they go. in terms of what we will see in the spin room, who will be making the case for -- who will the trump can't put out -- camp put out? >> they learned they weren't quite aggressive enough in waited for donald trump to make his own case falls that i think the clinton campaign was out and i think the trump campaign manager to counter that and be a little faster. whether or not releasing ahead will see. good, we >> we go back to mark and john standing by. : we are indeed standing by year.

everyone is very excited about the demo trump live tweeting almost excited as they are about the debate itself. we are also on twitter live streaming onto your and road device, your iphone. this is different than the presidential debate. then the most anticipated thing in the history of the world. perhaps didebate alter the contours of the presidential race. there is not the same anticipation here.

should be asking questions of them very since a similar -- very similar to what we saw the presidential debate. these are two guys were very prepared of my donald trump -- unlike donald trump and we expect them to bring to bear not only their preparation but years of experience. both have been governor.

john: it's in the state of virginia. tim kaine has won in the state nine times for mayor, governor. he is very much a hometown candidate. you can see it as you go out around the university. back -- will be right we will be back right after the debate. a 90 minute debate. you can switch over between bloomberg television and twitter and watch us all for the full 90 minutes. now we go to the town hall for the first and only vice presidential debate. from longwood, university, welcome to the first and only vice presidential debate of 2016 dr. by the -- sponsored by the

commission on presidential debates. moderate thisto debate between senator tim kaine and governor mike pence. both are longtime public servant who are also proud fathers of sons serving in the u.s. marines. have agreed to the rules of this debate. there will be nine different segments covering domestic and foreign-policy issues. each segment will begin with a question of both candidates and that they will have two minutes to answer. question willw-up facilitate a conversation. it has been determined senator kaine will be the first to answer the opening question. we have an enthusiastic audience tonight. they have agreed to openly express that includes he has him once at the end of the debate and right now as we welcome governor mike pence and senator tim kaine. [applause]

elaine: welcome. it truly is a privilege to be with both of you tonight. i would like to start with the topic of presidential leadership. 28 years ago, lloyd bentsen said the vice presidential debate was not about the qualifications for the vice presidency but about how a vice president has to step in without any margin for air takeut -- error to responsibility for the biggest job in the world. what about your quality, skills, and temperament that equip you to step into that role? mr. kaine: thank you for being

here tonight and governor pence, welcome. it's so great to be back at longwood university. this is a very special place. 65 years ago, a young, courageous woman, barbara johns, led a walkout of her high school and made history by protesting school segregation. she believed our nation was a stronger together and that walkout led to the brown versus board of education decision that moved us down the path for equality. i am so proud to be running with another strong history making woman, hillary clinton. i'm proud because her vision of stronger together, building an economy that works for all, being safe in the world not only with the strong military and a strong alliances to battle terrorism and climate change and respect a community of just like barbara johns tried to do 65 years ago. hillary told me why she asked metv her running mate. she said the test of a clinton

administration will not be the signing of a bill or the passage of a bill. it will be whether we can make somebody's life editor. it will be whether we can make a classroom a better learning environment, whether we can make it safer. it will be about results. she said "do you have been a missionary in a civil rights lawyer, city councilman, mayor, now a senator, i think you will help me figure out how to govern this nation so we always keep in mind that the success of the administration is the difference we make in people's lives and that is what i bring to the ticket, that experience. but my primary role is to be hillary clinton's right-hand person and a strong supporter at she puts together the most historic administration possible and i relish that role. i'm so proud of her. we trust hillary clinton with the most important thing in our life. we have a son deployed overseas

right now and we trust hillary clinton as president and commander-in-chief. he thought of donald trump scares us to death. mr. pence: thank you, elaine, and thank you to the university. it is humbling for me to be here. to be surrounded by my wonderful family and senator kaine, it's an honor to be here with you as well. i also want to say thank you to youyone looking into night understand what an anonymously important time this is in life of our nation. we have seen america's place in the world weekend. we are seen an economy stifled by more taxes, more regulation and a failing health care reform. the american people know we need to make a change. we want to thank all of you for being with us tonight. i also want to thank donald trump for making that call in

inviting us to be a part of this ticket. i am a small-town boy from a place not too different from armville for the i grew up in cornfield in my backyard and my grandfather immigrated to this country when he was about my son's age. built ar and father family in southern indiana and a good name and a business and they raised a family. i dream someday of representing my hometown it washington, d.c. but i never imagined i would have the opportunity to be governor of the state i love let alone be sitting at a table like this. so to answer your question, i ifld say i would hope that the responsibility ever felt to , i would bringe a lifetime of experience. a lifetime growing up in a small

town, a lifetime serving in the in the state of indiana. elaine: why do so many people distrust hillary clinton? is it because they have questions about her e-mails and the clinton foundation? mr. kaine: here is what people should look at when they look at a public servant. do they have a passion in their life that showed up before they were in public life and how they held onto that passion throughout their life regardless of whether they were in office or not succeeding or failing? hillary clinton has that passion from the time as a kid in the suburbs of chicago, she has been focused on serving others with a

special focus on empowering families and kids. , firstvil right lawyer lady of arkansas and this country, secretary of state, senator, it's always about putting others first and that's a sharp contrast with donald trump. donald trump puts himself first. on thebuilt a business backs of the little guy and as a candidate, started his campaign with a speech where he called mexicans rapist and criminals the discredited and really outrageous lie that president obama wasn't born in the united states. it is so painful to suggest we go back to think about these days when an african-american could not be a citizens of the u.s. and i cannot imagine how governor pence can defend the insult style of donald trump. pence, you have said donald trump is thoughtful, compassionate.

is a7% of voters feel he risky choice and 65% feel he does not have the right temperament to be president. why do so many americans think esther trump is too erratic? say first and me foremost that senator, you and hillary clinton would know about a lot of insult driven campaigns. at a time in the wake of hillary clinton's tenure as secretary of state when she was the architect of the obama administration's policy, we see entire portions of the world spinning out of control. any situation we are watching hour-by-hour, syria today is a result of the failed foreign-policy that hillary clinton helped lead and create. russia -- mboldened you both have said vladimir putin -- elaine: in just a moment. i do want to get back. mr. pence: thank you.

mr. kaine: you have praised vladimir putin as a great leader. elaine: we have that coming up but in the meantime, the question -- mr. pence: at a time of great challenge in the life of this nation where we have weakened america's place in the world, stifled america's economy, the campaign of hillary clinton has been an avalanche of insults. donald trump has built a business through hard times and good times. an extraordinary business acumen, has employed tens of thousands of people in this country. elaine: why the disconnect with your running mate? mr. pence: there's a reason why people question the trustworthiness of hillary clinton and that's because they're paying attention. ,hen she was secretary of state

come on. she had the clinton foundation accepting contributions from foreign governments. let me talk about -- mr. pence: i think it's still my time. mr. kaine: isn't this a discussion? mr. pence: let me finish my sentence if i can. the clinton foundation accepted foreign contributions from foreign governments and foreign donors while she was secretary of state. she had a private server -- mr. kaine: i get to weigh in. elaine: senator, please. you will have an opportunity -- , letaine: governor pence me tell you this. when hillary clinton became secretary of state, osama bin laden was alive and we had 175,000 troops deployed in the battlefield in iraq and afghanistan and iran was racing toward a nuclear weapon and russia was expanding its stockpile. under secretary clinton's leadership, she was part of the

national public safety team that went after and wife to bin laden off the face of the earth, worked a deal with the russians to reduce their stockpile, worked a tough negotiation with nations around the world to eliminate the iranian nuclear weapons program without firing a shot. mr. pence: eliminate? mr. kaine: absolutely without firing a shot. 15,000 troopse overseas instead of 175,000. mr. pence: and iraq has been overrun by isis. hillary clinton failed to renegotiate a status of forces agreement. mr. kaine: that is incorrect. mr. pence: isis has conjured up that vacuum and overrun vast areas of the world. mr. kaine: president bush said we would leave iraq at the end of 2007. iraq didn't want our troops to stay and they wouldn't give us the protection for our troops

and if a nation where our troops are serving does not want us to stay, we are not going to stay. mr. pence: it was a failure of the secretary of state -- elaine: a lot of people wondering about the economy. let's turn to the issue of the economy. according to the nonpartisan committee for the sponsor will federal budgets, neither of your economic plans will reduce the growing $19 trillion gross national debt. in fact, your plan would add even more to it. both of you were governors and balanced state budgets. are you concerned that adding more to the debt could be disastrous for the country? thatence: i think the fact under this passive administration which hillary clinton is a part, we have almost doubled the national debt . it's atrocious. i'm proud of the fact i come from a state where we have a balanced budget, we cut taxes and made record investments in education and infrastructure.

i still finished my term with $2 billion in the bank. that is different than what senator kaine was governor in virginia. he tried to raise taxes by $4 billion and left his estate $2 billion in the hole. in indiana, we cut unemployment in half. i think he's a very fitting running mate for hillary clinton because in the wake of a season where american families are struggling in this economy under the weight of higher taxes and obamacare and the war on coal in the avalanche coming out of this administration, hillary clinton and tim kaine want more of the same. they are actually advocating $1 trillion in tax increases. when trillion dollars in tax increases, more regulation, more of the same war on coal and more obamacare that even bill clinton -- s

hillary clinton wants to build on obamacare and expanded into a single-payer program and hillary clinton thinks obamacare is a good start. donald trump and i have a plan to get this economy moving again. just the way it worked in the 1980's and 1960's and that is by lowering taxes across the board for working families, ending the war on coal hurting this economy ,nd jobs, repealing obamacare and repealing all of the executive orders that barack that are signed stifling economic growth in this country. if we can get america moving again and the kind of trade deals that have put the america worker first and you have a prescription for real growth and when you get the economy growing, that is when you can deal with the national debt. when we get back to 4% growth with donald trump's plan, we will have the resources to meet our nation's needs at home and

abroad and have the ability to bring down the national debt. mr. kaine: there's a fundamental choice for the american , a higher president and hillary clinton or a fired president and donald trump. hillary and i have a plan on the table that is a you are hired plan. first thing we do is invest in manufacturing, infrastructure, and researching clean energy jobs. secondly, we invest in our workforce from pre-k education to great teachers to debt-free college and tuition free college. third, we promote fairness by and by the minimum wage paying them an equal pay for equal work. fourth, we promote small business growth just as we have done in virginia to make it easier to grow small businesses. hillary and i both grew up in small business families. my father is here tonight.

and we have a tax plan that targets tax relief to middle-class individuals and small businesses and asks those at the very top to pay more. the trump plan is a different plan and there are two key elements. first, donald trump said wages are too high and though donald trump and mike pence think we should eliminate the federal minimum wage, mike pence when he was in congress voted against raising the minimum wage about $5.15 and has been a one-man bulwark against minimum wage increases in indiana. the second component of the plan for theve tax breaks rich, trillions of dollars of tax breaks for people just like donald trump. is isoblem with this exactly what we did 10 years ago i put the economy in the deepest recession since the 1930's. independent analysts said the clinton campaign -- plan would grow by 10 million jobs and

donald trump, why would he do this because his tax plan basically helps him and if he ever met his promise and gave his tax return to the american public, we would see just how much his economic plan is really a trap first plan. elaine: the new york times recently released part of new trumps 1995 tax release. mr. trump said he brilliantly is the law to pay as little tax as legally possible. does that seem fair to you? mr. pence: let me say i appreciate the you are hired and you are fired thing, senator. i think you're running mate used a lot of those lines. ist you just heard out there more taxes, $2 trillion in more spending, more deficits, more debt, more government.

if you think that's working, then look at the other side of the table. the policies of this administration, which hillary clinton and senator kaine want to continue will run this economy into a ditch. 15 million new jobs. mr. pence: there are millions more people living in poverty than before obama stepped into the oval office. rolltly, senator, you can out the numbers but i have got to tell you people in scranton no different, people in indiana no different. this economy is struggling and the answer to this economy is not more taxes. mr. kaine: it's not actually for the folks at the top. with all due respect, the question was about whether it seems fair to you that mr. trump uses a lot to pay as

little tax as possible. mr. pence: this is the difference between donald trump and hillary clinton and senator kaine. hillary clinton and senator kaine, career public servants. donald trump is a businessman, not a career politician. he built a business. those tax returns that came out publicly showed he faced some tough times 20 years ago. like virtually every other has net operating loss. we have a tax code that actually is designed to encourage entrepreneurship. mr. kaine: why won't the release his tax returns? returns shows tax that he went through a very difficult time but he used it the way it's supposed to be use and did it brilliantly. mr. kaine: how do you know that? mr. pence: he has created a business worth billions of dollars.

with regard to paying taxes, this whole riff about not paying taxes and people saying he didn't pay taxes for years, donald trump created tens of thousands of jobs and has created -- aaine: i will give you response and i have a question. mr. kaine: donald trump started this campaign and 2014 and said if i run for president, i will release my taxes. he has broken that promise. stood on this stage last weekend when hillary said you haven't been paying taxes, he said that makes me smart. so it's smart not to pay for our military, not to pay for veterans, not to pay for teachers, and i guess those of us who do pay for those things are stupid. take all the you deductions you're entitled to? i do. mr. kaine: governor pence had to give donald trump his tax returns to show you was qualified to be vice president.

theld trump must give american public his tax returns to show he's qualified and he's breaking his promise. mr. pence: i have to respond to this. over 100ump has filed pages of financial disclosure. i need to ask you about social security. the people at home cannot understand either one of you when you speak over your child there. i will please ask you to wait until the other is finished. issue of social security. in 18 years, the social security trust fund in debtor money and you will be 76. the committee for responsible budget estimate your benefits could be cut by as much as $7,500 per year. what would your administration

do to prevent this? mr. kaine: we will protect social security, one of the greatest programs the american government has ever done. it happened at a time when you worked your whole life raising he would, working, and retire into poverty. social security has enabled people to retire with dignity and not be in poverty. going and weep it will look for strategies like adjusting the payroll tax cap upward. here is what we will not do. i will make this plain. a will never, ever engage in risky scheme to privatize social security. donald trump wrote a book in such social security privatization would be good for all of us and when congressman pence was in congress, he was the chief cheerleader and even after president bush stopped pushing for it, congressman pence kept pushing for it.

we will look for ways to keep its sovereign going forward, focusing primarily. mr. pence: thank you. there they go again. we said we will meet our obligations to our seniors. obligations ofe medicare. that is what this campaign is really about. you have a voting record -- mr. pence: i did all of that. for the question you asked -- you will defend your own voting record. mr. pence: you are running with hillary clinton who wants to raise taxes by $1 trillion and increase spending by $2 trillion and you say you will keep the social security. donald trump and i will cut taxes. mr. kaine: you're going to raise

taxes on the middle class. stay on thef we path your party has us on, we will be in a mountain range of debt and we will face a hard choices -- mr. kaine: the debt explosion on the trump plane is much bigger than anything on the clinton plan. elaine: let me move on now. the issue of law-enforcement and race relations. after the dallas police shooting, police chief david brown said "we are asking police to do too much in this country. every societal failure, we put -- we put it off on the police themselves. funding." how would you specifically address the cheese concerns? mr. kaine: i think that's a very fair comment. i think we put a lot on police shoulders and this is something

i have a lot of experience on. i was a city councilman and mayor in richmond. over my timey hard and local office with our police department introduced our .omicide rate the moment i was governor of virginia, we worked hard also. we did something we really had to do. for the first time ever, we -- ked here's what i learned as a mayor and governor. the way you make community and issued build the bonds between the community and police. the bonds of understanding and then when people feel comfortable in their communities, that gap between the police and community narrows and when that gap narrows, it's safer for communities and the police. that still works across our country. there are some other models that don't work and are overly motto.ive militarily

donald trump said we need to do more stop and frisk around the country. that would be a mistake because it polarizes the relationship between the police and community. we will focus on community the package we work on with law-enforcement professionals and we will also fight gun violence in the united dates. i am a gun owner and a strong supporter.dment when i was governor of virginia, there was a horrible shooting at virginia tech and we learned through that situation that gaps in the background record check system should have been closed and could have prevented that crime. we will work to do things like close background record checks. was a those virginia tech whonian holocaust survivor

survived the holocaust and the soviet union takeover of his country and couldn't survive the scourge of gun violence. we will do things like background checks will make us safer. elaine: governor pence. mr. pence: my goal was a career cop on the beat in downtown chicago. he was my hero when i was growing up and we would grow up to visit and my three brothers and i would marvel at my uncle who would come out in his uniform, sidearm at his side. police officers are the best of us. , african,men, white latino, aging, hispanic, they put their lives on the line every day. at the risk of agreeing with you, community policing is a great idea. it has worked in the hoosier state and we support that. donald trump and i will make

sure law enforcement have the resources and the tools to be able to really restore law and order to the cities and communities in this nation. it's probably why the 330,000 members of police endorsed donald trump as the next president because they see his commitment to them, to law and order. but they also hear the badmouthing, the badmouthing that comes from people that sees to useagedy as a reason a broad brush to achieve his law-enforcement of implicit bias or institutional racism and that really has got to stop. when an african-american police , ander in charlotte all-star football player who went to liberty university came home, followed his father into law enforcement, joined the

force in charlotte in 2014, was involved in a police involved shooting that claimed the life of keith lamont scott, it was a tragedy. we grieve with those who grieve, we are saddened at the loss of life. but hillary clinton referred to that moment as an example of implicit bias in the police force. when she was asked in the debate and we could go whether there was implicit bias and law enforcement, her only answer was that there is implicit bias and everyone in the united states. what we ought to do is we ought to stop seizing on these moments of tragedy. we should assure the public that we will lead a complete and transparent investigation when there is a loss of life because of police action but enough of this seeking every opportunity to demean law-enforcement broadly in making the accusation of implicit bias. mr. kaine: people shouldn't be

afraid to bring up issues of bias and love was meant and if you are afraid -- mr. pence: if you -- i'm not afraid. mr. kaine: if you are afraid, you will never solve it. this is a heartbreaking example. castille was a valued worker in a local school and he was killed for no apparent reason. that incident will be investigated. but when folks investigated the .ituation, the kids loved him he had been stopped by police 40 or 50 times before that incident and if you look at sentencing in this country, african-americans and latinos get sentence for the same crimes at different rates. mr. pence: we need criminal justice reform.

indiana pass criminal justice reform. ableaine: we should not be to not bring it up and talk about bias in the system. mr. pence: african-american police officers involved in a police involved shooting, why would hillary clinton accused that african-american -- mr. kaine: i guess i can't believe you are defending the position that there is no buyers. elaine: i have a question on that point. recently spokett on the senate floor and said he was stopped seven times by law enforcement in one year. anger, "i have felt the the frustration, sadness, humiliation that comes with feeling like you are being targeted for nothing more than being yourself." what would you say to senator scott about his experience? mr. pence: i have the deepest respect for senator scott and he's a close friend. we needould say is that

to a. criminal justice reform nationally. we are very proud of our reform in indiana. i worked with congress on the second chance act. we have got to do a better job of recognizing and correcting the errors in the system that did reflect on institutional buyers and criminal -- and criminal just -- bias in criminal justice but what mr. kaine is saying let's not have the reflex on assuming the worst of men and women in law enforcement. we believe law-enforcement -- elaine: what would you say to senator scott, governor? mr. pence: law-enforcement is a force of good. they truly are people that put their lives on the line every day but i would suggest what we assert a stronger leadership at the national level to support law enforcement. you heard senator kaine project

to stop and frisk. i would suggest the families that live in our inner cities the siege by crime -- elaine: what would you tell senator scott? mr. kaine: i have heard senator scott make that eloquent plea and criminal justice is about respecting law and being respected by the law so there is a fundamental respect issue here and i just want to talk about the town. donald trump during his campaign has called mexicans rape is an criminals, called women slobs, pigs, dogs, discussing. attacked in indiana born federal judge and said he was unqualified to hear a federal lawsuit because his parents were mexican. he went after john mccain and said he wasn't a hero because he had been captured, said african-americans are living in -- he perpetrated this bigoted lie that president obama is not a u.s. citizen. this societyo have

where people are respected and respect laws, you cannot have someone at the top who demeans everyone he speaks about. i cannot believe governor pence would defend the insult driven campaign donald trump has driven. elaine: you're running mate tebow said undocumented immigrants that have committed violent crime should be deported. what would you tell the millions of undocumented immigrants that have not committed violent crimes? mr. pence: donald trump has a plan to end illegal immigration once and for all in this country. we have been talking into debt for 20 years. hillary clinton and tim kaine want to defend the policies of open borders, amnesty, catch and release, all the things that are driving wages down. and too often with criminal , donaldn the country

trump has a plan. systematically with illegal immigration beginning with border security. for the first time in the history of immigration and customs enforcement, their union actually endorse donald trump as the next president because they know we need him to enforce the laws of this country and he has laid out a plan to eliminate people will have overstayed their visas and once we have accomplished all of that, which will strengthen our economy and make our community safe, then we will deal with those that remain. wasve to tell you i listening to the avalanche of insults coming out of senator kaine. mr. kaine: these -- hold on a second. mr. pence: it's my time, senator. he said ours is an insult driven

campaign. did you hear that? ours is an insult driven campaign? donald trump. of donald trump said all those things, he wouldn't have a fraction of the insults hillary clinton had when she said half of our supporters were a basket of deplorables. she said they were irredeemable, they were not american. it was extraordinary. another laid one after on millions of americans who believe we can have a stronger america, who believe we can get this economy going again. campaign --driven that is small potatoes compared to hillary clinton probably half of donald trump supporters a basket of deplorables. mr. kaine: the next day she said i shouldn't have said that.

look for donald trump apologizing to john mccain for saying he wasn't a hero, for calling women slobs, pigs, disgusting. would donald trump apologize for taking after somebody in the twitter world, forcing african-americans were living in hell? for saying president obama was not a citizen of the united states? you will look in they just see donald trump ever taking responsibility for anybody and apologizing. immigration. there are two plans on the table. hillary and i believe in comprehensive immigration reform. donald trump believes in mass deportation. we want a bipartisan reform that will put keeping families together as the top will and that will help focus enforcement efforts on those who are violent

and that will do more border and seek out a path to citizenship for those who follow the rules. that is our proposal. donald trump proposes to do port 16 million people, 11 million or here without documents and donald trump and mike pence want to get rid of birthright citizenship so if you are born here but your parents don't have documents, that's another 4.5 million people. house,nt to go house to school to school, business-to-business and kick out 16 million people and i cannot believe that governor pence would sit here and defend his running mate's claim that we should create a deportation. a deportationhave first, it's called immigrations enforcement for best enforcement. they endorsed donald trump to be the next president.

that's nonsense. they hadjust heard is a plan for open borders, amnesty. they call it comprehensive immigration reform on capitol hill. we all know the routine. it's amnesty. the last thing mention is border security. that is how washington always plays it. elaine: governor, mr. trump has a said -- mr. pence: donald trump is committed to restoring the borders of this nation. elaine: governor, out of these millions -- how would these millions of immigrants leave? mr. pence: donald trump has laid out a list of priorities that doesn't end with border security, it begins with border security and after we secure the be on, the focus has to criminal aliens. we just had a conversation about

law enforcement, about the violence in our cities. the reality is that there is heartbreak and tragedy that has struck american families because people that came into this nowtry illegally and are involved in criminal enterprise and activity and we don't have the resources or the will to deport them systematically. donald trump said we will move those people out, people overstayed their visa's and we will strengthen immigration and customs enforcement with more resources. and donald trump has made it clear once we have done all of those things, we are going to reform the immigration system. that's the order you should do it. border security, removing criminal aliens, upholding the law, and then senator i will work with you when you go back to the senate, we will work with you to reform immigration.

mr. kaine: i look forward to working together in whatever capacities we serve them but i want to make it clear he's trying to fudge up what donald trump said. he looked the audience in the eye and said we are building the wall and deporting everybody. he said "they will all be gone." you can go to the tape and see what donald trump has said. it, we are a nation of immigrants. my sons and i are descendents from immigrant families. well by observing immigrants and it has made our nation stronger. donald trump says mexicans are saysts, what donald trump about a hoosier judge that he was unqualified to hear a case because his parents were mexican, i cannot imagine how you can defend him. elaine: i would like to shift to

the threat of terrorism. do you think the world today is safer or more dangerous than it was eight years ago? as the terror threat increased or decreased? mr. kaine: the terror threat has decreased in some ways because bin laden is dead and increase in some ways because -- decrease in some ways because of the iranian nuclear deal. the terror threat to the troops have decrease in some ways because they're not 175 thousand, only 15,000. there are other parts of the world that are challenging. only terrorism, there's one candidate that can do it and it's hillary clinton. -- to beat terrorism, there's only one candidate that can do it and it's hillary clinton. we need to beat terrorism and she has a plan to do it. she was part of a national security team that wiped out bin laden. here is her plan. we have to take out their

leaders on the battlefield. she will lead the team that will di, weat daddy -- bagdha had a crisis. allieshave to work with to share and search intelligence. she has the experience to do it. donald trump cannot start a twitter war with miss universe without shooting himself in the foot. he doesn't have a plan. he said he has a secret plan and then said he knows more than the generals about isis and i will call the generals to help me figure out a plan and finally he said i will fire the generals. he doesn't have a plan but he does have dangerous ideas. the trash talks the military. he wants to tear up alliances. nato is obsolete and they will

only work together to pay israel as they pay. dictators -- he loves dictators. and last and most dangerously, donald trump believes that the world will be safer if more nations have nuclear weapons. he said saudi arabia should get them, japan should get them, korea should get them. when he was confronted with this can get terrorists those, donald trump said "go ahead, folks, enjoy ourselves.: i would love governor pence to tell me what is so enjoyable about nuclear war. mr. pence: did you work on that when a long time? mr. kaine: see if you can defend any of them. after traveling millions of miles, being the

architect of the foreign policy of this administration, america is less safe today than it was the day barack obama became president. we have weakened america's place in the world. it has been a combination of factors but mostly a lack of leadership. onas in washington, d.c. 9/11 and i saw the clouds of smoke rise from the pentagon. mr. kaine: i was in virginia with the pentagon. mr. pence: it was heartbreaking. i will give this president credit for bringing osama bin laden to justice. the truth is osama bin laden led al qaeda. the primary threat today is isis and because hillary clinton a way thatenegotiate would have allowed some american combat troops to remain in iraq and security hard-fought gains , isis wasd won

able to be conjured up out of the desert and has overrun vast areas the americans had won. ofheart breaks for the life a corporal who fought hard to some of the most difficult days in operation iraqi freedom and paid the ultimate sacrifice to defend our freedom to secure that nation and that nation was secured in 2009 but because hillary clinton and barack obama failed to provide a status war innt, we are back at his mother would always come to memorial day events and i would always give her a hug and said we would never forget her son. the americans

soldiers made were squandered in iraq because of this administration. in reference to the iranian deal, the irani and deal hillary clinton initiated, $150 billion -- mr. kaine: without firing a shot. mr. pence: you didn't stop the nuclear program. mr. kaine: yes we did. mr. pence: there is no limitations once the time of the treaty comes off. elaine: mr. trump has proposed extreme vetting from immigrants of parts of the world that support terrorism but that does not address many recent terror as the in the u.s. such orlando nightclub massacre and the recent bombings in new york and new jersey. those were homegrown committed by u.s. citizens and legal residents. what specific tools would you use to prevent those kinds of attacks? i think it's a great question, elaine. it really does begin with us

reforming our immigration system and putting the interest in the safety and security of the american people for us donald trump has called for extreme vetting for people coming into this country so we don't bring people to the united states who are hostile to our bill of rights freedom. also, donald trump and i are committed to suspending the syrian refugee program and programs of immigration in areas of the world that have been compromised by terrorism. hillary clinton wants to increase the syrian refugee program. elaine: we're talking about homegrown terrorism. we pence: let's make sure are putting the safety and security of american people first instead of hillary clinton expanding. thekaine: for violating constitution by blocking people based on a national origin rather than whether they are dangerous. mr. pence: that is false. mr. kaine: we have different

views on refugee issues and on immigration. hillary and i want to do enforcement based on our people dangerous. these guys say all mexicans are bad and with respect to refugees, we want to keep people out if they are dangerous. donald trump said keep them out of their muslim. mike pence put a program in place to keep out folks from syria and yesterday on a panel, three republican judges struck down the mike pence plan and said it -- thosence: to your point, judges said it was because there wasn't any evidence yet that isis had infiltrated the u.s. but germany just arrested three syrian refugees. mr. kaine: they told you there is a right way and wrong way to do it. tell you afterll two syrian refugees were involved in the attack in paris the paris 9/11, i

have no higher priority than the safety and security of the people of my state. mr. kaine: but governor pence -- mr. pence: i stand by that decision. and with donald trump as president, we will put the safety and security of americans first. do kaine: hillary and i will security enforcement and will not do it based on discriminating you from the country you come from or the religion you have. the director of the fbi said we cannot know for certain who these people are coming from syria. and if we don't let them -- mr. kaine: if we don't know, we don't let them in. mr. pence: homeland security said we cannot know for certain. you have to air on the side security and safety for the american people. elaine: what exactly would an

intelligent surge look like and how would that help identify terrorists with no operational connection to a terrorist organization? is two things. it is first dramatically expanding our intelligence capacities by hiring great professionals and we have some of the best intel on cyber employees in the world in the u.s. working for our private sector companies so it involves striking great partnerships with some of our cyber intel experts in the private sector so we can gather more intelligence. is second piece of this really important. it means creating stronger alliances. andgather intelligence share your intelligence back and forth with your allies and that is how you find out who may be trying to recruit income from one country to the next. alliances are critical. that is why donald trump's claim

that nato is obsolete and we need to get rid of nato is so dangerous. he said nato is obsolete. your alliances, -- hillary clinton brought the sanctions regime around the world that stop the iranian nuclear weapons program and that is what intelligence means, better skills. elaine: i would like to turn out to the tragedy in syria. mr. pence: can i speak about the cyber security search? elaine: you have 30 seconds, quickly. mr. pence: donald trump just spoke about this issue. we have got to bring together the best research in this country to understand that cyber the asymmetrical enemy we face in this country and i look forward to working with you in the senate to make sure we researched that.

i will tell you it's important in this moment to remember hillary clinton had a private server in her home that had classified information about drone strikes, e-mails from the president of the united states of america. her private server was subject to being have to -- ask aboutlike to syria. mr. kaine: the investigation concluded that not one reasonable prosecutor will take any additional steps. you don't get to decide the rights and wrongs of this. we have a justice system that does that and a republican fbi director did an investigation. elaine: we are moving on now. mr. pence: if your son or my son revealed classified information like she did -- mr. kaine: that is absolutely false. elaine: gentlemen, please. mr. kaine: they concluded there was no reasonable prosecutor. elaine: please.

to turn now to syria. 250,000 people, 150,000 of them children are under siege and aleppo. and cindy are you weapons are russianopped on them by military. does the u.s. have a responsibility to protect civilians and prevent mass casualties on this scale? governor pence. mr. pence: the united states of america needs to begin to exercise strong leadership to protect citizens and over 100,000 children and aleppo. hillary clinton's top priority when she became secretary of state was the russian reset. after the russian reset, the russians invaded ukraine. the small bullying lead of russia is dictating terms to the u.s.

the greatest that we withdraw from talks while vladimir put -- flood of your putin put missiles in syria. we will lean into this with broad shouldered american leadership. it begins with rebuilding the military. the russians and chinese have been making and norma's investment in the military. we have the smallest navy since 1916, the lowest number of troops since the end of world war ii. we have to work with congress, and donald trump will, to rebuild the military. syria, i trulyd believe that what americans want to do is immediately establish safe zones so families with children can move out of those areas, work with our partners right now to make that happen.

secondly, i have to tell you, the provocations by russia need to be met with american strength. if russia chooses to be involved in continue to be involved this barbaric attack on civilians in aleppo, the u.s. should be prepared to use military force to strike military forces of the assad regime to prevent them from this humanitarian crisis taking place in aleppo. there is a broad range of other things we ought to do. we should deploy a missile defense shield to the czech whichic and poland, clinton and obama pulled back on, not wanting to offend the russians, we have to have american strength of the world stage. when donald trump's president, the russians and other countries will know they are dealing with a strong president. inator kaine: hillary and agreed that the establishment of humanitarian efforts in syria

with human a consistent with un security council resolutions would be a good idea. hillary has the ability to stand .p to russia donald trump, again and again, praised vladimir putin and it is clear he has business dealings with russian oligarchs. the trump campaign manager team had to be fired a month ago because of shadowy connections with pro-putin forces. said, inpence arguably, vladimir putin is a better leader than president obama. glad amir putin ran his economy ran hismir putin economy into the ground. if you don't know the difference between dictatorship and leadership, go back to fifth grade civics. governor pence just said donald trump will reload the military. no, we won't.

donald trump is avoiding taxes. the new york times story, it probably didn't pay taxes for 18 years starting in 1995. those ears included the years of 9/11. get this. on 9/11, hillary clinton and donald trump's hometown was attacked. young men and women, young men and women signed up to serve in the military to fight terrorism. hillary clinton went to washington to get funds to rebuild her city and protect first responders. donald trump was fighting a different fight. it was a fight to avoid paying taxes so he wouldn't support the fight against terror, he wouldn't support troops. this is important, elaine. when a guy running for president won't support the troops, won't support veterans, won't support teachers, that is important. i said about aleppo, we have to

create a humanitarian zone in northern syria. governor pence, you mentioned no-fly zones. where would you propose setting up a safe zone? how would you keep it safe? governor pence: donald trump supports our troops. he supports our veterans. senator kaine: he won't pay taxes. governor pence: do you not take elaine: this is about syria -- governor pence: honestly, this -- senator kaine: how could you -- governor pence: i understand you want to change the subject. on this russian thing -- elaine: senator, i want to -- governor pence: there is an old proverb that says the russian bear never dies, it just hibernates. the week foreign policy of hillary clinton and barack obama awakened and aggression in russia that appeared a few years ago in

georgia. now, their move into crimea and the wider middle east and all the while, all we do is fold our arms and say we are not having talks anymore. we need american strength. to marshal the resources of our allies in the region. and we need to act and act now to get people out of harms way. elaine: exactly how would the safe zones remain safe? governor pence: they would have to be, as the senator said, there was a framework that has been recognized by the international community. the u.s. needs to be prepared to work with allies in the region for safe a route passage, then protect people in those areas, including with a no-fly zone. this is tough stuff. i was on the foreign affairs committee for a decade. i traveled in a note of the region for 10 years. i saw what the american soldier operation iraqi freedom,

and to see the weekend hapless leadership that hillary clinton was architect of in the foreign policy of the obama -- senator kaine: let me talk about -- governor pence: that is -- senator kaine: he doesn't want to knowledge that we stopped the irani and nuclear weapons program. hillary was part of the team that got bin laden. ignoren't want to knowledge that we are down from 175,000 troops deployed overseas to 15,000. let me tell you. donald trump's idea that more nations should get idea -- nuclear weapons. ronald reagan said something interesting about nuclear proliferation in the 1980's. he said the problem with nuclear proliferation is that some fool or maniac could trigger a catastrophic event. i think that is governor pence's running mate. governor pence: senator. that was even beneath you and

hillary clinton. that is pretty low. senator kaine: do you think we should have more nuclear weapons in the world? would that make us safe? governor pence: senator, ronald reagan also said nuclear war should never be fought because it can never be one -- it can never be wo we need to moderaten. -- modernize our nuclear -- let me go back to this iran thing. , thatps saying that they hillary clinton, who started the deal with the irani and, prevented iran from getting a nuclear weapon -- senator kaine: that is what the joint chiefs of staff is saying -- governor pence: that is not what israel says. i know you boycotted prime minister netanyahu's speech. senator kaine: i visited -- governor pence: you boycotted the speech. what the so-called iran deal is, is essentially guarantee, when i

was in congress, i thought hard on a bipartisan basis with republican and democrat members the toughestrd sanctions. literally, in the history of the u.s.. we were bringing them to heal. but the goal was that we would only lift sanctions if iran permanently renounced their nuclear -- senator kaine: elaine -- governor pence: let me finish. they have not renounced nuclear ambitions. runs out,eals period there is no limit am obtaining weapons. elaine: we need to talk about russia very quickly. said sixaine: i have times, i don't understand how you can defend your running mate on these issues. on all six cases, he refused to defend his running mate -- governor pence: don't put words into my mouth -- senator kaine: and yet, he is asking everyone to vote for someone he cannot defend.

i think that should -- russia.let's talk about i will give you an opportunity to -- governor pence: -- one at a time -- senator kaine: he is absolutely -- governor pence: he never said that. blatt: russian president amir putin has -- vladimir putin has provided support to the syrian regime. what would you counter the actions? senator kaine: let's start by as araising vladimir putin great leader. donald trump and mike pence said he is a great leader. no, he -- nce: senator kaine: hillary clinton gone toe to tell with russia. stated so as secretary of . she wanted to reduce russia's nuclear stockpile.

she had the experience doing it. we have done the same thing with ukraine, but more than watching we are punishing sanctions on russia that we need to continue. donald trump didn't know that russia had invaded crimea. governor pence: that's not -- senator kaine: he said, i will will not goussia into the ukraine. they went into crimea two years ago. hillary clinton went toe to toe with russia. she got them engaged in a iran'sful way to cap nuclear weapons program, yet she stood up with them on issues like syria and their invasion of georgia. you have to have the ability to do that, and hillary does. on the other hand, in donald trump you have someone who praises flat amir putin all the time. blatt amir putin all the time. donald trump had a campaign

manager with ties to putin. he had to get fired. trump sitshen donald down with putin, will it be america's bottom line or trump's bottom line he will be worried about? this would be solved if trump would release his tax returns. i know he is laughing at this. what does that -- governor pence: what does that have to do with russia? senator kaine: the only way the american public will see if -- governor pence: he never said -- elaine: senator, governor. governor pence: just trying to keep up with the insult-driven campaign on the other side of the table. senator kaine: i am saying facts about your running mate. elaine: senator, governor -- governor pence: don't put words in my mouth. i am happy to defend him. most of what you said is false. senator kaine: i will run

through the list of -- elaine: senator -- governor pence: this is the alternative universe of washington, d.c. versus reality. hillary clinton's letter number withriority was a reset russia. that resulted in the invasion of ukraine after russian soldiers dressed up like ukrainian dissidents, then they moved into crimea. donald trump knew that happened. he was saying, it won't happen again. the truth is, what you have in the rise of aggressive russia, an increase in influence in iran that now, because of the deal, is on a pathway in the future to -- the leadinge state-sponsored terror in the world in a ron has a closer relationship with russia because

of hillary clinton and barack obama's -- foreign policy. sanctions being lifted. then, syria. it is extraordinary. syria is imploding. you asked a very thoughtful question about the disaster in aleppo. isis is headquartered in raqqa. they have a overrun vast areas that have sacrificed american soldiers in operation iraqi freedom, yet senator kaine is a loyal soldier. i get that paint -- i get that, really, it is astonishing. on the day iran released four american -- senator kaine: -- nuclear weapons -- governor pence: -- $400 million in cash as a ransom payment -- quote, mr. trump said,

putin has no respect for hillary clinton or obama. why do you think he will respect your administration? governor pence: strength. plain and simple. donald trump -- senator kaine: donald trump's son -- we will pence: -- rebuild our military. the whole putin thing, america is stronger than russia. our economy is 16 times larger than the russian economy. the political system here is superior to the crony, corrupt capitalist system in russia in every way. when donald trump and i observed syria, iran, and ukraine, the small and bullying leader on russia is stronger on the world stage than this administration, that is stating painful facts. that is not an endorsement of putin, that is an enticement of

the week leadership of hillary clinton and barack obama. senator kaine: governor pence said in arguably, vladimir putin is a better leader than president obama -- governor pence: that is absolutely inaccurate. senator kaine: i just think that a guy that -- not -- governor pence: on the world stage -- --ator kaine: if you make mistake leadership for dictatorship, a country that is running its economy into the ground, if you can't tell the difference, you shouldn't be commander-in-chief. donald trump's suns say they have all these business dealings with russia. though could -- those could be disclosed with tax returns, but they won't do them. we need to worry whether donald trump will watch out for america's bottom line or his own. wente: senator kaine, what wrong with the russia reset? senator kaine: vladimir putin.

he is a dictator. vladimir putin is a dictator. he is not a leader. anyone who thinks otherwise or putin.ow history hillary clinton knows who this guy is. john mccain said, i look in his eyes and i see kgb. how do you deal with that? we have to deal with russia in a lot of ways. there are areas where we can cooperate. hillary clinton worked with russia on the treaty to reduce their nuclear weapon stockpile. hillary clinton worked with russia to get them engaged in a community of nations to stop the irani and nuclear weapons program. she is not praising putin as a great guy. she knows how to set up a table and negotiate tough deals. ofs is a challenging part the world and we should have a commander-in-chief prepared, rather than someone who praises putin is a great leader. iran, andrth korea,

the threat of nuclear weapons. north korea recently conducted its fifth and most powerful nuclear test. what specific steps would you take to prevent north korea from developing a nuclear armed missile capable of reaching the u.s.? governor? governor pence: first, we need to make a commitment to rebuild our military, including modernizing our nuclear forces. we also need an effective american diplomacy that will the resources of nations in the asia-pacific rim to put pressure on north korea, jonim jong-il and, -- kim v -- plain and simple, when donald trump's president, we are not going to have the kind of posture in the world that has russia invading crimea and ukraine, that has the

chinese building new islands in the south china sea, that has north korea floating american power. we will go back to the days of peace and strength. i have to tell you, all the talk about tax returns, i get it. you want to bring it up. clinton and her husband set up a private foundation called the clinton foundation. while she was secretary of state, the clinton foundation accepted tens of millions of dollars from foreign governments , and foreign donors. now, you need to know out there, this is basic stuff. foreign donors and foreign governments cannot participate in the american political process. they cannot make financial contributions. the clintons figured out a way to greet a foundation where foreign governments and foreign donors could donate millions of

dollars, and then we found, thanks to the work of the associated press, more than half of her private e-mails were when you talkr -- about these baseless rumors about russia and the rest, hillary clinton, you asked the trustworthy question. they are looking at the pay to play politics hillary operated with the clinton foundation through prior -- elaine: dr. governor -- on the kaine: foundation, im glad to talk about the foundation. the clinton foundation is one of the highest rated charities in the world. it provides aids drugs to millions of people. it helps americans deal with opioid overdoses. it ranks higher as a charity than the american red cross. the clinton foundation does lots of good work.

hillary clinton took no action to benefit the foundation as secretary of state. the state department did an investigation and concluded everything clinton did i secretary of state was completely in the interests of the united states. so the foundation does good work, and hillary clinton acted in the interests of the united states. let's compare this with the trump organization is an octopus -like organization with tentacles all over the world, whose conflict of interest could only be known if donald trump would release his tax returns. he has refused. sons said the organizations have lots of business dealings in russia. the trump organization is not a nonprofit. it is putting money into donald and hispockets children. the clinton foundation is a nonprofit and no clinton family in addition,any -- donald trump has a foundation.

legallyust fine for a contributing foundation, to a political campaign, if you -- they made an illegal contribution and tried to disguise it as something else. the person they donated to as someone whose office was charged with investigating trump university. this is the difference between a foundation that does good work and the secretary of state who acted in accordance with someone interests, and who is conflicted and won't share with the american public what he is doing and what the conflicts are. elaine: governor, you have 30 seconds. this is about north korea, i will remind you both. [laughter] thank you.nce: the trump fan -- foundation is a family foundation. they give virtually every cent to charitable causes. $.10 on the dollar in the clinton foundation went to charity. senator kaine: a $20,000 portrait of donald trump --

governor pence: less than $.10 on the dollar in the clinton foundation went to charity. it is a platform for the clintons to travel the world, to have staff. but honestly, we would know more about it if hillary would just turn over the 33,000 e-mails -- elaine: let's turn back to north korea. senator kaine, if you had intelligence that north korea was about to launch a missile, a nuclear armed missile capable of reaching the united states, would you take preemptive actions? senator kaine: a president should take action to defend the united states. the president has to do that. what action what -- would depend on the intelligence, how certain you are of the intelligence. but you would have to take action. you asked how do we deal with north korea. i am on the foreign relations committee. we just did a sanctions package

against north korea. the u.n. followed and did virtually the same package. sometimes vetoes packages like this. they are getting worried about north korea. so they actually supported the sanctions package, although many of the sanctions are against chinese firms, chinese financial institutions. we are working with china, and we need to. china is another one of those relationships where it is competitive, and challenging, and in times like north korea, we have to be able to cooperate. hillary understands that. she once went to china and stood at a human rights meeting and said,hem in the eye and human rights are women's rights. they didn't want her to say that. she also worked on a lot of and important diplomatic deals with china, and that is what it will take. what i would worry about is the donald trump owes about 650 milk ,- $650 million to banks including the bank of china. i don't think he would stand up

to the people to loan him money. elaine: i would like to focus on social issues. you have both been open about the role that faith has played in your lives. a time discuss in detail when you struggled to balance your personal faith and the public policy? senator. senator kaine: that is an easy one for me. i am fortunate. i grew up in a wonderful household with great irish catholic parents. my mom and data right here. inas educated by jesse with i worked- jesuits. with missionaries in honduras, and they were the heroes of my life. religionpractice my and a devout way and follow the teachings of my church and my personal life, but i don't believe in this nation of first amendment nations where we don't over another,gion the doctrines -- for me, the

hardest struggle in my faith life was the catholic church is against the death penalty and selenite. but i was governor of a state, and the state law said there was a death penalty for crimes that i wasighness -- heinous. attacked pretty strongly because of my pigot -- position on the death penalty. this is my religion. i will not change my religious practice. but i know how to take an oath and uphold the law. elected, and i did. it was difficult to allow executions to go forward, but in circumstances where i didn't feel like there was a case for clemency, i told virginia voters i would uphold the law, and i did. that was a struggle. i think it is important that those of us who have deep faith don't feel like we can just

substitute our own views for everybody else's in society, regardless of their views. elaine: governor pence. governor pence: a wonderful question. my christian faith is at the heart of who i am. i was also raised in a wonderful family of faith. it was a church on sunday morning, grace before dinner. my christian faith became real for me when i made a personal decision for christ as a freshman in college. live that out, however imperfectly, every day of my life. with my wife at my side, we followed a calling into public service where we have tried to keep faith with the values that we cherish. struggle,d to when i i appreciate, and i have a great deal of respect for senator kaine's sincere faith. senator kaine: that is shared. governor pence: for me, the

sanctity of life proceeds out of the belief that ancient principle, where god says, before you were formed in the womb, i knew you. i have sought to stand with great compassion for the sanctity of life. indiana has sought to make sure that we expand alternatives in health care counseling for women , non-abortion alternatives. to becomingr way the most pro-adoption state in america. if you will be pro-life, you should be pro-adoption. with hillary clinton, i can't understand, and now senator kaine, to support a practice like partial-birth abortion, and senator kaine, you personally,e views but the idea that a child that

is almost born into the world could still have their life ephema to them is an me. i know you have historically opposed taxpayer funding of abortion, but hillary clinton wants to repeal the long-standing provision in the longer we said we wouldn't use taxpayer dollars to fund abortions. informs myfaith life. i try to spend time on my knees every day. but it begins with cherishing the dignity, the worth, the value of every human life. senator kaine: this is a fundamental question. a fundamental question. hillary and i are both people from religious backgrounds. experience was very formative for her. but we really feel like you should live fully, and with commands of your

faith. but it is not the role of a public servant to mandate that for everyone else. let's talk about abortion and choice. .e support roe versus wade we support the constitutional right of american women to consult their own conscience, their own supportive partner, their own minister, and make their own decision about pregnancy. that is something we trust american women to do. we don't think that women should be punished, as donald trump said they should, for making the decision to have an abortion. governor pence wants to repeal roe versus wade. he said it should be on the ash heap of history. there are young people in the audience who weren't born when this case was decided. before roe versus wade, states could pass criminal laws to punish women if they made the choice to terminate a pregnancy. i think you should live your moral values, but the last thing, the very last thing that

the government should do is have laws that would punish women who make reproductive choices. that is the fundamental difference between a clinton -kaine ticket and a trump ticket. governor pence: donald trump and i would never support legislation that punished women who made the heartbreaking choice to end a pregnancy. senator kaine: why did donald trump say that? look.or pence: he is not a polished politician like you and hillary clinton. senator kaine: that is not a polished -- governor pence: the administration -- senator kaine: the promise of the heart, the mouth speaks. womenonald trump says should be punished and mexicans are rapists, he is showing you who he is. governor pence: you whipped out the mexican thing again. senator kaine: can you defend it? governor pence: there are

criminal aliens who come into this country illegally, who are perpetrating violence and -- senator kaine: do you want to -- governor pence: gov. pence: i could not be more proud to stand with donald trump who stands for the right of life. and i am gentle with this because i do respect you. i have appreciated the fact that you have supported the amendment that bans the use of taxpayer funding for abortion, but that is not hillary clinton's view. we can come together as a nation, we can create a culture of life. more and more young people are we knowg life because we are better for it. like mother teresa said at that