john: i am john heilemann. mark: i am mark halperin. with all due respect to last night's big entrance, tonight is going to be even more huge. ♪ [cheers] ♪ welcome to cleveland and day two of the republican national convention. the only thing the political world is talking about now, melania trump's speeds from last

night at the arena behind me. bloomberg politics world headquarters. if you missed all the hubbub about melania trump's well done but flawed address, let's catch you up. >> millennia, speech, plagiarism. big debut, home run. >> that was a home run. >> this is supposed to be a home run. >> there does seem to be an ever on the field. >> twitter says she copied michelle obama. >> you work hard for what you work like. >> you work hard for what you want to work like. she said your word is your bond. she said your word is your bond. >> 93% of the speech is completely different from michelle obama's speech. >> mike davis says probably. >> paul matt forte sticks to his own script. >> any other topic, i don't want to keep going. >> that he blames clinton. >> the clinton camp is the first to get it out. clinton says it is not true.

sean spicer says michelle obama did it as well. did she plagiarize? >> she said something similar. did mrs. up on a plagiarize? i would never say that. ark: there has now been chorus of finger-pointing from within and around the campaign. the new york times citing unnamed sources, republican speech shkreli drafted an early version of the text which melania trump changed among other fallouts. there has been long-running factions within trump world and corey lewandowski, making perhaps his most negative critique of trump's operation since he left the campaign. he went on cnn where he is a paid contributor and took aim at the man who replaced at the trump of the campaign, paul manafort. >> someone has reviewed what melania trump was going to say.

whether they are held responsible if the book starts at the top for the first time she put the papers on, responsible -- she needs to take a deep look inside and make sure there is up check and balance for every speech going forward. waiver signed off of the final signoff to allow this to go forward made a tumble. >> should paul manafort be held accountable? >> yes. he was the last person that saw this and saw it happen and brought this on the candidate's weiss, i think he would resign. -- wife, i think he would resign. spoken evenhas not great including twitter. no one has been fired. he is not happy with the situation. paul manafort and most of the nopaign is saying, there was plagiarism, nothing to see here, move on. where do we stand? john: let's start with what

happened. with all of the recordings we have available to us, including the washington post, matthew scully and his partner, who are famous publican speechwriters, written many drafts for many sent a draft to the campaign. and then they claim, according to the reports, something happened. we don't know what happened. finger-pointing, various aids have been accused. they have been exonerated. some people think melania her trump herself, they say she wrote the speech herself. we don't know this, but we have covered a lot of presidential candidates where a lot of bad speeches had this storyline of some really great speech lighter -- speechwriter wrote this, and somehow in the process, it get mixed up. we have never seen anything like this, where it looks like plagiarism. it is a mistake, it could be. it could be greater plagiarism. either way, it is bad. somebody failed melania

trump, whether she wrote it or not, the campaign said she did not. and of course she could not. they let her down. someone should have caught this. hedonald trump, presumably only knows who was involved. he has not done anything to get rid of them. maybe it is someone he does not want to fire for whatever reason. as has a lot of publicans back to being concerned about the confidence of the campaign. and donald trump is due to be nominated, they have done nothing to turn the page on a narrative which is killing them. john: it is retroactively ruining everything about yesterday. mark: including the speech. john: i will say, however she got the draft into final form, and a real presidential campaign professionally, and i talked to many strategists who said the same thing, we have software that does this.

every college professor in the country, high school professors runs it in papers through software to determine -- to determine if there is plagiarism. this could have been done with minimal betting. here, andot happen that goes to this question else, does the trump campaign, does it have actual wherewithal consequences? this is a real-world consequence right here. mark: corey lewandowski chooses to speak out against paul manafort that way. we cannot find any transportations from what he said, coming close to the level of controversy. they have been rivals, and within the campaign, clearly they will be people who are wondering, how did this happen, and what are the consequences of making such an ever? john: for sure. let's go on to the mixed topic. , she may not be the only one who is entangled in this particular flat.

--nne petrov -- yvonn ivanka trump and other children have been involved in high-level positions. for the next three nights, his kids will speak turning with tiffany and donald junior tonight in an interview with good morning america, ivanka have these harsh words for public and leaders -- republican leaders. >> i went to ask about the convention, mitt romney, john mccain not attending. what do you think it is about your father that makes such a polarizing figure? >> my father is not violent. we went through a very tough primary. he emerged from that the winner, but there were ruffled feathers along the way. >> was that hurtful to hear about, major figures in the party would not -- choice.hat is their

if they don't want to be part of the narrative, if they don't want to be part of the future -- john: the conventional wisdom spattered by many the past few months, trump's children are his greatest political asset. after a lot of you'-- melania trump's ruined this, and dirt this, -- and after this, do you think the children can get him back on track? mark: tiffany is a higher profile than the other children. donald junior has been a great political asset for his father. they are heavily involved in the campaign. they have been a close-knit team. the model for this is the business, where the four of them have worked closely together in real new real estate projects. i think all of them would be as nervous as they could be working out, but it will produce speeches that turned the page. was clear, hefort

wants this to be about showing sides of donald trump people don't know about. i think all three are in a position to do that. john: you said two different things. one is that they do help, the other they were in a position to. i was declining to make predictions after last night, but i'm with you on the first one. that is all he got. manafort,for paul show sides of donald trump. this family is in a better position than anyone. melania trump was in a better position last night, but probably not her own fault -- mark: she will not be for members through the filter -- john: now that standard is even higher. everyone will focus on tiffany and donald junior. i don't know whether they will make the bar tonight, turn the page, whether they will turn and show us something about donald trump. they have a chance to. mark: until donald trump speaks

out, it will be hard for anybody. john: this story lingers. mark: in addition to the children, there is a fresh batch of speakers for the program tonight, along with the nomination of donald trump. on the list of acres, fighting dana white. founder senate seat -- senate majority leader mitch mcconnell, house speaker all right and former rival ben carson. -- paul ryan and former rival ben carson. we asked chris christie what he thought about republicans that they, they still would not back their party's soon-to-be nominee. chris christie: we all signed a pledge. i did not want to cite it. -- sign it, but i don't have to prove i am a loyal member of the party. national chairman wanted us to sign it, so we did. anybody who signed that pledge and was not here is breaking their word to the people of our party and the american people,

and that is just wrong. so besides trumps family, who is up tonight that can turn the page to have night two be more successful than night one? john: you and i will agree that the person who is the best to do this will be mitch mcconnell, a rhetorical giant, great performer, loves donald trump, has no reservations. so probably not mcconnell or paul ryan. the best is chris christie. he has a bad history, gave a terrible speech in 2012 reluctant -- republican convention. he apparently feels well about donald trump. he could set off ironworks. mark: if christie gives a great speech about trump, it could help. the problem is, he is spent a lot of the week talking about how disappointed he is he was not put on the ticket, and i think it will hurt a little bit. is somey need tonight

star power to change things. the combination of chris christie, donald junior could have the potential to get people to focus on two things, primarily talking about different sides of trump and the difference between trump and clinton. kristi believes he can do that as well as anybody in the party. john: the problem with the filter is so many different people that would rip chris christie off in a dramatic way. now there is focus on the children because of what happened last night. christie will have to have a tight panic home run to really -- everyone will be looking at the two trump kids. mark: he came into the convention in tampa, and people criticize it was too much about romney. -- i mean christie. he bristled and complained, but he prepared a lot for that. fair or not fair, it was not a success. let's see if going on he is

prepared tonight, whether he thought through how to make a speech visitation that does what it needs to. john: when we come back, like murphy, the great, the one and only mike murphy. superked to jeb bush's pac. ♪

♪ john: welcome back. we are joined by mike murphy, longtime critic of donald trump's campaign and the former master mind of the super pac that supported jeb bush not to much great effect. [speaking simultaneously]

here is the question. if you were managing the campaign of someone who was the republican nominee, and their spouse was about to speak, would you have vetted the speech? mike: there is a whole standard routine of how speech writing works. conventions are by execution and planning, themed on a narrative to get voters on the days. that thisge failure happened. it has been exacerbated the fact trump, when they mess up, they did in. i never let steam out and say that mistake was made. --e is the new speech writer there are things you do to change the channel of which they are incapable. john: i am not asking for paul manafort to resign, but in a general manner, is this the resign -- is this something you should again in general fall on

your sword is that was the case? mike: somebody should own it. that is are you change the channel. you get very few paintbrushes. trumps speech is one. debates are another. polling, he is behind, you can debate how much. you have got to have word motion, and stuff like this screws it up. mark: you are no fan of trump, some some viewers may think everything you say is -- you know. some republicans will say all the coverage will be dominated by this liberal media bias. his attention being paid to this -- day, the inclusion everything their will yes, but the media pounce on mistakes and the big vacuum like this. that is the rule of gravity regardless of how i feel about trump. when you look at the last 24 hours, step one was talking about john kasich, maybe change channel to something better.

then you can argue about the rollcall. they had a problem there, but more story for trouble, and then you go to the speechwriting team of xerox and konica. so if you are tripping, the press will shun you. mark: i was amazed. i thought trump would fire someone. or go on fox news were due a tweet that says, you know, the clintons were meeting at an airport, or something. something to death but they left the vacuum in place all day. got what you have feels like barking seals needing to be fed. that is the choice, and they are being eaten rather than feeding. john: so we just had the discussion, two kids, a couple of kids coming. is there anything that can fix this before trump's speech on

thursday? there are tactical things to do to relieve pressure, but the next thing is donald trump talking to the country. we have a new and improved donald trump that will connect voters outside the republican base? if this is the primary never ends convention, that does not help him go forward. if they can get this speech out of the way, if they talk about it, they don't have to -- there was no malice. it is not like they copied -- it was sloppiest staff work. she spoke from the heart. she was not lying. so shoot the speechwriter, praise the speech, move on. they seem incapable. mark: roger stone. mike: a friend of mine. mark: i have seen him around here in town. .e was at the campaign is the value added for the truck campaign? -- trump campaign? mike: he is a good solvent. if he can tap that down a little

bit and not be a lightning bolt for attention, he has got to stoke the run of an inferior campaign. whether or not internal dynamics blah blah,- blah he adds value. he is a seasoned consultant that can get out of the novelty acting, a very smart guy. john: mike murphy will stay here with us. we will not let you leave. we will continue this conversation. ♪

♪

back here in cleveland, across from the arena where the second life -- second night of the convention is getting underway. we have mike murphy, republican strategist of a lot of campaigns. risinginvolved with the super pac with donald trump -- jeb bush. -- insidernutes away interviews. [speaking simultaneously] web ore are on face whatever the kids are into. mark: roger ailes may lead. you know him. if roger ailes left fox news channel, does that change his role in republican politics? mike: it is his creation. he is the guy that envisioned .omething that was a typical he trained a staff he has recruited. it will continue, but without the spark genius, i don't think

it will be the same. mark: so you have got anchors like o'reilly and sean who get a lot of interviews -- fox and friends. that will continue in the short-term, but maybe dissipate over time? estate,ey have the real but they also have the genius vision. i like him. i feel bad when he is going through. it will take an equally strong person to keep that thing moving, or they turn to the ball. it is a very big job. we are not out of the convention yet. we talk about the general election and what may happen. kent donald trump when this election voter mike: he could, but i don't see how. i cannot rule it out, but white women are the fulcrum vote more than any other. unless more come his way, and he has engineering them to offend them every day. they are gaining no ground. i look at strategy and execution , i think he could, but how, and

in the evidence he would -- mark: given all his demographic deficits, how is he so close in the battleground? mike: the polls are in the low 40's. even cbs is 40-40. that is the country doing the polling equivalent of projectile vomiting. both of them are desperate. so the key thing i'm looking at is demographics of the vote three 31 and 50. 41 and 50.ke -- it looks like her world. the loss of gravity -- laws of gravity are favoring her. unless he can get more white women business and latinos and minorities. mark: how has the past seem to you? mike: i have a theory, based on pattern recognition. i think the staff buffaloed trump a little bit, because they were worried about the floor, which shows the nominee does not

just. the floor is automatic. there are 800 900 christian wouldvative delegates rather have ted cruz, so finding someone like mike pence was good. so he is a good governor, but does he know anything to win a general election and give us anything we don't have? no. it is not a loss but not again. -- a gain. the trump bp list was small. change trumpver perception? they don't do much to begin with. it does no harm, but i don't see any lightning bolt. palin? y not fail -- college-educated white women business, christian, conservative. mike: she can't deliver that vote anymore. i don't think she would have

then. mark: what about the white vote? mike: the seals. mark: mr. murphy, good to see you. do you like cleveland? mike: i am from detroit. this is almost the same. mark: just as we go to break, talk about one thing you don't know the answer to about what is going to take place between now and thursday you wish you did? mike: thursday? or is a 50-50 thing, will trump struggle through partially prepared remarks and give a more impressive performance than we expect, or will -- we know he is chained away from the phone, not calling and reacting to this melania trump -- .

.

john: our next guest tonight is

to guests. republican national committee man, and the man on the podium last night with his wife, rachel, speaking well, i thought. you did a nice job. did you ever contemplate starting four score and seven years ago? going with one of the classics? thought someone might catch me if i pulled any language out of someone else's text. night, my fun last wife and i. we wrote the speech ourselves and had fun with it. john: were you nervous and how much guidance to do get? guest: they trump campaign gave us some parameters. it was security and safety night, but they said take it where you want to go. they had no critiques or changes. they let us do what we wanted to

put together and we had great fun. john: people in our business talk to feel like what happened last night >> the first day. the first they had problems, she find -- she kind of fixed it and then find out it was overstated. think it is overstated. i think we will come out of this convention more united. i think the staff did her a disservice. i don't know who wrote the speech, but they ought to be gone by now and that is. make a mistake, you move on. donald trump has this thing going on the right path. he has mike pence working with him and we have republicans coming to cleveland. we want to elect a republican president because we cannot stay on this barack obama-hillary clinton path, killing the country. trump'se is donald wife. she delivered a nice speech.

sadly, portions were lifted, but she's not the candidate and barack obama has had his own problems in the past with listing fortunes -- lifting portions of deval patrick's speeches. joe biden has had his problems. speechwriters, both republicans and democrats have had issues. but nobody can ever say as he goes on page unscripted has ever pulled anything from anybody because he is unconventional. get over thisto and we have to talk about issues that truly matter. this is about security. it's about the economy, growth and feeling safe in your home and community. what is donald trump's best original idea about creating jobs? nothing new under the sun if you look at republicans and democrats. mark: shouldn't there be eschewed mark couldn't they come

to us with new ideas -- shouldn't there be? so no new ideas? guest: there's a debate over too much or too little in the tax code. too many rules and regulations. on the left side or right side of that debate and usis that debate that drives into what kind of government we have in our lives. one thing that is new that washington is not good at is that you will have the backing of the people. they are sick and tired of nobody having their backend donald trump is fired up. sometimes he's in the ditch, but these rolling with the current of this river and hillary clinton is paddling upstream, working against us, her own private e-mail service, i think republicans are coming together and i think donald trump has this moving in the right direction. he's got to continue to make progress.

guest: no one has said that they want to build a wall and have mexico pay for it. ark: i want to ask you question i have been asking republicans the last couple of months. you both had reservations about donald trump, you are voting for him. what separates you from your friends and colleagues who are not for him? guest: everyone is on a different timetable. for all of us, it's a little easier. the voters have spoken. this is where they want us to go. he was not my first, second or third pick. some folks, it's going to take a little longer. i'm convinced a lot of folks who say they are never going to vote for donald trump, as they think about supreme court and federal appointments, they are going to get. it maybe august for some or it may be november, but i think it

is going to happen because hillary clinton is unacceptable and after seeing the guys from benghazi last night, she ought to be disqualified just based on benghazi. andt: i look at my district they love donald trump. republicans and democrats say this guy is fighting for me. he cares about my security, my job and my family. they think they are just like each other. they don't know that donald has gold faucets in his penthouse. they think they live the same life. and we can't deny this guy has had more votes than any other presidential primary candidate and our history and he had 17 opponents in the race. as we philosophize and pontificate about what is happening, he's touching a chord with america and the politicos, which we will all say we are, will get on board and say this is where the train is going. i'm either with donald trump or i'm going to be with hillary clinton.

i think our side of the aisle is going to consolidate to donald trump and they will all be at the polls because they don't want to have hillary clinton. john: although you guys are coming through loud and clear on television, there's a bunch of noise here. that is these protesters outside, not complaining about you -- that is what you are hearing. you think donald trump can win the election? guest: absolutely. john: do you think it's going to be a close election? guest: if he performs well, it will be a close election. john: neither of you think he's going to win in a blowout? you get a to point when you are a republican, that is a blowout. john: every candidate has problems. what is the key problem donald trump needs to address? guest: i think he's to stay on script. when he goes off script and sits

up there for 45 minutes and says what's on his mind, he can get in trouble. for, for is looking lack of a better phrase, crazy things he says. guest: i think he's got to be disciplined and some of that is don't put him in these settings with 10,000 screaming people where he wants to feed the beast. put him with small groups. have him go into african-american and hispanic immunities. whether he wins votes were not in that community, i think he will. he will send the message he cares about all americans. he got to bring all americans together and his swing voters in states like wisconsin, if they see him in african-american or hispanic community's come i think he wins votes were maybe we can win a state like wisconsin. mark: give me one sentence if you were in the room with donald trump and john kasich, one thing you would say to them. guest: i would tell trump to be

kasich -- i would tell trump to be patient. hillarytell kasich clinton. guest: do you want bernie ordeal and donald? get on board. if you want a future in politics, in four years or eight years now, you've got to be part of this team or else you are going to make a lot of people angry. john: i think donald trump might like that message but i think donald -- i think john kasich might reject it. coming up, we will hear from the other side of the aisle when debbie wasserman schultz joins our conversation after this. inyou are watching us washington, d.c., you can hear us on the radio radio on 99 11. ♪

>> when i was a little girl, i went to see when they reissued it, the movie "the wizard of oz." there were similarities that appeared to me. lots of sound and fury and even a fog machine, but when you hold back the curtain, it was just donald trump with nothing to offer for the american people. mark: that was hillary clinton

speaking about the republican national convention in cleveland. she was in north las vegas at an event. here with us in cleveland is the democratic chair, debbie wasserman schultz, to talk about republicans and planning. mondaynvention starts on in philadelphia. tell me about tom vilsack. a wonderfulas governor and doing a fantastic job as our secretary of agriculture. is centerleft, moderate public servants that would be centerleft. mark: tell me about tim kaine. debbie: tim kaine did a fantastic job and was my processor at the dnc. now a senator and has a lot of experience in terms of foreign policy.

he has lived abroad. he is fluent in spanish. if either of them were picked, how would your delegates and party members react? debbie: well. i think anyone who has been talked about on the short list secretary clinton is interviewing would make excellent vice presidential candidates. doubt inyou have any your mind of the selection of elizabeth war and would generate more excitement among rank-and-file democrats -- elizabeth moran would generate more excitement among rank-and-file democrats? warren oh elizabeth would bring a lot of excitement and there are potential candidates that would bring a different kind of excitement depending on what you are trying to draw from. john: putting someone on the ticket is a way to address very -- various clinical problems.

does hillary clinton have an enthusiasm issue? does she need to get the rank-and-file excited? debbie: hillary clinton on her own is going to excite our base and we have an opportunity to make history by electing the first woman candidate for president from any major party being nominated in american history. she's the most respected and admired woman in the world and the most prepared candidate. we will see next week that she will generate an enormous amount of enthusiasm. given everything said about her and all the horrible things you believe about donald trump, why is this race even close? it's only july and love you in the national media of us about. in july, polls don't mean a lot. what does me a lot is your ground game and the ramp up to

the ground game in which the republicans are publicly, admittedly far behind us. donald trump has no staff here to speak of in ohio. very paltry staff in florida. we are out organizing and mobilizing and that's going to make a huge difference when it comes to the home stretch. mark: a big controversy last night with melania trump. normally your party would jump all over it. there's been virtually no reaction to their controversy. why is that? trump gave aia very nice speech and presented herself nicely to the american people and it's a to the trump campaign to defend the content of that speech. normally you would jump on anytime they have had some weakness or problems -- is it because spouses are off-limits debbie: this is a story

between the trump organization and the people who hold them accountable. they certainly have had a whole day. mark: there were lines lifted from a speech from president kennedy. would you leave that alone? debbie: there's a huge difference between the person who has their name on the ballot and their spouse. is definitely a concern and the trump organization has to answer for it. they have not done a very good job answering for it all day long and we think it's weeks for itself. mark: we will see you in philadelphia. all -- we will answer all of the questions about what's been happening in the queue after this. ♪

>> is it help full to have him trashing the governor of the same party? >> i would rather just keep things positive. john: that was the republican party chairman talking about john kasich at the bloomberg politics rnc breakfast hosted by our friend al hunt. joining us now is senior white house correspondent margit tell of -- margaret telles. we asked why they were not making more hay with the melania

trump scandal. she gave what i thought was a pretty disingenuous answer. trump'sump over mr. missteps. why are they playing it so light? margaret: this is a get out of the way situation. generally the other party steps off the gas and lets the other people have their moment and iss is to hang yourself, it to hang yourself. it risks backfiring. much more a sympathetic figure than her husband. everybody knows that she did not write her own speech and english is not her first language. if they hammer her on it, it could backfire whereas if they let the republicans do the damage to themselves, it's more fun. mark: i'm old enough to remember a time that during the convention, the other nominee would go into hiding. those days are gone.

she's got a pretty aggressive schedule. --garet: we saw her talk in talking to the naacp. these are moves to the base, talking to african-american voters, talking to organize labor, and there is a balancing act between hitting her own niche groups that are likely to getatching for something to whipped up about and then stepping off the gas and trying to figure out when more is less or less is more. do you think the question of who clinton is selecting as her running mate is a really short list? margaret: it seems like it's down to tim kaine and john bills act unless it is someone completely different. even though we widely expect this will happen on friday. our use surprised it is down to those relatively centrist white guys?

margaret: i think when elizabeth came out and everyone was electrified between the spark between the two of them, it was fun to watch. wireframe glasses on -- you could not look away. this madeof that, sense and mike pence very likely gave her the sense to navigate in which ever way she felt the vrabel. we could be surprised but it aims like those are the two the conventional wisdom is buzzing around. how is philadelphia shaping up taste on the once the margaret: vice president pick is selected, then it is all steam ahead toward philadelphia and the democrats have in diffused by the little bit, leading up to

bernie sanders getting on board. givingre's so much here them a kratz something to rally around, so i think you will the the heavy hitters with a high favorables like president obama and joe biden come together and that will allow clinton to make it a much more unifying event. there's always some chaos, but they've got a pretty clear plan about what they want each night to be like. great to have you here. we will see you in philadelphia. we have more coverage from cleveland in a minute. ♪

john: republican convention night number two underway, jeff session -- jeff sessions officially putting forth the nominee. is positive bye nature. he has tremendous energy and strength. these a warrior and a winner. [applause] he loves his country and he is determined to see it the a winner again. party been proud of this and its principles since i was a teenager. know not given to us to the future. i certainly don't, but i came to believe some months ago that donald trump is the singular leader that can get this country

back on track. [applause] the rollcall vote is a time-honored tradition. do you get excited watching that? mark: it's exciting, but it is also history. anyonetrump, unlike everyone has seen nominated. up, emily chang .ill sit down with eric hippo tomorrow, mark and i will be back here in cleveland adding ready or night number three. sayonara to you. ♪

mark: i'm mark crumpton. let's begin with a check of your first word news. barring last-minute complications, donald trump is hours away from securing the republican party's residential

nomination. the traditional rollcall begins tonight, delivering the delegates he needs. you are looking at a live victor from the convention center in cleveland. trump will try to convince the party establishment he can defeat hillary clinton in november. mrs. clinton says the republican convention is a surreal affair. of told a las vegas meeting county eminence for workers that the gathering was like the wizard of oz, when you pull back the curtain, it was just donald trump with nothing to offer the american people. meanwhile, there are reports mrs. clinton could announce her vice presidential pick as early as friday. the turkish president turned to social media when the military faction shutdown radio and television stations. supportedis that he blocks to facebook and