>> welcome to the latest edition of with all due respect best of. hillary clinton making history, the first woman to become a .resumptive nominee she closed out the race with on tuesday.s meanwhile on the republican side, donald trump continue to do with the follow from his racist comments regarding a judge. let's begin with the victory

speeches by each side's nominee. trump: secretary clinton did all of the work on a totally illegal private server designed to keep her correct dealings out of the public record. clinton turned the state department into her private hedge fund. mrs. clinton: donald trump is temperamentally unfit. when he says let's make america great again, that is code for let's take america backwards. in the binoculars of this election, crooked hillary versus unfit donald. those will be the negative attacks. i wonder -- the: the new data plan is key issue. there's is a presumption among democrats that trump will continue to feed this narrative. -- if truckes not

is the samee e-mail thing. if nothing happens, there's no indictment, that will run its course. doesn't have legs unless the justice department gives us more fuel. john: there is this new secret service flagging that will certainly get attention. thing about hillary clinton right-hand donald trump, they both feel it. these are not synthetic. you think about george bush and john kerry and his attacks on john kerry has been a flip-flop or. bush believed that. it is such an advantage when your candidate believes the line of attack. mark: these are the kinds of attacks you normally don't see until october.

thathard for me to imagine these attacks will be the same will still bee discussing come october. let's look at click number two. sometimes when you one for president, you have got to let people know you feel their pain. : i have seen the suffering in people's eyes. i visited communities in new york, new jersey, pennsylvania, connecticut, ohio, whose jobs haveing virtually disappeared and an embarrassment to our country and it's horrible. : i have learned about the persistent problems in the unfinished promise of america you are living with. so many of you feel like you are out there on your own, that no

one has your back. i do. they're both making a pitch that we have not heard that much from trump in a long time, both making a pitch for the forgotten middle class. who do think delivers that better and can carry that forward better? new to it. is hillary clinton has spent decades talking about trying to help people. hearing those words from donald trump was striking. that is the kind of rhetoric republicans wanted to use. he has traveled to dr. run the country. around the country. he is running because he sees the large economic factors. it will be interesting if he tries to talk about specific to talk aboute human beings on a human scale. mark: he understands people's

frustrations and their anger in a way that has served him well but i think the question is -- and i'm fine with politicians giving teleprompter speeches. the question is whether trump can have that conversation off the teleprompter, at a town hall meeting setting. john: one more clip. trumping clinton boiling down there he messages in the general election. mr. trump: the beauty of america us alls it brings together. every american worker of every background is entitled to the same benefits, protections, rights, privileges. we will make our country strong again. we will make america great again. clinton: we believe cooperation is better than conflict, unity is better than division, empowerment is better

than resentment, and bridges are better than walls. we are stronger when we respect each other, listen to each other, and act with a sense of common purpose. a lot of candidates have some speeches. seewill be fascinating to given how well both of them did last night on various dimensions which one adopts their speech from last night more frequently as the core of their message. mark: hillary's argument is ismp's make america great trump is going backwards. i don't think he would disagree. there is a estelle jerk quality -- a nostalgic quality. the things she talks about will be enduring because of political reasons, she needs the obama coalition all about diversity.

is a thing you will hear throughout. whether it will work, i don't know. trump using the teleprompter, it's a metaphor for his recovery last night. still ahead, where does the stop trump movement stand and is there a way for the republican party to nominate someone else? that and more when we come back.

mark: donald trump's comments have put him on thin ice with a number of different segment of the republican party. people suggesting maybe delegates at next month national convention should change the rules, stop trump's coronation if he doesn't change his

behavior. how alive are those efforts and how realistic are they? we are joined by two amazing bents, then ginsburg -- ginsberg and tim miller. good to see you. televisionve been on , the maestro you are, a famous electoral the. a guy who knows how to work the system. you have been on television saying this cannot happen, unlikely to happen. explain why you are so pessimistic even as the voices for a dump truck convention get -- trump convention get louder. guest: this is a political reality. will to make history at the convention is much more difficult. forget about the political

will. just in terms of the rules, you are saying that is not the hard part. >> there are a couple different ways being floated. delegates become unbound on the second ballot. a simple word change. mark: to the question that he just raised, i know you have your finger on the dump truck movement. think about that? is there a political will to make history at the convention? guest: it's unlikely but there is increasing interest and the mechanics of this are easy enough that if donald trump continues to have a couple bad weeks, i expect his polling to few weeks as next

hillary clinton unites the democrat party and begins to get bernie supporters. i think he will could be there. i know at least two members of the committee have expressed interest. if you are of the view that donald trump is a standard understandnominee, i the point that this seems too extreme to do but if you are the view that donald trump is a threat to the party and the anti-gop he's platform, anti-constitution, why wouldn't you make a change to give every delegate the opportunity to vote their conscience? trump might still be the nominee but i think that's the right thing to do for the party. guest: i'm going to engage in a hypothetical. thejust trying to test system. don't get mad. trumphis away from donald and the things he's done that

have created so much controversy and race the question -- raise the question we are discussing. if the republican nominee killed a person, then the people on the committee would say of course we the to find a way to bring nomination to someone else, right? guest: you mean or if a candidate to got indicted? you want to get hypothetical. leaving aside the political environment, the media environment, what kind of offense could be committed this nominee might change your judgment about whether it's possible? guest: i'm not sure there is any. what i'm talking about is you need the leadership to be able to organize not only the rules committee of the convention but the 2472 delegates themselves. that group doesn't even gather together until the convention starts. you would need to see political

leadership in someone who the delegates would actually listen to and i'm not sure anyone has identified who those people are, combined with the need in the atmosphere of the convention to actually be able to form a system to get the delegates to do something like that. is benmy answer to that is being kind of limited by what we hear from the mechanical perspective, this has been an unprecedented year. donald trump is an unprecedented candidate and i think if the delegates themselves, they can organize amongst themselves and have enough power to make this happen. i think donald has already done everything that would need to be done for this to be on the table and the only thing that would have to change for to become viability.s his

his poll numbers are the only reason there are more prominent people talking about this. john: tim miller accused you of having a deadly lack of political imagination. is that the truth, you are limited by conventional thinking? guest: i like to think i see the entire horizon. i have been on the rules committee, worked conventions before. i think setting up a whip operation to achieve something historic like that is really difficult and you do need the leadership from the top. i'm not seeing that either from the leadership of the republican national committee or enough elected leaders that have the influence with you the delegates are. guest: i think ted cruz would be the person who could do it in theory. john: we had a lot of efforts that went around to try to find a third-party independent candidate.

now david french is out. where does that stand? is there any renewed interest in trying to go back to the original people or to others and say we need an independent candidate more than ever now? guest: i think there is. speaking on behalf of our principles pack, our effort was always focused on the nomination. they were never really interested in a third-party bid because of the challenges. is now andeadline issue having passed. there are major questions of a third-party bid. never say never but it seems unlikely to me. john: tim miller, it was great to have you. ben ginsberg, it is great you were here. coming up, a donald trump

conference call with surrogates, what it reveals about his campaign coming up. ♪

mark: this show is now in session. the presumptive republican nominee dealing with more reactions, pretty much all negative, whose comments about the mexican heritage of a judge overseeing the class action lawsuit against trump university. we will go through who has said what on this but first, breaking news. on a red-hotort conference call that trump held today with some of his top surrogates, during which he had some harsh towards about his own campaign's media strategy in

dealing with this incoming criticism. joining us now to talk more isut that conference call our colleague from washington, jennifer jacobs. this was a call that trump got on himself. tell us the nature of the call. convened an emergency call to speak to his surrogates, the people who speak for him, and he wanted to instruct them on talking points and what he thinks they should be saying. call, therere phone was no discussion of backing away from this or apologizing. it was all about counterpunching and figuring out how to attack. it was trump saying "i need you guys to speak for me, let's go hard at this, i think we can use this to take it to the next level." he thinks this can help them. mark: the kind of people on the call or what kind of people? top levelryone from

people like scott brown, the former governor from -- senator from massachusetts, jan brewer from arizona. there was a former apprentice contestant on the call and his pastor, mark burns. mark: unusual for the candidate to be reaping surrogates but .ell us some specific things tell us some of the things trump said in terms of how he instructed them to fight back. guest: jan brewer at one point "yourupted and said campaign sent us a memo last night instructing us not to talk about trump university, anything connected to trump organization's." and trump said "who sent this memo? i will throw that in the waste basket and you are fully uthorized to talk about this."

he was saying we will overcome. said you guys are the reason i'm having this call and sometimes you guys get information that's not smart. you guys get stupid information from people who aren't very smart but he promised to have more of these calls in the future. he was clearly rotated with reporters, not surprising. -- irritated with reporters, not surprising. he was doubling down, tripling down on this. clear, not only is notsaying that we should avoid talking about this, but we should amp up the rhetoric and try to do some kind of jujitsu move whereby he is telling his

surrogates to claim reporters and others for the sizing hemp -- criticizing him for this are the racists. guest: correct. and he said i have a house will judge, criticizing the judge again. one of the surrogates said we should go after the lawyers on this case. it was talking points on how to go harder. but i wantentioned to amplify it, one he says this thing about this is a stupid memo, telling them not to talk about it, and says people who aren't smart, he's referring to people who work for him, he is attacking his own staff, right? guest: right. he is a saying i need my surrogates talking for me so disregard this memo that was sent to you yesterday.

he was talking about his own aides who instructed these surrogates that they are not authorized to talk about trump university. with put that in context your other reporting on the state of the campaign -- trump attacking his own staff for being stupid. there are a lot of questions about whether this campaign is geared up to be a general election campaign. we know they are trying to professionalize it. this call was one case of trump trying to get everyone on the same page, trying to get everyone coordinated on a message and stressing people on what he once said. people have talked about how he doesn't have a rapid response team but these potentially a one-man rapid response team and on his own -- usually the nominee isn't on these phone calls with the surrogates, instructing them what to say but he said i want to do these in the future to make sure everyone

knows what you are supposed to be saying. was "i don't have a voice without you for -- and you." sourcesw do the characterize the tone of the call? guest: they said it was a little chaotic, people were interrupting each other. mr. trump was very era tended to hear about this memo. from their description, it sounds a little chaotic, he was irritated, trying to act as moderator. it sounded like it was an interesting phone call. mark: beyond what is published, there are some additional quotes you have that i would love for you to read. guest: there was a lot of discussion about the judge. .e's saying he's not a judge he was accusing the judge of in unsealing

documents and said he made some bad errors. he talked about a website dedicated to defending trump on this lawsuit. he was urging his surrogates to fight back against interviewers who ask him about this lawsuit and ask their media interviewer if they have read these 19,000 pages of comments, positive feedback. grilledogates said these reporters. he was saying we have a much better case, a good case on this and we have a much better case on everything. he talked about going after hillary clinton. he said the next thing we need to do is attack the clinton foundation topic. john: great story. it's on the website now.

when we come back, our conversation with david french right after these words from our sponsors. ♪