york police new department's commissioner bill bratton is here. the new york times described him as the most widely recognized face who reshaped the image of what a policeman could be. he will step down. chief james o'neill will succeed him. in bostons a big cop and rose to leave the police department and los angeles -- boston, los angeles and new york. he is known for his aggressive

efforts to reduce crime and heal tensions between minorities and police communities. he spoke in a city hall press conference. >> this is our goal. when you see a policeman, remember that he is your friend. that theye vision share appear and will carry forward. that is happening but it doesn't happen overnight. we have already seen the tide is a in that direction it challenging time for the police of america and new york. >> commissioner bratton has been a frequent guest on this program and i'm committees -- pleased to have him back. you just said this is a difficult time to be a police commissioner. so why leave? cmsr. bratton: it is time.

i received a good offer and my life i look forward to joining the company. the new york city police department is in very good shape at this time and i have worked hard over these years to put in place a line of succession so that my mayor, tilde blah zeal, eblasio,t have -- bill d would not have to reach outside the department. i had two recommendations. debt -- tucker, my first deputy commissioner. i had two people. i notified him on july 8 that i was planning to leave, made the decision, and i notify jimmy o'neill before the press conference. charlie: you expect that there

will be continuity and there will not be any changes in terms of the direction that you set? cmsr. bratton: no changes at all in the direction. the team around me are like-minded. everybody is on board the same vessel. charlie: talking about broken windows. what does that mean and why is it important to you? cmsr. bratton: broken windows refers to an article written in 1982 by the late jim wilson. the idea that if you don't pay attention to little things, they can grow into big things. in 1829, saidl, police exist to prevent crime and disorder. we start focusing on the disorder and the serious crime. we do not do a good job focusing

on that. success -- i my think it's been successful that i focus on both the miter thanks and the big things. graffiti, abandoned cars, things that people see every day. even in the most crime-ridden cities, most people are not victims of serious crime. charlie: it is an optic. comr. bratton: an optic that generates a feeling. the current controversy homeless people ineets, street every american city, is an optic. there is great concern about that. was inere near what it the 90's.

about minority communities? comr. bratton: the last couple years has seen a sentiment in many minority committees that broken windows was disproportionately being applied to them. the point that i make is, the disproportionate amount of time police spent in poor neighborhoods, often minority neighborhoods, is due to two things. the high crime rates there. also, the disproportionate amount of calls that we get. 311, 911, to come to those neighborhoods and assist. should we ignore those calls? you will only get 300 responses because we are doing 300 and these other neighborhoods. you go where the calls come from. the debate i have with those

advocating that this is disproportionate impact -- i did "npr" this morning and the issue started with targeting minority communities for quality of life. i took great offense. we do not target. we go with the calls come from. charlie: there is also the relationship between the communities in the police and neighborhoods. have you been able to do what you want to do? you have that challenges will take years to achieve. comr. bratton: let me speak to the city of new york. on the issue of crime we have climbed down 25 straight years. there. there on preparing the city against the act of terrorism.

they are creating a 500 person unit. there heavily equipped to deal with their terrorism issue. we did it here in london is now emulating that. more than we are doing here. the fourth area, which for 400 years has been a problem -- racial relations. originally, the slave catchers. with segregation, we and forced that. that is still the unresolved -- we enforced that. that is still the unresolved issue. charlie: now we have video. especially with police violence against individuals, it enhances it in some cases, it looks uncalled for. charlie: you use the term " uncalled for." we have a term, "it is lawful,

but it looks awful." any use of force looks awful. what we clearly are seeing, and some instances, police force is an appropriate. the vast majority is in response to people resisting arrest. in the state of new york, it is illegal to resist arrest, but the vast majority of videos i see of my officers are actions in which they are being resisted as they attempt to make an arrest. that problem seems to be increasing here and nationally. we are talking isolated instances, but it does lead to the question -- does the need to be training and sensitizing of police officials, even in new york city? charlie: we are going to base but -- cmsr. bratton: we are going to be spending tens of millions of

dollars on retraining the whole force. whole forcear the went through a three-day training period. this year it will focus on implicit bias. we will focus on police legitimacy, procedural justice, all the issues on the forefront of trying to resolve more successfully the issues of racial tension, minority concerns. charlie: define implicit bias. cmsr. bratton: implicit bias is a relatively new field of science. ehe idea is that all of us hav biases we might not recognize that are below the surface. sometimes that implicit bias may control actions that we take. in the area of race, there is an idea where we respond to a black differently than to a white. what we will try to do is teach

our officers that -- it's like a -- like original sin. we all have it. we can try to control it if we realize that we have it. it's the idea of changing. an unknown bad habit. charlie: what explains the case where it may be implicit bias, or something else, beyond somebody resisting arrest as we would come to understand it. it is uncalled for to shoot somebody walking away, is it not? charlie: some of that -- cmsr. bratton: some of the videos are clearly inappropriate. the one in south carolina where the gentleman was 30 feet from the officer when he fired half a dozen times. under any circumstances, that was inappropriate. illegal certainly. charlie: how about the garner case? cmsr. bratton: the garner case has not been result of the department. it has been resolved in the

criminal courts. it is being battled out between main justice in the eastern district here in new york. it is the case of mr. garner who succumbed to a potential chokehold. i cannot comment more because my -- successor will end up administratively making a decision if it was misconduct. that is on hold until the fence finish. nish.til the feds finsi charlie: are you fearful about what happened in dallas and baton rouge? cmsr. bratton: we continue to be fearful. that began here in new york city. two officers in my city were murdered in direct response to the garner case. legitimate travel from baltimore with the intent of killing

officers in a misguided response to the garner incident. we are aware and concerned about that. spent last month i just $7.5 million buying 20,000 ballistic helmets and 6000 heavy-duty ballistic vests that officers would wear to stop a rifle round from an ar-15. we are providing phenomenal amounts of training. unfortunately that is the state of american policing in terms of the terrorist threat that we have to be prepared. the potential for what we saw in dallas and baton rouge. turning back to terrorism.

issue thet troubling idea of the lone wolf because there is no connection to intelligence? in 2014, we were concerned about mass shooting lone wolves. we saw that in aurora, colorado. columbine was the first. , theyhe growth of isis -- social media to encourage we have three terms that james comey uses. a directed attack, in which they send agents out of syria. an enabled attack in which they give instructions to an individual. froman inspired attack, social media, grab a knife, get a car. we have seen people respond to that.

that inspired act is the most difficult. how do you identify and list you see them on social media? this is the see something, say something. if you see somebody becoming radicalized or acting strangely, reported. charlie: we have access to the computer files of people who do these things they are often killed in the act of terrorism. what are we learning? is there a profile? there is no one consistent profile. the individual who spontaneously attacked by uniformed police officers standing on the corner with a hatchet, almost killing one of them, before he was killed. that individual started focused sites,computer, on black if you will, in terms of black liberation sites. about a month before the attack,

he switched over to the isis, al qaeda sites. his motivation went from one of race to one of religion. his circumstance is different than somebody else's. there is probably not a constant theme, other than the fact that journalists is the term that they engage in these acts because they want to feel empowered, they want to feel they belong to something. it is a manifestation of valor. these are people who are searching for an identity, searching for a cause. if it is a commonality, it is those three themes. there is a federal investigation of corruption in the department. what is that about and how big a worry is it? cmsr. bratton: there are two separate investigations at the same time.

we are collaborating very closely, my internal affairs division with the agency. the one investigation and falls illegal sale of gun licenses by my licensing unit. that has been very contained. we have the identification of the individuals involved and the people who obtained permits inappropriately. the second is of a different nature in which a number of officers including senior officers -- it has been alleged that some of the more distributive in police favors in exchange for trips or access to prostitutes. a number of others, the activity, while inappropriate,

has not risen to the level of criminal indictment or arrest. a number of others have retired. they are losing upwards of $250,000 to $500,000 in back pay. others that remain will be subjected -- subjected to administrative charges for inappropriate conduct. as of now, we have four individuals who have been arrested. retired, of 10 have another half-dozen are under active investigation. charlie: you have been a high-profile police commissioner. ray kelly was a high-profile police commissioner. is that helpful? cmsr. bratton: in new york city you cannot help but be high-profile. that is the reality. if you are not comfortable with the media, you do not want to be a new york city police commissioner. you have to sit and talk with a charlie rose.

you have to get in front of the 200 police cameras when there is a major incident. you have to deal with tabloids constantly hoping to put the department on the front page. often it is good news, but not always. i have to chuckle when people accuse myself or predecessors as being high profile. it comes with the job. charlie: you are suggesting that commissioner o'neill will be as high profile as you and ray kelly, since a because it goes with the job? cmsr. bratton: different personality. o'neill has been all over the news, all the time. unconsciously pushing them out. i don't want -- i am consciously pushing them out. i don't want one face to be the face of the department. . it is a team. jimmy has handled a lot of these press conferences and interviews.

i like the give-and-take. charlie: when you took this job, you came in and john miller came in. when you took the job, what did you hope to accomplish? cmsr. bratton: there were four areas. dealing with crime. to show that crime could continue to go down. charlie: and it has. cmsr. bratton: and it will continue to do. and to deal with that controversy over stop and frisk. my view was the department was doing too much. we could do less and keep crime going down. charlie: do less stop and frisk? cmsr. bratton: in other words more precision policing. this year we did about 15,000.

arrestoy 5% result in an -- about 25% result in an arrest meaning we are targeting to write people -- right people most of the time. bringing police and community together with new ways of policing. the other area was technology. 21st century policing is all about technology. i'm blessed in a city that has a trait economy. -- great economy. a mayor who gave me almost $2 billion to spend on the nypd. charlie: and you added 1300 officers. cmsr. bratton: we also added the equivalent of almost 1000 more because we have been hiring civilians. we hired 700 cadets who will eventually become officers. charlie: let's talk about your

relationship with bill de blasio. did you know him well when you took the job? cmsr. bratton: i did not. i met him along with several candidates in the run up to 2013. i advised them. i was fortunate enough that he gave me a second bite of the apple -- the second bite of the big apple. over these last years, i have developed profound respect for his support and me and this department. my greatest respect as i go out the door is that he is not respected or appreciated for that. charlie: why do you think that it is? cmsr. bratton: i wish that i knew. the bill de blasio that i know cares about his cops. has, hehe resources he has been extraordinarily generous to us. the most modern equipment in american policing. this guy that i know, the guy who is unintrusive into

management of the department. charlie: if you don't know, who knows? you know the police, you know him, and you know the community. cmsr. bratton: you and i travel in some of the same social circles. we hear it all the time. sometimes these are wealthy people and i say, what has he done to you? crime is down. your taxes have not gone up. your social status hasn't changed. why this visceral dislike? i cannot figure it out. the individual i have had the privilege of working with, who has given me such responsibility and such authority, has resulted in my leaving with my record intact. having significant change on american policing. charlie: and setting into motion a seamless continuity change. cmsr. bratton: that very seldom happens. it happened in l.a.. charlie: generally when you make a choice, other people leave because the future is not there. he understood the

difficulty of running the nypd. a stranger coming and would take a year up to speed. why interrupt the momentum with a stranger when you have several people very capable of keeping this moving without interruption? blasio, was bill de a moment when he came to speak at a funeral and police turned their backs on him. charlie: that is of -- cmsr. bratton: that is unfortunate. i spoke out about that. it was an awful time in the city's history. an awful time in my years in the business. i regret the actions of new york city police officers. it was inappropriate. particularly at a funeral. charlie: why did they do it? cmsr. bratton: it was a significant dislike in the rank-and-file for this man. charlie: but why? on the partdislike

of the rank-and-file of the nypd. you are the commissioner. it is your job to explain to your rank-and-file. cmsr. bratton: my job in part is to keep crime going down, to keep the city safe. charlie: in addition to that, your job is also -- i would assume some sense of motivating, of being a voice for the people who work for you, and at the same time some sense of communicating to them what you see as the reality. cmsr. bratton: i think i have been a very active voice on their behalf. income indicating the response of this mayor to their needs. a multi-year contract that is unresolved. a source of great resentment to the leaders of the union. i have done a very good job, i think, of dealing with the deck that i was dealt. with a mayor whom the police do not like for a variety of reasons which i do not fully understand.

it had to do principally with comments that the mayor made. he is in a mixed-race marriage, he has mixed-race children, and he made a comment at the time. we were dealing with a horrific murder of the two detectives. he said the advice he gives to his son about dealing with police. every african-american i have dealt with, including many whites, talk about advising the children when dealing with police which is to do certain things. charlie: some call it the talk. cmsr. bratton: if you will. every african-american whether -ers, or those in the church basement. some in the union took offense at that comment because of the time it was being made, when we were still in the process of grieving and burying the two officers who had been murdered. the comment from the union

resident was that the mayor had blood on his hands. responsive to their union leadership. thatresponded to allegation in a way that i thought was very inappropriate. turning their back on this well-intended individual, in terms of these instructions to his son, and his concerns to the new york city police officers. there is a disconnect. one of the frustrations i have, that jimmy will need to try to address, is the gulf that exists the twin my mayor and m -- between my mayor and my cops. we have been able to move forward, in spite of that, with continued reduction in crime and reduction of complaints against my officers. what is not occurring is respect for the mayor of the city.

charlie: two last questions. legacy. will it be what you have done to reduce crime or will it be what you had to deal with when you came here with your second term in the big apple in terms of reform? cmsr. bratton: i will leave the legacy to the historians. as we know, it is usually best determined at a distance. in terms of my own sense of self, i think i have been able to play a critical role in american policing over these last 45 years in helping to move of communitybrace policing, an embrace of a better use of technology, an embrace of the principles. if you read them, they are more appropriate today than back then. i think i played a significant role along with jack maple and

the cops in the 1990's -- charlie: we all remove or jack maple. cmsr. bratton: showing -- we all remember jack maple. cmsr. bratton: showing that something could be done for crime. in 1989, he made a comment. i was just coming in to new york at the time. when asked about crime, he made a, which was very unusual for the governor. he said, maybe this is as good as it gets. 2200 murders on the streets of new york. what we proof was, police count, cops matter. how do they count and how do they matter? we believe we can do something about crime and we did it. sociologists were saying it could not be done. that police would have no impact on crime. we had a change. racism, poverty, the community.

whether it begins with my personality or what, begins with optimism. you can do something. in the night and it is, we could do anything about crime. we had given0's, up, thought we could do anything about crime. i did not. it was enabled by leadership, but it was also enabled by smart and dedicated people thinking about the issue in a new way. we did it and continue to do it. 25 years later, it is still going down. charlie: when you came to me you said, i love public service. that is the reason i'm doing it. you are leaving public service.

you are leaving to work for a private advisory firm, which has huge clients and corporations in the face contemporary problems beyond making a profit. having to do with terrorism, having to do with loan shooters, having to do with a range of issues. a whole range of new problems. whatever the advisory firm does, you will be heading up a risk group. cmsr. bratton: that's right. charlie: why was this the place that you chose to go. ?eyond th beyond the money, to leave what was so in your blood. public life. you had to find your repeat -- you had defined europe location. -- you had defined your reputat ion. cmsr. bratton: two things happened in this past year. my father passed away after analyst. if the illness had continued, i

would have been insignificant financial difficulty trying to arrange for the best of care for him. i am not a person of means. i work in the public sector most of my life. i have several relatively small pensions from those assignments. to take this job, i was giving up a significant seven-figure income. years,e last several this job has cost me $1 million per year. when say -- when faced with my dad's situation, i realize how fragile my financial situation wife, but me and my also my extended family. i want to be able to take care of my grandkids, their college needs. my kids. i have to leave something i love into something that will also be

interesting and challenging, but financially able to allow me to have a degree of comfort that i cannot have in the public sector. i can take care of my wife and age, we go into an older but i can also take care of my grandkids in terms of hundred thousand dollars per year college tuition. taking skills i have acquired into new environments that i will find interesting. people.inarily talented i will still stay aware. if asked for advice we will be happy to give that. charlie: thank you for coming. breton retiring after -- bratton retiring after

45 years of police service, beginning in 1970. we will be right back. ♪

charlie: donald trump's presidential campaign is in the midst of one of its most difficult challenges. the candidate has spent the last five days reeling from the candidate's remarks he made about the family of a soldier

killed 12 years ago. on tuesday, and member of congress made a comment to publicly support hillary condon. meg whitman -- hillary clinton. meg whitman situate actively campaign for clinton's candidacy. moodet me begin with the in washington and around the country as you talk to republicans in both places. republicans more think that these last five days are seminal moments. we have had a lot of near fatal times for donald trump. this, they believe, is different. it really may be the guns of august. taking on a gold star family, the tasteless heart episode the other day -- the purple heart episode the other day, criticizing paul ryan and john mccain. donald trump is beyond repair.

these are not distractions, this is him. that hillary clinton got from the convention may be permanent and growing. charlie: what can they do? al: there is very little that they can do. there are conversations which jonathan karl first podcast about what happens if trump gets out. i think the odds against that are 95%. talking are already about the rules they have to apply for the rnc and who they would turn to which is a sign of their desperation. there is nothing they can do to force him out. charlie: they have no influence on him? al: i don't know who has influence on him. i don't think these people i'm talking to have influence. the congressional and party leaders don't have any influence. i doubt that the paul manafort's of the world have any influence. charlie: even though they are at the center of the storm, they have no ability to change his

mind or suggest alternatives? al: i think somebody would have said to him, if they could get through, three or four days ago, you don't want to have a four-day battle with a gold star family. cut your losses, apologize, and get out. that is not what donald trump does. i think they would have said, don't attack paul ryan, john mccain and kelly are you -- kelly ayotte. gingrich, whoewt is good about having his finger in the wind said his campaign is being self-destructive and it has to get back on course. i think this is the course. charlie: it has to do with the essence of who donald trump is and how he thinks he succeeded so far. both in life and politics? al: yeah. he is 70 years old. he thinks it has worked for him very well. there is a dispute about how wealthy he is, but he is not on

food stamps. he got the nomination. and he beat a big field. the problem with that self-analysis of trump is he does have fervent support among 30%-40% of the public, but every day he seems to alienate those others. richard hanna, the congressman from new york, republican, will not be the first office-holder to say they will vote for hillary clinton. i think that there will be a slew of other ceos, in addition to meg whitman, mark cuban this high-ranking for national security officials to say it is a bridge too far. charlie: there is also this. john mccain apollo ryan -- and paul ryan have primaries. difficult for john mccain, but i assume paul ryan will win easily. donald trump has refused to endorse them. that seems beyond the pale in

terms of politics or need. it is not having a battle or feud with a family. these are people who have endorsed him. al: it puts them in a terrible dilemma. kelly ayotte in new hampshire has a primary one month from now. it makes it very difficult for john mccain or the senator from new hampshire to break ranks totally. advisors to their those republicans saying, he is giving you an opportunity. you can say he is not for us and we are not for him. when a have a primary, and the right is a strong as it is in those areas, that is some thing they cannot do. john mccain -- whatever your politics, it would be a great tragedy if john mccain loses his last race because of donald trump, a man who is the antithesis of everything mccain is. that is the way it is looking. charlie: and who had his own feud with trump.

al: yeah. charlie: there is no one to go to donald trump and say, please stop. there is nobody likely to be able to lead a republican revolution against trump at this stage? al: the only people who might have influence, whether they would exercise it or bring it to bear would be his children. that is not to say for a moment that they would say, you have to get out. i don't think there is any other politician who can come close to doing that. many he has disassociated himself with. ryan cannot go there, mitt romney cannot go there, jeb bush cannot go there. so suddenly, when he said these last couple days that the election is rigged. that is a perplexing statement. the only way that makes sense is if you want to set the predicate saying it is

illegitimate, that is why i lost. or the unlikely event he decides, i'm getting out because it is rigged. that is what these republicans are i happen talking to say, what do we do then? they basically say there is no good choice. there is no way that we win in the unlikely event that occurs, but it might be better than having him. charlie: so what might they do in the event that occurs? al: it all goes to the rnc. it is something called rule nine. i will not bore you with it. the 168 members would have to get together, from the rnc. it is not clear what rules they are bound by and they would have to pick some money to fill in. the options would be three or four. mitt romney would drive the trump people crazy. ted cruz, very popular with

elements of the party. john kasich who would be the m ost electable. no good options. charlie: and no paul ryan? al: i think ryan would drive the trump people as crazy as mitt romney. >> what about the president of the united states saying the candidate of the republican party is not fit to be president? al: i don't think republicans like that because they think that will make some hard-core conservatives dig in all the more. they are against anything that obama says. in that sense, it was selfish. it is what a lot of people say. i have had republicans and democrats say, in 2000, i didn't think that w was qualified to be president. it did not worry me for the sake of the country. people on the other side say, in

2008, i thought that obama lacked the requisite experience but i did not worry about the country. there are serious people now who say, the possibility of donald trump in the white house worries them about the country. i have never heard that before. charlie: meg whitman, a republican who ran for governor of california said, he is a dishonest demagogue. demagogue. al: you cannot get much tougher than that. she is not alone. norm coleman, the former senator from minnesota said the same thing. mccainly, i'm sure john says things a lot tougher, maybe a lot earthier than meg whitman. i think there will be others who say it too. what can trump do? what he could do is what the mitch mcconnells and paul

ryans wanted to do. get back to the issues. hillary clinton hasn't had a great four or five days. she had a mediocre interview last weekend. there are reports that syria and cash transfers to the iranians. those are all issues that would hurt her if donald trump or not dominating the news by attacking goldstar mothers and fathers. charlie: there are also difficulties with obamacare. all caps of issues the republicans would be talking about. they are not because they are talking about the goldstar family. al: that's what drives it. the notion that this is the establishment. of republicanot say, this is an election that matters. one of those issues is not to attack a gold star mother and father. charlie: at the same time, there are those people who say, we do not know how big the movement is

that donald trump has tapped into. how large it is, how wide it is, how deep it is. can donald trump expect to do better than we might assume within the constituency he has? al: that is a fervent constituency. we learned that in the primaries. he said one time, if i shot someone on fifth avenue, i would not lose any votes. among that fervent following, i think that is true. 30%-40% who will be with him no matter what. the problem is, you do not win an election with 40%. it is hard to see how what he is megg will appeal to those whitman-type gop+++

charlie: joining me now from washington, bob costa of "the washington post. of where you idea think this campaign is as it concerns donald trump. bob: the khan family represent

something unprecedented. trump has a full public opponent that is unusual for trump. this is a family that is a goldstar family. i was with them in washington. they do not trouble with handlers. it is presenting trump with fresh challenges about how to act with the nominee. but this is hotly debated especially within the republican party. we have been watching donald trump for over a year have these controversies bubble up almost daily. he seems to be competitive. , these of the wind political winds sweeping the country, populism for change, he remains competitive. >> it's not just the khan family, it's warren buffett, it is a range of people saying not fit.

a range of people saying at long last. that kind of thing. it seems to me that there is a coming together. some asking how strong is the -- so i am asking how strong is the convergence of these things? bob: it is strong. the democrats have got a bit of a bounce. at the heart of this campaign is not an ideological project. he is not making an argument in a political way. ais is an isolated candidate, defiant candidate, who operates without the advice of advisors. he has advisors like paul manafort, but this is somebody met -- navigating the political terrain on his own. that has made it a strange situation for his party. this is one person dominating and deciding moment by moment. nejra: does he -- charlie: does he ask questions? does he say, this is going to go

far? sometimes, you see him responding, and the khan family is a perfect example of that. in the beginning he did not talk about the heroics of the son, an american hero. he came to that. he is now trying to explain and othere ukraine, issues. bob: there are so many issues it is a most hard to keep track of every new controversy for the trump campaign. he continues to move forward. when a trump deals with this is publicly. one of the things i have always found on trump is that there are not a lot of backroom conversations. the traditional campaign where you would have memos and different strategy meetings. trump deals with things publicly and sometimes people close to him do not hear about what he is thinking until he says it on a

rally. there always traveling or always on his 26th floor office, operating, thinking, watching television and reacting. going on the cycle where he thinks his instincts can propel him forward. say, andi hear him you you have watched him as long as any good reporter, you have not seen donald trump change. he has accumulated victories. he had a convention in which he made a 70 minute speech, but you have not seen him change? he is the person operating on the same behavior that you saw from the beginning? bob: he is very resistant to change. he is not somebody who would like to change at all. this is the disappointment that cascades throughout the republican party. there was always the hope that he could he packaged into something that is a little bit more appealing. republicans have made him the nominee and they do not know how

to deal with it. it is very telling how speaker ryan and leader mcconnell are dealing with the fallouts from the khans. they want to distance themselves but are not rescinding their endorsement. it is against they are not comfortable doing. charlie: at the same time there is a concern about, if worse comes to worst, the senate will he affected and the house may be affected. bob: that is a real conversation here in washington. i was on capitol hill this morning and ran into republicans. they say, if trump continues down this path of operating alone and welcoming controversy rather than trying to comment. tangling with controversy and opponents the campaign should not have as opponents, than when does the party starter break away from trump? republicans to not want to entertain that publicly right now. everyone is issuing the statement saying they are with

trump in spirit but do not want to support trump. it is getting to a situation that is out there. trump came out with a tweet monday supporting paul ryan's primary challenge. paul ryan has a primary speaker. reiner stuck with trump, but the camp -- ryan is stuck with trump but until that trump is frustrated with ryan and that he is not full throated in his support. wideie: how deep and how hashe movement that trump accepted as his reason for being? bob: it is wider than any party. it includes bernie sanders supporters and some libertarians. the most important voter is the previously disengaged voter. they are almost nonpartisan, but they have given up not just on the political process, but they have disengaged from civic society.

the do not really follow politics. trump has lit a fire to have them come back to the process, come back to civic life. if that is a coherent voting block, then trump will have a shot in november. that is a huge block. there is so much of this country that rarely, if ever, votes. for some reason they are coming to the polls in drove and that could change everything. charlie: what is your best evidence that trump can pull that off? bob: it is not based on his political organization or his strategy. it is based on the times and the expansion of that movement. the base and feel happy about how they are living in america, to feel better about their lives or their children's lives. it cuts across party lines. everywhere that i go, people are frustrated with the country at large.

trump may be the benefit of that. making anentirely overture to them in a straightforward way. he is a symbol of somebody who interloper.er, an charlie: thank you for joining us. thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

>> with all due respect to joe boss, isift for his only the second best birthday gift ever in american history. ♪ boss, is only the second happy birthday ♪ ♪ >> tonight on a special all-new episode, trump dodging, 2.0. a new national srv