alex: i'm alex wagner. john: and i'm john heilemann. today, your legacy was challenged by a guy who knows a little bit about films. >> the scandal you are watching will be like a teapot dome scandal and maybe bigger. john: oh, really, you may not short worst out but when he does get teamed up to me tends to shout as opposed to those of us

who get a handle on things before we spout off. hillary clinton path team and trying to swat down questions about her family's foundation after the ap or worded half of clinton's nongovernment meetings were with donors. her team has pointed out those 150 meetings were called for more than 1700 sit downs. clinton help with others and officials in her tenure and many on the list like a nobel peace prize winner were hardly clinton cronies and were appropriate for her to be meeting with that secretary of state. clinton at his rally in florida and the gop communications director suggested the democratic nominee has been hiding from reporters. the interesting thing -- for 263 days, hillary clinton has yet to face the press.

why doesn't she face the press and talk about the work they have done and answer some of the questions. john: as it happens, hillary clinton's campaign was asked about this thing this morning. her outouldn't she put there to answer questions if your defense is true? out there answering questions. she's done over 300 interviews this year and takes questions in a variety of formats and we will keep looking at that. nobody is asking donald trump about his foreign connections -- >> i'm asking your questions about why not do a press conference today as a strategy theelp you eradicate conception there's anything shady going on. >> she has been answering questions and i think all we would ask is that people don't cherry pick. out: politico has a story

with clinton's basic strategy to run out the clock and ride out the foundation controversy until the election because they have a comfortable lead. the old four corners office. john: is that a smart approach? moment, i don't think it is a smart approach, though it is not surprising it is their approach. they haveplaybook been using for a long time, which is deny, deny a delegate to a crisis point and then a b gill with that even though it gives the crisis longer legs in the end. what is different about this time for the clintons to have been in public life for so long is this the of media and with this candidate she is running against, the changing weather patterns in the 2016 race. clinton needs to come out and

say something, anything, to clarify for the public and move on. it's time for another story to take the lead. the clinton campaign has been trying to systematically undermine it and they have pointed out real flaws in the story, that it only takes part of her time as secretary of gete, but even if you just the evidence presented, it is troublesome and i'm in the camp of people who thinks even if there is no quit pro-quote, the notion that there's a fast track of access, that you can write a check and get easy access through the foundation and get in to see hillary clinton quicker because you wrote a check. just the access point i think is a problem. people are going to point to the speaking fees and donors who got the access. of thate connections

kind. i think she needs to do a press conference. i think she's to do a press conference soon and she would be smart to come out and say we are talking about shutting this foundation if i'm president and we are going to shut it off today in for the whole thing behind us. the: there is another move clinton campaign has been using to fight these tories. the campaign has been trying to shift the focus back to donald trump posting a -- posting a listing of things, including trump supported that to the bank of china, his refusal to release his tax returns. tomorrow, clinton is expected to give a speech about being embedded in the alt right. given the litany, which should trump the most worried about? biggestthink the problem, the one likely to have the most traction continues to 's strong -- trump entanglement with foreign governments, including the

russian federation. paul manafort no longer in the campaign, there is smoke there and the fact that putin wants trump to win and the fact that there are hacked e-mails, we have some of those and there may be more coming out and there's russian involvement there. russian tampering with an american election, the case that it might be doing that in favor of donald trump is unsettling to a lot of americans and something donald trump has not yet remote the put to rest. alex: at the risk of being boring, russia is embedded in the lizard brain of americans as our cold war adversary and there's no way getting around that. even for low information voters, it doesn't seem like a good thing, nor does it seem like this is a person who should be tasked with upholding the american ideal. i'm interested as to why the trump web of financial dealings has not gotten more traction, especially given his connection

to the bank of china and his strident remarks about the chinese. is becausehink it the web of connections is so complicated that most people just gave up on the story when it was first published. john: i do agree with that but i want to focus on the tax returns. donald trump needs to release his taxes. but eric trump, his son, said he, eric trump, is the biggest proponent -- or opponent of the idea of releasing his taxes. donald trump should release his taxes. it hasn't gotten enough traction. alex: three more months still. john: bernie sanders is set to launch his post campaign political group this evening. the group is called our revolution and it was envisioned to continue pursuing the sanders agenda, similar to the way howard dean did after he ran for president. but once was once a populist force that threatens to defeat

hillary clinton or disrupt the convention is now beset by turmoil, infighting over the group's leadership and fundraising has led to mass resignations over the weekend and a lot of criticism of jeff weaver who is now running the operation, the folks who help sanders raise more than $200 million for the nomination fight have only cost up $300,000, which is not much to support progressive down ballot candidates. as bernie prepares to speak to his rose, whether the sanders revolution? by thism not surprised at all. so much of the sanders campaign message was predicated on this idea that government was rogan, corrupt and full of cronyism and now it's ok, we should be invested in those running for office who are not bernie sanders and we should be engaged in the mechanics of governance and invested in a way and that just seems to be fundamentally in opposition to the message of

bernie sanders. i guess some people quit because they don't like jeff weaver's style but i think at the core, you are right. it's not a grassroots organization to pursue and issued -- issues based movement. it's an election season and in whatend the money bernie sanders told us was a broken campaign finance system. it is a little bit establishment the way they are going about doing this and if i were trying to run the sanders revolution, i would figure out a different way to set it up so that it was more issue-based rather than money and candidate based. next, we will talk about how the clinton campaign's handling donald trump us trump'sion strategy -- immigration strategy. ♪

alex: our first guest tonight is steele, -- michael former chair of the republican party is with us from washington, d.c. and out in california, los angeles or los angeles, california some human formerlike to call it is deputy press secretary, bill burton. michael steele, let me start with you. if one can still hit it in american politics, it feels like the trump campaign is engaged in a kind of vivid as the candidate has been talking about immigration policies and these -- the last week of if one can call it outreach to minority voters, offering the nihilistic

message, what have you got to lose. how effective is this? don't think it's necessarily effective to those constituencies that are just not down with trump. i think the vast majority of the black community has long made up its mind. the number won't be 1% on election day, but it certainly will not be 20. i know there's a lot more work to do, certainly on the immigration front, a lot of bridges are current with the hispanic community, but the narrative and conversation goes beyond those constituencies. it's going really in-your-face to those voters who are still on the fence and undecided. yes there are some, and to white female voters who are looking at this race and starting to look at this race as this thing into labor day and beyond, i think it's the of propria time. it's not a full pivot, it's more

like a slight lead, but is an effort to move the narrative into fronts. one, as you just discussed with hillary clinton and number two, to identify with these other constituents. john: you have this washington post story today inside donald trump's new strategy to counter the view that he is racist. not a great headline or either nominee -- just bluntly speaking, he is doing it a lot. i thought he might do it for a couple of days and then stop, but he seems to be doing it in a sustained way, talking about african-american voters and reporting he's going to actually go to black neighborhoods and talk to actual black and set of talking to lack people in the audience with whites as a surrogate. whitehis really help with

suburban women? that republican leaning white suburban women will hear this and say he's not a racist. any chance that works? disagree that's what he's trying to do but the way he is going about it is so condescending and to talk about the african-american community like it is a monolith of jobless, crime-ridden neighborhoods. it's a lot more complicated than that and a lot of people, especially college-educated white women have more common sense than to think the way donald trump is talking about this will have any impact. it's not a great sign if your vice presidential nominee, mike pence is laughing at the strategy and interviews. i don't think it's going that well with all due respect to michael steele, who said it is a you are a let and not a pivot, which i think is more dramatic. -- zero at.r let

that we are getting deep into choreography. is think donald trump presumably going to get 2% of the black vote. i just wonder using the language he's using and painting the picture of lack america as one mired in its own poverty, people getting shot walking down the street, this incredibly apocalyptic and despond and existence all black americans live in, doesn't that run the at least someting of the people you would like to have on your side? does.l: it is and it it's a bifurcated argument, if you will. horrorsjust about the that may or may not exist in any given community is one conversation. good thingsng those

that are actually happening where folks are taking their own initiative, not necessarily relying on a program or some government outreach, but there ,re genuine efforts, grassroots native to the community, whether it's entrepreneurs or teachers or local community leaders also trying to deal with the systemic issues. what donald trump has to do is marry those two conversations and give a full throated and realistic view of what is happening in the community. if you are going to talk about my community, show up and understand what is going on, the good, the bad and the not so ugly and then share with me how you propose to get to the next level. the: i'm going to shift to democratic side and ask you this question -- you were with the democratic campaign when president-elect obama was courting hillary clinton be secretary of state and you are

in the white house and i think we are aware president obama really wanted to have a big wall between the clinton foundation and the secretary of state's office when he appointed hillary clinton. knowing what we now currently no comment do you think she abided by the spirit or letter of what he wanted in terms of shielding herself from clinton foundation donors? build: absolutely. at this story and what we are talking about, it's a small sliver of clinton foundation donors and the meetings she had. we are talking about 185 meetings out of 17,000. we're talking about 85 donors out of 7000. if it's hate to play, not a lot of people are paying to play. do you think president obama, if i asked him if he envisioned a state department would write on behalf of clinton foundation donors that barack obama would have

said that's fine with the? bill: i don't think he would be engaged with what he was up to but if you are talking about a nobel laureate coming to see the secretary of state, someone who has done more to lift people out of poverty in the developing world, i guess you would assume that person would meet with the secretary of state. melinda gates is probably not the best example but if you look at the exit and entry roles, do you think president obama would be happy if half the civilians he met with were over, donors? bill: first of all, it is not half. slivere -- a small tiny of the she met with and president obama, while president of the united states have had meetings with people who gave money during the times he was president. industry orers of leaders in the nonprofit world, they do come in and have meetings with people in

government and meet about things they're working on. the fact that secretary clinton was engaged in this should not be a surprise to anyone and should not be as height of as it has in by the media. michael: i say all of that as well and good but that's not how the american people are reading it and is one of the reasons they have this high level of trust -- high level of distrust about hillary clinton. alex: bill burton and michael steele, thank you for your time. coming up, we have a cardinal classic with you, our conversation with the ragin' cajuns, coming up. ♪

john: in bookstores across the

country, you can find the image of donald trump's head emerging out of an elephant's bum. it written by hyper partisan democratic strategist and clinton's super ally, james carville stop by to talk about the presidential race and these of his new book. to successful had democratic presidents sandwich by two disastrous republican presidents. am making,case i particularly on the economy by every measure that you can comment, kratz have outperformed republicans and it hasn't been close. we go on from there to issues toe climate and overreaction ebola and environmental regulations. one of the favorite parts of my book is the united states and

north carolina -- he did not think russian workers should be forced to wash their hands. i think it's reasonable for the guy who makes the salad to wash his hands. john: i am pro-handwashing. alex: what's with the idea that trump is offering voters something new that they have nothing left to lose. james: you to understand it you can't win with 40%. what hashave said happened is year is a hostile takeover of the republican party. changed parties six or seven times and people around him are -- the democratic party is happy with this candidate and the republican party is in this array. how did it happen? : the democratic party is more and automation of different interest groups. if youared things but

have cultivated -- it's a huge fight over white working-class, non-college white, i don't know how many meetings, we have to get these people, it's the reagan democrats, the guy with a gun rack and the pickup truck and a hunting dog. one day, we just lost them. a were gone. they all became republican. majority of the republican party or at least have 2%. trump comes in and stimulates that them a graphic unbelievably. he does enormously well and then is republican party fractured to the point were a lot of people think and i'm probably one of them that for the first time in history of polling, democrats have a chance to carry college whites who are

the reagan democrats, soccer moms, the veterans, you name it am a key demographic here. alex: do you think in the next three or four election cycles, the democrat and a chance of doing house? dave washington, my go-to guy says they need to win by seven points. they need to win the house popular vote by seven. i hope -- if we don't do it this time, we don't have a chance. the pill to climb. it's not impossible. i would be shocked if we lost the presidency. i would be surprised if we didn't win the senate, i'm not -- i think democrats will have a good year. will it be good enough to the fact that

democrats overwhelm in the city and to some extent, gerrymander. when people ask what can i do to help the democratic party, my answer usually is move. if you are watching us in washington, d.c., you can listen to us on the radio at 99.1 fm. we will be right back. ♪

alex: you know you loved it and now it's time to go to part two with our interview with james carville. john: my question about the

democratic party is this -- it's obviously true the republican party at the national novel, the republican party is successful and most statehouses and state legislatures controlled oath the senate and house at least for the moment that the democratic party the presidential level is little rocky and i want to look award to hillary clinton but just look back to one moment -- was there any time you thought she might lose to bernie sanders? say i wasn'tt nervous, but i never thought she would lose. you would and say have you seen this and i would get nervous and come back in think you have to have this much of this and that much of that and i don't get nervous. we know we are going to have a bunch more e-mails come out in october and a lot of donors had a lot of access to her. how much of a threat is it given that it the biggest political

threat i can see right now. james: if i were running the campaign and giving political advice, i would say shut it down. a baduman being, makes me person because people are going to die. no one said of abdul was the majority leader and you is head of the red cross -- if george h.w. bush is raising money for the library when his son was president, that's fine. e-mail and me an pointed out the points of life were -- points of light were started by george h.w. bush while he was still in office. the foundation -- i will say this and move on to something else. the thing i most proud of is he stopped a genocide in the human be the endect will of the foundation but the

cognizant the have decided they don't like it. clinton one thinks the foundation doesn't do good work. no one argues that. it's for theay clinton lifestyle. john: there are some people in the far right you say that but by and large, people and knowledge the clinton foundation does good work. abouteople were concerned is that the clintons have acknowledged they are going to effectively get out of that is this is he becomes president of the united states. people look at when she was secretary of state and had access to her. it's a out the access. example -- thean crown prince of rain who already got the meeting through normal channels who is probably the most important ally to the u.s. mark alex: there was a story in

the ap about half the donors -- james: let me tell you why -- the press has decided they don't like it. it never bothered them when bob dole was the majority leader and elizabeth told was the red cross. it didn't bother me when president bush started the points of light. .hey have to have their victory they're going to have their victory. people are going to die. alex: what about the obama white house? the obama white house put limitations on the clinton foundation. they can impose whatever limitations. being,k that as a human that i would say you need to shut it down to satisfy a ravenous press that cannot distinguish between what the

hell is going on. i think i'm a sorry human eating. children that my i think we should shut this down to satisfyple died some people in manhattan and georgetown. -- you look at the trump campaign and the figures around donald trump now -- steve that an from breitbart, sean hannity and roger ailes. wing media who bought. what does that tell you about the campaign? what can that tell you about what its purposes? james: the conspiracy which i think makes some sense is that they are setting up to have a news network. i figure will probably be pay-per-view. there's a thought on the right that people get a pure white --

pure right wing message that the people out there are ready to rise up in -- rise up in revolt against the elites, we will see if they are right in this election cycle. there's no moderating effect on this. see rogerdon't just ailes as a savvy political operative. was one of thee three best political operatives in my lifetime. are you not worried at all about the fact that someone put aside sean hannity at the moment, are you concerned about roger ailes and his involvement just as a pyramid can i? james: i think he is very formidable. alex: what about in the debates? james: i think she's going to do

fine in the debates. trump has never had a one-on-one debate. obamas debated president any number of times. she had one-on-one's with bernie sanders. she does find in debates. ishouldn't say this, but expect her to do great. john: she's going to clean his clock? abouts a possibility of james carville being the stand-in for donald trump during the debate. there's absolutely no truth and it would be stupid for me to do it and i will tell you why. in order to do this right, takes about 100 hours of prep. you have to sit there and listen to every answer donald trump gives, every con -- every come way jamesthere's no carville is going to sit down,

look and listen at 100 hours of tape of donald trump. alex: so who should play trump? james: i'm partial to bob barnett. he played push in 92, but i don't know. any number of people in politics now, it has to be somebody that sits and knows every answer to every question he's ever given and the only way you can do that is you have to go through all the takes, all the questions. it can't be done in any other way. alex: will the country ever come back together to the moment where we used to have landslide elections mark james: i wrote a book in 2008 and i said 40 more years. it was very difficult. what will happen in this election?

the wall street journal editorial page will say this election didn't count. she really didn't win because she be trump -- she shouldn't appoint anybody to the supreme court, we need to wait have a real election in 2020. i can tell you this is exactly what is going to happen. jamesour many thanks to carville. his new book is i'm still right and they are still wrong. ♪

john: donald trump's rally this afternoon was in tampa, a city

on the famous quarter were in florida, a stretch of highway to run through the middle of the sun sign -- sunshine state and are presented million half voters with no clear party affiliation. cooler tour resident brave the heat on a road trip through the heart of the aforementioned sunshine state. >> i'm driving the stretch of highway from daytona beach to tampa. this interstate runs across central florida beginning in volusia county which voted for obama in 2008, then romney in 2012. the i-5 cord or is the ultimate battleground region and the ultimate battleground state. at exit 108, i came across a dog part where i met matthew.

>> it's hard as a liberal to talk to a conservative about politics. i don't want to vote in a way that enables the political divide to keep growing wider and wider. >> he says he's considering a third-party vote. as an undergrad studying psychology, he says presidential candidates have alarming traits. >> there is something called the dark triad. politicians tend to have overrepresented traits of machiavellianism and narcissism. it's one of the best things to look at to apply what you've learned in a textbook and if instructive and awful and discouraging. >> probably one of the most important elections in our history. the first time i ever ran for office, imad gulf war veteran

and it's time for me to be engaged and serve my community. the next president will choose three or possibly five justices. you may not like trump but i'm going to vote for trump because he has the stronger platform. >> while i never saw any presidential billboards along i-4, tonya in orlando says she has been inundated with tv ads. >> there's a lot. it's a lot of the same old stuff. hillary is a liar and so is trump. and was her on the news hearing about donald trump and how he was apologizing. it needs -- it's going to take a couple of years for him to may

gain back my trust. >> that would be the first freedom i gave you is freedom of your opinion. she's in favor of hillary, but i'm in favor of trump. >> we are always fighting. my -- start yelling and my mom will join my side or sometimes in the wing on his side full top >> i want a better choice of words, yes. trump.not leaning toward absolutely. it amazes me that he has made it this far. i think it's a joke and it scary. it really is. >> i have been a special education teacher for 37 years and i've always been for the underdog. >> i told her it's been hard to get floridians to talk politics. >> people are mom about it. they don't want the controversy.

it's not a good thing. it needs to be about the events of our time and how we need to solve the problem and not i'm this or that and you cannot talk me out of it. >> this country is not a business and you cannot run it like a company. from his side is to take the whole word. >> he told me he trusts that voters will make the right decision in november. >> there are a lot of wise people here. they will make the right decision on what's going to affect us in the long run. up next, we go to debate prep school with a sarah palin impressionists, governor granholm.

♪

>> nuclear iran is one of our greatest threat. what would a mccain administration do to stop it? nucleare subject of iran, senator oh biden and i are in agreement that they cannot acquire nuclear weapons. we will fight for it and there's only one man in this race who has really ever fought for you and that is senator john mccain. alex: that is julian moore playing sarah palin.

our next guest knows a thing or two about playing palin in debate prep. she's a former governor of michigan and advisor to correct the record and was the stand-in for sarah palin during joe for they vice presidential debate. how did you end up playing sarah palin in that debate? governor granholm: it's a great question. i think he probably picked me because i was not a washington insider. i was a governor and she's a governor, so i think i'm the only governor who had small children at home, so there were a lot of similarities in terms of personal circumstances, so they called, i accepted, and i heard you talking to james carville and it requires a huge amount of rep. john: the reason we -- huge amount of prep.

john: there's a lot of speculation about who is going to play donald trump. these are both large challenges because those people are famous and at least in one case, they have outsized personalities. what did you do to transform yourself into sarah palin? : if you'reanholm going to play the person, you have to internalize them. you have to become that character and believe in the character even though in sarah palin's case mother was a lot of terrible stories leading up to that. i went in and watched every single debate she never done and i read all of her statements and read everything i possibly could. i knew what persona she brought to this match so that i was able to once i got there be able to try out both lines of attack on joe biden as well as respond in

a way i thought sarah palin would respond. alex: one of the hurdles, it who's like for anyone going to play trump is someone who is willing to assault verbally or rhetorically or however you want to describe it, secretary clinton. there's a lot of thinking that he is going to open up the cannon fodder when they take the debate stage and who is raven of to do that to secretary clinton in debate prep? palino us about playing and how much of a concern that was for you. governor granholm: the candidate you are assisting is mature and they understand they have to go through this. it's not a pleasant experience. they know the opposition research the other side has is potential game in a debate.

certainly, hillary clinton has prepared to stand in has to be willing to go there and if they don't go there, they are not doing their job. they have to get her used to this line of attack. after heroing to come 12 different ways on issues that may seem wholly and there but a have to get comfortable with the answer, comfortable enough that she can respond and pivot to an attack on him or come out with azinger and answer in a way that makes her above the potential of attack. i'm going to make you casting director right now. who would make a good trump? governor granholm: i'm of the theory that trump is so odd that you might want to bring in a couple of different people. i like the idea of someone like mark cuban.

because he is an out writer and bring aguy come if you nature additional politician, you may not be thinking like an out tighter business guy. you have to have someone willing to put aside their life for a couple of weeks to do that and i'm not sure he could do that. have an array of people who could don the mantle, don the whatever of donald trump, but i only say that because i had glasses. i didn't wear a wig but you have to embody the persona. putting a fewa of people in there, assuming they are trusted people. you don't want them coming out blabbing away. john: you like the idea of rundell? thernor granholm: i love idea, he just has to sign a nondisclosure agreement. alex: was there one awkward moment you can share from debate prep? governor granholm: i'm not

saying a word but there were definitely awkward moments. you want there to be awkward moments. you want to go to a place where your candidate is totally uncomfortable and if you are doing it right, the people running the debate prep are feeding you lines as the stand-in that they know are going to come across to make the candidate very uncomfortable. but it is all for the greater good because you want to inoculate them against what you know is coming. if i were on the other side looking at donald trump, you have to be careful about how harsh you are going to come across. the goal coming out of the debate is to have people like you. but: it sounds like a plum also unenviable job. governor jennifer granholm, thank you for your time. we will be right back. ♪

john: one quick correction before we go -- i said the hillary clinton team is stressing she met with a lot of people -- the correct number of meetings she held was around 1700, not dean thousand as i foolishly that. had to bloomberg politics now to read about why trump's dig tax cuts are not swaying the nerds in silicon valley. west" up on "bloomberg the director of red rock. alex, will you be back tomorrow? alex: i will. john: i say sayonara. what do you say? namaste. ♪

mark: i'm mark crumpton. you're watching "bloomberg west." elite civil protection agency says the death toll from today's earthquake stands at 159. the country's health minister

told the associated trust that many children are among the dead. the magnitude six wake reduced three central italian towns to rubble. a magnitude 6.8 earthquake shook myanmar earlier today, killing at least three people and damaging at least 100 ancient nudist temples. militants attacked the american university of it -- of afghanistan earlier today. at least one person was killed and 18 others wounded. afghan police are unsure about the number of attackers. many donationays -- many donors to the clinton foundation met with hillary clinton while she was secretary of state. more than half the people outside government who met with secretary clinton during that time gave money to the foundation. the clinton campaign calls the report a distorted or trail. donald is urging african-americans and hispanics living in inner cities to give him a chance. speaking in tampa, florida,