announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: david brooks is here, a columnist for "the new york times." will bed to character" released in paperback in september. he has been writing about the presidential election and the unprecedented candidacy of donald trump. 50 republican former national security official signed a letter warning trump would be the most reckless president in american history. senator susan collins also announced she would not vote for trump. i am pleased to have them here to talk about that and many

other things. welcome. david: good to be back at this table. nowlie: you spend your time trying to make sense of this campaign. what sense if you made of it? david: donald trump has given me a reason to live. dovetailing away from politics for a few years but he brings it right back. i spent the first part of this year writing 6 million columns on why he would not get the republican nomination. inaugurated,ll be coming up pennsylvania avenue, i will be writing a column somewhere -- so, then the last five months out in america tried to figure out why i got it wrong. there is a lot of dislocation. there is a lot of loss of dignity and opiate use. there is so much out there. charlie: so much opiate use to somehow relieve the pain of economic discontent, of broken families. david: everything is indivisible. there is a lot of economic loss,

but it is indivisible from a loss of pride. it used to be possible to say -- i may not be the richest or most famous person, but people could count on me. i have dignity, i do my job. charlie: i'm a good father. david: a lot of people have lost that dignity code. and that becomes a crisis of and self-worth. and then there is the sense that everyone is giving me the shaft. my employer, the job-training program gave me the shaft. no trust. charlie: everything i depended on has let me down. largersome of it, to a degree than i anticipated, a lot of it is the reality tv consumer culture, that's undermined the ethos of working-class dignity was an ethos that was a most anti-capitalist. you did not have to be the richest but it was about a code of responsibility. somehow the celebrit-ification

of reality tv has given the impression if you're going to have dignity, have the celebrities go up really fast. the idea of working your way through and being a respectable member of society, that ethos away.ne we have got this crisis of status and mixed in with economics which is mixed in with family breakdown and a loss of solidarity and so many people falling to the cracks. charlie: if you are feeling all of that, you are looking for what? david: first of all, you're looking for a sense of tribal identity. and if everybody wants a good book there is a new book called " hillbilly elegy." from kentucky, move to ohio. he describes the intense tribalism. there are families there, within the family in my be totally screwed up. but if anyone outside attack the family, daeteath to them. that intense sense of tribal, we

take care of our own. i had a mentioned a column couple weeks ago that bruce springsteen has this song called "we take care of our own." in the verses it sounds patriotic. in the other part of the song, it sounds racist. but we do not take care of people not like our own. a lot of people with this atmosphere of distrust, this atmosphere of crisis, or solitary, they are pulling in. mikecharlie: they want to be wih their own. david: the suspicion is the outsiders are not playing by the rules. the other thing we are saying within the communities is donald trump's voters are making more than $70,000 a year. they are not poor. they are the richer people in poor places. so, a lot of them are saying, i became an accountant. i played by the rules, i paid my mortgage. all these people did not do that we are giving them benefits. i am going to find somebody that

is going to fix that problem. the responsible people are not getting rewarded. we are getting the shaft and everyone else is getting the benefit. charlie: why donald trump? david: a, he appeals to masculinity. he appeals to the sense of closed-ness, the global economy is hostile and the p.c. thing is real, he speaks in a different way. i had a woman i ran into a woman in western pennsylvania, and she was going to a memorial service for her mom who died. she was relieved to she would not have to speak and she said to me i'm relieved. we are not word people. so that resonate, in this modern society, information age, it pays to be a word person. if you are feel your are not one , society isple rigged against you. if you find dignity in working with your hands. the status system is rigged against you. here comes donald trump who

burst in these short sentences, extremely strong, extremely masculine and has content for people like me who are word people. so, suddenly, -- the other thing, the final thing he said is they're not naive. they see he shoots his mouth out, he lies. but they say, all things considered, i'm still going to be for this guy, because at least he is change. and aerstands nation, lot of those people do not understand how much pride i get in my own life from being attached united states of america. charlie: has he also, he comes to them and said i'm a winner. david: when i see him, i see fear. like the republican speech. a lot of people see optimism, make america great again, success, i'm a winner. and the other thing, -- and candidatesll the

having crossed the basic threshold, psychology threshold to do the job of presidency. uncle dukakis, walter mondale, i see trump as a morallyigure who's outrageous and outside the official. most of the people who support him, they don't see that. clinton has pluses and minuses. trump has pluses and minuses. they are in the same ballpark. this unique figure -- that is not the person they see. some republican members of congress think that way. the's so funny in republican convention, you would be in the hallway and run into a senator and they would shuffle over with their embarrassed look and they are doing the trump support thing. they always have a defensive preemptive comment. i think it will work out ok. the some taxes, please like me. -- the subtext is, please like

me. they have all of these defense mechanisms. i think over the last two weeks, donald trump has hallowed out the ground from which they walk. the paul ryans who say i have discussed for trump but i still like trump the person. deposition is being destroyed by trump himself. his actions are so outrageous, and some point you have to say no, it is the guy. charlie: are you saying this is a moral choice? david: in a recent column i used psychological language about trump. earlier, i talked about the traits o narcissism andf lookig at the speech patterns were fascinating to me. and there's the psychological concept called the flight of ideas. a person who suffers from this is related to a manic state. and have anr a word, association. patternsrump's speech

to a robin williams monologue instead putting in insult instead of jokes. bing, bing. i felt a little queasy doing public psychoanalysis of this guy, but that is in part because our language has become so demoralized, it's hard for me to do mroal analysis -- moral analysis, at root i have a moral objection to the guy. lying that much is wrong. not having basic empathy for mrs. kahn or a baby at a rally or for anybody is wrong. we trymoral wrong, but not to use these moral categories because it seems all fresh is. to be honest, my objections are more moral. charlie: do you think for those of publicans, people have written this, mike morrell set of this table last night he had to speak out because he thought not to speak out was in a

moralwas not to be as as you had to be at this time. david: a mccarthy moment. charlie: where are you? david: you will be remembered. the sense i had if you're not in revolt, you are in cahoots. ado think you have to, for political office, it a tough hencebut i think years this will be remembered. and when your grandkids think about you, they'll remember this moment. charlie: does he remind you of anyone? david: the berlusconi references are a bit jermaine. -- germaine. the putin references are less germaine. in distinct enough putin, putin has a plan and self-discipline and this tragedy -- a strategy. hasnt't think trump thoswe things. to go into the verbiage, it

always comes back to himself. if he has to utter more than eight word sentence, it links back to self. my interpretation of that, we have this debate in the psychological debate -- are narcissists insecure in promoting themselves or super secure? a better distinction are are they fragile or not? you can be high selfis esteem but externally fragile. charlie: he is fragile. outd: the need to lash suggest fragility. it does not suggests security. i once watched your show years ago and you had a bunch of iraq veterans, the only one i know is zach -- at the table. charlie: this was about falluja. david: their voices were so quiet because they had been to something, they did not need to prove anything to anybody. and that is the opposite of donald trump, his voice does not

have that self-assured quietness i know who i m. am. charlie: what are the moral failures? david: have you got an hour or two? bigotry. bigotry -- the sins of a sins of a couple. when he wants to ban all muslims, that is the dictionary definition of that. charlie: somebody said, this is an opening bid for him everything for him is, i will start here, but i will end up here. don't make a moral judgment of me because i were start. make a moral judgment where i end. david: that argument is asking us to suspend morality and reduce everything to a cash nexus. charlie: i'm asking for insight.

he sees in the world, in a sense, that is the world he has lived. the as what "the art of deal" is about. david: one of the best clinton ads makes clear, he pollutes the atmosphere in which we race our kids. charlie: -- two people are the most powerful positions, with in august and phones, not only about our lives but also about our future. -- with enormous influence. charliedavid: it is important te distinction contempt you might .ave for trump he is the wrong answer to the right question. they are right to want something different. and he has the only thing they have got. charlie: my question, is he the only one could have filled their expectation?

was there something about reality television the became be part of reality for so many people? a small, i grew up in town in north carolina. and go back there. and understand some of the frustration because it is an area in which the economy has gone to other places -- it is gone to asia for textiles and gone away because of tobacco. there are people looking for places to find what they believe ouhght to be what their parents had. david: i think there could have been and will be another possibility. one of the debates we are having is between globalists who want free trade and ethnic nationalists like trump. we're having this where debate -- charlie: the open-close to the? david: but america already strong to this problem. -- solve this problem. we had a strong nationalist based on the idea we are universal country and everyone could come here as long as they

assimilated. alexander hamilton and theodore roosevelt were fervently patriotic, and touching that pride is so important for the people in north carolina or the people in west virginia, because especially go to these places, and maybe everywhere in america, you cannot go five minutes without talking about the local sports team. there is a lot of collective dignity you get from the pittsburgh pirates or the west virginia team or whatever. the footballer college. -- football or college. then there is also the national pride. that had to be played upon. and it has not been. coming up with a new and better form of nationalism, better than trump, which goes back to theodore roosevelt -- he was partly patriotic with a strong sense of masculinity where men had a role to play in society. and but attachment to an encompassing embrace of a lot of people coming here as long as they assimilate and play by the rules, that kind of nationalism

could appeal both to people who want free trade and to people who are hurting in wherever in new mexico. ♪

charlie: john mccain -- david: john mccain in 2000 was almost going to be a teddy roosevelt canada. rudy giuliani seem to be.

than they get in the clutches of the republican orthodoxy, and they decide we cannot let government do anything because if you, the, my shorthand for american politics is that we have one liberal movement, using government to enhance the quality and we have a conservative movement to -- charlie: to and has an equality. - in equality. david: the conservative movement to enhance more freedom. in american history, there has been a third movement which was hamilton, the weak party, the rly republican party up to which was using limited but energetic government to enhance social mobilityr,. y. charlie: that is the part you want to see? david: there are six of us who still believe in a. the whig party. for a republican to embrace it, they would have to say we are going to create early childhood programs and create new jobs and create infrastructure programs. we ar goinge to use government

to help people become better capitalistss. . bhut we are not going to interferes as much as the progressives want us to do. charlie: in one of the columns you said, the debate of the size and role of government is not as important as time as it is the open or closed nature. david: to trade, to the movement of people, to ideas. the great thing about america, unlike european nationalism is that our nationalism was open . we believed that america was the last best hope of earth precisely because everyone could as one as they signed on to our culture and civilization. we have lost that sense of unifying -- charlie: innovation and creativity. our openness to ideas, people, and opportunity. david: and it was a certain mentality that first --settlers came from europe and they saw eese so big it took

45 minutes to take off. and they saw oysters and clams so big than they had ever seen to it and they had two thoughts, that go'ds plans for humanity would be completed and it would get rich in the process. that created this moral materialism, this energy. and they noticed as the settlers were moving west through ohio and through north carolina, they would find a perfectly good valley, but then he would keep going because they assumed there were something better over the next ridge. there is always just something better. that's what, when people around the world look at america, that is what they look at, that sense of future orientation, seeing the present from the vantage point of the future. charlie: are we today more that way than any other country on earth? david: i still think soap for all the doom and gloom, i would still want to be us than anybody else spirit we have a government problem. politics and leadership became a profession rather than a location. charlie: it did. for life. david: abraham lincoln was, had general:. and he wanted mcclellan to be more aggressive. as a general.

so he goes to mcclellan's house. and he waits in the living room. you imagine the president going to a general's house and sitting in the liberal. in the butler says, general inclellan will be down a few minutes. and then the butler comes back and says, general mcclellan has decided to retire and go to bed. he will see you later. can you imagine stiffing the president of the united states in your own house? john hay, you must be outrage. lincoln said, no, i'm just trying to get the job done. to be humble about, in the face, not to put personal status -- to say, whatever i have to do to get this guy to be a better general i'll do it. charlie: what i love about lincoln's he said to mcclellan either you or the army -- i'll get somebody else. david: i've been thinking about what this says about the whole culture and those of us in the elite media. i think we have to come over individualized and not as community oriented as we should be. we have become too utilitarian

and not as moral as we should be. we have become not as spiritual as we should be. so, the culture has sort of shifted away from certain things that really undergird it. thosee: if in fact one of two candidates would talk about this guy is, do you think they would hit a resident? david: totally. i wrote this book that came out and it was about morality and love and all these mushy things. charlie: is it the one in which you talk about how the eulogy is more important than the resume. david: i talk about value suffering and how -- i talk a lot about love. tour, sometimes you are brought into a conference on and there's a budget of middle-aged white guys in boring suits. and they have been talking about third quarter results for the past three days in this conference on. i'm about to walk in there and talk about george elliott's thought life and her deep

trauma and tears. i walk into this audience that is the most emotionally avoidance -- this is not going to go well. when you start to talk about a life deeply led the way george eliot lifted or dorothy day, aey lock in, and there's quality of silence there i'd never heard in my speaking career. and that's because people are so hungry to at least have a forum to think about the things that matter most to them. they know what is important that they do not have the words and no one is talking to them in those terms the way martin luther king used to. so, there's this void in the public space. i think obama did as well as could be expected. if our politicians could talk to that, i think there would be a resident. onance. people are so hungry for uplift, for someone to name something that inspires and uplifts.

clinton is so walled off and --mp us his own weird charlie: that is part of the reason why michelle obama's speech was the most well-received. david: it was also about -- charlie: it was not political. it was about family, my children. david: and was also about the moral nature of the universe, the arc of justice -- the arc of history bends toward justice. its contains the seeds of own destruction. there was a profound -- and this comes from martin luther king, a profound optimism that the universe is structured toward the good. and weather it is religious faith or whatever you want to put it, there was an eloquent optimism undergirding her speech which was uplifting. and suddenly better reason to look at a public person and feel good about where things were going. there were a lot of good

speeches at the democratic convention, cory booker. biden's was gorgeous and barack obama's also. charlie: who meet your test? does hillary clinton measure against all the days we talked about this is table? david: she has all her life and secretive and insular and self-destructive. there was never an opening up turst. when you cover enough political campaigns, you see some speakers, bill clinton,, they fall onto the audience and they are willing to fall onto them. if you fall onto the audience, the audience will hold you up. it is like at a rock concert where the artist falls and the artist will hold them up. charlie: heloolo, bruce springsteen. david: if you fullback, they will not. they feel you are pulling back. why are you pulling back? charlie: i think that is true in life. people who, there is a recognition, a resonance of people -- are saying i'm naked

and let's be in this together. david: you and i have messed up. the convention speech was such an occasion for that. and everyone on earth was saying do this and still the decision was to be posed and boring, i mean, fine, professional. charlie: better than usual for her. david: but compared to what could've been -- mitt romney could not do it, either. romney totally could. and there is something of people where they just are willing -- i think that was part of for life experience, battling illness and other things, made her more open or fragile. david: for some people, that humbling experience does create empathy and humility. franklin roosevelt is a classic example of this. it creates this bond and they connect their suffering to a story of larger transcendence.

then they really go with an open heart, expecting the best of people. for some reason, when they think they're severing his illegitimate or the -- they do not turn into a longer reduction narrative, then they close it. walllie: there was an nbc/ street journal poll in which they did not attach donald trump's name but they talked about some of the reasons that, what he is saying in part, removing lots of the negative things we talked about, just saying these are the kind of thing that he is suggesting. and that message went through the roof. a direct connection. so, my question is, how large is that? if that is large enough, it could live. david: or some future version could live. charlie: exactly. your point is somebody has to come on who is better equipped. both morally and otherwise to lead that. this is not the -- david: or if you go back to open

politics and closed. if you took the closed, progressive version that bernie sanders associated with and to' about trumps comments women and bigotry off the table, you could see a lot of the sanders people and a lot of that trump people on the same side. as a coalition, that makes a lot more sense that a lot of her coalitions. that could be a majority coalition. the other thing that is involved and that is a hatred of politics. and so we have a big -- country. there are two ways to govern such a counterpart one is through authoritarian, someone saying this is what we are going to do. and the others to politics. politics is messy. it's always compromise, always dirty, ugly, but it is better than authoritarian. but we have no bred a lot of people her so disgusted by politics -- charlie: but we've seen from "hamilton, musical" that this is not new, in every aspect. david: if i had to compare trump

to a figure in american history, and might be aaron burr. he tried to create an empire and was driven by touchy pride and ego. charlie: in a sense, what you saw is thomas jefferson, the tactics done in his name. sanders people's head 90% of the democratic party's passion and 95% of the ideas. although joe biden used to say to me and others, bernie sanders is saying the same thing he has been saying for 30 years. david: his integrity. if you look at where the democratic party shifted against trade, for the much higher minimum wage, these are, free college to wish and -- that is a sanders, those are sanders ideas. health care. so the party is steadily moving in that direction, away from the tradition that clington family stood for. one of the revelations of the

democratic convention were how unpleasant the sanders people were. not most of them. after our broadcast, i would hang out in the bar, i call it reporting. charlie: i call it martinis. you call it what you want. david: combine our pleasure with our profession. and so i ended up talking to a lot of sanders people. and most of them had been, some were occupy wall street. but on the floor, there was a certain small percentage, younger, frankly, who were so self-righteous and so un forgiving of opposing views. charlie: and a bit arrogant. david: moral preening. i was struck by -- i guess eight seen a little on the campaign trail. that's an absolutist tendency in the democratic party. charlie: it is my way or the highway. m my way or no way. david: another version of this hostility of politics. charlie: come november, if what kindinton wins,

of government to we have, and will it be a continuation of the kinds of qualities that she has exhibited so far in terms of -- not being open, aswe we would like to see her, not be able to explain something as simple as the e-mails? doing contortions to try to explain. david: if you remember back long ago, she had a scandal involving the rose law firm records. charlie: they showed up in the hallway. david: some coffee table. canimagine that will not be a' feature of hert white house if she has him because it has been marking her career. charlie: you think, nobody changes at 69 or 70? you h avave the character you have. david: one would not bet on it. hope is eternal. any plan in life -- she could change. lifeie: i live my based on that. what is the calculus for your change?

david: there are different stages in life. it's just, um, i think we think 20 life is open, you make all of these commitments. 50's,mean i'm in my mid but sadly no i have financial security. i have a career that is stable. so now is the time i can take the biggest risk in my life. now is the time where have a little more knowledge, i hope, of who i am and what i'm called to do. charlie: you can be true with yourself. david: be true. and so, i'm weirdly open to anything. which i think is the right posture for this age -- charlie: what is interesting about you said is he became -- 12 became strong enough to be -- once you became strong enough to be more open, truthful, risk-taking, there was when he became strong enough to handle it, you could -- it was not some spiritual growth over here.

there was when you got strong enough you think to be able to -- boasty,his was the you get strong enough to be emotionally volatile and spiritually open and feel greater pain and greater joint. y. you lose control and say, where my going? take me. so, somebody will take you. so, you are off on a different ride. then you think whatever happens will happen. charlie: thank you for coming. back in a moment. stay with us. ♪

is here,bonnie raitt the rock & roll hall of fame or intend time grammy winner has sold 60 million records over a 45 year career. the bestalled her slide player working today to achieve its named one of rolling stone's greatest singer and greatest guitar players of all time. "er latest album "dig in deep illustrates the balance of consistency and risk-taking that has defined her career. "the new york times" called it a digest of re-strengthen says "for every bittersweet ballad, there's a steamrolling groove." i'm pleased to have bonnie raitt back at this table. 20 years, 1995. bonnie: incredible. charlie: how are you? bonnie: i'm great.

getting ready to start the second leg of our couple your long tour. we are doing our summer outdoor tour starting friday night. charlie: you been doing this for 45 years. bonnie: started in 1970. charlie: you use the word, and you have talked about it -- gratitude. but it is also the passion for music. bonnie: oh, man, that is what makes being home, in the breaks between the tour, after about a week you go, i miss that. it is not the fan education. -- adulation. it is mostly just a playing on the songs and the feeling with the audience. there is nothing like it. charlie: keeps you young, keeps you everything. bonnie: you can't beat it. charlie: it keeps you alive. ♪ bonnie: all the nuggets of gold on my tongue all the wisdom coming in waves fateool is it that

has defined me all alone something to say? ♪ all alone with something to say ♪ charlie: how did you find the blues? bonnie: since i was a little girl when i first heard " blueberry hill" and chuck berry. rhythm and blues and blues sometimes people separate it. for me, soulful music is something i always love. even elvis was funky. otisded to like the motown redding, reader friendly. b stuff.that r& i think most of the world loves

american rhythm and blues and jazz. it has got that beat and that side to side thing that puts the roll in rock, you know what i mean? charlie: i do know what you mean to you once said your sound, your guitar sounds like bacon smells. bonnie: i was trying to think of something on the spot that was undeniably -- charlie: good. bonnie: yeah, in a way that somewhat on the edge of guilty. there's nothing like the way it feels to have that song come out of your amplifier or just within acoustic guitar. the slide guitar is so expressive. it never stops giving. charlie: bb said, the best. bonnie: i can't believe he would repeat that to journalists. i thanked him for it. if i never got anything else, i would be able to have that. yeah. charlie: but you are on the road, too? bonnie: on the road is the fun part. coming up with elbow after a

loved songs, when you find a great song i don't write my own stuff but when i find assignment speaks to me and fits me and know a good arrangement in my head and i work with my great band, it is the finding and coming up with the record that is the work part of what i do. and the promotion not my favorite part that it is important to let the word be out. but the touring part is the fun part. charlie: where the crowds are. the connection to the audience. bonnie: the thing that happens when you're playing, it is just indescribable. it is like an anointed exultation. you forget all of the worries and all the aches and pains. i watched it happen with my dad. i feel the same way. charlie: your dad used to watch my show. bonnie: he and i would watch it together. i would say, you're watching charlie? of course, i'm having cereal and watching sterling. -- cha

rlie. charlie: you have been sober for 30 years. was that hard? bonnie: for me, it was a piece of cake. from the first day, i got it was going to be a lot easier to not do it, rather than try to manage how much at when. and you know, there other things you can get addicted to if you are an addicted kind of person for you work too much, or codependent relationships that you probably should be out of. charlie: did you have some of those? bonnie: part of sobriety is being aware of your tendencies to be, to use things to numb o outut or feed that big gaping thing you are missing. whether it is love or sex or keepng -- i toory to an eye on it. the sobriety part has been blessedly easy.

charlie: i've never bought this and i know there are experiences in which people say, if i was thinking, i was a better writer. bonnie: oh, yeah. look at the work that keith did when he was high. most of the people i studied in literature and high school were raging alcoholics. you know, with abuse problems. charlie: you believes this? bonnie: i came out later when i was an adult, i found out my god, hemingway and those guys, this is alcoholic thinking. once you understand that tendency to be self-aggrandizing and feel like you deserve more but you feel like you are worthless. those two things at the same time that drive a lot of people to great art. i feel wounded or they feel more sensitive, or they are seeing things or picking up channels other people don't get. i don't think anybody regrets the work they did. charlie: you said most of the music you did was written by someone else. but i'm surprised by the. because you've lived life. because you are woman of feeling and a woman of -- you have lived

life and you feel like. bonnie: but you don't have to have written the song to make it yours. charlie: i would think the capacity to feel as we do means that you can write those feelings. bonnie: i have written 30 songs and i'm really proud of them. and i have got more on this latest record than i have in a while. charlie: on this one? bonnie: there were specific reasons that i wanted to because i was missing -- i wanted to custom write some songs that went with certain field of music. politicalkick butt song on there because i had enough of money hijacking democracy. there's some songs about regret, saying- and sadness, goodbye to love relationships in my family. i'm sorry for who you could not before me. it's sad when you look back. there were some things i wanted to say that i cannot make you love me and angel from

montgomery. charlie: you have to sing those. bonnie: they will come up on the stage and get you. it did not matter that i did not write him. because iti picked resonates with something. it is just as real -- charlie: "i can't make you love me." you have to sing that. bonnie: it is a great gift that they sent that song to me first. charlie: this is for you.] bonnie: a lot of people have covered it, including adele. prince did a version of it. charlie: but they sent it to you first? bonnie: they did. time"a song on "nick of by one of the co-writers and he loves the way i sang. that is the song i think the people remember me for the most. charlie: i do, too. bonnie: i'm very proud to have it. charlie: i like "need you tonight." bonnie: that inxs song.

♪ because i am not sleeping there's something about you, baby ♪ nice to know you do not have to hang up your spurs because you're getting on, right, charlie? charlie: that is what they say. [laughter] the closestsay thing to religion is gratitude. bonnie: to me, being aware of how blessed i am and not focusing in on what is wrong all the time in complaining or whining -- to look around and see how blessed we all are. i'm certainly, you and i have had blessed careers and lives. uffling andople, sc trying to put food on the table -- when you think of your life up how grateful it is knowing there are people worse off and knowing that their people fighting illness and heartbreak. we are just so grateful to be

able to take a breath. charlie: you say i hate whining. at the same time, you know a lot of lies because people have every right. this is unfair. bonnie: exactly, exactly. because i am around so much injustice and suffering and loss, i am so grateful that i am not in that situation. we are put on this earth to do something to help those who are not as lucky. charlie: there was a series of 5-29, where you lost mother, father and brother. coming,i knew it was but i did not expected to be back to back like that. i tried to prepare for it, but to watch people you love suffer and somebody lose who they are, whether it's alzheimer's which my mom. my dad had a fall, like a lot of older people do. he was on the road still in his 80's. some accident like that. my older brother was -- -- he

broke his ankle and aspirated and the hospital and got chemical ammonia. that started a cycle of months of not being able to recuperate in losing muscle tone and he did not get to be john raitt anymore. heartbreaking to watch him. charlie: what was it to be the daughter of john raitt? bonnie: the greatest. that guy, was everything i am i owe my parents. they were full of gratitude, full of curiosity, had youthful spirits. and avid, acute minds. and loved all kinds of music and art. were political and quaker and active. my dad in particular just had such a love of life and never said a bad thing about anyone. charlie: do you get some of his friendliness from him? bonnie: i would say my mom was more actively involved with the groups and my dad would do benefits and write checks and

talk about it. people did not ask and interviews about what you care about. aey put on the road to be safe energy environmentalist and justice and civil rights. they took me to the march on washington. they took me to the rallies. they educated my brother and i in how to be observant. and that was basically a quake r tenant. charlie: what price do you -0- did you pay to work the way you are? bonnie: running at a record company and being a captain of your own ship and producing yourself, that kind of stuff can be taxing. since the beginning, i have to answer for every single note on the record and everything i wear. i like to have an understanding ever is talking

to me because it will reach a certain level. there is a price to pay for being in control which means i do not get to have some delegated and spend my time thinking about my next songs. because i do not write my own music and i want to have my own notness that my dad did have any control over. i grew up watching have to wait for someone to give him a new show. if i ever do this -- i want to be able to pick the ticket prices and who is opening the show. most people in my position do that. but as a woman, i do not think i could do wife and mother. youlie: my philosophy is if do not look out for yourself, nobody is going to look after you. bonnie: and wife and mother, i know other women much more famous -- angelina jolie, meryl streep, people that have raised healthy, balanced children are in long-term relationships which are successful, and still are working at a huge level. and doing all the press and pull it off. i do not know how they can do it.

charlie: you would have to manage that. bonnie: but id don't have to take care of kids or be a wise. we are married to our careers. charlie: i just have not been in a place where, i've been so .ngaged by living both work and play. bonnie: i hear you. i have had a lot of research in the wrong kinds of relationships. charlie: if you have a bad relationship, why? bonnie: it started out great but like relationships that don't work, whether they are with your colleagues at work or romantic relationships, they start out and you grow apart or for whatever reason a person wasn't who you thought they were. they were not the person they thought they were. charlie: felt like something you did not really -- bonnie: or you grow apart or issues of trust. each person i have been with long and consecutive relationships, has been the right person for that time. my life right now is a lot more

settled. and i have really a great team of people that are my friends. charlie: have you changed music -- bonnie: i hope i have deepened as a person. but a lot of the choices musically have to do with not wanted to repeat myself with something i have already done. i want to keep layering and keep stretching. but i called my last record " slipstream" because i am not reinventing the wheel. all of us in music, there is not that many new songs out there. just when you think there is nobody else new, you get the alabama shakes or somebody that will blow your mind and somebody completely new. i like to keep my ears open and keep stretching. so, i'd like to think i'm still growing as a musician. i hope so. charlie: you are. you did say once your music is not for sissies. bonnie: the topics that i choose lads, that is what

sold music to me. when you take a great torch song it turnst ballad the rock over. that is the why you want to reach people on the deeper level. and that's what i meant by. it is not skipping a stone across the surface of the water. digging deep. those grooves, when you love r&b and rock 'n roll is much as i do, and you get that group ove going, it is like digging a big trench and sitting in it. charlie: anybody want to play with you have not really for whatever reason? there are host of african musicians i've got a celticith -- some musicians like paul brady. there are more world musicians. i would love to do something with keith richards. i have done some duets.

i think would be really fun to make music with him. i have a lot of admiration for him. charlie: so di o i. the things i like about him, among other things, i have always been intrigued by the relationship between mick and him. bonnie: amazing. charlie: whatever it is, whatever the conflict, whatever the tension, whatever the joy, it is there, it is real. bonnie: what a gift that his forthrightness in writing that book and bob dylan's book. when elvis costello's books. gete guys are incredible to inside the machinations -- not the history of songs, but they are open about relationships that await i would not have the guts to do that. charlie: why not? what do you have to fear? bonnie: i do not want to spend time going over my pass. but basically i have spent so much time doing interviews about other people and about other

times in my past for documentaries and other people's books, i feel like i only did it. by the time you do a press junket for each album, you get into the 20th album, enough with the past. let's talk about now in the future. charlie: what do you hope for the future? bonnie: if we get past november -- election day is on my birthday. we'll see. in the future, i have another year of touring with this record, and then it'll be fun. the ebb and flow of being home and on the road has a nice balance. after all these years. i hope one day to be able to travel not professionally but just go and visit the places in the world. musically, man, there is a lot of jazz and blues left. a lot of great musical -- charlie: a lot of music to play and listen to. bonnie: i listen to paul simon and jackson browne and so many people that are just growing. charlie: how about you people? bonnie: a lot of new people that are great.

brittany howard from alabama shakes is great. lake street -- is great. laura mavola? she's a british artist. there are so much great new music out there. charlie: this album is called "digging deep." bonnie raitt, if you want to see her, she is on tour somewhere. you can find her somewhere. bonnie: you can come to a show. i will come to your house and do a private concert. charlie: i would love that. [laughter] she'll do it. bonnie: i will. i will have to be blindfolded and i will not know where it is, but i'll bring my guitar. charlie: that is all you have to bring. bonnie: i'll walk on the beach with your dogs. charlie: great to see. thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

>> i am donnie deutsch. >> and i am mark halperin. with all due respect to donald trump, next time, you might want to put the safety on. ♪ mark: on the show tonight, we break down ads, polls, and hope that donny deutsch does not have a breakdown over the election. let us get started. we have a brand-new bloomberg politics survey out today that shows hillary clinton beating donald trump, 50% to 44% in a two-way race. the margin drops slightly when the two leading third-party