>> donald trump used his signature line your fire today. >> a message for his campaign manager, you're fired. areou're fired. >> and you fired. >> you are fired. >> go home. >> there is no place like home. donald trump will continue down the yellow brick road to cleveland. without a campaign manager. we have known about conflicts

between him and the man behind the curtain. the move today comes after weeks of that press and sinking poll numbers. while there are loyalists there is no love lost tween the manager and some advisors including michael caputo who tweeted -- along with this picture after the news broke. kaput-o. now he resigned after the tweet. >> bringing in a professional like all helped us grow the campaign and we need 10 more of these. the campaign needs to grow to a successful. theything that paul did for campaign was one less thing i had to do and i am thankful for that.

colleague will be on the show reporting this afternoon that paul plans to make additional campaign hires in the next coming days. let's get to this key first question. after months of tension having to people trying to run the campaign, bickering over over how decisions trump operates, donald trump's children and smothered visors convinced him this had to be done now. it had to be done for the symbolism to reassure people they recognize they have a problem and it had to be done because paul was the right person as donald trump, junior told me today with the right experience to run a campaign that could not handle to people trying to run it. >> if he did not run this thing on his own he was ready to walk away. this gives you a sense of just a catastrophic last three

weeks this has been in trump world. donald trump -- this is a guy who has been loyal. he did not want to get rid of corey who helped him win the nomination but it got so bad he had to make choice. children were involved. the other thing was the mechanical thing going forward. we do not know if he wants to run a serious campaign in the traditional sense. corey was not qualified to take you down that road. you she only do it with could not do it with corey. >> and much of the campaign occurs on the road with trunk and corey troubles every trip and it was difficult because traffic is not -- trunk is not in regular communication. somebody to monitor his behavior everyday. trump is watching a lot of cable

route -- news and he is reacting, they need his message to go out. with corey basically controlling the rhythm of the road, access to trump on the road that was not going to change. that needs to change along with .very -- other things >> there's always a problem between headquarters and the road. if they are in sync, things work well. if a are not things are chaos. ,hatever you want to say whatever corey is saying about paul, paul came into this campaign thinking he was going to run it. said i am the campaign manager even as corey had that title and corey insisted they were splitting the division of labor. passive aggressive and sometimes aggressive-aggressive. there is not a winning campaign that has that in a sustained way. this is not tenable. >> every campaign had tensions but this had a lot.

the two camps literally going to trump with opposition research on the other cap saying do you notice about this group, this will hurt us. you need targets. the campaign manager need be someonego on tv without sniping at them. trump had to make a change to substantive and symbolic reasons. probably not too late. now the question is given the change is this going to have an impact on trump's fortunes? a nice turn into your own question. i think there's a chance this will change nothing. nothing of importance. as much as the mechanical stuff is important to -- and you cannot win without having operations and doing advertising and doing data analytics, you need all that stuff the thing that is bedeviling the trump campaign is stuff that donald

trump is saying. it is stuff that is offending large sections of the electorate. it is giving the clinton campaign ammunition. if trump will not change himself and i do not think is any evidence to suggest that trump recognizes he is killing himself by saying the things he says, if trump does not change it does not matter. managed the who has campaign saw where the trump campaign stood on fundraising, aring, media, they would have coronary. they would say if this were six months ago we would behind schedule. i do not notice it hence dark hiring but he is free to do it clashes with corey. it was a month ago that people were talking about trump having a good chance. of get him to channel

his gifts of communication during about washington is corrupt, hillary is the same old , same old. not about trump university, not about referral issues. -- peripheral issues. that have gotten him in the most trouble, the sustained attack over the course of the week and -- on judge curiel. his reaction in a key moment after the orlando shootings, there's things i do not know there's anyone who can control him. brexit is pretty simple. maybe trump will not listen but if someone says here are the things you should talk about and hear the things she should not talk about. on the regular of set that megyn kelly said this or john heilemann said that, do not talk

about at. maybe trump will not listen but up till now no one was trying. >> we do not disagree that the situation has a chance of being better than the situation was before. like corey soy much -- trump likes being trump. , my extended conversation about the events of today. we will talk about new rules and the latest campaign for the contested gop convention. how hillary clinton is handling this important moment. but first, these important from -- which from our sponsors. ♪

john: donald trump is facing a -- of the at the contested convention. this is driven in part by a group of delegates who are still uneasy about trump. the group had conference calls including a big one last night. they are reportedly starting to raise money for their effort. a lot of interest among republican elites. how realistic is it to stop donald trump by letting elegance vote their conscience away streaker ryan suggested to chuck todd was ok with him? mark: if paul ryan, mitch mcconnell and -- especially

those two guys, if they are two. -- decide they were for this and would make a declaration that this was the state of where the party had to go it would be quite realistic. advocacysence of open i do not think it stands very good chance. i do not think it is very grassroots. mostly elites are concerned about the future of the party. republicans will have to campaign if donald trump remains donald trump. those are the two answers. mark: trump talked about it over the weekend in a way that made me think he was a little concerned about it. junior. donald trump, see that interview. he denounced it and went back to the main argument which is it takes away from the voters. suggested if ryan and mcconnell got kind of publicly

they would have a better chance theon the other hand and leader of the anti-trump meet -- movements it has to be grassroots. it has to be a shadow thing led by the grass roots and supported behind the scenes and maybe at the last minute. --depends on what tribe trump does. a lot of elites, even some grassroots types will be persuaded, he is our presumptive nominee. he has made a change. let's see if this produces a change to the campaign. if he continues to make mistakes they can do this at the last minute. mark: it only matters what happens between now and the second week in july. i think you're right that it makes it less likely. leadershipnge of followed by a change of behavior that carries through in a sustained way over the next or four weeks i will still predict

that trump will come back and say things are problematic for him politically but it might put some people at ease enough that it will allow him to be nominated. if this change happen today and there is this talk about a change and week from now he says something in the vein of what he said after orlando or what he said about judge curiel could increase the desire to make the change happened at the theention, to dump him at convention. people will come to the conclusion that there is no way he will change and that will make it on survival for too many republicans. interestingan question. if the parties nominate killed someone clearly they would find a way to change it. i was indicted. has said things in the minds of delegates short of

that. i do not think this movement can gain enough same that he can get it done during some additional developments. it is clear to me that there are hundreds of delegates currently are itching to try this and that can produce some messy conventions even if they are snuffed out. john: there are other leaders who are balancing all these risks and benefits of where they should be standing publicly, where they should be standing privately. a lot of them are so deeply concerned about the prospect he would like to see this kind of grassroots thing take off on its own. that would give them a level of and cover to get involved at the convention and allow this to happen or engineer it in some way. could feed onings each other, the grassroots getting stirred up and the leadership getting safety and taking action, you can see the whole thing get whipped up pretty fast especially if trump

says something provocative. mark: there is no such white knight. it will not be ted cruz or mitt romney or anyone in advance. i think there's a fair of the delegates who would take mystery door number two regardless of who is behind it. over donald trump. all have imaginations and they can imagine who will be behind that door. been the door and see a ticket of ryan-rubio. we will take our chances. >> we will lose that race because we will be starting so far behind. can campaign without fear of being decimated.

mark: donald trump, junior got will notthe voters prevail. there has been a muted reaction with the exception of trump himself over the weekend. relatively muted reaction from his supporters. i wonder if because some of them are concerned about his behavior or they do not taken seriously. normally you would see amongst in trump world even in social media you would see a pretty ferocious reaction. i have not picked that up. falls more to the latter category. they're not taking this seriously. the establishment is dead. our guy is time for now we will not worry about this. no one wants to run against trump. i think that is more of what is going on than that they are starting to worry. the diehards are still the diehards, the ones who love him. they are not worried about it. mark: it hangs on the balance, it depends upon performance.

our interview with donald trump, junior. we will be right back.

mark: we talked about the changing of the guard and i started out i asked him what voters should think about the change. towards a regular move unity. you have a campaign that is transitioning going from candidate to presumptive nominee to actual nominee and there is a

great evolution in that. i joked last time i sat with you i was in politics for two weeks. now it is five areas we have a lot more relationships with the teams. we are up against a very big machine and we need able that have those relationships, that have that experience. we have a good relationship with corey. we would -- we have had an incredible run, historic. you have seen that. to not only win the nomination but to do it at a level where you have the greatest voter turnout in gop history. it is pretty special but there's is a time when we have to move on and adapt and that time is now before the convention. makes perfect sense. giving more authority to call. this phase requires someone with more relationships and presidential campaign experience.

trump: that has happened already. the story is not necessarily over.dall has taken when you have a team that is running lean and mean and a are used to me to one person, making that transition is not always the easiest. this sets a precedent and shows we're doing that my we're making that shift and we are doing this as we want to unite the party and have everyone behind us which -- for the ultimate objective, beating hillary clinton. obviously my father will be the guy who is in charge. you need one guy running the day-to-day aspects of the campaign. to have more than that you will stumble -- stumble over yourselves. if there is one thing we pride ourselves on it is efficiency. getting rid of the excess that is so prevalent in the system where you have all this waste. those are the things we will get rid of.

mark: there is a tradition of family members who are the only once in the candidate to do something. i have watched her father and corey develop a relationship. isn't the case that you and your sister and your brother play some role in saying to your father that change is necessary? mr. trump: we are involved, we speak to him every hour. lexus is the appropriate decision to make. he will come to those decisions himself. no one will lead into the decision. it is how he built his business in talking to the construction worker, not the executive. he values their opinion. that resonates.

are we involved in talking with we have a great relationship with ari, he has done something that is incredible. i wish all separations of this nature went that well. mark: we were told that your judgment was that a change was required in you made the recommendation, that is what made him decide. respects he was coming to that on his own and we were there to augment that. and think it through. taking away a guy who was a pretty big force. are you concerned that corey's departure leaves a hole that will not be able to be filled trump: between the people who have reached out to us, i think we will be great.

we will be in a good spot. it will have a great campaign and i do not think it will be an issue. mark: spokespeople have denied it for weeks and as recently as this weekend. doesn't that make people cynical, something that is obviously true? someone comes in to take over a role there will be issues . that happens every day. that does not just happen on a political drill. i think that is day-to-day stuff and that will happen. if it did not happen and it was not out there it would be totally abnormal. that will not be an issue going forward and we are going to run a great campaign as we have for the last year. mark: it has to be denied at the

time, it makes people feel a little cynical. >> we can deny some of these gross allegations over this crazy infighting that was going on. better i wouldow think i was watching game of thrones. there is the difference between what is actual versus what is being reported. to fill a 24 hour new cycle. i get it. as exciting as this stuff can be for me it is not that exciting to average people. you have to create the storyline. i get it. say is none of the stuff that has been reported and i have read about is not nearly as exciting and dramatic as it is in 140 characters or less on my twitter feed. mark: he did not want to admit it. they recommended this

in that is a pretty big deal. it is common in campaigns. you see often a decision needs to be made. the candidate is loyal to someone. it took the family to intercede and say this must be done. john: here's the most important thing. worldis a dispute in the in people who report on this family. know the first is still in question. mark: more from that interview later in the program. delegateotential revolt in cleveland. we'll have that for you right after this. ♪ you guy's be good. i'll see you later

[ bark ] [ bark ] bye. see ya pal. ever wonder what your pets do when you leave home? [ laughing ] aw you cutie pie. aw. aw. aw. aw. [ barking ] [ washing machine running ] party's on! know what your pets are up to with xfinity home. xfinity. the future of awesome. see the secret life of pets, in theaters july 8th. >> my strategy has been and it let trump trump.

you have a person who has completely changed the way that politics is viewed in this country for the better. he has had his heart and his of theon the pulse american people for a long time. i am a first has been help the him implement his ideas. mark: that was the former campaign manager. as donald trump's poll numbers are sleeping. clinton is leading. rating is 57%able compared to clinton and 52. republicannow, a greenberg instand

our d.c. bureau. thank you both for being here. the room we here in will start with you. how optimistic are you about the change that occurred causing substantial change in the overall outlook of the term campaign? extra campaign wants to expand its operation. the rnc will be helpful to its nominee. mr. trump is fulfilling some of those responsibilities. i believe that -- >> is that your sense that corey was an obstacle to getting things done? >> that is not for me to say. as a campaign expands sometimes you have to move it away from central location into the states. other candidates have done this.

bill clinton got rid of dittmar said the convention when it was happening in july of that year. loss and john kerry made a replacement. this is not new for campaign. i think your interview with donald trump, junior is telling. that is the best explanation one would have for what has happened. you were involved in to in 1992 andaigns 1996. i have seen some staff infighting. is this the solution? if the solution is the operation of the campaign, is this the solution to what ails donald trump? >> no. it could not be less important. if i think about the bill

clinton campaign we cannot in january and the california primary. we were in negative territory in our favorability. in a mistrust problems for june was devoted to counter scheduling my defining him, introducing his biography, remember -- reminding people that this was a humble guy from arkansas. the entire convention was devoted into presenting have to the country. moment forg introducing him to the country. here we are talking about organizational issues that do not at the heart of the candidate. we spend so much time leading up to that january thinking through it was called the manhattan project. how were we going to re-present into the country and get the most out of this? that's what is so unique about this.

we are talking about the period of time where you typically improve favorability and reintroduce yourself, after locking up the primary, the per iod for other candidates who succeeded in proving their position, consolidating, and winning, and here we are going in the opposite direction. >> when you look at the totality of the polls, a few weeks ago they were roughly even in the national horserace numbers. again, not apples to apples, but most professional polls show trump with a deficit. where, demographically, does he need to go to get the race tightened up? >> several places. one is among independents. mitt romney did carry independents, but only by four points, and that is not enough to make up deficits among other groups, among african-americans, hispanics, women -- where romney lost by double digits. mr. trump, because he is in

a sense a true independent candidate himself, he can make a case to independents that hillary can to cannot, i am just like you, i have never been a politician. you have to shore up the base before you can expand. he will do that. we are in a critical time right now, where there is no evidence that the voters want the race to now, which ist is basically a substance-free, content-free, non-conversation cacophony of who said what about whom. i bring the conversation back to real issues, and if i were donald trump, i would really have a conversation on the issues against hillary int clinton. mr. trump, he also needs to shore up some working class voters who have been with him all along, and will continue to be, as bernie sanders continues to move away from challenging

hillary clinton. >> if trump improves with independents, republican women, and working-class voters, does this bring the race back to parity? >> no. not if he's only doing it -- well, we are not going to parity. >> why? >> structurally, the country is in a different place than it was. right now, the democrats have a 14-point higher favorability than the republican party. the party is being defined by trump, and by the primary. also, these voters have been watching trump over a long time. look, during the primaries, general election voters, i think they admired what was happening with trump amongst primary voters. he was going up to 60% negative amongst general election voters during the primary process, and they were watching very closely. they were watching it very closely. they were. and they, he is doing with that, and his main problem is women.

right now if you look at the abc poll, the unfavorable with women is over 70%. 67% very unfavorable. you can't win the working class, when he majority of the white working class are women. so he has this core problem that just cannot be solved by picking up particular groups. >> sure. we can have the same debate about hillary clinton. we could run the same segment and focus on hillary clinton 's negative poll ratings. i was struck by your bloomberg poll last week. everyone is so obsessed with the horse race numbers, but i look at over 70% of voters you survey that said each of the following bothered them. hillary clinton's fbi investigation, the handling of the server, and her making millions of dollars from wall street speeches. that's over 70%. most americans don't say, favorable or unfavorable. they say, you know what really bothers me? i'm bothered that she is a tool of wall street now. i think the attributes show she unlikable,worthy and

and that should not be dismissed, because they want to move this from a hillary clinton referendum, where it should be, to a referendum on donald trump. >> we will have you back again on the show. we have to go to break. >> good to see you. >> we always have to get in attacking hillary clinton, whenever she is on the show. thank you. up next, if you are watching us in washington, you can listen to us on the radio at bloomberg 99.1 fm. we will bureau back.

♪ ♪ john: and now for something completely similar, part two of

my interview with donald trump junior. i talked about delegates trying to stage a revolt at the convention in cleveland next month. mark: as you know, a lot of talk over the weekend about this notion of the delegates being able to vote. is this something you want to oppose? donald: you listen to the people. we have spoken about this on your very show, mark. you can go to pennsylvania and win every single gop voter, but give 17 of the 72? it's a little ridiculous. the politicians don't always give what the people want. there's a reason we had the mass turnouts. there's a reason we had this movement, not a campaign anymore. people are sick of that nonsense. if they try to do something like that, it is a perfect example of d.c. as usual. john: so on the specific question of, should they be allowed to vote with their conscience rather than be bound by the vote, you say you would oppose that? donald:, they have to go by what their people said, and their people spoke very loud, very clear in all the states, 37

states, against a record-sized crowd of people who have done this for years and years. that should say something. it's not about their conscience. it's the conscience of their people. so what paul ryan said over the weekend, they should be allowed to vote their conscience -- donald: paul ryan can say what he wants. when i say the d.c. people doing this, that's what upsets me, and everyone else i speak to about d.c., whether that is other guys in similar positions to me, or blue-collar guys working hard for a living. they are sick of seeing that clause -- quasi, maybe we will do this, maybe this is what we will do. they are sick of politicians who have a job to do, running for reelection in 2020 or 2024, and that's happening with a lot of these guys. up hisour father sewed nomination sooner than hillary clinton, and in that time he has gone from being a little ahead to some polls to being pretty

much behind in some polls. today, down seven. what happened to cause him to move from an even position to a little behind, recognizing there is time left? donald: you have obama getting each is about him, hillary giving speeches about him, biden and speeches about him. the left is doing the unified attack, but the message will dial away when you get into all the corruption, all the nonsense, all the place, fraud -- waste, fraud, and abuse. i think that goes away. they will be ebbs and flows. for us being first time politicians, that transition -- what i love for it to go smoother? sure. but everyone underestimated us, every step of the way, and we have always surprised them. we will do that again. mark: you say you will come back? donald: i don't think we are 12 points behind. we are neutral in a lot of places, in a lot of places that matter. there are states we are not the swingin, and

states, the gap is much closer from what i have seen and read, and i think we will change that. we will have a unified message now, and we will work well with the gop, which would have been doing, creating that relationship. this is all part of the process. i saw polls for months. since july of last year, they said there is exactly is your percent chance he could win the nomination -- a 0% chance he could win the nomination. i don't give credence to the early.his are messages about the american people, about jobs, about getting rid of the nonsense that prevails over washington. there's a reason 40 million people voted for him in a historic primary. there's a reason bernie put, against the anointed one, put forward an unprecedented show. people are sick of the d.c. narrative. they are sick of watching politicians like hillary clinton, who from 2070 2014 made $140 million when -- 2007 to

2014 made $140 million when running the state department. our government is not hedge fund -- their hedge fund. it is a disgusting fraud, and if a republican did what she did, they would be in jail by now. mark: look towards the camera and address two types of people -- what would be your message be to republicans who are trying to change the rules, to make the convention more open, not just a coronation of your father's victory? donald: republicans trying to change the rules need to listen to their people. we are in this place, and it is both republicans and democrats. people are not happy with government, not happy with d.c. the notion of, i don't prescribe to all 10900 and 99 -- 10,999 points of conservative dogma,

thereby you cannot be a conservative. i don't think that's the average general election voter. we should listen to the people for a change, and put someone in who is not known for the same old, same old. mark: and what is your message to the folks across the river in brooklyn, in clinton headquarters to the late -- who of late have been confident? donald: i'm glad they are confident. iowa's like to be underestimated. we have been underestimated in every way. they have a team of 875 people to our 70, and we are doing pretty good. and abuse isfraud, just a continuation of the clintons' waste and fraud and abuse of the decades. they will not run this country any differently. in obama's own words, she will tell you anything, and nothing with action change. that's not going to change, miraculously now, a different hillary than we have seen the last 25 years, a different clinton organization that will not be correct or fraught with scandal.

give me a break. it's the same thing over and over again. mark: so your dad is going to win? donald: he is. mark: so let's and with the voters. forle who are really stopping hillary clinton -- the trunk campaign is stronger now than before, because why? donald: we are getting to the general election, getting to where independents, people who are totally against washington, totally against the establishment on both sides, can finally china and for a person who -- chime in for a person who is exactly that, who has not milk the government for decades to personally enrich himself. he someone who brought jobs, whether it be building, construction, all these things, he's the only guy who assigned the front of the paycheck year. everybody else, they talk about job creation like they know how it's done, and they never created one. it is all theory, not practice. time to put someone who actually practiced it in real life, instead of over and over and

over again, for 40 years. let him be in charge. let him do it. let everyone agree to it. the other side, you are not going to get anything different with the other guys, just a new batch of the same old, same old. we are not the same old, same old. we will continue to make mistakes -- i don't think he will continue make mistakes, he will be himself, he will be trump, and that generally has gone very well for him his entire life. mark: thanks to donald junior, trump junior. up next, our trump reporter mike bender opens his notebook on today's campaign drama, right after this.

john: joining us now from our washington bureau, a man u who

has been all over the trump stories today, bloomberg senior political reporter michael c. bender. mike -- look at him there, in all his glory. [laughter] tell me this. how much do you think, on the basis of what we currently know, that this is a trump capitulating to pressure, versus trump embracing what might come next by those who put the pressure on him? mike: i think it's more of the latter here. corey lewandowski has been in trouble, hanging on basically since iowa. the first time trump tried to fire him, the people around trump wanted lewandowski out, was after the iowa loss. trump doesn't hundred feet -- handle defeats well. lost,as the first he and he has been hanging on ever since, largely in part to his aggressive personality that trump identifies with. but the loyalty only go so far,

and for trump, family is a much bigger issue, a much bigger question than any long-term loyalty to corey. what is your sense of how this has been reacted to so far by republicans unhappy with the direction of the campaign? mike: they promised this pivot before. this gives trump the chance to pivot to a broader campaign. he picked the seasoned political veteran, paul menard -- manafort, who has experience in both domestic and international politics, versus lewandowski, the iressa -- irascible former state police officer. the message is trying to reach out to a broader electorate in the general election. but this is something republicans have heard time and again now, and that we have heard for a week, particularly from rnc members, activists in their own states who can trigger their own grassroots campaigns

back there, that they regret resting -- trusting manafort when he came to them in april and said, here comes your pivot. and what have we seen since then? the veterans news conference, trump university. you guys know the list. it is lengthy. john: mike, it seems the pivot is, what was promised was a pivot of two kinds. to ben operational pivot competitive in a general election, and the other was a message pivot, a demeanor pivot, presidential a more -- projecting a more presidential affect. it seems trump wants a presidential operation, but does he need to change the image and the words coming out of his mouth? mike: it's hard to say. only thing i can say is that we will see. my colleague, jennifer jacobs,

and i interviewed trump a couple weeks ago in his new york office. one thing we brought up was the teleprompter. everybody wanted him to be more scripted, what you are saying, a more disciplined message, and he dismissed it out of hand. we have seen him use the teleprompter in speeches, but he made a point of saying, i'm never going to use those for a rally. if i go to a teleprompter at these rallies, people will go to sleep, they will stop coming if i am boring. so definitely corey was trump's id when it comes to the messaging and the combativeness, but that is trump, too, so we will see how long this last. john: mike, go out there and find out what family neighbors helped push corey out, and think their father has to change in terms of what is presented to voters. mike bender, thank you very much. we will be right back.

john: need more? check out bloomberg' politics.com for a lot more on the news in trump world today. bloomberg west," emily chang speaks to the ceo of zte usa. tomorrow, more from donald trump junior, including his thoughts on who his father will take as running mate. and we have to talk about the nba finals. mark: see you tomorrow. same time, same channel. until tomorrow, sayonara. ♪

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>> you are watching bloomberg west. at theegin with a look news. the fbi has released the transcript of the orlando 911 andtalking with

crisis negotiations. >> he identified himself as an and he wasdier intent on killing americans. >> the bureau says that he was radicalized in the united states and not i-84 in terror group. a foreign terror group. campaign manager for donald trump had been let go. -- has been let go. zika vaccine on humans. they plan to start testing the vaccine in a few weeks on 40 people. the cavaliers are back in cleveland, after delivering the