big mention. phil, we were talking about tim kaine. if you are tim kaine, this is your big moment in the sun, but your bracketed on one side by joe biden and mike bloomberg, and on the other side by barack donald trump asked russia to obama. you have to think, where is the spotlight? phil: a lot of delegates want to hear from him. they want to hear his story. there was a lot of momentum out hack into hillary clinton's e-mails. gentlemen, i can of that event over the weekend in miami where kainw gave -- kaine gave a great speech. assure you that our grand scale plans will be delivered. ♪ you can expect biden and obama to talk about hillary, so kaine >> happy dems con day three, can talk about himself and what he would be a good governing partner for her, and why he would be a better vice president. john: some parties in the left, there is still some resistance comrades. to kaine and his selection. convention is where does that stand, and what can he do, if anything, to make bringing out the big guns in philadelphia, bigger than the the party fully embrace him? past two nights. margaret: they have mostly moved bloomberg, tim

outside, for purposes of the audience tonight, which matters when you're giving a speech, the kaine, and barack obama all feedback you are getting in the room. but the clinton campaign is taking the stage later this looking for kaine to impress. evening in that order. let's talk about the still native spanish speaker, unfolding espionage saga. the new york times says u.s. catholic, gun-control advocate, intelligence agencies have high confidence the russian though she is artie making the government was behind the dnc case for that -- already making e-mail hack that has embarrassed the case for that, too. the democratic party and led to chaos. when i saw him speaking to the haveays, democrats virginia delegation and he started tearing up, choking up during his remarks, how much he suggested that russian authorities are trying to tip the scale in favor of donald might end up being like biden. trump. probably a little more that president obama seem disciplined, not quite as loquacious, but fun, emotionally to encourage in an interview. the fbi is think vulnerable stories. we know because we cover politics, but most people investigating what happened. experts have attributed this to the russians. have no idea who tim kaine is. what we do know is that the mark: on what issues are the , notans hack our systems democrats playing offense? phil: national security. just government systems, but we will hear from national private systems. security leaders, including the what the motives were, i can't on panetta, former -- leon

panetta, former defense say directly. secretary. trump made this charge a couple what i do know is that donald hours ago, and the democrats are trump has repeatedly expressed going to try to -- mark: bill clinton would never admiration for vladimir putin. >> it sounds like you are have let gun-control be such a prominent thing at his convention. the issue has obviously changed. between our boss, mike suggesting that putin might be bloomberg, speaking tonight, and gabby giffords, do they see a motivated to prefer trump in the white house. >> i am basing this on what mr. risk or is this all-in? phil: they said they think this trump has said. i think trump has gotten pretty is a winning issue, that they favorable coverage back in russia. donald trump responded today can win over suburban moms in virginia, north carolina, and ohio with the gun control during a long press conference message. it's a real sea change in politics. john: we talked about this all where he disavowed any connections to vladimir putin week, how liberal the convention come but but then seem to propose a new object -- project is, and how different it is from for russian hackers. are listening,ou bill clinton's era. we had an document workers -- i hope you are able to find the undocumented workers up on 30,000 e-mails that are missing. stage. even if you embrace immigration, i think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press. that sound point has doing that seems risky,

especially in the climate donald trump has capitalized on. are a worried about that? become a big flash for democrats around the country. margaret: this is a turnout game in their mind. the clinton come and put out a if they can turn out liberal statement that said "this has to be the first time that a major presidential candidate has democrats, there are a lot of liberal registered democrats who might or might not vote, and if actively encouraged a foreign they can turn out those they power to conduct espionage against his political opponent." might not need as many in the middle. they also feel a little safety jason miller pushed back and in the idea that trump is a tweeted out a number of things contrast. including this, to be clear mr. if it was someone less polarizing, they might be more trump did not call on or invite careful, but he has changed the equation. rusher or anybody else to mark: margarettalev, -- accurately clinton's e-mails today. other republicans have been margaret talev, phil rocker, trying to walk back what donald trump said. newt gingrich said donald both touched by genius, we are happy to have you here. trump was joking. mike pence put out a statement coming up, the great jim rutenberg, after the break. ♪ saying, there would be consequences if russia is indeed interfering in the american election. mike pence called out democrats for trying to use the russia issue as a distraction from what was in those dnc e-mails.

i think there is a lot of fault on both sides. who has the upper hand in this cold war of words? john: the democrats have the upper hand. donald trump is making dumb mistakes. thate world, the notion donald trump is saying, listen up, russia, it may be a great thing in some way. if you come up with these clinton e-mails, you might be rewarded. there is no upside for donald trump to give ammunition to the democrats. mark: he should be condemning russia and no uncertain terms. they have walked it back. is ridiculous, but the president of the united states is engaged in pure a lot politics, suggesting donald trump's position on vladimir putin or nato suggest we need to look into some connection between the leaking of these e-mails and the donald trump campaign. it.e is no evidence of

the president of the united states should not be doing that. john: there is no collusion. i think what he said was careful. praisedrump has vladimir putin publicly on multiple occasions. look at what putin's motives would be to meddle in american elections. mark: the democrats are suggesting there is some type of collusion, but if our job is to tell both sides, both sides have dirty hands. john: i have not heard anybody suggest collusion. mark: that is why they are bring it up. john: the russians seem to be trying to put their hands on the scale in an american election. vladimir putin likes donald trump your donald trump raises vladimir putin. mark: donald trump should be condemning it, but the dnc is trying to distract by creating this notion we should be looking into whether donald trump and paul manafort colluded with the russians.

that is what they are doing. john: it would be very easy to shut down and condemn vladimir ♪ putin and the strongest terms. ♪ mark: he made a mistake by not doing it. back here at the third both sides are behaving badly. john: last night we heard a restrained, personal speech from night of the democratic convention. bill clinton about hillary joining us is jim rittenberg of clinton. the "new york times," working on a new piece comparing last week's trump show in cleveland tonight, it is the current president's turn to live up to to this convention in colossal expectations for his convention address. philadelphia. you have philadelphia roots. ask in that interview with jim: thanks for having me. mark: two things the media savannah guthrie what his message will be, president said judges regularly about conventions. one whether the program is he will share on optimistic view ashe pitches hillary clinton organized, whether it fits the primetime well, and the other is overwhelmingly equipped to be the next commander in chief. logistics. cleveland had good logistics, but the program was, let's say willestion for you is what will constitute the unorthodox, including monday and tuesday where 10:30 to 11:00 were a mess. here, the logistics are success of barack obama? horrendous -- sorry, philadelphia. clinton's speech was jim: i am upset about it. mark: but the program has been textbook. video, live guests, celebrities, underwhelming and workmanlike, and maybe the right call. this arena, they are on fire for politicians.

so who is doing better? jim: i will start out by saying, barack obama. she is putting on a better even a lot of the sanders television show, a delegates like barack obama a better-produced television show. it's almost the show he said he lot more than they like hillary clinton. would do. the mostome in as .usical acts, political stars unifying figure along with his wife. he need to do what bill clinton , his, as you said, was at times did for him, validate the notion that he knows what it takes, predicting now with russia on like he had dead air, or things ended 20 minutes before the end national security. mark: he is the most important of primetime, which is crazy. but i don't know if it matters. and that's what i'm trying to sift through. speaker at this convention other than hillary clinton. he has the capacity to perform but she is running a better -- mark: by the old standards, no an incredibly important validating function. question the democrats are more machinelike, even with all the disruptions from the sender's folks. jim: she is holding her audience bill clinton is almost universally beloved -- barack better. her ratings are higher. that really surprises me. john: so what's the argument for obama, i'm sorry you're it why it would not matter? the most striking thing, you had almost universally loved among democrats, left, right, and millennia trump, donald trump -- center. john: the thing about barack rump, donald trump obama, like michelle obama, he knows how to work this convention room. junior leaving the state by 10:30, and you had empty seats. it made no sense to me. i asked paul manafort, and he

he's never had a bad convention speech. the president gets the politics gave me an answer that i thought was literally in copper answerable. of this moment, the national so what would be -- literally incomprehensible. so what would be the argument security moment, and republicans that it was smart, or did not can equal advocate and lay down matter? jim: i don't think it was a president obama's approval rating. smart move, but earlier we saw if his approval rating was 31% he did get a polling bounce out or 41%, this would be much tougher. of the convention. maybe they are overly gun-shy on almost half the country approves the job he is doing. mark: he has the eye of the this stuff, but i'm suspending the rules. tiger. he is filling the air, which we this is his last big lyrical talked about on our show before, speech of his career, other than so maybe that formula keeps farewell addresses. working. i don't know. i think the smart people in this he wants to return bill clinton's favor. we will hear from the vice building obviously say what they are doing here will be better. mark: the killer thing for me is president of the 90 states, joe the ratings. biden. " this on "morning joe his speech, not as highly rated as john mccain's. the first night -- have we seen morning, taking jabs at donald trump. last night's ratings? jim: last night was again. > mark: how does trump explain that? jim: that, to him, is more don't expect the government to important than the polling. solve my problems. i expect them to understand my text on my phone -- hope problems, just understand my problems.

i really honestly got believe, and i know you do too, give hicks, i will be in touch. mark: what would be spain be -- ordinary americans a chance and they can do extraordinary the spin be? things. that is not hyperbole. they can do extraordinary things. jim: i read the transcript. there used to be a basic bargain here, and the bargain used to be it was unclear in the press conference today, what he was referring to. that if i participated in the but if the program is not that success of the venture i worked good -- people watch, they are in, i got to participate in the profit. thrown in, and they are that whole bargain has been watching. broken. john: there was some discord and the whole corporate culture has disunity in the first two days changed. of the convention, especially what will constitute monday. in your judgment, watching the way it was covered, did the press overplay it, underplay it, success? what is the vice president doing tonight? john: i spent some time with the or basically got it right? jim: i want to be sensitive to vice president. it is clear what his the view among sanders people instructions are. harry clinton has problems with that it was under-covered, because a lot of things have white working-class voters in been under-covered. the rust belt. so maybe i would go a little, slightly under-covered. hers here to testify to at the same time, the story of being a champion for those voters, trying to say she the night and that being what understands you, maybe not as was on the stage, which speaks to putting on a good convention.

you wash it away. well as i understand it, but she mark: let's go back to the understands you, too. mark: biting gave an incredible question of dissemination of information. the network ratings, that's obviously the biggest way to speech because bill clinton's reach people. speech was so good. the republicans made a big deal after cleveland of facebook this is his last big time on video streams, social media. stage. aboutk he will talk my sense is the democrats are doing more on local television than the republicans did, just from walking around the hall. foreign policy and donald trump as well, but the big thing is economics. but is there an argument that the republican somehow got their message out, trump-style, lester had he run, i don't know he network television and more through social media? would have been the nominee, but jim: that's always an argument with trump, no matter what. he would have impacted the race in a big way. even his counterprogramming for this convention, with the i think tonight you will see him try to say that she will try to exception of the press conference, has been a big deal on twitter. you know that the democrats are tell the hall and the country probably pumping this out, and we can be sure, pumping it out what he believes, that he is every much a good speaker as methodically. though clinton and barack obama. dollarsbet you one main an independent voter, they know what they are watching and they that he will go more than 12 use that data. the ultimate test of this minutes. mark: the other thing about campaign will be, dicing and biden is that he is from slicing and a bunch of magic, him, this is for but we will see. john: one of the things we all

an attempt to say to the country do here is theater criticism, and we are kind of compelled to on a big platform, i get what is do it. going on in america. we love to do it. when will we know, in your judgment, when will we know what he is more of a got politician has worked and what has not whether these than barack obama is in terms of economics. kaine will formally accept his nomination as the conventions were successful or democratic candidate for vice president this evening. not successful relative to one another and in the abstract? jim: you guys have been at it a little longer than i have, but i this morning, tim kaine spoke to have been at it long enough. you guys are a little older than i am, i think. a handful of state delegations, we will know a couple weeks. including his home state where john: should we get the bouncer he called donald trump and in here to get this guy out of "one-man wrecking crew". here? [laughter] jim: it will take a couple weeks. mark: what has been the imagery eventnd i were at the like year -- here? not the speakers, but the that got rave reviews. would we expect to hear from tim kaine tonight? pick.tim kaine is a great symbolism of the state and the makeup of the speakers overall? jim: obviously it is a big, diverse, democratic party. the videos have been super he is qualified, gets along with well-produced. hillary clinton. does it matter? we will see. but they are getting play on tv. he makes you better. she is better with him around. mark: these are the best he has been virtually invisible. produced videos i can remove or edit convention. i'm not sure who is seeing -- i i'm not sure his name id is much higher than it was last week can remove her at a

convention. because it has been overshadowed by the convention and this i'm not sure who is seeing them. jim: the trunk convention was a really show, and compelling at e-mail flap. i think this is his biggest he is to show people what that in its own way. mark: philly's fast, jim like good the thing he needs to rittenberg. do is to show why his life story thank you, jim rittenberg. and his life's work actually john and i will be right back. marries up with what hillary clinton wants to do as president. caredof the things he has about, his narrative, plays into hillary clinton's vision of the office. john: introduce himself to the country and the party. even though he is considered a centrist, quite progressive come and speak a lot of spanish tonight. that is a big part of his appeal, with that electoral constituency, lived in honduras, speaks fluent spanish. we will hear it from the stage tonight a lot. the speech was not considered a great success. does heion tonight is

find the ability to have the country fall in love with him a little bit. we shall see. ttp we come back, some trouble and clinton world thanks to a clinton ally. we will talk more about donald trump's press conference this morning right after this. ♪

♪ excerptse selected from president obama's speech are out in a matter of hours. according to the prepared text, he will say, "there has never been a man or woman more qualified than hillary clinton to serve as president of the united states of america." that is a big play. check out bloomberg politics for

all of our coverage from philadelphia. coming up, "bloomberg west." until tomorrow, from mark and me, mark and i, whatever -- sayonara. ♪ mark: welcome back to philadelphia, the third day of the convention has been gaveled in here. president obama, vice president biden, and other speaking tonight. dealing with another

big distraction. it started yesterday. when one of the clinton's biggest allies, terry mcauliffe, told politico that he thinks hillary clinton would support ?c+sv mark: i am mark crumpton. the tpp deal if she became president. this has been a tough issue for clinton. she was ford, then against it. it explains why the campaign has been so quick to react. the chair of the campaign tweeted last night after comments were published "love governor mcauliffe, but he got this wrong. italy clinton opposes tpp before and after the election." donald trump saw an opening and pounds during his press conference in florida. mehillary clinton because of said tpp was back going to happen. we all know it is going to happen, if she wants. terry mcauliffe said with a wink to a group of people that if hillary gets in, she is lying and it will happen.

there is nobody closer, i know this for a fact, there is nobody, including her own husband, closer to hillary clinton dan terry mcauliffe, ok? mark: clinton's campaign continues to try to swap this down. this afternoon, he you are watching "bloomberg west ." tonight, president obama will walked back his own self. >> i thought she was asking me good hillary clinton ever tell the nation and delegates support a trade deal. attending the democratic national convention why hillary clinton, his one-time fierce of course she could if it meets our criteria. rival, should succeed him. it is against our criteria. the white house has released she is against ttp. excerpts of the speech, which reads in part, "there has never will she do a trade deal, listen, i'm a governor of a state. been a man or a woman more qualified than hillary clinton to serve as president of the i like trade deals, but they have to make sense. united states of america." this one does not make sense. also scheduled to speak tonight, in re says this one does not vice president biden and mrs. clinton's running mate, virginia make sense for her. senator tim kaine. i don't see her ever supporting this. mark: terry mcauliffe says he the daughter of president ronald reagan has criticized a judge's didn't mean it. the campaign says he is wrong. decision to grant freedom to john hinckley junior, the man who shot the president and three is this a problem for her? john: it just reinforces the others in washington 35 years ago. on her website, patty davis says

sense of the big grand that her heart is sickened by narrative. the decision. once hinckley is released from a her husband and she have been for free trade deals. government psychiatric hospital, , all freeow in doubt he will live with his mother in williamsburg, virginia. the turkish state run news trade deals. thatinforces that sense agency says close to 7000 officers have been formerly discharged -- formally even if she does not sign tpp that something like tpp will be discharged from the military after the country's failed coup. on the table and 27 and she will be for that. i believe that is true. complete unforced error. the reality is a lot of democratic politicians believe in free trade. john: as do a lot of republicans. is the worst possible thing, probably not a long-term problem, but does allow donald trump on opening on an area where he is going to have to have an upper hand. she has moved left on trade. he needs an upper hand on trade

to win a state like this. john: this is a classic case where right and left don't matter anymore, insider or outsider. in terms of the politics this year, she is on the insider of establishment side. over the past couple of days, democrats, including bernie sanders, have been hitting donald trump pretty, pretty hard on raising the minimum wage. trump has responded. in a fox news interview with seem toeilly, trump offer conflicting statements. first, saying there does not federal wage, but would leave it and raise it somewhat. today at his press conference in florida, donald trump lack pedaled a bit as he tried to clear things up. >> i would like to raise it to at least $10. what i'm going to do is bring jobs back to this country so people can start working again,

so the $10, the 15 the dollars, the numbers you are talking about, they will be peanuts compared to what people can make in the country. so, again suggesting it should be left to the states, so are a lot of confusion on where trump stands on this. how much of a problem is that confusion? mark: the press loves a candidate who cannot make up his mind, and donald trump has a problem with that. win, he needs to -- you have heard this from charlie black and others -- he needs three or four talking points to say where this is where i am on the economy better than hillary clinton. has got to do that cleanly, take it off the table, and move to areas where he thinks he is better. outside,ide or

populist or establishment, the for raising is the minimum wage over $10 an hour. i don't get why he is not just out there with it. he doesn't care what the business roundtable or chamber of commerce says. he should in brace this thing and take it off the table. he is going to annoy everybody and come off as inconsistent. the business community will have to live with him or not. if he is for this, he should take a position. up next, a new battle. what chelsea clinton said about her friend yvonne cut -- trump. that is after this. ♪

john: the political world has been watching the dynamics of two complicated friendships play out at hillary clinton and barack obama, coming full circle tonight when the president speaks in philadelphia. thet, the battle of potential first daughters to chelsea clinton called out her , saying herrump father has not put forward any policies to support the rights of working women. after ivanka'ss speech and comments about equal pay. is this escalation and evitable? mark: it is. they are friends and have tried .o stay out of it . level of animus their parents have towards each other

now. both families are clannish and a positive way, and i think there was just no way that it was not going to escalate. will it escalate more? i don't think so. john: i don't think it will get personal. mark: if they go after each other's parents, which chelsea did, it will be a different tenor than it has been up until now. john: we saw chelsea go after bernie manders -- sanders in the early part of the nomination fight. ivanka open the door to this argument the she said a bunch of things that are not part of donald trump's platform. i'm surprised chelsea called her out on it. bill clinton did not mention donald trump in his speech. john: not a word. implicitly it was there. mark: let's see if that holds. let's see how the other trump

kids do. , it could go either way. another complicated relationship, long chronicled by both of us. on full display tonight. president obama to make the case for the woman are used to be his friend, then friends again, and now potentially his successor. the clinton relationship, the the obama's,h where is that? they have always been rivals. politically at this moment, they are as lined as they could be. they will not be close. obama needs hillary clinton to win this election. hillary clinton needs barack obama to help her win this election. public argument they're making, i think they will be tight all the way through november. mark: what is true about all

democrats is true about the obama's and the clintons. they can talk about their confidence in winning. they know there is some chance the donald trump could win. they are so worried that some intervening event or poor performance by hillary clinton could lead to what they consider unthinkable. arms locked, have a successful convention, and do everything they can through election day to keep donald trump from winning. john: barack obama has more at stake in this election. whole obama would see his legacy of literate it if her publicans control the senate, the house, and the white house. coming up, a preview of the penultimate night. that is when we come back. ♪

. .

♪ >> our party has chosen a man to lead us who embodies the best this country has to offer, and

that man is john kerry! john kerry believes in the constitutional freedoms that have made our country the envy of the world, and he will never sacrifice our basic liberties, or use faith as a wedge to divide us. mark: that was in 2004, either barack obama or his son, speaking for the last time at a convention. an incredible speech. joining us now, anita dunn, former communications director for barack obama and a democratic strategist. how is the convention going? anita: the program has been amazing. in terms of doing what a convention really needs to do, which is to tell the story of the candidate, and also where the candidate wants to take the country, what kind of country the candidate sees the united states becoming, the convention has to be considered a great success. there was a low bar to clear after cleveland last week, and that was cleared once we coupled open. the reality is, the first two

nights have done a great job at really illustrating some basic things about hillary clinton that get lost in the give and take of the daily kind of campaign. onn: tell me what has gone in the mind of barack obama over the last week, as he has geared up to do this speech tonight? anita: i do not know what has gone on. john: you do know. anita: i don't know. john: you know the man pretty well. anita: i would say his first focus tonight is to make the best case he can for why hillary clinton should be elected president. that is very much his focus. a focus about why this election is so important, and why this candidate should be elected. that is, he is somebody who stays very focused on what is the main issue here, what do i really need to accomplish here. then, of course, there is a part of the speech that is going to need to address his points about where we have been as a country, and where we are going, that

defines this job as one that only hillary clinton can fill. john: the lead story, i predict, will not be about barack obama or henry clinton, but about russia -- hillary clinton, but about russia and what trump did. are voters likely to learn anything about what's happening here at this convention, as opposed to is going on with vladimir putin? anita: voters are hearing plenty about what goes on at the convention. looking at the ratings this week, they have been very encouraging, in terms of people tuning in to hear these speeches. by the morning shows tomorrow, by the late news tonight, by what you are going to see on social media, they will have some compelling speeches here tonight, and some of the party 's most compelling speakers. mark: you work medications director at a time of peak trump craziness in the white house. you were around when donald trump was assaulting the

president and raising the birther issue. give us some insight into how in terms, what that, of how the president feels about it personally and donald trump as the republican nominee. anita: the president, when he got to the white house correspondents dinner and discussed the birther stuff, did as good of a job as anybody ever will at telling the world how he feels. i don't feel i can really compete with that. i was gone from the white house, but i was around for the first round of the birther stuff during the 2008 campaign. we were a campaign that prided itself on transparency, and putting these things out. you know, i never thought i would have to work on a campaign where we would have to put somebody 's birth certificate on the web for everyone to look at. and even then, it was the short version. mark: you are a big tim kaine fan.

anita: i love tim kaine. mark: covering vice presidential picks, they get excited, and then they start to realize they are number two. you can imagine some people being picked and then, you are speaking on the same night as joe biden and barack obama. do you think tim kaine, over the next few months, will chafe at this and fight for more limelight, or is that not his personality? anita: i think tim kaine walked into this knowing exactly what the job is, and embracing the job. he was one of the three finalists in 2008, so he had plenty of time back then to think about what it means to give up your own political identity. john: but joe biden really fought, and continues to fight for a big seat at the table. aanita: and hillary clinton made it clear, she wants a vice president who has a big seat at the table. one thing i thought was striking, i thought she looked terrific on saturday. her tone was terrific. it makes her better. she really likes him. john: we all know that tim kaine

has a lot of qualities, some of what you just described. one quality that is not evident, at least, is the ability to take the wood to someone. does kaine have the capacity to be an attack dog? will he be a tough debater against mike pence? anita: tim kaine has been elected governor and senator in a genuinely purple state. in four years, we might call it a blue state, but for now it is a purple state. those were not easy elections, and he has won them. my own assessment of kaine is that he's one of the rare politicians who has the ability to deliver a negative message without sounding negative. that is an important thing. john: have you seen any data or indications that the bill clinton speech played better with real voters than in the hall, which was relatively subdued? anita: that bill clinton speech was an interesting speech last night.

in many respects, since nobody has ever heard a male spouse make that speech about a female. it had so many of the classic elements of a spouse speech at a convention, and we look at him, oh my gosh, because we have not heard that speech made about a woman. it was interesting, people's reactions to it based on that. john: part of it was we have seen bill clinton be pyrotechnic in many past convention speeches, and he was much more subdued, much more of a surrogate, something he has never really done before, forgetting about the gender dynamics. anita: i think tim kaine two,ces his role as number and i think bill clinton is learning his role as a surrogate and a spouse. what he gave last night was in many ways the classic spousal speech, telling you a little about our private life, telling you anecdotes. none of the trumps did that last week, no personal anecdotes. but taking chelsea to college, how he sat there, a mess, and

hillary was going around doing all the unpacking and stuff like that. that was an important moment. did: tiffany trumpo talk about trump reading her report cards. coming up, more from the democratic national convention. thursday behind us, and below us, here in philadelphia. you can listen to us in washington on the radio on bloomberg fm. we will be right back. ♪

♪ john: tonight, barack obama and joe biden will speak here in philadelphia. we are joined by two reporters who has covered -- have covered

the white house beat. what are you looking for tonight? margaret: i mean, we are looking for two different things. one is for president obama to make the most forceful case he can on the merits of hillary clinton. the other is the obvious emotional drama tonight. 12 years ago to the day, president obama, young barack obama, gave his speech that would launch his career at that convention. to the day. and now he's on the other end of it. it was, you know, eight years ago that the clintons kind of got over it and helped him have the legitimacy among the establishment to be elected president. and now the roles are reversed. so there is an emotional symmetry to the night, but also, there's obama making his case. i'm also looking for how he will balance trump, which is the elephant in the room. mark: the first day had a lot of chaos. yesterday, there was a little

bit of it, but sanders in the nomination process put that to rest. tonight, there is no longer any sense of disruption. they are in control of the whole thing. phil: there was a lot of emotion at the beginning of the convention, and the sanders supporters kind of let the air out of the bag now. tonight is the chance for obama and biden to make the case for what could effectively be a third term, staying the course, making a foreign policy and national security case for hillary clinton, in particular against donald trump. mark: is there a feeling in the white house, any sense of the stuff going on with russia allows them to amp up going after trump hard on the situation with national security? margaret: this is personal for obama. what he was planning to do tonight was to stay away largely from the negative attacks, and stay away from his own resume, and talk about hillary clinton. i think trump has put something in play that he has to deal with. but the way the white house is try to manage this, they plan a

limited number of trump mentions, maybe half a dozen in the speech tonight. sometimes he changes his mind. sometimes he goes a little off script. but they will try to keep that minimal, for now, and then go hard the rest of the week and let other surrogates -- you might see other surrogates likely on panetta, someone i'm looking for -- like leon panetta, someone i'm looking for. a in memoriams, video to people connected to the dnc that have passed away. one of our colleagues, getting a