from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." with the 2016gin presidential election donald trump is seeking to stabilize his campaign after weeks of stepping on his message. hillary clinton continues to widen her lead in key battleground states. campaign manager is also under fire. the new york times reported he million 12.7

dollars for consulting with the ukrainian president. addresslivered an focused on fighting islamic terrorism. mr. trump: the time is overdue to develop a new screening test. i call it extreme vetting. i call it extreme, extreme vetting. our country has enough problems. we don't need more. these are problems like we have never had before. were taping this program before his speech. hostng me is hugh hewitt, of a popular conservative radio program. also from washington dc, dan balz, the chief correspondent at the washington post.

hugh, tell me. i am fascinated by how trump continues to get in the way of his message. is that in his dna? hugh: he does, charlie. it is an inability to stay focused. it has hurt him this month when he could have been reproducing. i think we will have to read what the reaction to the speeches tomorrow. i hope he doesn't step on his message. he gave a great speech in detroit and then made off hand comments about the second amendment and stepped on his message. today, the home of the man who invented the penalty flag. it is in my backyard. the steel valley of ohio. he will try again to reset. if he stays on message, he can be very successful. at reasons we can talk about length. secretary clinton does not have a great record when it comes to stopping isis. he's got to make sure she is the

focus and not some sidebar he ignites. charlie: is it too late to do that? dan: it is getting very late, there's no question for the whol -- there is no question. the hole he has dug is deep. pollhole average -- average is six points plus. that is not a close election. map looks very bad for him. he really is running out of time. the problem is, politics is the game of addition, not subtraction. in all sorts of ways, he is blocking access to his candidacy to people and groups he needs to go after. it is because of what is hugh says. he creates divergence from his real message. carries out these fights,

grievances, he continues to try to litigate long after he needs to worry about them. somebody other than who he is but he's got to find a way to be who he is and stay on message. charlie: you believe that is a winning message, dan? dan: i think it is a possibly winning message. we have talked about this before. we are in an environment where people are looking for change. they are not happy with the status quo. they are not happy with the way the political system works. they think something dramatic needs to be done to shake it up. donald trump, in many ways, is the candidate best traditions -- positioned to do that. hillary clinton is an establishment candidate. many people like those policies, many do not. he cannot be the candidate for change when he is talking about

everything other than that. charlie: that is exactly what you believe. hugh: i was thinking when dan was talking, he did a piece for the post on sunday that mris the crisis that exist -- summarized the crisis that exists. i believe donald trump had been 10 points ahead had he began to execute a purposeful, message driven, targeted at the underclass in america. the lower-class america who feel left behind. i have always said he is a tractor beam for those who are despairing. there is a hot book out there. elegy.ly it is about the working class and the dysfunction, almost sense of hopelessness that has absorbed communities and states donald trump needs to carry. dan just alluded to this.

energizesible still to and encourage that group of people and say to the coal miners, i want to put you back to work. say to the automobile manufacturing plants which are empty in michigan, the steel plants that are close, we can repurpose those plans and bring back jobs. it is very late in the day. it is not over. the debates still matter. but boy, it is late. it is very late. charlie: is this his message or -- does hessage he understand the discontent? that those people you have been speaking about feel? hugh: i think he appropriated it. his reality television brings him into touch with people who are eager to succeed. he is a populist figure.

the people but they are very much in touch with the people. i would also point out, marco rubio's forehead in florida. the republicans aren't getting blown out. there are organization structures in the states that trump can harness. make appointments and gestures. it is up to him. point.agree up to a i think hugh is right. in the senate races, the republicans are not getting blown out. at a time when the republicans akly in thoseg week states. there is a dissatisfied electorate. trump's problem is, whether there are enough of those white blue-collar workers to actually

win the election. my hunch is, there are not. he has to go beyond that. polling, thet the most important thing, there is a gap to between those with college degrees and those without college degrees. in the white community, donald trump does extremely well with those without college degrees but he is losing in many places among whites with college degrees. that is a departure from the way republican candidates have performed. he doesn't have to win them overwhelmingly but he has to do better than he is doing. yes to do better with women then he is doing. do betterto ge with women than he is doing. not get blown out and still hope there is a reservoir to put him over the top.

in 1968, there was volatility. i believe we are in an era of volatility. milwaukee could have gotten worse. as california is entering fire season, so america is entering political fire season are these debates, the events in the middle east and crimea, where there are troops massing on both sides. in, where the genocide goes on. across u.s. and urban america, lots of stuff can happen. that is why i am reluctant to say, even if it september rolls around and donald trump is down by 10 points, i do not know whether in this year of black swans, there is not another one that is going to descend. charlie: there's also the risk that something could come out with hillary clinton because of the release of the e-mails. the director interview of

hillary. her.hangs over dan: she has not been able to put that to rest. or recently made it worse brought it back to the forefront with her interpretation of what the ei director said as opposed to what most people think he said. those revelations may and will continue to haunt her all the way to election day. the question is, are they clear-cut enough to change perceptions? or are they in the area of murkiness so people who have already made up their minds to with which side of the ledger the feel. that is a problem. we go back to donald trump constantly. in one way or another, he is unable to keep the focus on

hillary clinton. he draws attention from her weaknesses and older abilities and brings it back on himself.. when things happen to her, they become less of a story. charlie: you had an interview with donald trump. iu said something like, clearly understood what you meant when you talked about obama being a cofounder of isis. the deal he made for american troops to leave iraq, and that had led to the resurgence because of how the shia government treated sunnis and all of that. al qaeda came back. that is what you thought he meant. dan: i was sincere. i believe the president lost the peace in 2011. the withdrawal of troops. secretary clinton's failure to

negotiate an extension of the status of forces agreement. we have troops there today so it never made sense, but we left. into that vacuum came the syrian civil war and troops flying the black flags. i thought he was ready to give us an argument. he said, no. in that same interview, we talked about gilbert, a nigerian lebanese billionaire whose money has a distinct odor and has had to pay $300 million to the nigerian government to avoid criminal charges. there is an e-mail from the foundation, help us out. we need help for him with money.

she writes, this is the ambassador. ambassador or former ambassador? hugh: i think it was the current ambassador. the former ambassador now has it, i never got the call. they have done some repair. nonetheless, what donald trump ought to have done is not yell at the new york times or washington post but speak the name gilbert again and again. baitap for the media. -- the trap for the media. not to investigate him or his press approach. instead, he put the attention back on himself, not on mrs. clinton. it is just a mistake. campaign 101. not executed well. charlie: one more time, why does he do it? hugh: if you are the star -- i'm beginning to think his greatest

strength in the primaries, the masterful use of television to make himself the center of attention. that same ability to make yourself the center of attention is not something he can turn off. it is a permanent on switch. that is what makes for great tv and wonderful primary runs. it does not make for a great general election campaign. charlie: you said, dan, trump had to expand rather than subtract. she expand? does she has a potential to appeal to the economic insecurity and discontent that is part of -- go ahead. dan: she certainly has tried. i think from the start of her campaign, she has talked about her principal focus will be to raise wages for all americans.

wage stagnation is an important issue. it has created some of the economic insecurity that we see in a lot of parts of the country. with she has talked about an economy that works for everybody. she has not galvanized that issue. she certainly has not galvanized that constituency a lot of that constituency, the white working class, is donald trump. she has the ability. if you look at the last few elections, the obama coalition to the degree she can reassemble that, is a coalition that get you over 50% and over 270 electoral votes. she has an easier way both to get to 50% in a head to head to 270 electoral votes. his path is very difficult. one of the problems he has right now is if you look at the polling nationally and a number of the battleground polls that

have come out, her percentage is about what she needs. 90%, 92%. his percentage among republicans is not close to that. in some cases, the high 70's to the low 80's. he needs to bring that support up to 90%. if you see that number moving up, not just creeping up but moving up directly over the next few weeks, then this race will look more competitive. until that happens, she will have the advantage. charlie: do you think donald trump has ronald reagan's charm? he does not have his charm. he has even more training in the art of television. i think there is a chance secretary clinton will not is so because her lead substantial it is not worth the risk. we saw him do it in the debates time and time again, via a on

moderators and candidate. speaking directly to camera. i don't see the upside debating him. reagan used those opportunities. i think donald trump well. charlie: you imagine she would get away with that? dan: i don't think she wants to. they have already put out a statement, to the chairman of the campaign, saying they will accept the terms of the debates commission. they will be at the three debates that are already set in terms of the dates. they will abide by the formats. donald trump has not yet done that in an explicit way. there are indications he will participate but he has not explicitly said he will show up on the three dates on the calendar at this point or will except the terms under which these debates are held by the commission. the gap at this point is on trump's side.

the primaryhe won season debates and is an effective debater. stages when those there were a number of people with him. a head-to-head dave eight -- debate with hillary clinton will be different. he has demonstrated he knows how to handle himself. i think it would be on his interest to be on that stage. charlie: my guess is he knows that and everything he says where they are saying is negotiation. hugh: i agree with that. charlie: people close to him has problems ise everything is a transaction. this has become part of the conventional wisdom. he sees everything as a negotiation. whatever he says, goes back to how he has spent his life. a sickly starting at one place

and hoping he will end up somewhere else. think when we look back and dan writes this book, he is the developer. he has always been a developer. large represented land developers. everything is a negotiation. every know can be changed to a yes. every acre can be recaptured. aerything he does is based on lifetime of success in development. i am believing he is approaching the debates this way. trying to get a larger audience. trying to remove a rather dead hand and they ought to get hallf the town format. i still think hillary clinton andperform a richard nixon

walked off. there is no upside for her. says younga today voters are fleeing ronald trap. seeing --linton town 56%-25%.hem, hugh: if i can sum it up, millennials don't like mean people. donald trump has been perceived as being mean. i think that is the long and short of it. dan: i do agree. we did a long piece. there were a number of us talking to young voters. things. two one, they are not wild about

this choice. they don't find either of these candidates particularly inspiring. on the other hand, they find donald trump a lot scarier and less appealing than hillary clinton. our reporting bears out the polling. they are going to go in big numbers for hillary clinton. the issue for her as it has been is whether she can generate the kind of it is he is him that brings out the big turnout that barack obama was able to do. in terms of percentages, she will do handsomely with that group of voters. to peoplehen i talk in the clinton campaign, i asked them what they worry about and they say turnout. dan: she has not been an inspiring candidate. bernie sanders did as well as he did because he was able to inspire people. he had an authenticity about his message and she struggled with that. he had a clarity of his message,

as does donald trump, that she lacks. it is very hard to boil down her speech into something simple. here is what the clinton campaign is about, other than competence and incremental progress based on where we are today versus where we were. the issue for her is inspiring people. for a lot of democrats, donald trump is a figure who inspires them to want to vote against him and vote for her. and so much of the polling we have looked at, on both sides, there are as many or more people voting because they are voting against the opponent rather than because they are enthusiastically voting for the nominee of their party. that is an issue for her weather with young voters or latinos or african americans. she has to make sure the energy is there. charlie: do you agree they are the least popular candidates to vote for the presidency? hugh: the voter misery index,

which i borrowed from ronald reagan, they are running away misery index.r i was waiting for you to connect this to literature or film and you connected it to the olympics. what is your take on trump and putin? hugh: i believe that vladimir putin is so far ahead of americans when it comes to playing the great game. i remember interviewing vice president cheney and asking about putin. he said, when i looked in his eyes, i see a kgb colonel. he wants trump to win, he probably wants

hillary to win. a european chess game and winning everywhere. crimea. moldova. estonia. putin is winning. what he was to do to american politics is interfere and metal. i just don't know what we know his game plan and i would be the last person to presume i have any idea what this kgb expert is up to. said he saw aates stone cold killer. dan: it is a damaging story, although to be fair, he has denied it. he said, i have never taken any cash. i never worked for the government of ukraine or russia. we know he operated there. we know the history of that. we know american consultants are in a lot of places overseas.

the question is, which side are you operating on? thatis one of those issues will continue to be out there, surrounding him. particularly because of the way donald trump seemingly has related to vladimir putin. ump's mo is it people say nice things about him, he says nice things about them. it has created the impression of a coziness. 's point.gh i have no idea what putin's real game is. but they have gotten themselves wrapped into a situation in which they have to explain or deny or try to put this to rest. it is pretty hard when these stories keep coming out. there was an old roman

ruler. on his tomb is the saying, no friend has done me a favor nor enemy and injury which i have not repaid in full. if you say nice things about trump, he likes you. potential debate moderator to him. she does noth say nice things about me. i don't think hillary clinton would be accepting her. , was surprised donald trump but that is his mo. it is very personal. politics is personal. charlie: and then there is the income tax returns. [laughter] hugh: i asked him in february, 2015 would you release them. he said he would. he said he would go back, what

is the norm? we talked as though it was a feat accomplished. beon't think he would looking at september, 2016 that he would actually have two release them. he is not going to release them. that is not happening. it probably doesn't matter to 99.9% of the public. what matters to them is, our friend met doubt has said -- m att dowd has said this, who understands me better? who cares about me? in this election, they are looking at both of these candidates and i think, i don't think either of them give a rat's patootie. charlie: will he be forced to release them or, in the end, it is about reporters think understands me? returns, i think

he has made a calculation. hugh is correct. he doesn't have to release them and most people won't care. the issue is, what is there he doesn't want to release? the second is, what does that tell us about what kind of presidency he would operate? would he operate under the norms we expect in terms of transparency or would he not? that is a question that goes beyond the issue of the tax returns. charlie: you agree? he obviously has something to hide, does he not? what is your speculation about what he might have to hide? is it some relationship with somebody? how much money reported or how many charitable the directions he took? hugh: i hesitate to speculate, only because i have been underwhelmed by everyone's tax returns. mitt romney was reluctant to release them and it was not a

big issue. i have no idea what some people vulnerability.ir they don't given us to charity. they have associations which are unsavory. i have never figured it out. i don't thk it rlly does matter. i think donald trump is in control of his own ability to close the gap. it will not be the tax returns, it will be his ability to sit down with people like you, charlie, and communicate warmth and caring. not just the oligarch, the men of power. fdr was all of that but he also had a bedside manner, if you will. a radio side manner which was charming and engaging. i have seen that in donald trump. i have seen him do that. i have talked to him when he has done that. if he can flip on that switch as opposed to the, i am going to keep these reporters out switch, i think he does much better. charlie: thank you so much, hugh

and dan. it is a pleasure. ♪

>> we are seeing people start to talk about the beginning of change in the region.

charlie: natalie portman is here. she makes her direct world of you in "a tale of love and darkness." she also wrote and stars in the

film. ofchronicles the founding israel. here is the trailer to the film. [speaking a foreign language] [cpeaking a foreign language]

charlie: i am pleased to have natalie portman back at this table. obvious question is, why this film. first of all, it is in hebrew. second, when you started being interested in it, you were too young to play the character. book,e: when i read the it was when it came out in translation 10 years ago. it was moving to me immediately. i saw the home in front of me, which is testament to the authors''s writing. i wanted to direct it but i didn't think of playing the part because i was 26. it took me so long to make the film. i aged into being able to play the role. charlie: you really wanted to

just directed but then people said, -- natalie: you are crazy. a film in hebrew. you have no known actors. have you expect us to give you money for this? that also helped, for me to be in it. charlie: what was it about this? natalie: the language is so beautiful in the book. the time ieals with have heard about so much in my own family. i was born in israel. my grandparents on my father's site moved to what was british mandate palestine from eastern europe as refugees. when you imagine something your whole life, that sort of creates a visual repertory for what you can create. was he excited about

the film being made? natalie: he was incredibly generous. it was always hard for him. he said in the beginning, this is my story. it is me, it is my name, it is me as a child. it is my mother. it is my writing, my book. it is also personal. beware, i'm going to be emotional. but he was incredibly supportive and loving with the film. by extension, with me. he said from the beginning, make it your own. don't try to film the book. charlie: that is the woman you played. is moving to watch him talk about it. he's such a heart and mind and soul all at once. having to tell his mother's story, having to tell himself his mother's story, was formative. it was a fantasy world.

natalie: he describes it as slavic melancholy. romanticismancholy, that she grew up in. the equation of sadness with beauty. it makes living with disappointed dreams that much more difficult. see, it is beautiful to sort of his evolution as a writer in this gap she leaves for him. charlie: the interesting thing israel is they of story of dreams and at the same time reality. natalie: absolutely. her experience as an immigrant. her experience as a mother and a wife, having these expectations new are unfulfilled by the

country come the husband, her position in society. charlie: she was an early feminist. natalie: i don't know she would define herself as that, but for sure i think there was frustration. uc that, with the manyst dreams, there are zionism's career there were hundreds of zionism. there was a religious zionism. a secular, utopian socialism. none of those dreams have turned out the way the dreamers dreamed. how you deal with the disappointed dream sort of depends on your mental health, i think. charlie: this hebrew language was crucial for you. natalie: it was really important. it is one of the most magical things to me, if not the most

magical thing about this time. the revived the language, which inon't think has happened the history of the world. a language that was essentially dead -- charlie: was revived. is beautiful it the new language. when the first girl said to the first way, i love you. he was surprised it became an international bestseller. natalie: he thought it would be a corner in jerusalem that would read it because it is so specific. but of course -- charlie: has he seen the film? natalie: he has and he was incredibly loving about it. me.h was very meaningful to more than anything, i revere him. charlie: why does she commit

suicide? reality didn't match the vision? it is a mystery to read he gave me very few guidelines, don't try to answer it. people have asked me permission before to make the film, but they would always adapt the screenplay and make it like, she had a lover that died and she thought about him. they would try to give some explanation. he says, who knows the answers. there ishere is a, many things you could say but ultimately no one knows. think, i tried to show in the film a different you know pressures of living and a place that is extremely violent. of having lost everything in the place you came from as a refugee absolute in europe.

annihilation in europe. ining this romantic outlook the world not matched by reality. earlye: israel had an female prime minister. tell me about your feeling. when you were three, you moved to the u.s. with your family. but you were born there and experienced. -- experienced very early. have you continue to go back? is israel living and breathing and crucial to euro and being? -- to your own being? natalie: i go back regularly. my dad's side of the family continues to live there.

it has been a big part of my life. the way i see the world. i am not israeli. i'm not totally american. i feel american. i obviously have citizenship and have lived most of my life here. outsidere this sort of status because i am also borne out of the country and immigrated here. it is definitely a major influence on me. charlie: you related to her stories. natalie: absolutely because that whole mythology of where we came from, it is wildly similar when you hear the kinds of stories that are told and repeated. i don't know, maybe it is the family thing in general. you hear the same stories over and over again. you have also sent and

been vocal about the politics of israel. you worry about its survival? natalie: i think we are certainly in a critical point need --eah, things decisions need to be made to create a better future for everyone living there. some people think the possibility of a two state solution is shrinking daily. understandable and difficult. how many years can people be hurt, i'm talking about on both sides, and still reconcile? we see it on an individual basis if you think about collective emotions in an individual way. there is not a whole lot of desire to reconcile after that long of being hurt. but it is also kind of the only

way forward. charlie: how do they think is going to end? until thethese years, people say, we can't continue this? natalie: right, exactly. charlie: everybody tries. every single new president tries to do what he can or perhaps she can to do some thing about it. teach year, we sense george mitchell and then john kerry. it continues. some critics call this a love letter to israel. do you see it that way? natalie: it is really funny it came out that way. not that it came out that way but is perceived that way. it is very much, to me, a family story and an individual story. there is the backdrop which is the state. if anything, i find myself i am, a, the same way

good citizen is a critical citizen. when it was perceived that way, it was surprising to me. it is not meant as a political statement, it is meant as a family story with a historical backdrop. ♪

charlie: did you seek out advice

on directing? natalie: update. mostly in the editing process, i went to direct friends. int was really my first time that process. otherwise, it has been over 20 years i have been acting. been lucky enough to work with a lot of wonderful directors. charlie: did you always know you are going to direct? natalie: i don't know it that i knew very early. since ipast 15 years, turned 20, i was thinking i wanted to direct. and especially, we all the bemoan the lack of female directors. you can't complain about it and then not do it.

luckily, if you have the opportunity and the desire and the vision. charlie: i can imagine, someone the wouldmight think want to direct, and then you are there with somebody who is a master, you would be wanting to watching and asking some questions even if you are sickly and actress or actor. mean specifically this project, saying, what should i do? yes, absolutely. every time i am set, i talked to dp's too. they are choosing the camera and lens. if it is film, what kind of film and why. how they choose their color pallets. making music decisions. all of those were really helpful because that is not what you get involved in much as an actor.

charlie: what was the most challenging part? natalie: music was very challenging. about musicecific and i had music i would play all le i was writing and directing. on the image and the emotion is the same, it doubles up and it is too much. the music that works is counterintuitive. it is not what you think is the emotion. that was really surprising and challenging. where didhat way -- you film it? natalie: almost entirely in jerusalem and a little bit in the desert outside and also the north. some of the more dream sequences. charlie: mostly israeli actors? natalie: almost all except for me, i am part. also a few palestinian or

arab-israeli. when will it open in israel? natalie: it opened last summer. very nicely received which was great. aarlie: did they see it as story of the founding? and of their favorite novel? natalie: a national treasure. yeah,, i think both for sure. it was really interesting how moved people were. there is a scene when the u.n. vote to approve the creation of the state of israel. it, we were shooting everyone was just like, because it is a story, it is sort of the equivalent, not the equipment but you know, where people remember where they were with

jfk or the man on the moon. that is the story everyone has heard. charlie: the radio of the u.n. vote. we have that is what heard from our grandparents or parents. to be there and re-created, everyone was emotional. charlie: you had the opportunity to talk to people who participated in that. he was the most amazing to describe it. there was this collective scream that sounded like the voices of everyone who had ever died. everyone who was living, just screaming out. thisse it was, obviously incredible tragic joy of having lost everything but now finally having their own place.

that his father said to him, which is in the film, now that we have a jewish state, you will never bleed again for being jewish. which is of course a tragic thing to thing now. charlie: you wonder whether israel would be a different place if it hadn't constantly had to live with the struggle it has had, for better or worse. you wonder about the palestinians, if they had had a homeland and place. been able to coexist. might have created something really wonderful? natalie: it is certainly a tragedy for both peoples but hopefully not over. hopefully something possible to change.

charlie: what is the charity? natalie: is a group that tries to get both children in the developing world and developed world into a new place. in the developing world, the build schools that have wells and latrines and health care. small business loans for the mothers of the children who go village soin one they create this sustainable school model. world, they get young kids to raise money for the schools and then go help build them. they support kids feeling empowered they can do something to change the world. it is a wonderful group that i have been lucky enough to be a small participant in that it really gets kids helping other

kids. charlie: heady thing making this film has changed you? -- how do you think making this film has changed to you? natalie: when i started, i to expressing my opinion and a clear way. expressing what i wanted. jill soloway, was the creator of i admire,nt," a woman had a speech last year about how she thinks part of the reason there are not so many female directors is she has said directing is about desire. we are not comfortable with female desire. you have to say, i want that. i want that. it was hard for me when they would say, what color should we make this wall in the house? do you think the length of the

skirt is right? what kind of filtered you want to put on the lens? when you are the leader, they want you to say, i want this. i like that. that is not good. you have to be clear and direct. i knew what i wanted, i just didn't know how to express it. within a week, i was very comfortable. 31was interesting to see, at when i directed it, i still hadn't developed that in myself. it definitely helped me develop that clarity and comfort with ying what i want to my family has been really wonderful about it and supportive. sort of a piece of our story, too. charlie: thank you for coming. "a tale of love and darkness"

opens on friday, august 19. "a tale of love and darkness." thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

>> with all due respect to all that has come after, john mclaughlin did it first and he did the best. ♪ ♪ mark: the pioneering political talk show host john mclaughlin has passed away. we will talk about him later in the show. a monmouth university survey has hillary clinton leading donald trump in florida among likely voters. a washington post poll of virginia voters that has really