announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is open out charlie rose." charlie: tonight, hillary clinton and donald trump faced off in the first debate of 2016 trader an estimated 100 million viewers were expected to watch the 90 minute viewers -- broadcast, moderated by lester holt of nbc news. polls a the contest is essentially tied. here is a look at some key moments. mr. trump: i am going to cut taxes and you are going to raise taxes big league, and of story. ms. clinton: i have a feeling that by the end of this evening,

i'm going to be blamed for everything cured mr. trump: why not? the kind of planned that donald has put forth would be trickle-down economics all over again. it would be the most extreme version, the biggest tax cuts for the top percent of this country, then we have ever had. i call it trumped up trickle-down. mr. trump: you have been doing this for 30 years. where you just thinking about these solutions right now? ms. clinton: i think my husband did a pretty good job secured i think a lot about what he did that work and how we can do it again. mr. trump: he approved nafta, the worst -- ms. clinton: broad-based, inclusive growth is what we need in america, not more advantages for people at the very top cured -- top. mr. trump: i will release my tax returns against my lawyer's wishes when she releases her 33,000 e-mails that have been deleted. joining me now are mark

halperin and john heilemann, editors of bloomberg and cohost of all the respect. and from santa barbara, california, clinical columnist jeff greenfield. and frank luntz. and here with me in new york, maureen dowd of the new york times. she is also the author of a new book, the year of voting dangerously. i am pleased to have all of them here. i began with mark halperin and john heilemann at hofstra. they are not here yet, so i will begin with maureen dowd. give me your reaction. maureen: i would say hillary won, but not in such a decisive way, not in such a decisive way that my conservative siblings,

which i call my basket of deplorables -- think he won cured so i am not sure she got any of his people, and i'm sure he didn't get any of hers. she was able to beat him, not a total jack nicholson, a few good men meltdown, but on women, the birther thing, iraq. he ended up kind of admitting and bragging about not paying taxes, and he ended up kind of admitting about the housing bubble was good for him and defending that. and he reiterated that rosie o'donnell is a fat slob, i think. he admitted that he stiffed people in his business, and he was sort of bragging about weird things. i think he lost an opportunity on iraq, because he did not go after hillary on voting for the

war and also helping dick cheney make the link between al qaeda and saddam, which wasn't true. instead, he got tangled up in defending himself on how he talked to sean hannity about iraq, and he did resist it before he said he did, which he didn't. more -- orturn on it rather, sooner, then some say, so i will give him that cured. think?untz, what did you these were truly undecided voters between the candidates. 16 of them thought that hillary clinton had won the debate, had brought them closer to her candidacy. only five of them picked donald trump and the remaining 6% were tied. there were four key component secured when donald trump was attacking the system, he was doing well. when he was defending himself,

he was a disaster. hillary clinton was so well prepared for this. i had written down the word him withinbating three minutes of the opening cured she did it again and again mr. trump: reacted poorly. also, you do not speak over the moderator ever. viewers were undecided felt he was rude to lester holt. also, trump describe the problems effectively but did not have the solutions cured she was not quite as effective at stating the problems but she had better answers. solutions be problems. -- solutions beat problems. let's go to jeff greenfield in california. jeff: not to the lincoln-douglas ones, are pretty much everyone after that. if i had not seen the last 15 months of this campaign, i would have seen it as a clear and

decisive victory for secretary clinton. atmospherics -- she controlled the room in the sense that she seemed tolm one, she be enjoying herself, she could laugh off trump's attacks. he was so baited and so eager to impulsively jump in that she was able to use the same line from her acceptance speech -- if you can bait a man with a tweet, that is not somebody you want with the nuclear codes secured at -- codes. the reason i'm hesitant is because we have seen donald trump haven ways that under would haveumstances severely damaged if not destroy his campaign. the question for me is -- with all those interruptions, and they looked pretty of noxious -- are the people who like donald trump because he goes in the face of those people, the media, the elitists, the government, will they take that as rudeness or boldness? i think on points, she is the clear winner.

but the question is, so what? we may be in an alternative universe? . charlie:'s best argument in this election is change -- i can change washington. did he make that case? jeff: not as well as i think he did in the past. lines --e a couple of you have been there 30 years, what have you done? you are an expert, but you have made the wrong decisions. one of the more affecting moments was he said, who suffers the most of it? it is minorities, because on that answer clinton was kind of conventionally anodyne liberal. the idea of him as the guy who can take the system and take it apart, i thought was less effective than he has been in other moments. for his supporters, we have seen this over and over again. i will be very blunt. they hear a donald trump that many others of us don't hear.

i agree with-- maureen -- i do not think he turned off any of his supporters. charlie: did he added any new constituents is part of the question, especially suburban women? jeff: know. --no. if the laws of clinical gravity have not been currently suspended, i do not know how many women have dealt with a man who would not let them finish a sentence. that is probably not a way into the hearts of suburban, college-educated women. i also think his bragging at how clever he is about not paying contractors and avoiding taxes -- if there is anything that possibly could erode some of his support among white, working-class men, it might be those answers, but i'm dubious. charlie: she personalized it by talking about her father, as well. jeff: that was new for me. i'm glad my father never had to deal with you, i thought that was one of the more original hits of the whole night. mike allen, what did you think?

mike: i think we can agree that the biggest lie of all is that donald trump did not practice. he plainly day. saw a tonight, and we fascinating congruence in the two strategies. we saw both trump and clinton talking to their own people, forgetting the people in the middle, the undecided reader -- undecideds. i think frank has found the only undecided voters. we saw donald trump talking to a old white guy in michigan, and hillary clinton talking to twitter. and they both won. twitter love the secretary clinton tonight, by far. a lot of what donald trump said he'd up the taunts on twitter. audience donald trump needs, that he has and wants to keep and wants to turn the new snapchat channel, donald trump played the race and

fear cards. it was deliberate, and for his constituency, it was effective. charlie: when you look at the idea of adding new constituents and appearing presidential, the trump meet that standard? maureen: i didn't think so. i thought hillary was very effective, and she had interesting things said where she knows that he is very sensitive when people say that got $1ys says, i just million for my father and basically, after that i was a self-made man who became a billionaire. she knows he is very sensitive when he is painted as the spoiled little rich boy who got a lot more millions from his father. she made that case. and then she presented her own ,ather, who was a drapery maker as the kind of person that donald trump is stiffed. so she used her father effectively and got under his

skin with his father. charlie: what about the income tax issue? maureen: what do you mean? charlie: defending the fact that he was not willing to make his income tax records available. dealn the meantime, make a with her about the e-mails to remind people. maureen: i didn't think you did as well on the e-mails as he could have, just like he did not do as well on the iraq issue. did she put him on the defensive with all those bait ing questions? charlie: -- maureen: he seemed like he had a cold. except the people in l.a., who suspected he was on coke. he is not a substance abuse person. i think he wasn't feeling well, and he was sniffling and drinking water.

he was succumbing, in his thin-skinned way, to some of her baiting. he sort of admitted that he didn't pay taxes and said the government would squander it anyway. >> charlie, you are dead on about the income tax. that was the worst moment, and he came back to it. when he was given a chance to challenge hillary on the e-mails, he didn't, and our focus group started to boo him. , thathey verbally react shows you there is something going on there. fightinged that he was too much to defend himself and not enough to defend him. dear member of the republic -- do you remember at the republican convention, when he turned around hillary slogan and said, i am with you? he lost that tonight, and that was a big loss for him. charlie: -- maureen: he has no

ability to take a punch. charlie: that is what he prides himself on, being a counterpunch or. maureen: it all devolved to his ego. charlie: what about the end, in which he attacked her and her health and she ended by saying, when you have traveled as many miles as i have and you have negotiated as hard as i have, then maybe you can speak to this issue? of thoset was one moments when i think ambiguity drops away. door, and she -- i am mixing metaphors here -- she just connected solidly. it started when he was asked by lester holt, what did he mean that she didn't have the look of a president? which i think everybody in the country understands there is a gender issue there. i thought she just waited and waited and offered that list and delivered it very well. this is the one place where i think, even though i'm skeptical

because of what has happened the last year and change, if there was any movement caused by this debate, it would be among women who don't particularly like hillary, have doubts about trump -- on a lot of these answers, he showed himself to be the donald trump that the hillary campaign wanted these women to see. jeff's point up on about that last question, i think we have become numb over the last year and a half. we have to pause for a second and talk about how astounding it is that in this debate, we have donald trump saying that her grandson didn't have the look, -- saying that hillary clinton didn't have the look, didn't one nomineemina, calling the other racist, astonishing. and we just have grown immune to it, but we have never heard anything like that. the point about donald trump

, the lead story on politico right now says that donald trump keeps his cool, hillary clinton composed. bbc, katie isthe at hofstra. what are the moments for you that made a lasting impact on the way this debate is perceived and his campaign progresses? >> hillary clinton had the stronger debate tonight, but there were no knockout blows against donald trump. he proved that he can have the stamina or the focus for 90 minutes your -- 90 minutes. minutes, because the last five minutes are pretty much a disaster. were women watching that, who did not understand the dog whistle politics of lester holt questioning that she did not

have the look of a president, and he handled that very badly. there was also clinical malpractice. she got away incredibly lightly with the e-mail server issue. i'm sure her campaign is thinking right now, why on earth did she not handle it like this for beginning of the campaign? frank apology, a few sentences, and there was no follow-up. he did not go after again when the question came up about cyber security. i think donald trump missed opportunities to raise the character issues. was there a moment at which he seemed to have lost his game plan and succumbed to, what was clearly her intent, to draw him into those areas where he loses it because of his self protection? >> i think when he was trying to defend his business practices, he just would not stop. i think we have seen this over and over again, the one place

where he is extremely sensitive is the notion that he is not the world's greatest businessman. i think the litany, when she went on on the section of what is it that your taxes might tell us, that was a whole series of direct assaults on either his honesty or his capacity to be a businessman, and i think that unnerved him a little bit. i write for politico, but i don't think donald trump kept his cool through the whole 90 minutes. >> politico said he lost his cool, hillary was composed. >> jeff, i heard the same thing you did. what you are saying, mike, is that politico is leading with the idea that he lost his cool? mike: yes. i apologize if i misspoke. i was watching the debate at a hillary clinton watch party in arlington, and when she repeated

her apology for the e-mail server, her supporters broke into applause -- for an apology. it just shows that that is what they had been waiting for. i talked to republican sources tonight. republicans are just relieved. this wasn't necessarily the presidential bomb we saw behind the podium in mexico, but as one republican said to me, for trump, a solid draw is a win. he took the bait, he was trumpy, but not as trumpy as they feared. ♪

mark halperin, u.n. john heilemann is there. tell me about your reaction and the spin going on after the date. >> i talked to trump after the debate when, in an unprecedented move, he came to this been room to make his case. there are people who read his body language and say he looked shaken. he said people were telling him he won the debate, but i don't think there's any doubt he is more on the defensive. from her andait several occasions, i thought he talked to fast. his best moments were when he talked about changing washington, as she had been at it for so long in the country still had problems. that was the point he emphasized to me in the spin room. so i expect he failed to emphasize that is something he was supposed to talk about more consistently than he did your -- did.

john: if you measure the total time of the debate, she was on offense for the vast majority of it, he was on defense. which iusiness record, had thought the very beginning would be a point that she could exploit because he is always very defensive about that and bait -- ons to the his taxes, on the birtherism question, on the ways when she talked about women at the end of the debate, where he was defensive. i thought she came prepared, she came to play, i thought she attacked when she needed to, and she explained when she needed to, and i thought his lack of preparation showed. i do not think most of those attacks that she launched against him were attacks that he could have easily prepared for, and the quality of his answers works ordinarily poor -- incoherent, too long, too

defensive, and not at all persuasive to the voters who are still trying to make up their mind. charlie: conventional wisdom coming into this was that donald a smalls surging -- and way, but surging -- the race was even, but he had a bit of momentum. does this debate stop that? i am not foolish enough to predict how regular voters will react. the case the republicans are making is that clinton spoke in washington speak and trump spoke in a plane, strong way. the silver lining for trump -- we do not know if it will him back voters. elites and some republicans will judge this as either a solid win from her or more. the second, trump now has a debate under his belt and perhaps he will come next time not just more psychically prepared that perhaps actually , convinced that in order to better, he would need to practice.

and finally, i think they will be able to show him this debate, if you watch it, and i think you will see. the most basic thing you need to do in a debate is that it -- if you get asked the tough question, address it briefly and have it to the offense. he did not do that on many things, including on the iraq war, when he said people should go to sean hannity. the thing about this debate that is striking is, despite the questions being substantive, the answers were not. did notretary clinton really give people a sense of what her policies are to make the country better. she will come and more confident next time, i think from a gladiator point of view. i think there's going to be a soul-searching here from both candidates to try to answer in a less personal, more substantive way. charlie: another thing she wanted to do was to appear trusting. her issue had to do with trust and likability. she was more composed here. did she make some small gains

their in terms of looking likable, appearing likable? ,aureen: yeah, she was laughing and she had that sort of bemused, maternal glare a little -- that she used between which works when she is trying to paint him as a child, although that is an insult the children. -- i think when his most successful argument was that she is a status quo person, and that still resonates with the people who want to use donald trump as a baseball bat against washington. i don't understand his stamina argument against her, because when i interviewed him, he was trying that out before he got to crooked hillary, but i have never understood it, because i think the two of them have more stamina than anyone i have ever seen. charlie: one is 69, when his 70 -- one is 70.

jeff: here is the one thing i think she did not do, and that at some point in the next two debates you might need to do. maybe it is not possible at this stage in her career. somewhere along the line, she needs to say to the people who are least likely to vote for her that -- i understand that you have been let down. thathere is a way to do that says, i know i'm not going to win your vote this time, because there is too much water under the bridge or over the dam, but i do want you to understand that we have made progress in this country. but you have been left out. and if i win, the first thing i'm going to do is go to the places that have not voted for me and sit down and talk and bring in the republicans and figure out, do any of us have an idea for how to fix what has gone on in this part of america?

i didn't hear any of that tonight, maybe that is asking too much. it some grace notes like that think would be both wise substantive late and wise bluegray, -- and wise lately -- and wise politically. mark: were you talking to me? charlie: you were looking at your device, i know what you are doing. you,n't say i didn't hear i said i didn't catch what you said. john: i will pick up the question. i think jeff is right about that. some of these states where -- hillary clinton, back in 2008 when she ran against barack obama, one of the bulwarks that she had against him was that she had a connection to white, working-class voters. millennials, he

had professionals, nonwhite voters, presumably african-american voters. she had support from hispanic voters and working-class whites. right now donald trump is dominating -- much of his success and what makes them competitive is the hold that he has with working-class whites, especially in some of the states that you just mentioned. she is probably not going to win that vote, but she needs to be more competitive than she currently is. i think the kinds of arguments that would appeal to those voters in those dates would also be really useful -- and in those states would also be usable with african-american, hispanic, and millennial voters, who right now are not as enthused about her candidacy as they need to be if she is going to recapitulate the obama coalition to the extent that she needs due to win. charlie: the question that everybody talks about is turnout and enthusiasm. is this likely in any way to generate more enthusiasm for her, because they saw her there and she was in command of her own game plan?

guy, who has blown people way, and he did not do that tonight. is that develop enthusiasm, is the question? >> i think it allows her to dominate the news for elisa banos half, maybe longer. her surrogates -- dominate the news for at least a week and a half, maybe longer. her surrogate are out there right now. in terms of messaging, she didn't talk very much about college affordability and jobs for the future, about the environment, so i think there's still work to be done there. but this gives her a chance to reach a broader audience. a international bloomberg poll out today, and lots of other polls. if you are democrat worried about demographics and the electoral college, that is still the biggest thing to worry about. not the percentage necessarily

that she is going to get in these groups, but will they turn out in sufficient numbers to offset the strength that trump has with white voters and men? we have her ahead with millennial voters, in this poll only up by 10 points over donald trump at about 40%. claimed almost 60% of millennial voters in 2012. she is down. , just as aoints shy matter of a share of the vote let alone run numbers. she has a challenge there for sure. we throw a lot of emphasis on this first debate, and rightly so, but given the way it turned out, i think this is going to be a triptych. we will see three important debates here. hillary clinton dropped a lot of the opposition research she had very effectively tonight, but it is going to be hard for her -- but put it this way. she got point of view, this bit of business done tonight, and maybe she looks at

the second and third debate as a way to build a more positive case herself. that may run up against the fact that donald trump may be a better debater than he was in this first debate. mark: it is going to be fascinating to see if his advisers express an understanding that he didn't have a great debate, and probably more important, privately. do they make him watch the tape of the debate, do they speak to them in a way that says, you need to do better, because that is what would typically happen with the typical candidate and typical campaign staff. donald trump is not a typical candidate. in his own mind, he is the best at everything. charlie: what is going to change tomorrow and the next day on the campaign trail? the clinton campaign will come out feeling this was a good night for them, that she didn't come across as too cold and frosty and that she didn't have any major clingers -- clangers. i think the bigger issue is that

going into the next debate, i'm not sure she came out of this really giving us clear, compelling views of why you should vote for her. and it is the conundrum of hillary clinton. she has spent a lot of her life working for middle-class american families, and she addressed to that right at the top of the debate when she talked about income inequality in the country. she went back to it when she talked about african-americans and legal inequality in the country. it somehow doesn't come across as very compelling. it is not enough to say why donald trump is inadequate. say, this is is to my story, this is why you should vote for me, in a nutshell. is got to be better than stronger together. she didn't make that case very forcibly tonight. >> good luck to those trump advisors who are going to try to convince him he did not have a

great debate. they neede right that to, but they try to during the republican debates. during the republican debates, they tried to show donald trump film from the debates of moments where he could do better, but instead, he just kept saying, see, look how good i am at this? he was saying, look at how great i am. he was saying that these moments they thought were trouble or his moments of triumph. so they're going to have fun convincing him he could have done better. charlie: mark and john both, because you have to in the work that you do follow what is happening on twitter -- tell me what is happening on twitter? mark or john, can you hear me? john: yeah, i can hear you. can hear us? charlie: i can. it is fair to say

that trump is taking a fair amount of heat on twitter. the views of have been expressed on this program are pretty an opinion of what has to say on this debate. most of the twitter that we follow tend to be a lead opinion, which is to say, people in the business of politics. avid't see a lot of defenses of trump's performances, even among republicans. there is little bit of that. there seems to be a kind of consensus that is formed around the notion that trump had a bad debate but not a disastrous one. hillary had a good debate, but not as spectacular one, and there is more fight to be had here. charlie: well summarized. twitter is so constant and instantaneous that if you look at some of the tweets that the trump campaign put out from his better moments, there is no doubt that trump's best moments were good enough to win a debate. the problem is, they were few

and far between compared to the moments he was on defense. twitter reflects that. thes also the case that clinton campaign, as i suspected, is much better organized in terms of having people out there. major, give me a sense of the trump campaign, which you are following. how do they see where they have to go from here? >> they have to build on this debate performance. what they look at on the positive side tonight is that donald trump was confident, and to their mind, capable of dealing with most of these issues with the broad strokes and the confidence and the simplicity and the large, sort of 30,000 point message that they believe has galvanized the supporters they see at their rallies and is likely to continue to galvanize the country. they don't see this debate as a downer moment for trump, they see it as a way of legitimizing his candidacy in only the way a presidential debate stage can,

and they also believe that when hillary penton dives deep into policy, their supporters and a lot of undecided voters turn off. when trump talks about big ideas and big goals and his own success as a businessman, they are on the better side of that argument. they know it will never win a policy contest with her grandson, it's -- a policy contest with hillary clinton, so trump didn't even try. he basically didn't prepare, because all he did was use the most popular riffs from the campaign stump speech he has been giving. charlie: major, thank you so much for coming. thank you to all my other guests. ♪

charlie: we close our program tonight remembering the great golfer arnold palmer. he died sunday evening in pittsburgh. he was 87 years old. in 2011, i visited him at his home in latrobe, pennsylvania. it was a wonderful visit for me, someone who admired him, and to see him up close and personal. here are excerpts from that conversation. rnold: this was done a number of years ago. when i first saw it, you said, do i recognize this guy? arnold: i wasn't sure everybody would recognize what was in the picture.

is -- the number of times i have been on sports illustrated -- we played in the world cup couple of times together and we won both times we played. you and jack? , here is of the year -- billy casper. that is when we talk about every once in a while. it is the toughest one to win, or the masters? arnold: of course, i haven't hung out at the masters. charlie: it's your favorite, the grand slam. arnold: it had to be. but you can't ignore the open it is still -- charlie: it is all american. the american championship.

turned 40.n you this was 40 years ago. see how much you've changed. [laughter] arnold: i think so. -- that isis is you 1967, there you are. let's look at that schwinn. gary, thend jack and u.s. open. you and jack again. golf kings must be selfish. do you think you have to be selfish? arnold: well, i don't think so. i don't think he is and i don't think i am. those are my buddies, the blue angels. charlie: tell me about flying for you. arnold: though, i love it. i started by being scared.

i was an amateur. i played a couple of tournaments and i had to fly, and we got into weather and stuff and it scared me. i decided that will not work, i had to learn to fly. i had to find out what airplanes and aeronautical engineering and what it was all about. charlie: you stop flying now. arnold: just. and i still have my license, and the only thing that keeps me from flying is going to recurrent training, which i haven't done. charlie: your license lapses if you don't go back. but did you fly all those famous jets you had, the citation 10 and the other jets? arnold: i will show them to you before we finish this tour. charlie: so this is your office. pictures of family. there is your dad. is given name was taken -- his

given name was deacon? arnold: milford jerome. now you know why he is called deacon. he was a great guy, a strong dude. not a real big guy, but very strong. charlie: by the time you began to be who you were and are, he fully appreciated it? it was great, he was great. this is my first tournament win, the canadian open. charlie: that was in one year? arnold: 1955. charlie: three years away from when you started really killing it. arnold: i am now, as you know, approaching 82, and i have never shot four rounds in an official tournament lower than that. 65 for four rounds.

wow. pretty good. if you were today, playing was back with the same age and the skills that 1962 when you to want your most memorable major tournaments, if you are playing today -- would you be number one? [laughter] arnold: i can't answer that. charlie: but you had the will to win? you would like to give it a shot, wouldn't you? arnold: you are damn right. i would like to give it a go. wake forest, i have spoken twice a commencement there.

there is a picture of the school in winston-salem. pebble beach, which i'm a partner in. there is the whole i drove at cherry hills. charlie: when you actually reached that green, you are so enthused by the fact of what had been said to you -- arnold: the determination and the things we talked about, they were -- charlie: foremost in your mind. everybody believed that if you wanted to be, you could have been governor of pennsylvania. did you think about it? arnold: i had no choice. me.le pushed for that was something that -- i wasn't a politician. charlie: but you are also an american, a citizen.

but you just did not want to do it. arnold: i didn't want to spend -- i wanted to playoff. charlie: you don't have to be in politics to make a contribution to the country. these are all commencements i spoke at various universities around the country. this is one i just got last summer but i'm very pleased about. it is saint andrews. my degree from st. andrews. come on, i will show you some more. charlie: tell me what i'm going to see here, because this is legendary. where you come here and hide. arnold: that is it, i love it. i come in here to work on golf clubs. a lot of people say i destroy more than i build. charlie: are you convinced that what you do in here to a club fits in better tears wing? -- fits it better to your swing?

arnold: i always said that if i had the perfect club, i would play the perfect game. that is what i tried to achieve here. i put them together, take them apart -- most people say i'm very good at taking them apart. [laughter] charlie: what kind of club do you play with today? arnold: callaway. charlie: of course you do. let me talk to you a moment about president eisenhower. your 37th birthday, he shows up at the front door of your house. he has come with his wife to patriot to you on your birthday. this was the president you had the deepest relationship with. arnold: yes. i played golf with him the day after i won the masters in 1958, at his request. we became everlasting friends. i was with him a day before he

died at walter reed. their closing walter reed. we just became very close friends. we played golf together, we played exhibitions. we did all that kind of stuff. and then the doctors told him that he really should not play so he would spend his winters in palm springs and he would call me and say, arnie, what are you doing? i would say, i'm going to play golf i think. he says, if you get time, stop at the house and we will have a beer. i wouldn't play golf, i would sit with him and we would talk -- about golf and business and military and the whole thing, the country. charlie:'s passion for golf also help to make it popular. arnold: you can say that in

spades. charlie: then there was jfk, who also sought you out. he wanted you to look at his swing. because he was a guy who loved winners. arnold: he was a good golfer. swing,: when you saw his to said -- he is supposed have played better and had a more fluid swing than any of the other presidents. you said you could have worked with him. why didn't it happen? arnold: i was on my way to palm beach to play. 1963?e: this was arnold: yes, it was. we were going to play some golf and the white house called me and said, arnie, forget it. i said, why?

i want to go do it. they said, he hurt his back and he is going to take some time off. i don't think he is going to play golf for a while. that was the end of it. dr. arnold palmer, esquire, makes them and breaks them, no house calls. [laughter] arnold: we are going to go right here, back to the right. charlie: you have always had a very good relationship with the press. arnold: i enjoy the press. i understand their business. doc has helped me with that. the guys in the press were guys that i could get with. i could talk to them. charlie: part of what made arnie's army so famous was there was a sense that you are this brawny guy, this guy who played to win.

but there was a sense that you were of them. buddies. arnie was there buddy. arnold: we would have a beer together. charlie: these are some big-time metals. -- medals. the highest award that the united states can give to a civilian. arnold: this is the one from portugal, the highest civilian award. i built the golf course there, and the president and i became friends. belt.elt is the hickok that for then professional athlete of the year. charlie: you also won it for the professional athlete of the decade. sir.ld: yes or. -- looks likeis

president bush giving you the presidential medal of freedom. that is a great honor. arnold: yes it is. that is the national amateur. charlie: so that his 1954? that is pretty high up? arnold: that is major. charlie, this is my presidential corner. the things that happened with my various presidents that i was associated with an spend some time with. charlie: over there is richard nixon. did he play golf? arnold: he did. charlie: gerald ford, a good athlete. arnold: and he was a great guy. you can tell by the laugh. this is a conference the next calledled -- that nixon a ball of his friends to talk about how to negotiate the war. kissinger, the

whole crowd. charlie: to negotiate the end of the vietnam war? this is george bush. reagan.ronald arnold: these are white house dinners. charlie: here again, the bushes. who is the lady in white? arnold: she happens to be the queen. arnold: ryder cup, open champion. it is a great international competition. so.ope i have always been a big thinker that the more international competition we can create for sports, the better relationships we will have with countries. charlie: the more common ground we can find, the better off we are going to be when push comes

to shove. arnold: that's right. that's the name of the game. charlie: here you are with bill clinton. clinton here, clinton here. he loves golf. arnold: he is a great guy, whatever your politics are. charlie: how is his golf? the ball just didn't have a zip code on it. charlie: where he was driving the ball, it wasn't necessarily the same zip code. [laughter] he and i were playing golf one day, 1965 -- dde, dwights is david eisenhower, august 14, 1965. dear arnie, enclosed is payment for my debt, and never was there one more reluctantly paid. also is a clip from the philadelphia inquirer. please write a couple of

absences will not be important to year from now. love to win and keep hitting them, all the best as ever, dde. and there is $10. that was what? he bet me i would win the pga championship, and i do not. -- did not. ♪

john: i'm john heilemann. mark: and i'm mark halperin. "with all due respect" to those who wondered if donald trump is tech savvy. we came up with the internet. cyber warfare. cyber warfare. sitting on a bed that weighs 400 pounds. cyber and cyber warfare. he is so good with his computers. it is unbelievable. cyber warfare. i agree. ♪ mark: we are all about zeros and