♪ announcer: from our studios in new york, this is "charlie rose." charlie: we begin with politics. hillary clinton delivered a highly anticipated speech on foreign policy. she went on the offensive against donald trump, portraying him as unfit for the presidency. mrs. clinton: donald trump's ideas are just different, they are dangerously incoherent. they are not even really ideas. just a series of bizarre rants, personal feuds and outright lies. [cheering]

mrs. clinton: he is not just unprepared, he is temperamentally unfit to hold an office that requires knowledge, stability and immense responsibility. charlie: house speaker paul ryan pledged his support for donald trump in a column. he wrote it is a question of how to move ahead on the idea that i and my house colleagues have invested so much in through the years. joining me now are the managing editors of bloomberg politics. allthe co-hosts of "with due respect." i am pleased to have them back on this program. tell me, what are the implications of this speech? mark: i'm not saying she won the

election, but today will be looked as an important day. she show the ability to define trump with humor and intellect, and emotion, and confidence. better than she has in the campaign to date. it showed that she is willing to take him on assertively in a way that will inspire her current followers and get her additional ones. it is not over but she did a very good job. she did a very good job of laying out the stakes of the race for commander in chief in a way that will be appealing to a lot of people in terms of how she did it and the material she used. john: i think it is not just this day. this week has been an important week. you have seen trump being taken on on the trump university stuff and not doing a good job on defense. seeming on his back foot. you see her coming out and giving this speech, which was billed as foreign policy but it was really just a kind of

all-out assault on trump delivered with the skill that mark described. you also saw president obama take donald trump on. the last 24 hours, president obama was very good, taking on donald trump. hillary clinton, very good taking on donald trump. although trump will surely reply in more detail than he has he is out there tweeting and saying lying hillary. crooked hillary. the stature gap seemed large today. this argument on commander in chief is maybe the strongest argument she has. it is the basic question people who are movable have. is donald trump fit to be, up to being presidential? commander-in-chief. going straight at

him. charlie: this is beginning to be a referendum on him, if it continues. mark: our colleague on fox news said something smart. she said trump is going from a company that has been private going public. if you look at the question of is he fit to be commander and chief and the trump university stuff, these are not issues that would, and have the same relevance if he were a private citizen. now he is trying to be president trump. in this context, these attacks on the business record, on whether he is up to the job, it requires a more public response that he is giving. he succeeded being untraditional. but there are certain things the clinton campaign is betting a majority of americans want done in a traditional manner. if you are sued you have to respond in a somewhat a traditional manner. if you are commander in chief you have to behave in a traditional manner.

she is betting the country will look at the portrait and make a referendum on him. mark: it just shows you he was not really called on to behave as a republican candidate. this last 36 hours has revealed in a stark way how weak his opposition was when he was running for the republican nomination. no republican attacked him from a position of authority -- none of those other campaigns you there had or deployed an effective way on the questions that have been raised by trump university in the way the clinton campaign, she has had many problems and still has problems but that is a professional, large well-managed operation armed with a lot of money and a lot of research. none of his opponents were like that. he is in a different world, not just a different electorate, but

up against a different opponent. mark: it was reminiscent the way bill clinton or barack obama would go after donald trump. it was very authoritative, a light touch, a lot of humor, companionship with the audience. an intellectual companionship with the audience. and us against them. a "we agree this is not something that should be allowed." charlie: and there is no coherence and what he did or said. she faces the california primary. will it have an impact? mark: bernie sanders have the license to fight. she would like to spend the rest of june and most of july consolidating the party. if bernie sanders wins and decides to go on, what does his day look like? how does he spend his time after he gets rest? whatever he does, he is not going to draw as much attention.

it does mean that philadelphia is about a fight rather than about unification. charlie: what is the likelihood he could win? john: pretty good. the polling right now that shows him ahead. there has been polling in the field that has her up. it is all within the margin of error. both campaigns would acknowledge it is a total tossup. neither one of them -- he gained ground over a couple of weeks. things have leveled to the point they are going to fight this out and whoever wins will win by a narrow margin. charlie: at this moment it is up for grabs. john: 100%. mark: she will have the most thegates, she will have won popular vote. have won the most

states. but the symbolism of his beating her in california will cause him despite pressure to get out. she will give them 48 hours, she will say we have to come together, i don't rule out that he just gives up. it doesn't feel that way. charlie: what can donald trump do if in fact what she did today has the impact you are suggesting? mark: there are a lot of structural problems. despite paulse ryan's endorsement today. the donors, the bundlers. the super pac situation is not sorted out. which is the official trump super pac? is there a dissension within the states? then i think he needs to say what he is going to be on offense on. right now it involves a personal insult, criticizing hillary clinton's style. she is on offense on some things.

thing. trump university what is he going to drive every day in a consistent way? certain things are just true. he needs a daily discipline both positive and negative. charlie: thank you. back in a moment. stay with us. ♪

♪ charlie: we continue with the ongoing battle for fallujah. despite advances in the surrounding countryside, iraqi forces have encountered resistance. the offensive is backed by airstrikes. isis fighters have control of the city for two years. it occupies an important place. us-led effort to clear in 2004 is considered the bloodiest battle of the iraq war. joining me now is david petraeus. he is a retired four-star general and the director of the cia. he served in 2003 and commanded coalition forces from 2007-2008. today he is chairman of the kkr global institute. i am pleased to have him back at this table. welcome. mr. petraeus: great to be back with you. charlie: put it in context in

the battle against isis in iraq. mr. petraeus: it has always been quite symbolic. it was the first city that fell that fell to iraq forces. the first meaningful city that fell when they swept back into iran. charlie: a lot of isis people came from al qaeda and iraq. mr. petraeus: -- and it is in the heart of the sunni province of an bar, one of the few centers controlled by the islamic state. this is a big deal. it is a short drive from western baghdad. so, very important battle. what you have is a combination of all of the different elements of iraq. you have iraqi army elements.

you have iraqi special operations forces, special operations forces, police. federal police. keep in mind it is a sunni arab city. we have some sunni tribal fighters as well. all of this. the city has been and circled for some time. circled -- encircled for some time. it is cut off. by the way you have perhaps as many as 45,000 iraqi civilians still in the city. in some cases being used as shields. this is already taking on barbaric aspects if you will. the use of civilian shields, executing civilians -- what is remarkable so far i think is the resilience of the islamic state fighters. charlie: who far outnumber them.

20,000 plus. mr. petraeus: they have been encircled for some time. they have to know there is no way out. charlie: in terms of iraqi soldiers. mr. petraeus: tens of thousands. and yet they have continued, continuing to fight for a number of reasons. one is just very harsh discipline. we shoot you if you try to surrender. they have done some of that. the extremism has motivated people to join the islamic state in the first place. truees not ring quite as as it did when they were in a living room in europe and volunteered to do this. nonetheless this has continued to stay in the fight. charlie: it is important because it not only is close to baghdad, it will be a psychological victory as well, how does it correct to syria? mr. petraeus: it is largely isolated now. the iraqis have largely severed

the routes that go along into syria and they were able to clear the route that goes all the way to jordan in this vast anbar province. so, this is more of the in isolated outpost of the islamic state. it has been a place from which probably a number of car bombs that have blown up in baghdad have emanated. where they have been constructed. as in a lot of the villages, dozens have been cleared in the last week or two. until you take fallujah, now that the prime minister of iraq has committed you are not going to be able to do more in mosul in terms of further shaping. certainly, we are shaping the battlefield in muzzle that has mosul that has been cut off.

nearly 15 airstrikes at multiple targets. they are getting hammered. charlie: airpower is a factor here. mr. petraeus: and a bit of iraqi firepower, and by and large this is a u.s. intelligence driven effort that employees predominantly u.s. but coalition and iraqi -- charlie: you are the commanding general, responsible for these men and women in this battle. you want to take this city. what calculations enter your mind as terms of how you do it and when you do it? mr. petraeus: you don't want to destroy the city to save it. there have been some cases in the clearance where an enormous distraction has been done to some of the cities that have been liberated. you also don't want to kill the civilians left there. they have been unable to get

out. the islamic state has prevented them from evacuating the city. they have prevented the red cross from getting supplies to them. there is an urgency because the longer this goes on the more the civilians are going to suffer. say, they are not getting whatever limited water and other sources are left in fallujah. it could be as many as 500,000. charlie: you have a conflict between the shia militia and iraqi army? mr. petraeus: there is a potential for conflict between the militia and the sunni tribal fighters. between the militia and some of the other iraqi units. more importantly, the potential for conflict, which is fearful of these militias. afraid that they are going to bear some of the brunt of what takes place here as well.

charlie: you say the militia is backed by the iranians. are the iranians present? are they engaged? mr. petraeus: yes, the commander of the force in iran, u.s. designated, he has been pictured with a number of the iraqi militia leaders, including the individual designated as a terrorist, he seldom if ever set foot in iraq. when i was a commander of the surge. week as he was in a he knew if he came into a rack we would he was in irane if he came into hunt him down.

it gives you a sense of the dynamics. some of these militia leaders are members of parliament. back in my time they were in a detention facility. this is the situation. there is a imperative to clear fallujah. different groups are leaving the parliament. they don't come back until the first of july. he has a window to show some progress and perhaps boost himself and his own abilities. charlie: when i talked to the president in hanover, germany he talked about the fact he was trying to get the support for government in baghdad from the european allies. that was one of his objectives. has this prime minister, and you have suggested the politics is an important element. mr. petraeus: it is the center of gravity. as i told you months and months ago, the islamic state will be defeated in iraq. that is not in question. the question is whether iraqi politics can enable these games to be sustainable without waging war.

you have to get the sunnis back into the fabric of society as we did in the surge. charlie: my question, is america supporting because he is making an effort to come to some kind of understanding with the sunni tribes? mr. petraeus: yes. the question is, he knows what needs to be done. he has stated it. he has pursued operations of the big ideas he has. the question is if he can get sufficient political support in a country that is majority shia arab, and where the shia militias have quite a bit of sway in parliament as well as on the streets in other respects. charlie: are the sunni tribes engaged in this conflict? mr. petraeus: to a degree. in the anbar province and in other areas. part of the problem here has been that there has been a fractious nature. most cannot agree with the treaties -- the politics are

very, very difficult. the president's right to seek as much coalition support for the prime minister, who is endeavoring to be inclusive, which is what is required to bring iraq back together. charlie: how many american special forces are there? 5000? mr., close to petraeus: i don't know the exact number. i think the number is as high as five. it depends on your accounting rules and how you count the counterterrorism forces. charlie: what are they doing? mr. petraeus: there is a train and equip mission that is behind iraqis to goning into these fights. there is an advise and assist component that is creeping closer to the front lines. we've had a couple of individuals tragically killed in recent months. i think this is right. we have tried how we can do this. we are advising lower-level

units again, which is appropriate. that is enabling us to bring our air assets to bear. in a much more effective way. charlie: what more would you be doing? mr. petraeus: to be fair, the efforts in iraq and syria was under resourced and overregulated. it is much less overregulated now. there have been relaxations. i called for these on your show before. relaxations on the application of the rules of engagement. in the bureaucracy in that enables approval of strikes and so forth. so that you have less planes returning with their bombs still on. they are taking advantage of the opportunities that presents themselves. there has been the addition of a

special forces element that is going after the leaders of the islamic state and making considerable gains in that regard. the addition of 250 more special operations forces in syria to help with that. and of course, by the way, less publicized is the effort that is ongoing there to take a pocket which is the link between turkey and rocca, the capital of the islamic state. and that would be a stride they are. ongoing --ortant charlie: should there be, and should we expect for there to be a move against rocco? mr. petraeus: there will be eventually. charlie: i mean now. mr. petraeus: i don't know you will see. you will see in the coming months. right now you have to shape this in the same way falluja has been shaped, you keep doing this so that you have it isolated. there is a lot of work that needs to be done to isolate rocca and generate the forces that can ultimately hold rocca.

you can clear it with the syrian kurds but you don't want to push them farther than the areas they should control. and if you go into a sunni arab predominant area, you are going to have to have sunni arab forces. there are forces that if you enable them and support them as we have begun to do much more resolutely in recent months, with more resources, i think they will rally to that flag. i should add one of the unintended consequences in syria in particular, is that because of the pressure on the islamic state from us, from syrian forces, from russian airstrikes and so forth is that some of , their forces are defecting to the al qaeda affiliate and that is going to be the focus of attention at some point.

man, howas a military important is it for the iraqi forces in iraq when they are attacking falluja and other places as they gain ground to take and hold. mr. petraeus: you have got to hold. it is a recipe for disaster. there were episodes where we were in iraq and would clear and handoff prematurely. it is not just about clearing. it is about having a force that can hold them. it is beyond that. it is how do you rebuild. the reconstruction. the iraqis have to have something that we didn't do real well. what do you do when you are in charge? what will be the local governance that will administer this? provide grievance resolution and local dispute resolution and so forth. the basic services that need to be restored. imagine the damage when this is

done, even with the precision weaponry we are using. there is still going to be damage. charlie: i want to come back to syria. you have said there are five things we should learn from the arab spring. mr. petraeus: ungoverned spaces in the islamic world will be exploited by the islamic state or other extremist groups. second, the effects of these groups, the implications will be be contained. you can't admire this problem until it goes away. you have to do something about it. in doing something about it u.s. leadership is absolutely imperative. it is indispensable. it doesn't mean we do it alone. we get the coalitions partners. this is more of a fight. if you think it is a clash within a civilization even more -- clash withlass

a civilization. mr. petraeus: this is a fight within the islamic world. charlie: is it a fight between the iranians and the saudi's and those who support shiites? mr. petraeus: that's another whole dimension. this is about extremists who really want to hijack in particular the sunni areas of the world. the fourth lesson is exercising our leadership we have to have a comprehensive approach. that doesn't mean we have to do everything in that comprehensive approach but we have to do more than just throwing strikes and raids by counterterrorism forces. you have to have all of the other components of a civil military campaign. ideally as this is happening in iraq, the host nation provides the combat ground forces. it does the reconciliation between the factions. the host nation provides reconstruction.

although we are going to have to provide some resources for that. perhaps most importantly we have to acknowledge this is a generational struggle. we used to say this is a marathon, not a sprint. this is an ultramarathon. we're going to be seized with this for a long time. we have to do everything we can to be as cost-effective and efficient, and is careful in losing our young men and women. charlie: what is possible between now and the time this president hands over the presidency to a new president in 2017? mr. petraeus: in an ideal world, from the perspective the -- perspective of the administration, you would have retaken mosul. would like to have taken rocca by that point in time. you cannot rule it out. what we have to see is how resilient can the islamic state be when they take a loss after loss?

you know, in the fight to baghdad, when i was privileged to command the 101st airborne division, you would have very stiff resistance for a while. battles and then all of a sudden it just collapses. when do you reach the point of collapse with islamic state or are these guys so fervent that they will fight to the death in every single case? that remains to be seen. was -- a thorn for iraq? petraeus: he was a thorn for iraq. at various times when i was a commander. we defeated his militia. charlie: is he playing a role again? mr. petraeus: he is. what is interesting as he is one of those who is not as actively supported by iran. he spent a lot of time there when i was a commander. but he has a nationalist perspective rather than one that

tilts towards iran. so, its paradoxical. charlie: a tool of the iranians? petraeus: no, everyone realizes that iran is going to have considerable influence. the iraqis accept this. they do not want to be the 51st state of iran. moqtada al-sadr has a very nationalist perspective that paradoxically actually offsets some of the perspective of the other militias and, by the way, he has got a considerable bloc in the parliament that can help this prime minister. so this is a kaleidoscope, again, of again parliamentary blocs and parties that the prime minister has to navigate, first of all, to stay in power and then to get back into the parliament building and develop enough consensus to pursue the initiatives he has. by the way, he is got significant economic challenges because of the plummeting price of oil and by the way, we are about to start ramadan. it has eased up, but still half of what it was.

by the way, ramadan starts now on the 6 of june, and it goes to the fifth of july. this is about the longest day period for the year, so it is going to be a very long day, during which individuals will fast. now, there are exceptions for the military and the police. they can drink water and eat in some cases. but this is going to be, everything slows down during that time because people become exhausted by the afternoon waiting for the breaking of the fast at sunset. and but, also, it is a period that historically has seen higher activity by islamic state. so, we should expect an increase in their terrorist activities. they are also seeking to do anything to take the pressure -- attack against, and europe, concerns about that, against the west. charlie: you are surprised at their ability to kind of to

continue fighting at the level they are because of the blows they have taken, because of land that shrinkage. effective -- because of the caliphate not being as effective of a recruiting tool. mr. petraeus: recruiting numbers are down. we talked about this before that it is important that the islamic state be shown to be a loser rather than a winner. that is why time has always mattered here. that is why the delays we saw did have consequences. but the islamic state now is a loser. and it's losing in almost every location. it is looking for new opportunities, but we've got to convince the world, if you will, certainly that which could be recruited by the islamic state, keep in mind, it is the foreign recruits that have been a lot of the cannon fodder for islamic state. charlie: turning to afghanistan. i will come back to the view of the president. how is that going? the taliban, the new leader has

been assassinated by drone. they selected a new leader. where is that? they do not seem to be of any frame of mind to negotiate this time? mr. petraeus: they have sanctuaries. the reason the strike is so important is that it is the first within pakistan. there have been strikes in the tribal areas of pakistan. but this is a strike and that's a significant development. but if it's not followed up, if there cannot be other ways to pressure the taliban senior leaders who have this sanctuary in pakistan and a sanctuary to some degree -- although we targeted them over the years -- there's no way of getting them -- charlie: in order to bring the right pressure on the taliban and they will be forced to negotiate. mr. petraeus: yes, and that is very delicate given the partnership with pakistan.

the challenge in afghanistan right now, as we have drawn down, as we have withdrawn our forces from the frontline fights, the afghan security forces have come under increasing pressure and i've advocated recently, we need to provide close air support for afghan forces in the same way that we did when they were fighting shoulder to shoulder with our forces but which we stopped doing against the taliban, although we do it against the islamic state and al qaeda. it was the taliban that allowed al qaeda to have the sanctuary in afghanistan where the 9/11 attacks were planned and where the training was conducted. charlie: as a military man, is there anything you would do we are not doing at this point, either in iraq or syria? mr. petraeus: let me talk afghanistan again. first, i would very much extend close air support to support the afghan security forces. i expect that general nicholson, the commander of the force, the coalition force in afghanistan,

will provide recommendations here in the next week or two that will caution against further drawdowns. in fact, a number of us former commanders in afghanistan, ambassadors all agreed that we'll recommend very strongly against doing that. charlie: a letter to the president? mr. petraeus: this will go to the public and so forth. but cautioned against any further drawdown. let the next president to make that decision. this fighting seems to be a tough one. helmand province in which we made such gains -- to a lesser degree than kandahar -- have been under enormous pressure by the taliban and some districts have been taken back by the taliban. there are some in the north that are very worrisome as well. we have got to watch this or else, again, you could be back in a position where afghanistan is under enormous threat. keeping in mind, again, it was

under the taliban, their control, al qaeda had the efforts there. with respect to the other locations, i think we have up gunned considerably the resources we are employing in syria, in iraq, in libya. we have actually streamlined the process of approval under the existing rules engagement for strikes. these are all, a lot of areas of progress. with increased the intelligence surveillance, reconnaissance assets, we have the ability to fuse intelligence that is unique to the united states in an industrial-strength way that we can do that. we see real progress. charlie: there was a change in strategy? mr. petraeus: i think over time there was a recognition we were not achieving, we were not where we needed to be. i said this on your show again one or two back where you asked how is it going? and i said we are not where we should be. charlie: you said if we are not

winning, we are losing. and today? mr. petraeus: i think we are starting to win, without question. we are certainly making gains. now, in fact, it actually allows us -- and requires us to focus on the real center of gravity in iraq, which is why this all went wrong in the first place, which is iraqi politics. keep in mind for 3.5 years after the surge iraq did very well. it was only when the prime minister started pursuing highly sectarian actions against the senior -- who was our partner when we did reconciliation. and undid a very historic achievement to bring his country back together and once again tore fabric of society and led to what we have. charlie: but one of the takeaways from our conversation. it is possible, possible that before this president leaves office, they could retake fallujah, mosul and rocca? mr. petraeus: i don't know if i'd bet on that. two out of three is not inconceivable. i would not rule out rocca,

because you could see some kind of perhaps collapse at some point. from theirre cut off turkish supply lines, when they a bit more.d so, you never rule that out, but certainly would not want to see. fallujah is going to go down on this president's watch. can mosul be taken down as well, and what kind of pressure can you bring on rocca? again, you just cannot focus on this. you have to keep the focus on islamic state elements in libya that became quite troublesome. you can't let the nascent islamic state in afghanistan develop any critical mass. keep an eye on yemen. he handle the rest. and all of the rest. by and large there is pretty coherent effort that is now ongoing and that is starting to bear fruit. charlie: thank you. mr. petraeus: great to be back, charlie. thanks. charlie: general david petraeus.

back in a moment. ♪

♪ charlie: mt. everest is earth's highest mountain, standing at 29,030 five feet above sea level. since the first ascent in 1953 by sir edmund hillary and tenzing norgay reaching the summit has been considered one of the greatest achievements in mountaineering. to accomplish this task without the use of supplemental oxygen is even more remarkable.

this month two american climbers attempted to do just that. together they documented their journey in real-time on snapchat under the user name everest no filter. here is a look. >> here we go. 11 miles. feels good. >> this is hair by everest. that's a new hashtag. it's a thing. it's a thing. >> i think mine is better than his. >> another himalayan sunrise. say hi to the world. snapchat, what's up? what's up? [wind blowing] >> cory and i going to sky right

-- skip right by 7-5. pin you up into the rocks. >> love 25,000 feet. oh, i'm not sure i do. but i do love that view. unfortunately a.b. had turn around a little bit early. it's up to me to hold it down. at the summit. that's summer ridge. >> the wind i'm chasing or running away from. >> cory, you're amazing! you are a machine. congratulations! charlie: ballenger was forced to turn back due to health concerns but richards reached the summit. joining me now, adrian ballenger and cory richards. it is extraordinary what you did, it really is. >> thanks. charlie: i mentioned that we

headed up there. you were forced to turn around. you told this story over and over. it was because? >> my body temperature was dangerously cold. i had hypothermia and was slurring my words. having trouble doing basic climbing functions i've been doing for decades. my body was shutting down. charlie: you have climbed the summit six times. >> all with supplemental oxygen and all while guiding, helping other people to reach the summit. so this was my first attempt to , do it without oxygen. charlie: tell me about how you came together, how you decided to do this together and how you decided to put it on snapchat. >> we actually met in 2010. i was climbing the fourth highest mountain. it's connected -- charlie: piece of cake. >> it was fun, that trip. it was fast. and i think that was when we first started talking about this. that's actually connected to everest.

it shares a common base camp on the south side. we sort of met each other, liked each other's energy. years passed, saw each other again in 2012. talked about it again. i was evacuated from everest that year. so, i was trying it without oxygen then. sort of met a poor end to that expedition. charlie: why was it so important for you and you to do it without oxygen? >> there is a purity to it. i believe rather than bringing the mountain to our level we should try to rise up to the level of the mountain. and that is not to say everybody can do that. genetically that is just not viable for everybody. but for people who can do it, i think we should try. charlie: go ahead. >> i just -- what i've seen on everest every time i go there is this human struggle. it brings out the best in people, sometimes the worst in people, but everyone up there fights so hard emotionally and physically to stand on top.

and so to attempt it without oxygen was the ultimate expression of that for cory and myself. we are genetically lucky. we climb well at altitude. we are both full-time climbers. to have attempt it was the cleanest way to try to have this experience. charlie: more than 7000 people have summited mt. everest. how many have done it without oxygen? >> less than 200. charlie: that puts you in a remarkable -- >> about a 2% window. so, i mean, honestly, running around new york city seems more taxing to me at times than climbing everest. [laughter]] >> it is a small window. charlie: why did you not make it on a previous expedition? why did you make it all other times and not make it this time? >> i mean, i think, to be perfectly honest with you, in 2012, i had a different partner. it was a different partnership.

with national geographic, photographing an article dan. i had too much -- photographing an article. i had too much pressure. i was climbing toward 7000 meters and all of a sudden i had, started having problems breathing. and so, i went down. i could not slow my respiration. and later, my doctor, she just, who runs the everest e.r., she said, you know, i don't really know how to tell you this without sounding dramatic and i'm not sure how much you want to share with people, but as far as i can tell you had a panic attack.top -- a panic a massive panic attack. and it was just too much pressure. it was too much stress. and this was all coming off an experience i had in pakistan in 2010, the winter where we had done the first winter of an 8000 meter peak. and my partners and i got hit by a massive avalanche on the way down.

and that, i was getting triggered. and really leading out of that, i discovered that i had pretty severe post-traumatic stress disorder from that avalanche. charlie: how did you overcome that? >> lots of therapy. that's true. you know, i mean, that is really -- charlie: i think you are doing a huge service by acknowledging this. >> it is a big piece of the story that nobody knows. it is something that i think is pervasive in climbing. climbing is traditionally this very manly or stoic -- you do not talk about the suffering. you just endure it. honestly, there is a lot of trauma that goes into this. the brain doesn't differentiate between traumas. it says i had a near death experience. it does not matter if you were in combat or in a car accident. and that it is something we do not discuss in our society and we think that trauma is reserved

for a combat situation and that is just not true. and many, many more people suffer from it than we really acknowledge. charlie: it is the threat of death. >> it is the threat of death. well, there's many, but the threat of death and then asphyxiation. charlie: what was different for you, other than you felt colder and you felt it threatened your very possibility? >> suddenly, the big difference was supplemental oxygen versus not. all my previous summits have been with oxygen. i always felt very within my sphere of control. that is why i was able to guide other people to the summit and feel comfortable helping them to make decisions as well as my own. this time, without supplemental oxygen, it's really difficult to describe how different it is. physically the suffering is so much greater. for me, i struggle with cold. and one of the things oxygen

gives us is it opens up our bloodstream and gives us the oxygen we need to stay warm. so, i started the summit day too cold. we spent a few hours at 8300 meters, 27,000 feet. and i was just shivering in a tent. we should not even be up there at all and we stop there for a water incho drew up to try to eat and things like that. and i was shivering that whole time. >> our doctor started suggesting i turn around three to four hours in. i went a whole nother hour to the point where i was shivering and no longer able to work with the rope. charlie: was it a hard decision or do you simply say, i'm a young man, i can do this again? >> at the time, it was not a hard decision at all. it was very clear in my mind to the point where i was going to become a fatality if i did not turn around.

charley: if you did not turn around you are going to die and you knew that. >> right. charlie: did you worry that if you continued you might, in fact, impede his success? >> i'd love to say that was front and center in my mind but it wasn't at the time. even though that is a real issue, that decision. my turning around while i could rescue under my own power let cory -- let him go with a clear conscience to the top. but at the time it was black and white that if i continue, i will not come off this mountain. charlie: what was the moment for you? >> you know, it's interesting getting to the top of these peaks. i think people expect revelation, they expect some sort of release. they expect some sort of aha moment, seeing god. yeah, you see god in the landscape, but you don't, at least i have never had that sort of opening moment. i get there, and to be perfectly

honest, i'm horrified because i'm further out at that point than i'm ever going to get, and especially on everest, you are as far out as you can get, especially without oxygen. so, to me -- charlie: you were scared to death. >> i am horrified. at that moment, i want to take some quick pictures, some bad, blurry selfies and i want to get out of here as fast as i can. charlie: and live with the memory. >> live with the memory. and i think that is also -- i am having a little bit of a hard time coming to terms with what's transpired. because i took no time to ingest it. so, the idea that i was actually there still, to me, occurs almost as a little bit of a -- a dream sequence. i don't -- i haven't let that sink in. charlie: is it hard for you to

it." through that "i did >> yes. i have not accepted that in any way, shape or form. i not sure i ever will because it was so quick. charlie: it is quick for most people, isn't it? >> i have spent as little as three minutes on the summit and as long as over an hour. with oxygen. you can take it all in. charlie: you started as friends, as fellow climbers, you started with a mission. you ended as brothers. is that too much to say? >> i would not say that is too much. i believe that is true. that is what happens -- charlie: when you face death together. when you face opportunity to gather. -- together. >> the funny thing is it is not only facing death but it is the boredom of it. it is life. it is a microcosm of life. we spent two months on the mountain and a lot of it was not that exciting. it is those moments of intenseness combined with the day-to-day grind of making an expedition like this work. and yeah, i think it is just

incredible how we worked together on the mountain. charlie: what kind of feedback were you getting? >> from each other? charlie: from people talking to you. >> that was part of the beauty of snapchat. we got hundreds of comments a day, videos and photos. people saying they were showing it to their classrooms, families saying they woke up every morning to breakfast with our snapchats. really the feedback was such a positive energy source for us as we climbed. charlie: what's next? >> that is the big question. summer. i need to recover some. food, sun, time at home with friends and loved ones. but we're talking about heading back to the himalayas this autumn for another climb. charlie: september, october, november? september? will it be different? not in terms of whether you make but in terms of --

[laughter] charlie: but in terms of how you approach it or train or do anything? do you train always the same way and the surprise element is what the weather is going to be like and will you meet an avalanche? >> hopefully we do not meet another avalanche. but i think this fall we might try to do it a little bit differently in terms of how fast we do it. that would change our training. charlie: faster or slower? >> faster. charlie: as i leave you, we did a morning program together. cbs this morning. and you guys, because of everest hair. >> we got haircuts today. charlie: you brought me a little something. we leave you from "cbs this morning." this morning. thank you, guys. thank you for joining us. see you next time. >> this is hair by everest wigs. i think you are going to look great. there you go. you definitely, there you go.

you look like adrian. ♪

carol: welcome to "bloomberg businessweek." i'm carol massar. david: and i am david gura. we are inside the magazine's headquarters in new york. carol: the real-life consequences of takata's recall. david: canada's fire from hell. all of that up ahead on "bloomberg businessweek." ♪ david: here is ellen, our editor-in-chief at "bloomberg businessweek." let's start with the opening remarks section. a lot of people who do not like donald trump have analogized him to fascists of old.