alex: i'm alex wagner. john: and i'm john heilemann. and with all due respect to warren g. harding, today, your legacy was challenged by a guy who knows little bit about domes. >> the scandal you are watching will be like a teapot dome scandal in the 1920's and maybe bigger. ♪ john: oh, rudy, you may not be excessively short boards stout, but when he gets

to steamed up, he tends shout, as opposed to those of us who get a handle on things before we spout off. hillary clinton path team and they are day trying to swat down questions about her family's foundation after the ap or worded half of clinton's nongovernment meetings were with donors. over the last 24 hours, her team has pointed out those 150 meetings were culled for more than 1700 sit downs. clinton help with others and officials in her tenure and many on the list like a nobel peace prize winner were hardly clinton cronies and were appropriate for her to be meeting with that secretary of state. still, republicans kept up the pressure. rallyhad claimed at his in tampa, florida, and the newly floridaed person out of suggested the democratic nominee has been hiding from reporters. >> here's the interesting thing -- for 263 days, hillary clinton has yet to face the press.

instead of sending out her spokesman, why doesn't she face the press and talk about the work they have done and answer some of the questions. john: as it happens, hillary clinton's campaign manager robby mook was asked about this thing this morning. >> why wouldn't she put her out there to answer questions if your defense is true? robby: well, she is out there answering questions. she's done over 300 interviews this year. and she takes questions in a variety of formats and we will keep looking at that. i guess my push back here is that nobody is asking donald trump about his foreign connections -- >> i'm asking you a questions about why not do a press conference today as a strategy to help you eradicate the conception there's anything shady going on. robby: we are considering everything everyday. she has been answering questions and i think all we would ask is that people don't cherry pick. john: the politico has a story

out suggesting that clinton's basic strategy to run out the clock and ride out the foundation controversy until the election, because they have a comfortable lead. alex, if that is truly the linton's strategy, the old four corners office. alex: the old four corners office. john: is that a smart approach? alex: at this moment, i don't think it is a smart approach, though it is also not surprising that it is their approach. this is a playbook they have been using for a long time, which is denied, deny, deny crisis point,to a and that makes it even worse, but what has changed about this time for the clintons to have been in public life for so long is this the of media and with this candidate she is running against, the changing weather patterns in the 2016 race. i think clinton needs to come

out and say something, anything, to clarify for the public and move on. which is entirely possible. there may be three months left but it is plenty of time for another story to take the lead. john: i want to say another thing. especially this ap story. the clinton campaign has been trying to systematically undermine it and they have pointed out real flaws in the story, that it only takes part of her time as secretary of state, but even if you just get the evidence presented, it is still to my mind troubling. and i'm in the camp of people who thinks even if there is no quid pro quo, the notion that there's a fast track of access, that you can write a check and you can then get easy access through the foundation and get to houma aberdeen and hillary clinton quicker because you wrote a check. just the access point i think is a problem. people are going to point to the speaking fees and donors who got the access.

there are connections of that kind. i think she needs to do a press conference. i think she's to do a press conference soon and she would be smart to come out and say we are talking about shutting this foundation if i'm president and we are going to shut it off today. and put the whole thing behind us. alex: there is another move the clinton campaign has been using to fight these stories. for the past few days, the campaign has been trying to shift the focus back to donald including a listing of things, including trump supported that to the bank of china, his refusal to release his tax returns. tomorrow, clinton is expected to give a speech accusing donald trump of being embedded in the alt right. given the litany, which should trump be the most worried about? john: i think the biggest problem, the one likely to have the most traction continues to be trump's entanglement with foreign governments, including the russian federation. i think the things that happened

over the last month, even with paul manafort no longer in the campaign, there is smoke there and the fact that putin wants trump to win and the fact that there are hacked e-mails, we have some of those and there may be more coming out and there's russian involvement there. russian tampering with an american election, on the surface, the case that it might be doing that in favor of donald trump is unsettling to a lot of americans and something donald trump has not yet remotely put to rest. alex: at the risk of being boring, russia is embedded in the lizard brain of americans as our cold war adversary and there's no way getting around that. for even for low information voters, it doesn't seem like a good thing, nor does it seem like this is a person who should be tasked with upholding the american democratic ideals. i think i'm interested as to why the trump web of financial dealings has not gotten more traction, especially given his connection to the bank of china and his strident remarks about

the chinese. i tend to think it is because the web of connections is so complicated that most people just actually kind of gave up on the story when it was first published. john: i do agree with that but i want to focus on the tax returns. it has been a bugbear for me. donald trump needs to release his taxes. but eric trump, his son, said he, eric trump, is the biggest proponent -- or opponent of the idea of releasing his taxes. donald trump should release his taxes. it hasn't gotten nearly enough traction. and he needs to do it. alex: three more months still. john: bernie sanders is set to launch his post-campaign political group this evening. the group is called our revolution, and it was envisioned to continue pursuing the sanders agenda, similar to the way that howard dean's grassroots action did after he ran for president. but once was once a populist force that threatens to defeat hillary clinton or more recently

disrupt the convention is now beset by turmoil, infighting over the group's leadership and fundraising has led to mass resignations. those happened over the weekend. and a lot of criticism of jeff weaver who is now running the operation, the folks who help sanders raise more than $200 million for the nomination fight up $300,000,ghed which is not much to support progressive down ballot candidates. as bernie prepares to speaks to sistas, whether the sanders revolution? alex: i'm not surprised by this at all. so much of the sanders campaign message was predicated on this idea that government was broken, corrupt, and full of cronyism and now it's ok, we should be invested in those running for office who are not bernie sanders and we should be engaged in the mechanics of government and governance and invested in a way and that just seems to be fundamentally in opposition to

the message they got people excited about bernie sanders. john: i guess some people quit because they don't like jeff weaver;s style, and he can be a brusque guy, but i think at the core, you are right. it's not a grassroots organization to pursue issues-based movement. it's an election season and let's spend the money in what bernie sanders told us was a broken campaign finance system. it is sort of like a little bit establishment the way they are going about doing this and if i were trying to run the sanders revolution, i would figure out a different way to set it up so that it was more issue-based rather than money and candidate based. alex: up next, we will talk about how the clinton campaign's handling donald trump's immigration strategy. but first, these words from john's sponsors. ♪

♪ alex: our first guest tonight is two guests tonight. michael steele, former chair of the republican party, with us from washington, d.c. and out in california, los angeles, california, as some human beings like to call it is former deputy press secretary, bill burton. gentlemen, thank you for joining us. michael steele, let me start with you. if one can still hit it in american politics, it feels like the trump campaign is engaged in , as thef pivot candidate has been talking laudably about immigration policies and these -- the last week of if one can call it outreach to minority voters, offering the nihilistic message, aspirational message, what else

do you have to lose? how effective is this? michael: i don't think it's necessarily effective to those constituencies that are just not down with trump. i mean, i think the vast majority of the black community has long made up its mind. the number won't be 1% on election day, but it certainly will not be 20. so, i know there's a lot more work to do, certainly on the immigration front, a lot of bridges are burned with the hispanic community, but the narrative and conversation goes beyond those constituencies. it's going really in-your-face if you will a little bit to those voters who are still on the fence and undecided. yes, there are some, and to independent voters, etc. to white female voters who are looking at this race and starting to look at this race as this thing into labor day and beyond, i think it's the of appropriate time. it's not a full pivot, it's more

like a slight. iroutte. but is an effort to move the narrative into fronts. one, as you just discussed with hillary clinton and number two, to identify with these other constituents. john: bell, let me ask you you , have this washington post story today inside donald trump's new strategy to counter the view that he is racist. not a great headline or either nominee. is there any -- just bluntly speaking, he is doing it a lot. i thought he might do it for a couple of days and then stop, but he seems to be doing it in a sustained way, talking about african-american voters and the story reporting he's going to actually go to black neighborhoods and talk to actual black people as opposed to talking to lack people in the audience with whites as a surrogate. alex: talking to mostly white people.

john: does this really help with white suburban women? that republican leaning white suburban women will hear this and maybe say he's not a racist. any chance that works? certainlyink it is what he is trying to do. but it is so disingenuous. that's what he's trying to do but the way he is going about it is so condescending and to talk about the african-american community like it is a monolith of jobless, crime-ridden neighborhoods. it's a lot more complicated than that and a lot of people, especially college-educated white women that apparently donald trump is trying to reach out to apparently have more common sense than to think the way donald trump is talking about this will have any impact. and i will say it's not a great sign if your vice presidential nominee, mike pence, is laughing at the strategy and interviews. i don't think it's going that well, with all due respect to michael steele, who said it is iroutte.vot, but a p

which i think is more dramatic. alex: i like that we are getting deep into choreography. you think donald trump is going to get, presumably going to get 2% of the black vote. in the swing states, i just wonder using the language he's using and painting the picture of lack america as one mired in its own poverty, people getting shot walking down the street, this incredibly apocalyptic and despondent existence all black americans live in, doesn't that run the risk of alienating at least some of the people you would optically like to have on your side? michael: it is and it does. it is a real bifurcated argument, if you will. talking just about the horrors that may or may not exist in any given community is one conversation. while ignoring those good things that are actually happening , where folks are taking their

own initiative, not necessarily relying on a program or some government outreach, or something like that. but there are genuine efforts, grassroots, native to the community, whether it's entrepreneurs or teachers or you know local community leaders also trying to deal with the systemic issues. i think what donald trump has to do is marry those two conversations. and really sort of give a full-throated and realistic view of what is happening in the community. if you are going to talk about my community, one, show up. two, understand what is going on, the good, the bad and the not so ugly and then share with me how you propose to get to the next level. john: bill i'm going to shift, to shift to the democratic side and ask you this question -- you were with the democratic campaign when president-elect obama was courting hillary clinton be secretary of state and you are

in the white house when the administrative started, and i think we are aware president obama really wanted to have a big wall between the clinton foundation and the secretary of state's office when he appointed hillary clinton. knowing what we now currently know, do you think she abided by the spirit or letter of what he wanted in terms of shielding herself from clinton foundation donors? build: absolutely. i think he absolutely did. if you look at this story and what we are talking about, it's a small sliver of clinton foundation donors and the meetings she had. we are talking about 185 meetings out of 17,000. we are talking about, you know, 85 donors out of 7000. for the clinton foundation, this is not pay to play, not a lot of people are paying to play. john: do you think president obama, if i asked him if he envisioned a state department where they would write on behalf of clinton foundation donors that barack obama would have said, yeah, that's fine with

the? really? bill: i don't think the president would be engaged with that. what he was up to but if you are talking about a nobel laureate coming to see the secretary of state, someone who has done more to lift people out of poverty in the developing world, i guess you would assume that person would meet with the secretary of state. alex: melinda gates is probably not the best example for the ap to use, but if you look at the exit and entry roles, do you think president obama would be happy if half the civilians he met with were obama campaign donors? bill: first of all, it is not half. it is a small tiny sliver of the people she met with and president obama, while president of the united states had meetings with people who gave money during the times he was president. we have leaders of industry or leaders in the nonprofit world, yes, they do come in and have meetings with people in government and meet about things they're working on.

so, the fact that secretary clinton was engaged in this should not be a surprise to anyone. and i think it should not be as hyped up as it has in by the media. john: michael steele, we just have 30 seconds. michael: i say all of that as well and good but that's not how the american people are reading it and is one of the reasons they have this high level of distrust about hillary clinton. because of stuff like this. alex: bill burton and michael steele, thank you for your time. coming up, we have a cardinal classic with you, our conversation with the ragin' cajun, coming up. ♪

♪ john: i will tell you what is going on.

right now, in bookstores across the country, you can find the image of donald trump's head emerging out of an elephant's bum. this is the cover of we are still right, they are still wrong. it written by hyper-partisan democratic strategist and clinton's super ally, james carville. he stopped by our studio last night to talk about the presidential race. and the thesis of his new book. james: we have had two successful democratic presidents, sandwiched by two disastrous republican presidents. so, do not count democratic. the longer case i am making, particularly on the economy by every measure that you can comment, democrats have typically just outperformed republicans. and, you know, it hasn't been close. we go on from there, to issues like climate and overreaction to ebola and environmental regulations. one of the favorite parts of my book is the united states and and north carolina senator mr. tillis said he did not think

russian workers should be forced to wash their hands. i don't know about you, i think it's reasonable for the guy who makes the salad to wash his hands. john: i am pro-handwashing. alex: i'm all for sanitary practices in the workplace. what's with the idea that trump is offering voters something new that they have nothing left to lose. james: you to understand it you can't win with 40%. john: we have said what has happened this year is that donald trump staged a hostile takeover of the republican party. he is not a republican. he has changed parties six or seven times and people around him are -- how did that happen? the democratic party is happy with this candidate and the republican party is in this array. how did it happen? james: a couple of things. the democratic party is more and amalgamation of different interest groups. some shared things but if you have cultivated -- it's a huge

fight over white working-class, non-college white, i don't know how many meetings, we have to get these people. it is the reagan democrats, the guy with a gun rack and the pickup truck and a hunting dog. and, one day, we just lost them. they were gone. bye. and they all became republican. so, they became a majority of the republican party or at least 50%. trump comes in and stimulates that demographic unbelievably. he does enormously well and then , the republican party is basically fractured. to the point were a lot of people think and i'm probably one of them that for the first time in history of polling, democrats have a chance to carry college whites, who are the key demographic, the reagan

democrats, soccer moms, the veterans, you name it am a key demographic here. alex: do you think in the next three or four election cycles, the democrat and a chance of getting the house? james: dave washington, my go-to guy says they need to win by seven points. seven points. they need to win the house popular vote by seven. that is formidable. i hope -- if we don't do it this time, we don't have a chance. we cannot realistically do it in 2018. that is a steep hill to climb. it is not impossible. i would be shocked if we lost the presidency. i would be surprised if we didn't win the senate, i'm not -- i think the house is difficult. i think democrats will have a good year. will it be good enough to compensate for the fact that

democrats overwhelm in the city and to some extent, gerrymander. when people ask what can i do to help the democratic party, my answer usually is move. [laughter] alright, we will have more with james carville and just a moment. if you are watching us in washington, d.c., you can listen to us on the radio, radio at 99.1 fm. we will be right back. ♪

♪ alex: you know you loved it. now, it's time to go to part two of our interview with the ragi''

cajun, james carville. john: my question about the democratic party is this -- it's obviously true the republican party at the national level, the republican party is successful. in some respects, most governorships, most statehouses and state legislatures , own the senate and house at least for the moment. the democratic party, the presidential level is little rocky. and i want to look forward to hillary clinton, but just look back to one moment. was there any time you thought she might lose to bernie sanders? james: i can't say that i wasn't nervous. but i never thought she would lose. and once i thought about this, in general, people would say have you seen this? and i would get nervous and come think to have this much of this and that much of that and i don't get nervous. john: we know we are going to have a bunch more e-mails come out in october and a lot of stories suggesting clinton foundation donors had a lot of access to her. how much of a threat is it given that it the biggest political

threat looming i can see right now. james: you know, if i were running the campaign and giving political advice, i would say shut it down. as a human being, it makes me a bad person because people are going to die. now, no one said if bob dole was head of the red cross, if george h.w. bush is raising money for the library when his son was president, that's fine. a lady sent me an e-mail and she was from the watchdog group and pointed out the points of light were started by george h w bush in 1991, while he was still in office. i think the foundation -- i will say this, and move on to something else. all the things bill clinton has done, he stopped the genocide. and the human genome project will make our children better. but the foundation have decided

they don't like it. john: i want to stay on that. no one thinks the clinton foundation doesn't do good work. no one argues that. what people have argued -- say it's for the clinton lifestyle. thinkby and large, people the clintons do good work. i am not challenging you on that. there are some people in the far right you say that but by and large, people and knowledge the clinton foundation does good work. people look back at the time she was secretary of state and with the donors had access to her. it is about access. james: give me an example. the crown prince of bahrain, who already got the meeting through normal channels, who is probably the most important ally to the u.s.. alex: there was a story in the donors,rday about 85

half of the donors -- james: what do they get? nothing. john: if it is not a problem -- james: i will tell you what. the press has decided they don't like it. it never bothered them when bob dole was the majority leader and elizabeth dole was the red cross. it didn't bother them. and it didn't bother me, when president bush started the points of light. they have to have their victory. they're going to have their victory. people are going to die. alex: what about the obama white house? james: what about them? alex: the obama white house put limitations on the clinton foundation. james: they can impose whatever limitations. i am very sick that as a human being, that i would say you need to shut it down to satisfy a bunch of ravenous press that cannot distinguish between what the hell is going on. i think i'm a sorry human

being. you know, i apologize to my children that i think we should shut this down and let people die to satisfy some people in manhattan and georgetown. john: so, you look at the trump campaign and the three big figures around donald trump now. from breitbart, sean hannity, and roger ailes. three big right-wing media poohbahs. what does that tell you about the campaign? what can that tell you about what its purposes? james: the conspiracy which i think makes some sense is that they are setting up to have a news network. and i think it will probably be pay-per-view. [laughter] there isort term, actually a thought on the right that if people actually get a

pure right-wing, nativist message that the people out there are ready to rise up in revolt against the elites, we they are to see if right in this election cycle. nose guys for there is moderating effect on this. john: you don't just see roger ailes as a savvy political operative. james: absolutely. james: i said he was one of the three best political operatives in my lifetime. jim bakker, roger ailes, david axelrod. john: are you not worried at all about the fact that someone put aside steve bannon and sean hannity at the moment, are you concerned about roger ailes and his involvement just as a matter of p are campaign mechanics. james: i don't know about. campaign mechanics, i think he is very formidable. alex: what about in the debates? james: i think she's going to do fine in the debates.

trump has never had a one-on-one debate. entirelyeople, that is different. she has debated president obama any number of times. she had one-on-one's with bernie sanders. she does fine in debates. i should not say this, but you should tamper expectations down but i expect, her to do great. john: she's going to clean his clock? there's a possibility of about james carville being the stand-in for donald trump during the debate. is there any truth to that? james: there's absolutely no truth and it would be stupid for me to do it and i will tell you why. in order to do this right, takes about 100 hours of prep. you have to sit there and listen to every answer donald trump gives, every come back, and basically the people that do this have to have a staff. there is no way james carville is going to sit down, look and listen at 100 hours of tape of

donald trump. it is not going to be. alex: so who should play trump? seriously? james: i'm partial to bob barnett. he is an old friend of mine. he played bush in 92, but i don't know. john: he is the most trump-like person. james: any number of people in politics now, it has to be somebody that sits and knows every answer to every question he's ever given and the only way you can do that is you have to go through all the takes, all the questions. it can't be done in any other way. but unbelievable preparation. alex: do you think the country ever come back together to the moment where we used to have landslide elections? james: i wrote a book in 2008 and i said 40 more years. it was very difficult to win the presidential election. what will happen in this election?

i can tell you exactly. the wall street journal editorial page will say this election didn't count. she really didn't win because she beat donald trump. we have to wait. she cannot support anybody to the supreme court. we need to wait have a real election in 2020. i can already tell you this is exactly what is going to happen. alex: our many thanks to james carville. again, his new book is, we are still right, they are so wrong. we will hear from crucial voters in florida, right after this. ♪

♪ donald trump's rally this afternoon was in tampa, florida. a city on the southern tip of

the famous i-4 corridor, a stretch of highway to run through the middle of the sunshine state. represented by a million and a half voters with no clear party affiliation. we asked our resident auteur to brave the heat on a road trip through the heart of the aforementioned sunshine state. ♪ >> i am driving the 132-mile stretch of highway from daytona beach to tampa. this interstate, the i-four, runs across central florida beginning in volusia county which voted for obama in 2008, then romney in 2012. the i-4 cord or is the ultimate battleground region and the ultimate battleground state. at exit 108, i came across a dog park, where i met matthew.

matthew: it is more awkward than it ever has been as a liberal to talk to a conservative about politics. i don't want to vote in a way that enables the political divide to keep growing wider and wider. >> so, he says he's considering a third-party vote. and as an undergrad studying psychology, he says presidential candidates tend to have alarming traits. matthew: yeah, as it happens, there is something called the dark triad. politicians tend to have overrepresented traits of machiavellianism and narcissism. one of the best case studies you can look at in terms of trying to apply what you've learned in a textbook and if instructive and awful and discouraging. >> probably one of the most important elections in our history. a time when america comes together, unites together, starts putting americans first.

the first time i ever ran for office, i'm a gulf war veteran and it's time for me to be engaged and serve my community. i want to serve my community now. the next president will choose three or possibly five justices. i tell people you may not like trump but i'm going to vote for trump because he has the stronger platform, in terms of constitutional platform. the president will define our country for the next 30-40 years. >> while i never saw any presidential billboards along i-4, tonya in orlando says she has been inundated with tv ads. >> there's a lot. a lot. so, you kind of start to tune it out. a lot of the same all stuff. hillary is a liar and so is trump. it came on the news and was hearing about donald trump and how he was apologizing. like i regret some of the stuff. he regrets? i'm not going to take one simple sorry, is what it take a couple of years for him to maybe gain

back my trust. >> that would be the first freedom i gave you is freedom of your opinion. right? she's in favor of hillary, but i'm in favor of trump. >> at home can we are always fighting. i will interrupt them. i will start yelling. and my mom will join my side or sometimes go on his side. >> i want a better choice of words, yes. >> i'm not leaning toward trump. i will tell you that. absolutely. it amazes me that he has made it this far. like i think everybody thinks it's a joke and it scary. it really is. >> you are sweet. >> i have been a special education teacher for 37 years and i have always kind of been for the underdog. >> i told carolyn it's been hard to get floridians to talk politics on camera. >> people are mum about it.

like they don't bring it up because they don't want the controversy. it's not a good thing. it needs to be a more open conversation about the events of our time and how we need to solve those problems. not i'm this or that and you cannot talk me out of it. ♪ >> this country is not a business and you cannot run it as a company. the mistake from his side is to take the whole word. >> but just as a rainstorm started, he told me he trusts i- 4 corridor voters will make the right decision in november. >> there are a lot of wise people here. they will make the right decision on what's going to affect us in the long run. john: up next, we go to debate prep school with a sarah palin impressionist, former governor of michigan jennifer granholm.

next. ♪

♪ > governor palin>, nuclear iran is one of our greatest threats. what would a mccain administration do to stop it? julianne: on the subject of nuclear iran, senator joe biden and i are in agreement that they cannot be allowed to acquire nuclear weapons. period. we will fight for it. and there's only one man in this race who has really ever fought for you. and that is senator john mccain. alex: that is julianne moore playing sarah palin. in the hbo movie game change. maybe you have heard of it.

as he prepares for a big debate. our next guest knows a thing or two about playing palin in debate prep. jennifer granholm is the former governor of michigan and advisor to the group correct the record, and was the stand-in for sarah palin during joe biden's prep for the 2008 presidential debate. great to see you. how did you end up playing sarah palin in that debate? governor granholm: it's a great question. you know, i got a call saying what i do it? i think they probably picked me because i was not a washington insider. i was a governor and she's a governor. i think i was the only governor who had small children at home, or young children at home. so there were a lot of similarities in terms of personal circumstances, so they called, i accepted, and i heard you talking to james carville earlier. yeah, it requires a huge amount of rep. the reason we,

are talking about this right now is there is a lot of speculation about who is going to play donald trump. the debate prep with hillary clinton, both challenges. both those people are ready famous and at least in one case, they have outsized personality. talk about the debate preparation. what did you do to transform yourself into sarah palin? governor granholm: if you're going to play the person, you have to internalize them. you have to believe, you have to really become that character and believe in the character, even though in sarah palin's case there were a lot of terrible stories leading up to that. i went in and watched every single debate she had ever done. i read all of her statements and read everything i possibly could. i knew what persona she brought to this match with john mccain so that i was able to once i got , there be able to try out both lines of attack on joe biden as

well as respond in a way i thought sarah palin would respond. alex: governor, one of the hurdles, it sounds like for anyone who's going to play trump is someone who is willing to assault verbally or rhetorically or however you want to describe it, secretary clinton. in a way that donald trump might on the debate safe. i mean, there's a lot of thinking that he is going to open up the cannon fodder when they take the debate stage and who is brave enough to do that to secretary clinton in debate prep? talk to us about playing palin and how much of a concern that was for you. governor granholm: the candidate you are assisting as a stand-in is mature and they understand they have to go through this. it's not a pleasant experience. they know that the opposition research the other side has is all potential game in a debate. and we can have a conversation

about whether it is good strategy for donald trump to do that. certainly, hillary clinton has to be prepared to stand in has to be willing to go there and if they don't go there, they are not doing their job. because they have to, you know, get her used to this line of attack. no matter what it is. so, they are going to come after her 12 different ways on issues that may seem wholly and there unfair, but a have to get comfortable with the answer, comfortable enough that she can respond and pivot to an attack on him or come out with azinger and answer in a way that makes her above the potential of the attack. but you have to practice it over and over again. it is not easy. john: i'm going to make you casting director right now. who would make a good trump? governor granholm: i'm of the theory that trump is so odd that as a candidate you might want to bring in a couple of different people. i like the idea of someone like mark cuban.

because he is an outsider, business guy. if you bring a nature additional politician, you may not be thinking like an out tighter business guy. you have to have someone willing to put aside their life for a couple of weeks to do that and i'm not sure he could do that. you know, i think they have an array of people who could don the mantle, don the whatever of donald trump, but i only say that because i had glasses. i didn't wear a wig but you have to embody the persona. but i kind of like the idea of putting a few people in there, assuming they are trusted people. you don't want them coming out of the prep blabbing away. john: you like the idea of rundell? governor granholm: i love the idea, he just has to sign a nondisclosure agreement. [laughter] alex: idea, he just has to sign a tha. was there one awkward moment you can share from debate prep? when you did it?

governor granholm: i'm not saying a word, but there were definitely awkward moments. because you want there to be awkward moments. right? you want to go to a place where your candidate is totally uncomfortable and if you are doing it right, the people running the debate prep are feeding you lines as the stand-in, that they know are going to come across to make the candidate very uncomfortable. but it is all for the greater good, because you want to inoculate them against what you know is coming. and i would just say on this issue, i'm just not sure. if i were on the other side looking at donald trump, you have to be careful about how harsh you are going to come across. i mean, you know, the goal coming out of the debate is to have people like you. alex: it sounds like a plum, but also unenviable job. jennifer granholm, former governor, thank you for your time. we will be right back. ♪

john: one quick correction before we go. earlier, i said the hillary clinton team is stressing she met with a lot of people. the correct number of meetings she held during her tenure was around 1700. not 17,000, as i foolishly said. head to bloomberg politics now to read all about why trump's big tax cuts are not swaying the nerds in silicon valley. coming up on "bloomberg west," the cofounder of red rock. alex, will you be back tomorrow? alex: i will. john: ok, i say sayonara. alex says -- alex: namaste. ♪

♪ rishaad: it is thursday the 25th of august. i am rishaad salamat. this is "trending business". ♪ rishaad: singapore, sydney, jakarta are the ports of call today. the rally may be over. investors rattled ahead of the jackson hole meeting. petro china seeing profit slump.