♪ announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." jolie vang donald trump continues to destabilize his campaign, this time with a change in leadership. also named stephen -- as the campaigns chief executive. he took a leave of absence as the chair of the conservative website. joining me from washington, bob costa of the washington post.

and he hosted the papers new podcast the runoff. bob cost a, tell me about this change. did it come about, how did it come about, and what difference will it make? bob: chum's former campaign manager was fired and trump began to move in a more disciplined direction under the guidance of paul manafort, who came onto the campaign earlier in the spring. matt forte had tried to keep trump more disciplined. trump has grown agitated in recent weeks and it came to a head over the weekend. he decided to move in a different direction. he decided to follow stephen bannon's advice. he made the shift, keeping metaphor to on with his title and his role, but having kellyanne conway with the pollsters. the hard right website, the populist website, to be the

chief executive. what we are seeing from trump is someone who, in one way, is trying to appeal more to women, have a presentation as a president. what we are going to see from trump is more rallies, much more of trump being aggressive and going after the clintons. it's a trump who is of the republican base more of the republican establishment. michael: there is only one thing trump needs to do, and that is broad and appeal beyond the one area of the country he has found his message is resonating in. that is generally in white high

school graduates. he is going to lose, every poll shows it. todoes not seem possible bring that to the white house? charlie: what about paul manafort? remarks were-cuff getting in the way of that. michael: hello clintons -- hillary clinton is by no means candidate for change. if he insists on the kind of very careless rhetoric that is ,o provocative and problematic

it is hard for people to focus on the change. tol manafort was brought in polish these rough edges, to send them down. make them more capable. -- if paul manafort's idea is to let trump be the old , i don't see how that is consistent with this idea of turning into a classic change candidate. bob: democrats have seized on -- they see and ban and the idea that the republicans are veering toward the base. when i talked to the trump campaign, they have an unconventional view. -- the way i see this is trump has to arouse working-class voters belong

nonpartisan lines. he is someone who doesn't have party relationships, not even of the gop base. he is someone who is ideological and the anti-corporatist sense. whether youhis line read his articles or listen to his radio shows. i have spoken to him many times in the past nine years, where he thinks this populist movement goes beyond the gop. he talks about greg's it -- about brexit. chile bank a true pop -- .harlie: a true populist bob: a populist who is going to meet people and have these raucous rallies. michael: that concept is that they are not working-class whites. there is a much broader unrest.

in that donald trump could turn that into a dish into an electoral victory. she championed a gay become aive, who has sensation in the conservative world, who argues you can be gay and be a conservative and you can hate all the liberal institutions that seem to champion gays. that is one example of the way of thinking, a different version of an angry person. trump tryhat is what to do in talking about urban blacks. he said, you have lived in cities that have been run by traditional democratic administrations and it has not terms of thein policies that are part of those governments what you might have achieved. is that correct? you know the trump thinking.

bob: that is correct. they tried talking about law and order and crime and those who may have been field affected. modelh as the metaphor to of having prepared remarks and speeches. trump has limited in doing that. a bare knuckles message that is pure change on the outside. he is projecting himself to be that. but he is someone who has been involved in the democratic party, the republican party, he has been a mega-donor. running for the reform nomination. he is taking hold of it, but is he that? i think he's more of a political figure.

aboutl: the question donald trump and the question about this gentleman i profiled this morning, stephen bannon, are they fraudulent populists? after the financial crisis, he wanted to champion the most severe length and provocative kind of conservatism and donald trump was something was a member of the democratic party, lives in manhattan, is a wealthy realtor who woke up one morning. he decides he's going to champion white working-class voters. together they make for an unusual team. i think you have to ask the question how credible are they in the eyes of most people around the country as real messengers for their anger? bob: we have seen this before.

trump is different in the way romney was portrayed by democrats in 2012 as this corporate businessman. isolated figure, doesn't have many friends on wall street. his friends are people like tom barrick. it is his own company and family. who was the first two introduced him to the idea of populist as a winning political message? bob: his father. one thing i always take away from my interviews with donald trump, he has picture frames, hundreds of them of him on magazine covers. but the biggest picture frame is an old frame, a thick frame of his father and his parents. he always thinks about his father the way his father talked to him about trade and the economy in the 1970's. it is really heavily influenced

by the way his father thought of the country as a businessman navigating the upper realm in the late 60's and early 70's. how you tell me about found out about this piece. a tenor of the campaign comes from the brags it. goldman sachs is very globalist. they introduced to this idea. michael: david brooks picked up interview with you. we are seeing these blurring partisan political lines as people become more frustrated with the economy. their target is not so much the elite as it is in the united states. this idea of global elites and institutions that are not

working for them, that are distant. that is where we see so much of this fury directed. global americae sphere of media outlets, companies, trade organizations that are aligned in their view against working americans. michael: he describes to friends the story of being in shanghai with a financial crisis started in 2008 and being so upset about the fellow bankers and financial elite and political elite that have allowed the system to become so overburdened and so corrupt. story of his father, who was a telephone worker for one of the small bell companies in virginia, who spent his life working there and at&t stock. there was a crisis in the family and he felt like that was so emblematic of a country and a world where global elites feel comfortable around each other that destroysions

the value of regular americans. the industrial jobs they had. and he viewed that as a turning point in his life. money from the companies that helped trigger the financial crisis, but it was a never looked back moment for stephen bannon. he committed himself very --erfully and committed late very powerfully to the populist decisions. he felt global leaders had taken them for granted and that is the message he has brought to the trump campaign. charlie: and the idea of anti-villa berg, that there are men and women meeting around the world to control the world. michael: there are a very few number of people in the world you can see -- you can see in the statistics with wealth and mass. charlie: look how much of the

world is controlled by a few people. michael: there is an element of that that has agitated republicans on capitol hill and people in the conservative movement. the bill buckley wing of the conservative right, they try to wash out the john birch element, this anti-globalist element that seems to have really reared as ted again. becausessarily directly of trump, but it is part of this trump insurgents in american conservatism. if you look at all the outlets that have been around for a long time, they are comptroller -- they are uncomfortable with what is happening with different publications. this is not what bill buckley and reagan represented. >> they never stop criticizing the elite and the powerful. they are conservatives, but they look at the paul ryan's and said

you are actually part of the problem. no one is sacred, no one is going to be protected. that is what made him a hero and the conservative world. he didn't care if you happen to be a member of his etiology or party. if you sell somebody out then you are a target. that is why you saw steve venoco after eric cantor, who was very close to wall street, when he went up for reelection to nobody thought the majority could ever lose his reelection in a local district. charlie: he lost his election in a primary to hillary clinton. what do he know, what have we earned about the fbi notes? what is the next term? fbit is not within an report did it is within these leaks that we believe that began

abroad might have held back. charlie: is there some connection with the clinton foundation or more than that? michael: there are some familiar lines of thinking about where the next scandal could be. thethere paid to play in world of the foundation that led over to the state department? which would be an extraordinary breach. she contradicted something very important she said about diplomacy or benghazi. that has become the last hope of some in the republican party and may ultimately be a fantasy. that an operative thesis, the fact that they were able to delete all those e-mails, or they knew something like that wasn't in their? know why youn't delete an e-mail or i delete an

e-mail, but i usually delete it because i don't want it around. i think you are correct in assuming -- they deleted these e-mails for reasons. they didn't want them around. they thought they were other too personal or perhaps eventually in conflict with running for the white house. charlie: great to have you. great to see was always. back in a moment, stay with us. ♪

charlie bank don't think twice is the new film of writer and director -- david edelstein says it is funny and inspiring and harsh and depressing. here is a trailer for the film. >> five minutes. >> why am i japanese? -- orwhen i told you member when you told me, please help me when i'm racist? the most important thing is don't think. don't memorize. >> are you working right now? are you applying for anything? , unemployment. -- >> unemployment. >> the first thing that comes to their mind. fat.u're

>> you are. >> your slow. -- your dangerous. >> your slow. >> they always do that. anyone from the industry shows up, you turn into the woman -- turn into a woman. >> my critics like to call it obamacare. >> we will be there. >> we are auditioning on thursday for weekend live. >> congrats, man. >> i can't take it anymore. i have to focus on me. i'm going to get the job at weekend live. >> if it is money you are looking for, i've got none.

i've lost at the last six times my daughter was taken. >> i like my life how it is right now. >> you can't do improv forever, it ends. your 30's are all about realizing how dumb it was to hope. >> i just turned 36. ♪ >> we all said we would wear the same outfit. thelie: i'm pleased to have writer and producer and director here at this table. how did you get involved? guest: we have worked on stories for the radio show and outcome in as editor.

he was writing scripts and showing them to me and i kind of got dragged in. charlie: dragged into making a movie. guest: i was very reluctant. charlie: but you signed on because you thought it was that good. guest: there are a lot of movies about i'm going to be a star and make it, but there are things that are uncommon like, i don't know if i have andgh talented this is -- enough talent. this is about people who win one of them rises, they ask if they should give up on their dream. that is one thing a lot of us went through. charlie: they have to get a regular job. guest: some of these deadlines are based on factors out of our control. you knowaid when did the script was finished? i said when my daughter was born

i said i guess i'm done. then we shot the film that summer. charlie that is what it is about. -- charlie bank is what the film is about. that is what the film is about. it is about looking at what is important in life and saying what am i doing and why my doing this? abouts what is exciting making the movie, i feel like the american dream is based on this idea -- we are fed this idea that success is one thing. be on a spectrum, this whole number of things. about realizing was to hope, for me my 20's were all about me and my friends thinking we are going to

get the same dream. we are going to write for conan were the daily show. then we realize we can't have that. i think that is an important discovery to have. to didmember you went that and you are interested in an old-fashioned movie where you would have six characters. you wouldn't have all the six characters who are equal in theire, mixing it up. >> you almost have to hang it on an event. so that there is these crazy -- seismic reproion repercussionssmic . charlie: you live with this idea that never say never, never say no, don't let anybody change you from the pursuit of your goal.

then on the other hand you have these people who say you have to really be real about this. your life if you are in pursuit of something that will never happen. find your way between those two things. thatth of us have parents asked what are you doing when we started. comediano be a standup in my 20's and 30's and my parents were like, don't do that. they did support me that also remember my parents were therapists. trying to discover what it is you enjoy. they did not hide their feelings. the was the minor? psychology. by all means. please minor in psychology. >> my mom was a therapist.

that is the way of being a modern parent. support your kid in what they do, but you have a voice that says i don't agree with what they are doing. berlie: there has to always something else. a fallback position. get that college degree and see if it doesn't work. >> you can't have a plan b. >> even if you are in a different level about show , i am not penniless. i am fulfilled. and we have characters in the film. it hits at home. charlie: the dynamic of what you can risk.

>> we have been traveling around the country with this woman who coached our team. phoenix or dallas or san francisco or chicago or anywhere, as an improviser you can create the vast most , bestative, timely performed theater in the world on any given night. in newn't have to happen york or los angeles. charlie: the other interesting thing to me about this, is this the age of improv? >> i think so. i know that all three of us all very much agree with that assertion, because you are seeing it reap dividends in sim in a -- in cinema. give so see judd apatow much credence to improvisation, andethnically adam --

ethnically adam, it has permeated the cinema in a way it hasn't in the past. definitely adam, it has permeated the cinema in a way it hasn't in the past. i think it is here to stay. went out to promote the film, we didn't know there were improv theaters in so many cities. theaters.ere 120 inn i got out of college 2000 i was looking at cities. only 20.e it is that much bigger. charlie: they have schools and hundreds of people coming up through it. they think that is their ticket into so business -- into show business. >> you can go uptown in north

carolina and find improv. >> the skill set you are learning can simultaneously make you a better performer and writer. you can be both of those things simultaneously. >> sometimes the movie gets pigeonholed into a performance. the rules of improv say yes and it is all about the group and don't think. these are really good life principles, which is why all this training, it is not that. i would sayp, but don't go to a standup class, go to an improv class. charlie: don't go to standup class, but go to improv class because -- >> because the principles of it apply to everything. charlie: you said that art is socialism, but in life it is capitalism. >> that was something i wrote on my wall when i was writing the film. nobody ever said it in the movie but it kind of informs all of

it. >> we talked about that. we kind of know. >> it felt too exactly on the nose. the improv group is called the commune, however. [laughter] >> wonderful. >> the observation that my wife had one night, who makes a lot of great observations, we were doing a show. i improvise there sometimes. it was chris and tammy who are in the movie then elie kemper and a bunch of people and my wife goes everyone is equally talented and funny but this person is on "saturday night live" and this person is a tv star. and this person lives on an air mattress in queens. it is just so unfair in some ways. i just thought that's a whole movie. charlie: it used to be a game for me and i'd go to comedians and say who do you know who is way funnier than you are who we don't know? we've never heard of? >> wow.

>> in standup, he's become really -- he has a really big following but doug stanup is phenomenal. >> terrific. >> i think there is no one better. >> there is no one better you said. >> i think there is no one better than doug stanhope and marie banford who has recently become massive because of her series on netflix and doug has a huge following. i don't think there is anyone better than those two. >> in our world what is interesting is in our film is tammy sager and every skill one could have as an improviser she possesses to the nines. also i'd say in detroit, second city chicago, wrote for mad tv, wrote for girls, wrote for 30 rock. wrote for broad city. t.j., i'm ck home, saying these names that come to my mind. these people are trans endent. charlie: did people assemble for comedy central and assemble

for the daly show mostly from improv? > well, colbert. riggle. >> oh, yeah. there were a ton. rob corddry. yeah, yeah. >> ed helm. charlie: what is the difference in sketch and improv? >> the thing with sketch is one could use improve sation as a tool to develop and generate ideas and then you polish those ideas and it's written. when you see a show like second city that as sketch show everything has been prepared as if you're watching a play or a review whereas improv sation you're doing instant playwriting. it is happening only in the moment. as you said it is very epheferel. the show will be done after that day. everything is made up as you watch improvisation. >> second city the sketches all started as improvs. >> the process was always we

used it as a tool to write the sketches. then when you watch the review --. at the end. by the time you see them. right. >> they were in second city together in the 1990's and came back and worked in this realm in this round about way. when we talk about the film it's emotional because it is semiautobiographical inadvertently to yours and tammy's friendship. > it is. tammy and i, the movie is very special in that way to us because watching our careers they're both going on a trajectory. but the passion and the love and i don't even know how to explain it. i can't have a word for it. there is a feeling of camaraderie that doesn't go away. it is like being in the comedic marine corps. it is. i say marine corps in particular because the moniker - the motto semper fi del is

applies to improvisers. we are always faithful to the tenet. charlie: do you think of yourself as an actor? >> yes. i am a trained actor. i got a masters degree in performance and practical theater and then another masters in comedy from second city. i think of myself as an actor but i have this amazing arrow in my quiver which is this skill set called improvisation. charlie: who is your character in the film? >> jack mercer. the best way to describe him in every interview, there is a great stage direction mike wrote that says, jack mercer, parenthesis, stealth liam bishes. charlie: he hides his ambition. >> when he is tweeting, always tweeting like come see the show tonight jack mercy and when he is given the opportunity to audition for weekend live this "saturday night live" type of show, pure coincidence, he is

not -- he more than anyone sees the brass ring and how it gleems. he will not let a person get in his way from reaching the brass ring. no matter what it costs him in the court of public opinion he is not going to stop. he's not going to stop. to him, his dream is this thing that they're trying to achieve. i don't think that dream is ever altered. he's probably had that dream since he was 8 years old. so there is --. >> a nice guy. trying to do right by his teammates. charlie: where does being a nice guy end though? >> well, yeah. exactly. because he still looks out for number one. but it doesn't end. > capitalism comes in. come on, you guys. >> capitalism.

charlie: democratic socialism. >> some people, like capitalism, people go no. it doesn't have to be. >> you have characters in the film who say i'd rather stay poor. >> that was my plan. >> but capitalism is cruel. i don't want to be cruel. >> they want to do what they want. >> you have more power than anybody. a bit like it. itd to be somebody could write this. somebody would hang out at the beach and earn a little money here and there but mainly want to hang out on the beach and surf versus the person who did all this stuff so he can make a lot of money so that he could buy a beach house on some beach so he could surf. >> right. >> there are people especially in our industry who i know who will just, and i believe mike is one of them, one of these people like it just has to be

this way. i will not -- allow this to happen on public television. >> public television. >> walk across the street to cbs. [laughter] harlie: or comedy central. >> you could live a wonderful, fulfilled life always pursuing this middle ground. >> i'm completely comfortable with that. people always ask me aren't you afraid of -- or did you ever audition for "saturday night live" because that's whats do in the film. i've been operating on such a low level of show business for so long i was never considered o be considered. charlie: this is about you. you told a hollywood reporter i

think you have to have a difficult past to have the will to entertain especially to make people laugh. at this point i've listened to so many mark marin podcasts who has been on the show several times to just take it for granted that people who are super funny have to be at some point in their life a little screwed up. ou believe that. >> i don't. charlie: you don't believe that. >> seinfeld doesn't think so either. >> i don't think so. >> any more than you could say to run for president you have to be a little screwed up. you know. you have to have some -- >> right. i agree with that. >> i really don't. >> i think you can be happy and funny. true. we know each other well. i -- you don't seem that screwed up. >> you weren't beaten by your parents when you were 4. >> well, not --.

ring it out right now. come share your pain. >> i think there is a degree to which if you are an artist of any kind you're able to see world in this very open ended way to make observations. and you see extreme darkness and lightness and once you see it you can't unsee it. >> you're awake to your feelings. >> that may be more to the point is that you can be happy and also be the type of a person who is awake to your feelings. charlie: the question is are you awake to your feelings? >> as opposed to are you screwed up enough to do this work? because some people are awake to duty and those are the people that become soldiers and firefighters and policemen. some people are awake to their feelings and become artists and poets. i think it might be a personality type. >> yeah.

>> i think you're right about this and i'm wrong. i think actually. i renounce my previous case. >> wow. charlie: what role did he play as producer? that's what i want to know. i ira is the smartest person know. not the smartest person on earth. martest person i know. one of the smartest people on earth. smartest person i know. charlie: so why is he doing a radio show? why isn't he running the country? >> i don't know. >> i can answer that. i don't have a talent for running the country. i have a talent for making radio shows. charlie: isn't that the greatest thing in the world is to find out what you ought to be doing? >> that is the greatest thing you can do. that to me in a manner of speaking is better than falling in love. to have a sense of why you're here. there is a very large clock called earth and you are this cog and you realize, i am this cog. i got to where i ought to be.

>> there is a great line in the angela duckworth column in the times recently where she said college graduates shouldn't ask what do i want to be when i grow up. it's what world do i want to live in and how can i contribute to making that happen? charlie: what is her book called? she has this book. basically argues -- it's "grit." >> duckworth, yeah, yeah. ut ira, in terms of -- he is my editor. we have this relationship started eight years ago which is iraed its stories and i'm a comedian and i have a fascination with comedy. so when we work on stuff i defer to him in issues of story and he defers to me in issues of comedy. >> yeah. a lot of what working together is michael will have an idea for a storey and i'll be like these are the beats and he'll go out and perform it. what about this? maybe move a little quicker through here? making the film was just an extension of that.

that was my role. charlie: was there anything that both of you didn't want the film to be? >> so many things. >> to be honest with you, i think the -- if this is a studio film i don't want to spoil anything. the couple ends up together and everybody is happy and successful in the exact same way. it's not these guys. it's john crier and clair danes. these aren't the actors. it's not chris and tammy sather. it's bigger stars. >> super rio. that was in the script and then the cutting it got more real. had sort of like more hollywoodish turns. a whole plot line. they're trying to get a new theater for themselves and keep the group going. all the test audiences which showed the film twice a week when we were cutting it to public radio would actually have them come out and watch

and people wanted to see about the characters and just got invested and wanted to see what happened. >> we wanted to make the film feel more like life than a movie. which i think is something that is a little bit lost in cinema right now which is to say the films i love are films like "the big chill" and "hannah and her sisters" and "broadcast news" and "bob and carol and ted and alice" and these films that just feel like life. and they don't make those movies as much in the studios system because they don't make 10 times the money. charlie: bob walton. >> absolutely. and also the sense that looking very -- it just feels like you said, it feels right. what was the example? oh, the movie "once" about the irish busker and he meets the girl from the czech republic or whatever and you're kind of -- it has watching

that real sense about it. >> my direction almost always accurate, just imagine this is being watched 10 years from now in france with subtitles and we .ant people to go >> the improv show. >> we want to trick them. >> how are you promoting this? >> right here. >> thank god you asked. >> i'm refusing all other interviews. >> this is a weird business problem. to be in any movie you don't have that much money for advertising and you've been trekking this thing around the country. >> we were talking about suicide squad. i have two beefs with suicide squad. i haven't seen the movie but the rating on it was pg-13. ours is r. in "suicide squad" they spray people with machine guns. hundreds of people are killed. >> every character --. n our film no one is killed.

the adults smoke pot. the adults smoke pot. >> that's against the law in many states. >> in suicide squad they have like a $90 million ad budget and we don't have that. so it is just me traveling around the country and saying if you like movies like this go see it. charlie: "don't think twice" is the movie. it's opening in hundreds of theaters the next few weeks. go find this movie. don't think twice. >> don't think twice.com. charlie: that'll help you find this movie. >> there you go. charlie: thank you, guys. a pleasure. >> actually don't think twice movie.com. >> there it is. i apologize. charlie: don't think twice movie.com. back in a moment. stay with us.

>> this is the season of the boys of summer, baseball. there are 30 major league teams which have a shot at the world series but also in thousands of smaller cities, towns, and little hamlets young boys and girls are playing america's pastime. e of the most special is corinda, iowa, where young aspiring ball players have gone to pursue their dreams over the summer among them the great hall of famer ozzie smith. a "new york times" washington editor has written a marvelous

book "the baseball whisperer" about a legendary coach and the values and virtues of a small midwestern community. thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> what is unique about this town, about the team, population 5,000. >> corinda is a place where they want to provide opportunity. they open their arms. they extend their families. they give opportunity to players. is a place in the southwest corner of iowa two hours from omaha, kansas city, des moines. you've never been there and it would be hard to find it yet it has attracted thousands of young men coming to pursue their dreams to play baseball. most from college. while the story is rooted in baseball it's about more than baseball. it's about this place. this place where there's this sense of community and openness where they give of themselves. they give of their time. they give of their families and they don't expect anything in return.

>> the coach who launched this was a legend and passed away while you were writing this book. tell us about him. > fascinating character. he grew up in rural iowa during the depression. his parents got divorced which was unusual. he had a very tough youth. he dropped out of school. he started drinking. he had all sorts of problems and was living in omaha with his mother and she said you need to go back to clarinda to straighten yourself up. he did and the community opened up and took him in. he eventually met a coach who sort of redeemed him by challenging him. merrell wanted to be challenged. he wanted somebody to see in him the potential he knew he had. he finally found that in the coach and became a stand out athlete and he realized that coach had done something special for him so he dedicated is life to doing that. >> the town, 5,000, small. they took in these players.

i am a little envious of you. i am not from the midwest. but there is something special about little midwestern towns. >> i would like to think so. part of it is there is a calm. people have a slower pace. that is not a cliche'. in this particular case it is the kind of place you think lives in myth. the town square has all local businesses. the county courthouse has been restored beautifully. everybody knows ever. almost everybody is a participant in the clarinda a's baseball. >> it is a book about that town but when we man talk about the thousands of players who played there we have to start with the greatest of all, hall of famer ozzie smith. what was it like when ozzie smith got to clarinda? he was coming from l.a.? >> he grows up in south central l.a. and goes to the corn fields of iowa. his coach puts him on the plane. he has never been to the midwest. the only word he can summon is corn.

that is the only image he has of coming to the midwest. he lands there. he goes down to the practice field and merle thinks here this is skinny, 140-pound kid. he's never going to make it. he grabs a bucket of walls. he hits them to ozzy. hits them harder and harder one after another. left to right. ozzie doesn't miss a single one. he finally looks up and says coach don't you realize you can't get one past me? that's when merle knew he had somebody really special. >> he really helped develop ozzie smith. did ozzie do his flip when he was in clarinda? >> he actually did it. it became a signature move. one other thing about that about how he ingratiated himself in the community. all the players had to have jobs. so ozzie worked on a construction crew and his job was to run a jack hammer. this is a small man at that point. 140 pounds. and he said he used to go to the games and his arms were still shaking from running that jack hammer. >> in 1982 after ozzie was in the major leagues, hall of fame short stop, st. louis cardinals

were in the world series, and everlees from clarinda to be at his house as his guests. what happened before the game? >> he bought a card table and was trying to take it out of the box and one of the staples went right into his thumb. this is the world series. this is the short stop star. they really need this player. he is thinking oh, my gosh what am i going to do? merle said ozzie do you have a lemon? he said, well yes i do. he goes well go get it. he cut the lemon in half. he said stick your thumb in there. it is going to sting. he did. it stung and all of a sudden his thumb was healed. >> and ozzie smith was ozzie smith the next day. has he stayed in touch with the community? >> he has. it shows what the program is all about. the everlees got to go to all the playoff games with him in st. louis. when ozzie was inducted into the hall of fame he had two seats reserved for merle and pat everlee reserved in

cooperstown and he goes back every winter to help raise money at their fundraising banquet. he stays in their home and is like a surrogate son. >> that's great. another ball player went to the majors and didn't quite have ozzie's career. he came from a fabled family a man named darryl miller whose brother was reggie. sister was sheryl. when he arrived in iowa he was a pretty fair player but things didn't start off so well for im did they? >> they really didn't. merle was really hard on him and he wondered why is he so mean to me. >> he thought at first wow is this guy a racist and then he realized he is not at all and ends up loving merle. one thing merle would do is have the catchers learn the position and would take a catcher's mitt and paut piece of plywood on the top of it so the catcher wouldn't catch the ball but had to learn to block the ball. darryl liked to tell -- guys liked to brag about what great basketball players they were and darryl looked down and said

my little brother could school you and he said in fact my little sister could school you and i think he was probably right. >> no question about that. you got a number of really good reviews. st. louis and des moines and mlb.com. there was one exception, the wall street journal, which said this book was nice, sweet, but a naive trip down memory lane with the old saw that it was better in the old days. >> well, i think what i got from reading that was the reviewer had a point that he wanted to make. his point was going to be, all these people who talk about nostalgia, that's wrong. in doing that in my own view i think he missed the point of the book which was to go way beyond baseball, way beyond any notion of nostalgia and rather to tell the story about a place. but on the other hand you take the good with the bad and you try to accept it. >> that's for sure. he also said that you -- the book suffered under the illusion that baseball is supposed to be more about george patton and john wayne

who were two of merle's idols, than about bryce harper and mike trout. baseball today. more about john wayne and george patton or more about bryce harper and mike trout? >> bryce harper and mike trout no doubt about it. one of the reasons? ask bryce harper about the history of the game and he can tell you a lot of things. he is very fluent. >> he studied ted williams' batting habits even. those guys, the trouts and the harpers we may not read about them as much and the trey turners our new phenom i have to say in washington but they engage in that kind of discipline and hard work and that old fashioned working, taking 500 swings and everything didn't they? i mean, that's not naive and old fashioned. that's still current. >> that's still hard work. you can argue they work out even harder than some of the other players because they know that is the way you separate yourself. >> how do you think the game has changed? how is it different from even when ozzie smith came up? >> in some ways it's more about

power now. the players are just physically bigger. you can see that. it is more about speed and pitching. there were pitchers like sandy cow fax who could -- koufax who could have pitched in any generation but now more guys throw 95 miles an hour and above and more people can hit the ball further than before. in a way it is more of a power game but power that can be neutralized because a power pitcher can sometimes neutralize a power hitter. ♪

>> "with all due respect" we hardly knew you. joshua: tgif. mark and john are off this summer friday, so margaret and i am here in washington, d.c., to do the show. august is a boring month for presidential campaigns. not much is going on. it doesn't always -->> paul manafort, the trump campaign chairman, out. joshua: or maybe not. trump's pivot is taking many forms today. as the a.p. revealed further