>> from our studios in new york, this is "charlie rose." charlie: we are in philadelphia for the fourth and final day of the democratic national convention. it is the night hillary clinton accepted the nomination for president of the united states. we are taking this program before chelsea clinton introduces her mother in what will be for her mother the most significant speech of her life. >> there is something else my mother taught me. public service is about service.

. [applause] and -- as her daughter, i had a special window into how she served. i have seen her holding the hands of mothers worried about how they will feed their kids, how they will get the health care they need. i see my mother promising to do everything she could to help. i have seen her right after those conversations getting straight to work to figure out what she could do, who she could call, how fast she could get results. she always feels like there is not a moment to lose. because she knows for that mother, for that family there isn't. people ask me all the time how does she do it? how do she keep going?

amid the sound and the fury of politics? she never ever forget who she is fighting for. [applause] she has worked to make it easier for foster kids to be adopted, for 9/11 first responders to get health care they deserve. for women around the world to be safe, treated with dignity, to have more opportunities. [cheering and applause] fights like these are what fights like these keep my mother going. they grab her heart, and her

conscience, and they never let go. charlie: last night press obama gave a powerful speech that signaled a passing of the torch. joining me now is eric holder. he was attorney general under 2009 to t obama from 2015. i am pleased to have him here. welcome. you are doing what the convention? eric: i gave a speech, not on the same level of michelle's speech. and the president's speech yesterday. was only five minutes. i talked about voting rights and criminal justice reform. charlie: how much is that going to be part of your life, being an advocate for criminal justice reform and big issues having to do with race? eric: when i left the department of justice, i said although i was leaving the department of justice i was never going to leave the work. i want to stay involved in the fight for equality, that we protect the right to vote. all the things that are

connected to race that have i think so bedeviled us as a nation. for so long. charlie: i think, i have come to this like ryan johnson and others, have we considered all of the impact of slavery? on this country? eric: i don't think we have. when one looks at the question of slavery and the period of time after slavery, slavery by another name, segregation, there are direct ties, government policies put in place in the 1930's, a whole variety of things that resonate here in the 20th century that find their roots back in the slavery experience and those things that followed. charlie: they are asking the same thing. make sure we understand. every speaker here, we have to do something about violence

against young people and old people in terms of police committing acts of violence in the moment or whatever. we also have to make sure, we have to understand and make sure no one allows violence against police to take place. police to take place. how do we go one step further and then the next step? eric: we have done that first that. to raise the issue. we need to protect the police. we ensure law enforcement will serve with dignity and respect. there is not a tension between those two. now the question becomes, how do we get to that next level? and i think there needs to be some hardheaded conversation. look at the 22nd century task force the police put forth. people can have recommendations from the police task forces. there are specific steps there.

we could really move the ball in a significant way. we have to understand that whole relationship. a law enforcement community relationship cannot be viewed in a microcosm. it is part of larger societal issues that we continue not to address. we are very adept. at avoiding tough racial issues, because they make us feel uneasy. charlie: and then there is implicit bias. a huge part that has to be addressed in law enforcement. law enforcement officers can't look at somebody and make assumptions on the way they look. that's something we have to attack. charlie: in terms of your tenure at justice where do you think succeeded and failed? eric: we advance the ball when it comes to civil rights enforcement. the division had been decimated. i look at protecting the right to vote, for lgbt equality.

i think we did a good job moving terrorism case into the article three courts. i don't think we did a good job when it came to getting gun control, gun safety regulations in place. as i think by my tenure, that is the one area where i wish i could've made more progress. charlie: the president would say the same thing. eric: after newtown i thought for sure, our nation, having mowed down, that would have been the catalyst. but for the nra, i think we could have reached a consensus. but even then -- eric: -- charlie: that is what has to happen, a consensus with the nra? eric: i do not think they are going to come along. i think it will depend on if we can get a spine injection, to go in washington to, to get their constituents to do do, they want them to which is to go

against the gun lobby. it's a defining part of her candidacy. something i'm most proud of when i associate myself with her. unlike other politicians who democrats and republicans, who fudged the issue. she has talked about what needs to be legislated. that is in contrast to donald trump. i think it potentially, it gives her a mandate in that subject. i think there is an expectation and it could happen. charlie: talk about history. we saw 12 years ago we saw history made in 2008. this nomination is history in itself. winning the general election would be remarkable history. we have watched in eight years the possibility. eric: yeah, i was born in 1951. i lived through the civil rights movement. if you had told me in college,

in law school, my time early as a lawyer, the early 2000's, that i would serve under an african-american president, and a woman could be president i might have asked to be taking a drug test. charlie: they will both be lawyers. eric: and here we are. that is something that is important. we can never forget that is a nation has made great progress. we always have things to do. this is a great nation in spite of what donald trump says. we have made great progress. if we acknowledge that we are doing a disservice to people. charlie: hillary clinton helmet told me last week that donald trump is dangerous to the future of the country. it's true. he is temperamentally unsuitable to be president. there have been any number of disqualifiers to his candidacy.

the latest is his apparent invitation to the russians to get involved in the hacking of a private citizen's e-mail. the fact that he doesn't know there are consequences is frightening. he is a dangerous president. that's a good word to use. charlie: is what he suggested it treasonous? eric: i'm not sure. that is a legal determination. you, you can i remind were with the attorney general. charlie: is it illegal in any way? to say to another country i want you to engage in illegal act. it is illegal to hack. i want you to engage in an illegal act against a citizen of america. running for president.

for political advantage that would benefit you, maybe. eric: if he said exactly that, charlie, that would be illegal. i'm not sure he said in that way. his verbiage would be important making that legal determination. charlie: would every american be alarmed if they knew how much hacking goes on? eric: yes. there's a great deal of hacking for a whole variety of reasons that is not disclosed. charlie: for what reasons? eric: there are national security concerns. it would reveal sources and capabilities we have in government to detect and to defend against hacking done by a variety of entities. eric: they hacked john brennan's phone. we know they hacked the personnel. we know they hacked sony.

other private companies. they have hacked the dnc. do you believe it was a russian who hacked the dnc? eric: i really don't know. i'm not trying to avoid the question. i think it is entirely possible. i think it's possible the russians were involved. i would not put it past them. both in terms of their capabilities and their experience. would do they something like that. i mean, putin is a guy who would do something that for any world leader would say -- charlie: i hate to say bromance. >> he has expressed admiration for him, talked about a desire to work with him in areas where we are in stark contrast, claim to have had a meeting with him. charlie: would it strengthen putin? if donald trump was elected? eric: absolutely.

trump h it.claims nato. charlie: we think the chinese have been engaged in hacking. the president said north korea was engaged. eric: we indicted five chinese hackers. hacking into american companies. charlie: i assume we hack as well. eric: we do not do anything in the commercial sphere. charlie: everybody knows that. with the involved president, in fact, that the behalf ent was doing on of the companies. eric: we have capacities we make full use of. i will not get in trouble with the justice department. you know what the line is, don't you? eric: what's the next question, charlie. charlie:

you also said donald trump, you question his gray matter. he's not smart enough to be president? wonder. i wonder if he hides behind bravado to hide -- he has a lack of substance. a person this far along in the process would know about what his plans are. would know about who his mentors would be. intellectual guides might be, and i don't have any sense there is any of that. he seems to be a shallow man. charlie: because you don't see intellectual interests, you don't see anything other than a businessman. whose value is set primarily to a degree, "winning." that is what he says america needs to do. america needs to win. eric: america does win. charlie: when against the chinese. eric: we are winning. we have the best economy in the

world. our economy is one of the best in the world. one of the other things, he sees everything in black and white terms. that is the realm of people who are not very smart. the tough stuff is in the gray areas, where you have to figure things out. he has shown no interest, no capacity to delve in and operate in those gray areas. charlie: yet he will see a bump from his convention in swing states that are crucial. if you don't win the swing states, you will not be president. he is even. despite what you have said, dangerous, not smart enough -- wob-dimensional. eric: yeah. charlie: he is even. eric: it's early to look at polls. he was eight points behind in pennsylvania. another showed him even in pennsylvan pennsylvania. i would say as always,

florida. if he can't win florida, it doesn't work. if you win pennsylvania. can't win florida, it's pretty much over. charlie: do you assume for hillary to win she has to win ohio and florida? eric: not necessarily. if you look at the electoral math from president obama and say that is what you would expect for hillary, there are states she could lose and be well be above 270. charlie: you are not attorney general, loretta lynch was attorney general when fbi director james comey released his judgment about the e-mail investigation. he said she was careless. she said he clarified that. did you think he clarified that? eric: i'm not sure. i think in the hearing held the next day, there was some clarity brought to the things he had said. one of the things is he said if the information had been clearly marked, there would have been a

couple of things. charlie: carelessness is not a presidential holiday. -- quality. that we want to see, is it? eric: but human beings make mistakes. some of our best leaders made mistakes. who we revere make mistakes. abraham lincoln suspended habeas corpus. it was a mistake. charlie: and what she did was a mistake and wrong. and what she did was a mistake and wrong. eric: she has acknowledged it was wrong. apologized for it. i made mistakes as attorney general. charlie: i would try to get you to list them. let's not do that. we're talking about this election. eric: let's not do that. we make mistakes. our leaders are human. we don't want them to make huge mistakes in areas that are consequential. and we look at their mistakes to see if we learn about them and how r mistakes they're handled. charlie: here you go with the

russians. let's assume it may have been the russians. and everybody seemed to raise that possibility. it is a possibility. you suggested they hacked other places. so they could have hacked here. therefore, that is one question. theyhey did, did do it with intent to influence the election? going back to the russians and the chinese, is it unreasonable to expect someone might have hacked her server in her house? is that unreasonable? eric: no, i don't think it is something one should expect it would happen simply because it was not an official government server. charlie: they know who she is. eric: there are protections that can be built in. i don't know about the system. i can't vouch for that system.

charlie: nobody has evidence that it happened. eric: i don't know. charlie: it's possible. we have seen no evidence. and the clinton camp says there's no evidence. eric: there's no evidence of a trump camp either. they'd like to have it and would like to say that. charlie: what is it about president obama that most brings a sense of pride to you? or maybe suggest things because you're close to me. dignity, a sense that everyone admires. why what she said, i think resonated. she spoke as a mother, and the protection of children, in a way that you want to be able to children to a place and a leadership that they are safe. he said he had to wear dark glasses to sasha's graduation. balling and as crying his heart out.

i will admire him the most and why i'll miss him. he is an honorable guy. the person you see is who he is. he is funnier than he is in public. he's a person who though a politician, will take into account political things, he will always say, what's the right thing to do? he was told he had to do something to hillary and he said if i have to do that i don't want to be president. i thought to myself, this is why i'm attracted to this guy. charlie: in terms of value standards and lines he will not go beyond. eric: lines i will not cross. he says there is right, there is wrong and it may be a consequence but i want to do it nevertheless. history is going to be very kind to him. charlie: it's an interesting

thing in america today. there is talk about her running as a third term for barack obama. will run as her own and make her case later. it's interesting to me, the wrong track polls that this country is on the wrong track. he has polls above 50%. eric: i don't understand that. by all of the normal traditional measures people should be saying we are in a pretty good place. especially if you consider this country as opposed to other nations around the world. a part of that has to do with the campaign and the drumbeat that people are fed by republicans about how bad things are when there are pockets of problems. charlie: when you say that,

obviously, there is a sense of optimism about america. when i ask him, what could make your belief not come true? strongest military, strongest economy, highest level of technology, he said our politics. that is what could stop us. this function. eric: we have a dysfunctional system in washing dc right now. that gums up so much where we could make progress with regards to infrastructure, education, research. a whole variety of things we need the government to be involved in. i would say the need for good government still endures. government is not an evil thing or a bad thing if done appropriate. charlie: ronald reagan was wrong when he said government is the problem. eric: i think he was 100% wrong. charlie: bill clinton then said,

the era of big government is over is what he said. of newt at the time gingrich and those types of things. eric: the country has said we are a center-right country. for demographic reasons because of the failure of some conservative policies we are seeing a shift in this nation as a whole moving to the left. charlie: what does that mean? in the role of government? eric: yes. in the sense of the terms of government. what it wants government to do, policies people want in place, conservative things that are have reigned supreme for 30 years are being challenged in question. charlie: whether we want to be opened or closed. having to do with what america has been about. an openness to the rest of the world. >> that is a fundamental question. it is one that has been answered saying, we want to be open to the world.

it is an competitive advantage we have being a diverse nation. charlie: but it does it feel to * appeal to charlie: but it does it feel to some because they are hurting and worried about economic security and worry about not having the life for their children that they had. eric: this is economic transition we are going through, and industrial society where we had lots of people on the factory line and and make cars and things like that, and now robots are doing them. all sorts of artificial intelligence. this is a wrenching time for us. it's a time for leadership and optimism. because we will get through this. charlie: if i have more questions about hacking can i call you? eric: absolutely. charlie: eric holder, former attorney general back in a moment. stay with us.

â charlie: we continue with a top democratic donor and close friend of the clinton family, a supporter of barack obama and a hugely successful wall street hedge fund man. he has been involved in democratic politics, and comes here this evening, i assume, to watch hillary clinton's acceptance of the nomination. what does it mean to you? marc: i think it's great. i have three girls. my daughter is actually nine months pregnant, due any day,

and she decided to come here. it's a big deal for women, and for me. i have known hillary a long time, and i think it's phenomenal. charlie: when did you first meet the clinton family? you are very close to the former president as well. marc: i met them when he was in the white house. we were friendly. after he left office, we ended up becoming much closer. charlie: take someone like you, marc, who i know, you are a friend of mine as well. you support political candidates. you bundle money for them. why do you do it? marc: part of it is i believe in it. i was not born here. i was born outside the united states. i was born in morocco. for me, it's the ability to end up being involved in politics, the ability to help democratic causes, because it ends up helping people like me. when you first come to this country, i think you have an obligation. you should be giving back, and

it's something that i want to do. charlie: donald trump says that people like you give money because they want something. marc: i know that. i also think that donald trump thinks people like me should not be allowed into this country, coming from morrocco. [laughter] but at the end of the day, people do things for various reasons. the reason i'm doing it, at the end of the day, i do believe in the cause. i believe hillary will be a great president, so i would like to do anything i can to help that, and i think other people will also. will also. charlie: you supported strongly president obama. marc: yes. charlie: what is your assessment of how well he has done? the past eight years? marc: he has done a really good job. if you look at the market, right, from when he came into office to where the market is, it is reaching record highs. if you look at the economy, the economy is doing substantially better. charlie: but there are real concerns about the economy, and that's a reason the fed has not raised interest rates.

marc: that's correct. but we have not gone into a recession. when things are going fine, everyone wants them to go better. when things are going well, everybody wants them to go great. when you look at where we were, to where we are today, i'm very happy at the job he has done. what i like to have less -- would i have liked to have less regulations in the financial sector? sure. charlie: but you can live with it. marc: you can live with it. charlie: and that came out of the congress primarily, through dodd-frank, which you supported. marc: i think at the end of the day the pendulum swung too far. there's too much regulation on the banks today, which is why you have fewer loans being made to the people who need those loans. charlie: there is a consensus that the democratic party is moving left. [laughter] are you ok with that, in terms of your own, what you expect and would like to see? marc: you know, i would like the party to be more to the center.

i understand -- charlie: where bill clinton was? marc: exactly. i understand why it is moving left. charlie: because the needs are different. marc: the needs are different for the country, but for the majority of americans it is best to be in the middle and to have those compromises. i don't know if you are able to do that. charlie: political people tell me, including those who you know, some who supported and worked for barack obama and now work for hillary clinton, they say to me, you look at this election, 45% of people strongly support one candidate, and 45% strongly support the democratic candidate, and in between is about 9% to 10% of people who have not made up their mind, who are independent, not affiliated either way. marc: i agree. charlie: and that's for the election will be decided. marc: it always is. i would think somebody who is independent and somebody who is reasonable and logical, and that person will vote for hillary, when you see the different

things that donald trump has done. so you would hope independents would tilt that way. charlie: business people, how do they feel about this election? i know that is a broad brush, and i realize that, but i read something the other day which said, the business elite, you're in the investment part, but people at general electric, big companies that make things, companies that make things, the other people, and manufacturers, thinking about the business roundtable, people like that, and the chamber of commerce is not supporting donald trump. it's a trade issue. marc: it is. i think they would rather have hillary. what business wants is stability. they want transparency. they want to know what's happening. charlie: you make decisions based on expectations. marc: that's correct. you might not agree with everything hillary is doing, but you know where she stands. the problem with donald on the business side, you don't really know where he stands. you don't know what he's going to do.

every day is sort of different things. that freaks people out. charlie: you are a constituent of hers. when she was a senator. did she listen? marc: i think she's great at listening. she really is. the thing that's great about hillary is, she's exceptionally bright, and she will listen to what you have to say and take it under consideration. the goal here for everyone is, at the end of the day, you have a president who is willing to listen, who will try to always do the right thing. charlie: how is she different from her husband, as a politician? marc: i don't think she's as good of a politician. [laughter] i think clinton is in a class by himself. charlie: she knows that. she in fact has said that. marc: it's true. it's just not her. she loves the policy part. she's exceptionally bright, understands the issues, and is willing to work those issues far, far harder. i think president clinton was different, in the sense that he would try to do everything all at once, and he loved being with

people. it's a very different mix. charlie: what does she need to do, in your judgment, to appeal to your friends, wherever they may be, who have reservations about her having to do with trust, having to do with changing positions on trade, for example? marc: what she has to do is be true to herself. at the end of the day, there's nothing wrong with saying what you believe and saying, i disagree with you, here's what we are going to do. i think the issue everyone has with hillary is, they are trying to figure her out. i don't think it's that complicated. i think she will explain what she wants to do. and i think if people listen, hard, they will figure that out. to me, when i talk to her, it's much more, just tell everyone what you want to do. agree, that's fine. it's fine. not everyone has to agree with you. but if you believe in it, you are going to be the president, you do what you think is best for this country.

charlie: in this line of questioning, factor in barack obama. how is he different, as a politician, from her and from president clinton? marc: well, i think president clinton loves the politics. [laughter] both are very cerebral. both are exceptionally bright, but one loves the politics of being out there, whereas i think president obama views that more as, that's what i need to do, whereas i think president clinton, who loves that part. charlie: he loves being out there. marc: he will never be early to any event. he's always late. he's always there, and he will stay. he just loves talking to people. loves hearing stories. charlie: you have contributed to the clinton foundation. marc: yes. charlie: some people worry there may be something there, and that the trump people will really focus on everything they can find out, meaning whether there was some give-and-take, some

cause and effect, some -- marc: i think they should look at it. there was no give-and-take. i gave to the foundation, because i believed in what the foundation was doing. at the end of the day, people gave because they believed in it, and they gave because they believed in what president clinton was doing. the foundation did nothing wrong. i think there's always these questions, and at the end of the day, what the foundation did was help millions and millions of people, and i'm proud i gave to the foundation. charlie: in terms of the trust factor, how does she change that? she knows that's an issue for her. marc: i don't know how you change that. i really don't. i think people who know her absolutely trust her, and have a huge amount of faith. i don't know that because she has been around for a while, and there's always been negative attacks on her -- charlie: some argue, even the new york times, saying basically

it goes way back when, and she became very protective. marc: i think she is. she's a little more protective. charlie: she got to washington, and the whitewater investigation started. marc: everyone has been attacking her, since she came to washington. i think it's hard. i think people who know her will vouch for her. we have seen that today. you have seen that the last couple days. everyone talking about what a great person she is. and look, it's difficult. for a lot of people who don't know her. hopefully, as people get to know her, they will trust for more. charlie: tell me what you think she will do for the economy. marc: i think at the end of the day, what she will do is try to help small businesses. because that's who is going to re-create and get this economy growing,,, 2% 4%, 5%, through making small business loans, making small business loans, and helping people out who need

that. i think that's what she will end up doing. the other thing that will really help this economy greatly is reducing loans from 9% to 2% or 1%. why are people paying 9% when the government is borrowing at 1%? charlie: what about trade? people thought she would be, nafta was a strong component of president clinton's term in office. he was involved in an believed in that. now we look at nafta, was it a good idea or not a good idea? they look at the tpp. she even raises questions about it. where is she on trade? marc: she has to be for trade. charlie: you have to be pro-trade. marc: i think you do. because you live in an interconnected world, and to make believe that we don't as a country is just wrong. charlie: you can't be in isolation. if you're in isolation, you will not lead. marc: you will not lead. i think the u.s. has a moral responsibility to lead. that's really the question

that's out there. are we supposed to be that shining light? and i think we are. everybody wants to come live here in the united states. i always find it amazing that people who are in the united states complain about living here, and everybody else's dying to come into this country. there seems to be a huge disconnect with that . look, we have to end up being part of this world, and us pulling out, which is what donald trump wants us to do, just isn't going to work. i think we need to do a better job, and hopefully that's going to end up happening. charlie: why did you want to come to the country? how did you come? was it your father? marc: my mother, actually. my mother was a schoolteacher, and my mother thought we had to leave morocco, if we wanted to get a good education, if we wanted to succeed. you go to america. it took years. i became a naturalized citizen when i was 13. every foreigner is dying to come here. if you won the lottery and were born in the united states, it's great, but if you are not, you try to come here. think about it. somebody who came to this

country ends up working and becoming friends with somebody who was the ex- president of the united states. i don't think that some and you could have done in other countries. charlie: and managing billions of dollars as well. marc: and owning a basketball team. charlie: milwaukee bucks. was that a dream of years? marc: it really was. i played in college. i think everybody always says i love basketball teams. charlie: how about the knicks? [laughter] marc: that was never going to happen. he was never going to sell. i would have loved to, but that was never going to happen. charlie: is it because you played, that you wanted to own the team? marc: i played. i love basketball. i thought it was a phenomenal experience. i was involved in it my whole life. and then when i had the opportunity to why the milwaukee bucks, i did that about two years ago. charlie: so you go back and forth to milwaukee, or watch them on television? marc: i go back. i go to the games.

my son works in milwaukee. he's actually here, a delegate for the state of wisconsin. charlie: back to hillary, in terms of the trust element. what kind of cabinet do you think she would appoint? marc: that's an interesting question. i think it will be a diverse cabinet. i hope it will end up being people who are very, very good at their jobs. they're not political appointees. they end up being people who are really going to be able to make change, and fix things, which is part of the problem this country has right now. charlie: what's part of the problem? marc: you need to be able to fix things, turn things around, and have people who are going to be able to do that. charlie: would you like to serve in the government? marc: i think everybody would love to serve. i don't think i could, mainly because with the job that i have, i want to continue doing that. charlie: when she is on stage

tonight, it's the passing of a torch. marc: yes, it is. charlie: from the first african-american president to the first woman nominated to be president, and perhaps president. it's a great country, isn't it? marc: it's a phenomenal country, that you could end up seeing that. i wanted to be part of history. that's the reason i wanted to go. charlie: thank you for coming. great to have you. we will be right back. stay with us.

charlie: we conclude with democratic political strategist james carville and republican strategist kellyanne conway. thank you for coming. republican or democrat? has this been a good convention for democrats? kellyanne: it has been a decent convention for democrats, and the reason i say that is that it started out so rocky with the dnc e-mails. the next day, the bernie sanders protests. i don't think this is a convention hillary thought she would walk into, being the present of nominee for eight years since she lost the last time, but it got better as the week went on. there's been a lot of the strongest voices, some of the best in the democratic party have spoken, and the party was very into it. we will see if it moves any independent or undecided voters, but it has been a good convention for them, in that hillary quentin enters this week with really tough headwinds in terms of two thirds of americans find her to not be honest or trustworthy.

charlie: they say the same thing about donald trump. kellyanne: very different reasons. tied in some of the things from donald trump. i think this came at a really good time for her, and we will see how she makes her case tonight. charlie: jim? james: this is the best democrat convention i have ever seen. better than 1992. i mean, the quality of the speeches. charlie: better than '92? i hate to say that. it's the quality of the speeches, i mean, and the bravatas of the speakers has just been amazing, the whole convention. i was telling somebody tonight, if hillary clinton combivz the fifth best speech of the convention tonight. speech. be a great you are set up to succeed. who ever really gave a bad acceptance speech? sarah palin -- 2012. look at what it did.

if we remember, john mccain actually went ahead after the republican convention. i mean, i think this has been, just the whole thing, the quality of the speeches has been literally breathtaking. it's the difference between meryl streep and scott baio. [laughter] kellyanne: if that is what the bar for the next commander in chief should be -- wow. many of us are struck by conspicuous by its absences. you don't hear a lot about freedom. you don't hear a lot about -- charlie: john allen is speaking tonight. or lyanne: we can pick one two out of there, and i've seen the excerpts of hillary's speech tonight, and i'm struck by her talking directly to coal country. she needs to do that as a defensive tactic. earlier this year she went to west virginia and promised she would put the coal industry out of work, and i think the trump-pence team will take that

and drive it through the ohio, pennsylvania, indiana, michigan, the midwest, where there's a lot of steelworkers, a lot of coal miners, and a lot of people who appreciate those industries and those hard-working men and women who are offended. james: look, i don't think it will be a fight over west virginia here. kellyanne: what about putting industries out of business. i don't think it will turn red and california will turn -- i will take that. i think this has undeniably been, i think this party is united. i'm looking at the tweets from republicans, from rich lowry, eric erickson. (crosstalk) kellyanne: they were never trump people. james: this party is really united coming out of here, and you just hope -- charlie: speak to her point, a her point is a valid one. there is economic discontent, and donald trump will try to

take democrats, what used to be called reagan democrats, and get them on an economic argument to come over to his side. he will tell them of his virtue. james: and he will get -- most of the reagan democrats are not alive. long time ago, okay. he will do well, he will do better than mccain, better than romney did with non-college whites. he may not win college whites. he might be the first republican candidate in the history of polling to lose that demographic. kellyanne: or not. >> and they're getting, again -- cleechlt it's socially undesirable for many of them to say they are voting for donald trump, but they will feel more free to think this guy can win, so they can come out. people are looking for a reason to vote for donald trump and an excuse to vote against her. but if the polls are tight -- the she doesn't look like prohibbative winner, nate silver said there was an 83% chance that hillary would win, and this week, a remarkable turnaround.

charlie: we will come back to that point. let me just stay with, what is the basic argument between, on economic issues, having to do with the welfare of the middle class, between donald trump and hillary clinton? kellyanne: several things. if you listen to some of the speeches, i listened to a woman from ohio, who said how she and her husband worked three jobs, hardly see each other, and her kids are asleep when she gets home. that's the kind of speech you expect at an anti-incumbent convention when you are not asking for four more years of the type of economic relief woman has identified. trump's message is, you have not had a raise in a while, the cost of living is up. and i think the mistake that romney and mccain made in the past was jobs, job creators, the you didn't build that at tampa convention. you have to ask to the job holders, not the jobseekers or job creators.

they're sayingwe have jobs, but they are not secure, and we are still white knuckle paying the bills. and look at the non-tpp here. these are potential trump voters saying no tpp. james: there's a very distinct difference. donald trump thinks you can yank the country back to some day we had 20 years ago. hillary clinton, barack obama, bill clinton, joe biden, tim kaine, believe that you can forge a better future for the country. i don't think, i think his message to people is, there was something you had and we can go back and grab that. that's his slogan, i didn't make it up. it's make america great again. that's the difference in this election. do we want to yank ourselves back to something that in our minds we had, or forge a better future? and i think you'll hear a lot of that tonight. you heard a lot of that from president obama. you heard a lot of that coming from this podium. i think it has been a very

effective convention and that's it. charlie: here's what's interesting to me. a lot of this choice seems to be, the other person is so bad, you have got to, i am the least bad choice. james: i haven't heard that up here. charlie: i listen to a lot of it. donald trump, every speech has been attacking him, almost as unfit to be president. kellyanne: yes. james: nobody attacked john kerry in 2004? this is typical in a convention. charlie: the republican convention, you heard the worst things said about hillary clinton. rudy giuliani, the indictments. put her in prison? kellyanne: that is not my cup of tea at all. but i will say, there are clear choices. do you want the kind of change that bill clinton and james carville wanted in 1992? in -- obama

they are trying to make hillary clinton a change-maker, and nobody believes that. the problem is, she has been fighting for women and children for 30 years, and if you have millions of women and children in poverty, wage stagnation, you have your own speakers saying, i have three jobs and cannot make ends meet, where is the product, where is the success of hillary clinton having fought? james: i guess, i guess i'm not surprised that kellyanne is not impressed by the democratic argument. but what i am surprised by, people are astonished politics breaks out of a political convention. the idea that they are saying not nice things about the opponent. that's what these things do. charlie: so there's no difference in the level of attack? kellyanne: there is. it's not working. what's different is -- >> going to filibuster here on the charlie rose show. i think what you have seen here is a constant level of accomplished people talking

about how we can forge a better future in this country, and about how hillary clinton does that. what you heard in cleveland is a lot of c-plus people talking about yanking america back to a better day, making a country that in their mind used to exist. this train is moving forward. when this train leaves philadelphia, it's going toward the future. charlie: what kind of bump will come out of this convention? james: i think we will do well. i think we have had a very effective convention. honestly, deep down inside, i am very optimistic about this cycle. i think the big question is, republicans, there are so many of them, this will be a, daddy, what did you do he war? were you a trump, or did you go with the george wills of the world, the michael bloombergs of the world, the people who stood up to him. i think that's ben sasse, people like that. charlie: ted cruz. kellyanne: gentlemen, why are the polls exactly tied?

in fact, trump is ahead. what is different this cycle, you don't have parity in terms of the number of ads and expenditures by the two campaigns. that's was really remarkable, charlie. you had tens of millions, hundreds of millions of dollars spent against donald trump, and people are becoming impervious to it. the other important point, because elections are about the future, not the past, but hillary represents the past. i don't think the independent voters are buying. the tab bloids. charlie: is she talking about major issues? kellyanne: like what? where are the specifics? [cross talk] charlie: that is the central question raised. kellyanne: look at the 10-point veterans administration reform plan. you can certainly look at it and see if you think that's a good plan. charlie: why is the chamber of commerce against donald trump? kellyanne: because he is not their hand-picked candidate. they had five others ahead of him.

there is a lot of high-horsed sanctimony in the republican party right now. charlie: high-horsed sanctimony? kellyanne: absolutely. i'm sure you love it. but it's true. james: i like that. high horse sanctimony. kellyanne: i will tell you, it's a serious issue, because in the past the corrosive word in the republican party has been electability. he can win. he can't win. the democrats subscribe do that, they elevate, get people like bill clinton, barack obama, who they say can't win, and they win. it's time for us to do that. charlie: there is a structural advantage in the electoral map for hillary clinton, including the demographics of the ascendancy, they say. james: look, i wrote a book that said the democratic coalition has ascended. i have thought that for quite some time. there are actually more democrats in the country than republicans, and i think we come out of here tonight with a united democratic party.

charlie: thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

>> you are watching "bloomberg west." publican presidential nominee trump made his first public remarks since hillary clinton's acceptance speech last night. mr trump addressed a rally in colorado. mr. trump: i liked the republican convention better. i did. i liked it better. [cheers and applause] mr. trump: i thought we had a far more beautiful set, like not even a contest. how about the first night, they had no american flags up on the stage.