come after donald trump, but i agree with you. it's not going to make north carolina competitive. we have the lead for the paper. i just kind of go around and try to collect quotes and figure out tomorrow's story. john: good for us because you have time to come and talk about it. the debate will start in just a couple minutes. the families are in the hall. bill clinton watching his wife today in person for the first time in this presidential campaign circle. bob suggested both sides have played down whether their candidates are nervous. there is no doubt the stakes are huge. being seen on bloomberg television and for the first time, twitter.

also the debate in full. if you want to switch off your tv and mobile device as you walk around, you can go to our twitter handle and walked the whole debate. john kaluz you can still watch it on locks -- xbox. donald trump remarkably focused. they are tossing tough questions at him. obviously some spin there but they are saying his focus is very tight right now on what he has to do tonight. say he will still be lying trump. the key things to watch our what his demeanor is like and how toughoes he stand up to questions. and on the hillary clinton side, it remains again how hard does she go after trump and whether she is focusing on her own attempts.

john: a lot of people critical of the press for not being harder on trump on his factual issues. i mentioned earlier in the broadcast the new york times story from yesterday. liar" at trumpg " has not slowed him down but tonight, if he is cavalier with could be a huge problem for him with those remaining voters still making up their mind about what to do in this election. mark: there is no doubt about the next few days mattering a lot. in no doubt both these campaigns recognize as important as tonight is, there's a lot of campaigning left to do. >> in a lot of cases, we have seen debates take place where one side has a decided

advantage. this is a different thing. we are at a thai race. 46 to 46. here in the debate spin hempstead, new york waiting for this first presidential debate. it's fair to say for the variety of reasons that we have not seen the kind of anticipation and excitement that has surrounded this debate. a lot of discussion of numbers on television. we hope you will stay with us here and watch this thing on twitter as it unfolds and we will see you here when it's over. lester: i'm lester holt, anchor of nbc nightly news and i want to welcome you to the first presidential debate. the participants are donald

trump and hillary clinton. this debate sponsored by the commission on the presidential a nonpartisan nonprofit organization. the rules have been agreed to by the campaigns. the 90 minute debate is divided into six segments. we will explore three topic areas tonight, achieving prosperity, america's direction, and securing america. at the start of each segment, i will start the same leadoff question and each candidate will have two minutes to respond. at that point until the end of the segment, we will have an open discussion. the questions have not been shared with the commission or campaigns. the audience has agreed to remain silent so we can focus on what the candidates are saying. i will invite you to applaud at this moment as we welcome the candidates, democratic nominee for president of the united states, hillary clinton, and forblican nominee

president of the united states, donald trump. applause]d lester: i don't expect us to cover all the issues tonight but i remind everyone there are two more presidential debates scheduled. we will focus on many of the issues voters tell us our most important and we will press for specifics. i'm honored to have this role but this evening belongs to the candidate and the american people. todidates we look forward hearing you articulate your policies and positions and visions and values. so, let's begin. we are calling this opening segment achieving prosperity and

essential to that is jobs. there are two economic realities in america today, a record six straight years of job growth and new census numbers show incomes have increased at a record rate after years of stagnation. however, income inequality remain significant and nearly half of americans are living paycheck to paycheck. beginning with you, secretary, why are you a better choice than your opponent to create the kinds of jobs that will create more money in the pockets of american workers. lester.ton: thank you the central question in this election is really what kind of country we want to be and what kind of future we will build together. today is my granddaughters second birthday so i think about this a lot. first, we have to build an economy that works for everyone, not just those at the top. we need new, good jobs with rising incomes.

i want us to invest in you, in your future. that means jobs and infrastructure, advanced manufacturing, innovation and technology, clean, renewable energy and small business because most of the new jobs will, from small business. we also have to make the economy fare. that starts with raising the national minimum wage and also guaranteed final equal pay for women's work. i also want to see more companies do profit sharing. and i want us to support people who are struggling to balance family and work. i have heard so many from you about the stresses you are under so let's have paid family leave, earned sick days, let's be sure we have affordable childcare and debt-free college. we will do a by having the

wealthy pay their fair share and closing corporate loopholes. finally, we are on the stage tonight, donald trump and i. donald, it is good to be with you. we are going to have a debate where we are talking about the important issues facing our country. you have to judge us. who can show to the immense responsibilities of the presidency? who can put into action the plans that will make your life better? i hope that i will be able to earn your vote on november 8. lester: thank you. mr. trump, the same question to you. you have up to two minutes. mr. trump: our jobs are fleeing the country. they are going to mexico, many other countries. you look at what china is doing to our country in terms of making our product, devaluing their currency and there is no one in our government to fight them and we had a very good

fight and a winning fight because they are using our country as a piggy bank to rebuild china and many other countries are doing the same thing so we are losing our good jobs. when you look at what is happening in the coke, -- mexico , they are building some of the most sophisticated and best plants. with the united states, not so much. ford is leaving. you see that, their small car division leaving. thousands of jobs leaving michigan, ohio. we cannot allow it to happen anymore. i think hillary and i agree on childcare and we disagree a little bit to numbers and amounts and perhaps we will be talking about that later but we have to stop our jobs from being stolen from us. we have to stop our companies from leaving the united states

and with it, firing all of the people. all you have to take a look at carrier air condition. they fired 1400 people and they are going to mexico. hundreds of companies are doing this. under my plan, i will be reducing taxes tremendously from 35% to 15% for companies small and big. that will be a job creator like we haven't seen since ronald reagan. it will be a beautiful thing to watch. companies will come and build and expand. new companies will start and i look forward to doing it. we have to renegotiate our trade deals and stop these countries from stealing our companies and our jobs. lester: would elect a respond? ms. clinton: trade is an important issue. we are 5% of the world's

population. we have to trade with the other smart, faireed trade deals and a tax system that rewards work and not just financial transactions. the kind of plan that donald has put forth would be trickle-down economics all over again. it would be the most extreme version, the biggest tax cuts for the top percent of the people in this country than we have ever had. tumped up trickle down. that is not how we grow the economy. we have a different view on what is best for growing the economy, making investments that will produce jobs and rising income. we come at it from different perspectives, i understand that. donald was fortunate in his life and that's all to his benefit. he started his business with $40 million borrowed from his father and he really believes that the

more you help wealthy people, the better off we will be and everything will work out. i don't buy that. i have a different experience. my father was a small businessman, he worked very hard and went down with a silkscreen and dumped the pain in and kept going. wet i believe is the more can do for the middle class, the more we can invest in you, your education, your skills, your future, the better we will grow. that is the kind of economy i want us to see. lester: you spoke about creating 25 million jobs and promised to bring back millions of jobs for americans. how will we bring back the industries that have left this country for cheaper labor overseas? how will you tell american manufacturers that you have to come back? ms. clinton: for one thing, my father gave me a small loan in

1975 and i build it into a company worth billions of dollars and i say that only because that is the kind of thinking our country needs. we don't know what we are doing when it comes to the valuations and all of these countries, especially china, they are the best ever at it. what they are doing to us is a very sad thing. we have to do that. we have to renegotiate our trade deals and they are giving incentives, doing things that frankly we don't do. has a different system. when we sell into mexico, there is a tax. when they sell into us, there is no tax. it is a defective agreement. but the politicians haven't done anything about it. in all fairness to secretary is that ok?

good. i want you to be happy, it's important to me. in all fairness to secretary clinton, when she started talking about this, it was very recently, she has been doing this for 30 years and the nafta agreement is defective. lester: let me interrupt for a moment -- mr. trump: secretary clinton and others should have been doing this for years. not right now because of the fact we have created a movement. they should have been doing this for years. what has happened to our jobs and country and our economy we owe $20s trillion. lester: that to the question, how do specifically bring back jobs? don't let the jobs leave. the companies are leaving. there are thousands of them leaving in bigger numbers than ever. what you do is you say you want

to go to mexico or some other country, good luck but if you think you will make your air conditioners or cars or cookies and bring that into our country without attacks, you are wrong. and once you say you have to attack them coming in -- and our politicians never do this because they had special interests. what i'm saying is we can stop them from leaving. we have to stop them from leaving and that is a big factor. well, let's stop for a second and remember where we were a years ago. we have the worst financial crisis, the great recession, the worst since the 1930's. that was in large part because hedtax policies that slas taxes on the wealthy, failed to invest in the middle class, took their eyes off of wall street, and created a perfect storm.

donald was one of the people who rooted for the housing crisis. in 2006, i hope it does collapse because then i will make some money. mr. trump: that is called business, by the way. ms. clinton: 9 million people lost their jobs, 5 million people lost their homes, and $13 trillion in family wealth was wiped out. we have come back from that a bit. it has not been easy so we are now on the precipice of having a potentially much better economy, but the last thing we need to do is go back to the policies that failed us in the first place. independent experts have looked at what i have opposed and what donald has proposed and they have said this -- if his tax plan, which would lower up the debt by over $5 trillion and would in some instances this

advantage middle-class families gopared to the wealthy or to into effect, we would lose 3.5 million jobs and maybe have another recession. they have looked at my plan and said if we can do this -- and i intend to get it done -- we will have 10 million more new jobs because we will be making investments where we can grow the economy. take clean energy. some country is going to be the clean energy superpower of the 21st century. donald things climate change is a hoax perpetrated by the chinese. i think it's real. mr. trump: i do not say that. ms. clinton: i think it's important we gripped this and deal with it at home and abroad and here's what we can do. we can deploy half a billion more solar panels, have enough clean energy to power every home, build a new modern electric grid. that is a lot of jobs, a lot of new economic activity. i try to be very specific about

what we can and should do and i and determined that we will get the economy really moving again, building on the progress we have made over the last eight years but never going back to what got us in trouble in the first place. mr. trump: she talks about solar panels. we have invested in the solar company, our country, and that was a disaster. i am a great believer in all ares of energy, but we putting a lot of people out of work. our country is losing so much in terms of energy, in terms of paying off our debt. you cannot do what you are looking to do with $20 trillion in debt. the obama administration from the time they have come in is over 230 years worth of debt and he has hops it, double the it in the course of almost eight years. . will tell you this we have to do a much better job at keeping our jobs and we have

to do a much better job at giving companies incentive to build new companies but to expand because they are not doing it and all you have to do is look at michigan and ohio and all of these places where so , their jobs and companies are leaving. i ask you this. for 30e been doing this years. why are you just thinking about these solutions right now? for 30 years you have been doing it and now you're are just starting to think of solutions. i will bring back jobs. you can't bring back jobs. ms. clinton: i have thought about this quite a bit. mr. trump: yeah, for 30 years. ms. clinton: not quite that long. i think my husband did a pretty good job in the 1990's. mr. trump: he approved nafta. ms. clinton: a balanced budget. mr. trump: the single worst trade deal. ms. clinton: manufacturing jobs

went up in the 1990's if we are going to look at the facts. when i was in the senate, i have a number of trade deals that came before me and i held them all to the same tests -- will they create jobs, raise income in america, and are they good for our national security? , some ithem i voted for voted against. because i hold the same standards as i look at all these trade deals but let's not assume that trade is the only challenge we have in the economy. i think it is a part of it and i have said what i'm going to do. i'm going to have a special prosecutor and we will enforce the trade deals we have and hold people accountable. when i was secretary of state, we increased american exports globally 40%. we increased them to china 50%. i know how to really work to get new jobs and to get exports that

helped to create more new jobs. ms. clinton: you haven't done it in 30 years or 26 years. mr. trump: you haven't done it. been signed nafta, one of the worst things that ever happened to the manufacturing industry. ms. clinton: that is your opinion. mr. trump: you go to new england, ohio, pennsylvania, and you will see devastation where 40%.acturing is down nafta is the worst trade deal ever signed in this country. now you want to approve transpacific partnership. you were totally in favor of it and you heard that i said how bad it is and you said i cannot win that debate and you know if you did win, you would approve that and it would be as bad as nafta. ms. clinton: that is just not accurate. i was against it once it was finally negotiated and the terms were laid out. it themp: you called

gold standard. you called it the gold standard of trade deals, the finest deal you had ever seen. then you heard what i said about it and you were against it. ms. clinton: donald, i know you live in your own reality but that is not the facts. i said i hoped it would be a good deal but when it was negotiated, which i was not responsible for, i concluded it wasn't. mr. trump: was it president obama's fault? is it president obama's fault? he is pushing it. ms. clinton: there are different views about what is good for our country, our economy, our leadership in the world. i think it's important to look get thewe need to do to economy going again. that is why i said new jobs with rising income, investment not in more tax cuts that would add $5 trillion to the debt. mr. trump: you have no plan. ms. clinton: i wrote a book

about it, you can pick it up tomorrow at a bookstore or airport near you. it's because i see this. we need to have strong growth, fair growth. we also have to look at how we hope families balance. -- help families balance. have a very robust set of plans and people that have looked at both of our plans have concluded that mine would create 10 million jobs and yours would lose us 3.5 million jobs. mr. trump: you are going to approve one of the biggest tax increases in history. you are going to drive business out. your regulations are a disaster and you will increase regulations all over the place and my tax cut is the biggest since ronald reagan. it. very proud of it will create tremendous numbers of new jobs.

you will regulate these businesses out of existence. when i go around, despite the i am cutting regulation. you have regulations on top of old companiesd are going out of business and you want to increase regulations and make them worse. you going to cut taxes and are going to raise taxes big league and of story. lester: let me get you to pause. mr. trump: that cannot be left to stand. -- ms. clinton: that cannot be left to stand. i assume there would be these charges and claims. mr. trump: facts. ms. clinton: we have taken the homepage of my website and turned it into a fact checker. if you want to see in real time what the facts are, please go and take a look. mr. trump: take a look at mine

also. ms. clinton: we will not add a penny to the debt in your plans will add $5 trillion to the dead. what i have proposed would cut regulation and streamline them for small businesses. what i have proposed would be paid for i raising taxes on the wealthy because they have made all the gains in the economy and i think it's time that the wealthy and corporations pay their fair share. you just opened the next segment. it's a 15 minute segment. ms. clinton: she will -- website.: look at her it's no different than this. she's telling us how to fight isis. go to her website, she tells us how to fight isis on her website. i don't think the general would like that very much. ms. clinton: at least i had a plan to fight isis. mr. trump: you are telling the

enemy everything we want to do. have been fighting isis your entire adult life. lester: folks. mr. trump: goat -- go. lester: we are still on the issue of achieving prosperity. i want to talk about taxes. the fundamental difference between the two of you concerns the wealthy. secretary clinton, you are calling for a tax increase on the wealthiest americans. i would like you to defend that. i am really calling for major jobs because the wealthy will create tremendous jobs. they will expand their companies and do a tremendous job. it's notally look at, a great thing for the wealthy, it's a great thing for the middle class, a great thing for companies to expand and when these people put billions of

dollars into companies and when they bring two point $5 trillion back from overseas where they cannot bring the money back -- two point $5 trillion back from overseas where they cannot bring the money back because the bureaucratic red tape is so bad. what they are doing is leaving our country and believe it or not, leaving because taxes are too high and some of them have lots of money outside our country and instead of bringing it back and putting the money to work, they are leaving our country together money because they cannot bring them money back to our country because of bureaucratic red tape because they can't get together. we had a president that cannot sit them around a table and get them to approve something. republicans and democrats agree that this should be done. i happen to think it's double $2.5 trillion. it's probably $5 trillion we

cannot bring into our country. with a widow -- little leadership, it will be put to use and it will be beautiful but we have no leadership and that starts with secretary clinton. lester: you have two minutes in the same question to defend tax increases on the wealthiest americans. ms. clinton: i have a feeling by the end of this evening, i will be blamed for everything that has ever happened. mr. trump: why not? ms. clinton: why not, yeah. saying more crazy things. this is a secretary clinton's two minutes. looked atn: we have your tax proposals. i don't see changes in the corporate tax rates or the kinds of proposals you are referring to that would cause the repatriation.

i happen to support that. in a way that will actually work to our benefit. but when i look at what you have isposed, you have what called the trump loophole because it would advantage you and the business you do. you proposed an approach -- it is a tax benefit for your family. mr. trump: how much? ms. clinton: it is as i said, up trickled down. trickle down did not work. it got us into the mess we were in in 2008. a lot of really smart wealthy people know that and they are saying we need to do more to make the contributions we should be making to rebuild the middle class. i don't think top-down works in

america. i think building the middle class, investing in the middle class, making college debt-free, theirg people refinance debt from college at a lower rate, those are the kinds of things that will really boost the economy. broad-based, inclusive growth is what we need in america, not more advantages for people at the top. typical politician, all talk, no action. sounds good, doesn't work. never going to happen. our country is suffering because people like secretary clinton have made such a bad decisions in terms of our jobs and what is going on. we have the worst revival of the economy since the great depression and we are in a bubble right now and the only thing that looks good is the stock market but if you raise interest rates even a little, that will come crashing down.

we are in a big, fat, ugly bubble and we ought to be very careful. thet yellen of the fed -- fed is doing political by keeping the interest rates at this level and the day obama leaves and goes out to the golf course for the rest of his life to play golf, when they raise interest rates, you will see some very bad things happen because the fed is not doing their job. the fed is being more political than secretary clinton. lester: we're talking about the burden americans have. you have not released your tax returns. the reasons nominees have released their tax returns for decades is so the american people know if there any conflicts of interest. mr. trump: i don't mind releasing. i am under a routine audit. you will learn more about donald

trump by going down to the federal elections where i filed a 104 page essentially financial statement of sorts, the forms they have. it shows income. $694ncome is filed at million for this past year. you would have told me i would make that 20 years ago, i would have been very surprised but that is the kind of thinking our country needs. that ishave a country doing so badly, being ripped off by every country in the world, it is the kind of thinking our country needs because everybody -- lester, we had a trade deficit with all the countries we do business with of almost 800 billion dollars a year. that means who is negotiating these trade deals? we have people that are political hacks negotiating these trade deals. audit ofhe irs has an

your taxes then you are perfectly free to release your taxes during an audit. the question is the public has a right to know, does that outweigh -- mr. trump: i will release them. i have been under audit for a most 15 years. havew a lot of people that never been audited. i get audited almost every year. i'm not even complaining. it's almost a way of life. i will say this. we have a situation in this country that has to be taken care of. i will release my tax returns against my lawyer's wishes when she releases her 33,000 e-mails that have been deleted. as soon as she releases them, i will release my tax returns and that is against -- my lawyers as a don't do it. they are watching shows, reading

the papers. almost everyone says don't release your returns until the audit is complete. when the audit is complete, i will do it but i would go against them if she releases her e-mails. why did she delete 33,000? her answerill let but let me admonish the audience one more time. there was an agreement, we ask you to be quiet. ms. clinton: you see another example of bait and switch here. years, everyone who has run for president has released their tax returns. everyone has done it. we know the irs has made clear there is no prohibition on releasing it when you are under audit so you have got to ask yourself why won't he release his tax returns and i think there may be a couple reasons. first, maybe he's not as rich as he says he is. maybe he's not as charitable as he claims to be. there, we don't know all of his

business dealings that we have been told through investigative reporting that he owes about $650 million to wall street and foreign banks. or maybe he doesn't want the american people, all of you watching tonight, to know that he has paid nothing and federal taxes because the only years anybody has ever seen were a couple when he had to turn them over to state authorities when he was trying to get a casino license and they showed he didn't pay any federal income tax. mr. trump: that makes me smart. means 04on: that troops, for vets, schools, health. i think probably he is not all that enthusiastic about having the rest of our country see what the real reasons are because it must be something really important, even terrible, that he is trying to hide. , theynancial disclosures

don't give you all the details tax returns would and it just seems to me that this is something the american people deserve to see and i would have no reason to believe he is ever going to release his tax returns because there's something he is hiding and we will keep guessing at what it might be that he is hiding but i think the question is where he ever to get near the white house, what would be those conflicts? who does he own money to? he owes you the answer to that. lester: he also raised the issue of your e-mails. do you want to respond? ms. clinton: i do. i made a mistake using a private e-mail and if i had to do it over again, i would obviously do it differently but i will not make any excuses. it was a mistake and i take responsibility for that. lester: mr. trump. mr. trump: that was more than a

mistake. that was done purposely. when you have your staff taking the fifth amendment so they are not prosecuted, when you have demand that set up the illegal server taking the fifth, i think it's disgraceful. this country thinks it's disgraceful. as far as my tax returns, you don't learn that much from tax returns. you learn a lot from financial disclosure and you should take a look at that. i am extremely under leveraged. the report that said 650 -- a lot of friends of mine say that is not a lot of money relative to what i had. the billings that were in were $3.9there billion and the 650 isn't even on that but it's not 650, it's

much less. i can give you a list of banks if that would help you. these are fine institutions. i could do that quickly. i am very under leveraged. i have a great company and are tremendous income. because it's about time this country had somebody running it that has an idea about money. in debt andtrillion our country is a mess. it's one thing to have $20 trillion in debt and our roads and bridges are good. ar airports are like from third world country. you land at laguardia, kennedy, , youou come in from dubai come in from china and see these incredible airports. we have become a third world country. the worst of all things have happened. owe $20 trillion and we

are a mess. we spent the $6 trillion and the middle east according to a report i just saw. we could have rebuilt our country twice and it's really a shame and its politicians like secretary clinton that have caused this problem. debter nation and we need new roads, tunnels, bridges, airports, schools, hospitals, and we don't have the money because it has been squandered on so many of your ideas. ms. clinton: and maybe because you haven't paid any federal income tax for a lot of years. mr. trump: it would be squandered also, believe me. ms. clinton: if your main claim to be president is your business, i think we should talk about that. thatcampaign manager said

you build a lot of businesses on the backs of little guys and indeed i have met a lot of the people who are stiffed by you and your businesses. i have met dishwashers, painters, architects, glass , drapery installers, who you refused to pay when they finished the work you asked them to do. we have an architect in the audience who designed one of your clubhouse is at one of your golf courses. it's a beautiful facility. it immediately was put to use what theouldn't pay man needed to be paid, what he was charging you. mr. trump: maybe he didn't do a good job. peoplenton: thousands of that you have stiffed over the course of your business, do they not deserve some kind of apology from someone who has taken their

labor, taken the goods they produced, and refused to pay them? i can only say i am relieved my late father never did business with you. you provided a good middle-class life for us but the people he worked for, he expected the bargain to be kept on both sides. when we talk about your business, you have taken business bankruptcy six times. there are a lot of great neverss people that have taken bankruptcy once. you call your self the king of debt, talk about leverage, even at one time suggested you would try to negotiate down the national debt of the united states. sometimes, there is not a direct transfer of skills from business to government, but sometimes what happened in business would be really bad for government. look, it's all words,

it's all sound bytes. i built an unbelievable company, some of the greatest assets anywhere in the world beyond the united states. it's an unbelievable company. but on occasion, four times, we used certain laws that are there and when secretary clinton talks about people that didn't get paid, first of all, they did get paid a lot, but taking advantage of the laws of the nation. the laws,t to change change the laws, but i take advantage of the laws of the nation because i'm running a company. my obligation is to do well for myself and my employees and companies and that is what i do. people areusands of unbelievably happy and love me. i will give you an example.

we just opened up on pennsylvania avenue right next to the white house. so if i don't get there one way, i will get to pennsylvania avenue another. but we're opening the old post budget, and ahead of schedule, saved tremendous money. i am a year ahead of schedule. that is what this country should be doing. we build rows that cost three times what they are supposed to, we buy products for our military that come at cost so far above what they are supposed to be because we don't have people that know what they are doing. -- we have people that have no idea as to what to .o and how to buy trump international is way under budget and ahead of schedule and we should be able to do that for our country. lester: i want to move to our next segment. we move into our next segment talking about america's direction and let's start by talking about race.

some americans say race relations are bad in this thetry, amplified by shootings of african-americans by police. as we have seen recently in charlotte and tulsa. issue inbeen a big this campaign. how do you heal the divide? ms. clinton: you are right. race remains a significant challenge in our country. unfortunately, raisa still determines to much. it often determines where people -- race still determines too much. it determines how they are treated in the criminal justice system. we have just seen those two tragic examples in tulsa and charlotte. and we have to do several things at the same time. trust betweentore

communities and the police. we have to work to make sure using theolice are best training, techniques, that they are well prepared to use force only when necessary. everyone should be respected by everyone should respect the law. that's not the case and a lot of our neighborhoods. i have since the first day of my campaign called for criminal justice reform. i have laid out a platform i think would begin to remedy some of the problems we have in the criminal justice system, but we have to recognize in addition to the challenges we face with policing, there are so many great police officers who equally want reform. we have to bring communities together in order to begin working on that as a mutual goal. guns out ofto get

the hands of people who should not have them. the gun epidemic is the leading cause of death of young african-american men, more than the next nine causes put together. we have to do two things, restore trust, work with please, make sure they respect the communities, and we have to tackle the plague of gun violence, a big contributor to a lot of the problems we see today. lester: mr. trump, how do you heal the divide? mr. trump: first of all, secretary clinton doesn't want to use a couple words and that is law and order. we need law and order. if we don't have it, we don't have a country. when i look at what's going on in charlotte, a city i love, when i look at what is going on ,n various parts of our country we need law and order in our country. i just got today the endorsement

of the fraternal order of police that just came in. we have endorsements from almost every police group, a large percentage of them in the united states. we had a situation where our inner cities, african-americans, hispanics, are living in hell because it's so dangerous. you walk down the street, you get shot. in chicago, they have had thousands of shootings, thousands since january 1. thousands of shootings. i am saying where is this, is this a war-torn countrntry? we have to bring back life and order in a place like chicago where thousands of people have been killed. almost 4000 have been killed since barack obama became president.

almost 4000 people in chicago have been killed. law andto bring back order. whether or not in a place like chicago, you do stop in frisky, which worked well in new york and brought the crime rate way down. you take the guns away from criminals who shouldn't be having it. we had gangs roaming the street and often, they are legally -- illegally here and we have to be strong and vigilant. we have to know what we are doing. right now, our police in many cases are afraid to do anything. we have to protect our inner cities because african-american communities are being decimated by crime. lester: your two minutes has expired but i do want to follow. stop in frisky has ruled unconstitutional in new york because it largely ruled out

blacks and hispanics. mr. trump: you are wrong. it went before a judge, who was very against police. it was taken away from her and our mayor, our new mayor refused to go to through with the case. lester: the argument is that it's a form of racial profiling. mr. trump: the argument is we have to take the guns away from these people and are bad people that shouldn't have been. these are felons, people that are bad people. when you have 3000 shootings in chicago from january 1, 4000 people killed in chicago by guns from the beginning of the , hisdency of barack obama hometown, you have to have stop and frisk. you need more police, a better community relation. you don't have good community relations in chicago. it's terrible.

is not the only one. you go to ferguson, so many different places. you need better relationships. i agree with secretary clinton on this. you need better relationships between community and police but you look at dallas where the relationships were really study steady and five police officers were killed one night very violently. there are some bad things going on. lester: secretary clinton. mr. trump: we need law and order and we need law and order in the inner cities because the people that are most affected by what's happening are african-american and hispanic people and it's very unfair to them what our politicians are allowing to happen. ms. clinton: well, i have heard donald say this at his rallies unfortunateally

that he paints such a dire negative picture of a black communities in our country. the vibrancy of the black church , the black businesses that employ so many people, the opportunities that so many families are working to provide for their kids, there is a lot that we should be proud of and we should be supporting and lifting up. but we do always have to make sure we keep people safe. there are the right ways of doing it and then there are ways that are ineffective. stop and frisk was found to be unconstitutional. in part because it was ineffective. it did not do what it needed to do. i believe in community policing and in fact, violent crime is one half of what it was in 1991. property crime is down 40%. we don't want to see it creep back up. veryve had 25 years of

good cooperation, but there were unintendedms, some consequences. too many young african-american and latino men ended up in jail for nonviolent offenses and it's just a fact if you are a young african-american man and you do the same thing as a young white man, you are more likely to be arrested, charged, convicted, and incarcerated. to address the systemic racism in our criminal justice system. we cannot just say law and order. we have to say, we have to come forward with a plan that is going to divert people from the criminal justice system, deal with mandatory minimum sentences, which had put too many people away for too long for doing too little. we need to have more second chance programs. i'm glad we are ending private prisons in the federal system.

thent to see it amended in state system. you shouldn't have a profit motivation to fill prison cells with young americans. there are positive ways we can work on this and i believe strongly that common sense gun safety measures would assist us. this is something donald has supported along with the gun lobby -- right now, we have too many military style weapons on the streets. we need comprehensive background gunss and we need to keep out of the hands of those who will do harm and we finally need to pass a prohibition on anyone who is on the terrorist watch list from being able to buy a gun in our country. if you are too dangerous to fly, you are too dangerous to buy a gun. there are things we should do and we should do it in a bipartisan way. lester: last week, you said we have to do everything possible

improve policing. do you believe police are implicitly biased against black people? ms. clinton: i think implicit fores are a problem everyone, not just police. too many people in our great country jump to conclusions about each other and i think we need all of us to be asking hard questions about why am i feeling this way. when it comes to policing since it can have literally fatal consequences, i have said in my first budget we would put money into that budget to help us deal with implicit bias by retraining a lot of our police officers. i met with a group of distinguished experience police chief's a few weeks ago. they admit it's an issue and they have a lot of concern. mental health is a big concern because police are having to handle a lot of difficult mental

health problems on the street. .hey want support i think the federal government could be in a position where we could offer and provide that. mr. trump: first of all, i agree and a lot of people want to give certain rights to people on watch lists and no-fly list. i agree with you. when a person is on a watch list -- and i have the endorsement of the nra and these are good people -- i think we have to work strongly at no-fly lists and watch lists. i tend to agree with that quite strongly. i do want to bring up the fact you were the one you brought up the word super predator about young black youth and that is a term i think has been horribly met. it was a terrible thing

to say. when it comes to stop and frisk, you are talking about taking guns away. i'm talking about taking guns away from gangs and people who use them and i don't think you disagree with me on this. maybe there's a political reason why you can't say it but in new york city, stop and frisk, we had 2200 murders and stop and frisk brought it down to 500 murders. lot of murders. hard to believe 500 is supposed to be good but we went from 2200 to 500 and it was continued on by mayor bloomberg and was terminated by our current mayor but stop and frisk had a tremendous effect on the safety of new york city, tremendous beyond belief. it had a very big impact. ms. clinton: it's also fair to say if we are going to talk about bears that under the current -- mayors, under the current mayor, crime has

continued to drop, including murder. mr. trump: you are wrong. ms. clinton: new york has done a job. i have given credit going back to police chief's because it has worked and other communities need to come together to do what will work as well. one murder is too many, but it is important that we learn about what has been effective and not go to things that sound good but really did not have the kind of impact we would want. who disagrees with keeping neighborhoods safe? one shouldadd, no disagree about respecting the rights of young men who live in those neighborhoods. we need to do a better job of working again with the community as well as the police to try to deal with this problem. conversation is

about race. mr. trump, i have to ask you. mr. trump: i would like to respond. communityn-american has been let down by our politicians. they talk road around election time like now and after, they say see you later. community, american the community within the inner cities has been so badly treated , they have been abused and used to get votes by democrat politicians because that is what it is. lester: mr. trump. mr. trump: it's broken. i will tell you. you look at the inner cities. i left detroit and philadelphia. i have been all over the place. you decided to stay home and that's ok. i have been all over and i have met some of the greatest people i have ever met and they are

very upset with what their politicians have told them and what their politicians have done. ms. clinton: i think donald just criticized me for preparing for this debate and yes, i did. and you know what else i prepared for? i prepared to be president and i think that's a good thing. [applause] lester: mr. trump, for five years you perpetuated the false claim that the first black president was not a natural born citizen. couple weeks, you acknowledge what most americans have accepted for years that the president was born in the united states. tell you whatill is simple to say. sidney blumenthal works for the campaign and is a close friend of secretary clinton. manager, patty doyle, during her campaign against president obama, you can

look it up and check it out and if you look at cnn this past week, patty doyle was on wolf blitzer saying this happened. blumenthal sent a highly respected reporter to kenya to find out about it. they were pressing it very hard. she failed to get a birth certificate. when i got involved, i didn't fail. i got him to give the birth certificate so i'm satisfied with it. defeatingget onto isis, creating jobs, to having a strong border. i want to get onto things that are important to me and are very important to the country. theer: i just want to get answer here. the birth certificate was produced in 2011 and you continued to question the president's legitimacy and two

thousand 12, 2013, 2014, 2015, as recently as january. mr. trump: no one was pressing it. i figured you would ask the question but no one was caring much about it. i was the one who got him to produce the birth certificate and i think i did a good job. secretary clinton also fought it. true.ody says that's not it's true. sidney blumenthal said the reporter. you have to take a look at cnn last week, the interview. she was involved. just like she cannot bring back jobs, she cannot produce -- lester: i will let you respond because there's a lot there but we are talking about racial healing. what do you say to americans of color -- mr. trump: i say nothing because he should have produced it a long time before.

i think i developed a good relationships over the last little while with the african-american community. that they really wanted me to come to their conclusion and i think i did a great job and a gray server is only for the country but for the president and getting them to produce his birth certificate. lester: secretary clinton. ms. clinton: just listen to what you heard. [laughter] ms. clinton: clearly as donald just admitted, he knew he would stand on this stage and lester holt would be asking us questions so he tried to put the whole racist birther lie to bed. but it cannot be dismissed that easily. he has really started his political activity based on this our first black president was not an american citizen.

there was absolutely no evidence for it but he persisted year after year because some of his supporters, people he was trying to bring into his fold apparently believed it or wanted to believe it. donald started his career in 1973 being sued by the justice department for racial discrimination because he would not rent apartments in one of his developments to african-americans and made sure the people who work for him understood that was the policy. he actually was sued twice by the justice department. engaginglong record of in racist behavior and the birther lie was a very hurtful one. barack obama is a man of great dignity and i could tell how

much it bothered him and annoyed him that this was being touted and used against him. remember whato michelle obama said in her amazing's reach at our democratic national convention. when they go low, we go high and high mr.ama went some of got to watch your debate with barack obama. you treated him with terrible disrespect and i watch the way you talk now about how lovely everything is. it doesn't work that way. you were after him. your campaign sent out pictures of him in a certain garb. managery, your campaign said this was true. act you tried to add --

holier than now, it doesn't work. when i was very young, i went to my father's company. companiesith many settled the suit with no admission of guilt. it was very easy to do. i notice you bring that up a lot . frankly, i look at that and i say isn't that amazing because i settled that lawsuit with no admission of guilt. that was a lawsuit brought against many firms and it's one of those things. i will go one step further. florida, ach, wealthy community, i opened a really get a great

credit for it. no discrimination against african-americans, against muslims, against anybody. it's a tremendously successful club and i'm so glad i did it and i have been given great credit for what i did and i am very proud of it. that is the way i feel. that is the true way i feel. segment is aext securing america. we want to talk with a 21st-century war happening. our institutions under cyber attack. my question is who is behind it and how do we fight it? secretary clinton. i think cyber security will be one of the biggest challenges facing the next president because clearly, we are facing at this point to a different kind of adversaries. there are the independent hacking groups that do it mostly

for commercial reasons to try and steal information that they then can use to make money but increasingly, we are seeing cyber attacks coming from states , the most recent and troubling of these is russia. there is no doubt now that russia has used cyber attacks against all kinds of organizations in our country and i am deeply concerned about this. let mayor putin is playing a tough -- vladimir putin is playing a test, long game here. he is allowing cyber attackers to hack into government files, personal files. we have recently learned that this is one of their preferred methods of trying to wreak havoc and collect information. very clearmake it

whether it is russia or china or anyone else, we will not sit idly by and permit state actors to go after our information, our private sector information. it clear we to make don't want to use the kinds of tools we have. we don't want to engage in a different kind of warfare but we will defend the citizens of this country and the russians need to understand that. they have been treating it as probing. how far will we go, how much will we do. that is why i was so shocked when donald publicly invited putin to hack into americans. that is one of the reasons why 50 national security officials who served in republican

administration have said donald is unfit to be the commander in chief. it's comments like that that really worry people who understand the threats we face. lester: mr. trump, two minutes. mr. trump: i do want to say i was just endorsed by over 200 .dmirals and generals that just happened and many more are coming. -- i am veryd proud of it. ice. just endorsed by when secretary clinton talks will take the admirals and the general's any day over the political hacks i see that have led our country so brilliantly. look at the mess we are in.

as far as the ciber, i agree with parts of what secretary clinton said. we should be better than anyone else and perhaps we are not. i don't think anybody knows it was russia that broke into the dnc. it could be russia but it could also be china. it could also be someone sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds. what did we learn with dnc? we learned bernie sanders was taken advantage of by your people, by debbie wasserman schultz. bernie sanders was taken advantage of. whether that was russia, whether that was china, another country, we don't know because under president obama, we have lost control of things we used to have control of. internet, with the came up with the internet, and

secretary clinton and myself would agree when you look at what isis is doing with the internet. they are beating us at our own game. we have to get very tough on ciber and cyber warfare. it's a huge problem. i have a son that is 10 years old. he is so good with his computers it's unbelievable. the security asked that does cyber is very tough and it is hardly doable. i will say we are not doing the job we should be doing. that is true throughout our governmental society. certainly ciber is one of the things we have to do better. there are a number of issues we should be addressing. i have put forth a plan to defeat isis. does involve going after them online. i think we need to do much more with our tech companies to prevent isis and their operatives from being able to

use internet and direct people in our country and elsewhere. we also have to intensify our airstrikes against isis and eventually support our arab and kurdish partners to be able to rocca.y take out isis in our military is assisting in iraq and we are hoping that within the year, we will be able iraq andsis out of squeeze them in syria. but we have to because ms. and of the fact they have had foreign fighters -- we have to be cognizant of the fact they have a foreign fighters and we have to make this the top priority and i would do everything possible to take out their leadership. i was involved in a number of

efforts to take out al qaeda leadership when i was secretary of state, including taking out bin laden. i think we need to take out the i as well. we have to do everything to disrupt the isis propaganda after its online. lester: we think of isis as over there but there are american citizens that have been inspired to commit attacks of terror. the latest, the bombings in new york and new jersey and a knife attack in new jersey and the deadly attacks in san bernardino and orlando. tell us how you would prevent homegrown attacks by american citizens? say onep: i have to thing, very important. secretary clinton is talking about taking out isis. and secretarya clinton created a vacuum the way they got out of iraq.

they got out once they shouldn't have been in. isis was formed. she talks about taking them out. she has been trying to take them out for a long time but they wouldn't have even been formed if they left some troops behind like 10,000 or something more and you wouldn't have had that. as i have been saying for a long --e, had we taken the oil and we should have taken the oil -- isis would not have been able the oil wasuse their primary source of income and now they have the oil all over the place, including libya, another one of her disasters. ms. clinton: i hope the fact checkers are turning up the volume and really working hard. donald supported the invasion of iraq. mr. trump: ron. ms. clinton: that has been proved over and over again.

he advocated for the actions we took in libya and urged gadhafi be taken out after doing some business with him. the larger point, he says this constantly, is george w bush made the agreement about when american troops would leave iraq , not barack obama. the only way american troops could have stayed in is to get an agreement from the then iraqi government that would have protected our troops and the iraqi government would not give that. let's talk about the question you asked. the question you ask what we do in the united states is the most important part. how do we protect our people? i think we have got to have an arelligent search where we looking for every scrap of information. i was no doubt of law enforcement in new york,

minnesota, new jersey. they responded so quickly. we may find that more information because he is still anve, which may prove to be intelligence benefit. we have to do everything we can to vacuum of intelligence from europe, the middle east. we have to work more closely and that isies something donald has been very dismissive of. toare working with nato really turn our attention to terrorism. we are working with our friends in the middle east, many of which are muslim majority nations. donald has consistently insulted muslims abroad and at home wh we need to be caught operating with muslim nations and the american muslim community for and are on the front lines

can provide information to us we might not get anywhere else. we need close working coopation with law enforcement in the communities, not be alienated and pushed away as some of donald's rhetoric has led to. said wep: the secretary have been working with them for many years. we have the greatest mess anyone has seen. under your direction to a larger extent. deal where the iran you have a country that was ready to fall they were doing so badly and now they will be probably a major power at some point pretty soon. , was asked on a major show what do you think of nato? i am a business person but i have common sense.

lots of thought to nato. the 28 countries of nato, many aren't paying their fair share. that bothers me because we are defending them. they should at least be paying what they are supposed to be paying by treaty and contract. obsolete -- i be was very strong on this. i said they do not focus on terror. i was very strong and said it monthss times and four ago i read on the wall street journal that nato is opening up a major terror division and i think that is great and i think we should get -- because we pay 73% of the cost of nato. . am all for nato

but i said they have to focus on terror also. i will not get credit for it but that is largely because of what i was saying. i think we have to get nato to go into the middle east with us in addition to surrounding nations and we have to knock the hell are devices and we have to do it fast. thisice is formed in vacuum created by barack obama and secretary clinton -- and believe me, you were the ones who took out the troops. they sat back and -- wait a minute. when they formed, this is something that never should have happened. are talking about taking out isis. you were there and you were secretary of state when it was an infant and now it is in over 30 countries and you are going to stop them? i don't think so. lester: a lot of these are judgment questions. you supported the war in iraq

before the invasion. mr. trump: i did not support the war in iraq. that is a mainstream media nonsense put out by her because i think the best person in her campaign is mainstream media. lester: my question is why is your judgment -- mr. trump: i was against the war in iraq. lester: the records show otherwise. mr. trump: the record shows i am right. when i did an interview with howard stern, very lightly, i said i don't know, maybe, who knows, essentially. and wedid an interview talked about the economy and i spoke to sean hannity and had numerous conversations with sean hannity at fox and he called me the other day and i spoke to him about it. he said you were totally against the war because he was for the war.

sean hannity said very strongly to me and other people -- he is willing to say it but nobody wants to call him. he's to have fights with me because sean was in favor of the war. hannity and sean then they did an article in a major magazine shortly after the war started i think in 2004 but they did an article that had me totally against the war in iraq. you read this article, there is no doubt. up seanody would call hannity, this was before the war started. he and i used to have arguments about the war. i said it's a terrible and stupid thing and it will destabilize the middle east. lester: i reference was what you said in 2002 and my question is why is your judgment any

different? mr. trump: i have much better judgment than she does, no question. and a much better temperament. [laughter] she spent hundreds of millions of dollars on advertising. asset, maystrongest be by far, is my temperament. i have a winning temperament. she does not know how to win. the other day behind the blue screen, i don't know who you were talking to, but you were totally out of control. i said there is a person with a temperament that has a problem. lester: secretary clinton. woo. ok. [laughter] let's talk about two important issues that were briefly mentioned by donald. first, nato.

a military alliance has a something called article five and basically it says an attack on one is an attack on all. the only time it's ever been invoked, after 9/11 when the 28 nations of nato said they would go to afghanistan with us to fight terrorism, something they still are doing by our side. n, when i wasto ira secretary of state, they were weeks away from having enough nuclear material to form a bomb. they had mastered the nuclear fuel cycle under the bush administration, built covert facilities, stocked them with centrifuges. we had sanctioned them. i voted for every sanction against iran in the senate but it wasn't enough so i spent a year and a half putting together a coalition that included russia

and china to impose the toughest sanctions on iran and we did drive them to the negotiating my successor, john kerry, and president obama got a deal that put a lid on iran's nuclear program without firing a single shot. that is diplomacy, that is working with other nations. the other day, i saw donald saying there were some iranian sailors on a ship in the waters off of iran taunting american sailors on a nearby ship. he said if they taunted our sailors, i would blow them out of the water and start another war. that is not the right temperament to be commander-in-chief, to beat on to it. -- to be taunted. weapons.about nuclear

he said repeatedly he didn't got nuclearations weapons. it has been the policy of the united states, democrats and everything weo do could to reduce the proliferation of nuclear weapons. he even said there were a nuclear war in east asia, that's fine, have a good time. his cavalier attitude about nuclear weapons is a so deeply troubling. that is the number one threat we face in the world and it becomes particularly threatening if terrorists ever get their hands on any new year material. a man who can be provoked by eight weed should not have his fingers anywhere near the nuclear codes as far as i think anyone with any sense about this should be concerned. mr. trump: that's getting a little old. ms. clinton: it's a good one,

though. i agree with her on one thing. the single greatest problem the world has is nuclear armament, nuclear weapons, not global warming like you think or your president thanks. nuclear is the single greatest threat. list, we defend japan, germany, south korea, saudi arabia. they do not pay us but they should be paying us because we are providing tremendous service and losing a fortune. that is why we are losing. we lose on everything. i say it is very possible that if they don't pay a fair share -- this isn't 40 years ago where we can do what we are doing. we cannot defend japan selling as cars by the million. lester: we need to move on.

mr. trump: they may have to defend themselves or help us out. they have to help us out. as far as nuclear is concerned, i agree. it is the single greatest threat this country has. lester: as we go to our last , on nuclear weapons, president obama reportedly consider changing the nation's long-standing policy on first use. do you support the current policy? mr. trump. was secretary clinton was saying about nuclear aggression, she is very cavalier in the way she talks about various countries but russia has been expanding. there has been a much newer capability than we have. there.eeing b-52s we are not keeping up with other

countries. i would like everybody to end it, get rid of it, but i would certainly not do first strike. once the nuclear alternative happens, it's over. at the same time, we have to be prepared. we look at some of these countries, north korea, we are doing nothing there. china should solve that problem for us. china should go into north korea. china is totally powerful as it relates to north korea. powerful, iran is one of their biggest trading powers. they have power over north korea. when they made the horrible deal, they should have included the fact they do something with respect to north korea. they should have done something with respect to yemen and all these places. when asked to secretary kerry, why didn't you do that, one of

the great giveaways of all time, including $400 million in cash, no one has ever seen that before, it turned out to be wrong. it was $1.7 billion in cash. obviously i guess for the hostages. you say to your self why didn't they make the right deal? this is one of the worst deals ever made by any country in history. the deal with iran will lead to nuclear problems. i met with netanyahu the other day and he is not a happy camper. lester: secretary clinton. ms. clinton: let me start by saying words matter when you run for president and they really matter when you are president and i want to reassure our allies in japan and south korea and elsewhere that we have

mutual defense treaties and we will honor them. it it is essential that america's w ord be good. i know this campaign has caused worries on the part of many leaders across the globe -- i have talked with a number of them. and i behalf of myself, think on behalf of a majority of the american people, i would like to say that our word is good. it is also important that we look at the entire global situation. there is no doubt that we have other problems with iran. personally i would deal with the problems, having put that lid, then still to be facing that. donald never tells you what he would do. we have started a war? would he