announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. charlie: in 1994, a young rolling stone reporter got the chance of a lifetime, appear interview with rock and roll legend keith richards. now more than 20 years after that fateful day, kohn has written a book cataloging his years with the band and never before read interviews with rock and roll legends. it is called the sun and the moon and the rolling stones. the "chicago tribune" calls the book masterful and goes on to say hundreds of books have been written about this particular band and kohn will rank among

the very best of the bunch. i am so pleased to have my friend rich kohn back at this table. >> thanks for having me. >> first time for us at this table, but not the first time for us talking. we just noted here, one of the great things about a book like this is that so much has been written about the stones, but you bring this perspective to it that is unique. that goes back to not just when you met them in 1994, but your childhood. >> when i was a little kid, the youngest brother and my favorite song for a long time was rhinestone cowboy by glen campbell. when i felt sorry for myself, i would go into my bedroom listening to it. i heard my brother had moved up to the attic and locked the door to all comers. i heard the cow bell that was honky tonk women. it picked me up and levitated me up into his room where i heard just enough it before he beat me back down the stairs, it ruined me for life and made

me a lifelong rolling stones fan. i got the experience to travel around the country with the stones. >> you called it heaven at the time? > he ascended to heaven. just because my parents are too lazy to walk up the extra flight of stairs. >> let's take it back to beyond where it began with you, where it began for the stones because this takes up so much of this book, it all comes back to the blues. >> well, i'm from chicago. i got really interested in the blues going to the checker board lounge which was buddy guy's club. basically they would serve you red wine when you were 14 years old. so we started going down there when i was a kid. the rolling stones showed up there and played there. muddy waters would play there. this music, when i heard, i just remembered, i wrote about it in the book, this club in amsterdam, milky way, famous club sitting there at a table and hearing muddy waters sing

i'm a man and it was like you can almost hear the music turning from the delta blues into rock and roll picking up all of the steel of all of the trains at the illinois central railroad went through. muddy waters had to plug in their acoustic instruments to be heard over the crowds. the music being heard over the railroad that gets picked up by music and mick jagger in england, they try to copy it and copying it, they change it and they bring it back to chicago and record their second record at 2120 south michigan avenue, chess records, sort of bringing the music back to the city. >> and some were more comfortable with the way that got copied and changed and evolved than others. >> well, it's the whole idea. is it appropriation, there was a great line by some jazz musician, i forgot, you can't steal a gift in a way. the guys like muddy waters really liked the rolling

stones, they recognized what the rolling stones were doing was not what pat boone were doing. they weren't making the covers of tootsie fruity like pat boone did. they were doing something interesting and new. when allen wolf went to england the first time, they got the yard birds. if you listen to the rolling stones sing their version of "little red rooster," it's up there with the original versions of it. >> for so many, it's beatles and stones. for you it was beatles and stones as well, always that competition, always that comparison? >> early on the stones manager realized the beatles had filled the niche. they were sort of the good guys. they were wearing the white hats as keith richards said, who is wearing the black hats. the stones could fill that niche. the beatles became love. i heard the rolling stones, it was everything dirty and nasty that i wanted to try out when i was older. so to me, that was the

rollingstones. the rolling stones were like a gang, the outsiders or west side story. the head of the gang was michalek and keith. it wasn't just the music, it was the band and the dirtiness and the nasiness, the infighting was the music. jesus had paul. elvis had the colonel, and the stones had andrew. before they met him, their name was the rollin stones, it was from a muddy waters song. listen, nobody is buying a record from a band that can't spell their name properly. they had six members, made them lose one of their numbers. when i was a kid, i heard somebody describe that they're so ugly, they're attractive. that was going to be the stones and they were kind of the opposite of the beatles. >> i asked andrew this years ago, i said what was the key to the success of the rolling stones and he said they showed up. >> yeah, actually, they literally showed up which there

was a concert early on there was a concert that the band that became the kinks had, they couldn't show up because there was a snowstorm. the stones filled that gig. that became the regular gig which became the crawdaddy club which made them a bar room sensation. what is interesting to me, they didn't know if they should play the first night, there was three people. there is think thing you can take away for a performance for life. what do you do, you play. you don't punish the people who did come for the since of those who didn't come. >> brian jones, another bandmember who was lost for various reasons, andrew was involved in those machinations as well. for you, that must have been difficult to revisit some of that or talk to keith and michalek about that. >> it's interesting. to me, the title of the book is the sun and the moon and the rolling stones. when i first interviewed keith

and told them what year i was born, 1968. he started to laugh. you should be answering my questions. it's always been the sun and the moon and the rolling stones. brian jones died in 1969. i come back from this different perspective which is a kid who grew up with the band in the post-brian jones era. this was brian jones' band, he was the great musician. it was his slide guitar around which they were formed. the stones became successful, he lost control of the band. one of the things i loved so much about the rolling stones is all the things you have with your own friends, all of the problems and feuds they had. they're completely human in that way. they would have a tendency to single a guy out and pick on him until he went insane. for a while, that became brian jones. it's agonizing to read about him. he was such a great musician and his sound is so important in that music. you know he was being driven slowly insane by the fact that he had lost control of the band and became a drug casualty and

the rolling stones that i grew up is built on the remains of this brian jones rolling stones. to me, it's like going back and discovering the antique age. >> so you were already so red in and listened in to the legend that is this band. you start working for rolling stones, you did some reporting beforehand, but you get the assignment. >> right. when i first interviewed at rollingstones, they said, listen, he is going to ask you if you can interview anyone in the world, who would it be? don't tell them the truth. whoever you say you want to interview, you will never interview that person. so about 20 minutes in, you could interview anybody who would it be, i wanted to interview the rolling stones, i said bruce springsteen. he called me up and said how would you like to go on the road with the rolling stones. all of a sudden i'm on a plane. i fly to toronto in the middle of the night. i show up where keith had been busted not that long as well. i came by myself.

i got met by keith richards' sort of personal assistant, let's go. it's midnight. you're on rock and roll time. they work from 12:00 until 9:00 a.m. they took me to a great school in the suburbs. you wonder what is going on at your grade school in the middle of the night in summer, the stones are rehearsing there. you could hear the "brown sugar" rift going through the school. in the grade school gym, a place of torture for many of us, the rolling stones had taken it over. i watched them for two weeks play through their entire catalog putting together their show. that was probably the decision to be a reporter and not to go to law school like my parents wanted was sort of justified by basically eeks of me getting the only audience for the rolling stones. >> the best performance or concert experience you ever had? >> the best is before they went on that tour, the voodoo lounge tour, they did a pop-up show in

toronto to play before a live audience. keith said the reason we keep playing, it doesn't exist until we have it in front of a live audience. people say to me, well, you know, i saw the rolling stones at the meadowlands and they were pretty good, the rolling stones exist at a bar at 3:00 in the morning where everyone is drunk and keith richards has found the groove. i got to see them in that environment in toronto and to me, you realize what they are which is the greatest bar band in the history of the world. >> you became closer or talked much more with keith than you did with mick. you write about mick and our candid in your estimation of what his successes and fractures are. what was it about keith richards that sort of turned on that light for you? >> the thing that is great about the stones. it's the i didn't think and the yang of keith and mick.

mick is kind of cold and distant. i worked with him later. i was one of the creators of vinyl. he doesn't want to let you know who he is. he sort of remains mysterious and removed like prince or bob dylan. he has that incredible ability. keith puts you at ease. he is a guy who seems to have found out how to live in the world and how to be comfortable in the world and comfortable about his own skin. i always say, listen, there is a keith richards like how-to book guide to life like for frank sinatra. there is not one for mick jagger, he is a mystery. >> you think you got gold and you go back and listen to it or look at the transcript and you realize he didn't say very much about anything and keith was the exact opposite? >> when i first went up there to interview mick, i'm getting scoops left and right, he is saying stuff he never said before. when you get tapes back, like interviewing a pro athlete after the game, there is

nothing here. you think you have a huge fish, you got a tire. this is a disaster, he mumbles, you can't understand him. he would start laughing for no reason as he starts realizing how ridiculous his life is. you get those transcripts back, it's absolutely brilliant. those two guys together are the rolling stones. >> mick's folks ripped you after the first article. >> i got a funny phone call with a guy i became friends with, he had gone through and counted. you mentioned keith richards 78 times but mick jagger 32 times. this story is called on the road with the rolling stones. that's not correct. love ld be called i keith richards and want to have his baby. >> you acknowledge that later. >> do i want to have his baby? >> so keith did say something to you that i think that stuck

with you and really resonated. that is with respect to charlie watts. charlie seemed to like you. what was it about that that made charlie, because i don't think he necessarily liked or let a lot people in like mick did. what was it about the interaction with charlie watts? >> i did get this crazy access you don't get anymore to them in those years. i used to drive back to the holt with charlie watts. he was really into chicago and jazz, stuff i'm interested in. we would have these conversations. about the civil war and american history and when i interviewed keith, he said on tape, because i saved the tape, that and my tape of marlon brando calling at 3:00 in the morning, my two prized possessions. i'm not going to do the accent, but it's the whole thing, charlie really likes you. you get the gold medal for that. charlie doesn't like many people. after that it was like i'm in. as the little brother always in bed listening to the party down stairs but not being able to leave early, you hang out with

people older and cooler than you and get a sense you belong, all of those skills came into play when i was hanging out with the stones. >> when you experience something like that, is there a moment when you come down and sort of appreciate everything that has happened and say, my gosh -- >> two years later i was walking through new york city i thought what the hell, i can't believe that. at the time i was so focused on, i was young. it was a cover story for "rolling stone." i also really idolized a lot of the "rolling stone" writers and i knew that the history of the magazine, i wanted to do a good job. i was trying to act not like a fan, but a professional. i didn't let myself reflect on the amazing experience i was having until much later. that's what this book is to some extent. >> through your lens. >> the idea that i had this experience, i have a 12-year-old son. i was driving with him listening to his music. it suddenly occurred to me, this music sucks.

that's honestly what i thought. i thought wait a second. this is probably because i'm old. i'm an old guy. let me do some research and see if i'm write. i realized it does kind of suck. that's how i felt about it. the way we felt about rock and roll when i was a kid, the idea was you would wait for the next record the way people wait for the new iphone. you think if it was the right record with the right collection of songs, you had a chance to have a pretty good summer. the right record could change your life. at some point, the right energy, a great band or song, but a movement that was heading somewhere ended and it died. to me personally, i felt like it died when kurt cobain died. i was working at "rolling stone." i felt like the air was coming out of a balloon. rock and roll, it kind of died and nobody has stepped back and told the whole story. i'm not old enough to have been with them in 1963 or 1966, but my age is kind of advantage to step back and see the whole big

picture. it's like there is a famous quote, you have to wait until evening to see how glorious the day has been. i felt like that was my perspective and that was my goal with the book was to tell the story of rock and roll through the rolling stones. >> what is next for the stones? >> people ask me how long will the stones keep playing? i say, well, what will happen, they'll be on stage somewhere and somebody will say, hey, guys, you died three years ago. i think they're just going to keep going and going and going. that's what they do and john lennon famously said, they got to the end of the road on the road and that was like in the late 1960's and keith richards said will is no end to the road. >> the book is the sun and the moon and the rolling stones. rich cohen, so good to see you again. >> thanks a lot, really fun, thank you.

charlie: president obama held a town hall meeting in washington this evening on race relations and policing. he fielded questions from law enforcement and community leaders to promote greater understanding. this evening, we look back at parts of a conversation i had with brian stevenson about race and justice in august of last year. brian stevenson is the founding executive director of the equal justice initiative. tell me what it is that you think is the most important question for this country as it

considers race and justice? brian: race and justice, how are we going to recover from our legacy of racial inequality, this history of racial injustice that has infected all of us, that has compromised all of our abilities to see one another fairly. i think that's really the question that we have never taken on. we have never really tried to confront the legacy of slavery. i actually think we need to talk about slavery. people kind of look at me hard when i say that. i don't think we have ever dealt with that legacy. slavery was something that was really horrific in this country because it wasn't -- the great evil of slavery wasn't servitude or forced labor, it was the narrative of racial difference we created, the ideology of white supremacy. that consciousness, that narrative was never addressed by the 13th amendment. that's why i argue that slavery didn't end, it evolved.

charlie: and it exists in our minds because of what we think about questions of race and color? bryan: yes, i think there is a presumption of dangerousness and guilt that gets assigned to black and brown people, particularly black and brown boys that we have never freed ourselves from. it's sustained and reinforced. we lerched people in the first half of the 20th century because of the presumption of dangerousness and guilt. we segregated people and ourselves and we still do. now on the streets when people see young men of color, there is this presumption that they are dangerous or guilty. in the criminal courtroom, you see this all the time. we're not going to make progress until we free ourselves. we need truth and reconciliation in america. we haven't had that. we should reflect on the damage that was done. i hear people talk about the movement, it sounds like a three-day carnival. on day one, rosa parks didn't

give up her seat on the bus. dr. king marched on washington and day three we changed the laws and everyone gets to celebrate. charlie: one year has passed since six world pours reaches a deal with iran. secretary of state john kerry said iran had lived up to its expectations while acknowledging that challenges remain. tehran has launched a series of missile tests in recent months and supporting president asaad in syria. iran has complained it has yet to see economic relief that was offered as part of the accord. joining me is david sanger from the "new york times," and ray tacky of the council on foreign relations, i am pleased to have them here on this program. we begin with david who had a front page story on the "new york times" today about a year later, a mixed record for the iran accord, solid progress on

core nuclear pro villages but little more. let's begin to talk about the nuclear provisions. david: within the four corners of the agreement in which iran agreed to dismantle a number of its centrifuges and keep some running, agreeing to ship out 98% of its fuel, in which it agreed to neutralize the plutonium reactor, they have done everything that they said they would do. if you think back a year ago, you had members of congress, particularly opponents of the deal and prime minister siaedge@bloomberg.net -- benjamin netanyahu of israel saying they wouldn't comply with them, but they have complied with all of them. now the problem is outside that range of the deal, they took advantage of some wording they got negotiated in to change u.n. resolutions so that they

are now conducting these missile tests and nobody believes the u.n. is going to go in and step in their way because the u.n. resolution only calls upon them to show restraint. it doesn't prohibit them. they are continuing support of hezbollah and of course of the syrian president, they were doing that before and doing that more intensely now. charlie: somehow there was the belief, not expressed, but the belief that somehow there may be some moderation. is the united states doing anything to moderate their behavior? >> charlie, i think about the nuclear deal in three different boxes, the nonproliferation box, the regional box and the iran domestic box. as david alluded to earlier, it's been a success in the nonproliferation box. in both the geopolitical box and the iran domestic box, it's been more of a disappointmentment many of iran's neighbors in the region, particularly saudi arabia, israel, the smaller gulf

countries say the behavior hasn't changed at all and they have more resources to double down on groups like hezbollah and shiad myly thats. we saw elections last february in iran which very slightly changed the composition of the iranian parliament to slightly more moderate actors. the president really is on his heels, the hard line forces in iran are still very much entrenched. i think that hope that the obama administration had that this nuclear deal could moderate iran's regional practices or domestic practices hasn't been borne out yet. charlie: david, was the deal worth it? david: charlie, within the confines of what they were trying to attempt, i think it was worth it because it has put off what i think was a fairly imminent confrontation. i don't think that the israelis were bluffing when they said at some moment they would probably have to go off and take military action.

they came up to the edge of it, we now know, two or three times during the obama administration. the fact that no one is out there right now talking about an imminent conflict is good. on the other hand, as ray points out, this deal has got time limits in it and those time limits are shorter than what the administration wanted. charlie: ray, in terms of the missile development that is taking place and changing the language at the united nations, what are they developing and how dangerous is it? ray: iran is developing long range missiles, the purpose of those missiles is to carry unconventional payload which is nuclear arms in some respects. this has always been an aspect of this deal that is curious. a nuclear program produces weapons, but also produces a means of delivering those weapons. this agreement essentially excluded means of delivery from its consideration, which was always very unusual. and iran also relies on missile

for defensive purposes as well and the concern is that the ballistic missiles that they're developing, the intercontinental missiles for which there is no legitimate defense purpose other than carrying an unconventional payload. charlie: 10 years from now when this has a sunset clause, what will be the test? in other words, i'm asking, you can't really say this deal has worked or not worked until 10 years out. david: that's right, charlie. there are some early interesting markers. the one-year niffs, we are doing a first assessment and we've discussed that first pass working within the nuclear side but not in many of the other areas. i think the next test is going to be what happens within iran if they don't see more of the economic benefits that they expected. now, i think they overexpected the economic benefits. you hear a lot of people say that there would be $150 billion of their assets

unfrozen. the frezzri department believes it's about $50 billion. when you ask the question of u.s. officials, how much of those funds have actually been transferred back to iran or made use by iran outside of the country, they won't answer and they won't answer, charlie, because the number is so low that they're afraid that it's going to worsen the politics of this for their president and for the foreign minister who negotiated the deal. so you have seen the secretary of state john kerry in the odd position of going out urging european bankers to do more to open up their relationships with iran because he knows that if the basis of support for this deal erodes in the next year or two in iran, then the whole thing could fall apart much more quickly than the schedule that we have discussed. that will be the next marker and then the third marker is what do you do if the irgc and

the next supreme leaders say at year eight and 15, it's full speed ahead. we're just going by the letter of the law here and build a full nuclear program. at that point you could be back where we were last year, that's a ways away. charlie: i assume they said that the president has often said, reinstitute sanctionses which is much harder to do the second time around. david: and the rest of the world has moved away from the sanctionses very quickly. the only impediment to investment in iran right now as been fear of u.s. continued sanctionses against a company or bank that broke the rules and the iranians own antiquated banking system and antiquated economy that has made many companies fear the risk of going into iran now even after a deal. charlie: what would have to happen to change iranian behavior?

>> i'm skeptical that iran's fundamental behavior will really change until there's a different supreme leader. current supreme leader is 77 years old. he reallyd argue fears rapprochement with the states more than he fears continued contained confrontation and i have to say not as perhaps optimistic as david and ray, that the nuclear deal will reach its 10th year, because i think one of the fundamental sources of contention about the deal is whether additional sanctions wouldhe united states constitute a violation of the deal. and the obama administration has reluctant to react against iran's missile tests, regional provocations, because they don't want to jeopardize their main foreign policy legacy but i could easily see a scenario whereby a year from now, two does from now, iran

something provocative in the region -- whether that's go whether it'srces, human rights abuses at home, missile testing, acts against israel, and the next u.s. congress reacts by passing sanctions against iran and leader reacts by saying you just violated your saidf the deal because we any additional sanctions are an heegation of the deal and friday united states violates willnd of the deal, iran reconstitute nuclear activity so i could easily see a scenario whereby two years from now the deal starts to unravel and we esculatory situation and i would argue that iran's hard liners since the hostage of 1979 have constantly these externalg crises for internal political expediency. point on theke the important point kenny made.

during last year when secretary discussing and selling this agreement to the hill and the public at large, he promised, as the administration did, that united states would remain vigilant on issues of rights and even introduce sanctions against iran obligationsed its in terms of terrorism, in terms of human rights and other international conventions so the sanctioning iran for its behavior, hasgn been something that the administration conceded to. as we speak, there are 35 pieces on the hill that are designed to sanction iran. most importantly, one of them introduced today by senator bill innd bipartisan the senate that essentially sanctions iran's revolutionary andds for their terrorism regional aggression. so this idea of introducing deal with other aspects of iran's behavior is something the administration itself has pledged. i agree, they haven't followed

see otherut i can congresses, other administrations, other presidents actually following impose and trying to some coercive pressure against iran as it becomes much more region and asthe mentioned, use of its own home.ns at >> thank you. we'll be right back. stay with us. ♪

charlie: in 1984, dade county, florida, was the murder capital of the united states. a large part of the violence was thectly related to escalating drug war and pablo escobar's mettine cartel. bringing down the corruption was federal agent mozur. his five years spent undercover the subject of a new film called "the infiltrator." the trailer. >> this is what i do, i'm an undercover narcotics agent. with murderers and bait lie, i lie my ass off. >> washington wants the biggest in history, pablo escobar, distributor, .oberto elcano

>> i think we have been doing this backwards. drugse been following the to get to the bad guy. what if we chase the money? to find undercover identities. i'd be 77 years old. >> that's about right. bob porsella, welcome to a crime. >> let's do this. >> welcome to the united states. i need a face-to-face with your boss. >> it was an audition. part. got the >> so, what can you do for me? my present for you tonight. >> i'm engaged. >> so what? me?re you kidding cathy ertz,e wife, bob mazure, i wish you many

happy years. have you ever had your palm read? destiny has marked you. >> you know who's the biggest launderer in the u.s.? >> i thought it was me. willwill kill you and i make you die for days. >> i do not do business under threat. are not in a position to .ictate to pablo >> one wrong move and we're dead. >> my business there is no loyalty. it never ends well. >> are you in danger of pablo escobar? themave a chance to take all down. charlie: joining me is the star

andhe film, bryan cranston the director and the man mozur., robert what is it, sir, about you and businesses? >> i just want to follow the written word and when i received this script written by mother, ellen compelling.was so not just this fantastic plot which is true and brought down theseventh largest bank in world at the time, but also how this man reconciles living that dirty life during the day and then going home and being the husband and the father, helping kids with homework and taking out the trash and doing fatherly, mundane chores. how does he deal with that? charlie: how do you do it? >> i was lucky. i was very fortune. fortunate. i was trained to do this type of

work. i was trained through an undercover school with former undercover agents who shared me,r experience with psychologists were involved. thei had leadership in agency putting together a front, -- she theharmarajan really pulled together. charlie: what's the cardinal rule for an undercover agent? >> the psychologists tell me, they're looking for people who have a black-and-white, not a gray area for interpretation. switch and off switch. because if you rationalize right from wrong, this long journey of years of a double life can go slippery slope. charlie: a sense of right and wrong? rationalization area where you can cause yourself to slip and become a stockholm syndrome and find yourself gravitating toward

guys.d charlie: did you find people within the story that you had admiration for? wouldn't say admiration but when you deal with someone on multiple levels, because i got them not just as a bad guy, but also as a father, as a businessman. not everyone is bad to the core. know all those multiple levels and ultimately ofe to the the conclusion this where people get arrested, i think you tend to recognize that there are innocent people willn their family who suffer, as well. so in that regard, i had sympathy for them. find thehow do you property? is it out there in the public space? that was, ioperty think, debated over and people it for a longfor time. tom cruise, brad pitt. cuban optioned it and they developed it unsuccessfully and with what happy

occurred. charlie: did you have a veto over the project? came back to me for a very short period of time. from n.y.u.,iend stakhovsky, found the book shelf and said this is a movie we have to make and i've had a fascination and love for and upon reading it, i agree. i felt it was a story that needed to be told. charlie: this guy was in your film, "lincoln lawyer." >> he was. fornd you still hired me this film. was your first and only choice. >> yeah, we talked about it. like being frank moo -- in my interviews. driving how wes finance movies today and bryan didn't have bad"

enough international value. we sat down and i went to him with himember sitting off of times square after a business meeting we had and i hell or high water, i want to make this work and in that wildfire itn, the bad." on of "breaking charlie: you thought he was the right man, because? >> what i've learned about the cornerstone of acting i think is the trust between the director and the actor and what i saw bryan, the little work he did -- the gravitas in "lincoln he's a tremendous leader. as moral and ethical compas an individual is so rare, especially in hollywood. such a special human being and when you have all of those and we hads a person this bond of trust and

friendship and he's a producer, ans a filmmaker, he's artist, he's an actor. what you have someone with all acting,alities and the i knew you had to invest in the bryancompass of bob and would evoke that for the audience. charlie: beyond the drugs and you sayg the money, it's a film about friendship and betrayal. is.t to an extent. if bob mazure is doing his job he is garnering the trust from the cartel or whomever he's infiltrating. getting them to trust him in that, there's a lot of social interaction. dine with them and socialize with them and drink with them and party with them andget to know their wives their families. and intellectually, i think you what you're doing. it's his job. this is what i'm sworn to do. do fore right thing to

society, to take down a known criminal. though, emotionally, do we -- are we always connected to our bodies? bodies, our hearts, in other words, saying, i like this like his wife, his kids are nice -- and how do you reconcile those two? so if bob is doing his job 2 1/2 at the end of the year operation, he has to, then, not who heelf, to be says he is. friend,has to have his his acquaintance, arrested and then do the best he can to send that person to prison. what other job requires you to such a thing? so i think it's -- i think it's on that element, and on the element of the duality being thed to live family man and being this crooked money launderer. charlie: your partner is played by john leg zamia.

is probably the undercover agent that walked the earth. >> you're undercover. coke,t to do a line of anything to stay alive, man. >> bob, i know these people, man. play with them. you got to drink with them, you got to -- with them. get their way you trust. >> hey, i'm alive, aren't i? >> oh, my god, you're a piece of work, bob. you're a -- piece of work. why are you doing this, bob? why are you bothering? i heard about the retirement they offered you. the kid,he wife and you guys could be playing on a yacht. whenver white people do they retire. >> why are you doing it? >> because i love it. my drug of choice. nobody does it better than me. >> he can walk in a room. need a lot of preparation.

as bryan says, i'm o.c.d. constantly dot the i's but amir room and take it over with his aura. he doesn't need a bunch of documentation. believable guy. leguizamo. john he's that guy, too. he has such a quick wit and is charming and can win over spontaneity and brevity, it's wonderful. >> your mother wrote this? [laughter] a laugh.ners no question about it. charlie: tell me about your mother? she always dreamed of being a writer but that's not always realistic for's people. when she left law behind, she creative screenwriter, won a ton of international awards and when we were interviewing people for the job,

anyone with all of the qualities we needed to evoke this screenplay and in the donnie brasco and joe piskone, we knew we were treading on familiar territory. think the female perspective, the education, the law being a mother and family person, all of those elements brought a unique perspective to the material so when we wanted to hire her, politically, i said we're never going to get her approved. fortunately, our producer was amazing in recognizing my mom was the best writer for the job got her hired. it was a blessing. charlie: a clip with you and your partner. here it is. >> disrespectful. this, falconi,at italianest sounding name ever. come on. the math, i'd be 77 years

old. >> that's about right. come on. are you even looking? >> yeah, yeah, i'm looking. go.ere we bob porsella, dates are perfect. >> what about this one? dominguez. amelia dominguez. sexy.t's >> who cares if it's sexy? >> i care. it's my name. a sexy name.ave >> we stole that scene. charlie: from? was in the script but it was a very difficult shoot and it was on the chopping block and we were not going to be able to get to it and brad other anded at each said we have to get this scene so on a weekend when we weren't let's get theid cameras, get a van. we had cooperation with some -- hair and we just went out, no permits, and found

and we just said, unload quietly, pretending we're and weg a gravesite just -- come on, come on, come on! and there was a maintenance in and we were this close to being booted out on!we were like, come charlie: anything they didn't get that you wanted them to life?e because it's your >> well, it's such a challenge for them to be able to put 384 pages in. but the bank aspect of it has always intrigued me and the international banking communities involved and i think that, in its shell, the essence of it. of morehe quid pro quo deposits and i'll scratch your back and i'll do what it is that is want to do which unfortunately something that -- did you learn about the war on drugs? it sounds good. but it's incredible. tos like saying we're going

stop prostitution, we're going it'sop -- i don't think ever able to be stopped but you can't let that enormity stop you duty as arming your officer or as a citizen and the nobility bob anded was to do just that despite personal threats and danger, he persevered and became most effective operation of its day. was like 85 arrests made on that day. and -- a live: is there contract on your life? >> i wish i knew there was a list.to check that but i don't think that there is. make some erasures. >> it's a totally different me.rience for i know these people and i lived with these things so i have a different perspective of it than

someone who gets the opportunity play it for a while. i miss -- i've told this to a bunch of in this was heroin getting information nobody else could get. to have four or five conversations that led to the seizure of more than a ton of cocaine in downtown manhattan in a person who's part of the public service that wants to be part of making a difference, to me, the energy from that, the high i would get from that, was really mesmerizing and i now recognize that i -- i came to this conclusion, i'm not saying it's a good one. that i had climbed through this world intohe real the underworld at a level that i thought no other undercover get so i wanted to use 24/7, every second i could, to get as much information i could because i knew the portal in hindsight i probably took a few more risks

in the last couple of months maybe earlier on i may not have because i was chasing that high. up in theow far banks' executives did the criminality go? >> to the board. >> i dealt with board members we that admitted to the fact that they knew it was drug money and they had a plan to handle it. i think they were interested in handling money, seeking secrecy so it didn'tnts matter if it came from pilfering or people treasuries or drug trafficking -- any of those things. it. had a plan to handle i wish i could say they're the only bank that's done that but i can't. changed?has it >> there's $400 billion a year nationsg to the united generated from the illegal sale drugs. charlie: $400 billion. >> and just under two trillion of illegalityypes so that money seeking secrecy

laundering services every year and gets a lot of good people to do bad things. charlie: that kind of money will always do that, won't it? >> i think so. charlie: what's next for you, sir? >> two trillion? >> i can see why we wanted to make the movie. we thought bob's story was like picturedent in a big nobody really knew of so the awareness of telling the story, if you're left with something, you'll do your due diligence and creating awareness hopefully can some change. charlie: at the end, pablo wasbar got his but how good he? what was his reputation within s?e cartel >> he got his four or five years later so -- and i was dealing people who reported to him. cartel's violence during this time frame was extreme. the mexican cartels have

certainly shown that they're quite capable of doing -- >> doing -- charlie: did that happen because the cartels in colombia were down in part? >> there was actually, at least my understanding was there was an actual business plan change by the cartel in colombia and the came about because of re-enactment of the extradition capabilities by the u.s. decided sell wholesale to the mexican cartels and let them itthe dirty work of bringing into north america so it was really more of a business plan than blocking them from anything else. >> i think what's most of this is about all the fact that our government shut bob down. into peelingper back the layers of the onion, he realized how rotten things were our own government and the corruption. a character you like to play, a complex character, a character on the edge, a character who makes his own sense of danger. >> or finds himself in the

middle of danger. but duty-bound, a cause to fight for. charlie: conflicted. >> conflicted. honest it's a more amalgam of personalities that a more sophisticated audience expects and demands to see and mes certainly what moves when i read a novel or read a story about someone who's not just all good but fighting, struggling to keep the goodness whether that's president johnson or dalton or bobor whomever, mazure. charlie: thank you for coming. "the infiltrator" opens july 13. ♪

>> on the show tonight, donald trump's new running mate and the donald trump movement gets trumped. world is stunned and grieving again after a night of horrific violence in the french nyse on -- nice. last night in france, a just endedisplay had when at least 84 people were killed and more than 200 injured that plowed into a crowd celebrating bastille day. the attacker was identified as a 31-year-old delivery truck driver from tunisia. no