john: i'm john heilemann. mark: i'm mark halperin and with all due respect to donald trump, cleveland's already got a king. ♪ mark: as a great man once said, the struggle continues for the cleveland cavaliers. we are here at the rock 'n roll hall of fame. the two teams will face off a short distance from here at the quicken loans arena, the same

stadium that will host donald j trump and the republican national convention in just 40 days. on tonight's show, we are going to learn about how the planning for the gathering is going, but first the entire political world is analyzing the three speeches delivered last night by the three remaining candidates. for hillary clinton, it was an emotional and momentous celebration in brooklyn. she won four of the six states yesterday, including new jersey and california, where surprisingly she beat bernie sanders by double digits. those victory solidified her new decision as the first woman to become the presumptive nominee of a pickle party in the usa. party in theical usa. the emphatic wins and her well-crafted victory speech has given her strong finishes at the ballot box and the speech she gave last night, how strong is her position? john: let's pause to reflect for

one moment that there was a lot of discussion about the ap call on monday, maybe taking away some of the grandeur of last night, turned out to not be true. give hillary clinton her do. she won big last night. we can talk more about california. bernie sanders was camped out for two weeks and she still one that in a big way. well-crafted speech -- not just well-crafted but well delivered. called, confident, emphatic. i think she leaves this race with a bigger head of steam than a lot of people expected she would, partly because of the way the race has gone of late but particularly last night which was as good a night as she has had in the entire campaign for -- campaign. mark: last night was a sort of metaphor for the sweet spot that she finds herself in. things could change. you look at last thursday's speech and what has been

happening with donald trump and last night's strong performance by hillary clinton. there are two things going on that are huge deal for her. because of the thursday speech and last night, democrats have worked confidence in her abilities than they have had in months, that she can go out and when these things and take it to donald trump. second, trump is weakened because he's going through a bad run. but he's still strong enough. the democrats recognize this is a fight. they are not taking anything for granted but they like the horse they get to ride. john: i totally agree with that. she has always been good at giving set speeches, but last night, i thought the mixture of act knowledge and the historic nature of the moment, criticizing trump -- we will talk more about the speeches they gave later in the show, but she criticized him and did a good job laying out the

themantics of what her general election campaign would look like. you looked at that and said it's going to be a strong candidate. that was a very good performance. mark: anyone who knows her, that thursday speech, you are seeing her true performance nature. you are seeing a side of her that is tough, funny, knowing and really wants to be president in a way her supporters can get inspireedporters are by. john: that victory in california does take some of the -- away. his argument for fighting, having lost that race really does matter. we said it mattered before and her victory is so much bigger than anyone expected. mark: speaking of bernie sanders. john: at almost 2 a.m., he took the stage in santa monica, california, he delivered his own speech and today, he spent the morning and afternoon traveling home to his residence in

burlington, vermont to contemplate his political future. tomorrow, he will travel to washington and meet with president obama and senate minority leader harry reid before holding a rally that evening. there has been a lot of talk about democratic disunity and concerns it might damage clinton in the general election. after losing and frantically to emphaticallyng so clinton in california and elsewhere and now facing a lot of endorsements and other pressure, what you think his options are? mark: he's got much less of an ability to go forward and i thought he would. not just because he lost think california but his only supporter in oregon said the race is over. a lot of people are now criticizing him saying that we have to unite the party. lots of pressure is going to come from president obama and even joe biden who is suggesting bernie sanders needs room,

whatever he decides to do, he's not going to be a threat. that doesn't mean his supporters are going to be on board with her right away, but the press focus on can hillary win him over and all of these questions temps down a lot. john: senator merkley saying the race is over is not just important because he's saying it because of who he is, but his argument is impeccable. he basically says the person who has the majority of pledged delegates is our party's nominee. hillary clinton now has the majority of pledged delegates and has a huge popular vote margin. there is no intellectually justifiable reason for sanders to claim he should go on and try to flip superdelegates. i also think the pressure not just from the ambient pressure, but president obama, i understand, is really starting to lean in on bernie sanders. i think he's going to do it a lot tomorrow at the white house and say your leverage is not increasing.

it is diminishing every day you continue to hold out. mark: i think the big question is the role she gets sanders at the convention and the role her supporters play are big questions. not only in terms of ringing his supporters on board but to define what kind of presidency and candidacy she wants to have. those remain to be worked out. but this is a much stronger hand than she had 24 hours ago. john: and sanders has got to decide what does he want now question mark you can still get some stuff but i suggested yesterday on the show i don't think he cares much about the platform. i think he can get some nomination process changes because hillary clinton, if she wins, she's not going to matter and she will probably be willing to let him have some of those changes. mark: on the program last night, we talked about donald j trump billionaire and the defensive statements he released about the trump university civil case and the judge overseeing it.

last night, the pressure is still strong on trump despite republican leaders asking him to stay on message, using teleprompters that he made fun of. he spoke in a new york suburb and today, he sat down with our colleagues for an interview at trump tower and they asked the presumptive gop nominee about how much pressure he is under to tone down his act. mr. trump: what i would say is i'm not being treated fairly. i don't care where someone comes from. but i'm not being treated fairly. >> nobody was saying this is trouble? mr. trump: i have had very few of those calls. very few of those calls.

mcconnell would like to see me be more scripted. he actually said that, but with respect, -- i said when i'm in front of 25,000 people, if i'm going to give a scripted speech, it would be so boring and he said i like boring. mark: they will join us in a moment to talk about their donald trump interview, but for now, after the statement trump yesterday, the nature and substance of his speech last night, another attempt to limit the damage of what has happened to him, where does he stand currently with the elites in the republican party who are still upset despite his attempts to soften things? john: i think yesterday, the defensive statement, we said on the show i think correctly moved the needle little bit and i think his performance last night moves the needle a little further.

we have to hold trump accountable here in this interview -- he says i don't care where anybody comes from. that's not what he was saying last week. he's not -- yesterday he said people misconstrued what he said and now he said it never mattered. it never mattered, he should not have brought up the mexican heritage and in some cases called the judge a mexican and said his heritage somehow precluded him from being able to be fair in the case. the reason i mention this is not just to hold him accountable but to illustrate the things he said are damaging enough that he could make progress because every story has a certain half-life. you won't be able to erase them ever. mark: you cannot unring the bell. there are a lot of republicans who look at this as a window into his character and what is really troublesome. a lot of people mocked him for

for notch last night being as freewheeling as he usually is but whoever worked on this speech, they hit every possible no people in the party wanted him to hit on politics, on policy, on tone and attitude toward the voters. speech. well-written if he gives that speech with discipline, he will repair a lot of damage for a lot of people. not with everyone. john: today, donald j trump, billionaire, told bloomberg politics that he has five or seven people on his running mate shortlists. we will tell you what he said about that after these words from our sponsors. ♪

john: earlier today, two of our top reporters interviewed donald j trump, billionaire, for an interview about his transition to the general election. joining us now are those very same reporters. jennifer jacobs and michael bender. their story is up on bloomberg politics.com. we teased a few seconds ago the fact that you guys discussed donald trump thinking about his running mate. give us a sense about what trump had to say. jennifer: he says he is narrowed down his short list to about seven. he said the people fall into three categories and he told us

that there are two generals on his short list, but he says he's less likely to pick one of those two. he completely ruled out picking a business leader. i asked if he would consider someone who has worked on wall street and he said no. he says he has those business abilities and doesn't need someone like that in a running mate. the people he is really looking at seriously are for five five people, all politicians with experience in washington, d.c. john: it seemed like he referred to the fact he was considering some people who shared the debate stage with him in the republican nomination fight. did he go any further and suggest to that might be? michael: he said he had five

professional politicians and some of them are former rivals, including one who has not endorsed him yet. by process of elimination, it has to be somewhere around ted cruz, john kasich, and chris christie has been a supporter of his for a while and overall guys who shared the stage. mark: let's talk about the issue of trump's criticism of the judge. elites believe this has hurt him or will hurt him. we have not seen enough polling to see whether it will hurt him. what is trump's view of whether that has hurt him with donors or people in the republican party? michael: he says he's heard from very few people about this. our reporting is different on that. donors are nervous about this and were put off by these comments, that trump does not see the need to raise hillary clinton-type of money, the type of money obama and romney raised in 2012. it is unclear how much of an

issue he thinks this is. as he turns out, he can get hundreds of reporters to his rallies or press conferences anytime he wants. mark: let me stay with the issue of fundraising. we had fred malek the finance chair of the rga who said he was troubled by trump plus inability to tear up a hard dollar operation for the campaign. trump thinks he needs to raise less. do you think that is just arguing something that he has two or he doesn't need to raise a lot of money. jennifer: he was serious when he said my fame as a reality tv star will get me what i need. i can proceed and run for president with less money. he didn't let on but it seems like he is worried about not being able to raise a billion dollars. in may, he said that figure

would be a billion and now he is reducing it and he wouldn't even commit to raising $500,000. our interview happened right after he met with lew eisenberg, who is in charge of this fundraising campaign. he said i've heard nothing about concerns from donors. everything is going fine. going great.s but it does raise some questions about whether he's backing off of that lien dollars because he doesn't think he can raise that much. mark: i know you meant $500 million rather than 500 house in $500,000. john: stepping away from specifics for a second, trump has been through a really tough week. what was the atmosphere when you

sat down with him. what was his disposition? michael: he was recent do. it was early in the morning around trump organization and he was on his first diet coke of the day. he gave an attempt at trying to be humble. i threw a line out suggesting he had out negotiated paul ryan for his negotiation and he cut me off and said he did not negotiate and ryan is a good guy and they would do some dealmaking in the future. it was a pretty high compliment from donald trump but he also showed some of his ego as well. referring to a story about a private call he held and he made sure to tell us he always knows reporters are on those calls, always assumes reporters are on those calls and we did not pull anything over on him. john: let me come back to the fundraising question again. he says i don't need much money to run for president. he says i have massive rallies

and i'm more interested in raising money for other people. it strikes me that it's a strange conception of what money gets spent on in a presidential campaign. it goes back to the larger idea what you need to do to win a presidential election. what do you think it reflects that a substitute for money is rallies? jennifer: he's not raising money just for himself, he supposed to be helping down ballot candidates across the country. unless he's going to start mentioning those candidates at his rally, i'm not sure how much it helps him. helps them.t the larger purpose is he supposed to be helping the gop. for him to say i can carry myself and i'm fine just holding rallies ignores the fact that there are other republicans he is supposed to be helping.

john: i know he has made comments about this in the past, but it seems to suggest he doesn't think there's a big role for a ground game. he obviously doesn't think -- i know he has said this before but there's a ton of stuff to spend money on that he doesn't seem to be interested in or think it is a part of what he's got to do. jennifer: he has said advertising is something that makes the operatives rich. he has pretty much looked down his nose at various traditional campaign strategies saying that he just doesn't need it. he can win based on the power of his fame. john: congratulations on your interview and your peace. you can read more about that interview at bloomberg politics.com. when we come back, a preview of the republican national convention here in cleveland. we will check in on how the republican party is preparing after this quick break.

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mark: joining us now back at the rock 'n roll hall of fame in cleveland -- a lot of planning still left to do. what will this convention do that will look like that is different from what others do? guest: a lot is different. it's going to look a lot different than 2012. i know a lot of this specific sure going to be asking about, we don't know about. 2016 is different in 2012. mark: can you give us one difference? guest: social, digital, speakers when they are done speaking will be having first looks on social and digital channels.

more people will be able to cover from this convention than ever before. people want a different look this time around. john: ever since donald trump got the nomination, people have predicted there might be some unrest and people trying to disrupt the convention. what are you doing to take precautions against that? guest: i don't think this convention is going to be any different from what we have seen before. we are going to be prepared. secret service and the city of cleveland are working in tandem with our security folks. we will have security at hotels, within the perimeter and within the city. people will be surprised pleasantly that things are going to go smoothly. mark: what are some of the big decisions that have not been made? guest: the program. mark: except for donald trump, you could not name a single

person? guest: we cannot give away all of our secrets 40 days out. they were out here yesterday meeting with our programming folks, so we will have more in the next 40 days. mark: donald trump has said because of his career in television that this will be a more entertaining convention. is that happening? guest: very likely. i think that's what the electorate wanton with the american people want. we are working toward that in the next 40 days. mark: let me ask about the city -- this is a democratic city in a state that is mixed republican and democrat. how has it in dealing with a democratic city and union city? guest: it has been great. our ceo and the mayor staff get together regularly. so it has in very good. we came in with the right mindset and we have been trying

to build relationships while we are in the city that i think are going to be held as we move toward the general election. john: 40 days is 20 of time. mark: we are going to talk about the shifting dynamics in the fight between hillary clinton and bernie sanders when we come back. ♪

john: welcome back. we are here at the rock 'n roll

hall of fame in cleveland. we have two more guests on the show. gentlemen, thanks for being with us. hillary clinton had a big night last night. give me your sense of how you feel like she did and what it says about her capacity to be a strong general election candidate. >> a couple of things. obviously, history was made last night. i enjoyed not only secretary clinton's speech but senator sanders's speech, and i sense from secretary clinton there is a big understanding of what she had to go through and what members of our party are interested in seeing in the next president. and what they want to see in her as a general election

candidate. in addition, i'm beginning to hear her sharpen her message and sharpen the differences between her and donald trump. trump will be a formidable foe between now and november, and it will take a concerted effort from democrats across the board and independents alike. i heard from senator sanders not a concession but an understanding that for democrats to win in the wall, we have to come together. john: senator merkley today basically said the race is now over. he is a sanders supporter. he says hillary clinton had the majority of pledged delegates. do you agree with that assessment? >> the important thing here is that history, on the one hand, that was made last night in terms of hillary clinton and a woman as the nominee for president, how historic that is, and on the other hand, the historic grassroots campaign with more than 10 million fundraisers.

$10 million. bernie sanders will take his time figuring out how we can make the democratic party more a grassroots party, less gripped by the unnatural elite, but at the end of the day, we will have a unified party not only to defeat donald trump, but hopefully to elect a congress that will inact some of these things these candidates has been talking about -- a congress that will enact some of these things these candidates have been talking about. mark: if bernie sanders got out of the race tomorrow and endorsed hillary clinton, what with the downside be?

>> if he got out of the race tomorrow before he spoke to leadership and before he spoke with hillary clinton tomorrow before he speaks to secretary clinton and the two campaigns figure out a different message somewhere between the two, i would say, you will see donald trump do much better in the election. he will pound away on trade and pound away against the financial elite that he is, of course, part of, and we will not have a party of folks who believe they can get involved in this democracy and make a difference. mark: you are a pretty good student of body language. do you think senator sanders could be leaning more toward getting out than you thought? >> i don't know. i remain a fan of arithmetic and i listened to senator sanders last night talk about his devotion to math as well, and it gives me a growing appreciation for -- i do not know the campaign or people within the campaign, but i think he wants to do things to lay this out on

the line and should. i think the message we need to have going forward is one that appeals to as many democrats, as many independents, and as many republicans who believe income inequality needs to be addressed -- education inequality needs to be addressed. fulfilling a lot of the democratic agenda -- those things need to be discussed. i'm encouraged by what i heard from senator sanders last night that democrats -- a lot of what we have worked for for the last 25 years is at stake. reversedermined and if donald trump wins. donald trump will be a nasty,

divisive, polarizing figure -- he has been and it looks like he will continue to be, but he has not been punished yet. i think it is crucial that we as a party get together and do it as quickly as possible. i hope it happens quickly. i understand these meetings have been scheduled. hopefully, it means that we are getting closer to the point where we are united. john: i want you to pretend like you have taken a massive pay cut and you have become barack obama's chief adviser. what would you advise him to do? >> far be it for me to try to give the president advice on these things, but i would echo a lot of the things senator sanders raised and drop -- draw parallels between his campaign in 2008. senator sanders got in this race and was really discounted early on. i would say let's see how we can ensure the things you care most deeply about our included -- are

included not only in the platform but in the remaining several months of the presidency here. john: is there any doubt in your mind that this race is over? >> as bernie would say, it is very, very uphill. that is how he would put it. that matters more than what i would say. he has a rally tomorrow night in d.c., and we believe deeply in every vote and every delegate that these delegates state-by-state will help form the basis of a new democratic party and a new democracy in this country, and we continue to help elect other candidates. bernie has raised more than $2 million now for other candidates. there's campaigns like stopping the transpacific partnership that we will continue. i have been involved for the entire year, and at a certain point, we began to see that we could actually win the nomination, but at the

beginning, it was about building a movement for democracy in this country. campaigno we use the to do it. some frustration we all feel that we got close and could not do better, for example, in california last night, but also jubilation about what we built. john: thank you both for being on the show. coming up, a he said/she said comparison of those donald trump/hillary clinton speeches last night. we will be right back. ♪

mark: donald trump and hillary clinton both gave big victory speeches last night. both in the state of new york. and both had remarks containing similar themes, messages, and goals, so we decided to do a side-by-side comparison. trump and clinton also both used their speeches last night to attack each other. take a look. trump: secretary clinton even did all of the work on a totally illegal private server designed to keep her corrupt dealings out of the public record. hillary clinton turned state department into her private hedge fund. clinton: donald trump is temperamentally unfit to be president. when he says "let's make america great again," that is code for

"let's take america backward." mark: to speak in the vernacular of this election, it's crooked hillary versus unfit donald. i wonder if either of them over time will not wear well. john: right now, there is a presumption among democrats that trump will continue to feed this narrative. if he doesn't, that line of attack might at least be reduced. the e-mail thing is the same. nothing happens if there is no indictment. i think that is going to run its course. i do not think the argument trump is making has legs unless the justice department gives it legs, fuels, whenever. mark: there's a new secret service book that is certainly

going to get attention and feed into that. i think the thing about hillary clinton right now and donald trump -- they both feel it. these are not synthetic or manufactured. think about george bush and john kerry and his attacks on john kerry is being a guy who was in constant. bush believed that. it is a big advantage when your candidate believes the line of attack, and both do. john: these are the kind of attacks you normally do not see until october, so it is hard for me to imagine. not hard to imagine this level of vitriol continuing, but hard to imagine that these attacks will be the same attacks that we will still be discussing come october. let's look at clip two right now and our comparison. runnings, when you're

for president, you just have to let people know that you feel their pain and trump and clinton did. trump: i have traveled to many of our states and seen the suffering in people's eyes. i have visited communities of new york, new jersey, pennsylvania, connecticut, ohio, whose manufacturing jobs -- they literally -- these jobs have virtually disappeared. an embarrassment to our country, and it is horrible. clinton: i have learned a lot about you and about those persistent problems and the unfinished promise of america that you are living with. so many of you feel like you are out there on your own, that no one has your back. well, i do. john: they are both basically making the pitch here for what has sometimes been thought of as the forgotten middle class. who do you think delivers that pitch better and can carry that forward better?

. . mark: look, trump is new to it. trump has spent decades in public life trying to help children and families, and her detractors just do not understand what her orientation is about. hearing that kind of rhetoric from donald trump, that is the kind of rhetoric that republicans want him to use. he has spent far less time talking about the middle class than any nominee in the modern era, but he does understand the country and he is running because he sees these large economic factors. it will be interesting when and if he tries to talk about specific people at the convention or elsewhere. he is able to talk about human beings on a human scale. john: he understands people's frustration in a very deep and visceral way that has served him well through the campaign, and i am fine with politicians giving tele-prompter speeches -- i do not have anything against the teleprompter, but the question is if trump can have that conversation off the teleprompter. never really seen that. mark: one more clip we want to

look at -- trump and clinton boiling down to their key messages. trump: the beauty of america first is that it brings us all together. every american worker of every background is entitled to the same benefits, protections, rights, and benefits. we will make our country strong again. ladies and gentlemen, we will make america great again. clinton: we believe cooperation is better than conflict, unity is better than division, empowerment is better than resentment, and bridges are better than walls. we are stronger when we respect each other, listen to each other, and act with a sense of common purpose. john: a lot of presidential candidates have some speeches. -- have stump speeches.

neither of these candidates have done that. it will be fascinating to see how well these candidates do on their speeches. john: hillary's argument is that trump wants to go backwards, and i do not think trump would even argue with that. there is a nostalgic quality. the thing she is talking about will be entering because just enduring because just from political reasons, she needs the obama coalition, which is all about diversity, and i think this will be a theme you will hear from her throughout. i think you're going to hear it throughout her campaign. mark: trump using the teleprompter, fascinating to see if he keeps that up. when we come back, bruce springsteen's jeans and a whole bunch of guitars. we take a tour of the rock 'n roll hall of fame and a new

exhibit about using and politics. back right after this. ♪

john: welcome back. we are here in cleveland. as we said before, the rock 'n roll hall of fame and i am here with the president and eeo of this amazing library -- president and ceo of this amazing library. this is a great exhibition you have on in collaboration with the republican convention. greg: it's "louder than words," and it tells the story of how rock 'n roll has sometimes reflected what is going on in the culture and sometimes shaped the culture. we cover civil rights, women's

rights, women's rights, the environment -- it is all in rock 'n roll. there is something special about the records and the truth -- there is something about three chords and the truth. john: when i look around here, is not only the history of rock 'n roll, but also incredible artifacts. you have a lot of great stuff. tell me about some of the favorite things you have displayed here, if someone comes here, they will see what? greg: this is not just a generic guitar -- we have the guitar jimi hendrix played at probably the most important rock 'n roll moment of the 20th century, at woodstock. the guitar he played the national anthem on at woodstock is on exhibit here. the very guitar john lennon wrote and recorded "give peace a chance" on is on display downstairs. pieces like that that are the

moment, the instant. john: we had to pick someplace to stand, and a want to talk about where we are. we are right here in the carter administration. you're talking about guitars. i want to talk about one of my favorite bands, the clash. greg: one of my favorite bands as well. joe strummer and the clash spoke the truth. this guitar represents that. this is a band that when they received their first hit, the money they received from the record company a radio promotion was a car, and they gave the car to local labor unions so they could get to their jobs. joe strummer lived it, the band lived it. it is a big part of the story. john: the pretenders, another of my favorite bands. this guitar is representative of what? didn't wanty hine to be a great rock 'n roll singer. she wanted to take gender out of

it. she did it as hard as anyone ever did. she is not being a diva. she is being a leader and really calling out for women's rights. john: this is really a symbol of a rock feminism and how it was on the forefront of women's rights. greg: absolutely. think patti smith, carole king -- they are leading and others are following. john: trace a little bit the way in which rock 'n roll music is rebel music and the boys often -- the voice often of the counterculture. just trace over the time from the beginning of rock 'n roll to now the many concerns politically speaking of rock 'n roll. greg: the 1950's, early 1960's, civil rights. rock 'n roll is pushing the envelope. you have controversy because you have white suburban kids listening to rhythm and blues and african-american music, and it is shaking their world. huge movement. when the march on washington happened and martin luther king made his great "i have a dream" speech, before him on the dais was bob dylan, josh white, and

the great mahalia jackson. that's front and center with it. then you move ahead and talk about ecology or talk about antiwar movement. good lord. it is loaded with rock 'n roll and rock 'n roll was the boys. -- was the voice. musicians and artists are speaking for a lot of of other people, pushing the envelope. think about the bands taking a stance that are laying it down. then you move into the 1970's with women's rights, carol kane -- carol kane and the king andnt -- carol the environment. it just keeps going and going and going all the way up until today. rage against the machine, pussy riot in russia -- it is still going on today. john: here is the charlie daniels band. there's a hat. i am more interested in this pair of jeans. talk about this para genes. greg: this is the pair of jeans he wore on the cover of "born in

the usa" -- initially misunderstood, but really it is bruce drying a lens on things he does not disagree with and doing it in a way that had a big audience. it had big subjects and universal themes that he talked about. john: this song in some ways one of the great anti-vietnam war songs even though the vietnam war was long over. it was understood as a patriotic anthem but really a howl of pain in the after affects of vietnam. greg: he decided not to play in north carolina a few weeks ago -- strong stance, strong statement, using rock 'n roll as a microphone to project what you believe in. and these people are the greatest dreamers, to call for a better world and to take a stand. john: you are great, and we will be right back from the rock 'n roll hall of fame to wrap up this show. everyone should come here, if

you go to the convention or not, come and check out the exhibition. it is the best. ♪

mark: bloombergpolitics.com has analysis right now about the big campaign speeches last night and what comes next in this topsy-turvy race. up next, emily chang speaks with the hewlett-packard ceo next on "bloomberg west." i'm going to go figure out why carly simon isn't in the rock 'n roll hall of fame. sayonara. ♪

♪ rishaad: it is thursday, the ninth of june. this is "trending business". i am rishaad salamat. ♪ we are going to be in beijing, sydney, and singapore. oil advancing, the longest run in six weeks. new wildfires prompting canadian producers to shut down once more. brewers make a dale moving dealr -- make a