john: i'm john heilemann. mark: and i'm mark halperin. "with all due respect" to those who wondered if donald trump is tech savvy. we came up with the internet. cyber warfare. cyber warfare. sitting on a bed that weighs 400 pounds. cyber and cyber warfare. he is so good with his computers. it is unbelievable. cyber warfare. i agree. ♪ mark: we are all about zeros and

ones on this episode of "with all due respect." less than 24 hours after donald trump and hillary clinton facing off on the debate stage. and both candidates are back out on the trail already. after many declared clinton the winner from last on, the democratic nominee ticket victory lap in raleigh, north carolina. ms. clinton: did anybody see that debate last night? [cheering] mrs. clinton: oh, yes. one down, two to go. [applause] ms. clinton: and when i confronted him with the reasons why he would not release his tax returns, i got to the point where i said, maybe he's paying zero. he says maybe that makes him smart. [boos] ms. clinton: if not paying taxes makes him smart, what does that make the rest of us? mark: donald trump also claiming victory. that was the main thrust of his

talking points when he came into the spin room last night. he spoke with reporters. donald trump and his team are trying to mitigate some of the fallout, or as some people call it, making excuses. mr. trump: i had some hostile questions. he didn't ask her about the e-mails at all, about her scandals. he didn't ask her about the benghazi deal. he didn't ask her about a lot of things she should have been asked about. there is a question about it. when you look at it, you watch the last four questions, she hit -- he hit me on birther, a housing deal from in years ago i settled with no recourse. they were leaving all of her little goodies out. those questions were not answerable in a positive light. i had a problem with a microphone that did not work. my microphone was terrible. i wonder if it was set up that way on purpose. my microphone in the room -- they couldn't hear me.

it was going on and off. which isn't exactly great. i wonder if it was set up that way. it was terrible. it was on an often it was much lower than hers. i don't want to believe in conspiracy theories of course. it was much lower than hers. it was crackling. john: oh no, donald trump would never want to believe in a conspiracy theory. here is what clinton had to say about that, all of that. >> what about his stamina? mrs. clinton: anybody who complains about the microphone is not having a good night. john: ok. another trick donald trump likes to use when he feels he is not being treated fairly by the media, he likes to talk about the polls. mr. trump: we have won almost every single poll. every poll except for cnn. nobody watches cnn. we won almost every single poll, cbs, slade, time magazine, all

of them, right? we won all of them. he won all of them, especially the cbs poll which does not exist and the others were online surveys. the most credible was the cnn-orc survey, which found that 62% of voters said that clinton had a better night. mark, not a good day for donald trump, not a good night last night. do you believe at this point it would do him good politically to admit that he lost? mark: i am stipulating that there is a difference between what is and what ought to be. this morning i thought he should say, it was my first time debating, i did not like the quay to questions when but i will do better next time, but now i do not think so. his supporters rush limbaugh , said that he won. as brazen and as counterfactual as people experienced the debate, i think you should tough

it through, pretend it does not happen and hope it does not affect the national polls. john: i don't like giving donald trump advice on what to do. we will talk about it more. he plainly lost the debate. there are examples in the past with bush in 2004 and obama in 2012, where the campaign basically did not come out and say, "we lost congo but that they did not have a good night and they would do better next time. that helps with better credibility with the media. credibility with the mainstream media is not how donald trump advances himself politically. the big difference to me between this and 2012 when barack obama failed in denver in the first debate, he confronted mass panic amongst his supporters and he had to admit he lost in the do better next time because democrats are freaking out. trump fans are not freaking out. they saw a different debate. they think he won. mark: some elite republicans are not happy.

what saved him, and the reason i do not think he has to say he lost is there is no soundbite moments. there are a lot of moments that will continue to haunt him. but there is no rick perry "oops." there is no gerald ford pulling under soviet domination. as much as there is built up to the debate, i just don't think he has to turn the page to say "i lost, let's move on." he can just muscle through trump style and set, i wanted your all the reasons i want, and hope the polls do not suggest that he lost. john: i think they might though. what can hillary clinton due to capitalize on the strong debate performance? john: she is doing it. she has been doing it all day today. you are right there was not a big moment where donald trump said a glaring thing, but it is what she is doing. she is highlighting those moments to keep the narrative going.

i think particularly on his questions by going through a series of hypotheticals, asking the question, having him not deny the questions and suggestions she was making has opened the door for that issue. we saw him last night take the bait on a lot of issues and make miss factual statements. she and her team are amplifying those mistakes to the media to keep this thing alive for several more days on that basis. mark: at least on social and targeted media. my second favorite haley barbour expression, politics gets better, bad gets worse. she had a great day today. she was with reporters on the plane and talked about being optimistic and joking with them and was as relaxed as she was with them while. and then she did the rally. again, she is enjoying the win. not gloating about it, but surfing the success she has last night. it has put her in a good mood. while republicans are not panicking, democrats are super happy. she knows that. here's the thing you can

tell about candidates, and will talk about the campaigns in the second and how they have tried to frame this thing. when a candidate feels they have one and have been josh to have one, they have the look of confidence and buoyancy. trump would not be talking about the moderator or the microphone if he had won the debate. it is a window into his psyche. he is passively admitting, although he will never admit it, he is passively admitting he lost the debate because he is blaming things and giving excuses. mark: confidence matters so much. today, he is still confident because he is always confident that she has a lot of confidence. john: more than she has had in weeks. we got a little dizzy from all of the spinning that occurred in the hofstra university spin room last night. running mates to flood the airwaves with talking points. let's take a sample of what team trump has been saying last

-- about last night. >> donald trump took command of the stage. i think the american people saw his leadership quality. >> i was glad he was polite and a gentleman to her. particularly at the end. he pulled the biggest punch of all. >> his restraint at the end was absolutely remarkable. >> she was just programmed hillary. >> she was obviously overprepared. she wanted to make sure we heard every single scripted moment. john: that was the trump song. now we will listen to the tune the clinton chorus has been singing very joyfully today. >> i thought hillary clinton was prepared, donald trump was incoherent. >> he came on stage grossly unprepared. event kind of unraveled, came apart during the course of the debate and i think you disqualified himself on every level. >> hillary answered questions, and donald avoided them. hillary told the truth and donald told some whoppers.

it really showed her off as prepared to be commander-in-chief. >> she came ready to talk about the future, not ready to just insult. >> i don't think donald trump can be president. he does not have the temperament. john: mark, this all matters in some sense. people make fun of spin-meisters, but these matter a lot. in terms of how these two campaigns of hamlet, who is making their case better? mark: this is an area where technical proficiency and size matters. the clinton campaign is learning from the obama template about how to aggressively be out and have surrogates on all forms of media. i actually think, given the trump team is so much smaller, so much less experienced than most of the positions, do not think they did a bad job of creating the impression "the red team says this, the blue team says this." clinton people do better, but the trump people did surprisingly well. john: they have done a good job preventing panic among supporters.

that is important. , they havelly tell covered a lot of debates, right in the spin room, the clinton campaign was out before the debate was over and they were not only arguing that she won but you could tell they believed it. the trump campaign came out much later, and other they somewhat try to try, bottom line in backroom conversations, you can tell they knew they had been beaten, and they just did not have that look in their eyes. mark: the clinton people were barely trying to spin. just hey, what's going on? they were happy to let the candidate speak for herself. i will say, the clinton people are fighting readiness. it will be interesting to see that only of trump does better but if this operation improves. there are lots of people involved that have never done this before, certainly not at this level. john: almost everyone on the

clinton team has worked on the presidential campaign and has gone out in spin rooms and talk to reporters. mark: i think it is still the case that the clinton people have more people doing social media communications event trump has employees. john: what donald trump has said about a former miss universe is out of this world. be right back. ♪

♪ john: one of the sharpest barbs on the debate stage came from hillary clinton. the topic? things donald trump has said about women. in particular she told the story of a 1996 miss universe pageant winner from venezuela, who trump had called "miss housekeeping" and "miss piggy."

this after she gave away. he addressed it directly this morning on "fox and friends." he dug himself and even deeper. mr. trump: i know that person. she was a miss universe person. she was the worst we ever had. she was the absolute worst. she was impossible. she was the winner. she gained a massive amount of weight. it was a real problem. john: the clinton campaign is trying to make those words a real problem for donald trump. today, she held a conference and so she plans to help hillary clinton get elected. the clinton campaign sent out a two minute when video of the beauty queen telling her own story in spanish. mark, this is undeniably ugly. do you think it will have a lasting resonance with voters? mark: it has lasting residence with the media. i think it shows the clinton

campaign's sense of timing to bring real people. the trump campaign brought real people to the convention. reminiscent of the romney campaign with some real people testifying on his behalf and then those people disappear. i think this goes right to the core of semantics with immigrants, women trump's , temperament. i don't know how much this will hurt trump, but given his reaction, this will have some legs for him while in this one will hurt him. the clinton people will take this on a wide and targeted basis. john: kellyanne conway have acknowledged donald trump has a problem with suburban women. doing what he did, not the things he said in 1996, but by getting on television this morning and fat shaming this woman, he has destroyed all of the work they have tried to do on his behalf. there is not a person in this country who thinks it's ok for a

man to go on television who says, you are the worst because you got fat. mark: this shows his weakness as a candidate. you can bet anyone who might speak at against hillary clinton, she knows the facts. trump lest i was like, where well, it has been in the are you getting this information? well, it has been in the newspaper. they read the new york times. the fact that he had no preparation. as you said, his response last night and today was to lash back out at her, someone who -- john: who has done nothing to donald trump! mark: does not know anything about her. on the basis of the facts, it is just foolish. john: there is still excuse for it in any case, but in this case this woman is fully innocent in , this case. it is absurd. mark: she will be back. he better get a better answer. this is probably one of the times he should apologize. one debate down, three left to go. hillary clinton and donald trump are facing off in a town hall session in st. louis on october

9. 10 days after that, there is the third and final presidential debate in las vegas october 19. but next up, the vice presidential debate in farmville, virginia, a week from today. is it last night's debate going to shape the contours of the remaining debates? to 2012,eep going back but you will remember after barack obama losses the debate to mitt romney, into the stakes. a lot of pressure on joe biden. a lot of pressure on paul ryan, but more on biden. that is because democrats were panicking and joe biden had to box him up. i think this vice presidential debate will be a snooze. mark: i think there is a bit of pressure on pence. it is comparable because the republicans need to be the lead uoyed.

to me the biggest factor is that trump needs to win the next debate. that it is a townhall. he has not done enough townhall's let alone this debate. people talk about how he needs to be more aggressive. being aggressive and a townhall, if trump does not prepare for this more significantly, including a 90 minute session with state questioners, he is going to be committee malpractice. john: pause on that. it's one one thing to say you will not do mock debates. that is down to say you are not going to do mock debates. this is a more complicated enterprise. we have seen building a set that looks like the site, populating -- the set. populating it with people that are not real people to throw questions out of left field. it is just a totally different set of questions. john: it is six dimensional chess. that is so complicated it is. mark: you can try to predict what a moderator will ask but you cannot predict this.

you can imagine trump saying, i know how to talk to real people, i have been doing it my whole life. she will be as well practiced for this are she was last night. john: and the stakes are higher for him by a lot. when we come back, republican congressman tom marino to tell us why donald trump had a better night than we think he did. that is right after this. ♪

♪ mark: welcome back. we are joined by republican congressman from pennsylvania tom marino. he is a trump supporter. congressman, thanks for joining us. >> my pleasure. mark: can you imagine he might have hurt himself with some

female voters in the issues he said what -- about women in the past were raised? rep. marino: not necessarily. i am sure there are some out there that were turned off by that. donald trump is donald trump. that is why he has the following that he has. it is a populist movement here, men and women, young people from all walks of life. he was typical donald trump. that is why he has won more votes in a primary than anyone else. hillary clinton was the same old hillary clinton. let's wrap it up nice and neat, but still continue to deny the issues concerning benghazi, denying issues concerning her servers and so on. and how great the country is doing. i found it absolutely amazing when she was bringing on how of a shape the country is,

how safe it is. i cannot remember 10-15 years ago, other than 9/11, where we were having the shootings we are having in this country because of renegade islamic extremist terrorism. john: did you have any problems hearing mr. trump last night? rep. marino: no i didn't. john: when he complained about having a faulty microphone, maybe having given that on purpose, you had no difficulty discerning the words coming out of his mouth. rep. marino: no. i have excellent hearing. i had the tv on in my office. john: how do you think lester holt did as a moderator? you think he treated mr. trump fairly? rep. marino: absolutely not. i am very disappointed. he did not take hillary clinton on on any issues. she had a one-liner on her server and e-mails. i am sorry it happened, if i had

to do it over again, i would never do it. then they went back to trump on the tax issues and statements he has made. i am disappointed in holt. i thought he was different than that. but last night he really showed his bias. mark: what do you think donald trump's most likely path is to 270 electoral votes? what states would involve winning? rep. marino: my state of pennsylvania. i believe if he can win pennsylvania, he can win it. people are sick and tired of being sick and tired of the establishment. why would i endorse him? i ask this rhetorical question. how has it been going with these 30 years with governors, senators and career politicians as president? terrorism in the country, unemployment, businesses are leaving. i want a person that has created tens of thousands of jobs. says what is on his mind. i to not always agree with that, but says what is on his mind and not worried about being politically correct. john: mark asked you earlier

about female voters. it seems the comments he is made about miss universe and the comments that he made this morning upset some people when he was going back and talking about her weight again. you understand the importance of suburban women in your state if pennsylvania will be winnable. would you advise mr. trump to talk about this in the way that he does? or do you think that is usually -- usually problematic for him if he has to win your state? rep. marino: if he is going to win pennsylvania, i want him to be like he has been doing -- sticking to the issues. telling people in pennsylvania how he's going to improve the quality of their lives and how he is going to create jobs for them. if he sticks to that, he is going to win. mark: just a short answer if you would. was donald trump everything you thought he needed to be to win the debates? do you think he needs to improve for the next one? rep. marino: i think he needs to be more aggressive. i think he purposely backed off from that.

he is aware now that no, he cannot do that. there is a bias in the fact that clinton is not taken to task on her issues. he has to bring them off, even if he has to interview, excuse me, even if he has to interrupt the moderator, which he had to do last night. mark: congressman tom marino. thank you very much. president obama's former campaign manager joining us in a minute. we will talk about the debate last night and the electoral college situation right after this. ♪

♪ ms. clinton: i'm excited about where we are in this country. he talks down america every chance he gets. he calls us names, he calls as a

third world country and talks in such dire and dark terms. that's not who america is. we are the best problem solvers in the world. our diversity is a strength. john: that was hillary clinton talking to reporters today. we are joined now by a man who helped president obama prepare for a few debates and says hillary clinton has a 100%, i repeat that, 100% chance of winning the white house, a 0% chance of losing the white house. you mr. 100%ub david plouffe. barack obama lost the first debate in denver and at the time, you the time and subsequently said he lost it but the structure of the race did not change much. there was a little blip in the polling but the level went out back to where it was before. went to be think this debate

victory, why do we think it will matter in terms of the outcome of the election? >> there were a couple differences. number one, we were ahead in that debate. we went on probation. if we lost the second debate, we would have been in deep trouble. the second, i agree with mark. there was no oops moment but there was still a lot of things she can take out of that hall, donna from saying he was too smart to play -- pay taxes, what he said about iraq. obama, we were bad that night, but a bad 90 minute performance. there was not much more romney to take out of it. i think those are the two differences between and now. 2012 mark: is there a point at which the clinton campaign can say we have determined the american people are not going to find donald trump acceptable? david: it has to continue. the two biggest moments left are the two debates. i think she did a good job today. you have got to control the

agenda every day as much as you can. the town hall debate is a much different beast and i don't think it's a natural home game for either one of them. john: you said it was 75% of matter remaining in the campaign. obviously, she did well last night, what do you think the other 25% is between now and election day? david: probably 15% or 20% of the other two debates and the rest is the execution of the campaign. the one thing i know hillary clinton did it last night was make democrats, people that were not sure they were going to vote more enthusiastic. i think she can add to that in the town hall. john: how do know that? >> first of all, democrats are easily panic and i think she looked strong, she took the fight to him, she talked a lot of progressive issues. by the way, if that is all she did, i would have been pleased. but she did good with moderate swing voters. mark: when campaigns are going poorly, particularly in your party, people start to panic and criticize. there have been a host of criticisms of the campaign.

what are the criticisms people are making of the clinton campaign's workings and are they valid in any way? >> i do not really think so. i have been through these. you got your valleys and your mountaintops and when you are the valley, it's no fun. mark: i know you are saying you that they are not true and you are advising the campaign, what are people saying about the clinton campaign that is not doing the right thing. what are those things? >> there are two parts of the campaign, the organizational side and i have heard very the will, to about that, the data, ground operations, are you factoring into that in your daily strategic part of the campaign. obviously, i think they handled the illness in accurately. had they handled that better. generally, they are in a very

good place. i think they have been super smart about the states they go to. i think the map narrowed a little bit, so how do you apply resources and time will be important. john: a bloomberg politics poll came out yesterday and with millennial voters, hillary clinton was 40% barack obama was and donald trump was 30%. barack obama was at 60%. that is a 20 point cap. -- gap. what is she need to do to fix that? can she fix it? >> that's a problem, not just a campaign problem. i think that to me is still working. executing these two debates and figuring out how to get your vote share up and get the turnout is the biggest thing happening. john: but this is millennials in particular. david: things like last night help. that provides more energy for volunteers, because the best way to get in millennial -- there are bunch of 18, 19, 20-year-old who did not vote for barack obama because they were not eligible. there's also a bunch of

millennials that are choosing johnson and they have to heal those off. this is the most important thing left in the campaign. it is not a crisis, but it is a huge problem. mark: is the clinton campaign thinking that if johnson's vote is high, we need to go after him? david: i could it's having the intelligence on who is an undecided voter and who is soft johnson. historically, those third-party numbers drift down. but a state like colorado, it's going to be healthy. they may have to make the case, do not go after him, but do not waste your vote on him. john: you are going to stay here with us because we are going to map out the 2016 election battleground states map in the map after these words from our sponsor. ♪

♪ mark: we are back with david plouffe, a man that says hillary clinton has a 100% chance of winning. that means there's no scenario that we could lay out to get donald trump to get the electoral vote up this that he would advise of the public begin david and here to look at the scenarios that the republicans are talking about. explain why they are not just possible.e but i democrats concede iowa is probably going to be a trump state. all of the possible scenarios start with the big three, plus i. that gets him to 259. let's look at the first scenario

that could get donald trump to 270 which would be adding an here pennsylvania. the so-called pennsylvania path, doesn't need to win anything but the big three. you could concede trump could win the victory and iowa. david: the two states he's doing best in our iowa and ohio. -- are iowa and ohio. i will still be her -- rather be heard than him. mark: is it impossible that he wins florida? david: i think it's very unlikely. she is doing better in the public pulling than we ever did and the state has become more demographically friendly so be good when it by 2.5 now mark: . can he win north carolina? he can. let's put florida aside. tell us why pennsylvania is impossible. david: it is the easter bunny. it doesn't exist.

he is going to walk out of philly and the three suburban counties, delaware, montgomery and she is going to have north of 500,000 margin. there is numerically not enough votes. mark: has that state become more democratic? trump was a different candidate, i think it would still be hard for republicans. it is like his northern virginia problem in the colorado summer problem. could he get within two or three, i think he could, that he cannot get to a win number. john: let's look at scenario number two. it begins with the big three plus iowa and then you add nevada, new hampshire and the main second district. that gets you right at 270. the second district of maine -- david: i think she's going to win new hampshire quite comfortably. i think that southern tier is similar to what we have been

talking about. i think nevada, at the end of the day, i know the polls are going to be close, but because of the latino vote, new hampshire and nevada. i think she is searching to win new hampshire, in my view. in thearack obama won bottom of times. why is she behind in polling in nevada? david: there are some polls that show 40-38. this is where the races. donald trump may be at a ceiling, but he's closer to the feeling that she is. she's going to win more of the undecided vote in my view. she is going to get more of the third-party candidates. you have the latino and undecided vote. that is huge. our own polling in nevada was never as rosie as the ultimate election outcome. mark: let's look at three last scenarios that you are going to

say cannot happen. colorado, noing chancellor? david: this includes them winning florida. mark: every scenario. john: all of these scenarios and iowa.hree what about winning the silver state of wisconsin? david: wisconsin is going to be a clinton state. so as michigan and minnesota. the democratic strength and iow. in the midwest, but i do not see it happening for him. john: unique strength because of the african-american vote? david: he was from illinois. it was really interesting. we do not have to spend much time and money of it. wisconsin was closer because of paul ryan. john: colorado right now, the poll is closer. gary johnson is getting a big chunk of that vote. david: one or two polls had a it close. if you look at modeling out 100% of the electorate, that maybe

one of johnson is best states, dustin johnson posing the states. i do not think he is going to get 12% or 14%. you add suburban swing voters, which i think she will win in a dominating way, maybe even more than the one in 2012. mark: you have said that the math has narrowed. perhaps at the end, pick two of these scenarios and say, go all in. trump could do a week long a bus for in pennsylvania. dated: no, because florida -- mark: let's assume iowa and ohio are safe. not for sure, the sheila david: i think she is going to win them both. iowa and ohio. mark: your campaign is little less optimistic. but let's say we get to the last three weeks and he's got those very well secured.

he could campaign in four states. he could campaign of florida, north carolina and any to that get him over the top. at that point, you are running for governor for four states at the same time. he could pour money and, right? republican allies could come in. david: he does not have much of an organization. again, that's mark: the republican party has in organization. i agree, but in the end, you are saying look at the national map and he can get to 270. but what if a guy who's willing to drop a lot of money to say i am going into four states for three weeks? david: he's a flawed product and that is where my confidence comes in. this guy is not going to be elected president. john: your basic argument is he is not going to win all four of the state? david: i would much rather be her. iowa and ohio are the toughest. mark: if you are watching this

program in washington, d.c., there is a 100% chance you can listen to it on 99.1 fm. we will be right back. ♪

♪ john: with us now is casey hunt who follows the clinton campaign. nbc news correspondent katie where trump will be holding a rally later tonight. how can, what will the clinton campaign do to capitalize on her strong debate performance? what is the campaign saying about that? >> i think the thing that means

the most in the last 24 hours is hillary's demeanor. she has come across as lose, relaxed, turn with a comment and her surgery -- shoulder that is not something she does. she has not typically shown ease and willingness to answer those questions and those types of situations. if she can hang onto that confidence, she will make a real difference. mark: it may allow her to answer hard questions and she may take some. that style, that attitude seems to lend herself -- itself to getting through the inevitable rough issues. >> i think that is right. you saw her answer last night, the debate did not get into e-mails, but when it did, she gave basically factually the same answer she has given, but the tone she used was remarkably different. i think if she continues in that van, that is a place they can be effective. katie, you have spoken to

trump advisors or some of them acknowledge the last night was not his finest hour. >> last night was not what they wanted. anted a more presidential trump, the donald trump that went down to meet with the mexican president, not the donald trump that went on the attack unnecessarily. they said they were expecting hillary clinton to come at him and knock him off his game. they said he was ready for that , clearly though he was not. what they are trying to do, and you know this, is expand his base. his supporters are with them no matter what. they are not going to leave him. he needs to find a way to get those moderate republicans, they women to come into his camp, but to do that, he has to seem like a less risky choice. hillary clinton keeps calling him basically a scary choice. he has got to prove to them that

he is not at the very least, keep them from voting for hillary clinton. last night he was erratic, interrupting her 29 times. she interrupted him nine times. he made a bunch of factual errors. he did not come across as someone that could let something slide. this was not their finest hour. obviously they are trying to put a public face on this, they are trying to use it to their advantage by saying he is a unique candidate. that is what paul ryan said today, and calling the mcclendon canned and staged and over practiced and scripted, so they are trying to spin it in their favor, but it is hard to see how that debate performance gets them new supporters. john: david plouffe made the point that there are various things donald trump said that the clinton campaign can try to capitalize on and exploit. among the many things that might be problematic, where does the campaign think they can keep

getting mileage out of the mistakes he made, given that he did not have any oops moments. >> what he had to say about the housing crisis is one, but he had to say about the birther issue to people of color is another thing. but i think what happened with miss universe is the one thing -- the election being so much about particularly suburban women. you saw her deliberately try to get that in at the end. even they were a little bit surprised he went as far as he did, essentially defending himself, doubling down and repeating himself. i think that is something that i think have some staying power. mark: what about the next debate? she took a lot of time off the trail to practice and prepare. there are fewer days now until election day.

do you expect her to have a lot of down days to prepare or be more like on the front end out there campaigning with some practice on the site? >> my sense is that they do feel like she needs to be out there on the one hand, and i think it is very important for them to be balanced making sure she gets enough rest, frankly. mark: any indication that trump will practice more given how he did last night? >> the campaign wants him to practice more but they admit it's hard to get him to focus on the issues. to get him to focus on any one thing. that is what you see him campaigning, because he is the guy that likes to be on the go. i will tell you this, he wish on videotape of himself from the past of eight, the primary debates, and they showed him where he used to improve, and he thought every answer he gave was perfect, so there was not a lot of room to tell him that he could have done something better because he refused to see it. will this be a wake-up call? we did start to see him on the

prompt or more. if this results in a downturn in the polls, i would expect he will take it more seriously. but if the polls remain the same and he sees a reason not to change, i cannot imagine donald trump is going to be a different candidate than he has been for the past 16 months. john: what you put on your psychoanalyst had? -- hat? do you think his mentions of the microphone and a moderator and excuses you made, does that not signify some kind of passive acceptance of the notion that he did not perform that well? that he lost the debate? >> i made, he may be trying to convince himself that he performed well and everyone is out to get him, that the mike was not good. last night he said lester was a good moderator and today he says he got unfair questions.

this is the same thing he said during the primaries. he would declare himself the winner and talk about these online polls that he won, but then at the same time he would be coming out the moderators, megyn kelly, calling on his opponents saying everyone is being unfair. this is the same thing we have been seeing over and over again. i expect, even if he did a wonderful jobless not come as you would still say there's something wrong because it is part of his narrative. it is part of who he is. he is running against the establishment, and everyone else from the media to the moderators to the microphone, to hillary clinton is the establishment. mark: the microphone is the establishment. john: that is a whole new marshall mcluhan like phrase. >> i said it first. john: thank you guys. you are wonderful and fabulous. ♪

♪ mark: there is all of the postdebate coverage you could possibly want on our website, bloomberg politics.com. there is a special edition of surveillance prime time. john, tomorrow, the next day after the next day, what you looking for? john: hillary clinton goes to new hampshire and will be with bernie sanders to talk about college affordability. the millennial problem is a real, huge problem and that is one step that is try to solve it. mark: i talked to a lot of people who say i don't care who he is for, we will make up our own mind. we will be back here tomorrow night, same bat time, same bat channel. until tomorrow, sayonara. ♪

♪ it is wednesday, the 28th of september. i am angie lau. this is "trending business". ♪ angie: here is what we are watching for you this morning, debut day for china's postal savings bank, listing in hong kong. erases losses ahead of opec talks. saudi arabia says it is unlikely to freeze production today. elon musk planning a human colony on mars i