♪ announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." vote was preceded by two months of intense debate. the leave campaign one by 50 3%. the british pound fell to a 30 year low. it momentarily dropped.

the prime minister said he would step down in october. >> the negotiation will need to begin under a new prime minister. they will start the formal and legal process of leaving the eu. called the cision independence day for britain. nomineeive republican also praised the result. >> people want to take their country back. they want to have independence in a sense. you're going to have more than what happened last night. they are going to take their monetary back.

>> president obama maintained that they would maintain the relationship. boris johnson said there was no need to rush britain's exit. that he wantssaid britain out as soon as possible. formeriliband, a secretary of state and now president of this committee. roberts,london, andrew a british historian and journalist. i am pleased to have all of them on this program. i begin in london. what happened? huge upsurge of opinion. tired ofre sick and having better 65% of laws made in brussels. they started to take back our

independence. absolutely. i never thought it would happen in my lifetime. i think it is a very sad day for britain. speak to a real indictment of the political leadership center right and center left. they have lost the confidence of the public and the fact that the campaign was a result against experts and reason. it speaks to a fundamental condition of our politics that is dangerous. which is that there is an assault on reason. 60% of britain's laws are made in europe.

it was the house of commons library that said that. >> others have documented this. it is very important to understand that the economic fact side by side. real tragedy for britain is that the prospect of being able to be part of tackling what still exists around europe: migration issues, economic issues. we have lost that privilege. >> i'm in the sad and bad category as well. we're going to have a long procedure of negotiations. let's getgoing to say a big divorce. the british is good to say we want time. it is highly likely that nothing is going to begin and told october. it will not file article 50 until then.

have a long. of uncertainty. that is what markets hate. there looking at britain. i am a little more sympathetic to some of the least people. liverpoola noble and trend to it. was a britaint free of regulations but there are a lot of people on the other side who wants to get rid of immigrants. that seems to have driven the passion. charlie rose: david, what do you think? the british people have sent a very clear signal. they have given them a mandate for something that cannot happen. if you look at one of the northern industrial towns that voted early.

gigantic is home to a hub. sunderland were saying that they want an end to foreigners having free movement into the u.k. but they certainly want to carry on having their jobs and selling cars into europe as before. they want the same press 30 and free trade as before but not the free movement of workers. i don't think they can have both. i don't think any politician including boris johnson can deliver that for them now. torlie rose: who is likely be the next prime minister of britain? >> i think the newspapers will talk about boris johnson since he is the leader of the leaves campaign. some people say he is not a man for detail.

like teresaomeone may or someone else in the conservative movement. this is going to be a tough p eriod. we are going to have a short-term economic hit. we're going to be trying to negotiate the new arrangements at that time and it is very striking to me that people are now beginning to talk about the norway option. are part of that. they do have to accept the free movement of people. is going to come because the leave campaign did not have any degree of scrutiny of its perspectives for government. it was arguing against something and not for something. >> i agree with david on the poorest thing. a longy party has history.

boris johnson will be held as the person who took cameron down. and you would be the person who would be the best. >> i think if he can be e.rsuaded than michael gov it looks like he doesn't want to do the job. he is temperamentally opposed to becoming prime minister. people rose: a lot of have predicted economic disaster, a global slowdown. christine lagarde said that credible forecast said that britain would lose 10% of its gdp. also had the prime minister talk about the dangers of war in the continent. has come up with

swarms of locusts from egypt. charlie rose: you do not believe in these consequences question mark >> there will be the short-term hit. the pound has fallen. as far as the idea of being economic dislocation, i don't see that happening. we export so much less to europe than europe exports to us. is a direct and obvious financl danger for europe to try and treated us like norway. we are not norway. we are the fifth largest economy in the world and the second in the european union. there are more jobs in europe dependent on trade with europe. it is a lot of fear mongering. are being dragged into the

arguments of the campaign. but the initial feedback is not positive. is that theystrong see no real merit in giving britain a good deal because they don't want the same thing to happen to other nations. it is possible that christine lagarde on that level is a disregard. the idea of the pound seeking .uch further, that is something it could go down to 120. what is happening throughout new york is you can see banks and , how many of those

are we going to keep? they are certainly not going to for more investment. any country which is running a current deficit depends on the ofrent -- kindness strangers. britain is running one of the highest. we're cutting ourselves off from the world's richest, single market. constituency next-door. the leadership in japan has been clear that this productiveness is there's export to european markets on the right terms. i feared the 3-5 consequences more than the one to two-year consequences which will nonetheless the horse severe. i think this idea that we are going to have this slow pace of with draw is going to be tested in broken in the next few

months. they may not want to move ahead but they're going to figure out what to do. the negotiating start is clear. they are not even an negotiating team yet. they're not in position to run a negotiation. here in washington dc is hearing someone like andrew is asking to let the democratic voice be heard. confident that foreigners including the american people and government are going to be completely cool rational calculators looking at that balance of trade. here is the thing.

people are also angry about free trade in washington. it is hard to get free trade deals through congress at the moment. andrews simpson think of motion will be and will the day. i challenge him to look at paul , an and ask about the agenda brits.ade deal with the how do you think that will go through congress? all, we have accused of not being rational and now we are too rational. it is got to be one or the other. the fact is, rationality does tradehen it comes to deals and they want to make more money out of us than we do out of them. why on earth would it be in their interest to screw that favor? >> you like rationality for foreigners but a motion for brits?

>> whitey think democracy is an emotion. it is just as rational. it is better when you're actually in charge of your own national destiny. there's nothing emotional about it. charlie rose: let me raise the question with what might follow in terms of scotland or northern island or france? are we going to see, is this the beginning of a series of people wanting to extract from some relationship either the european union or something else? >> we know that the scottish has already said that this is the trigger for the beginning of a move towards a second referendum. is ahreat to the u.k. clear and present danger. the point here is that the world is more interdependent. jfk wroteears since

about interdependence. 60 years on it is more interdependent but we have got people saying that we need to run our own affairs. that is the crunch thing brought out by this. france already seeing and other countries celebrating this. this is a challenge to the liberal ideological order. on trade, on the environment, on security. it has expanded the european union. i think that the historic role that britain has played, to be a stabilizing force has been by britain being an arsonist on the system. i think the basic short

answer to your question is in other countries, the dutch has been making noises. we have got the spanish elections. italy has a big constitutional issue. wasink probably not but i someone that thought probably not brexit as well. things that were impossible are now possible. is the chances of the european union coming apart. are anidea that we arsonist on the world stage because we have had breakfast is completely ludicrous. we are going to stay in the g-8. we're going to stay in the united nations. the reason we have security on ,he european continent for nato

we are also going to stay in. the only thing we are not going in this old, protectionist, unpleasant thing that 17.4 million people have voted to get out of. we are not arsonist in the slightest. point about scotland and northern ireland and wales, they voted in the majority for brexit. a lot of scots voted remain because they do not want another referendum. they thought that would happen if remain one. when it comes to a second referendum, they are going to vote against leaving the united kingdom. ♪

part of the backlash is him saying that the country has had enough of experts. people feel that the people who brought us the financial crisis don't have any credible -- credibility. that thereeen saying

is not going to be a recession. it will be a little bit bumpy. i think the british public doesn't have a clue what is going to happen next. is the are going to see people who voted for leave, they are going to be the ones who suffered the most. the people with the sunderland car factory are the most vulnerable. he's accusing the eu as being a protectionist project. it is a free market project with some protectionist forces in it. britain was the voice of reason there. the voicehatcher was against the french. he is a historical and walking away on everything britain stood for. >> by the time margaret thatcher , she was out of power at the

time. by the time she saw with the other treaties had done for the european union, she was all in favor of brexit. hugely, she -- how she would but yesterday is obvious. quoted this man saying referendums are the last refuge of demagogues and dictators. [laughter] whether there is a labor prime minister or conservative prime minister. >> it has been used a lot in britain since 1975. we have elected mayors on the back of it. >> we are all guilty. cap -- canada and australia use it. is australia of fascist dictatorship? charlie rose: did david cameron

have to do this? >> that is the ultimate tragedy. he did not. he ended up in a situation where he bought some self some space with ukip. i don't believe myself he would've been toppled as conservative prime minister he had not committed to a referendum. i think he's going to have plenty of time to think through whether or not this is mf global. my own political judgment is he was not doomed to do this. there is an important point here. a figure on the conservative side of politics. david played along until january of this year.

think it did jar with the electorate. only in the last three months did he turn his view that the european union is good. looking back on it, that might've have been the moment he was doomed. was that he help did not want to serve a full term. if we are to take the attitude that boris johnson is something of an opportunity's, that game more room for boris to jump through. the culmination of those two things felt him. charlie rose: highly look at this on how they two parties handle themselves in terms of the debate. did one side make their case better and is that self evident? >> it is never a good time when

the most popular argument is not factually true. upis true that they ended referring their argument to two or three big things. one was that turkey was about to join the european union and there was nothing europe -- britain can do about it. there was a made-up number about every week that britain is paying for europe. third, that a european army was coming. cameron, ie david don't think the fundamental act of cowardice on david's part was a referendum. the fundamental act of cowardice was a very rich act, to do the right thing but then too scared to do the right thing.

hundreds of thousands turned out. by opening our labor markets, we got the best educated graduates and english speakers who wanted to work legally. it was a net plus for the british economy. they pay more in taxes. david miliband's labor government, they do not talk about it at all. madevid cameron immigration as a negative. one of the big on this -- arguments was he could not make it. he'd already taken one of his key arguments off the table by throwing red meat at the anti-immigrant camp. i think that was the real cowardice. >> there are two coup things that i would say. that absolutely right those who believe in an open britain need to make a case for managed might ration -- migration.

secondly, i think that we made a policy mistake in 2005 when we did the right thing in supporting european law. it was a historic achievement for the world frankly. we do not have a transitional plan. there were two aspects of that. almost worse was that we have predicted that 50,000 would come. he was the sense that one thing have been told but 10 times as many came that corroded us on whether we were being straight. the numbers being produced were kosher. i think throughout this campaign there has been a policy debate, people like us that want to be about facts and a political fact -- debate on whether anything is true.

what happened in 2005 contributed to that. charlie rose: how much of this was about immigration? those twon terms of demographics. there were some people on the side wasde -- leave fed up with regulation from brussels. they wanted to take back their had a sense that the eu was a failing project. there was one bit. on the doorstep was those heat maps on what issue cropped up. it was always immigration. it was the most powerful thing. take thatse: constituency who had the vote for leave. how similar is it to the constituency that is supporting donald trump? sure many of us were thinking about trump.

it may not matter how well hillary argues. if people are determined to give people a good kicking. charlie rose: it's the establishment. >> there is the same generic bit about globalization. supportedf us have globalization creating economic and uncertainty and classes of losers. those are the people that form these course of movements. say don't think you can that 17.4 million people that voted as a protest movement. it is not -- much more than that. i don't believe it was primarily about class or age were racial things. i think it was because of the european union.

it was very unpopular for a long period of time. when thes immigration, premise or said they were going to be tens of thousands coming and the net migration number it was 300 30,000. it is not racist to want have to have control of your own borders. they did decide that enough was enough. overall, this is a perfectly reasonable thing for her nonracist people to do. charlie rose: are there any implications that go beyond markets in terms of the cultural issues? >> the real important thing to say to an american audience is that it has gone from being a the 1960's. race in

it is now about polls and others. there are two parts, there are allegations about it costing jobs are driving down wages. the microeconomics around this shows the lowest immigration is in the highest growth areas. there is a very strong feeling that it has been a huge challenge to public services. can i been more about, get my kid to school? your question is politics about more than the captivating machine. the answer must be yes. questions of identity are put front and center. of key to understanding center and succulent of issues of inequality are coming

together. the brexit referendum is one example of that. charlie rose: she said to me, it's about what it means to be french. >> that is really striking thing. aboutolls said a lot immigrants taking jobs. ther pensioners were one of groups that voted most strongly to leave. i think it points to how much about the identity. .aving been out on the trail the real link is that idea that if you feel the country has been stolen from you and that everything feels wrong, it is a conspiracy the of malign forces. , thatne should understand selfishness and putting number one first, america first, britain first, that is emotion that drove this. think brexit was driven by selfishness. it is personally reasonable to

want to govern ourselves. ask america. the idea that we were going to put up forever with the european union is not credible. >> you yourself have claimed that our membership of nato shows how much more will you will remain integrated in the global system. we can't have it both ways. we are either power of global institutions or we retreat from it. >> why were the experts wrong? it was the polls, it was the bookmakers and the markets. all those three together. referendum are inherently difficult to do because you have no previous sample. you can go back and compare things with the last brexit referendum. you have to guess and they tried .o guess

they obviously got it wrong. the markets have been good at predicting these things. we haven't mentioned the murder of joe coxe. -- jo cox. >> it seemed to stop the juggernaut that was building up. whether or not this terrible tragic murder of this young lady was going to affect the way they voted. waythere is virtually no that they are going to get that right. there seem to be such thing as shy brexit tears.

to tellt don't want posters. it goes to in more of the psychology is happening politically. charlie rose: thank you very much for joining us from london. >> thank you very much. we will be right back. stay with us. ♪

charlie rose: improvisation has

become one of the most popular forms of comedy in recent years. was unique style of comedy started by a glow close. in the early 1990's, he worked with a group of comedians known as the upright citizens again. troop movedcomedy to new york. most biggestthe name in comedy today. the improv festival was created deal" inthe legacy of his death in 1999. here are the four founders. amy poehler, ian roberts and matt walsh. i am pleased to have each of them here. welcome. well should we say about the

brigade? >> good question. names set to hear our from your mouth. it is kind of a thrill. we should be described as a disreputable lunch. rascalsike the little who have cobbled together a successful school. we have the schedule here. what is key about it? started and is a much bigger thing. it is a large community of comedies and writers. it is almost a philosophy in many ways. it is a community and it is made up of the community that inhabits it.

>> we can build our comedy theater that way. we have a different cast for every show. now representst a bunch of people. charlie rose: were you inspired by second city? >> we fell into it honestly. having a theater into school. we were doing our show. there were these people who had some interest in and privation we started teaching classes. eventually at one point we were at a theater and we are renting so much space we were paying their rent. at that point, we said we should

have our own theater. i mentioned dale close. he kind of rejected second city. .e just do sketch he always said that improv can be its own art form. he had a funny contentious relationship with him but eventually he left. he developed this form called the herald. andeally ticket to fruition was when we started taking classes from him. he developed this thing with other people. he took it to the next level which is long pole improvisation.

>> it is games. we need a new film genre so we would do what he allen type. longform is sprung from one word suggestions, you usually do 30-45 minutes. >> it moves seamlessly so the best thing you get's you have -- coming up to you asking did you plan that? is it istimate goal written not. it is not just the length, we a longformbe it by scene. charlie rose: is there a sense that improvisation is coming up? chicago,e were in there is maybe a hundred 20 people in the community. now there's probably a million

improvisers worldwide. york. in new here it wascame like bringing silt to america. they were like, what are you doing? but this improv was unique outside of chicago. it was wild and now we have this marathon where we are getting people from finland and japan. they have taken these lessons and interpreted from their own culture. charlie rose: explain to me this. >> it is a simple idea that when you are doing a scene, instead of shutting down some one's idea right away. you agree to it and add something to it. it is a way to make a scene continue and a philosophy in

terms of how you create together with another improviser. you work together to figure out what the scene is going to be. if i came in and said the doctor will see you now and you say i don't know what you're talking about, i came to get my tire change. what you are saying is i didn't listen to you and i decide where we are. it is hard to keep going forward. that is a big part of improv. you listen and build off. tell me aboute: this weekend. deal closed passed away in 1999. he always felt underappreciated. tell us that and imply that. many of his peers went on to

greater notoriety. people knew who he was but he was so influential to those people and then went to the coast and did their thing. died, we felt a lot of the students felt he needs to be appreciated more. we don't want his memory to die out with him. we put on a marathon at that point it. just. , at that gotten shows point it was only about a hundred people. there is a lot of drinking and smoking and bald i must day.

this was for the marathon. [laughter] night amongay or many of our stages, there is somebody on their performing. you do a show and come back and sleep. it is this feeling that the theater never closes and it is uniquely new york. it is in the city that never sleeps. how many years have you been doing it? >> 15 years. on our 15th year, we got a documentary crew and shop all thing. andid a lot of interviews released it this year. .t is just got bought it is a documentary called thank you, del. is kind ofcharlie

our goal. it was our goal from the beginning. achieves theere goal. people know how influential he was. charlie rose: this is a quote from you from 2008. you said that the hardest thing is to get the point where you can live life on stage. remember that? have this saying. nothing is exaggerated but you tried it transfer that feeling on stage. you don't want to try to be funny. they kind of disassociate from what real life is like. it is trying to stay grounded and real so that the first unusual thing is what you catch. charlie rose: take a look at this. 1990's a sketch from the

upright citizens brigade live show. we will find out. >> we are a breach in the far hole. please confirm. russelloing to activate arm into a complete diagnostic. roger that. it appears to be working without me. affirmative. it is burly -- automated. [indiscernible] it is telling me to get out. [laughter] don't mind that.

we're not going to worry about it. >> there is nothing to worry about. euston, i was under the impression. they are under that impression as well. [laughter] here.were not informed it is on a need to know basis only. the rams arm is stronger. surely it will be quickly defeated. activate blowtorch now.

if flipping off. >> you discovered and not get. .he object word that was me, guys. that was your addition for snl? can't believe the robot arm never got there. i was in new york right when we moved here. we moved here to showcase our sketch shows and they eventually bought it. that was a scene that never made it to the show. we were working out a new scene. >> that was a written scene.

what that scene shows is a good example of heightening again. the scene starts with an astronaut ready to take off. there in the cockpit with them. cape canaveral in houston starts fighting. improvobably came out of and then someone wrote it up. we used to take all the shows and then comb ideas for sketches. reallyu know you could improvise that night. >> this was before the internet. -- cannot fill in staff posted on youtube. what a sweet about that video is that we recognized all the laughs of a people in the audience. from netflix to

lots of other things. television goes in terms of certain periods of drama and then it will slow down. then you will see the rise of comedy. where are we now if there is a singular life to this? a boom of content in general. there is this ucb show where we shoot the best material from our better. now you can see it anywhere in the country. that was the goal of ours. we are going to have our own television station one day. to 30n't have to appeal million people anymore. it happen one

stage. comedy youthe exact want to do and only appeal to a million but still be considered successful. i mention all of these people. this is an incredible history of comedy that he was a part of. >> he was probably the most famous person in comedy that people don't know enough about. he was one of the most hilarious people's teacher and mentor. we were in chicago at a time when chris farley had kind of and io go on to success

arrived at second city with steve carell and stephen colbert on the main stage there. guys were already performing in a successful team in chicago. there is just a feeling that something was happening there. there was a hope that you could put in your time on stage and get a job. we could feel that that that feeling there. >> you can't train someone to be funny. buts farley was hilarious he was also a force of nature that needed to be given a little direction. really did have these techniques that you don't see just as an audience member. >> you can be funny within

yourself. the rules are great for writing to. to. are used just knowing that scene in comedy. there are those patterns because it adheres to the rule. charlie rose: many a great comedian and when they are working on standup. and healking to lucy k is trying to hone and new standup routine. it is going to take me six months. i will get one good idea and then go to a club to try it out. i was struck by the sense of where it comes from and how the idea of making a perfect as good as possible.

get where you are at least willing to present. you couldn't have a book if you can't teach it. --re is a method and people it's just not true. you.he laughter tells when we did our shows repeatedly before we honed those schedules like that. andcould listen to the tape know where the last word. >> the other side of that is being able to do a show that only exists for that moment. often times good that it goes away.

>> with all due respect to bob dole who just joined twitter. on the show tonight is a work week that has started with a political bang. you have your exit aftermath. democraticve two superstars. the fact that they are both women as one is eyei t