donny: i am donny deutsch. mark: and i'm mark halperin. "with all due respect" to what donald trump is, let's respect what he is not. >> he is not hitler. >> he is not a democrat. >> he is not a member of the political class. >> he is not a republican. >> he's not a conservative. >> i am not a politician. >> i am not a debater. >> i am not a masochist. >> i am not passive. >> no, i am not a bully. >> i am not a shrieker. >> i am not thin-skinned. >> i am not hateful. >> i am not an angry person. >> i am not an obama person. >> i'm not a fan of bernie. >> i am not an isolationist.

>> i am not stupid, okay? i can tell you that. ♪ mark: today's show is not going to start with news that donald trump is releasing names for those that he will consider for the supreme court. that is not because we don't think it's a big story. we do. we will discuss his perspective think at some length. but a testament to how bad the bad blood between hillary clinton and bernie sanders has gotten. we are leading with democratic discord. this is arguably one of the low points between team hillary and team bernie. her team has been trying to tamp down the squabble that started in nevada, when bernie sanders supporters say they were mistreated by party leadership. after pouring fuel on the fire with a strongly worded statement, sanders made it clear in carson, california that as

clinton was narrowly winning the kentucky primary, and sanders was taking oregon, that he has no plans to go away quietly. sen. sanders: the democratic party is going to have to make a very profound and important decision. it can do the right thing and open its doors and welcome into the party people who are prepared to fight for real economics and social change. [applause] mark: sanders' campaign manager jeff weaver continues to criticize debbie wasserman schultz. you know it is a bad day for democrats when the headlines about the fight include words like "chaos" and "tensions explode." how big is hillary's bernie problem? donny: huge. hillary is starting to not feel like a closer. she's playing a different game here.

look at the last 24 hours. donald trump went on megyn kelly, a barbara walters type interview with his old adversary. they made nice. today he comes out very presidentially, with a very credible list of supreme court justice candidates. at the same time, hillary cannot put bernie away. more than anything, if i am going to give away the headline today, one candidate looks like a winner, and the other doesn't. the other problem is that the continuing message of bernie is the same message of trump. the system is rigged against you. and hillary is the system. as long as bernie is around, he is doing trump's dirty work. this is a bad moment in time for hillary. mark: no doubt. they are going to the convention to fight, to change the rules of the democratic party. to fight against what they think is bad against the democratic brand.

they are not going to unify. and that is not going to change. you want to be a happy warrior. but that is not just happy, it's also warrior. she can't put away bernie sanders. not while she has trouble with trump in these national polls. donny: the scary thing about bernie sanders is that he is 74 years old. he is an angry old man. we would still have ted cruz around if he was older. when you are not worried about the next race, you just don't give a crap about anything anymore. even when he does technically lose the nomination, you just

wonder what he's going to be doing. mark: his supporters don't look at the clintons as a good second choice. they see them as part of the democratic party they don't care about. she can smooth this out, but it will be a lot tougher. donny: in case this wasn't enough bad news, the democratic front-runner woke up to troubling headlines. according to a new poll, clinton is now neck and neck with trump. a much closer race than the hypothetical matchup between trump and bernie sanders. in that head-to-head, sanders leads by double digits. what explains this? 3 big things we found fascinating. 1, a high percentage of men still don't like clinton. in these matchups, trump beats clinton. number 2, trump beats both clinton and sanders among young voters ages 18-29. independents favor bernie sanders over donald trump in a hypothetical november matchup. what these voters don't seem to shift to clinton if she is the democratic nominee. sanders beats trump by nearly 20 points. but clinton loses.

new hampshire only has 4 electoral votes. it has a hard senate race. you have independence going in one direction, and about 80% of young voters give hillary a highly unfavorable. wow. mark: you never want to overreact to one poll. but this is a statement it seems seeing them up close. that i get she's doing so poorly with young people, it doesn't mean that she won't win in new hampshire. i can't imagine a worse thing. there are plenty of new hampshire democrats that are worried about trump' s appeal to independents in that state. donny: this is the scary thing for hillary. it's only may. her big issue is that she is untrustworthy and not very likable.

you are not going to move that. trump's big issue is temperament. you can move that. the scary part is that the numbers are not lining up strong with her. if i have to move the handles on each of these, hers is a much tougher foosball handle to maneuver. mark: the clinton people claim they don't. 80% of young people have an unfavorable view of her. even if the poll is 20 points off, as a snapshot of where she is, that is mind-boggling. if you think about the popularity of barack obama with young people, she has to ask yourself fundamental questions. she's had to do it vis-a-vis sanders. to lose to donald trump amongst young people in new hampshire. i can't imagine a single poll result that i would find more cautionary. >> that the independents switch from sanders to trump is stunning. the only two things they have in common is that they are not the status quo, and that they are angry.

policy was, they don't line up anywhere. mark: one poll, but not an insignificant one. up next, we talk about the list of potential supreme court justices that donald trump without. after these words from our sponsors. ♪ mark: 11 names are on donald j.

trump's list of supreme court nominees. the presumptive nominee released his picks, including 3 women, 8 men, more than half from from midwestern states like iowa.

he put up his names to calm conservatives that are concerned about his constitutional credentials. how did he do with his list? donny: the heritage foundation will be pretty happy. right off of their website. he put a list together that nobody can argue with as far as prior-- the far right will be happy about the candidates. beyond the appointees, all trump has to do now is act typical. he did something that a political science student could put together. mark: this is an issue that the right cares a lot about. for a lot of those that are worried about trump, if they say okay, if trump picks from this list, that is enough. they can get rid of all the

reservations. the battle cry will be, you might have reservations about trump, but do you want to give up the branch for a generation? donny: i throw in the devil's advocate. they are never voting for hillary. so strategically, why not go more moderate? then you will pick up so many more swing voters. mark: this is a flag you have to wave for a certain type of voter. the delegates will like this list. it has been denounced by one of the leading liberal voices in judicial battles. it also speaks to a certain type of conservative, a bedrock principle about constitutionalism. i think it is a smart list for trump politically. he will take heat, but in the left-right world, that is the heat you take. donny: we have lost count of all the things donald trump has said

about foreign policy. he called nato obsolete. he praised russia strongly. he announced an america first message. the presumptive republican nominee added another page to his atypical trump doctrine in which he told reuters he would be happy to open up talks to north korean leader kim jong-un about their nuclear program. trump also told a reporter he has never been to iraq. and jokingly said the most threatening place he has been was brooklyn, new york. he mentioned ferguson, missouri, which he called "among the most dangerous in the world." he has holding a meeting with henry kissinger. mark, are any of these a risk for trump? or do most of them play into this?

mark: most americans are not happy with how things are going overseas. all the clinton fans say, this is irresponsible, you can't possibly say that trump knows what he is doing. i talked to trump about nato. some of his positions are fast and loose. some are not only thoughtful, but personally reasonable positions to take. barack obama said he would meet with foreign leaders, and hillary sutton said the same thing. that is a different style leadership. donny: i think the wackiest of the wacky -- john, don't worry, this is the last day i'm here. [laughter] but basically arming south korea with nukes.

that, to me -- huh? what? he is that nicholson character. you need me on that wall. you might not want to talk to me at those dinner parties. but part of his women problem can be solved with smart foreign policy. i think he will start to chip away at his woman issue with very strong very aggressive, even perhaps credible old-school thinking. in a weird way, those work together. mark: i think in the daily back-and-forth, it won't matter. if he says something that is deemed completely out of bounds in the debates on foreign policy, that can be a big problem. donny: out of bounds versus ignorant. there is a difference -- people expect him to be out of bounds. if he does a sarah palin, that is when you go, wait a second. mark: i agree, ignorance more than wacky.

there was plenty of buildup to what turned out to be a relatively tame interview between donald trump and megyn kelly. cbs quickly stole the spotlight this morning airing their conversation with trump's daughter ivanka. >> i found it to be pretty disturbing based on the facts. obviously, i very much know them. both in the capacity as a daughter and as an executive that has worked alongside him. he is not a groper. that is not who he is. i have no my father my whole life. he has told respect for women. when i think about myself as feminist, it's important that women are treated equally. he treats women and men equally. >> polls show that he has a 69%

unfavorable rating among women. how would he change that? ivanka: you would have to ask him. he is running his campaign. i think people are just starting to see who he is. the race is different now. i think people will be able to see the softer side of. mark: you and i have talked about ivanka. it's not the most original statement to make. but people are impressed by her. how big an asset do you think she will be the rest of the way? donny: i lived in the building with ivanka for several years. i say this as a 50-year-old man, she is one of the most impressive human beings i've met in my life. poised, something marketing, in charge, elegant. mark: 360 degree awareness of what is going on. donny: number one, trump is her dad.

i know the other kids also. i said this on "morning joe" the other day. trump is a feminist in the most important way. yes, he says some things, but in a strange way, that is equal opportunity. i am going to insult just like i insult men. i am not condoning it. but she is a stunning example of this. we have never seen in our adult life an offspring in a campaign with the power that this woman will have. mark: and her own celebrity. he has 5 kids. i think they will be foolish if they don't put her front and center at the convention. people are talking about trump speaking every night. i would have her speak every night. she is a national brand who is the best validator her dad could possibly have. she's got a 360 degree of understanding about the world

and of this race. donny: if i am donald trump, i would say, this could be the future president, my daughter. up next, we will talk democratic congressman tim ryan. more about his party after this quick break. ♪ mark: joining us from capitol

hill, the congressman from the 13th district of the buckeye state, tim ryan, a clinton supporter and superdelegate. thanks for coming back on the

show. rep. ryan: thanks for having me. mark: if bernie sanders called you and said, should i drop out or fight to philadelphia, what would you say? rep. ryan: [laughter] i would say, stay in until june. give everybody the opportunity to vote for you. they are energetic and have worked hard. but then, let's bear down and start focusing on donald trump. donny: congressman, let's assume he is going to go after that point. what does hillary need to give him to get him on board with the campaign? what is going to satiate him other than the nomination? rep. ryan: i don't know. you would have to ask bernie sanders and his crew. watching donald trump over the past few days, i hope it clears everybody eyes up to see exactly how dangerous he is. not just for our domestic economy, but for the globe.

he's talking about north korea. dismantling nato. we have enough fires in the world. we don't need a president of the united states starting war. we need a president that is putting out fire. trump continues to start these fires. that will help us as democrats be able to unite the party. that will hopefully happen as soon as these elections are over in june. mark: which of these is closer to true -- hillary clinton and bernie sanders basically agree on most major issues, but bernie sanders is too liberal to be elected president of the united states? rep. ryan: i think they agree on the principles, there is no question about it. the question is, what direction do we want to move into and the next two years? we have tremendous challenges. i think both hillary and bernie and the democratic philosophy today, especially compared to trump, are getting us ready for the new economy. if you look at 40% of net new jobs, they are coming from startups.

the top 1% of startups are creating net new jobs. hillary clinton for sure has an agenda how to get those jobs. mark: is bernie sanders more liberal than hillary clinton? rep. ryan: of course. he's a socialist. [laughter] of course he is. mark: so they agree on most major issues. rep. ryan: i said on principles. utilizing government on behalf of working-class families, making investments into the economy. of course on those principles they agreed. there is no question that a socialist is more liberal than a progressive democrat. mark: one more quick question, what is a specific position that you would say is socialist, where she is not as liberal?

rep. ryan: the college plan. there is a difference between free college and debt-free college. making sure we are able to control costs. hillary clinton has a plan where we are asking young people to have the opportunity for work-study programs. we want to make sure they walk out of college debt-free, but they might have to pay a little bit along the way. if you look at what she will provide for young people coming out of college, entrepreneurship, she provides a lot of these opportunities that will grow the economy for the millenials. that is the key, who is going to grow the economy? i think she runs circles around bernie sanders and donald trump when it comes to who is going to grow the economy and who understands what millenials need. portable pensions, portable healthcare. donny: talking about millenials, we just saw troubling numbers

where she had an 80% unfavorably in new hampshire. why are young people not only not flocking to bernie, but ostensibly just shunning her? rep. ryan: a lot of it is, they don't understand what hillary wants to do. once we communicate and we come together after the primary, by leaps and bounds, she is running circles around donald trump with millenials. the number one issue is how to bring back the economy. how do we bring back manufacturing. what is america 2.0? what is america 3.0? that is what hillary clinton is promoting for all of us, especially the millenials.

you have to work with the government. you can't have blustery statements. you need a real plan. i played a lot of football coming up. if you don't have a plan when you get out onto the football field, you are going to lose. donald trump is throwing cans in the locker room. hillary clinton has the plans ready to be executed that will help millenials grow the economy. that will be the big difference in this election. mark: congressman ryan, thank you very much. always great to talk to you. coming up, a deeper dive into the donald trump list of scotus picks. who did he choose, and what message does he hope to send with the names? we will explore when we come back right after this. ♪ iaae-m"

mark: donald trump release the names of 11 people he says he would consider for the supreme court. here to discuss if his picks will be enough to pacify nervous conservatives is pete williams, making his debut on this program, which has us overjoyed. thank you for joining us. pete: you have a very low overjoyed threshold. mark: no, this is a joy for us. which of the names jump out as symbolically important or interesting to think about what signals they send. heat: trump has already --pete: trump has already said he would consider a few of the names put on the list by president george w. bush. this is a little unusual -- judge sykes was once married to milwaukee talkshow host charlie sykes. in prior is among the most conservative. the other five are state supreme court justices, including the brother of ted cruz's biggest

senate supporter. mark: it is a pretty blue-chip list. it seems these are all names of people who conservatives can look at and get the exact signal trump wants to send. they could be seen in the mold of scalia in terms of judicial philosophy, right? pete: yes, and i suppose the trump people will be pleased by the response they are getting. conservatives are saying that it is a good list but wondering if they can trust trump to stick with it. liberals are saying this is a terrible list, which i assume will be pleasing to trump people. i assume it will appeal to people who find a satisfactory and perhaps reassure others in the party because not of these

people on the list are so far out that they are beyond the conservative mainstream. mark: are there any names that do not appear on the list that jump out at you? pete: there are several names you would think would be on any public and list -- the former solicitor general under george w. bush, now in private practice, one of the most prominent supreme court litigators. he argued the hobby lobby case and represented house republicans opposed to same-sex marriage. bret cavanaugh, a former clerk to justice anthony kennedy, former deputy to ken starr during the clinton administration. in the white house counsel's office under george w. bush. teen of other appeals court judges, tom griffith of the d.c. circuit. some of those names were on the heritage foundation list that came out earlier this year that trump's people said they looked at. mark: there is a range of ages here, but it seems to me some of

the people he left off are on the younger end of names that people consider. is that a big issue for conservatives, that they want the next republican president to nominate younger justices so they can stay on the bench for a longer time? pete: absolutely. i would say this is really not a federalist society list -- that has been one of their things, to put younger people, get them nominated to the courts of appeals. if you look at recent democratic nominees, they are all pretty young. of course, john roberts was young when he was nominated as well. that has been the trend -- to try to get younger justices on so they can serve longer. one surprising name on this list, one of the state supreme court justices on the list -- maybe he is on because he is a

prolific tweeter, but his tweets have pretty much been anti-trump. he sort of mocks trump and says it would be -- it would bring tears to your eyes if you could see his list of potential nominees and now i are one. mark: either they did not know or they have a twisted sense of humor. donny: is this the one area where a lot of people feel trump is a moderate? or do you think he is just putting this list out and once he is president, he will just do whatever he pleases? mark: i don't remember any nominee putting out a list like this. i have heard them talk about which current or past justices they like, but i do not remember any nominee putting out a list, and it goes to the question of if trump can satisfy people with just a list as opposed to some sort of more ironside commitment. pete: it is unusual for that reason, and also, we do not know if any of the people on the list were asked by the campaign if they were willing to be

considered. the downside to having your name on this list is if he does stick with the list, there will only be one person chosen. do you want to be one of the also-rans? there are lots of questions that you mentioned a couple of them. mark: to go back to the ones that were left off, you said, i think correctly, that these are a group of mainstream, center right judges and justices, and people who conservative groups will like. is there any difference between their judicial loss of the and people he left off? are they in a sense more moderate? pete: paul clement is pretty conservative. brett kavanaugh is pretty conservative. i cannot think of something in their past that would leave them off the list. contrast that with jeffrey sutton, who is widely respected but perhaps has a stain on his record as an appeals court judge who thought obamacare did meet

the constitutional test. that is why you would expect him to not be on the list. mark: thank you. great to have you on. hope to have you back a lot. up next, harold ford junior, casey hunt stopped by to talk more about the presidential party chaos.

mark: casey hunt, who covers the democratic nomination fight, joins us, and a former democratic congressman, current

hillary clinton supporter. >> are you a supporter or surrogate, and what is the difference? >> not much. >> i get the talking points, but sometimes i pay attention, sometimes i don't. mark: we are talking about joe biden who said a little while ago that there is no and mental split within the democratic party and he thought bernie should be able to run his race, but he is confident if hillary clinton wins, he will be supportive. kerry: i do not think the split is at the end of the day is fundamental. i think there are a lot of independents out there who are supporting bernie and you are hearing a lot of noise from them. some of them are getting very upset about process, which is in many ways the opposite of what bernie sanders has always said. i don't know if you have ever been yelled at for asking bernie sanders a process question. i think bernie sanders, over the

last 24/48 hours has increased the risk. i'm not sure yet to what degree, but i think it's worse now than it was 48 hours ago. >> bernie sanders has every right to continue in the race if he wants, but if he is serious about what he said the other night, which is he does not want to see donald trump be reelected, that he would id., i think he said, if he is going to let a billionaire pretender represent the interests of the middle class, he has to recognize he does not have a shot at winning. two, he has some responsibility to come some of his supporters down. there's no problem being passionate, but it reaches a point where it has to be stopped. if he wants a few more people on the committee, wants a few more people to be in the room to hammer out the right kind of messaging around income inequality, a group of people to talk about college in affordability, let's have the conversation as a party. there's no reason to have this

kind of risk continue if we can avoid it. >> the problem is not bernie -- bernie sanders is not hillary clinton's problem. hillary clinton is hillary clinton's problem. >> the problem is when you go to sell hillary, the only place to go is to sell fear of trump, and when you come back to hillary, it is this piece of clay were there is nothing to work with because people do not want to they do not trust her. there is nothing in her dna -- you just talked about brand attributes. there is no attribute to sell other than selling against trump. >> i disagree. i think the attribute of experience -- >> but that is a negative. >> i think there will come a point where there will be some want for that. if we do not get back to the experience republicans, then you are right. >> you sound a lot like jeb bush

supporters. >> how has the california primary shakeup where sanders has put in a fair amount of time and has drawn big crowds? >> i think california could turn out to be a bigger story than many people assumed it would be because there has been a general sense that the race is over and it's just a matter of her buttoning it up. i know from pulling on both sides that it's close enough that this could be a race where bernie sanders wins out. for democrats, it's partly open so if you show up at the polls and you are not registered or unregistered independent, you can do that at that point, but that is a wildcard. it is different than she has faced or than we have seen a lot of in this contest. it is both diverse and has a potentially open primary, so a little bit of a wildcard. sanders is going to go camp out there for the next couple of weeks. when i was covering rallies in california, the crowds are huge, and they were more diverse than what we have seen in other states. mark: going on television in california is a major

commitment. any sign either will do that? if not, what is the campaign about? >> both sides are still debating how to go on tv or if they should. spanish language media would be less expensive than english language and they could potentially try to exploit it if they wanted to, but that is potentially the question. the sender's campaign has been putting one of their best organizers on the ground. for them, it's a question of if it was too little, too late. mark: how does she create good news? >> having she has to continue to

do what she is strongest at, which is to be a policy wonk. if people do not come around, i think we will have a real problem in the camp. >> i don't think it would hurt for her to give a serious policy address around income growth around the things she plans to do. >> if we get two weeks before the election, unfortunately in these news cycles, we are not going to start the top of the show that way. that's the problem -- where she lives is not where the media lives and more importantly is not where voters want to be. by the way, everything bernie sanders is saying does not make sense. free college does not make sense. it does not matter. people want to hear it. i don't know what i would do as hillary at this point. >> donald trump is making the case he would represent middle-class interest more. you can contrast what he has

done in the middle class and what she has done in the public policy space. i think there is a way to do it and exploit her strength around walker this and she has not figured that out yet -- exploit her strength around wonkishness. >> donald trump has a huge image problem. how do you rebrand him? >> his big issue is temperament, but you can move temperament, just like he did today. a very intelligent republican list. her issue of non-trust establishment. i'm a marketing guy. forget who i like and do not like, i can move trump in the public consciousness easily. she is too big, and that is the problem. mark: the culture in this campaign is the same as the obama culture was. are they genuinely worried? i know from my reporting that some of them are, but day to day the people you're dealing with, are they worried or do they think it is overblown? the notion that she has to

continue to go to the convention while trump seems to be in some ways unifying the republicans. >> i would say there is a general wariness about how this plays out between now and july and i think the question really is how long this lasts. i think everyone is resigned to the idea that bernie sanders is going to go through june 7, june 14 when d.c. votes, and then make the decision. i think the question is what bernie sanders does to land the plane, if anything, and that is a wildcard that is enough still to give people paused in the clinton campaign. >> one word -- debates. she has to get through debates. >> think about this -- four weeks ago, we were all sitting around saying it could be an open, fractured, fragmented convention for republicans and democrats would have a different conversation.

i think you have to put her in her strength lane, which is issues and wonkishness. mark: thank you both. coming up, donald trump's relationship with rupert murdoch and fox news. right after this. if you are watching us in washington, d.c., you can now listen to us on the radio. we will be right back.

>> when you look back on the past nine months from that first debate until now, any regrets? trump: overall, i have to be

happy with the outcome. if i did not conduct myself in the way i have done it, i do not think i would have been successful, actually. kelly: have you given any thought to the power that your messaging has? trump: i have, and i see tremendous suffering and i understand. i have a very big heart. mark: that was a fun size byte of donald trump's interview with megan kelly that aired last night. pretty chummy relationship with both foxnews and rupert murdoch and his empire, national affairs editor, the author, james sherman. thanks for coming in. you have another great piece inside fox talking about why rupert murdoch has basically thrown in which from. >> business. trump is the republican nominee,

and he has to get on board. during this whole feud, the audience was totally on trump's side. it was really only a select group of fox anchors, mainly in washington, who was this anti-trump crowd. now that trump is the nominee, the network has to get behind him because that is what the audience wants. >> is it true that whenever fox would do an anti-trump segment, the numbers would come down? >> during megan kelly, all of the e-mails and tweets that fox was getting were taking trump's side and megan kelly was worried about the volume of e-mails and death threats she was getting for challenging trump. this is what the base, what our audience wants. >> interestingly enough, obviously politically, he lines

up with trump, but foxnews would do better over the next four years with hillary because then they are the guys throwing the stones. they always do better then. for a long-term play, one could argue for viewership. >> that is a good point. i think it is a win-win. rupert gets behind trump in the general. if trump wins, he has a line into the administration, and if he loses, fox has a ready-made opposition. the audience is already galvanized to oppose hillary. "the new york post," also a murdoch poverty, is also on board. when he bought "the wall street journal" he did say they would have more of an independent special relationship. he has honored that. when the rest of the murdoch constellation is getting behind trump, how can they circle on.

>> it seems to me when trump was doing these hardball negotiations, he should say to them, "i hate the wall street journal" and tell them to fix it. >> in my sitdown with trump, he was ranting about a "wall street journal" editorial. he wants to bring them to heal. that would be an amazing victory for him. >> if these negotiations go the way they seem to, i would say i'm not doing any more fox until you guys fix the journal. >> maybe he is watching. mark: if you are an independent, is there any negative for trump that murdoch is saying now this is the machine? you talk about things being rigged. now we are starting to get rigged. is it counterintuitive when he talks about saving the little guy from his rigged system? >> the audience wants to see fox cheerleading for him.

last night was a bad night for megan kelly. she had staked out her brand, her public image as the loan fox anchor who would stand up to trump in a kind of vocal way. >> i could not agree with you more, but could she get him back more on her show? >> she had such a great place as a woman, as a lone wolf. as the anti-trump, she could have written her own ticket. >> got to go. thank you, as always. thanks for being here. we'll be right back.

mark: i want to say briefly to people on twitter who think we are overstating hillary clinton has problems why they are wrong. donny: they are very, very wrong. this thing is moving in the trump direction. if i were her, i would be scared. mark: bloomberg.com has some great stories. coming up on bloomberg tv, cory johnson speaks to google's head of virtual reality on "bloomberg west." we will be back here tomorrow. ♪

thursday, the 19th of may. i am rishaad salamat. this is "trending business". ♪ right, singapore and tokyo this hour. ,uzuki in the fast lane recovering losses from its fuel efficiency in missions. using a wind tununnel to measure consumption rather than real-world conditions.