from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. the sole vice presidential debate took place last night. with only 33 days until the election, governor mike pence and senator tim kaine argued ositions.didates' p the consensus was governor pence performed better but failed to defend donald trump. , the author of

theacity to her co--- -- author of "audacity." what did that debate tell us about those two men? on the republican side, just about every republican i know said it was a reminder if you have a normal, professional republican politician on the stage prosecuting conservative arguments, who knows what he is talking about, calm and understated, we would be winning the election. most of the arguments he made on a range of issues, are not donald trump's positions. he is disconnected from what is going on at the top of the sick it -- ticket.

when you actually have someone normal up there, whether you agree with him, he can actually win the argument. last night, i don't think it has much of a difference on the outcome of the election. i do think in the near term, pence won. fellow analysts have opposite views. pence was thed, clear loser because the videotape refutes. he has given donald trump something we would like an life. a second chance. because he had a little bit of a momentum shift, the truck tents pence ticket got off the mat a little bit. it has given a chance for donald trump to maybe learn a thing or

two from pence. the other thing i know republicans have been saying today, because i have been hearing it so much, we wish pence were doing the debate prep for trump. see some ofp would what worked and take it as his own. >> i have seen a lot of conservatives excited that hence was prosecuting the case against obama. tim kaine was not defending clinton. was defending the fact is, barack obama is a popular president. there is a defense that is persuasive to most americans who elected him twice and still approve of him. it is just not what tim kaine was there to do. the perception is, by a number of people other than dan

nor, the cnn poll and other places, pence did better than tim kaine. who it benefits is another question. you don't share that view? are right, as a performer, he is a trained talk show host and he has a nice baritone. he is more of a smooth television performer. i think he told that stuff off more effectively. kaine wasn't really rebutting a lot of the arguments because he was there to make different points. charlie: on a moment of performance, is it bad to beat tactics to interrupt too much ? ce didtried to do what pen in 2012.yan

ne can't pull it off. biden can pull it off graciously. there was something awkward did it toway kaine the point of being annoying. it wasn't annoying in 2012. trust me, i was frustrated but i annoying in a way i did not find biden. >> here is another way it didn't work. forve known senator kaine decades. he was my mayor in richmond, my governor. now he is my senator. for so many people, who were watching last night, the ratings were off from four years ago. still, millions of people watching. tens of millions. senator cain was totally new to them. it is tough to have that person

be introduced to you and be doing all that interrupting. he had been prepped to be tough and aggressive. to let nothing go. when you are trying to shake hands and meet the audience, that is really tough. n and dan talk about the style points. mind was getting a job on fox after this election. saying maybe got, to get aazy for pence job on fox. looking ahead to 2020. he helped himself. by, as jonne scored has written, compiling a lot of material that now the and campaign can use against the

ticket.nce , he was o'donnell said going to take a lot of clips of had never saidp anything and put it up against trump and pence saying it. the clinton campaign be done to it by a day. the clinton campaign, now up in -- it is fixed very devastating. i think that is effective what they did. the video showing all the things pence tonight about trump when in fact he had said them. i don't know how many people will actually see it. not nearly as many watched the debate. first impressions matter and pence came off better than kaine . he did other things for trump. people are apprehensive of trump.

not just rejecting, but apprehensive. pence sent a message, i am exhibit a of the kind of people he will surround himself with. i can give you reassurance. charlie: it was mike pence. there is some confidence he will choose people who are all a fight. dan: if conservatives are concerned, mike pence is an authentic movement conservative. denying trump statements the way jonathan writes about, i don't think that will be a huge problem in the short term. i think it will any long-term. -- in the long-term. it was pretty indisputable. pence was quoting donald trump. saying, donald trump did not say those things. it wasn't even gray area. it was black and white. over time, it did chip away at pence's credibility. >> quick on that point.

who gave annt biden interview on cnn, talking about how governor pence had to constantly defend donald trump, and vice president biden said, hell of a way to make a living. charlie: what you think president obama thinks about this? is he anxious to get into the debate because his legacy may be at stake? >> he clearly realizes his legacy is at stake for a number of issues. take the paris climate accord. climate change a denier. wants to build as many coal plants as he can and says he will will out of the agreement as soon as he takes office. would cause the thing to collapse. that is probably president obama's biggest legacy.

on this and many other things, he is very aware he needs a hillary clinton to win to safeguard the policies he has put into place. charlie: is he girding for action? anxious to get into the fray? wayshan: i thought in some he was. it was interesting to watch his speech in the convention. he was almost breaking up. he almost couldn't help but laugh at the idea of trump as president. those who have that job have that reaction. he is amused and offended and kind of alarmed. very something that is near to him. he would like to mix it up. ♪

do the three of you disagree with what one person said? the superstar political talent of this season is michelle obama. >> we saw that at the convention. we have seen her out on the trail. a reluctant public face during much of this administration, but she has been doing so fantastically. in thee united importance of going out to

prosecute the case against trump, they are enjoying it. clearly the president is. , he enjoys thing showing secretary clinton how it is done. loves taking it to him. a congressman told me he was in the limo with president obama. president obama was repeating to him some of his best lines from ousewhite h correspondents dinner when he got trump. i think he is enjoying this. >> when i watched the democratic debate, excuse me, the convention. each of these people speaking. joe biden, elizabeth warren. any of them. i disagree with them, but anyone of them would have been beating trump by 10-15 points.

the contrast between michelle obama and hillary clinton, a retail political skills and oratory skills, is day and night. i think had she not denied so vehemently any interest, everybody would have been recruiting her. .> i absolutely agree it is all the more remarkable she is not a politician. spent her life giving these kinds of speeches. she has public speaking experience, but this is not her field. and yet she is so incredibly effective. charlie: she was even reluctant about him eating into it after he lost the congressional race. let's look ahead to sunday night. what does donald trump have to do in this debate? four is it too late? -- or is it too late? mike: it is not too late. format could play strengths.rump's

his team says they are happy to have regular people asking the questions as opposed to a moderator. he did well in the townhall format in the republican primaries. but, and the reason dan can certify this, the republicans are so worried about this debate and are not particularly bullish about the fact we are going to have a totally new trump on sunday night, they are worried about him overreacting. the as he took the bait, fact that he kept taking the clinton, secretary people close to him are worried about him doing that with the questioners in st. louis. coming off as too hot. dan: i think people around him are trying to get him to prepare like mike pence did. whatof us all say, at

point will donald trump truly change? when will the exhibit actually,? -- actually come? we are five weeks out. minus someaigned, small interruptions, he has campaigned the same way for this election. it is how he has operated in public life for the past four decades. the fact that he is going to suddenly change, given how easily his buttons are pushed, and i don't necessarily think a townhall is a better format for him. it is an awkward situation. it is among the most difficult kind of formats to prepare for. you don't know who to look at, who to respond to. the questions can come out of left field. with regular journalists, you what thect with -- questions are going to be.

he has campaigned one way. he has not changed. the format has all sorts of variables he could not truly prepare for. charlie: hillary clinton has said, there is no new donald trump. mike: a great quote, if there is one guy who is not changing, it is a 70-year-old leaner. -- billionaire. he thinks this has worked for him. said, mike, don't forget, there is a difference between prep sessions and prep occurring. they are having sessions. that doesn't mean donald trump is internalizing it or changing his approach to life in this interim. onathatn: can i make a point?

i have seen so many republicans talk about donald trump's inabilities to do basic preparation for the debate. as if it is a problem for the campaign as opposed to the presidency. a lack of attention span, interest in acts. refusing to take this job seriously. should beicans concluding, this man should not be president, not throwing the republican to thinking he should be president. a personink the way runs for president is often a window, how they deal with surprises and manage it, very much a simulation for being president read not a perfect simulation. charlie: what did that say about romney? dan: i think he would have been a good president. he wasn't donald trump.

2012, he was a vulnerable candidate. he was as fullre as people think. he has a massive demographic advantage. the perception was the economy was starting to come back. incumbents rarely get thrown out of office. a betterbama ran campaign. i think romney ran a good campaign. ison't think donald trump running a good campaign or could be president. we are being constantly reminded of this. mike: to agree with his point, the washington post did a fantastic biography book in august. the most interesting sentence, the authors mark fisher, they went to see trump in trump tower read one of the most fascinating things he told them, as this process moved along, he was

thinking about reading a book about a president. but didn't have time. charlie: there's also the announcement al gore will be campaigning for hillary clinton on issues like climate. been the understated issue of the campaign. i don't think any of the moderators have brought it up. you didn't come up in the presidential debates. it is probably the most import ant issue of the cycle. president obama called it a national security issue. >> you don't have words to express how important climate change is in maintaining and continuing to progress of the paris climate agreement. it has been frustratingly absent. it is a problem in the republican party which will not

engage on this issue whatsoever. it is also a problem of the news media which will not present the issue before the voters anyway deserves. with jonathane about the issue, but as a political matter, i think the reason you have al gore coming out. the reason hillary clinton brought it up is because they are trying to moderate -- motivate certain parts of the obama coalition. millennials, climate change is an issue. if they don't beat trump, by they are notrs, going to win the election. that is the most important part of gore coming out. charlie: about the second , not iti meant to say is too late now for him. but if in fact this debate is the last best chance for him, donald trump, to change the momentum of this ring.

-- this thing. his road is much harder if he fails to make a difference? mike: that is exactly so. there is one thing he needs to do in that is what i told you he needed to do in the first debate. he needs to come off as a plausible commander-in-chief. he has to pass the commander-in-chief test. , you ask people for one word to describe the candidates. they talk about hillary clinton. it is all very critical words. undecided voters get to trump, they are equally critical. but they want change. this is a change environment, for all the reasons dan said. a conventional republican would be in such good shape. donald trump came across as someone who could be

commander-in-chief, that you could trust, there is a potential, tremendous potential for him to have a higher ceiling. thear, he has been in 38-42% band, and he will not cannot beof it if he imagined in the oval office. charlie: the have prevented him from making the change argument. electionrs in a change are very tolerant of imperfections if that candidate is a change candidate. they will tolerate a lot. running against hillary clinton, they would tolerate a lot of the republican nominee. i think trump is a bridge too far. many oferament issue, us cannot imagine him in the situation room. are terrified by the image. that is what is giving people cause. think that is't

what the electorate is up to. the president has approval rates of between 52% and 58%. the problem is the democratic candidate is personally unpopular. i don't think there is a huge clamoring for change. there is a distrust for her and that is different. dan: a of her and high wrong track numbers -- a distrust of her and high wrong track numbers. jim: there h -- jonathan: there have been high wrong track numbers. those don't correlate to anything. they don't correlate to a desire to change parties. that number is not relevant. personal popularity, job approval rating, this electorate is open to a change. clearly or else donald trump would not be where he is. athan: because hillary is

personally distrusted. charlie: i think there is a significant portion of the working class of america, men and women working and without college educations, hard-working who fight the wars and pay the taxes. there is a dissatisfaction with washington. opnathan: the non-white working class is heavily supportive of the democratic nominee. you are talking about the white working class, a republican constituency for a long time. charlie: frank luntz found out in the polling he did, when the meters suggested this to him, people are less concerned about donald trump's taxes than

hillary clinton's e-mails. are we expecting anything to thatn, julian assange, might have an impact on the election? is there buzz or talk or any reason to believe? something coming along in october? what theyeptical, came up with in the last couple of days did not while. if there is anything that provides more shock value, i'm dubious. i think the tax issue is a major problem over time. she has not had a debate where she could say, now we have a window into your tax returns. now she could take that point. republican, democrat, working-class, the notion that someone who has gotten away with making massive amounts of money and not paying any taxes, that seems offensive to some. deeply off. that is going to be a problem for trump over time. of you to want both

come in. on that point, the argument is americans,ngers most less than whether he paid taxes xr legally used ta escapes, is the way he treated people for them. he would not pay them. with people who said they were not paid for their labor. you hear so many of these stories. a family business that supplied piano's casinos. you hear so many of those stories. the other thing that bothers people, losing $1 billion. that doesn't seem like a good idea either. the e-mails, private conversations among democrats in washington, i can tell you they are worried. charlie, it is a fact more has been hacked and has been leaked

-- then has been released. that is a risk. aarlie: i think there is general sense of despair about washington. everywhere you go, people talk about the impact of gridlock. whoever gets the blame, that establishment in washington. that is an element of the desire for change and it is a change election. we may not have candidates that satisfy the criteria but there is a demand. opinion turned skeptical of institutions around watergate and vietnam. that has been largely true, with the exception of a few times when people rally around the flag. that is a basic landscape. i don't see characteristics that people want a change in parties or administrations. hillary clinton has perception problems. when the news media focuses on scandals, real or imagined,

around her, that was the time in the election when she plummeted and drew close to a tie. happenshing like that between now and the election, the election could get tight. different causes in mind for what is the source of her vulnerability. charlie: what he thinks he has to do? to avoid she has providing material that could be grist for the news media. if the stories come up, she has a deal with it in the quickest, most open and transparent way to avoid giving them an excuse for more scandal coverage, which is what some curb briefly a couple hereeks ago -- what sunk briefly a couple weeks ago. charlie: we will be right back. ♪

is here.jim lentz here. he is the ceo of toyota north america. the auto industry has undergone shifts in recent years. they are changing the role of cars in our everyday lives. toyota announced a new partnership with uber to collaborate on mobility services. lintzpleased to have jim at the table.

where is the automobile industry today? when we look at what we think of as the industry, we understand up technology is delivering driverless cars. we know of the demands for energy efficiency. the global differences and global markets. producing larger and larger middle classes, all of that. jim: is adjusting. i have been doing this for 34 years. the business used to be relatively easy. you would try to forecast, what is the market going to be? how big is the market? how many are going to be cars and trucks? that has changed. you still need to do all that. now you need to throw in fuel price. what kind of engines should we be building? engines,internal gas hybrids. all of that. beyond that, it is what happens with safety.

that is the traditional way of looking at our business. today, you have to look at micro mobility. how do we help people get from their home to public transportation to their office and back? what happens with personal mobility? we believe mobility is important for all. people with disabilities, how can we use the technology we are developing for autonomy? put it into motorized wheelchairs? totop of that, you've got think about how people consume transportation in the future. whether ridesharing or car sharing. how do people consume transportation? do companies have to say to themselves, we are looking at a future in which there will be a declining number of people in terms of percentages who will own their own car?

jim: difficult to say. i may be an outlier and this. if you look at why ridesharing -- it is the predominant sharing in the u.s. compared to car sharing in europe -- it really developed out ofgen y. they created the sharing economy. the question becomes, what happens as their lifestages change? as they began to have families? they are not moving into the our parentsway might have. what happens to their driving needs? they are the ones who have driven this sharing environment. we are seeing now, last year, almost 30% of industry sales were to the millennials. we think it will be 40% by next year. what impact does that have on

this sharing environment? gen z, 17 and areger, 95% of getting -- getting a drivers license in the first two been years. 95% are getting a license by 16. if you ask them, will you own a car, 90% say they will own a car by age 19. becomes, is this generational or is this something that is in its infancy and going to peak? so far they are not driving flying carpets. there is still a business for cars. car sharing is done, the more miles will be on the cars and the shorter the turn

cycle will be. there is a good business for a manufacturer but he have to understand it. charlie: the question is, what kind of cars? when you have looked at that, what your data says, what kind of hybrid or whatever kind of fuel are we going to be using? for all cars, it is interesting. if you look at hybrids, plug in hybrids, fuel cells and electric vehicles, it is about 2.5% of the industry. 2.5%. it was almost 4%. charlie: 97% is fossil fuel driven. jim: there are about 70 nameplates chasing 2.5% of the market. the passenger car side, 50 passenger cars. prius is the biggest player, we

sell 11,000 month. the rest of them average about 450 a month. if you look at the truck side, sell 125 arest month. re electric, 0.5% of the industry. the question is, how much will that grow? will regulation lead consumers in that direction? charlie: what would catalyze it? what would dramatically increase the velocity? jim: fuel price. directs a correlation. a pencil andll get calculate, what is the cost of paying for this additional technology? charlie: if they can't figure it out --

down. fuel prices are way does this affect, this is the big question that often is asked. are you putting enough research fuel?reating alternative jim: we are. if you look at hybrids, of which we are 70% of the market -- prius is 70% of the market. 8 million ofly them globally. we have a good understanding of the market area we started the research on that product in 1992. researching hybrids and fuel cells. our view will the world was we peak oil around 2025. hybrids would you to squeeze oil for certain time.

the next move was going to be hydrogen. we were fairly accurate on what was happening with hybrids. the challenges, technology has allowed us to find a lot more oil. we have a lot more in the ground. fracking, deepwater drilling. it has enabled us to drill and find more fuel. when doesisis,? -- crisis come? jim: it has been pushed back. if challenge becomes, gasoline stays low, two dollars, it is going to be difficult for us to convince customers to buy this alternative future. today, the at ev's biggest seller in the mainstream

market has about $18,000 of incentives. they sell at a discount to their desk counterparts. that is a challenge. just straight ev's. ev?lie: what is a straight a ev rav-4. feel the next generation is a better battery, and that is hydrogen. we are selling fuel cells in california. ev, andally is an electric vehicle that produces electricity when you step on the accelerator. our hydrogen vehicle goes little over 300 miles. it were fuels in 3-5 minutes. charge pehave large

riods in the range anxiety. the challenges, we have to build that infrastructure. california probably has done the most in that regard. they have funding for about $200 million in grants. there are about 21 stations today. there will be 30 by the end of this year. i will be about 50 by next year. 10,000 fuel cells, you need about 70 stations in the right location. people saying, this is a problem not just in terms of the availability of fossil fuels, it is also the climate and climate change. one of the principal polluters is cars. we are part of the problem. that is why we had the foresight to develop hybrids.

plug in hybrids that will get gallon. miles per the real solution long-term is hydrogen. there is a lot of hydrogen available. today, it is basically created from natural gas. in time, we will create green hydrogen. the hydrogen that goes in will be carbon free. the exhaust is water vapor. to all, that is the holy grail. to us, that is the holy grail. charlie: you assemble them mostly in the u.s.? cells are coming out of japan because the volume is so small. charlie: in terms of the market in china, the emerging middle same, or their tastes the or does it differ because of cultural differences and

economic circumstances? it is very interesting and china. is the largest market in the world for cars. primarily, the top one or 2%. not even making the way to the middle class, especially for the type of quality cars we produce, that the big three produce or even the suppliers in china produced. it is interesting, their tastes are changing. almost the same as american taste. passenger cars are felling out of vogue. they want suvs. not pickup trucks. small suvs are very popular. very much like america. charlie: how do you explain that? difficult. they like to emulate many things that happen in america. was a story about

the wealthiest man in china. he wants to dominate the movie business globally. they now have the number one market in the world. if you are the number one market for anything, you are going to have a powerful incentive to be dominant. is an interesting industry to read very much like the u.s. industry was at the turn of the early 1900s. there are probably 200 manufacturers of vehicles in china. there will be massive consolidation at some point in time. they will end up with a very strong domestically produced car industry that will be big competition for all of us on a global basis. charlie: how soon will that be? it will be a while. you see some vehicles in south america, eastern europe, europe. nothing yet in the u.s.. we are a tough nut to crack over

here. stringent regulations on safety and omissions. emissions. charlie: doing have the toughest standards? jim: scandinavia is going all electric, but in terms of diesel, ours are tougher. in terms of gas, europe and maybe a little stronger. in total, we have tough emis sions. if you are a car dealer, how do you make money? for example, it is not the markup on the car, i don't think. jim: is not. you make money by taking great care of customers. it is all about customer loyalty. it is about taking great care of your customer so they come back and buy cars from you again. your family does. trade-ins.

you come back for service on the car. it is about creating loyalty with customers. charlie: where our sports cars? jim: they are falling down a hair. convertibles, less than 1% of the market. sports cars, by themselves, they tend to be extremely hot the first two years in the marketplace. they have a rapid decay for their lifecycle. it is a tough as miss to be in. charlie: pickups in america, big item. the ford f1 50, the number one? is it big in other markets? canada as well. is a north american phenomena. they are extremely strong. i think it is image. i think automobiles represent freedom for a lot of people.

especially as you go and the -- into the west, it is kind of like having a horse. very much in the mountains and the west. jim: toyota, and i don't have this, but you have had problems in terms that went to the heart of toyota's image. what have you learned about brand, protecting brand, rebuilding brand? making sure you recapture? it was a difficult lesson. make surey things, you listen to customers. not just hear their voice but listen to what they are telling you. number two, the transparent. information within the company. information outside the company

to regulators and everyone else number three, be quick about it. that was a tough lesson for us. i can tell you today, as a result of that, we are matched -- a much stronger company. we are stronger, we are stronger -- closer to the dealer body. they lived through this as much as we did. i think our loyalty to our customers is stronger today. american anduy for advantage general motors, or does toyota seem like an international company? if they provide a better car -- buyer'sdepends on the mindset. 71% of what we sell in north america is manufactured in north america. it depends.

predisposedat are to purchase imports will purchase an import, regardless of where it is due. those that are predisposed to only purchase to mystics, in their mindset, domestics mean domestic nameplates. can influence is a relatively small group in the middle. consolidatedhave plano, texas. ploin jim: we aren't temporary facilities with about 1000 people. we will start moving of spring, next year. charlie: what is the biggest challenge for you? jim: what keeps me up at night is forecasting the price of

fuel. it is difficult. we have to make decisions three years out on capacities. if gas is two dollars a gallon, people are going to buy certain vehicles. if it is four dollars a gallon, they are going to buy others. a lot of vehicles are least today. they have to forecast out, probably seven years, with the price is going to be. 2016.e: how many cars will you manufacture for the year 2016? jim: in north america, roughly 2 million. about 2.5 million. about 500,000 will come from japan or other areas. we are predominantly a north american company these days. charlie: let me talk about technology. more and more technology is pouring into cars. we are talking about economist

driving. give me a sense of the landscape over that. of deaths on the highway are caused by distraction. jim: i think it is pretty close to that. autonomous driving is the whole holy grail. the goal is to develop cars such they cannot be involved in an accident. we feel it is going to evolve. the first step is what we call guardian angel. you are still driving your car. you have control. hans on the steering wheel. just as you normally would, but there are sensors on the car, radar, cameras, other types of sensors. are aboutnse if you to make a mistake. you are going to pull in front of another car. you are going to pull off the road. the car will take corrective

action and not allow you to get into that accident. time, probably post 2025, we will have full economy in cars. -- autonomy in cars. be 2050 before all the cars have that technology. in time, you will have cars not involved in accidents. you won't have to be driving them. we are firm believers that people still have joy of driving. we will develop cars that first and foremost our guardian angel. customers will choose what they will be able to do. i think guardian angel will be available by about 2020. it is right around the corner. charlie: how are you using artificial intelligence? autonomous driving is going to

need a lot of data. milesid to me, a trillion before you can fully make sure and be confident. you have to put through a trillion mile test and that is a long time. that is where artificial intelligence comes in. we can simulate with the car has to react to. to try to get to one trillion miles will be impossible. without artificial intelligence, we do not believe full economy will be obtained. we are investing through toyota research, about $1 billion just to develop the artificial intelligence. the best part of that, what we have learned from that, we will be able to take into the home. we will be able to create robots. we will be able to create, we were developing a device called the blade that actually uses gps indoors.

we will be able to map a shopping mall. as someone that is blind will have this around them and have cameras and microphones. it will tell them where stores of theed on the logos store. where elevators are. restrooms. that to us is true mobility. charlie: is also a new definition of what you do as a company. mobility. you are becoming something other than a car company. i think we have to. i think that is important. the generational ships and changes we are going to have, being led in japan because they have a population that is much older than the rest. boomers age, that will be critical. we have that freedom of mobility, whether through an autonomous car, devices that can help us be mobile in our homes.

assisted robots. all that is going to be critical for us to maintain our freedom. ♪

♪ john: we are just three days away from the second mega important presidential debate between hillary clinton and donald trump, but right now the nation's focus is on a massive storm barreling to the florida coast. hurricane matthew is expected to reach category 4 level tonight and has already killed more than 100 people in the caribbean, leaving florida gov. rick scott to issue a direct and dire warning. >> if you are reluctant to evacuate, think of all the people that the storm has already killed. you and your family could be among thes