♪ carol: welcome to "bloomberg businessweek." i am carol massar. david: and i am david gura. we are coming to you from the bloomberg headquarters in new york. carol: genetically modified mosquitoes on kamikaze missions to eliminate their own species and the zika virus along the way. some in the florida keys say, not so fast. david: and how patagonia, the clothing company, plans to fight climate change with beer. carol: we also take a look at if google is the new apple, taking a look at the company's first real threat against the iphone. david: all that ahead on "bloomberg businessweek." ♪ carol: we are here with the editor-in-chief ellen pollock, and i want to take a look at

your focus on section, and it is all about design. you take a look at zambia's diva centers. what are they? ellen: they are small store like places that were set up by an ngo with the help of idea.org. and they are meant to bring young women in and explain to them about birth control. turns out so many young people in zambia get pregnant. they do not have enough information about birth control. the way they are reaching them is by doing things like padding and putting on nail polish and a way of making it an easier conversation. they are doing it in urban areas and finding it is really working. david: 30% of women under the age of 18 get pregnant, and that is astonishing. how did they come up with this idea to do it this way? aey could have gone just on

campaign of information. why did they do it this way? ellen: they realized what they were doing when they said we want to talk about reproductive planning, they did not want to talk about that. but when they did it this way, they were very responsive. and maria stokes international, the ngo, has a lot to do with idea.org. carol: they had personalities and with different forms of contraception, very clever. ellen: they put personalities to the characters with, are you a risk taker, are you consistent, and they helped matchup girls with the right kind of birth control or young women, i should say. david: in the market and finance section, you look at deutsche bank. the last few weeks have been grim for that bank. there is rumor of a settlement of about a $14 billion. it is a bank that is not in great shape right now. ellen: it is really having problems. $14 billion is a lot of money, no matter how you look at it. and it has other problems creeping up on it. there are investigations in the

uk and u.s. about whether deutsche bank helped clients move assets or money laundered for clients in russia in violation of sanctions. the money laundering rules. so they have looming problems. they don't have some of the resources of banks that have a sort of bigger wealth management component, etc. it has created a problem for the german government where angela merkel has made it a big point that they do not do bailouts. the question is, how were they going to come back? a lot of bankers are being very supportive of deutsche bank. it is murky, the future is murky, and they will be facing problems. carol: european banks are lagging behind what has gone through the u.s. financial system, some restructuring. getting rid of assets. they are a little bit of behind. ellen: they are a little bit behind. they do not have the retail banking to kind of bolster them. obviously interest rates are really low. that is a problem for them as well. and it is just a continuing

problem. david: and then john cryan, british-born but speaks german, he has been trying to turn this company around. difficulty having doing it. has.: he really the other bankers have been supportive, he has only been in that job for about a year, and he is confident that they will be ok and has been saying that this, the plummet in the stock prices because of speculators has been a lightning rod because they were saying, the at government officials were saying that the bank was too speculative anyway. so he has his hands full. carol: i feel like the story will be around a little while longer. let's talk about global economics. in that section this week, you look at what is going on with wind farms. there is a real resurgence in the united states. ellen: windfarms -- wind is the fastest-growing source of alternative energy in the united states, and that has turned out to be a big boon for rural areas, especially with areas that are down on the luck because farmers in some of these

areas are having such a hard time because corn prices have dropped. they are having trouble making a go of it. and what they are finding is they can lease their land to windfarms, and it is changing lives. we talked to a number of farmers for whom this is allowing them to hold on to the family farm for another generation. it means they don't have to sell off their land. it has allowed a few to actually retire. it has been a big economic boom to these communities. david: i was going to ask you about the cover story this week, the fight against zika continues. you profile it in an innovative way, and how people are doing it. companye look at a and basically this kills off mosquitoes after a generation and generations of

mosquitoes are extremely short. and they do it without irradiating the mosquito. it is a process that involved genetics and a little bit of antibiotics. they have met big resistance in key west and areas near key west as they try to test it out. it has been used in other countries and elsewhere, and it looks like it may be successful, but in key west and, as i said nearby, there has been a huge amount of resistance. they are saying, you do not know what will happen. you don't know what the side effects are. so they've been sort of stymied. carol: i spoke to a reporter about what was going on. >> this is a mosquito that if you have ever been worried about malaria or zika or dengue, it is what it is called. it is famous for going anywhere and everywhere that pesticides can't seem able to reach, and that is why it is so dangerous, and that is why the diseases it carries keep spreading. carol: we are all kind of on alert thanks to zika.

you write about sterilizing insect populations. is new,not an idea that before.een done >> scientists have been trying to find ways to wipe this out. obviously there are pesticides. ddt did not quite work, but they still use spray. they wanted to do something more sophisticated, they wanted to sterilize the insect. and so for years, they tried radiation, but the problem with radiation is it is a blunt instrument, and it winds up weakening the mosquito so much that it does not even try to breed so it cannot compete with regular mosquitoes out there. carol: there is a new method. and that is what you go into depth talking about. oxitec? >> that is right. it is a biotechnology company out of the uk. they were recently acquired by intrexon, which is run by the billionaire investor r.j. kirk. this company specializes in crazy science projects like the apple that never gets brown.

you know, genetic modified stuff. oxitec has been working on the modified mosquito that has kids, but those kids never get past the larva stage. they are strong enough to breed, but when they do breed, the new mosquitoes never mature, they never become adults, they never fly around, they never bite anybody. carol: sounds like a smart idea. it sounds like the male mosquitoes do the heavy lifting. >> the females are the ones that bite. the males are the ones that seek out the females. the idea was what if we only genetically-engineered the males with a super powerful gene that made their kids not able to grow up and then send them out to go out and do our work for us and find females that are hard to find, mate with them, and then those, you know, the fruit of their loins no longer becomes an issue for us? carol: it sounds like it should work, but there are small areas of the world were this has been tested. does it work? >> long before zika was known to be such a horrible thing, dengue

was the real target in tropical climates and difficult areas. oxitec was testing this in brazil and malaysia and panama. and in grand cayman. carol: which is where you went. >> that's right. bloomberg businessweek, i hung out in grand cayman, root around in a van as they tested genetically modified mosquitoes mostly outside the van, but some stayed inside the van. carol: how did that go? >> at first i was worried that we were going to get eaten alive by mosquitoes inside the van. i was reminded that these were males that do not bite. it was just a mess inside the van. it was interesting because the locals know about it. and they would glance over and say. oh yeah, here come the mosquitoes. they did not bat an eye. carol: you mention all these places where they are testing it. what about the united states? >> well, nothing is happening here. for years because of the dengue outbreaks in the florida keys, to be inas been trying

the keys. they proposed it as recently as 2011, but the locals in the keys have been fighting it tooth and nail. when it comes to genetically modified mosquitoes in america is that the cutting edge of science is going head-to-head with the gmo protest movement. there have been protests against oxitec in great britain and the cayman and other places. this is where the media and activism really winds up giving more of a voice, so they have been successfully fending off oxitech for years. carol: the concern is we do not know the long-term effects of genetically-modified organisms, so that is some of the worry. >> right. you have got unintended consequences here. the picture we just painted of this amazing science project that could get rid of mosquitoes, it sounds wonderful,

but what if someone told you it is coming to your neighborhood and that nobody had ever taken a look at what happens neighborhoods after this treatment, three years later? four years later, five years later? we know that in the history of all things, there are unintended consequences. there was a time that we thought radiation did not have much of an effect, and then years later, we see people having health effects. david: turning from zika to cover, we turn to our creative director. >> yeah, so we are learning about how to make a zika cover you have not seen before. the obvious thing is to show mosquitoes, but we do not necessarily want to be alarmist because zika has been around for a while. it has been a concern for a while. this is specifically about the new potential combatant for it. carol: have to do with sterilization. >> they sterilize genetically modify males and they release them so that they mate with females and then basically their offspring dies. it is pretty morbid. david: let's talk about the line you have to tow here. zika virus is a serious thing. you don't want to scare people. >> like i said, the story is not

necessarily about the victim. you know, it is specifically about this lab oxitec which has developed the sort of genetically-modified mosquitoes, and some of the concerns that is raising, some of the communities specifically in the florida keys where it is being tested. when we honed in on that, we can sort of separate from sort of all the bad stuff that has been happening. carol: you do it like a dating kind of thing. >> i mean, when i first read the story, it is kind of shocking. like you know, it is obviously a good thing to get rid of zika and miami being safe, but it is also a bit shocking about how harsh this seems. it is kind of like in the insect world, kind of like the worst thing ever. so i basically created a dating profile for the genetically modified mosquito. carol: not like swipe left, swipe right. >> it is loosely referencing dating apps. yeah, it is sort of like a, gets a reference from a lot of different sources.

david: up next, what revelations about parts of donald trump's tax returns may tell us about the state of tax policy, overall. carol: who gets a fair shake and who does not. ♪

♪ david: welcome back to "bloomberg businessweek." this week's opening remarks focus on the broader implications of what we are learning about donald trump's tax records. carol: i spoke to reporter jesse drucker. >> donald trump is not the first presidential candidate who has resisted releasing his tax returns. he is the first one in many decades who has not released any returns at all.

you know, mitt romney resisted for a while and eventually released two years of returns. there were a lot of calls to release things not leading up to the presidency, the years when he would have had incentives to clean up his returns, but trump is the first one in 46 -- one since ford who does not released a single tax return. carol: right, really fought back, although a piece of it came out courtesy of the new york times. >> right, so we have gotten glimpses of pieces and if this point it is five years of returns we have gotten glimpses of. a couple of years in the 1970's and a couple of years in the 1990's. we have not seen those returns, but what the washington post and politico have reported as a result of information he provided in his tax returns to casino regulators in new jersey. carol: because he had to. >> because he had to, and that information has become public. what is interesting about those releases is that they essentially show us the same thing in the most recent one, which is no taxable income and therefore no income taxes. carol: we are talking about he

is saying he lost money like almost $1 billion. how do you do that? >> so, it is pretty simple. i will give you the simplest example, it was not quite that simple probably, but imagine he borrowed $900 million to fund his casino and real estate empire. the money was not coming in to serve as the payments on those loans, and he defaulted on the loans or he worked out something with the lenders so he would not repay the $900 million. carol: so are these personal taxes, corporate taxes? >> it is a little complicated. donald trump and the corporate entities donald trump runs were in some ways synonymous because they were largely structured as partnerships that were entirely or nearly entirely owned by donald trump. so the way to think of it it is that the trump corporate entity, its results for the most part flow onto donald trump's personal tax returns. carol: interesting.

i mean, what he did, and i guess this is what we are trying to understand, is not illegal. >> right. here is the punchline or the most interesting thing about this. so let's take with the new york times reported and kind of unpack a little bit. basically they said he reported a loss of a little over $900 million in theory because of the way the tax rules work, he is able to take deductions equal to $900 million. he is able to take that $900 million and deduct it over 18 years or up to 18 years. so if he earned $900 million over the course of 18 years, he can be able to completely wipe out his income tax liability by taking a deduction equal to the amount that he earned. in other words, the loss that he generated was equal to the amount he made. if you think about it for a second, you can say, that is not objectionable.

i lost a ton of money, i should be able to take that as a deduction and cancel out my tax liability. the difference with donald trump is that he almost certainly for the most part was not losing his money, he was losing other people's money. and so, the benefit that he, in all likelihood, was able to take advantage of, and i have to hedge this because we have not seen the entire return is that he was basically able to lose other people's money, but then he could take the deduction. carol: how does that happen, or is that illegal if that indeed happened? >> no, no, that is legal for a couple of reasons. this gets unbelievably complicated, but to keep it -- carol: tax law, complicated? >> i know. hard to believe, right? if you are normally, if you stop paying a loan -- let me back up for a second. if a bank loans you $1 million

or gives you a mortgage to buy a house, you don't owe taxes on the receipt of that money. but that is a loan, you are repaying. if something happens and they forgive the loan, normally you owe taxes on what they have given you up to that point. because it is income. it is no different than your employer giving you money. considered aer t thebecause you have kep money. normally that gives rise to what is called cancellation of debt income. there are some exceptions to that. one exception is if you are insolvent, and another example is in 1993, congress gave a benefit to the then struggling commercial real estate industry, which is to say if the loan that went bad was a real estate loan, then you would not have to count that as income. so in all likelihood, he was taking advantage of this. carol: what i love about your story is that you realize whether it is donald trump or mitt romney that there are loopholes or tax strategies that

there is a small part of our income strata, if you will, that can take advantage of it while most americans cannot. >> that is the most interesting thing we saw, both in 2012 and with donald trump's partial return here, which is both show examples of how people at the very top of the strata have available to them things that are either straightforward tax code provisions like the one that donald trump probably took advantage of, or in the case of romney, more complicated trusts that they can use to avoid income taxes, gift and estate taxes, strategies and code provisions not available to most americans. david: up next, could patagonia save the world? how the company's three-year-old food start up went to tackle climate change. ♪

♪ carol: welcome back to "bloomberg businessweek." i am carol massar. david: i am david gura. you can also listen to us on the radio on sirius xm. am 1200 in boston. a.m. 960 in the bay area. in the features section, patagonia's plans to combat climate change. carol: it is all about a shift from outdoor clothing to food. weiners.o brad you write about patagonia and they are getting into the food business with patagonia provisions. what exactly are they doing? >> at first blush it looks like they are doing some sort of a trail food. they did a smoked salmon and a foil, prune and nut bars, certain things you would take on a trip when you are wearing your patagonia. as they explained to me, it is about shelfstable goods entering the markets with stuff that is not perishable. they have done some real due diligence on the sourcing to

make sure it is environmentally sound. carol: this is a company that is known for their goods, but they are also known for their concerns about the environment. it is part of their mission and they are bringing that into what they are doing in the food area. brad: they are taking what they have learned from organic cotton and sourcing you know sort of torture free goose down and even taking petroleum-based rubber out of dry suits and wetsuits. for surfing. taking that knowledge, going deep into your supply chain and taking it to food. seeing if they can scale that now. carol: you spent some time with the people involved in this, including the founder and the person who is driving patagonia provisions. what did you kind of get from them about their approach and how they are going about this? >> for the founder, this is a legacy play. you know, he probably wrote his

legacy on some granite laws and waves in the past. he is a celebrated outdoorsman. but he thinks that food can make the bigger difference. he wanted his company to be an example of how you can improve the environmental welfare, but you know, stewardship, but there is a limit. especially with synthetic fibers, like those parkas are made of. there is a limit to the footprint, there is going to be one always. but with food, they are finding with his practice that you can challenge regenerative agriculture, that you could actually grow some food that is good to eat but also restores the soil. carol: that is what i like about your story. you talk about patagonia and i was really kind of intrigued. i have done some things with chipotle who are very concerned about the impact that production has, this regenerative agriculture. they are very involved with this.

>> they want to be. the question i think that is raised is whether or not it can scale. carol: right. >> what they are interested in doing is seeding these projects that might bring a new wheat into our supermarket. adding diversity. the big idea is to try to do agriculture more the way nature does it, and in a way, when you hear that, a person that patagonia, ay company that celebrates being in the wild, you want to do that. you did great with down parkas, stick with that, but when you want to take pressure off of wild places, you have to intensify agriculture. carol: up next, china gets a new tech billionaire. and it already won a big war with uber. david: google wants in on amazon's territory. we will have the company's answer, echo. ♪

♪ david: welcome to "bloomberg businessweek." i'm david gura. carol: and i'm carol massar. the google phone that they hope will be an iphone killer. david: and problems with the prius in the u.s. carol: an exclusive interview with the chinese tech billionaire that won a 1.5 year battle with uber. david: that is ahead on "bloomberg businessweek." ♪ david: we are here with the editor-in-chief. ellen pollack. so many must-reads in this

issue. let's talk about the global economic sector. a lot of people were in mexico talking about the donald trump candidacy. here, all of the interest in donald trump is making it easier for the mexicans and that u.s. to send more money back? ellen: right, and that means value of the peso has dropped against the dollar. you can buy more with u.s. dollars sent to mexico. what is happening is that is good for immigrants sending money home. it has allowed people in mexico to take care of their needs better, to take care of their houses better. it is sort of a weird byproduct of the trump candidacy. he is helping the folks in mexico. not just the folks in mexico, but illegal immigrants. i talked to one who is able to send, you know, get more money to his family because of it. maybe people don't realize it is because of trump, but they are aware and are taking advantage of the conversion rates.

carol: we love watching the peso effect, the mexican economy is not great, so this is helping them out. ellen: it is and i'm sure that is not what he intended. carol: you look at what seattle is looking to do, safe places for heroin addiction. ellen: it has been tried in canada, and elsewhere -- but not in the u.s. the idea is to avoid overdoses and prevent deaths. that are considering setting up centers allowing addicts to shoot up in a supervised way. it is not meant to encourage drug use, but if there is an overdose, people will be helped as opposed to being left to die. and law enforcement is on board with the idea. david: that's talk about the controversial nature of this. the mayor of seattle is saying "if we can help people, why wouldn't we help people." it is not without controversy. ellen: it is very controversial, federal drug laws are pretty strict. many states are saying marijuana

is legal, but it is no a -- still a violation of federal law. there is a question on if the feds will crack down on it. david: is it a problem in seattle? ellen: it is a big problem everywhere. really. david: the founder of didi, tell us about him and the company he founded. ellen: didi means "hong kong taxi," it's a a competitor to uber. they played hard with their homegrown competitors and uber. uber in china through in the towel. they invested in didi and sold their operations to them. didi is one of the few companies that has been able to mount a successful fight against uber. carol: almost shocking. this is a gentleman that does not do many interviews. you call the founder of didi the uber-tamer?

brad: right, so he is the one entrepreneur who beat back uber. the story is remarkable. uber is six years old. didi is four years old. the story starts in alibaba where cheng wei is a mid-level sales manager. he is working for a sales manager. they are, along with other executives, brainstorming startup ideas. early 2012, they see the activities of a british ride hailing company called halo. it was working with a licensed taxicab in london, the black cabs to create an uber-like experience. cheng wei wonders, why can't we do this in china?

alibaba, his boss invests $100,000 in this company. to their horror they realize there are 30 other companies in china that has done this too. no one just clones companies in china, it is a mass migration of entrepreneurs into an idea. they start in 2012 in beijing. it is called hong kong taxi. they basically try to uberize the yellow stripe taxis in china. carol: do they have any advantage? theres you said, i mean though, itcompanies was a crowded space. do they have advantages over their competitors? brad: they did. they were taking the halo approach to work with licensed taxis. many took an uber approach

trying to work with licensed chauffeurs of town cars or limos. there were not enough of those cars in beijing. away, those companies had trouble. some had more early investment from silicon valley venture capitalists trying to replicate uber's success in china. didi took a more licensed approach with yellow cabs. that worked better. they had the mentality of alibaba. they called each other "classmates," as they do at alibaba. they would see competitors get an exclusive contract to talk with cabdrivers at airports. they would work the bus stations. instead of giving away iphones, they targeted young people. they gave apps to young drivers. i would say that early was their advantage. things did not take off until 2013. cheng wei is having problems fundraising.

and basically, to his horror, he realizes alibaba has invested in a competitor. what happens, long story short, they scurry to the alibaba archenemy. maker,, a social network video maker. that is when things take off. alibaba and tencent are archenemy and funneling volume in payment services. when those giants fight each other, that is when they take off. david: google is going after the apple iphone. mark was there when google unveiled its pixel smartphone. carol: they announced new phones. but the strategy with the new phones is different than the past. mark: right. google has done phones before, but it has not been their own. after talking to executives

today, we learned they have a new strategy. they have been proponents of a nexus strategy. they bought the software and worked with them to bring their software to their hardware. they partnered. basically now, google has a new phone called made by google with a pair of new phones starting at $649. they are called the pixel and the pixel xl. they run a new version of android and new functions like google assistant. the strategy is that google worked to develop its own supply chain. they are doing custom work chiprms of the silicon sets inside the phone.

they're looking to the future and how to build more custom work and a successful unit. carol: why is google, who has had a successful model, putting out the android system for hardware makers to work with and come up with devices, why is google in the hardware game? mark: the iphone from apple has been extremely successful why? because of the premium price point and premium features. for google to keep its own software, android, its key services like gmail, google maps, google voice very prominent, they have to come out with their own hardware to promote these features. the time was right given that google is solidifying its services lineup. carol: google is going head-to -head with apple in the smart phone market. i get it. you know,o though, announced another product going head-to-head with amazon with its echo. google is introducing its own of home speaker

market. mark: amazon echo has been surprisingly popular. apple is working on its own amazon echo competitor. google announced google home, a speaker system for the home. today, they gave more details like the pricing etc. it will be a key accessory for the home when it comes out ahead of christmas. but next year is when it will be more powerful. some google executives were talking about the company working on 2 software developments, one for apps and one for hardware around the house. this means developers from companies like uber, twitter, and facebook can create applications for google home to interact with their services via google hardware. the other platform involves other hardware. companies like phillips can make software packages making existing accessories compatible with google home. so i can say, google, turn on the lights, and i will interact through the speaker.

carol: it is interesting to see them going, as i said before, head-to-headng with apple in the phone market, and going after the amazon echo as well. what is it to with its relationship with hardware makers it has worked with for years, samsung or lg? thatit kind of complicate relationship potentially? mark: google explained they're going about this with a careful balance. the android division, the platform at the heart of the company, 1.5 billion devices, players in china, india, around the world, there will be a firewall. like samsung and lg is treated as equals on the android platform, so is this hardware. just like samsung gets treatment from google, so will google's own software division. the key is believing what google says about the firewall, and trusting that there will be a line between google platform company and google hardware

division. carol: why it is not so easy being a prius these days. ♪

carol: welcome back. i'm carol massar. david: and i'm david gura. carol: toyota failed to win over american consumers with the recently redesigned prius. >> the business has changed a lot over the life of the prius. i mean, silicon valley and hollywood stars were driving it. now, that position is taken by tesla. the same way that hybrids were considered to be revolutionary at the time, people think about that as electric vehicles. that has sort of taken over that thing. so what people want to move on to what is new, hot, and cool. that has been to the detriment of the prius. carol: the prius isn't cool? >> not that cool.

they redesigned the prius to sort of make it appeal to a wider design of people. the redesign went from what was admittedly not a good looking car to what is now maybe a little more out there than the typical person may want for this type of vehicle. it is very flashy, sort of angular, you know, sort of look that is not particularly popular with u.s. buyers. carol: people who have owned a prius are not necessarily buying another? >> this is one of the big changes, it used to be that more than half the people who had a prius would buy their next car as a prius. now that has fallen to the lower 40's in that is not a good sign long-term. now, we are dropping down 25% on the value of prius sold in the u.s. carol: when prius came out, you mentioned like 20 years ago, it is hard to imagine.

but you also mentioned they are coming out with a less expensive model. but there are more choices when it comes -- >> a lot more choices. in 2011, there were three all electric or hybrid vehicles. now, there are 33. a big difference. and so, everybody has one. plus, the competition, if you really loved toyotas, it is competition in the brand. the rav4 has its own hybrid version. carol: what does toyota say? that the prius is not as popular as it used to be? >> well they say that part of that is -- it has nothing to do with redesigning the car to make it look somewhat strange to a lot of people, but it has to do with cheap gas. you know the big appeal is it , gets a great mileage. if gas is cheap, people want an suv. carol: the redesign, they sell this in japan. >> it is extremely popular there.

i mean, that is the thing. the prius came back this year to be the best-selling car in japan. now the brand is the 31st , selling car in the u.s. i mean, there is a big difference in the style. i asked a coworker, what do you think of this? they said, i like it. it is like "fast and furious: tokyo drift." and i thought, that might be one of the issues here. bige seems to be a difference between what the younger drivers in japan want versus what the younger drivers sort of technologically oriented drivers here want. carol: it is hard when you have tesla on the other end of the spectrum, beautiful design inside and out. some pushback. i have been a innate prius. prius.ve been in a

it is small. >> it is cozy. so many americans have gotten used to larger cars and suvs with a lot of storage space and room. it is difficult for what started as a subcompact that is now a compact to midsized car on the but still without a lot of room. carol: toyota is not giving up on prius? >> no. it is a big deal for them. if you think hybrids will be the high mileage, low-gas car for a long time, you just have to make it look better. david: up next, and new devices could be used to revolutionize digital payments. carol: chuck e. cheese gets some new cheddar, you know what i mean. -- chuck e.ck cheese is a mouse. that is coming up next. ♪ ♪

♪ david: welcome back to "bloomberg businessweek." i'm david gura. carol: i'm carol massar. you can also listen to us on xm radio, in new york, in boston, and washington, d.c., and in the bay area. david: the focus on the design section, a studio with an idea for creating a physical dimension for online payments. >> ever since people started using credit cards, it is easier to spend money without thinking about it. you do not have to go to the atm and put cash in your wallet. every time you spend money, you could take out your card, spend it, maybe not keep so much track, especially if you are buying things you couldn't really afford. carol: yeah, so you write about an individual that notices with his own daughters. >> a designer with two daughters.

he has two daughters, when he would give them allowances when they were younger, he would give them cash. they would sort of meticulously budget. when they were teenagers, he switched from cash to a debit card. they were constantly going broke. they could not keep track of their money. he started thinking, is this because my girls are older and less responsible, or the way they are spending money. he cited to do an experiment. carol: what was the experiment? >> he came up with a device that is like an elongated token. scrip.s it the it is a demonstration device. it is like a digital wallet that you have to manually load money onto, swipe your finger across it, and think about the money you are spending in the same way that you have to think about handing money to the clerk. carol: it is a fixed amount?

right?scrip, >> yes. and every time you spend money, it says "you just spent $350, here is your new balance." carol: you are right. there has been research that has looked into the disconnection with money, especially with credit cards. >> there has been a lot of research that shows people are less responsible with credit cards, even setting aside the fact you can spend money you don't actually have. just the action of paying with a card rather than cash, you spend more what, into value those purchases less. that abstraction. there is a disconnect. companies that design payments like it when you spend money. i asked about this.

he said, yes, you know, we did not look for a partner. it would probably be hard to find one. we did not find one. could help in places looking to help people budget money, they can offer this to making more mindful. that is one case, but i do not think it will become the replacement for the increasingly carol: taking us to chuck e. cheese. david: here is editor julian goodman. >> you are right. anyone who has kids, you have anyone who has kids, you have probably spent time there. four there are changes. what is going on? >> they are phasing out the famous tokens with chuck e.'s face on them. they are phasing them out and going to a and all-card system. carol: that is a big change. tokens have been part of the fun.

>> exactly. since the late 1970 costs since the company was founded. for chuck e. cheese they are a moneymaker because you give money up front. then you get tokens. whether you spend them or not chuck e. cheese keeps your money. you can still trade them in for credits on your card. so it is for the benefit of the , chain, but more easy for them to keep track of. carol: as a parent, many times i have walked home with tokens, and then i forget to bring them back. >> and if you lose your card you can get the credits returned. so, you know, it is a little bit nicer and smoother and it is making use of better technology. carol: having said that, some people collect tokens. some of them are collectible. because there are variations. >> there have been many designs. they used to be printed with the name of the location they were destined for. there is one mythical set that was printed for a california restaurant that were misprinted and had to be returned to the

cheese mint. a handful were saved from the melting pot. they go for almost $1000. carol: what was your favorite story? david: deutsche bank. looks at the proposed settlement with the doj at $14 billion and the debate in the bank, the debate about the size of it. looking at the condition of the european bank. it is not in great shape. you have john cryan has a five-year plan. still a into it, but lot more to do. how about you? carol: i love the his story of going to beijing and talking to the founder of didi. we got insight to the competition between didi and uber. a lot of the information about kind of the back and forth, the growth of the ride-handling services in the chinese market. how didi beat uber, which is phenomenal. a lot of nuggets in that story.

i really liked it. bloomberg businessweek is available on newsstands. david: and online. carol: more bloomberg television starts now. ♪ . .

emily: i am emily chang and this is the "best of bloomberg technology," where we bring you the top interviews from the week in tech. coming up, why he is disappointed in jack dorsey and all in for a twitter acquisition. plus, first on bloomberg, a sitdown with mark cuban, who holds nothing back on donald trump and google gambles on the smartphone. we will break down