♪ from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: zanny minton beddoes, editor in chief of the economist. she is here. she became editor in chief of the economist last year. she began working at the magazine in 1994 as a correspondent. she is the first female editor in chief since it was founded in 1843. this edition includes a guest essay written by president obama. i am pleased to have you at the table. welcome. zanny: thank you. charlie: first, the u.s. election. how does it look from london? zanny: like a reality tv show.

it certainly is. it worries us. we have the combination of shock at the debasement of politics and a huge concern. charlie: in terms of language? zanny: language, topics, norms being changed. i arrived on sunday night and i watched the debate and i thought i was watching the jerry springer show. you had to pinch yourself to think that this is a debate between two people who are the candidates for the presidency of the united states. charlie: and are suggesting they are prepared to lead the free world. zanny: absolutely. and what worries me is the consequences of this could linger. even if hillary clinton wins, you can see the consequences potentially caught because there will be a faction of the country that thinks their president should be in jail. charlie: that is a conversation taking place. zanny: and the conversation

about hillary clinton and the misogyny of it and -- it is all just really depressing. charlie: you do not see this language in british politics? zanny: you do, but not on this scale. no. and this is the united states and the leader of the free world. charlie: what do they worry about with hillary clinton, her authority will be challenged because of all of this and to the accusations of the campaign and the levels of trust, which leaders need? zanny: exactly right. if you have a large faction of the population thinking that the president is dishonest, that is a problem. and there is a shadow of the racism, the misogyny, all of the awful things said during the campaign, it is hard to put that behind you. particularly when they think that the system is so broken,

that you need donald trump to shake it up the regardless of his downsides. and the anger those people have will make it hard to put this thing behind you. hopefully you can and we will look back and see the this as a terrible aberration. charlie: rather than a transformative event? zanny: one hopes to transforms for the better. charlie: this is an indicator of what is the come. zanny: that would be terrible. charlie: more people in celebrity. zanny: and the phrase that we put on our cover recently, where nobody is talking about policy, facts, no one can agree on the facts. this is a difficult environment to have the conversations you

need. so for those of us outside the u.s., the prospect of many of the proposals that donald trump is talking about are terrifying. charlie: in terms of trade? zanny: in terms of america. charlie: shutting down america? zanny: yes. the nonchalance with which they a fundamentally different views of america in the world. the idea that american leadership, geopolitically, is in his view, a garrison mentality. charlie: he looks at what happened in great britain and he says, you had the brexit vote and nobody thought that leave would triumph and it did and they were part of a movement, and i am leading a movement. it is motivated by the same -- zanny: he is right in that sense. on both sides of the atlantic, a large number of people are angry about the status quo. charlie: globalization has left them behind. zanny: yes and if they think the political system is rigged.

there is an anger that comes partly in large part from a sense of living style, economic insecurity, a desire that immigrants, or the feeling that they have a lot to do with the problem. i think it is serious and we need to separate revulsion against some of the excesses of donald trump, with from the underlying concerns that are animating the supporters. they are real and genuine. charlie: it has to do with economic insecurity. zanny: a sense of cultural insecurity. charlie: the middle class. zanny: and the racial complexion of the u.s. is changing. all of those things are part of it. but there are important areas where we have to respond and i think it is insufficient to say there is nothing we can do for these people. there has to be a huge amount of serious economic change, but the important thing is to have the conversation, but you cannot if

people are hurling insults at each other. charlie: you would hope they would be a real debate about it. and we may have been part of the mistakes made. zanny: it is very hard to have that conversation with -- when you cannot get people to go beyond the insult hurling. or even an agreement on the facts. you are right. and if you look at the political campaign, there has been little discussion of any kind of policies. hillary clinton has many policies that maybe they have not been subjected to scrutiny because the parameters of the debate have been awful, sort of demagoguery and racial misogyny stuff. i think the cost is that you do not have the important discussions that you need. and you have another risk. there is people's real concerns not being addressed. they will just get angrier.

charlie: and their departure from the system could take place. zanny: absolutely. and you mentioned brexit, and in some sense it is a very sobering tale for what can happen. it was a vote of anger, anger against the system. it was not a vote for a particular kind of brexit. charlie: for a particular candidate. zanny: now we're dealing with consequences and suddenly, this is why the pound is tumbling and why great britain seems a less stable place, people, it is dawning on them how difficult it will be if we do have a hard brexit and how it will affect the market. the economic damage could be serious. there is a sense that the government is a less welcoming to foreigners. butphobia is too extreme, it is not a pretty picture.

charlie: how serious do you fear the rise of populism in europe, in countries? zanny: i think it is happening. as you can see, it is happening. the broad theme of what is going on in european politics, the center ground is disappearing and the populist right is becoming the main opposition. and you have a sense of disenchantment with the status quo, it is translating into a grabbing for what seems to be easy populist solutions club put up the barriers my protectionism, anti-immigration sentiment. and the tragedy is, those kinds of policies will make everybody much poorer. and the economic damage could lead us to a dangerous world. we have not been able to have the debate and have a conversation about the what do you do to push back the populace. charlie: so in terms of stories

and editorial opinions, what makes for trade, what is the argument for trade? zanny: we were founded to fight for the cause of free trade. the true believers of that. we put on our cover a couple of weeks ago, talking about this. the basic argument is that trade improves prosperity, it creates a bigger pie. it does not mean that every single person is better off and the challenge we face is how to ensure those people that lose in trade, are assisted so they can get skills -- charlie: the argument -- the resources of -- zanny: commencement of resources. it is the same issue with immigration. it can boost an economy. you have to ensure that there is investment in housing, education, health muscle you have the resources for those people. but in both cases, the pie gets bigger and the economy is better off.

charlie: the president wrote an essay on the economy, what is his argument? zanny: it is interesting. we do not usually run these, but 10 years ago we did have a piece by tony blair. the reason we ran this was because in the context of this extraordinarily, fact free political environment, this was a very serious, thought-provoking attempt to lay out what he thought was the challenges for the american economy and he listed improving productivity, making the economy more resilient, so it was striking in its thoughtfulness. that is more than you would get an economic discussions right now. and it was a very clear pitch for the center, it was pro-trade, pro-globalization and pushing back against the left of his own party and to the nativist right. and it struck me as well

written, but it was a really thoughtful and thought provoking layout of the challenges. and we do not agree with all of it, but we thought it was -- charlie: what part did you not agree with? zanny: there was an underplaying of regulation is a big part of the economy, if you want to improve productivity, you need to do more to deal with that. there wasn't enough entitlement reform. and if there were things, parts where we would've shifted emphasis. charlie: i just did an interview with john boehner and they came that close to a grand bargain. they should have dealt with entitlement reforms, tax reforms, it would've dealt with these issues. they came that close and that close does not matter. zanny: that is the tragedy. and the tragedy is still with us.

charlie: the possibility that washington again, if you look at polls today, you will assume hillary clinton will win, but charlie: the possibility that the election is four weeks from now and anything can change. zanny: that is the most likely outcome right now. charlie: is anything going to change? zanny: it depends on the election. charlie: and whether they control the house or neither. zanny: you can see the donald trump outcome probably unlikely, but there is such revulsion at what is going on with donald trump and republicans, and democrats, the senate and possibly even the house. unlikely. but then you would have hillary clinton with the capacity to push a lot through. in her first few years. charlie: obama had that. you have to remember that. zanny: remember what happened? charlie: dealing with an economic challenge. zanny: and then you have polarization that came after. the most likely outcome is that

she faces a republican congress. and you put that together with the sort of hate filled rhetoric that we have now and you have a grim prospect for domestic policy. it will not be pretty. charlie: let me talk about global economics. we have stalled it seems. zanny: have we ever accelerated? [laughter] charlie: and to the british government before we go. where do you think the global economy is in terms of growth? you look at china and they are declining in their own growth rate and you look at commodity prices around the world, we see it is up to 50, oil. cooperation among the oil-producing states in order to raise the price of oil even higher. but there is a kind of stagnation it seems. zanny: we have had what is now a

relatively long expansion, but it never really got going since the financial crisis. and there was stagnation -- is this the permanent norm? there is speculation about when the fed will raise rates. central banks around the world -- charlie: more of an argument to not do it. zanny: absolutely. so i see little sign leading to the acceleration. i think the risk is on the downside. china is in a difficult transition from investment driven to consumer driven and it has a huge debt load. lookingomy is not great. and europe, both for reasons of populism and brexit, it has a massive debt problem. charlie: and a lot of unemployment. zanny: the emerging economies, many of them have hit bottom. brazil -- charlie: because demand is not what it was. zanny: and they went on a credit binge.

the biggest bright lights is and was the u.s., and here the question is what happens after the election and into 2017? it is not clear that the u.s. will be a driver of sudden acceleration. charlie: what will happen to the pound? zanny: what has happened? it is one of the worst performing currencies this year. it has tumbled, down 18% against the dollar, 6% in the last 10 days. it is primarily because people realize great britain is going for a hard brexit and it would be outside the single market, meaning that we will be poorer. the other thing is think there is uncertainty about the british government and if they have a plan. charlie: what is it about the government that makes it uncertain? zanny: it became clearer last week -- one, they are determined

to go for a hard brexit, theresa may putting it in motion. charlie: if you want out, you are out. zanny: yes and take the consequences. and if there is a large section of people in her government that want to do that. charlie: boris johnson is part of that? zanny: yeah. and the more you look at that, the more the economic costs become clear. and also the realization that they have no plan to do it. to have people that know it will have economic costs, and the third thing, some of the rhetoric emerging from the conference was very anti-foreigner, very interventionist. charlie: interventionist? zanny: we need the state to help. in a way that was not -- i am

all for helping ordinary people, but there was industrial policy and particularly in an anti-foreigner way. she said something like, you consider yourself a citizen of the world, you do not know what the word citizenship means. it was little england mentality and that is a polar opposite of what england could be. we could be singapore on the thames, or we can be little england and try to put up barriers, you need to be english and we do not like foreigners. i think the concern is the government could be more that way. and that scares people. charlie: what will happen in terms of -- with brexit, will you see financial institutions move out of london? zanny: depends how hard it is, but yes, we are increasingly hearing financial institutions that have plans and will

activate them. it depends on the relationship between the european union and britain after we leave. and after june, i hope that good sense would prevail and we have a relationship that would allow access to financial services that will keep britain in the financial market. and the more we hear what they are planning to do, you hear people say that is not what we are going to get, so we have come to learn that doing business in europe, they will be rethinking. and a big companies will invest -- that invested in britain, they will be rethinking. in the end, i am sure that we will not have a relationship where we have hugely high tariffs between britain and europe, but the uncertainty of what it will look like and the worry that it will be a further apart relationship, if you are investing, a big company having

a huge investment in u.k., you would have worry. charlie: indeed. i remember president obama because i was there at the time, i remember him in london saying, if you leave, you will have to get to the back of the line. zanny: the bigger question, the complexity of negotiating new trade agreements is mind-boggling. britain cannot do that until they leave the eu. it then has to reapply for membership of the world trade organization as an individual country, it is now a member as part of the eu. there is a complex of things that need to happen. and right now in this populist, anti-trade environment, the ease with which countries will agree to trade deals is much harder than it was. so it will take years for the

brits to renegotiate trade deals. and in the interim, we are not sure what the rules and regulations will be. eventually, where it is up will depend on a few things. where ins up with the e.u. what the transition is. what kind of a transition arrangement would it be? and the best outcome would be the closest possible relationship ideally inside the single market. and a long transition time for people to adjust, and sensible arrangement would it be? open policies in britain. in my worry is that some of those will have a worse outcome. charlie: let me touch on something. syria? this is a tragedy. it is an international tragedy. zanny: tomorrow's historians will look back and question what on earth we were doing.

charlie: how could the world stand by? zanny: awful. and i am afraid, a big stain on this president's record. charlie: president obama. zanny: absolutely. i long thought that historians will look at his domestic record and rank him as a very successful president. charlie: even though obamacare has problems. zanny: of course, and it will be amended and changed. it is a big step forward. and the stimulus package and the response to the financial crisis. people will look back and say, broadly, the right things were done, it was not perfect, but the right things were done. but the foreign policy, the record is more mixed. asia, that was a sensible one, but the vacuum in the middle east and the perception that the u.s. does not care. and the red line in syria and the ignoring of it in syria,

they have really damaged not just the perception of america, but it is a fundamental and the inability -- it becomes much clearer outside the u.s. how much in america -- how much it matters. pax americana is a huge part of global stability. in the arab world, the absence of the u.s. has made a huge difference. charlie: that could be the difference, if hillary clinton is elected, between the foreign policy views. she is apparently more hawkish. zanny: there is a cool rationalism to the approach from president obama, which is logical and rational. i can see it makes sense from a narrow perspective, it is a very intellectual approach, but i think it underplays the importance to the world that the perception of america is leading. charlie: and the fact he has said, do not do stupid stuff.

because he did not want to do stupid stuff. zanny: and it is completely understandable, but the consequences of that shift has been damaging. charlie: here is the economist magazine. with the president, the article he wrote. and over here, there is a very successful digital company called snapchat. [laughter] charlie: what does snapchat have to do with the economy? zanny: last weekend, you could see the economist on snapchat. we launched last weekend. every weekend, we will provide snaps. why are we doing it? charlie: tell me what it will be. zanny: do you know about snapchat? charlie: i do. but when i think about it, i do not think about the economist. i think of people who want to look at a picture that will disappear.

zanny: there are a number of publications that produce concepts for snapchat, you scroll and get text, but there has not been many publications like the economist. we had a series of snaps on jobs of the future. every weekend, once a week, we will take a topic and look at it and do it at snapchat format and it will be our kind of rigor, but in the format of snapchat. it will be engaging for the snapchat users. charlie: think of for coming. we will be back in a moment. ♪

charlie: sturgill simpson is here, winning over audiences and respect from country legends. his hard edge sound paired with his existential lyrics have many calling him the new face of old country. the late merle haggard said, he is the only one out there. his major label debut is called, "a sailor's guide to earth." here he is performing the single, all around you. ♪

>> ♪ there will be days when the sun won't shine when it seems like the whole world is against you don't be afraid life is unkind you can let go of the pain if you choose to cause time slips away skies fall apart it ain't too hard a universal heart glowing, flowing, all around you ♪

there will be nights that go on forever like you're lost at sea never to be found just know in your heart that we are always together and long after i'm gone i'll still be around our bond is eternal and so is love god is inside you all around you and up above glowing, flowing

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ and time slips away skies fall apart it ain't too hard a universal heart glowing, flowing, all around you

♪ charlie: i am pleased to have sturgill simpson at the table for the first time. it is about time. welcome. sturgill: thank you. a pleasure and an honor. charlie: tell me what this represents. sturgill: a lot of hard work. i found the reward from hard work is you get to do more hard work. charlie: i can tell you that. sturgill: that is the direct outcome of a year and a half plus providing my previous -- promoting my previous record and being away from my wife and a newborn son. it is sort of balancing the fact that my dreams were coming true and it was providing for my family, but at the same time it was bittersweet because things took off all at the same time that my family was forming. charlie: you missed some things because something you had

dreamed of was happening. sturgill: yes. that was a heartfelt apology and thank you to my wife and my son for allowing me to be -- charlie: i love the cover. sturgill: thank you. charlie: how much of that is your creation? sturgill: all of that is my vision. , i worked with the our director and i told him what i wanted and he knew who to go to to capture it. charlie: how would you characterize what you represent? to have merle haggard and others say what they are saying, this is the real deal, thank you very much. sturgill: i do not know if i necessarily am making a focused effort to represent anything. i just know that when i write songs, i have honesty and am

trying to represent the human experience from my perspective, as undiluted as possible. charlie: and what was the dream? sturgill: to make music for a living and go around the world and play music for people. it is a reality now. it is what i do. i did not realize it was my dream. my wife had to point it out to me. i was a hobbyist musician. i guess, until the last four or five years. charlie: you thought you would do it as an advocation. sturgill: it was more like a cathartic release. i have been writing since i was a teenager, but it was not anything i have -- i think i am an ambitious person, but i did not know how to start going about pursuing that. it is an industry where you do sort of know how to get your foot in the door. charlie: and you were not asking? sturgill: no. she stopped me one night and

said, you are pretty good at this and i know that you love it, so why don't you do something with it? charlie: do what you love. that is what they say. sturgill: and i have always worked odd jobs. i guess i had a strong work ethic, so the second i could apply that is something i really loved, everything fell into place. charlie: not everybody can write songs like you do. you did not go to school to get this. other than life. sturgill: school was never my strong point. [laughter] charlie: it was life. sturgill: yes. charlie: and maybe a poet's vision. sturgill: to be honest, i ite poetry more than songs and i figure out how to put them to music when i get into the studio. but the expression of words is really where it starts. charlie: so when they compare you to waylon jennings, you say, i will take that. sturgill: i will take it. it is funny to me. there are probably a few people in my mind, if i was trying to

emulate anybody, that is what comes out. it is a very resident, similar imbre and range of vocals. there are a lot worse things to be told, you kind of sounds like waylon jennings. charlie: a lot worse. and people who hear you sing, they say you have a quality to your voice, early on? sturgill: right. early on, in my early 20's, i was not playing out and doing anything with it. they would all say, we would rather sit at home and listen to you playing, why aren't you doing anything? charlie: it took your wife to convince you to do it. sturgill: and it came at a point in my life when i was working at a job with the railroad and i had grown myself into it and i became a yardmaster come all the -- yardmaster, all the way to

the operations supervisor for the whole facility and when i realized i was not gratified, i was burnt out, with these 80 hour weeks and i was at a point where i thought, this cannot be it. and she saw that, luckily before , i did. and she pushed me. we bought a 12 track recorder to make those recordings at home. charlie: so you take exception to being named the poster boy for traditional country? we have named some traditional country people. sturgill: sure. charlie: it is almost like you like the outlaw. sturgill: i like not having rules. [laughter] charlie: or making them. sturgill: i like to be able to go from one project to the next without somebody saying, you know what you ought to do -- or maybe you should not do that. charlie: you say this is where you fit. sturgill: and all those guys you are compared to, my heroes, those guys were pushing boundaries and, especially

merle, he was a very elastic musician he would go a lot of , different directions and incorporate different styles into the guise of country music. i do not think i am breaking ground. charlie: you describe your sound as having dirt and life sauce. what is that? sturgill: just, you know, the wrinkles and the scars. i like things to have a cohesive deterioration. if that makes sense. i want to make widescreen music, so you can immerse yourself. those of the records i loved anyway. charlie: take us through writing a song for you. you do not just sit down and say , ok. sturgill: guys like jason -- a friend and a hero, he is much more disciplined songwriter and i do not have that gift. charlie: do you wait for inspiration? sturgill: typically, yes. a melody or a line may come to me. i have learned to identify a

certain feeling that usually accompanies the good ones and the good ones come really fast, within 20-30 minutes and you are done. and i can be lazy if i do not feel that feeling, i do not chase it. i have probably lost a lot of songs because of that. but it is one of those things where you cannot get to a piece of paper fast enough, or you kill yourself slipping out of the shower -- charlie: because you have to write it down or lose it. sturgill: exactly. charlie: i once interviewed a long time ago. i said to him, what is it about the music? and he said the sound. , in the end, that is it. sturgill: that is it. for me, it is, one, a great

escape. and two, you are trying to put what most people, myself included, what most people -- they have difficulty putting things into words, so finding the words is one thing, but then an auditory to landscape is the real fun and challenge for me. charlie: and a real demand on your creativity. sturgill: absolutely. and it is the microscope, after you spend 1.5 years on the road playing your previous record, that is where you find out if you are a better musician. what do you now know or here or taken to the situation that you do not have in the toolbox last time. charlie: it is a solitary thing? sturgill: the vision is. yes. but i do enjoy surrounding myself with people who i am and -- in awe of. my band are incredible musicians in their own right. so walking out on stage with them, i find it inspiring. literally.

so in the studio, you have to be open to ideas, listen to everybody's input, then decide on the fly, sort of if it makes chessboards on the lineup. if you hire the right people, i think you do not have to do a lot of supervising. charlie: you self released your first two albums. sturgill: yes, sir. charlie: is that simply because it was the only way to get them released? or you wanted control? sturgill: in the case of the first album, we did shop it around to every label in nashville and even some non-country independent places. charlie: what did those smart people say? sturgill: everybody passed. i think i was ahead of the curve. now, i think i would find a lot of places for it. this is 2012, 2013. charlie: it was three years ago. sturgill: yes, and it has been a very progressive three years in terms of people, you know,

searching hard to find it sounds that maybe they realize they were missing. i did not get a lot of support on the first one. and the second one, i released it because i was ready to put it out. i did that have time to wait for labels to say no. charlie: this was written from the perspective of a sailor. sturgill: somewhat. there is a little bit of marketing behind that. [laughter] sturgill: i found in talking directly to a newborn child, from the standpoint of someone giving me liberty and freedom to say things i never would've felt comfortable enough to get myself into a place of -- charlie: you had to put yourself into the mind of a sailor. sturgill: that vulnerability was the first thing i thought needed to be palpable. so i looked back at when i was a sailor, i was much younger and did not have a family, and i was out there for months on end and looking at nothing and thinking -- charlie: thinking what? sturgill: about the guys around

me that had children, what they would be going through. or you think about the guys over there now, actually in a war zone, writing letters every day. not getting on a tour bus, that does not even compare. but, you know. i just wanted to do something with all of the emotions i was feeling at the time, which was homesickness, even though it was providing for my family, i could not shake this feeling of, this is selfish. you know because i am getting a , lot from doing this. but at the same time, i am missing so much of home. but my wife, again, she has realized if i am home too long, all of a sudden i probably need to go play music. [laughter] charlie: i can imagine. ♪

♪

♪ charlie: what is "oh sarah?" sturgill: that is a song i wrote for my wife. the kid needed one song for his mother on my album. also i have to be honest, i , realize there is nothing more novelty about writing music for your children. but i felt that in itself would be a wonderful challenge, to try to do that in a way that was not

novelty or, you know, not saying it is free of cliche, but trying to find a new way to do that. charlie: and how did they respond? sturgill: the kid? charlie: yeah. and the wife? sturgill: she loves it. she is my harshest critic. charlie: really? how would she criticize? sturgill: she told me to lose, she was in english major, went to tulane, so she is a much better writer. she is my muse and my editor. [laughter] sturgill: i can't tell you too much, or you know -- [laughter] sturgill: all the covers, if i do a cover on my record, it is her recommendation. the nirvana cover was her idea. ♪ >> ♪ he's the one who likes all our pretty songs and he likes to sing along

and he likes to shoot his gun but he don't know what it means he don't know what it means ♪ charlie: let me understand the whole thing. i do not want to mischaracterize it. in terms of mainstream country music, what do you say about it, if anything? sturgill: i am not saying anything about -- i have no need to call out any individuals that make those records. i do not know them and i am sure they are great people. it is what i am saying about it , is, obviously there is a large audience out there for this kind of record i am making, or what a guy like chris stapleton is making, and i have no problem with them selling the wares they have been selling, but there are a lot of people out there that would appreciate the other stuff too. , and the landscape for what is

essentially a dying and antiquated business model, i would think if i was running a label, i would look for ways to sustain my business and look for artists try to do something on a more human -- charlie: which is what you are trying to do? sturgill: i guess so. i'm not trying to write songs to get radio hits. if that is what you mean. charlie: and touring is necessary. sturgill: yes. that is the one constant that will always be there. musicians play music for fans at the shows. charlie: otherwise a connection begins to wither. sturgill: right. i made the comment about, i kind of said what i said and i do not regret it at all but the thing , about tomorrow stuff was really more about an ongoing habit it seems where they co-op the names of the legends after they are dead, but they do not show the much support in the twilight of their career. and you can reference all the

recordings with rick rubin, none of those were recognized by and loretta lynn had an album that was snubbed. wait until she passes. see what happens. it is those little things. maybe i am wrong. and who am i to say anything? question, ir your am not saying anything about mainstream music, as much as i am trying to speak to artists out there in the situation i was in five years ago to let them know there are other avenues. you can pursue these things and maybe come up short and frustrated, or you can do your best work and hit the road and put the work in and you might be surprised. twitter is a real thing. but as i said, you get to this point where i have reached, by myself without help from the industry, if i do not say these things, what does that say about me?

because it is a very real thing that is happening. there is much bigger problems we could talk about in the world but this is the world i work in. , charlie: was the entertainment part, did it come naturally? sturgill: i don't know that i have that down just yet. i get nervous when i go on stage, i do not talk a lot, i try to play the songs and but my -- put my mind into the music. charlie: it gets you going. sturgill: this has been recent. we went from playing to 400 people, to plan for 2000 people in two years. i am 38 years old and i came to this game at a later point in life that a lot of people do, so i feel like the lifetime of less than desirable jobs and being a normal guy. normalized to just

embrace that in a way that, you know -- i guess a 21-year-old kid would love it. but myself and the guys i play with, we are all very extreme perfectionists, so we want to put on the best show musically speaking that we can every night. and i forget may be that there are other parts involved. charlie: are you the first male on your mother's side that did not work in the mines? sturgill: right. a strip mine or deep mine. her father was a foreman on the strip mine for years. and my grandfather, and the great grandfather worked in the mine. my mom's brother worked in the strip mine. charlie: there is a message from your life. i know the word message is not -- the worst thing i could say but i mean it. , there is something. sturgill: this is important to me, because my wife has been a great long succession of lessons my mistakes and bad decisions, and being given this opportunity

now. i do not want to say late in life but i feel like it all late in the life for a musician if it had happened at , 23 years old i would have self-destructed. i would not have used the opportunity. charlie: why do you think that? sturgill: just because i had a lust for life, the candle was burning at both ends. charlie: i hear you on that. but you would of been -- sturgill: you do not have the perspective that you do at 38 , i didn't anyway. some of the guys on my band are 23. charlie: because you lived life. sturgill: i was living life. and a lot of the guys on my band are younger and extremely talented and i do not ever mince words about those things. now is when you should be pouring your all into this.

and in 10 years you do not waste it all in a bunch of empty -- charlie: there is a lesson there. and a lesson to us that are not musicians or gifted with those kinds of talents, to make sure that you drink deeply of life and make sure that you make sure your eyes are open. sturgill: i cannot write the songs i am writing at 23 years old. charlie: that is true. n to the notion you cannot appreciate at 18, "war and peace," because you never experienced those kinds of -- the rage and jealousy and failure. the inspiration. sturgill: still learning. every day is a learning experience. said, like i said, much like today, a long chain of surreal moments. charlie: this day? what happened this day?

sturgill: i am on the charlie rose show. charlie: that is a big deal. sturgill: i asked my publicist, does this mean i do not do any more interviews? charlie: she said no, you need to do more. i am flattered you came here. sturgill: thank you very much. charlie: a sailor's guide to earth. what a great title. whoever chose that, that is the loneliness of the seas and the danger of it. yet, at the same time -- sturgill: i have to give credit of the title from an old navy buddy. charlie: thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪ >> ♪ oh sarah, here we go again i can't get past the pain of what i want to say to you i'm too old now to learn how to let you in so i'll run away just like i always do she said if there's something i should know then tell me now

before i go and give my heart away so i can get on with my life you can go on with your strife wish you'd speak the words those eyes are trying to say sometimes this life feels like a big old dream i'm floating around on a cloud inside when my cloud starts coming apart at the seams oh sarah, that's when i slide ♪ >> ♪ there's going to be times that i gotta go away but don't worry baby i'll come home

out on the road is where i'm going to find my way but i'll always find the time when i'm alone so forgive me if sometimes i seem a little crazy but god damn, sometimes crazy is how i feel and my brain is starting to swirl down the drain of this old world and there's only one thing girl i know is real ♪ ♪ it's the love that i feel in your arms it's the glow you wear around you like a charm it's the tender in your eyes that keeps me safe and warm at night

from this life ♪ ♪ ♪ sometimes this life feels like a big old dream i'm floating around on a cloud inside when my cloud starts coming apart at the seams oh sarah, that's when i slide ♪

♪ [static buzzing] ashlee: this is colossus. ♪ ashlee: it came to life here in inland in bletchley park 1943. the machine raced to decrypt german messages by analyzing thousands of words of coded text every second. ♪ ashlee: with its mix of vacuum tubes, wires, and switches,