i am john john: heilemann. mark: i am mark halperin. >> you are out of order. >> you are out of order. >> you are out of order. >> this whole trial is out of order. you are out of order. mark: all rise. the show is in session. we are hearing objections from all corners.

is hearing objections, mostly negative, to udge in hision to a j case with trump university. we have breaking news here. a red-hotreport on conference call the donald trump held with his surrogates. words about the media strategy. joining us to talk about the conference call is our college, jennifer. this was a call that trump was on. tellis the nature of the call and the things said. >> it was an emergency call to talk to his surrogates, the people who speak for him, to instruct them on what he thinks

they should be saying. according to the people who said this, there was no backing away from this or apologizing. counterpunching and figuring out how to attack. it was trump saying, let's go hard at this. we have a strong case and we can use the situation to take this to the next level and this could even help him. weree people on the call what kind of people? brown,level, like scott the former senator from assachusetts, jan brewer, former apprentice contestant, his pastor, various people. the: it is unusual for candidate to be briefing

surrogates on the message. leave that aside for a minute. tell us some of the specific things that he said to instruct them to fight back. brewer interrupted and said that the campaign said that there was a memo that instructed not to talk about trump university. trump fought back and said, who sent the memo? he says, i will throw that in the wastebasket. he was telling the surrogates, we will overcome and i have always won and will continue to. that is the way it is going to be. you guys are the reason i am having these calls and you sometimes get information that is not smart. you sometimes get stupid information from people who are not smart. he promises to have more of these calls with his surrogates.

he was irritated with the reporters. says that the people who are asking the questions are the racists and that he would go at them. he is tripling down and saying to really go hard on this. last to be clear, the point you raise, donald trump is saying that we should not avoid talking about this and that we should amp up the rhetoric and move.ujitsu theants to claim that people who are criticizing him are racists. correct? >> correct. he says he has a hostile judge and he questioned the credibility of the judge. a surrogates says that he should go after the lawyers and brought up examples. there were talking points about going harder after people.

you mentioned quotes that i want to amplify. stupid memo"s and "people who are not so smart." he is attacking his own staff. >> he says that he needs a surrogates out there and to disregard the memo said yesterday. he was talking about his own aides, who instructed these surrogates that they are not allowed to talk about trump university. he is attacking his own staff for being stupid and there are questions about if this campaign is geared up to be a general- election campaign. where are they, with professionalizing the operation?

with where are they professionalizing the operation? >> they are trying to get everyone on message and instruct people on what he wants said. he does not really have a rapid response team or people going him.nd defending he is, essentially, a one-man rapid response team. he was on this phone call and instructing surrogates, saying he wants to do that again in the future. his quote was that, i do not have a voice without you. he says he needs them out there. onk: to clarify, our sources this story, how do they characterize the tone? >> it was a little chaotic. it was a conference call.

mr. trump was irritated to hear about the memo. from their description, it sounded a little chaotic and he was a little your tainted. he was trying to act as the moderator and try to get everyone going on the same page. it seems like it was interesting. there are additional quotes that i would love for you to read. discussions a lot of about the judge and he said, "he is not a good judge." he accused the judge of making errors,making bad talked about a website dedicated to defending trump university. surrogates tohis fight back against the interviewers and to ask media interviewers if they have read the 19,000 pages of positive

feedback. said, grilled the reporters and, if they have not read the comments, ask them why. he talked a little bit about going after hillary clinton as the next thing they need to do. they need to step it up and attack on the clinton foundation. great story.: john and i will talk more about this call and the right and left wing denunciations of donald trump over the comments made about the judge, after this word from our sponsors. ♪

commentsald trump's have been besieged for his race-baiting comments on a judge. after comments from mitch mcconnell and bob corker, trump saw a fresh wave of criticism from his side of the aisle today. rubio, susanmarco ayotte, and kelly

spoke out against him. here is what newt gingrich had to say about trump on fox news. is one ofich: this the worst mistake she has made. it is not excusable. i think that he has to move to a new level. this longer is the primary and he is no longer an interesting contender. he is a potential leader of the united states and he has to move his game up to the level of a potential leader. john: trump reacted and showed no signs of backing down. donald trump: i was surprised by newt gingrich and i thought it was inappropriate. >> does any of this get through and make you reform your tactics? someone came out and said you made a huge mistake. donald trump: i'm trying to

figure out why i am being treated unfairly by a judge. i want to figure out why i am being treated unfairly. john: we have asked members of congress who have endorsed trump to come on the show. they either did not respond or said they were not available. donald trump, his comments on this, his defense of this, his conference call, how much damage is it doing? mark: a ton. from leadership, conservatives on the fence about him, his remarks have been attacked by everyone. they do not like the politics and do not like what he said. you have editorial boards writing stories and wanting to know where local officials stand. isnewt gingrich said, this the worst thing he has done, and,ically, substantively,

based off of what was said on fox, it does not seem like he bell.ry to unring the in thee lit a fire house, stoked the fire, poured gasoline all over himself, and is now inside the house and trying to get more ghastly to make the fire bigger. in nashville,ent tennessee with a bunch of lawyers. they were all horrified, our traged by the display. just the attack of the independent judiciary, if you are losing party leadership, people who reluctantly came to

endorse you and are forced to criticize you with strong terms and the people like that, all mortified, you cannot overstate how big of a mistake this is and he is just making this worse. he says that he intends to keep doing it. johnmark: the democrats were tag advantage of this. the reality of what was said was outrageous for sensibilities. out for aame temporary ban on muslim immigration, there was support. a reason the republican party is outraged is because this is about business and protecting a private lawsuit. he is using the platform of being the party nominee to try to win a legal case that has nothing to do with the country. only personal business and

reputation. john: all of the work that was done from time he became the nominee to try to unify the party, surprisingly, so much of the resistance had superficially fade away. all of the work seems to have been undone by this and it exposed the extent to which people were superficially for him. they are looking at the guy and saying, "does this guy want to be president?" this is the commentary you are starting to see. "does he want to be president?" "does he get nominated in cleveland?" these are all overstated. but, it is bad. mark: there are people who are

orseng, maybe we can unend him. anid french will not launch independent bid. gary johnson is someone conservatives can vote for. continue.proach will affront to what people think of as the independent judiciary and it is a big problem. the tone on the conference call and the attitude on the conference call is not one of a guy who looks to solve problems with finesse, apology, or explanation. people, like paul ryan, say that they will criticize him. the hope was that, he would become the nominee and moved to the center. this is one of the worst and see has said. john: this last part bears

repeating. all of them had hoped that donald trump would rough off -- sand off the rough edges. they are getting rougher. someone, by their ancestry, is incapable of doing their job, it is a fundamental affront to american values. that thed trump to say people who point that out are the racists -- added religion, with john dickerson. i guarantee you this is doing damage to the relationship with the upper-level of the republican party that he will not recover from. john: hopefully not. the nation, donald

trump was presented with statements made five years ago about libya. trump frequently claims now that he has always been against the intervention. here is what has been said. trump: libya, i never discussed that. thousands.killing i supported libya? we should go in and stop this guy, very easy and quick. john dickerson: you were for intervention. donald trump: i was for something. ifwould have been better off the politicians had taken a day off, instead of going to war. and knock this guy out, surgically and effectively. john dickerson: you were for

intervention. donald trump: i said, "surgical." i was in favor of libya. we would be better off if qaddafi was in charge right now. this wass was -- mark: reported back in february and nobody asked him about it, until now. this is currently getting stuff.dowed by the judge this gurney level has gone up in a way that most politicians, even if they think they have had a lot of scrutiny, it goes up. people have looked back on the nomination fight and concluded

that they did not quite exactly get it right. they have to get better at holding people to account on things said in the past. playing video for donald trump, i think we will see this a lot. people fromll see the bush, rubio, ted cruz campaigns say, "why didn't the press do a better job?" not of this is that it did have the research operations, consistency, and discipline to go after trump on these things. you will see more stuff about hillary clinton and trump. as is always the case, it is how you handle it, much more than the underlying videotape and

inconsistencies. the way he handles this is to deny the truth. john: that is a big problem. coming up, bernie sanders' post- california calculations. we will try to read his not-totally-poker face.

>> tomorrow night, the media will the clare clinton the presumptive nominee. what bernie sanders does after is up to him. today, there were calls for bernie sanders to drop out of the race. >> sanders says that he wants to do everything possible to make sure that donald trump does not become president and that will entail supporting the nominee.

we need to unify as early as we can. this will be clear when clinton is the nominee. televisionwas live and it is possible that he did not mean to go that far. obama made endorsed hillary clinton this week. where do you think bernie sanders is at? will he get out or fight on? john: people underestimate the possibility that bernie sanders will, within a few days of california and the other states, drop out. people forget what it was like when hillary clinton and those around her said, "we will fight on to denver." she came here in new york and terry mcauliffe said that she would be the next president of the united states. ,he went to washington, d.c.

gave a speech, went to the campaign headquarters, and dropped out. the psychology is unpredictable. when you look at it in the light of day, things can be different. mark: the guy has earned the right to do what he wants. let's see what he does, instead of forcing him out. a lot of colleagues on the trail have been trying to do that for days. there are issues that he cares about. my hunch is that he will go with the middle ground, stop attacking her, go to the convention, and see what happens. the number one book on amazon right now is a book on the clintons. i think bernie sanders, the whereauthority, the polls he does better against trump, he wants to see what happens. john: i do not think bernie

sanders will spend 1.5 months beat her up. he he may just go back to burlington tomorrow night with his family and say, "you know what? i lost." mark: i wanted to see if there was a "unity" in a battleground state. john: we will talk about lessons learned in the media landscape, when we come back. ♪

bona fideady for two

media aides. rebranded theday donald trump campaign as, "trump ."oduction, inc he floods the zone and he talks and talks. it has worked for him. it seems like this evidence could be against the thesis. switch around and said, here comes the general election and will it continue? john: you think it is going to change? is this an example of a different environment making it possible to continue with this strategy? trumpianhe new content out, i don't think he wanted that.

a supporter in the clinton campaign told me, "can he be president and not just a compelling personality?" i do not know if it will work. will this hurt hillary clinton? quality may matter more now. rarelyarely -- mark: have i seen someone come out of a losing campaign and put this in effect so quick. you learned a huge lesson from the truck campaign. you cannot be out of the discussion. doesn't quality matter? is things that the media and the general public are interested in. >> we are starting a new firm on the way thathat

people receive information now is different. this presidential campaign was different because of how people receive information. they deliver information differently and we need to deliver more information that is high-quality, otherwise people will not click. trump produce a ton of content during the campaign. we measured this on a daily there was not a single day in the campaign where donald field.was not lapping the yiel mark: by a factor of what? what the rest of the field had combined. after a major news event, he was the only one that anyone was hearing from.

on average, he was getting twice as much as attention as the rest of the field. john: i want to stay with this. we were talking about trump getting different coverage than what he got during the nomination fight. on that libya issue, for example. do you think that the media has failed in how they covered trump in the nomination contest? >> well, yeah. obviously. in theiled to vet him same way they vetted my boss, for example. on howas a big story marco spent personal money. defense, no one took him seriously and none of us took him seriously.

we treated him as a businessman-celebrity. competitors,a, voters, they are looking at him as a potential president and it is a different environment for him, reflected in the coverage and how he is being treated in the last 1-2 weeks. do you see a difference in how he is covered and what do you think explains the change? ofwe have had tough coverage him over the last few days and i think that it is general election time and there are lessons learned. collectively, the news media and my colleagues think that we should have treated him the same way we treated marco rubio. on the republican side, people have complained that hillary had benefit and she has had her fair share of tougher stories and there were times when we were treating donald trump like a celebrity candidate. things have been tough. betweenlooks like a war

donald trump and the press. willnot know how reporters handle this, being drawn into the fight. trump'sat is donald view of the thesis? is,is view is that the case as long as they are talking about donald trump, he is winning. he says, he will take all the good criticism and he does not want any bad. he does not want any controversial stores. i do not know that he will share his most innermost thoughts. good to is all well and want to dominate the media the way donald trump does. but, if you are not that interesting, can consultants get the coverage?

a it more based on trump as "one-man band?" >> he is unique. if you want to get your message out, you need to provide a lot of content. what people are talking about today is not what they will talk about, 48 hours from now. if you have a problem, let the iginton campaign had with the rp, you have to aggressively tackle the problem. just hope it will go away. you think about what donald trump said about the judge? >> there is no place for it. every republican should condemn it. mark: should marco rubio withdraw his endorsement? >> i no longer advise marco rubio. i know he gave an interview and

was critical. i hope donald trump repudiates the statements. it is that for his candidacy and the country for a major nominee to say things like that. john: all right. alex and jim, thank you for joining us. both of you are great. next, we will remember ali. you can watch us and listen to us. we will be right back. ♪

mark: there are legends and

those like ali. he died on friday night at the age of 74. here to talk about us is a guy who is pretty great, himself. writer. esteemed thank you for joining us. start with the store that you started your peace with. .ou looked -- your piece with you look back at the day you were there with the beatles and ali. >> i wish i had appreciated it more. i remembered having to interview this fighter and i got this assignment to cover the first liston-clay fight. the real reporter did not think

it was worth his time clay would get. -- worth his time. clay would get knocked out in the first round. liston was unbeatable. went from the arena to the hospital, wasting no time following him in intensive care. where he was gym working out and he had not arrived yet. right near me or these four guys . we were all pushed into a dressing room to wait. what had happened was that they were on their first american visits and they had gone for a photo op.

a look at them and said, i am not posing with those sissies. into a lim uffed o. they wereast time stuffed. he was the most beautiful creature. he said, "come on, beatles." the beatles stood in a row and he tapped the first one and they went down like dominoes. they formed a pyramid to hit him. at the end, he said, "who were those sissies?"

john: this is a political show and ali was a political figure. am joined the nation of isl and refuse to join the armed forces. how much of a political earthquake did these cause? >> they were in or mostly enormously-- were important. 22-year-oldnsecure the nationnt to of islam for a father figure. one ofy, he is caught in the most turbulent late charge times in my life. -- turbulent times in my life.

back on the main religion of america and has cast off his slave name. we didroots came out, not know what that meant. suddenly, he was representing millions of people and he is a polarizing figure. i do not think he entirely new what he was talking about. john: it seems to me that it was a hugely important moment for politics and sports. you had athletes wanting to take important stance on social issues. >> very few even came close. jim brown, the football player. kareem. were partial-protest to ali losing his title.

billie jean king. none to the extent that he did. he became a political symbol. there was an innocence and blank slate about him. it was easy for everyone to put a magnet on ali. i do not think he fully understood what he was talking about, until he had to stop boxing, go to college campuses, nd-take with give-as students. here is a good example. the senate hearings on the ylor calls a senator a

traitor. finds outme day, ali he has been reclassified as 1a. he hears this and he said, "why me?" "i pay all these taxes and buy all these bombs, helmets!" don't they draft the poor boys?" day, he says,that i have nothing against the viet kong. of that day, he put out a white paper?

i don't think so. mark: coming up, we will talk about donald trump and whether the size of his campaign matters. ♪

by one ofre joined our favorite people in the entire universe. we are talking about how trump's bare-bones staff could hurt him. we gather that you have had push ld on thattrumpwor story today. ack from corey. b

he says that the judge refuses and he is the case pushing back on the accuracy on the reports of the private phone call that took place. that the case should have been dismissed on summary judgment. they were pushing back on it and they were not saying what was not accurate about bloomberg's sizable report. pushing back, it does not seem like any particular thing. it seems more generic. >> that was what i got with my story today. whats, "you do not know yo because you do not have access and we do

not like you, so we do not give you access." sceneses on behind the was beneficial for them. they do not have a robust medications staff. they have two people. one answers e-mails and corey response to the reporters he chooses to respond to. it is problematic, you guys, as we have been talking about, because donald trump does not have the ability to spin things to their advantage. hillary clinton does. hillary clinton's team comes in and says, "look at what donald trump says and this is why it is outrageous." what hillary clinton has a

foreign-policy speech, donald trump does not counter that with the same full-court press. they do not have that team. the rnc is working with the campaign and they are pushing out rapid response talking points. rncreality is that the priorities and the trunk campaign priorities are different. trump campaign priorities are different. they responded to the foreign-policy speech, but not the trump university speech. donald trump continues to call out the judge. he refuses to acknowledge that that is racist, even after being accused of that by many.

over the weekend and through the weekend, almost nobody has come to his defense. trump, on this call reported today, sounded like the , saying, "where are my people and who is defending me?" i have never known donald trump to need surrogates. this seems like a new phenomenon. say have never heard him this and it will be interesting to see if the surrogates come out and say, "donald trump is right to call out this judge for his mexican heritage." if they take it a step further and call the reporters, "racist," donald trump has a

surrogate message. the news has been trying to get anybody to come on the record to defend the message. nogk: i will buy you an egg for everyone who comes out. john: mark is hallucinating. you are awesome. mark is hallucinating. egg nog. all right. republicans have a proposal to overturn dodd-frank and we will tell you about that after this. ♪

>> kevin has an exclusive interview with the chairman of the house financial services committee, who unveiled a new

proposal to overturn dodd-frank. here is some of what was said when he was asked if he had talked to donald trump about the overhaul. >> there are a lot of things i do not agree with all stop a thing i agree with is that dodd-frank has failed miserably and it needs to be replaced. i know that he is interested in doing that. i do not know who our next president will be. if it is donald trump, i hope to work with him and replace dodd-frank with the "financial choice act." >> see you tomorrow.

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>> i am mark crumpton. you are watching bloomberg west. president obama plans to formally endorse hillary clinton as early as this week. that is according to a person familiar with the president's

plans. the timing of the endorsement has not been set, but the president is speaking at a democratic fundraiser wednesday in new york city. a democratic congressman has written an open letter to donald trump, calling him a racist. telling him where to place his proposed border wall. trump's attacks on the mexican-american federal judge in the trump diversity lawsuit despicable. premier metvice with the u.s. trade representative today. is the round of the u.s. and china's strategic dialogue. annual day one of the two-day summit in beijing. spain's olympic committee says 2000 bottles of insect repellent will be available to the athletes