting to see what pac'slied groups, super will do over the summer to attack trump and go after him. but i do think they think it is very important they say now it will be a close election because complaisance he is their enemy is theiromplacency enemy. if the voters think, oh, she has got this, and they want to

prevent that starting now. he had an extreme a good week. i wonder if he calls and says, what should i be concerned about , what would you put on that list right now? michael: that he redirects the brand message. that he gets back on talking about policy to the extent that he can and bring that back to get off thetion, conversation about who doesn't like him, what percentages are against him and focus on a forward-looking message as he enters the campaign and as the course corrected throughout the campaign. if he does that, he can build up these positive weeks going forward. ?onny: can i ask you a question do you think he has the ability to go deep on policy? of businesspe leader -- i have met the ceo before -- they do not have the ability or desire to go anywhere but up here.

some guys just don't -- they have add. mark: i will tell you, i have had talks with him on things like nato where he goes deeper issues than each of the public. he understands a lot of issues well, much better than he lets on. donny: why wouldn't he? mark: maybe he will. maybe is waiting to do it in the debate sensed on hillary clinton clinton? areillary we done, guys? i'm asking the guys in the control room. when we come back, donald trump says data targeting voters is "overrated." our guest evaluates that analysis. if you're watching us and washington, d.c., you can now listen to us on the radio in the district. we will be right back. ♪

week, donald trump made headlines with an associated press interview. he said his general election campaign will focus on his big rallies rather than the data-driven in approach that helps give barack obama to the white house. our by the number segment, our political mad scientist size shy sundberg. at -- saw shocked eisenberg. , thatou think it means donald trump says he is not going to go big on data, but events? >> he sees this as a

candidate-centric persuasion exercise their mass media and that comes out of the branding, self-promotion environment he is familiar with. you think about the way he would have approached something like "the apprentice." the goal of "the apprentice" was to get in front of as many people as possible. there is no downside to put a billboard for "the apprentice" in front of people who might prefer to watch "will and is a houston is advantage to getting a get the vote out message to people who would prefer hillary clinton. it's all about realizing there are people you do not want to communicate with. donny: sasha, it's interesting. "the new york times" quantified one- he has one wayne

billion -- $1.1 billion of media exposure. equivalence.n as we have talked about on the show a lot, it will come down to a few special groups. a used to be you ran a 62nd commercial and billboards. -- it used to be you ran a 60- second commercial and billboards. sasha: it is hard to imagine you run a modern campaign without thinking about individually targeted communication. the fact that he did get through the primaries and he basically -- all of the data we talk about for targeting is most useful for direct mail, individually targeted, digital advertising, phone calls, knocking on the door. he hardly did any of that. i could the why he thinks he has a winning approach, but is very difficult in a general election environment to imagine you can rely solely on free media bait

and some kind of crudely purchased television program. mark: let's talk about scale, right? his guest events are 20,000, 30,000 people. if he starts getting venues of $80,000, events that big, is that scale so big he's not doing the same kind of targeting? candidates'oes to events? assumes it is most likely supporters and those intending to vote. candidates want to talk to people who are up for grabs or people who are passive supporters who need to be mobilized. if somebody is going to an event , they are probably likely to vote. you want to get to the people who are not ready to vote already. there's a little bit of not preaching to the converted -- mark: i will say that trump

events are differently. -- are different. people go to trump events because they're entertaining. maybe convinces them on the spot. sasha: mark, i wonder if you can do that at this scale and scope. it's pretty negligible when you compare this to these size of a direct mail or digital ad buy. donny: by the end of the primaries there will be 120 million people voting. mark: he will have to wrap it up. when we come back, mr. donny deutsch reviews the news and us. ♪

mark: in the current political climate, it feels like every week is bigger than the last, but there are almost too many news events. and of course we cover a lot of them, but we're not perfect. that is why we ask mr. donny deutsch to recap the week. take it away, donny. donny: hello, you may know me from "the today show," "morning joe" -- "donnie,"ipted comedy and of course, "the apprentice." i am on television a lot and i think a lot about television. week forbeen a wacky television news. i have some thoughts. let's start where all political new starts these days, with mr. donald trump, and even mr. trump, his interview on "this week" was a shocker when it came

to the republican party. mr. trump: does the party have to come together? i'm different grabs than anyone who has run for office. i don't think so. george: you don't think so? you see the look on george's face? that is the look of someone who ordered a reuben sandwich and was told there is no russian dressing. trump had the meet and greets with rents previous and of course paul ryan. we had great coverage. but then riffing on the comedy of immigration -- don't careham: i what your view on immigration is. if you deport my grandmother. >> i'm not going to let you go back to the airport without an answer -- >> because he's not the best

case scenario, john, that's my answer. donny: there was one story you did not cover this week. >> is hillary clinton winning the ufo demographic? get on this. aliens, martians. this is big. martian, you a want to understand who we are as a culture. the we are as a society. donny: i'm sure that democrats will have ads about donald trump guy.g as a fake pr >> john barron is on the phone for you? john? johnny boy? i have not heard from you for a while. what have you got for me? mark: donny deutsch keeping us honest.

to talkuric is here about the week. lindsey graham -- we saw there -- in an extended talk about foreign policy. i thought in a week where trump did not get enough credit for a lot of finesse moves, that was a finesse move. guest: considering how much the two men have gone through, donald trump and lindsey graham, and lindsey graham has taken every potshot he could add trump. graham even admitted he asks some pretty decent foreign-policy questions. but he will still not be voting for trump. mark: i'm not going to rule out that lindsey graham is going to say, you know what, trump is the best. katy: you know what is surprising for someone who has not covered political campaigns before -- i am surprised a much

the republican party can call them dangerous, call him untrustworthy, that he is an idiot basically, and then come out and say, you know, we are going to support him. donny: you have been following donald trump around. part of it is you meet the guy and he's incredibly charming. he's a celebrity for a reason. politicians get elected and they become celebrities, ok? this happened organically. he has a very regal way about him. we are all humans and that is what is going to be happening more and more and more. he is the ultimate salesman and he knows how to make somebody feels peschel -- feel special. i was thinking he might win iowa. he calls me up, and he said, donny, you are one of the ones you talked me into running. i said, i never talk to you about running. he has this way. katy: he has a donny deutsch quality. mark: that is what i was going

to say. yet again he has done something we have not seen. he goes on "the today show" and talks about the man that was not his voice. this.i have seen him do pay attention to the number of times he says this is the first i am hearing about it. he did that with the voter pledge were they had everyone raise their hand. it that was one. to say he has not heard about it is quite striking considering in 1990 he did i a deposition and said, yes, sometimes i do a call them pretend i'm a pr agent called john barron. yes, he gets away with it. why does he get away with it? from talking to folks on the the, they believe not just system of washington is rigged. their day-to-day life is rigged. they call the cable company and they get an answering machine and they cannot disconnect -- they cannot let their kids go to

school with peanut butter and jelly because other kids might get it. the minutia of the day-to-day life, they think what has happened to this country? donald trump is coming out and say things they do not agree with, but they like that someone is saying crazy things. and they do not trust us. mark: thank you. ♪

donnya big thank you to deutsch for being it. awesome. until monday, we will see you then -- sayonara. ♪

mark: i'm mark crumpton. you are watching "bloomberg west ." let's begin with a check of your first word news. the head of homeland security says the tsa will speed up

summerto deal with the travel season. secretary johnson: we have expedited the hiring. tohave expedited the hiring bring them on this summer. projected by june 15. ,ark: in the past three years congress has cut the front line screeners by 10%. committee has open hearings that could lead to the impeachment of the irs leader. they will look at targeting of conservative groups. latimer putin is promising that russia will take steps to retain strategic parity. ministerew finance promises to reform the countr'