>> previously on "with all due respect" -- john: your basic argument is the premise is he will not win all four of those states? mark: no, no, but florida and north carolina, i would much rather be her. iowa and ohio are the toughest. mr. trump: did you see these characters with the maps? the electoral college? about a month ago, a very small path for trump. today i'm watching, they are looking at all these paths. john: with all due respect to donald trump, you can take our maps when you pry them from our cold, dead fingers. ♪

john: for two guys with so many maps, it's amazing how often we are directionless and lost. donald trump still facing backlash over his fat shaming of a former miss universe. she spent the last way for hours telling her story with cnn, fox news, and the today show. >> what were the names he called you? >> miss piggy, ms. housekeeping. ms. eating machine. >> to your face? >> yes! all the time. i know what i lived with him and he knows, too. he was really aggressive. he was really rude. he was a bad person with me, and that is the story that i need to

share for my community. we cannot accept more insults for my latin community. no more. i need to share my story. i think i can open a few eyes. i can maybe change a few minds. you know, i don't think this person is the right person that can be a president. john: we will talk about how the media has been covering this story in a moment, but my question for you in this hour is if the story is accelerating for starting to settle down. mark: i think the campaign could be forgiven for thinking it would just go away because that has happened in the past when he has had these flaps. some of them have lingered, but

not as dominant. the reason i think this may linger in a pretty hot way is we are in a different phase of the campaign. this happened in a debate, not a rally or not an offhanded remark to fox. this happened in the debate in such a high profile way. and she is someone who, for whatever flaws she might have, what trump said about her will resonate with a lot of people. i think it is still moving. i think the campaign believes they can ignore it and they may be wrong. john: yesterday on the show, i thought it was nuts to insult someone in a way that has such a resonance with so many people. we learned yesterday 85 million people watched that debate. let's say that is 40 million women. let's say every one of those people know someone who has dealt with weight issues -- mark: certainly everyone who knows me knows someone like that. john: these are issues that are not political, abstract, policy issues.

or even abstract political issues. these are like the grist of the culture, the kinds of things people talk about over the dinner table every day, and that is very dangerous terrain to insult many millions of people in that way, which is why i think you are right. she has come across quite sympathetically in most of her media. i have not seen all, but in the ones i have seen, she has come across like she is hurt. she has a right to be hurt. i do not know of the campaign will ever apologize to her, but you said yesterday that they should, and i think today even more than yesterday, it would be smart to shut this down by apologizing. mark: i do not care if she went out on fifth avenue and shot someone, what he said to her or about her was wrong and rude and insensitive, and a think a lot of people will feel that way. the press is not going to drop this. the clinton campaign is not going to drop it. i'm not saying it will dominate or cost the election, but they are wrong to think that at this stage, the highest profile thing, the debate, that this is just another person trump insulted and who cares. john: a lot of people think donald trump is a bully.

you can be mean to your political opponents and no one cares because that is expected of politicians, but when you start bullying try the citizens, if it's a gold star family or a judge from indiana, you are in a different terrain. mark: i will just say one more thing -- the dominant meme right now in his campaign is that trump and his campaign are not performing competently. the debate was not handled competently. the prism through which this is being seen as incompetent -- the and they can put it down. as we said, the trump campaign has largely been shrugging off the story. last night, trump's spokeswoman was on megyn kelly's set during the story we showed you -- the interview we showed you a little bit earlier. here was her reaction. >> the individuals who participate in these contests have a weight clause.

>> he is constantly evaluating women based on a number. he has called women fat pigs. >> mr. trump owned a beauty pageant. that is where some of that comes from. that is also entertainment. that is also television. when you look at women, for example, like his wife and his daughters -- they say he treats everyone the same, so we cannot say he only does this to women. he will criticize those who criticize him. >> but you cannot be a 10 if you are flat-chested. what is there -- what is the equivalent of a man? >> everyone has their opinion of what a 10 is. mark: people have been digging up alicia machado's past. the drive-by media, as rush limbaugh calls our ilk, has been giving this story plenty of coverage. he called her a poor and star.

the fox network is a different story. they covered it last night, but today, they could not seem to find the time. they did however seem to find time to cover these important stories. >> have you seen this story? a marriage proposal turning into a major ordeal last night at yankee stadium. >> if you were a capricorn, you may now be a sagittarius according to nasa. you may have always had a different sign and never knew it. >> where this monster storm is hitting and where it is headed. >> local got caught in the carpool lane. >> this ticket is going to be huge. >> a new book on the unsolved murder of jonbenet ramsey. >> he has been obsessed with the idea of getting humans on mars and colonizing mars. john: there were a few rare instances in which machado did come up on fox, but it was quickly quieted.

a woman in a focus group brought up machado and was immediately cut off. the hosted not bring her up. -- the host did not bring her up. >> when you go on national television the morning after the debate and attack someone and call them a paid an insult her -- it is an insult to all women. it is about the values of our nation. >> according to all women, your response -- >> it's about values, the values of this nation. >> that was not positive for her. mark: the apparent effort by conservative media either to defend trump on this or ignore this story -- will it effectively discourage the trump campaign from changing course? john: one of the things that is true about republican politicians is that as the campaign gets longer and longer, they get sucked into the conservative media cocoon and stop talking to anyone outside

that cocoon. it is understandable. you want to praise, not the criticism. you want the easy questions, not the hard questions. but it is not to your political benefit to do that. if donald trump is just looking at fox news and reading breitbart, he does not understand what kind of resonance this is having in the real world. it is a big deal. mark: if they think they are getting a realistic appraisal of how this issue is playing, not just in the media, but with real people -- every reporter i know is being asked about this by people who are not involved in politics -- they are kidding themselves, doing trump a disservice, and if he is watching fox inking they're not talking about it and he does not have to deal with it -- insane. john: we watched the same thing happen in 2012 when mitt romney and paul ryan started thinking

benghazi was a huge story. because they were talking about it on fox news. it was the polar opposite. mark: the other thing is fox can ignore it all they want, but it is getting huge play everywhere else. it is one thing to be in the cocoon when you are trying to win the nomination, but when you are trying to win a general election -- john: even if you think the rest of the media is liberally biased, it does you no good not to pay attention because those supposedly biased media are reaching millions of voters that you need. mark: i often talk about the bias in the media. covering a story with a couple can nominate insulted a woman about her weight, nothing to do with liberal bias -- covering a story where the republican nominee insulted a woman about her weight. fox will continue to ignore this.

if that makes trump think the story is going away, i say again, wrong. john: it's like a bunch of monkeys with their hands over their ears and eyes and mouth. when we come back, we will talk about bernie sanders' and michelle obama's millennial hopes and dreams right after this. ♪

mark: 'sup, millennials? we have talked about how many of you are still lukewarm on hillary clinton, which is why today, clinton is at a college town to talk more about student debt with the coolest white-haired dude in all of politics, her former rival, bernie sanders. we have noticed a

new line of millennial persuasion being used by clinton and their team. they're concerned young voters might vote for libertarian candidate gary johnson or green party jill stein or might not turn out at all. her many attempt to inspire young voters to turn up for clinton, many are trying to also scare them, saying that doing anything but voting for clinton could lead -- would lead to a trump presidency. two people out promoting her message, first lady michelle obama, and her presence -- her husband president obama doing a radio interview. that aired on the steve harvey morning show. president obama: if you don't vote, that's a vote for trump. if you vote for a third-party candidate who has no chance to win, that is a vote for trump. mrs. obama: if you vote for someone other than hillary or do not vote at all, you are helping to elect hillary's opponent, and the stakes are far too high to take that chance. too high.

remember -- it's not about voting for the perfect candidate. there is no such person. mark: is this a tactic that will turn millennials out and turn them out to vote for hillary clinton? john: it has to be a two-pronged thing. she has to talk about her college affordability plan, making people aware that she and sanders for a key issue for a lot of millennials are really joined at the hip. that is on the positive side. some of this raising the stakes of the election and making clear for millennials that they have skin in the game and things could be worse from the democratic point of view if trump wins will be part of the message, but it cannot be all of it. mark: from the millennials i have talked to who were wildly enthusiastic about sanders -- he was a different thing. they did not like him because he was a democrat. they did not like him because he was a politician. they do not like him because they had long followed his

career. they like his authenticity and passion and antiestablishment sensibility. getting them to vote for clinton will be difficult. if they were forced to vote, i think a lot of them would give up johnson and stein, but the current state of affairs, i think this could be the key thing in the whole election. john: it is the crucial question. very little of that millennial vote parked with gary johnson -- very little of it i think would go to trump. what portion goes to clinton and what portion stays home is, in some of the states where jobs are at 10 and 11%. mark: for a lot of them, obviously -- i talked to some in florida last week and said that bernie sanders really wants them to vote for hillary clinton and that sanders and clinton are almost indistinct civil on -- almost indistinguishable on issues. john: issues they should care about. mark: none of them were swayed in the end. all five were unmoved. there was no light bulb.

no notion of of course i will do that in the end. maybe, probably, i don't like trump. john: even the sanders is older than donald trump, he was in new -- he was new. his newness is what was attractive. they seem as a new force of politics. mark: they don't look trump, but they think of clinton is a totally different species than sanders. sanders is what got them engaged in politics and to some extent, president obama got them involved. the new wave of millennials -- they like sanders. john: his unconventionality and that he wanted to break the system. hillary clinton, even though she does agree with bernie sanders, does not want to break the system. finally, we have to turn to some sad news from last night. former israeli president shimon peres died at the age of 93. among those paying the respect the person will be bill clinton, vice president biden, and president obama released a heartfelt statement that read in part, "there are few people we

share this world with who changed the course of human history not just through their role in human events but because they expand our moral imagination and force us to expect more of ourselves. my friend shimon was one of those people." mark: more popular in some ways in america than in israel. he did a courageous and tough thing, when against public opinion and fought to normalize the notion of negotiations to try to bring about peace. he got the oslo accords to be accepted as a touchstone, as a framework, and he did a difficult thing. he went against the public view to try to change the public view, and the peace process, as tattered as it is, would not be anything like where it has gone if it were not for him. john: he had a hugely historic role in establishing the state of israel. he fought for israel's independence and then tried to dream of peace. it is interesting that even his

staunchest foes, a guy like benjamin netanyahu, they all admired his historic place in israel. his commitment to the state of israel and even about the prospects for peace and had to get there, admired the fact that he was a realist dreamer. the combination of being hard eyed but also still as firing. -- aspiring. mark: he will be missed, and it will be quite a funeral for him with a lot of world leaders. up next, we'll talk about the new york times mediaman about the machado controversy and a whole lot more after this. ♪ john: welcome back.

our next guest is a columnist

for what donald trump likes to call the failed "new york times." tell me about what you think of this 24 hours of coverage. yesterday was basically about who won and who lost. talk about where the debate fallout story is going from the media point of view. >> it is going in, like, five different directions. we have continued fallout over a comment about a former beauty queen. we have questions about if he will buckle down and prepare more for his next debate. there are gender questions about how the debate meant for hillary clinton. the debate did not disappoint, and huge ratings, too. the debate delivered more than i have ever seen in my time cover -- covering politics and media. mark: what other storylines came out your paper has a story about

, debate prep. is that a big deal? mr. rutenberg: i think hillary clinton and her seemingly prepared remarks -- this stuff is i am preparing for the president -- presidency. mark: i like how you call this seemingly prepared. mr. rutenberg: a clearly landed. the way the campaign is embracing it. mark: if you cannot prepare for a debate, how will you prepare to be president? mr. rutenberg: it's a good argument, and that's why trump's campaign is talking about changing how he prepares for the next one. i don't think that is a gimmick and that is such a talking point, i think they mean it. john: all the talk today about alicia machado has seeped into british tabloids and conservative talk radio about her negative past.

we reference the them glancing at the beginning of the show. have you seen thus far any mainstream, non-right outlets that will pick those up, and do you anticipate they will if they have not already? mr. rutenberg: i have not seen anyone pick up and run with it the same way. does the trump campaign want another story about this tomorrow morning? i do not know if the candidate fighting with a third party -- he's not focusing on the things people thought he did well on. mark: the press loves a winner. that is one of the biases. hillary clinton seems to be the winner, and i have not seen any negative stories about hillary clinton on anything. since the debate. a lot of negative stories about trump. is that bad practice for the media? shall we not say she won the debate so no more investigative stories, no more asking her about her e-mails, etc.? mr. rutenberg: i think what everyone has to do is take a deep breath. before the debate, the height was this would change the dynamic of the race.

nobody is really feeling that today. maybe in a couple of days, we will see. everybody has got to calm down a little bit. do your job. mark: should part of our job be saying that just because she won the debate, every story about trump has to be tilted in a negative direction and all the stories about her have to be tilted in a positive direction? mr. rutenberg: it does not. i do not get will. mark: it seems that is happening now. mr. rutenberg: it does, but we are just -- what day is it now? mark: it's just you win the debate, and you get a get out of jail free card for at least 48 hours now. mr. rutenberg: i don't like making predictions, but i predict that will not last. john: true or false -- donald trump is an unusually savvy -- media savvy candidate. mr. rutenberg: the most media savvy i have seen in my

lifetime. john: so, true. what is it about trump that -- we know he did not prepare for the debate, but he blew some of the most basic elements, not knowing what the split screen would do. not seeming to get the things he always seemed to get so well before. how does one explain that? mr. rutenberg: i wonder if he, shockingly, was a little bit nervous. maybe he is human in that. i also think there has been so little consequence to him getting basic things wrong you know he could get right in other situations. maybe he thought he could amble through and it would be ok. part of what has made him compelling this year has been the sort of hot mess quality that sometimes takes over. mark: liberals will kill you on twitter for saying trump was human. mr. rutenberg: i said maybe.

mark: good point. thank you, jim. mr. rutenberg: i will never be on the show again. john: thanks for coming in. you were great. that is it for tonight. thanks for watching. trending business is up next. sayonara. ♪

♪ it is thursday, the 29th of september. i am haidi lun. this is "trending business". ♪ angie: we will be live in melbourne, singapore, and taipei this hour. oil maintaining its post-opec rise. tte group companies on the rise after a court threw out an arrest warrant for the chairman. the imf hands a warning to